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emma81
08-09-08, 21:19
Hi everyone - sorry if this is a bit long i will try and explain it as best i can.

I saw a new therapist today - a consultant-neuropsychologist to be exact. I was interested in something she said about agoraphobia which i guess could be applied to all phobias in general. Having seen psychiatrists, cpn's, gp's etc and they all have tried to treat the problem - me not leaving the house to go more than a few yards in 3 years - well this therapist wants to take a different approach (seeing as the exposure work i have had so far doesnt seem to be working).

So anyway her approach is that i have not to think i am agoraphobic. I am not scared of the outside world (her words not mine) - it wouldnt matter if i was 5 mins from the house or 5 hours from the house - the distance/place/environment is not the issue.

The panic attack is.

She said to me it will not help me to think of myself as having agoraphobia because what i actually have is a fear of having a panic attack. So it does not matter what my environment is or distance from home is because i dont fear that - i fear the panic. Any time i have been anywhere and felt anxious my natural instinct is to avoid that place in future incase that anxiety develops into a panic attack. So really it doesnt matter whether the fear is leaving the house, being sick, health problems, or anything else that people develop phobias about - because the actual phobia behind it all is panic attacks. She said that most if not all phobias become phobias because people experience such severe irrational terror and panic to something that they then avoid that because they never want to feel that panic again. So it is not the act of leaving the house or being sick or whatever that is the phobia - it is the result of doing so - the repeat of the terrifying panic attack. Does that make sense?

So this therapist has now decided that exposure work is not going to be based on seeing how far i can go or how long i can stay in a certain place - instead she is going to try and teach me how to deal with panic attacks, how to distract myself when i feel anxiety building up, how to calm myself when they occur and so on. Then it will not matter whether i am trying to go to the local supermarket or travelling on a plane to the other side of the world because i wont need to think oh god im getting further and further away from home - all i will need to think of is if i feel panicky how to calm it down again. Im kind of skeptical about this approach as i have done my own research through books and online on how to control a panic attack for 3 years now and it hasnt worked at all.

So i really just wondered what fellow phobia sufferers make of this approach?

Emma x

ladybird64
08-09-08, 21:52
Hi Emma

I also did exposure therapy, it did seem to work but only up to a point.
If I had spent all the time advised by my therapist exposing myself to the individual situations that made me panic I would have been out all day..so that didn't work in the long run.
What your therapist is talking about regarding the panic itself, not the places where you panic is similar to what I have read in the Claire Weekes book, however she doesn't advocate distraction or trying to calm yourself, she advocates welcoming the panic and seeing it right through without trying to fight it or tense yourself against it.
I'll admit that I'm confused too, I have been given the label of agoraphobia but the whole thing is very confusing..:wacko:
I'm trying to follow the advice that I have read and have had some success but I'm not sure if I'm using the exposure technique, Claire Weekes' advice or some hidden internal strength!
My natural instinct is to try and fight the oncoming panic which she says is totally the wrong way to go about things, at the moment I'm willing to try anything so I'm giving her advice a good try.
Feel free to PM me if you want. :)

freakedout
08-09-08, 23:04
Hi emma,

what you have written makes total sense, and yes I was told something very similar by my CBT therapist a few years ago. I have also tried distraction and while this helps to an extent it is not totally effective for me and I still avoid situations where I fear having a panic attack. I have just bought the Claire Weekes book, I am at my wits end with it all, I feel like I have a lot of knowledge but applying what I am told, or what I know is so difficult especially when the situations where I feel panic, anxiety and agoraphobic are so diverse.

Keep posting, it would be interesting to see how you get on with your therapy. I wish you the very best of luck.

Freaky

orangeblossom
09-09-08, 00:31
Okay, that is really interesting... and actually makes sense too.

This may sound a little 'new age' or whatever, but changing your thoughts about 'what' you are and how you cope in various circumstances really does make a considerably bigger difference than most of us anticipate. I know that changing how I perceive myself and what I experience with anxiety is not easy, but really makes a difference re: what I am able to do.

Being able to deal with the panic/anxiety in any situation is incredibly useful - whether you are just in the garden or flying to Australia! - so for her to teach you how to do this is probably the best thing that you can learn. Especially, as you have said, exposure therapy has not worked for you and you have, essentially, been housebound for the last three years.

It definitely sounds logical and reasonable to me!

solent
09-09-08, 22:23
The bit about it not being a fear of being outside, but a fear of panic attacks is very true to me. I didn't even realise I had agoraphobia until I learn that is what agoraphobia is.

So, it's a fear of panic attacks. And panic attacks are just fear. And fear can't hurt you, so there's no need to worry about it.

Well, that's the theory. But when you find the fear utterly terrifying it's much easier said than done.

I wish you the best of luck on your journey.

jill
10-09-08, 11:31
Hi hun, :D:hugs:

I agree 100% what your therapist has said, regarding your problem. I feel, it is sooooo true that when we label ourselves with a fear of a thing, eg, going out, (agoraphobia) shops, crowds, pubs, smells, sounds, ohhhh and many, many more, in a split second, we can, re-programme our minds to THINK we fear them things. To me, a label, IS very sticky and DAME hard to get off.( but NOT impossible, it CAN be done) When in reality, its NOT, those things we fear, BUT, how we feel,(panic, high levels of anx) THATS what we fear. I do know, that panic, is trama, the mind is very good at remembering where, when you had truma, so, you feel, when you put yourself in the things you have labeled, these things, REMIND you of this truma, then you feel the truma will happen again and as time goes on, this becomes, what I call, an automatic response, which, YOU have programmed yourself, becuase, we ALL know, that any truma, is NOT nice to go through, so why would you put yourself in a place where you THINK, you may have this truma, your mind will put you on protection mode, hence, you avoid these places things or whatever AT ALL COST.

That is why we say, learn all you can about panic, anxiety, get to know your fears, this is soooo important knowing your fears, look really hard at what you fear, if you look very, very closely, its NOT these things you fear, but HOW YOU FEEL, each time you try and do these things you THINK, you fear, the auto response kicks in, this is only becasue, you have put false labels on these things. You have programmed your mind, to think of these things and linked them to your truma. When in FACT, your first PA, may have been caused by ,mmmm only you know this hun, but what we are left with, is fear of another and another and if not treated in the right way, we can falsely label, ALOT of things.

Have you ever listend to a song, a song that makes you feel good and brings back good memories,? I know I have, and it brings back all the good feelings, you smile to yourself and OFF you mind goes remembering that good time. NOW, thats a positive auto response, we are programmed to think this way.

But when the panic response has been triggered for, what can seems like for some people, for no good reason (there always is a reason, but its finding it, thats can be hard) are lack of understand and confustion on whats happening helps it spiral out of control, we very, very, quickly begin to respond in the only way we knoiw how, WE LOOK for danger. Now, if this response kicks in when there is real danger, your eyes will see this, do what you have to do and the response has had GOOD reason for this danger, you reasure yourself when the real danger is over and you go back to normal mode.

When this response has been triggered in a false alarm, WE STILL look for danger, BUT, we CANNOT see it, we can smell it feel it, this makes us more scared, our minds go into overdrive, WE feel, at that time, WE NEED to see the danger so we can do something about it, BUT, because its a false alarm, this is where we go wrong, we start to label what is around us, we learn very quickly, that if we label something, we can avoid and this stops us from feeling what we feel, now this is ok for short tearn, BUT, in long tearn, if we do not take this label OFF, we end up fearing even more things, again, in reality, its NOT what we have labeled we fear, BUT, how we THINK, it makes us feel, a memorie of a truma.

I do feel that exposure therapy works, with CBT, learning all you can about panic, anxeity, but whats important too, is learning about yourself, JUST WHAT IS IT YOU FEAR? Help yourself to understand, that labeling, was your minds way of trying to protect you from any more truma, BUT, with panic, high levels of anxiety, avoiding things and labeling things, IS NOT the right thing to do.

I know for me, when I was acute, I came to understand that my FIRST panic was my minds way of saying, that there was alot of things I needed to address in my life, BUT, my lack of understanding of this illness, helped it spiral out of control, but I also feel, that its a pritty HARSH way of telling me, that I needed to address something in my life :lac: lets face it, how many people, learn about the flight, fight response (PANIC) or this response when it is in normal mode, when we are in real danger, we don't. The hardest lesson learned is when your in the middle of it and trying to get better and understand whats going on IS DAME hard, the spiral of fear IS horrific, we don't know what to do, we do, at the moment of it happening, what we feel is right, BUT, little do we know, we can be doing everything wrong, BUT, all we know in this mode, is we NEED to do something, we NEED to find out whats causing it, our minds start to label, yet, unknowingly, THATS wrong.

I do feel, the longer you have had these labels the harder it is, I am be honest hear, its NOT going to be easy taking these labels off, BUT, BUT,BUT, YOU CAN, with alot of hard work and the right support, you CAN, chip away at these labels and in time, they ARE GONE. Help yourself to understand its NOT what you have labeled you fear, its how you feel (PANIC) THATS what you fear.

Many, many years before I had pa's, high anxiety, my daughter at the age of 3 years had pa's, high anxiety, (will not go into the full story) BUT, the labels went on in a matter of weeks, lack of understanding what was wrong with her from gp, hospital, specialist, those labels went on FAST, ohhh boy, it took a very long time to take some of those labels off, BUT, we as a family and my brave young daughter who I am soo proud off DID IT. But, it was bl**dy hard.

I know, exposure thearpay works,BUT, with changing the way you think about panic, anxiety. Learning coping skills. Learning to feel safe, with yourself. leaning these things first, then, doing exposure.

I know for me, when I was acute, I was dame lucky to find this great site, god knows how I would have been now, (still in panic mode) this site has tought me lots of things, it has helped me look in the right direction. It helped me understand, that there was NOTHING going on in my life, at that time keeping the panic going, apart from I feared panic, I feared fear. Yes,I had things to address in my life, so I began to address them, one, by one, where panic was concerned, I began the battle, the thought changing began, everytime Mrs Panic tried his best my mind would spring into action, recalling on ALL my past memories depending on where or when Mr P arrived, eg, going out, I would try very hard to remember, HAY, I LIKE going out, I do remember getting angry and screaming, I LIKE GOING OUT, p*ss of* Mr P Mrs A, tried there damdest to put many, many labels on things, but, I tried my hardest NOT, to put them on, BUT, it was not easy..

I do know, that when you come to understand that panic, comes from within, AND NOT from out, this is a very large step forward to recover, it help us move on a little and when we start to learn coping skills for panic, high leves of anx, this allso helps us move on a little, then, learn, that anxiety DOES NOT always lead to panic, we can have lower levels of anx, this DOES NOT always lead to panic, we have as humans, normal anxiety levels, we all get them from time to time, so please hun, learn, that anxiety does NOT always lead to panic. this helps us move on a little and ALL these little moves and changing of thoughts helps us get better, its the little things that count for sooooo much.

Ohh sorry I am woffling, not sure if this has been of any help, I am panic free but still working on my confidance, so I do hope this has been of some help.

YOU TAKE CARE, believe this is going to work hun, IT WILL, when you believe something, REALLY believe, you mind will find ways to do it.

please let us know how things go hun,

LOVE JILLXXX