View Full Version : Is this the cruelest disorder?
xBettyBoopx
30-09-08, 17:04
Personally I think that anxiety & panic are the cruelest of disorders. They give you physical symptoms which go away after a while only to come back again. Unlike other illnesses which will go or not (if you see what I mean).
How cruel is it to be given a life only to not be able to live it because of physical symptoms which would not be there if were weren't so afraid. What are we afraid of anyway?
I have realised over some years now that I will never get over this, I have had it for 32 years. My personal take on anxiety & panic is that if you get it when you're going through a stressful situation, like a bad divorce or something like that, that as you come to terms with what you are going through, the symptoms of anxiety lesson (not in all cases but most I think). But if you get anxiety/panic for no apparent reason, like myself at age 18, then it's just something that you have to live with.
Have you noticed that people suffer with certain things a lot? Like somebody you know might have a lot of stomach problems or someone else always chest problems. Is it then that it's nature? How we are born? So basically I am saying that these things are inherent in us (meant to be) & there's nothing you can do to make it any better.
I stress again that it is my personal opinion & I expect that a lot of people will disagree, that's ok we all have our opinions. I suppose I can only go from what I've seen & been through & seen others go through.
Do you think that the world has to be a balance. Like when a child is born, someone dies. Autumn & winter versus spring & summer. I could go on.............but I won't.
Anxeity & panic, depression etc won't kill us, but robs us of a life that we could have, I find that devestating, because we also lose friends who don't understand, we lose our jobs if we keep having time off or we just can't do it anymore. So then we become financially challenged by trying to live on the benefit from taxpayers. Some people might be lucky to have understanding people as friends & in the family but personally I have lost everything & everyone & that's why I think it's the cruelest of illnesses.
Sorry if I have offended anyone with this post, but for me it is the truth & I just needed to get it off my chest.
Els
xxx
Els, its not an offensive post at all. It is a cruel illness and ive suffered with it for 33 years. Even if we know what we have wont kill us, the symptoms can be so overwhelming that they can, and do, disable us. We try so hard to get on top of it and talk ourselves aroind, but if it were that easy we would have been 'cured' a long time ago. I also think that taking meds prolongs it all too. The docs dont know what to do with us so they drug us up and leave us to it...well ok not everyone is on meds, and i take my hat off to anyone coping with this without i can tell you.
After so many years of it, it would be so easy to give up and give in, but we're made of stronger stuff arent we....we must be if we're still around.
keep your chin up elspeth.
Cathy xxx :hugs:
"Personally I think that anxiety & panic are the cruelest of disorders."
Are you saying that you think anxiety/panic is worse than kids with cancer, leukemia, or someone with diabetes leading to having their legs amputated, etc.
I think anxiety tends to make people very self-absorbed and focused on themselves, after all there are far worse things.
As bad as anxiety is, if you are determined enough, with the right treatment, it is possible to get over it enough to lead a fairly 'normal' life.
-----------------------
"I also think that taking meds prolongs it all too."
This is something I have been thinking about too.
I agree, I think it is one of the cruelest disorders - although of course there are plenty who suffer other terrible conditions. I have had health anxiety for nearly thirty years - and my heart really goes out to any one, especially to all the young people, who post with their anxieties; it saddens me to think they may have to cope with this awful condition for many years to come, and to think of the wasted years.
Fortunately over the past year or so I have become better able to cope, athough sometimes I break down with the anxiety. This is a wonderful site - wonderfully supportive. I would say that most people who suffer in the way we do have great compassion and it is lovely to see how supportive everyone can be.
i think when someone has an illness other than anxiety other people understand while the illness is in the brain (the bodys most powerful organ) nobody can see whats wrong we have no sypmtoms that you can see for example if i were to have something that was visible to others people would be asking if i was ok if i have a pa people roll there eyes and say again!! so yes i think it is an illness just as bad as any other i cant take med im too scared i will have an allergic reaction to medication!!
Ken, it could be debated that at least people with a true physical illness know what they are coping with, and to use children with a terminal illness as an example is not good...thats a bit cruel of you really isnt it.
Are you trying to say that people with anxiety symptoms or depression or OCD, or any of the other mental illnesses are selfish people? Ive brought 4 wonderful children up whilst living through this 'false illness' and do you think for one moment that i would choose to feel the way ive felt for the past 33 years? that i wouldnt have wanted to feel well? to be able to live my life to its fullest without fear?
I think we are well aware that there are people with 'real' illnesses and we feel guilty enough knowing that ours isnt an organic illness, but its real enough to us. How can you say what you said Kendo, to someone like elspeth who has lost everything she had through this....try telling her what she feels is not real.
Cathy V
Ken, it could be debated that at least people with a true physical illness know what they are coping with, and to use children with a terminal illness as an example is not good...thats a bit cruel of you really isnt it.
Well, it does make the point and put it into perspective, that as debilitating as anxiety *can be*, I'd rather suffer a lifetime of anxiety than have my child get leukemia.
Are you trying to say that people with anxiety symptoms or depression or OCD, or any of the other mental illnesses are selfish people?
No, I'm saying that anxiety by it's very nature, makes us more in tune with our own 'phobias' and therefore more introspective.
I think we are well aware that there are people with 'real' illnesses and we feel guilty enough knowing that ours isnt an organic illness, but its real enough to us. How can you say what you said Kendo, to someone like elspeth who has lost everything she had through this....try telling her what she feels is not real.
I never said it wasn't real. I said there are things much worse/crueller.
That was what this thread was about, wasn't it?
Your post was not offensive at all.. that's what this site is all about, sharing our different experiences and opinions.
I do agree that it's devastating having a panic / anxiety disorder. But I personally believe that most people can overcome them and take a certain element of control back in their lives. I'm reminded of this everytime I read the 'success stories' section of this site... I do it quite often, as it gives me encouragement to continue with my own personal struggle with anxiety.
I also agree with Cathay (hello dear!) that meds can prolong it..that was my experience with depression..I made the most progress when I came off the meds. It's for that reason that i've preferred to deal with my current 'issues' with CBT, counselling, hypnotherapy and lifestyle changes (thankfully I'm confident enough to exercise again, and it really does help).
When I read your post, I feel a great sense of sadness at how this has affected you and your life. There was not offence taken, just a feeling of compassion for you.
well said cathy i am bringing up six children just now ages from toddler to teenager i know how tough they can be with my "not real" illness well its real to me and has been since i was eleven years old twenty two yrs if i had control over this i would not have given it twenty two mins of my life never mind years i think your comment is unfair
lee xx
Granny Primark
30-09-08, 18:48
This illness robs so many people of there lives.
Ok so we cant see it but it it doesnt mean it isnt there.
For me the probs I encounter in trying to get on with life is doubled by the fact that people cant understand why I cant do things.
milly jones
30-09-08, 19:57
i think its no different than organic illness as it disables a person just as any physical illness can do.
as to being able to get rid of it, well im constantly striving, but i dont think i can ever be the person i was before the breakdown now.
ive gone from being a confident high flyer, to a quiet wimp in 3 little years.
however as ive said before i reckon im a much nicer person now, so i guess every cloud...
i do wish tho that i could have travelled this road and been allowed to turn back and modify my life to avoid the breakdown altogether, so i can talk, walk and be part of the human race again without fear
milly xx
IS IT THE CRUELEST ILLNESS -
Elspeth ---- Yes, I think so. Very good post.
Kendo,
My heart breaks for children with leukaemia etc, etc, starving children in the world --- I could go on.
I have to say that your comment "if you are determined enough" ....... !! Oh mate, "dtermined" - I have been determined for the last four years and there is not a day that I do not challenge this thing. The years prior to these last four I was on a medication which helped the anx a great deal.
I have had all the m eds, psychologist, cbt, exposure therapy, hypnotherapy (many years ago) - acupuncture (many years ago) - I could list more but won't. Determined is something that I truly am and I know somany others who are as well.
I know a lady in a wheelchair - hasn't walked for years, she is not old around 45. She is bright and doesn't suffer anxiety. She enjoys things that she can do, and she smiles and laughs a lot. Now let's take depression - you can't enjoy stuff, sometimes you can't smile (not even a false smile) and that's tragic isn't it.
My own dear brother lost his lovely son at age 27. My brother suffered badly with grief. However, a few years on my brother still continues his business and has a good social life. My brother does not suffer anxiety or depression.
Kendo, I'm sorry I've ranted a bit but it did get my back up. Speaking from the heart now - please tell me how determined one has to be - or put it another way, other than walk on hot coals I've suffered for this illness with my challenging of it. Please tell me how to do it - how to live a normal life with it.
You obviously cope pretty well with it Kendo - how do y ou do it - and to what degree do you suffer? I ask that because people do suffer to different degrees - you only have to read some of the posts on here.
I suffer from acute clinical depression, PTSD, & stress/anxiety attacks. I'm on meds and had counselling. I know what it's like. Yes, it interferes with my life and prevents me doing a lot of stuff I used to do. Yes, it has made me a completely different person to who I used to be. In the last 18 months I've gone from being an outgoing bloke with a good well-paid career, to a nervous wreck scraping by on benefits. So yes, I do know how it feels. I have to force myself to get out of bed, let alone go outside the front door, and often I am literally shaking, sweating, and hyperventilating with the panic/anxiety. But I can do it.
I also know what it's like to see people suffer much worse problems.
My grandfather had his legs amputated at the thighs, from gangrene/diabetes when he was middle-aged, and was in a wheelchair for many years. My mother broke her neck when she was at the age I am now, and she was a full quadraplegic, paralyzed from the neck down, for several years before she died from a related condition. My niece has cystic fibrosis, she can't exert herself much, has to have about 20 pills and a couple of injections every day, and isn't expected to live past her 15th birthday. I had a friend at school with Muscular Dystrophy, and watched him waste away over the years and die aged 18.
I realize there are people who are physically crippled yet live a full life. There are also people with crippling physical conditions and people who suffer much more severe mental problems than anxiety/depression who can't do as much as we can.
All in all, I still think that as far as 'disorders' go & as bad as anxiety & panic can be, they are not the worst or cruellest, by a long way.
Yes, there are days when things get on top of me and I need a rant/hugs, etc, but in general I find it helps to keep my stress/anxiety/depression in perspective, by trying not to wallow in self-pity and not allowing myself to be beaten by it, reminding myself that there are other people who cope with much worse.
Is anxiety/panic debilitating? Yes, of course.
Is it the cruellest disorder? Not by a long shot.
But then that's just my opinion, and I'm sorry if it offends anyone.
milly jones
30-09-08, 20:40
come on guys we are here to help each other get better
we are all sufferers in different ways to different degrees
some of us have physical illnesses alongside the mental issues
lets all work to supporting each other
hugs
mill xx
everyone on here is going to have different opinions and thats good cos it gives people different views etc, it doesnt necessarilly mean any one is right or wrong its just how each of us feels personally.
we are all here to help and support each other like milly says and at end of day alot of us have similar issues, problems, illnesses so lets try and help each other and be the caring genuine lovely gang we are on NMP. xxx
Veronica H
30-09-08, 21:06
:hugs:Hi Els
You have found this site and people who understand how awful and life changing this can be. Family and friends often don't know what to do to help, as my husband says 'if it was a broken leg I would know exactly what to do or not to do'.
Veronica x
But I personally believe that most people can overcome them and take a certain element of control back in their lives. I'm reminded of this everytime I read the 'success stories' section of this site... I do it quite often, as it gives me encouragement to continue with my own personal struggle with anxiety.
Well said. My sentiments too. I refuse to let this thing beat me.
Veronica H
30-09-08, 21:16
:bighug1: Kendo, I get your point. I was not offended at all by your opinion, which you are quite entitled to voice. You must admit though you do have a way with words at times which can tactfully be described as 'up front'.
Veronica
HelloWell not got much to add but it can be overcome I promiseYou either give in to it or fight backThe worse thing Ive ever seen is someone suffering from an awful illness(not naming it cos dont want mass panic)Im an undertaker and when you die you get well looked after.....so whats to fearPlease dont waste your lives trying to avoid the enevitable!!!Kaz x x x
But some of us are beaten by it...why dont you get that? after 30-odd years im entitled to say im beaten by it and so is elspeth who has lost everything because of it. And if it goes on for another 20-odd years, which i kinda think it just f***ing might do for chr**t sake, then i would say i had a reason to think that i will end my days still trying to fight it...thats a whole lot of energy in one lifetime....and I didnt choose this, it chose me!!
And if anyone dares to tell me to fu**ing 'float through it' one more time i'll hunt them down and kil them.
Ok? Ok....:noangel: I love you all honest xxxxx
I think everyone is entitled to their opinion - sometimes I feel guilty because I wish in some ways that i did have a serious illness at least then it would all be over at some point or there would be some hope of a cure. Anxiety is a Mental illness and the docs know so little about the brain so they dont really know what to do with us.
Kendo is right there are people coping with far worse things I know a lady who has recently had cancer they´ve taken it out and god willing its not coming back she´s happy as larry and feels that shes been given a second chance at life - no anxiety at all.
What we go through is very real but and it is a cruel illness next 35 years with crippling anxiety or only living for the next 12 years anxiety free and happy at this point in time I think I know which one I choose. Sorry if that offends anyone but everyone deserves the right to some happyness surely?
I´m sure we all agree that if it was a simple as just pulling yourself together and thinking about all those people coping with far worse everyday then we would have found the magic cure a long time ago nobody would want to suffer like this or indeed wish any suffering onb anyone else.
I think anxiety can be overcome I dont beleive for a minute that we were born this way some people are just more succesptable to its effects than others - with time I have to believe that I will learn to at least control it and lead some kind of normal life again - people can and do recover everyday - but I tell you one thing they aint doing it using the Linden Method or a magic wristband it comes from within and all those magic cures that promise to help can at best only help you to tap into your own self beleif and motivation to get better (here I go again I never practive what I preach!) but if I keep saying it for long enough I might just beleive it.:wacko:
I do understand where you are coming from. After 30 years of suffering from this disorder, it is understandable that anyone would feel beaten down by it.
I'm not saying you or Elspeth are wrong in feeling the way you do, I'm just saying that I don't feel that way - yet. Sure, there are days when it all feels hopeless - that's when I think of those other people who struggle with their hardships, and it gives me strength to fight on.
Perhaps in 30 years time, when the day comes that I do feel it's beaten me, I'll get a bottle of JD, all my saved-up diazepam, and end it all. Until then, I'll keep on fighting it.
i feel your pain and understand exactly where you are coming from. 13 years with a chronic anxiety disorder that has and still is ruining my life. i cant even go the dentist or fly amongst thousands of other things. but i REFUSE to give up hope that one day this will go. so chin up and fight another day. because my life feels like a fight with myself everyday. i feel that i just exist i dont live.
regards
rob:yesyes:
keepemlaughing
30-09-08, 23:06
So you won't die from anxiety or depression. And there is a possibility of beating the odds and recovering from a panic disorder. So I wouldn't ever compare my illness with a cancer victim, or diabetic. Its all a matter of mind. If you don't mind, it don't matter.
Blessings,
Sheryl
Kendo, its ok...rant over for me. I know what you are trying to say also. I dont agree with it, but each to their own yes?
Take care
Cathy xxx
i think your right sheryl but i kinda agree with him about how hard on your life it can be. but as you well know when your having a bad day everything seems alot worse and no one else could understand your suffering. but we can and hes not alone is he.
thanks for the welcome replt
rob
Hi all
I believe it is impossible to compare one persons experience of any illness, be it mental or physical, with another's. By adopting an attitude of ' is it as bad as...' you completely miss the point and diminish any individuals experience of what they suffer from., indeed you diminish that individual. Each individual will either develop skills to cope and draw on a variety of inner resources, or conversely may lack either. And therein, and it is my belief, lies the difference between those who are either able to overcome their conditions, manage them or always be at the mercy of them.
For some it truely is the worst and most awful thing because that is THEIR reality, that is THEIR experience.
To compare is to judge. Perhaps the original post was a rhetorical question. Rather than seeking to reply to it, perhaps we really ought to be looking beyond that and extending understanding towards someone who is struggling acutely at the moment, who has felt like this for many years. Someone who sees no hope. How do you respond to that? Can you respond? Do you want to? How do you extend hope and have it accepted and believed by someone who clearly considers all hope to be gone?
I genuinely wish I new the answers.
Pooh xxxx
:D :D :D cathy i loved that if the" float through" worked we would all be floating still that made me laugh:roflmao:
lee xxx
Veronica H
01-10-08, 08:52
hi Leeg and Cathy
I am having some success with floating through, it is working for me and many others, so maye it is worth not making fun of other peoples efforts right now or we might start another heated debate off....peace everyone.
Veronica
hi veronica you misunderstood i was not makin fun of anyone's success if it works for you great !!!what i was saying was yes i understand when people say just float through its not as easy as it sounds its almost like they are saying "all u need to do is float" well really is it all we need to do??? like our illness is so easy to overcome which its not!!!!and evryone is entitled to an opinion!
lee xx
Veronica H
01-10-08, 09:49
Hi Leeg Cathy:unsure:I think it was this which put me on the defensive - And if anyone dares to tell me to fu**ing 'float through it' one more time i'll hunt them down and kil them.
Ok? Ok....:noangel: I love you all honest xxxxx......a bit like being hit with a cricket bat and then stroked by a furry bunny afterwards!....This illness makes us all oversensitive at times....just ignore me. :)
Veronica
i think it was just a bit of humour which we all need from time to time if we cant laugh at ourselves now an again we are in trouble hope your feeling better
lee xx
And if anyone dares to tell me to fu**ing 'float through it' one more time i'll hunt them down and kil them.
Ok? Ok....:noangel: I love you all honest xxxxx
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hvAmTkJmT5c
My name is Kendo :D Take my hand... :D
Kendo
"The Floaters" - I laughed, they've been reading Claire Weekes as well!!!!
What interesting replies - really excellent. I just loved Cathy V's statement about floating. Cathy I'm with you mate - the only way I'd float is with a load of helium balloons attached to my head!!
Hey Kendo: Can you say something else to get us all going !!!!!! LOL
:) i think its important to remember and to point out to anyone who is depressed, that your life is being robbed by depression. anxiety and panic are symptoms of depression and anybody would be depressed feeling anxious to the extent that we do.
this is what ive learnt - if you find yourself again or even for the first time - then you have all the power in the world to overcome depression.to do this you have to be kind to yourself!!!!
i have suffered numerous bouts since age 14 - i am now 36, and i can honestly say that the only way i have got better is to be my own friend. and i have recently come to see that mindfulness is the perfect way to do this, because i have spent so much time in my head either in the past going over sad times, or else in the future worry8ing about how bad m,y life could be, all this while hating myself and beating mysel;f up verbally for not being something that i cant possilbly be. if you are depressed you have to find ways of beating it so tha tyou can start to live your life again - it is never ever too late for anyone to stop feeling bad, like i said we have the power inside us to do this already. i recommend for everyone 'the mindful way through depression' by john kabat zin & co (its written by 4 ppl)from amazon
depression is a killer -literally and metaphorically - dont let it ruin your life - find anyway possible to releive yourself of it and you will be able to feel okay, i know because i have.
milly jones
01-10-08, 17:59
hi els
ur original point has got a bit lost in all this debate
how are u hunny?
bet u didnt realise ur post would cause such discussion, lol
love to u hun
milly xxx
xBettyBoopx
01-10-08, 19:14
Thanks to all who took the time to read my post & who realised that what I wrote (typed) is how I feel & is my understanding of life.
Milly - Yes my post has got lost, which makes me realise that I should just suffer in silence.
Els
Veronica H
01-10-08, 19:32
:D Hi Kendo
Nowthat did cheer me up!
Veronica
Veronica H
01-10-08, 19:55
Thanks so much Emma. I have Citalopram 10mg, a low dose to keep the depression off, but I really would like to get to grips with it and come off of the meds eventually. I will order this book, I am glad you found something that worked for you.
Veronica
Veronica H
01-10-08, 19:56
hi Elspeth
:bighug1: I hope you are feeling a bit better today.
Veronica
milly jones
01-10-08, 20:00
els
u are always with friends here at nmp
no one should suffer in silence
pls keep in touch
pooh has started a thread for u
pls read it
hugs els
mill xx
ELSPETH
Your post certainly hasn't got lost for me anyway. The way you wrote it was marvellous, the stuff you said about different people suffering different illnesses etc etc. It was superb. I think what you said was what a lot of us fear - never getting better.
On a different note:
Emmas - I think we have spoken before: I obviously don't study these things enough because I have the mindfulness meditation cd's and the book and I still aint rid of anxiety or depression. Must be me lol.
Love to all especially Elspeth whose post started a very interesting debate.
I second that.. Take care elspeth :flowers: xxxx
Yvonne
I agree totaly about the mindfullness and meditation bit, I´ve tried the lot and they do nothing for me - to me being mindfull just focuses my thoughts on the anxiety - I´m sure we´ve all heard the start of most relaxation cd´s ¨begin by focusing on your breathing take a deep breath and relax¨
Do the people who make these things realise that its the getting your breath and relaxing thats the problem when you have anxiety and its the last thing you want to focus on. I wonder if these people have ever actually experienced panic themselves? Not knocking it completely I´ve just been listening to the paul mckenna CD and it certainly relaxed me but thats about it until he starts overlapping his voice with different phrases which just freaks me out!!!
Off topic I know sorry X
I would just like to add i used a hypnotherapy disc six yrs ago and it worked wonders it got me out the house after six yrs i was completely anx free well this time its not working the same tape and now ive tried others but its not working why is this i wonder? well i dont know maybe it was last time i had therapy (expensive) an not this time can we really do this on our own?
ramble over:D
lee xxx
Hi El,
Don'y suffer in silence hun we are here for u x
I understand how hard it is I feel the same ..my life is passing by amongst this anx and depression xx
How are you feeling 2 day hun
Pls let us know xxxx
big big hugs x
Titchjd xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Without the wish to continue with any bad feelings this thread might have caused, id like to go back to the first reply made by me to kendo, his comments being the reason for the 'debate' that then followed.
In this mornings daily mail, i read about the chat show host Trisha Goddards recent recovery from cancer. She talked about coming to the end of her treatment and said she was now cancer-free. She then went on to say that cancer wasnt the worst thing she'd ever faced...that was depresssion. She says of this, "No-one brings you flowers, and the doctors can't operate and tell you you are now free of the disease."
I jut wanted to add this before this thread disappears, to say that its only what Elspeth was trying to say, and also the point that was being made by those of us who understood it.
Best wishes
Cathy xxx
Hi Folks
I think we have 2 understand that there is no black and white,right or wrong when it comes 2 either Opinions or Illness....they are both a very individual things and r very personnal 2 the person .
So big big hugs are sent 2 Els and respect given 2 her for both her Opinion and her struggle with her illness xx
Im sure no-1 has ment 2 upset any1 as we are all here 4 each other x
so big hugs 2 all NMP members xxx
Titchjd xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Without the wish to continue with any bad feelings this thread might have caused, id like to go back to the first reply made by me to kendo, his comments being the reason for the 'debate' that then followed.
In this mornings daily mail, i read about the chat show host Trisha Goddards recent recovery from cancer. She talked about coming to the end of her treatment and said she was now cancer-free. She then went on to say that cancer wasnt the worst thing she'd ever faced...that was depresssion. She says of this, "No-one brings you flowers, and the doctors can't operate and tell you you are now free of the disease."
I jut wanted to add this before this thread disappears, to say that its only what Elspeth was trying to say, and also the point that was being made by those of us who understood it.
Best wishes
Cathy xxx
As I said before, I understand that perspective, however I personally just don't agree. We all know how difficult it is to live with this "invisible" illness that other people just don't understand. I guess I was trying to put the perspective of "there ARE worse things" and "we shouldn't just give in", which is what helps me find the strength to get out of bed each day.
As far as my comments being the reason for any debate, the title of the thread is "Is this the cruelest disorder?" which I took as a question, and thought people could reply with their own thoughts. Even the OP stated "it is my personal opinion & I expect that a lot of people will disagree, that's ok we all have our opinions", so I don't know why there should be any "bad feeling" just because we happen to disagree. Or is it ok for some people to post their opinions, but not ok for anyone to state an alternative opinion? I certainly didn't resort to any name calling or accusing anyone of being cruel for stating a different opinion.
Perhaps we shouldn't voice any 'differing opinions' or alternative perspectives if people are going to get so defensive, and instead just post the standard rhetorical "hugs & best wishes" reply to every post.
Hi Kendo ...
I personnally respect evey1s opinion and have had read some good advice off you so don't stop posting your opinions m8 as sometimes seeing others opinions can actually help and give us a different way of seeing things .
wud say big hugs but not sure ud want one haha (joke )
Hugs
Titchjd xxx
hiya i have to agree with titch that kendo i enjoy reading your posts and i agree that everyone has a different opinion, there are no right or wrongs.
Cathy i read that article on trisha too, she is a very brave lady i really admire her, i have read quite abit on her life.
hugs to you elspeth, i hope u are feeling alittle better hun xxxxxxxx
everyone is entitled to there own opinion isnt the purpose of this site to get other people's point of view i thought so its good to look at it from all sides
lee xx
HMMMM
I personally swing both ways on this one. When i first started reading this i have to say i agreed with Kendo. Having nursed acutely/chronically ill patients for some time i have seen the devastating effect a heart attack or emphysema has on someone (my mother) & how pain & suffering takes people. Struggling everyday with the worry of weather your gonna have another heeart attack or weather a chest infection will kill me off this time (mum) is bloody hard, they are physical symptoms-PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS THAT KILL PEOPLE.....
However on the same token i have recently (may) suffered from HA following a mysterious illness, in time this has led to depression- I have been that upset at how i am now anxious about my health it has effected my mood & thus has caused depression.
Until this point i never fully understood how bad a mental disorder is...it is heart braking & so frustrating. Everday is different & i often wonder when i go to bed at night if im gonna wake up in the morning without this low mood & worry over my health however i have contol over that noone else...
I can see Elspeth point of view totally as if i could have one wish it would be to get rid of this as it makes me so sad!!
However those poor people who everday suffer with acute/chronic conditions is battling something completly different.
Each person has there own personal views on what is worse to have, and that is a healthy opinion too have!!
I really dont think any of us can comment on what is worse if we have never suffered with it (untill we have actually been there ourselves).
Each problem will have a devastating effect to each person individually.
"Personally I think that anxiety & panic are the cruelest of disorders."
Are you saying that you think anxiety/panic is worse than kids with cancer, leukemia, or someone with diabetes leading to having their legs amputated, etc.
I think anxiety tends to make people very self-absorbed and focused on themselves, after all there are far worse things.
As bad as anxiety is, if you are determined enough, with the right treatment, it is possible to get over it enough to lead a fairly 'normal' life.
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"I also think that taking meds prolongs it all too."
This is something I have been thinking about too.
Try your best not to put disease in the same bracket as disorder because the original post did not state this and it is simply unfair.
But for the sake of it i will go up against your argumentative view and say that arguably it could be. Kids with cancer is unfortunate and devastating to families as well as the individual involved, however there are many common traits associated with panic disorder such as:
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Life is (possibly) cut short with cancer if not found in time and dependant on area(s) affected:
VS
33% of people with panic disorder commit suicide, this is life cut short and un-filled as well as devastating to family and friends.
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Cancer can be in either of 2 forms:
Malignant - usually untreatable and bed ridden until the inevitable at latter stages.
Benign (benine) - can usually be sucessfully removed with the slight possibility of return:
VS
Feeling like a prisoner in your own body with an illness nobody can see unless your clutching your chest, go pale or simply start rapid breathing. Medications are thrown at you like hail stones because to quote all my "experts" "panic disorder is an art not a science".
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Constantly feeling like your going to die or going crazy should not and can not be cast aside as though it isnt both terrifying and awfull in its own right. Personally i agree with most of your original statement but be carefull about what you say as i found your post more offensive than the original post and i have had friends and family lost through many different means. The lady bares her soul and insecurities, thats admirable not self-absorbed.
Personally im 5 years into panic disorder / anxiety disorder so to the 30 year veterans you give me hope that even though our lives are dictated by unknown triggers that restrict our movements that affect our family and friends that we are indeed fighting the great fight.
The fight to which there is no cure, only better days and maybe, just maybe, the chance to live half the life we could have without this debilitating, pride robbing disorder.
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IM SORRY TO ANYONE WHO TAKES THIS OUT OF CONTEXT AND EXPRESS MY VIEWS SOLEY BASED ON MY HARDSHIPS AND YEARS OF TRYING RID MYSELF OF SOMETHING THAT IM YET TO FULLY UNDERSTAND.
CONS
xBettyBoopx
02-10-08, 18:53
This 'debate' could go on for a long time, but it didn't start off as one.
Thanks to all who have posted. Now I will tell you some things that I never put in my original post because I didn't feel it necessary, unfortunately now I feel it is.
I also have physcial illnesses, I have scoliosis of the spine (s-shaped spine) which causes me back problems & has for 10 years now. I also have chronic fatigue, and worst of all chronic lung disease (emphysema), which will kill me I know.
Maybe this information will help people to realise just what I'm up against.
Els
milly jones
02-10-08, 19:26
all i know els is that anxiety and depression nearly took my life away from my family, and it is a continuing battle every day
milly x
So sorry els, i know thats a common response but what more can i say.
Hope you have a good support network around you,
CONS
Granny Primark
02-10-08, 19:36
Elspeth no wonder you are suffering so badly.
Ive looked after people with emphysema and seen what a terrible disease it is.
None of us wants sympathy for our health problems,
whether they be physical or mental. The only thing I want is a little understanding.
I see people who cope really well with their problems but I also see others really struggle.
I personally cope with being ill physically better than I do with stress.
Kendo as regards the jibe about hugs. Well sometimes a hug whether it be physical or a hug posted on here does more good than taking an antidepressant.
I cant help feeling that you have a lot of anger in you.
We are all here to support each other. Thats what nic set the site up for.
It's actually a fact from research that panic disorder is one of the five worst psychiatric disorders.
It's a matter of perspective.
People with this condition are more prone to suicide, drug abuse, social trouble, work trouble and personal pain.
However, there are many criteria that panic disorder scores on more mildy, like social cost (it's for example more costly for the society if a person are schizofrenic because they often demand more intensive care - even though most people with panic use more health services than other people in general), cure (it's actually curable for 85% if right treatment, cognitive therapy + ssri's are initiated), work ability (most people with the disorder can work to some degreee) and life expectancy (people with panic disorder live about 5 years less than other people, but people with f.ex schizofrenia may live 15 years shorter).
It's not easy to quantify pain. For some people the dreadfull panic attacks are very painfull, but for others the tiredness from compulsive actions, the terror from intrusive thoughts related to trauma, or sadness from major depression can be just as terrible I guess.
I have panic disorder myself, and often dream of having a phobia instead. A phobia of spiders or something could be a nice change :)
My worst period was when I got paranoid from lack of b12 . Beeing paranoid without beeing psychotic was just the most painfull experience I've ever had. It was two months of pure terror, hiding beeing my drapes and watching the streets for possible threats.
There are of course physical illness too. There are no research criterias for comparing, and I really don't think one should either. The pain experience is individual, wether it's physical or emotional. It's just impossible to quantify pain.
We are all here to support each other. Thats what nic set the site up for.
Except if anyone dares have the opinion that there are worse/crueller things than having depression/anxiety, apparently
I try to make the point that there are worse things (in my opinion) and for daring to suggest such an outrageous thing, I get attacked, and called cruel & argumentive.
Support comes in different ways. Sympathising & giving hugs is one way. Offering a different view/perspective, pointing out that there are others worse off, and encouragement to count ones blessings, is another way.
I understand there are people to whom depression is the worst thing to ever happen, people that depression affects more than having any fatal disease, for many reasons. People who can't see beyond their own problems. I understand that can be a significant part of this disorder for many people.
Pardon me for not feeling the same way. Pardon me for trying to stay positive, for trying to keep my depression under control, & NOT let this disorder take over & ruin my life. As bad as I feel some days, I count myself lucky to not have cancer, heart disease, diabetes, or any other fatal illness. It is within each of our power to fight this disorder, if we choose to.
I'm not going to be made to feel guilty for that. If that means I am not welcome on this website, then so be it.
Granny Primark
02-10-08, 20:21
Every day I count my blessings.
I was a carer to both the elderly and the mentally ill for 20 years.
Im really glad your a fighter kendo and I really hope you beat this illness.
I hope I do too, but I will never look down on the people that cant beat this illness.
Each of us have different thresholds. Whether they been pain thresholds or mental thresholds.
I have respect for other peoples opinions. It wouldnt do for us all to think the same.
I believe our healthcare system has alot to blame for this.
They fob us off with stupid meds, tell us its in our heads...........like we don't know that already. They make out its not an illness.
I have looked after people dying, i have looked after people with cancer, dementia and i have worked in the psychriatric field.
Its all bad, its all horrible and its all an illness......... whether it be physical or mental.......... it can all be crippling to the individual.
And just maybe if our healthcare system really knew what it feels like to be at rock bottom, or not being able to leave the house, or not being able to socialise with people, they would then give us the understanding that we need, and the likes of families and friends would actually understand too that it is an illness that we suffer.
I nearly lost my life in childbirth, and the most awful thought that crossed my mind at the time was............. i won't have to suffer or fight with this anx anymore........ selfish of me as i would be leaving my three children behind, but that is the extent of how bad we suffer at times.
So hugs to all who suffer......... whether it be physically or mentally, its all hard.
di xx
milly jones
02-10-08, 20:57
please lets leave this
we all have different viewpoints and this thread was started cos els needed support
we are all valued on nmp whatever our opinions
everyone is welcomed and supported
so come on guys lets pull together and close this debate please?
mill xxx
I agree Milly
Kendo u are so welcome on this site and would be missed if u werent .....
Don't ever feel u arent welcome .
we would live in a boring world if we all thought the same we are all individuals with our own unique opinion xx
so lets all pull together and learn from each other xx
Titchjd x
yes lets do as titch and milly suggested, theres no rights or wrongs here and i can see this from both sides, i can see kendos point of view and agree, but i also see the other side to this and we are all entitled to write that down on here.
i personally dont mind these kind of threads cos everyone is entitled to have there different opinions and should not be made to feel bad because of it.
like titch and milly says lets all remember that wot ever we think, we are actually here to get help and to help others.
Hey Kendo,
I totaly get what your saying 100%. And I do agree with you, if im allowed to say that without getting slaughtered lol .
I also agree anxiety is a terrible cruel illness to live with. But i can see you have tried to explain that also, hope you stay around, i for one respect your opinion, and look forward to reading your posts and advice.
My opinion would be that every one should move on from this now, its not really what it originaly started out to be is it !
:winks: Just my opinion
I think it is the worst condition a person can ever have.no matter how many times you come to terms with it and face it it will always come back worse.there is no medication specialy for it just drugs to make us so tired we dont even care.it may make us self centerd somtimes but that is only becuase during a panic attak we fear for our lives and we no we cant stop it.
personaly i say have beaten this but i have not.every day i find myself scared for my future as i feel i will have no life to lead,no job as i have had to leave my education behind if i had not i dont no what i would of done with all the stress.perhaps im never to find a partner as i find it almost imposible to talk to a person i dont no.this disorder is so stupid that i find myself having a panic attak as i write this even though its about my own life!ill have to stop now.and i dont this to offend anyone its simply about my life and how i feel so dont even dare tell me im wrong.
Hey charli...chin up, stay strong. You're gonna be a songwriter! you'll get your life back little'un, you will. Youve done so well recently and we're all proud of you....xxxx
WOW,
Have been so absorbed by this debate I've totally forgot to be anxious, I agree with everyone and its not a competition....... although if it was (no only joking) sh@t these probes keep falling off my head....love you all
Going slightly insane
Ianxxxxxxxxxx
for me yes, its the cruellest of disorders but then its the only ill health i have had to face - thankfully i have had no physical ailments that have required surgery or treatment so therefore i have nothing to measure it against. I only know and feel what i am experiencing now and my cross to bear seems to be mental ill health. I dont for one minute think i will dodge physical ill health and until then i wont make any judgement on how life saving surgery could be better or worse than dealing with daily anxiety.
To sum up, quite simply we are all ill in various strains, yes the physical ailments are more visual and are afforded an expected "healing" time.
I would never prefer to suffer one or the other, what am dealing with right now is very real to me even if i dont have the bandage or physical wounds.
Hi everyone:)
In answer to the question 'Is this the cruelest disorder?' personally speaking No. I have been lucky to have recovered from severe depression brought on by PTSD and am now recovering from a breakdown. I also suffer from chronic pain due to extensive abdominal adhesions and like anxiety you can't see it. I believe anything that causes a person suffering, to them it can be the worse thing imaginable. For me personally, I am lucky enough to be able to think like Kendo, 'it could be worse,' or 'there is always someone worse off than you'.
I am also lucky in that I can take pleasure in the things that I have, two kids, 5 grandkids, a loving hubby, our truly nutty dog, my brothers, sisters and their families etc. Yes there are things I would love to be able to do that at the moment I can't and yes there have been and there are times when the pain racks me and the morphine doesn't work that I think God I would love one hour, one day without it, but I have it...so I try most of the time to adapt my life to it and most importantly enjoy what I do have and what I can do.:yesyes: I am 56 now and have realised over the years, it really doesn't matter who does or does not understand what you are going through...it doesn't change the suffering, it's how you yourself deals with it that matters.
:hugs: :hugs: to all
Diane
'Remember, your imagination is always much worse than the reality'
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