So sick of myself

[freakedout]

Hi everyone, or anyone !

I have come to have a moan. I really am truly sick of myself. I am in the process of having cbt (again) as I was not really well enough last time I had it. I am struggling with some of the concepts. I have been told that it is not just about positive thinking, but instead rational thinking basing my thoughts on evidence. So, for example instead of thinking "oh no, I am choking, I can't breath" I have to think something like "I feel as though I am choking but I can breath and everything will be ok and I will live to tell the tale". Fair enough, but how the hell does this stop me from having panic attacks?? I already know that my fears, phobias and avoidance are irrational and I know that I have a lot of negative thoughts but as far as I can see the evidence is that I have panic attacks, and I have had panic attacks for a long time and still when I try to face up to situations which I have avoided I have a panic attack.

I wish I had this damn disorder under control because I am sick of it controlling me. I may be wrong and would value any comments from people on their experience of CBT, for me I think it is a bit too late. How does rational thinking, or positive thinking make the panic experience any more tolerable? or how does it make you want to put yourself through situations when you know you are likely to have a panic attack. It just doesnt make much sense to me. It seems comparable to me eating a beefburger and saying it is delicious when I have been a vegetarian for 20yrs, the evidence is that the burger tastes good but something doesnt seem right somehow.

Sorry I am talking crap, but I am confused and feeling despair and depression. My situation will never ever be any better and I am just so sick of myself.

Freaky

[gtrgrl3369]

Its normal to be confused about something you dont understand. The way it works is that if you can retrain your brain to have more controlled thoughts then after a while it will do it on itself and it wont be a struggle to think that way. Our brains have a glitch which makes us think the worst and do a lot of "what ifs" if you can retrain it not to do that then you will get better. It is alot of hard work but well worth it. Fear is what most of what we suffer from. Once that gets under control with different thinking, you are on your way. I hope this helps explain it even a little. Take care.

[Nechtan]

Hi Freaky,

I can understand your concerns as I think we've all been there- or like me still there. It's very hard to see a way out and near impossible to think we could ever find normality again. Sometimes when I feel at my lowest I have a look through the "success story" forum where you will see it can be done or at the very least progress being made.

One thing I keep saying and still cannot understand. People will give us labels and even give us treatment but it is rare for someone to sit you down and actually explain what is going on with your body and why it is reacting. Unless you have read a book like the ones by Dr Weekes or found this type of information by chance then the liklihood is you are in the dark. This is what amazes me because we as suffers need to know this information first before we can start to accept treatment. In fact it is essential to know because when you know you lose the confusion to a large extent and can recognise the patterns as harmless- though still frightening.

On your question about why postive thinking would make a difference the best I can say is this. From what I understand it is not actually these thoughts we have that are the problem even though that seems to be the way of it. It's actually our emotional reaction to them. It's the emotional reaction to thoughts that put the fear mechanisms in full swing and lead to panic. So if you have a thought and it scares you then your body will react with the flight or fight mechanisms- which we know as a panic attack. If however we can retrain our thought process to reaction emotionally in a different way to these thoughts then they will not set that process in emotion- ie don't be fearful of the thought. What this also does is stop the same thought recurring with the adverse emotional attachment.

All the best

Nechtan

[lilly-lou]

I can remember thinking the same as you the first time I had C.B.T. I have agoraphobia that left me completely housebound for over 2yrs to the extent that I couldn't even get to the garden gate and my garden at the time wasn't very big. I was told the only was to overcome the agoraphobia was to expose myself to the things that made me panic, in my case going out, I thought she was completely off her trolley but dispite this I gave it a go. At first I couldn't even get off my eatate and would cry in the car and beg my hubby to take me home but each time I went out it got easier as my brain started to realise that even if I did panic provided I didn't pay too much attention to it would settle. It is negative thinking that causes the panic in the first place so if you can break this cycle things will be much easier.

It is never too late and the only real way of overcoming the panic or at least of controling it is not to avoid the situations that make us have panic, take things slowly, don't try and push yourself too much in the early days, set yourself goals and when you have achieved them praise yourself you'll be amazed at what you can do once your confidence has increased. I can now drive again, do my own shopping, go to the pictures, bike rides and can go away for a short break, oh yes and I have done this without meds and just with the exposure therapy. I hope it all makes sence to you

lilly-lou

[sheena]

Hi

I can feel your pain. I was agoraphobic for 3 years. The first time I was not ready for CBT but the second time it started to work. I had a lovely quiet spoken lady who was younger than me.

We had two sessions where she got to know me. My first time out was to put the bin from the back garden to the outside. I did have panic attack but breathed through it. I was really glad, at that time, to get back indoors but felt good that I had managed to put the bin out realising that if I did have a panic attack I could control it and not let it control me. I also had a fear that Iwould not get back into the house, so then and now I always have a spare key in my pocket. I take it out at night and put it on the chest of drawers and I automatically put it back in, in the morning.

What I am trying to say,is that, you are not going to get better overnight but you can do it, it you start with tiny steps.

The CBT is about retaining our minds from 'Oh no I am going to have a panic attack' to ' OK I might have a panic attack' but eventually I will be able to, with tiny steps, start to go out into the big bad world again.

Don't feel bad about yourself, you are just as worthy as the next person. You have to belive it and believe in yourself.

I wish you all the courage in the world.:bighug1:

Sheena

[Caringdad]

Firstly I only entered this thread because you replied to mine in such a good way I was interested to see what your post said. Having read it and never having experienced a Panic Attack I would only say one thing. You are trying something that MAY work to overcome a problem that is controlling your behaviour in a negative way and sounds like it has for a long time - I do not know if it will work but I think you need to persevere and be patient - the worst thing that can happen is it does not help and you are still in the same position - the best thing that can happen is that it will transform your life so keep trying. Best wishes

Caringdad.

[Bri02]

Hi there,

I know just how you feel - I get frustrated to tears quite often and can appreciate your points about CBT but I have started to see it making a positive impact with me.

I think what I found most useful was an explanation that my therapist gave involving thoughts, feelings and behaviour. Apologies if you have already heard this but thought it would write just incase (:) .
She asked me to think about being alone and being woken up in the middle night by the noise of breaking glass, I was then asked to rate my feelings in terms of a word and a percentage (100% being the worst) and describe my behaviour as a response to the 'immediate thought'. The first immediate thought she proposed I would have was "oh my god someone is breaking in", my feeling to this would be terrified 90% and my behaviour would be to panic, perhaps call the police etc. She then proposed an alternative immediate thought as being "that bloody cat next door is breaking milk bottles again", my feeling to this was irritation 20% but my behaviour was to roll over and go back to sleep, deal with it in the morning.

She highlighted that the two immediate thoughts to exactly the same event are at polar extremes, as are the feelings attached and the responses - I think this really helped me to see how my panic and anxiety is stemming from an immediate thought which is over-sensitive and not the only one there is. Before the CBT I knew that my fear wasn't entirely rational but this really helped me appreciate that there are alternative thoughts. I still panic but if nothing else CBT has started to make me think of alternative thoughts sometimes. When i feel positive I sometimes think maybe, one day the alternative thoughts will become so natural that I don't actually have to think them,fingers crossed anyway.

As said, apologies if you already have heard this. Having the bodily responses drummed into me by the therapist also helped a lot. And I know there are lots of books out there but I found 'Panic Attacks' by Christine Ingham was really good and simple for getting the body responses stuck into my mind. So I try not to always think of them as panic attacks - just think through what my body is doing at certain stages, think why and work on it.

I know nothing is simple and sometimes things work for some and not others, take care.

[freakedout]

Hello everyone and thank you to each and every one of you for reading my post and replying.

I guess that my negative thoughts are so automatic now that yes I am going to have to try hard to think of alternatives, and having read your responses I can comprehend somewhat better how these thoughts can have an impact on my behaviour, or how I react to them. I am familiar with the fight or flight response and how symptoms of panic can be explained, so I am ok with understanding that. In the early days, 14yrs ago I didn't realise though and thought I was 'cracking up'. I appreciate what you said Nechtan and gtrgrl about being fearful of the thoughts, I realise that it is fear of experiencing the fear of panic attacks that makes me avoid. Hmmm, I remember my previous CBT therapist telling me that.

lilly-lou and sheena, you sound as though you have climbed mountains, well done to you both. Do you manage to do all the things you couldnt do previously without any major problems now, or do you find that because you think about things in a different way they seem more manageable? I think my expectations are perhaps a bit 'all or nothing' and maybe I should try small steps. I just feel frustrated and pathetic at making a big deal of things. My therapist said I need to work on my self-confidence and I guess that begins with accepting myself (eek!) and believing in myself like sheena said.

Caringdad, thanks yes when you look at it like that 'What's the worst that can happen?' The thought that my life could be transformed hasn't really ocurred to me, but yes it is a thought I will definately remember so thanks.

Bri02, what you said I haven't heard before and they are good examples. You said that when you are positive that you think the alternative thoughts may become more natural so you don't have to think about them. I know what you mean.

I have a lot to digest, I am so greatful for your replies. I feel better now than I did when I originally posted and I hope that one of these days I will be able to write a success story.

Thankyou again and take care everyone.

Freaky

[lilly-lou]

I can do most things without having a major panic but the change in my thought pattern has helped me to achieve going out again, for example I always think the worse of every situation and to some extent still do say I'm in a shop and I need to get out because I am begining to panic instead of thinking 'O.M.G.' I can't do this I'm gonna end up back house bound I now think its no big deal that I needed to step outside for a minute to calm myself down its not a failure after all I still went in the shop, just by not winding myself up about it and focusing too much on the negative side helps me to cope, does that make sence. I still am very edgy when I go out but the way I think about it has changed heaps from that first car journey.

You need to keep practicing the new techniques and with time they will start to work, and don't be too hard on yourself, I always think I wouldn't run a marathon without training, well its the same with anxiety, we need to train our brains to think differently. You are in no way pathetic and I too make a big deal out of things.

I find a lot of encouragement reading the sucess stories, they give me hope that I can manage this disorder, I have been posting there a lot so other sufferers can be encourage that no matter how bad things have become that you can make progress.

I wish you well.

Hugs

lilly-lou

[freakedout]

Hi lilly-lou,
Thanks for your encouraging reply. I is good to read about your experience, and it sounds as though you are coping with your anxiety well. What you have written makes total sense. It is just a pity that we cannot get rid of the anxiety completely, what a difference that would make.

Thanks again, and best wishes to you too.

Freaky