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ConfusedByLife
05-10-08, 22:27
On Friday I rang up for my repeat prescription as usual and was told that these are highly addictive and that I wasn't getting anymore, just like that! I been taking them for about 5 years now, i'd say about 4x 2mg tablets a week, now i'm a bit freaked cuz I have none left and am considering my options. I take them for social occaisions and I can't remember the last time I went to a big social event without them. I don't understand how the doc can just stop them like that so I'll have to make an appointment and find out. Maybe a different doctor will have different opinion. Either that or I have to buy them from the USA but i've started enquiring already and it doesn't seem very easy. I don't know what to do really! Any advice? I don't feel im ready to go cold turkey, and I think a fairer and better way would be to cut them out gradually.

Dazza
05-10-08, 23:03
Not sure what to advise...I'm just as surprised as you are that they've just cut off your supply without weening you off after being on them for 5 years.

I was told by a doctor recently (when they gave me some Diazepam) that they would not give it to me for more than 4 weeks.

I'm sure that someone will have ideas as to what you can do. Failing that, maybe look at herbal alternatives like Valerian as a 'plan B'? just a thought.

decca
05-10-08, 23:51
Sudden withdrawal isn't a good idea with these meds,I'm very surprised that they have done this to you and can only assume that there's been a mistake or misunderstanding somewhere along the line.
If I were you I'd make an urgent appointment to see the Doc. Explain your fears and agree to go on a gradual withdrawal plan.
Don't buy them on the internet , there's some dodgy stuff out there.You must go to the Doc. as soon as possible.

Good luck,
Decca

london
06-10-08, 00:05
On Friday I rang up for my repeat prescription as usual and was told that these are highly addictive and that I wasn't getting anymore, just like that! I been taking them for about 5 years now, i'd say about 4x 2mg tablets a week, now i'm a bit freaked cuz I have none left and am considering my options. I take them for social occaisions and I can't remember the last time I went to a big social event without them. I don't understand how the doc can just stop them like that so I'll have to make an appointment and find out. Maybe a different doctor will have different opinion. Either that or I have to buy them from the USA but i've started enquiring already and it doesn't seem very easy. I don't know what to do really! Any advice? I don't feel im ready to go cold turkey, and I think a fairer and better way would be to cut them out gradually.


hes a dope you need to report him ,,,, he should cut you down not just stop them ,,,,even in there drug book the BNF says to cut down not stop

Alabasterlyn
06-10-08, 12:23
I don't think you can sue a GP for prescribing benzos now. There was a time quite a number of years ago when some patients did start to sue their GP's, but for some reason they managed to wangle their way out of being sued. There is a lot of info on the benzo org website about this kind of thing that you may find interesting.

I do agree it's very bad of your GP to just stop your meds after this length of time. Hopefully as you have only been taking them on as 'as needed basis' you won't have any withdrawal symptoms, but it obviously doesn't address the fact that you are finding these meds helpful and need something to help you still.

I've taken benzos since about 1980 and although I can now only get a repeat prescription for 28 days instead of the previous 56 days, I don't have any problems getting them. My GP informed that there are now new guidelines for prescibing benzos and one of them is that they will only prescribe for 28 days. Having said that my mother is also on benzos and at the age of 85 is still getting a regular repeat for 56 days!

I would go back to the surgery and make it clear that you are not misusing the meds and are in fact taking them only when you need to. I'm sorry your GP is putting you through unnecessary extra stress like this and hope you get it sorted out soon :hugs:

decca
06-10-08, 13:18
Hi Lyn,
When did the guidelines change ?
My repeat is for 56 and my last repeat was in August.

Decca.

kazzie
06-10-08, 13:29
Hmmmmm Im confused:wacko:

I have had 5mg diazipam tabs on a take if you need basis for nearly 2 years

I spose I used to take maybe 1 a week but since Ive gone back to work its more like 2 or 3 a week, my GP wont put them on repeat so each time I run out I have to write in and ask for some

I dont feel Im addicted to them but some situations would be uncomfy without them

Hope my GP dosent pull the plug:lac:

I should go back to your GP Con and explain the problem:hugs:

Kaz x x x:hugs:

CONS
06-10-08, 13:37
Hi,

"I dont feel Im addicted to them but some situations would be uncomfy without them"

placebo effect maybe?

Reason i say this is my only med is Diazepam and has been for 3 years:

5mg 6 times a day as required

Someone above mentioned blunder, yup my doc is in deep, he probably wants me get better as much as i do.

Back on topic,

confusedbylife your already on a low dosage and to a degree with 5 years under your belt you would hardly be feeling the effects anyway. I can take mine in 4's and barely feel a thing and i consider myself in touch with my bodies reactions to most things.

The low dosage that you have taken are stepping stones just to ease the nerves, which you know right?, cold turkey is a strong term for such a low dosage but maybe take half of what your weekly input is and that would help to ween you off them.

As of yet i have never heard of withdrawl symptoms from diazepam aka Valium.

CONS

Paddington
06-10-08, 13:51
I wondered why my script had dropped to 28 from 56!!Thanks for the info guys!Luckily i dont need the 56 as i used to:yesyes: I too could take multiple tabs..9 at times:ohmy: ..but now 2 and i am out of it!I think the body adjusts to the need of the medication..if i dont take them i never have side effects.Tho i like to know i have them in my bag if i go anywhere!
I think your dr needs to be told it is unfair to just stop your medication,unethical too.Go and see the Dr and tell him you are not addicted as such just need the reasurance of knowing you have them there should you need them.Good Luck.Love Paddie.xxxxxxxx

decca
06-10-08, 17:47
"As of yet i have never heard of withdrawl symptoms from diazepam aka Valium."

CONS

Have you read the Ashton manual
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha01.htm

or read some of the stories on here -
http://www.benzo.org.uk/

You may well change your mind.

Decca.

labridges7
06-10-08, 19:39
definately go back to the doctor. I had a similar situation a few years ago. Try to see a different doctor and explain EVERYTHING. You could ask if any of the doctors have an expertise in panic/anxiety as they will understand more.

I dont know why they would stop them but i know that its not nice. If you really have a bad epissode and need them then you can always go to A and E which does take longer I know but you will get the help you need at least for that particular attack.

Take care xxxx

Laura

nickieb
06-10-08, 20:16
Con

Hun your Dr should never have prescribed Diaz for that long...that is very unprofessional & extremely lazy of him to do so.
As you are taking so little i would personally try & come up with an alternative to diazepam. Maybe a herbal supplement or propanolol.

There will be a message on your notes with a warning about not re prescribing them so for your GP to have ignored this for so long is actually a breach of his role. They are used as a temporary measure & like you said extremely addictive...they should be avoided at all costs.

Con try & speak with your GP about an alternative & see how you get on for a while without them xxx

CONS
06-10-08, 21:37
Have you read the Ashton manual
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha01.htm

or read some of the stories on here -
http://www.benzo.org.uk/

You may well change your mind.

Decca.

If its in my mind it wont or doesn't i will stick to my original thoughts.

Look hard enough and you can find anything.

CONS

EDIT: in time i will get rid of all meds but for now it suits me ok, sorry Decca for coming out so strong but i believe the weaker the dosage the weaker the withdrawl, although that in itself is dependant on the person.

decca
06-10-08, 22:22
Hi Cons,
A few months ago I would have agreed with you but since then I've met a lot of people that were on low therapeutic dose that have suffered severe withdrawal when they've tried to come off of Diaz. incorrectly.
I've been on 2mg Diaz. since Feb. and tried withdrawing by 25% cuts 6 weeks ago and it wasn't very nice, so I had to reinstate and now that I'm stable again have started reducing by 10% cuts.

Decca.

ConfusedByLife
06-10-08, 23:17
Thanks guys> I really appreciate the advice and am shocked how many replys already lol. I made an appointment with doc for 15th Oct (I think I can last that long). Its complicated but in my doctors surgery for repeat prescriptions some docs have different ideas. If I go to my own doc I think he'll give me more. It has woken me up a bit to the fact though that I may be more addicted than I thought as the panic of being without them has hit me. I know I should really come off them but cutting down seems the best option. I know alot of doctors are refusing to re-prescribe diazepam though so until I go back I don't know. I don't know if I can do without but maybe i'd learn to - I dunno. My whole surgery is up the left. Seems different doctors sing off different hymm sheets. See what happens anyway. Cheers again

dianes
06-10-08, 23:17
Hi,

I would agree with some of the posts advising you to see your GP to discuss coming off the diazepam. Also, if you have a panic episode before hand and feel you do need them urgently go to A.E.

Cons: I was horrified to read your comments about diazepam. Believe me, I was given diazepam over 20 years ago, and was never told how addictive they were. I was prescribed 10mg daily, when I suffered with severe depression due to PTSD they kept increasing the dose. To cut a long story short I was on diazepam for 18 years and taking 55mg daily with all the increases. I had been undergoing 4years of specialist PTSD councelling when my councellor told me I had to wean completely off the diazepam before I could complete the last part of the therapy or it wouldn't be effective.

Any physciatrist will tell you that diazepam affects the receptors of the brain. Which basically means, anything that happens to you while taking this drug doesn't register fully in your brain, as the receptors are 'dulled'. that is why it is a waste of money for anyone taking diazepam on a daily basis, undergoing hypnotherapy. I was also horrified to be told that no-one knows what damage is caused in the brain, or what the long term side effects are to someone taking diazepam over a long term period of time as it was only ever designed to be taken short term.

I was advised by my doctors to keep on it as I had been taking it for so long.
But thank god, with the help and close supervision of a wonderful physciatrist I managed to wean off it completely. It took me just over 2 years and to say the withdrawal was truly horrendous is an understatement. I went on to complete my therapy and again thank god it was successful. I personally believe this drug should be banned as it ruins lives and GP's still prescribe it to easily. The physciatrist who helped me off it says he only uses it for really acute cases where his patients are hospitalised and even then only for a max of 1 week. He believes that you do no favours to patients by giving them this drug as sooner or later they have to stop taking it and they end up becoming more anxious as they stress that they won't be able to manage their anxiety without it.

Sorry for the long reply, as I said, I was horrified at the ignorance about this drug. GP' should explain fully before prescribing or withdrawing this drug.

:hugs: :hugs: to you all.

Diane
'Your imagination is always much worse than the reality'

I managed to wean

CONS
07-10-08, 09:06
18 years is along time be taking any medication of 55mg a day,

I pick and choose when i take mine and rarely ever take 6 a day, sometimes i go days without depending on how i feel. Reading your post made me feel nautious but to be honest when i came off Mirtazapine and the withdrawl from that NOTHING can compare to those feelings.

I used to take drugs regularily, i mean paid on the street drugs.

Everything except crack and heroine ive tried so i know about side effects and withdrawl symptoms.

Havnt touched anything like that for 3 years now.

Thats why i can easily talk about diazepam, try to keep in context that even in my original post i said about "weening" off them. My information may have been not apropriate BUT EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT.

Thats all there is to it,

although now im going make a constant effort to rid myself of these sooner from reading Dianes post, litterally made me feel anxious reading it.

CONS

EDIT: great a panic attack at 9am in the morning and too scared take the 1 thing that reassures me.

Mikke
10-10-08, 03:17
Sounds crazy.
Change GP or try to get oxazepam for a period, it's considerably less addictive but helps a lot.

decca
10-10-08, 13:06
Sorry Mikke,
I disagree - Oxazepam is a short acting Benzo with a half life of only 4 to 15 hours with a dosage requirement twice that of Diazepam and would certainly make withdrawal a lot harder.
See here -
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm#s10

Decca.

Oceanblue
10-10-08, 13:55
Hi,

"I dont feel Im addicted to them but some situations would be uncomfy without them"

placebo effect maybe?

Reason i say this is my only med is Diazepam and has been for 3 years:

5mg 6 times a day as required

Someone above mentioned blunder, yup my doc is in deep, he probably wants me get better as much as i do.

Back on topic,

confusedbylife your already on a low dosage and to a degree with 5 years under your belt you would hardly be feeling the effects anyway. I can take mine in 4's and barely feel a thing and i consider myself in touch with my bodies reactions to most things.

The low dosage that you have taken are stepping stones just to ease the nerves, which you know right?, cold turkey is a strong term for such a low dosage but maybe take half of what your weekly input is and that would help to ween you off them.

As of yet i have never heard of withdrawl symptoms from diazepam aka Valium.

CONS

Hi,

I've quoted CONS first post, as I saw no problem. Infact, I would say that I agree with what he has written, other than the last sentence:winks:. My view would be that -(Withdrawal symptoms/Side effects apply to higher dosages, or say 2mg taken on a much regular basis) Not just 2mg - 4x a week as Confusedwithlife had stated.

CONS, I think you've explained your thoughts clearly from what I've read, I feel that some people have taken your post out of context, and haven't quite understood your opinion.


Confusedwithlife mentioned that he had been taking 2mg for five years (roughly 4x a week), and I would agree that with such a small dosage for this lengthly amount of time really isn't enough to go 'Cold Turkey'. I would agree that taking this dosage for 5yrs, the body would surely be quite immune to the med, and that he could well be reacting by a placebo effect.

Anyway, whatever the case, ...Confusedwithlife I hope you're able to sort something out.

I feel it's probably best to make an appointment with your doc or maybe try and call and discuss how you feel about the whole thing.

Good luck.

decca
10-10-08, 17:10
So are we saying that it's OK to take low doses of Diazepam indefinitely ?

Decca.

Oceanblue
10-10-08, 18:47
So are we saying that it's OK to take low doses of Diazepam indefinitely ?

Decca.


Hi Decca,


Not quite sure who you are referring to. I wouldn't agree that taking low doses of Diazepam indefinitely is a good idea, more so because it would be totally unnecessary. I believe it should only be given to a patient for short term use only, whatever the dosage.

I find it insane, that Confusedbylife's doc had repetitively repeated his prescription for 5yrs ! Seem's very strange and most definately wrong I would say, doesn't sound very professional to me.


:flowers:

decca
10-10-08, 19:14
Thanks Katie,
Yes I agree - It's just that I couldn't quite understand what you were saying in your last post.

Cheers
Decca.

Oceanblue
10-10-08, 19:16
No worries Decca :) , I'm certainly not the best at explaining things.

:flowers:

decca
10-10-08, 19:23
I'm the same - It's all down to anxiety hun, mind you I am a doddery old twit as well, lol.

Decca.

Mikke
10-10-08, 21:45
Hi there decca.

I think you could ask any doctor if he preferred his patient coming off diazepam or oxazepam and he would say oxazepam, regardless of half life there is time of absorbtion in the blood which is just as important.
Diazepam acts within 15-30 minutes beacuse of ity's very specific chemical structure, and in that matter it doesn't differ much from most illegal drugs, oxazepam on the other hand acts within about 2 hours, that's why drug dealers don't earn a lot of money selling them on the streets either.

When it comes to withdrawal it's more than one factor to be considered. Half life is one thing, acting time another.

decca
10-10-08, 22:09
Yes I agree with the pharmacokinetics but when it comes to Benzo tolerance and withdrawal it's always easier to withdraw from the longer half life drug.
This is why patients are always crossed over to an equivalent dose of diazepam before starting a withdrawal plan - see The Ashton manual or any of the reports in The Journal of clinical Psychiatry by Profs. Bernik,Lader or Gorenstein.

Decca.

Mikke
12-10-08, 00:40
Comparison of diazepam and oxazepam:
preference, liking and extent of abuse
by
Griffiths RR, McLeod DR, Bigelow GE,
Liebson IA, Roache JD, Nowowieski P.
J Pharmacol Exp Ther 1984 May;229(2):501-8

ABSTRACT


In a residential hospital research ward setting, the effects of and preference for placebo, oxazepam (480 mg) and diazepam (40, 80 and 160 mg) were studied in human volunteers with histories of sedative drug abuse. Doses p.o. were administered every 3rd day under double-blind conditions. After an initial exposure to the letter-coded test drugs, a series of choice days was scheduled on which subjects chose between two available drug alternatives. Compared with oxazepam, diazepam produced greater liking (area under the time-action curve), peak liking and euphoria and was judged to be of greater monetary street value. Diazepam was categorized as producing barbiturate-like subjective effects more frequently than was oxazepam (54 vs. 21%), whereas oxazepam was identified as placebo more often than diazepam (32 vs. 4%). Diazepam was associated with a more rapid onset of effect than was oxazepam, and this rapid onset was repeatedly cited by subjects in poststudy written comments as being a desirable feature of the drug effect. In choice tests, 80 and 160 mg of diazepam were preferred to 480 mg of oxazepam on 62.5 and 91.7% of the choice tests, respectively. In choice tests between placebo and drug, placebo was never preferred to diazepam; however, placebo was preferred to oxazepam on 21.4% of choice tests.

Overall, these results extend previous experimental observations suggesting that diazepam has a higher abuse liability than oxazepam. The results are also compatible with an analysis of epidemiological data showing that diazepam abuse uniformly exceeds oxazepam abuse on seven epidemiological measures of drug abuse.

Mikke
12-10-08, 00:43
Decca,

It's not my intetion to argue, both medications are fairly potent - but it's just flat out wrong to suggest that diazepam is a drug easier to get off than oxazepam, which is just "Valium-light".

However - yout are perfectly right in saying that it would be a better idea to be put on a lower dose, bt as I understand it that was not an option for the threadstarter.

decca
12-10-08, 10:25
Hi Mikke,
Yea I understand what you're saying but all the different reports by various experts seem to disagree with each other which leave us - the end user even more confused - I guess we can only be guided by our own Doctor's who hopefully have made an informed decision on the correct way to administer these drugs, this obviously didn't happen with the poster.
It's nothing new tho' as in the sixty's I was left on 30mg per day Phenobarbitone for 15 years and had to wean off of it myself.

Cheers
Decca.

Alabasterlyn
12-10-08, 11:48
Hi Lyn,
When did the guidelines change ?
My repeat is for 56 and my last repeat was in August.

Decca.

Hi Decca, I'm not totally sure when the guidelines changed, but it's been around a year or so I think. I did go to see my GP when my repeat suddenly dropped to only 28 days worth of meds and he said there were new guidelines in place to stop people getting addicted. Quite frankly I think this is just rubbish as first of all these are only guidelines and people are still being given repeats for 56 days. I personally think it's just a way to get more money. I find it really hard sorting my meds out on a 28 day basis as I find that no sooner have I requested a repeat and got it picked up and filled etc., that it's time to start all over again. What people who are addicted to benzos need is proper help to come off them, not more hassle.

There is a national scandal of people being left addicted to benzos with absolutely no help with withdrawing from them as GP's know only too well that it's very hard to give the help needed. My GP told me that I am addicted to my benzos and that it will be harder to come off them than if I were on hard drugs and offered no help at all other than for me to go and chat to him if I have problems!

If you smoke you can get tons of free help on the NHS to stop smoking. If you are an alcoholic there are rehab places to go to. If you are a drug addict there is help out there. If you are addicted to benzos it seems you are just left to help yourself :weep:

decca
12-10-08, 18:44
Hi Lyn,
I reckon that must have been when they reduced the script for my my heart to 28 at a time, I was still working then so I told them that it was just inconvenient to me and my Doc. agreed to increase it to 56 at a time but she said that was the most she could do,I gather it's something to do with reducing the cost of meds to the practice. I've noticed that if I put a request in to soon it'll come back marked "not due yet" the NHS computer system even counts down the days and calculates how many pills you should have left. I can think of other things the NHS could save money on.
Yea you're right about not getting help comming off of meds, yet each practice is supposed to have a dedicated person to help patients do just that.
How much Diaz. are you taking & have you ever felt the need to increase them ?
Decca.

Elaine19825
15-10-08, 18:16
Hi guys,

I'm currently taking 4mg a day for the past 5/6 weeks at least and have been taking D on and off for over 12 months. I'm starting to notice it doesn't make me as tired as it used and its not enough on its own to calm my anxiety as am taking propranolol as well.

I'm worried too about stopping this drug. There are a few GP's at my surgery and one will hand them out, another is very restricted about how many they give out. I'm worried that i'm addicted and will have problems stopping them. My anxiety is getting better but not gone and i do not feel ready to stop taking my drugs yet. Sometimes i worry more about the fact i'm taking the drugs than my anxiety. It's hard to know what to do for the best but at the moment i know i need both drugs in order to function.

I think its awful that a GP would stop a perscription cold turkey.

This anxiety rubbish is really getting me down! :(

ElizabethJane
15-10-08, 19:00
you could have problems withdrawing from diazepan. I would suggest a chat to your GP with regards tapering if you are to come off them. I have had very bad withdrawals from mirtazapine and have been using diazepan to help with the panic and anxiety attacks. If you are unable to function without it perhaps you could ask for a referral to a psychiatrist who could help you understand what is causing the panic and anxiety in the first place.

Elaine19825
15-10-08, 21:37
I'm seeing a counsellor and trying reflexology, acupuncture, hypno - i have tried most things. I think recovering from this awful thing takes a long time and there is no quick fix. I've been suffering really bad since June and am feeling much better than i was then. Am half way there. It's just gonna take time. But at the moment, i do not feel strong enough to completely stop the meds.

Ex

Alabasterlyn
16-10-08, 09:11
Hi Lyn,
I reckon that must have been when they reduced the script for my my heart to 28 at a time, I was still working then so I told them that it was just inconvenient to me and my Doc. agreed to increase it to 56 at a time but she said that was the most she could do,I gather it's something to do with reducing the cost of meds to the practice. I've noticed that if I put a request in to soon it'll come back marked "not due yet" the NHS computer system even counts down the days and calculates how many pills you should have left. I can think of other things the NHS could save money on.
Yea you're right about not getting help comming off of meds, yet each practice is supposed to have a dedicated person to help patients do just that.
How much Diaz. are you taking & have you ever felt the need to increase them ?
Decca.

Hi Decca, I take 20mgs of Librium a day, which equates to 8mgs of Valium. As I've taken it for so many years I know it's no longer working. I still get really anxious and over the years have also developed depression, which I have heard can happen if you take benzos. I've now been taking anti depressants for about the last 14yrs and even though I have tried to stop taking them, as I know they are no longer working either, I get really bad withdrawal symptoms. For me it was like I constantly had the flu as I was achey and had a pretty much constant headache, yet my GP said it was just psychosamatic. It got to the point where I just couldn't handle feeling so ill and went back on the meds. Within a few weeks I was back to "normal" if there is such a thing!

I would dearly love to get off all of these horrible meds as I really do not believe they are a long term answer to anxiety disorders. However even though I have major agoraphobia problems I manage to struggle along and as I am now caring for my granddaughter whilst my daughter in law goes to work I dare not risk having withdrawal symptoms and having to let people down.

Natural Mystic
05-11-08, 14:17
I'm surprised they've been prescribing these for that long to be honest

*Kimzhoe*
12-11-08, 15:10
I've been on benzo's the sleeping kind since i was 17 im now in my 20s when i first got them i hadnt slept and i was a reck to the point of seeing things. I also have been on valium on and off saying that i miss it lol and now i carry it around its like my lifeline and reading that artical i really didnt think about it till now but it does anger me a bit that being the age i was i had no clue id be addicted and now i cant go with out.