Help me understand my daughter

[Caringdad]

My 15 year old daughter is suffering from panic attacks and refusing to go to school. She has missed 4 weeks at the end of last year and at the start of September she should be starting the final year of her GCSE's. She is quite clever and is predicted to get all A's and B's through her own hard work and dedication - I am not a pushy dad and neither is her mum. She has had 3 counselling sessions but only has two more before she is due to go back.

To us she seems to have decided that school is not for her - the end. However we are really worried about how this will affect the rest of her life if she does not get any exams and will always have to 'explain' her CV at any job interview. Also the counsellor is dealing with herself but the meetings only last 45 minutes and we, as parents, then are left to try and deal with the day to day issues as they come up. We have tried our very best to be supportive but we do not seem to be getting any help from our daughter although she says she is doing really well to just go out of the house sometimes. We really don't know how far to push her - the counsellor says it is up to our daughter but if it was she would do nothing.

Also we find the situation controlling all our conversations with her and I don't think this is helping as it is dominating the relationship between us and our daughter - we do have two other daughters.

Our daughter does not really have any interests that could incentivise her to 'face the world' and she seems to be quite content to just stay in and shut herself away from the world.

I have joined this website to try and speak to other people like my daughter for advice as to how we should behave and help her because she is not being very communicative herself.

Hopefully someone will be able to help me find the right way forward to help our daughter who we love very much.

[honeybee3939]

Gosh caring dad, i could have wrote that myself !

My daughter started having panic attacks a year ago when she was 16, like yourself me and my husband where so worried about her she too also missed vital exams at school ( to be honest i think it was the stress of exams at school that caused her the probelms) I did speak to the head of school about this and was told she could sit the exams again but we would have to pay, so dont think just because she may or may not take her exams its the end of it. so it may be worth contacting your daughters school and asking for advice.
For a year now she as been at home,refused to go see the GP, not going any where, lost all her friends and as caused no end of problems with my relationship between myself and my husband because of her negative attitude. Like you i love my daughter to death and would do anything for her but i must admit there have been times when i could throttle her!

The last month though there as been a vast improvement with her, for some reason she as come to her sences and realised that she cant spend her life trapped at home doing nothing. We started doing little trips out with her to build up her confidence to where now she as started going out alone and meeting friends again. The last year as been a nightmare with her and to be honest i just couldnt see a way out for her, but she as got better and im sure your daughter will too, I have to say though i did nag her alot about what was happening to her and i dont think that helped at all.:ohmy:

I dont know if my post as helped but i just wanted you to know you are not alone.

I hope things improve for your daughter soon

Love and hugs to you both
:hugs: :hugs:
Andrea
xxxxx

[kenboon]

I'v just recently started having very bad axiety attacks along with depression, so i can understand what your daughter is going throught to some extent, as will many others on this site. It must be very hard for you too and i really feel for you. All you can do is really try and be there as much as you can which by the sounds of it, you already have been. Maybe also reasure her about the next school year, just let her know that theres no pressure on her.
You definatly have done the right thing by signing up to this site, i really have found it a god send. I'm sure it will help your situation no end if only to know a little more what she is going through.

Ken

[lorac]

Hi

I think it is really nice that you have taken the time to come onto the site and try and find some help for your daughter, you certainly are a caring Dad and I hope you find some answers that you are looking for.

Carol

[ronski]

Hi Caring dad

Your daughter is having panic attacks which for most adults is probably the most frightening thing in their whole lives that they have to deal with. So for a 15 year old it must be truly terrifying. She is probably using avoidance as a means of preventing the panic and especially for not appearing stupid in front of teachers and friends. Unfortunately if avoidance is used for to long it will eventually lead to agoraphobic tendancies. So your daughter probably wants to go to school and live a normal life but probably dosent know how to.

As a parent probably the best advice is to get as much information from experts in the field as to how to approach the problem without further escillation of anxieties and breakdown of relationships within your household. Most people on this site swear by the books written by Dr Claire Weeks which you can purchase from Amazon uk. She gives very sound advice which I am sure you will find helpfull both in understanding the anxiety condition and above all in defeating it and getting back eventually to normality with time.
I hope that this is helpfull. You are very caring parents and I wish you every success and I hope your daughter will get better soon.
Ron

[dianes]

Hi caring dad :welcome: to NMP. I really feel for you and your family, especially your poor daughter who is suffering with panic attacks and no doubt anxiety as they go hand in hand. I would recommend that you read the information down the left hand part of your screen (Main Menu) to do with P.A's, anxiety, agoraphobia and first steps. It will give you an insight into the truly horrible and frightening symptoms that a person goes through when having a P.A. I am 55 yr old mother of two and grandmother to 4 soon to be 5 lovely grandkids and believe me when I tell you the symptoms that you go through with anx/panic/agoraphobia are absolutely terrifying. I didn't have a clue what on earth was happening to me when they started 3yrs ago. I have always been a very strong person, who coped with pressure in my working and home life and who took everything in her stride (I have had numerous ops and learnt to live with chronic pain) I have recovered from severe depression due to PTSD and Diazepam addiction.
You would think that after all that I would be able to do a little thing like walking outside my front door.....But 3yrs ago I really couldn't...everytime I tried to go over my threshold.... my mouth would dry up, I would shake and tremble from head to toe, felt nauseous, dizzy and literally terrified...I wanted to do it so much that sometimes I actually collapsed in tears in the hall way. Thankfully I am now able to go out with my hubby, shopping and walking and am learning to accept the panic attacks/anx/agoraphbia without running away from them. I have managed to do this by... Finding this site where I learnt and understood what was happening to me, recieved so much help, support and encouragement from the lovely people on here, and by support and encouragement from friends and family and a good support worker who calls out to see me once a month. Sorry for the long post, I really hope some of it has helped.

I would also recommend reading Self Help for your nerves by Dr. Claire Weeks as she explains it very well.

:hugs: :hugs: :hugs: to you all.

Diane
'Remember, your imagination is always much worse than the reality'

[trampslikeus]

First of all I have to say that I think it's lovely you've joined up to try and understand, it's so supportive.

Aside from that, and in answer to your question, it really depends on your daughter how far is okay to guide her. As an 18 year old girl myself I can completely relate to the situation as my anxiety/panic issues started once I started Year 12, what with the coursework and exam prep it really all just got on top of me to the point that I behaved very similiarly to your daughter and began avoiding Sixth Form at all costs, consequently dropping out.
I'd say from my experience that had my family been even the slightest bit pushy when I was at the start of this journey I'd have probably been a lot worse than what I am now. It's only been about a year and a half, and I'm by no means anywhere near over the disorders or the panic attacks but I am now at a point where I want to get better, want to do things for myself and have realised that the only thing worse than going out when I feel awful is staying in and allowing those things to dominate my life. Generally, I truely believe that moment will come for your daughter, and while it's a pain to have to life in limbo until it does it might be a million times easier for her if you try not to mention it too much, I know that I always felt worse when my family mentioned 'who I used to be', or 'my future', because at the time you're in the midst of a panic disorder or attack, you don't see a future, you can't, all you can see is how terrified you are.

I think the only thing you can do for her is be as supportive as she needs and help her to realise that it's okay for her to be a different person now, because she'll probably be wishing she could be the girl she used to be before this happened. I'd try not to be too forthright in guiding her, not only because it'll cause friction, but because it'll seem pointless to her, everything seems pointless when you're living in a permanant state of panic. It's probably hard for her to talk about it too, because she'll most likely realise that it's all in her head, and just how little anyone who's never had a pa can understand on a deeper level how terrifying it is, it's truely awful to try and explain.
There is something I'd like to share with you, that helped me through when I was in the thick of it, it's only a little saying, that ironically I spawned when I was in the middle of a pa myself, but has since been repeated to me by my family whilst I've been panicking, and it really hits home, so you're more than welcome to mention it to her if it'll help.
'in the middle of a panic attack you beg not to die, for just one more day. what is the point of begging if you're only going to waste that day? if you're never actually going to live?'

i hope things get easier for you all soon,
take care
x

[Mikke]

Hi there CaringDad!

It seems you have two major issues to deal with, the emotional part, and the practical part.

The emotional part is quite easy to deal with. Your daughter is suffering from a rather terrible (but not dangerous and luckily manageable) condition.
The philosopher Kierkegaard, who himself suffered from panic attacks, once wrote that an anxiety attack is much like what he thought it would feel like to die, as the sufferer actually experience the intense, naked fear of dying for brief seconds at a time during an attack, and thus the persons suffering from these attacks have to deal with the emotinal experience of dying everyday. Most people have to deal with this extreme fear a few times in their life - your daughter has to experience this pain everyday.
I started having panic attacks in my teens as well, and I never had a father that would care so much as you do, writing in this forum for advice and help. Beacuse you love her so much, I'm sure you will have no trouble seeing her pain, and that is actually all she needs you to do on the emotional level.

There are practical issues too:
- Don't be to hard on her for not persuing other interests, she is most likely not in a state of mind that would make this activities enjoyable or meaningfull right now anyway. Most people with panic attacks have a great deal of trouble doing everyday things, like going to the movies, eat out, travel and even see friends. A distinct part of having panic disorder is the fear of having a major panic attack outside their "safe place", which most often is at home. She might be terrified of having a panic attack away from home.
- You must not let her condition interfere with parenting your other kids. Your other kids need you just as much.
- You should try to get actively involved in your daughters treatment. Panic disorder can be disabling if she doesn't get help, but she can live a fulfilling, good, happy life with the right treatment. In England (and most of Britain) you can rather easily seek a form of psychological therapy called Cognitive Therapy, which according to extensive research is proven the most effective treatment of panic disorder. It's usually a short termed therapy, she will probably get a lot better in about 6-10 sessions. Some therapist might prefer her to be medication-free while in therapy, other says it's ok to take f.ex antidepressants called SSRIs. In fact, the combination of cognitive therapy and SSRIs have, again according to research, a recovery rate of around 80%. The Cognitive Therapy will actually make her able to "face the world" once again, as she will learn effective ways to deal with her anxiety while participating in everyday activities.
- Hopefully your school can assist in finding ways for her to finish her education in some way, even if she has to take some months or weeks off school to get well again.

I wish you the best of luck.

[Caringdad]

Thanks to everyone for their replies - you've been really helpful AND supportive. Yesterday we had encouraged our other daughter (same age) to invite some school friends round to the house and that went well. She is going to cinema with family today (I hope) and has a counselling session this afternoon so I guess it will be a pretty stressful day for her.

The main thing seems to be we need to give her as much space to work it out for herself whilst also giving her lots of support and love - sounds like the tricky balance we've been trying to follow. Once again thank you all for your comments and best wishes to each of you with your own problems.

[lorac]

Hi Caringdad

Yes it is a very tricky balance and all you can do is give her love and support and hopefully she will come out of this. I am 48 and panic and anxiety came to me out of the blue when I reached 40 and it is the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with, no one really understands panic and anxiety unless they have suffered themselves so it is not an easy thing to help your daughter with. I found alot of my help on this site by being able to share with others who do understand and realising that I wasn't the only person who had these problems. I am gradually coming out of it now and the way I did it was by taking little steps at a time and not pushing myself too much so be patient with your daughter she will come out of this. My family don't understand how difficult it is for me to do the things they take for granted but with alot of encouragement from them I do my best and it is getting easier and I am sure that will be the case with your daughter.

I think it is great that you are on here looking for help and I am sure you and your wife will get your daughter back on the right road again, just be patient with her. Hope you all have a good time at the cinema this afternoon and the counselling goes well.

Take care

Carol

[Cheekyone]

Hi Caring Dad,

I read your post and it really touched something very deep inside me and made me want to really try and help. I'm 30 now, but 15 years ago I was exactly the 15 year old you are describing, a bright, high performing student, who opted out of school and out of life! My family tried very hard to help in the ways they thought were best, but they disagreed on what those ways should be and it caused a lot of family stress. It is a nightmare situation for any family and I don't think there is a right way forward or a correct way to do things.

Firstly I'd try not to get too hung up on the educational aspect. Your daughter is obviously very intelligent and will do well with or without formalised education. I also chose to stop attending school at around age 15, but now have GCSE's A-levels and university degrees, plus a varied CV. The Gcse's and A levels were achieved through home study and night school classes, rather than traditional formal schooling. So don't believe all hope is lost because of some missed education in your teens. I doubt very much that your daughter has no interests that could motivate her to want to get better, I suspect she's just so traumatised by her feelings of panic that there is no room at the moment to deal with anything other than that.

I don't know what kind of counselling sessions your daughter is having, but if it is anything like the ones i endured whilst missing school, I suspect it is all purpose driven towards her reattending school, which may be a pressure she just can't cope with right now. I found the most helpful thing at this chronic stage was to be able to do things that would help me to relax even just a little. Guided meditations and visualisations, available on dvd were very helpful. I also found reading books about what i was experiencing was crucial, because the condition is very isolating and most of the time you do believe you are the only person in the world feeling how you do right then. I found the books expressed what I could not find words for. I would strongly recommend the books "feel the fear and do it anyway" by susan Jeffreys and "self help for your nerves" or "essential help for your nerves" by Claire weeks. It may help if you also read them, as it might help you to understand the mentality and experiences of your daughter.

Although i hated my parents for it at the time, I'm also grateful that they did force me to go out and try very simple tasks, whilst always being with me to support me. Even just a short walk around the neighbourhood, was enough to stop the decline into shutting myself from the world getting completely out of hand. I think you just need to exercise caution in how far you push.

I can't claim to have any answer as I am still agoraphobic myself, but i have experienced what your daughter is going through and if i can help in any way by sharing my own experiences, answering questions or sharing any of the resources I have used, I'd be really happy to try. If you want I could give you an email contact so we could talk about it more?

Ros

[PUGLETMUM]

:) hi caring dad/ all, i would like to add to this thread as i also developed anxiety as a teen and had 6 months out of school.

knowing what we know now about anxiety disorders there is no need for your daughter to become agoraphobic as so many young sufferers on here have become because they didnt get the right help - myself included.

i would advise
1) knowing and accepting that you yourselves cannot change how your daughter is feeling/ thinking but you can facillitate for her to get better herself, by giving her the correct help and opportunities to challenge her beliefs about wha twill happen if she faces her fears.

2)not waiting for cbt on the nhs - it will take too long and could add to her problems - it has to be dealt with or it will develop into agoraphobia, which like someone else said although it isnt life threatening it is disabling(unless however they are prepared to give you the help sooner rather thatn later, i would make a big fuss about this, because although she isnt alone, because she is so young i would think she is a priority for cbt)

3) same as the other person said - dont let your daughters situation take over your lives - set boundaries so she knows she is not the centre of attention in the houshold, she has to take some responsibility for herself, this will help her to recover - it isnt anyone else fault anymore than it is hers, and life cannot revolve around her because she isnt strictly speaking 'ill' and she will recover - dont give it too much attention outwardly even if you spend alot of time thinking about it, try to maintain 'normality'

4)continue to come to nmp for support

5)look up as much as you can on-line and get self-help books for yourself and your daughter to read

6) go to NOPANIC's website a charity in telford, you can become a member and access self-help programmes that are written by the best ppl in the world (type in nopanic)

all best wishes to you and your daughter, emma:winks:

[freakedout]

Hi caringdad, welcome to nmp.

This is a great post and you have some excellent replies.

I don't really know that I have much more to add, but in my experience I didn't get the right professional support early enough, which I believe caused my symptoms to worsen. If you can get CBT sooner rather than later it may help to 'nip things in the bud' before they do worsen.

As for education, it has already been said that there are lots of options for studying later or from home, I am doing a course at home with OU and can even sit my exams at home with a home invigilator because of my panic attacks. Having said that, I already have lots of qualifications and a good CV but they all seem pretty useless because I am controlled by my panic and avoidance at the moment and haven't worked for the last 3 yrs :sad:.

I hope that things improve for you all soon. I wish your daughter all the best and respect to you for trying your best.

Take care
Freaky

[PUGLETMUM]

education is really important and so is a career, but nobody can do any of htis if they have developed avoidance as a way to cope with panic and anxiety. so the main priority is to stop the avoidance cycle whereby an individual retreats from their fear of any given situation and so re-inforces that there is something to be frightened of.

your daughter is experiencing the fight/flight response, nithing more nothing less - the problems only begin when avoidance becomes a behavioural way to attempt to control the symptoms. avoidance as a means to control the symptoms is the single biggest mistake anybody sufferign panic can make - this is where a habit starts to form, that the person runs away from the situation in order to releive themselves of the symptoms, however by not staying in the situation until the panic attack ends - it will even if it lasts quite long and is repeated - this is when the individual needs to find ways of coping - distraction, deep breathing, acceptance help - but the crucial part is to STAY until the panic is no longer 'feared' it may still be happening but the person knws it is being generated by fearful thoughts and that over time it will subside and and thye will return to nomal allbeit very tired!

your daughter can acheive anything she wants in life or not as the case may be, but if she develops avoidance behaviour as a means to cope she will inadvertantly create the very problems that members on here discuss on a daily basis. the whole situation your daughter is in is very simple but many many years of feeling like this complicate it and it ends up being hard to seperate the person from the disorder - however every single person on here who struggles is still aperson who has got swamped by there condition - it is reversible ans avoidable in the first place!

[titchjd]

Hi caring dad ......
You are doing the right thing by joining and getting support and help from this site.....I was wondering if your daughter could join as I know from suffering anxiety and PAs for a long time one of the main things is thinking that you are on your own and nobody else could ever know how you feel...yet when I joined here it was amazing to see how many people actually DO know exectly how i feel and I have been able 2 send private messages 2 people when I have struggled which has helped me tremendously.

I think it would help your daughter greatly as anxiety and panic is the most frighteneng thing 2 go through and shes probably going through the normal teenage faze aswel to add to her problems.

as for school yes it is important but I personnally wouldn't push it as these days you can go back 2 college and study like I did ....I was very clever at school but in the last 2years i just gave up couldnt be bothered and didnt get the results I should have .....but I went 2 college re sat some exams and then did 2 other diplomas and was a nursery teacher/deputy day care manager before I had my child...so education can be gained at any age......Please dont think Im saying your daughter should drop out and not do exams all Im saying is if she doesnt get the results expected she can re do them when shes better ...xx

I wish you all the best and Your daughter 2 xxx

[orangeblossom]

Hi there,

It was really moving to read your Post. I hope your daughter knows how lucky she is to have parents like you.

I also started having my panic attacks in my teens and part of the worst of it was thinking there were no one else like me, and that I was essentially going insane. I wonder if, perhaps, it might be of use to your daughter to join this forum to see that she isn't the only one going through the panic attacks nor counselling, and that we all do try our best to lead as full lives as we are able in spite of the condition?

In addition - I ended up having to take my A Levels at home because my panic attacks got so bad that I wasn't able to leave the house at this time despite massive amounts of medication and therapy. I wonder if it is possible for you and her teachers to arrange a meeting whereby she can do a significant amount of her academic work at home under the supervision of yourselves and perhaps tutors or other teachers? Also, whether it is possible for her to sit her GCSEs at home under the supervision of her school teachers (as I did)?

Mine had to be arranged like this literally at the last minute, but the school was incredibly helpful and very supportive - I ended up with pretty much all A's in my results and ended up getting into a top 5 university and am currently doing my PhD so it is certainly worth persevering!!

[The Fool]

wow if i were 1 year older it would sound like you were describing me :o but im not i do no who you are talking about though she has become a very good friend of mine over these past few weeks :) it is very hard to deal with but i no amy is trying her best and i no its hard to understand if you have never had to deal with it as my parents found it just as hard.i am homeschoold as i no amy would like to be and i must say if it were up to me i wouldnt be i hate it but i really had no choice and even though my education is suffering slightly my anxitey has gotten so much better as i have been able to cope with it without the presures of school.i hope you and amy sort somthing out i no you are being supportive just bear with her she will get over it!!

best wishes
charli xx

[seeker]

Hello,
I'm a teacher who has had panic attacks in the past, and also helped pupils just like your daughter suffering at school.

I think I would try and get to the bottom of what actually triggers her attacks - is it school, or is it more general than that (ie going out and about outside the home?). If it is school, exactly what is it about school - the other pupils, exams, certain lessons? This may help you and her realsie it does not have to be an 'all or nothing' illness - if you can try and pinpoint the triggers, it may help to tackle them.

The pupil I helped was under a lot of stress over exams - she was very sensitive to all the pressure piled on kids (and it is immense these days - utterly ridiculous in my opinion) to start making major life decisions at 15. yes, it is important, yes it can affect your life, but at the same time, nothing is forever! Even if kids fail all their exams (highly unlikely if they are predicted A/b grades), it's still not the end of the world - they can resit them! Lots of my friends (and I'm sure lots of yours, too) did appallingly badly at school but have gone to make real successes of their lives.

Regarding school, I would definitely speak to her head of year and her form tutor about this. It might help to make teachers aware of what is happening. I used to let the pupil leave the classroom to go for a quick walk to calm down. I also offered her my classroom as somewhere she could sit at break and lunch times, for some peace and quiet. Schools are frantic, hectic, noisy, intimidating places (and that's just for staff!). It can all get too much sometimes.

I would also stress to her that she's perfectly normal, not a freak, not going mental and that she can get over this (those were always my biggest fears when I was anxious).

Good on you for being so supportive - I hope all goes well and do give us an update!

[seeker]

ps -there is an online CBT course to help with anxiety - it helps you to understand the triggers for your anxiety and coping mechanisms. It is livinglifetothefull - if you google it, it will come up.

[CrossingTheWater]

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