The kind of stuff that scares me about HIV

[Stressed32]

Recently I was called "narrow minded" by someone on this forum whom I have never had contact with. I never should have let it drain so much positive energy from me, but I was offended b/c I consider myself to be open to lots of experiences when my anxiety allows me to be and this comment questioned my character as an individual. I am posting this so that people can see the kind of crap that is used here in the states, and probably all over, that scares a HA suffer like myself in regard to HIV: Does anyone see anything written here about how hard it is to actually catch the virus from normal heterosexual sex (0.01% or 1 in 1000 encounters)? No, if I did not know that already, an ad like this, which I received via email this AM, would get my mind spinning and put me into a panic attack. I got this as spam mail and have never signed up for anything like this...where did it come from? I will say that in the past, I would see this as a sign and by now I would be in full mode panic attack!!!! By the way, several of my friends use the same internet provider here, and they got the same email....or spam.
This is what I meant in my previous post about "the government hyping it up" and I apologize if this comment offended anyone on this site. You all have been my savior and support and the last thing I want to do is offend anyone here....Let us support one another and not beat each other down.
-Stressed

http://dn.nationmedia.com/DN/DN/2009/03/10/article/020/10_03_2009_020_009.jpg

[lauren6]

I have to disagree that this is not just hype. The people who write these ads aren't concerned about those with health anxiety. This ad is nothing new. Twenty five years ago they came out with the saying, "When you sleep with someone, you're sleeping with everyone they've ever slept with...and everyone THEY'VE slept with and on and on. So each person is theoretically hundreds or more.

I also live in the states and am a former STD counselor. I can't tell you how many women were diagnosed with HIV from just one encounter. With a straight man. It was someone down the line, somewhere. I advise everyone as I did when I was in the field. Get tested with a potential partner, wait for the window period to pass (and hope to God he keeps his word about not being with someone in the interim), then get re-tested again and then if you want to have sex, ok. This is the ONLY way to be sure. If someone doesn't want to wait the 3-6 months for the re-test, use TWO condoms. That's the only way, sorry to say.

I don't think these ads are meant to scare people, but to open up their eyes. Same with the very aggressive and graphic smoking ads lately. I have had 2 cancer scares that turned out to be nothing but it scared me enough to know that I was very sorry to have smoked in the past. I never want to hear the words, "You're HIV positive" and like smoking, this s something of which we have control. I wanted to kill myself for having smoked and wish I had seen these ads when I was younger. You don't want to make these realizations after the fact. I'd rather have my health anxiety revved up than get a diagnosis of HIV or cancer. I hope you know that I mean this in good will. This is serious stuff and granted, as an STD counselor, I saw more than the average person but the ad you showed is so true. The numbers are growing among women. Please, please be careful. We are in complete control of our bodies and with the exception of forced intercourse, nobody has to get HIV if they follow the guidelines.

[Stressed32]

Hi Lauren 6- If this ad is not meant to scare people, it sure scares the s*** out of me. I tested - for HIV but still....this ad does not mention the realistic statics of how difficult HIV is to catch from 1 heterosexual sexual encounter. Can it happen, sure it can, but it is not as easy as this ad would have us to believe.

I am not saying I am out being stupid. I am not. I am married and have been for quite some time. But ads like this make me worry about all of those times I slept with someone prior to and he slept with someone prior to...add a little HA in the mix and I can convince myself that my test was wrong and I am at risk b/c maybe it was dormant or there is a new strand or something stupid like that.

I think healthy awareness is very important and people should be careful but I grew up with crap like this constiently being thrown in my face and being told that sex can kill you and now I am terrified that every little runny nose or ache maybe HIV even though I have had a - test because it can be dormant for so long and I have heard Drs making mistakes before....I can what if this to death but then I'll start w/a panic :)
Throw google in the mix and it is just not easy to stay realistic and that is my point in this post today.

This ad is not realistic because while the chance is there, it is 1 in 1000, lower than getting hit by lightning. That is why there are lots of couples where 1 has it and the other never gets it after years of unprotected sex. Also, according to the CDC website and the WHO website, as of today married couples are not the fastest growing group of HIV postivies but rather African American men are....so is this ad even stating fact, apparently not? According to the CDC and WHO this is not a fact so then what is the point in this type of ad if it is not a fact but rather something close to a fact blown out of proporton? Is that creating awareness for fear...kind of like the bird flu and how we were all going to die from eating chickens and never did...or mad cow disease...need I go on?

It also breaks my heart when I read post from 16 and 19 year old girls on this site who are terrified they have HIV after 1 sexual encounter using a condom. Sex is not bad and these girls are being safe. They are starting a terrible HA habit at such a young age. Awareness is great and very much necessary in many aspects of life. However, I respectfully disagree with you because I think that this ad is smuck and not awareness. Awareness is presenting facts to people in order for them to be better educated in the choices that they make not throwing lies at them in hopes of them not having sex b/c they become afraid.

[lauren6]

Stressed, I listen to a radio station geared to an older crowd (even though young folks listen to classical music too!). Between the music, every ad is for Novardis ("Hello, I had dengue fever and my tongue fell out") not the exact words but close, over and over, Sloan Kettering, childhood cancer, so depressing. They scare us to death with cholesterol (much of which is justifiable but ad nauseum). I can't listen to my station without being reminded that something could be wrong with me.

I had an HIV test less than a year ago because my ex worked with HIV patients and although he wore double gloves, they can get pierced. So I was convinced I must have caught it, that he must have it along with hepatitis B, C, you name it. I freaked out one day and went to get tested for everything. It was negative but I also worry, what if they're wrong, despite the accuracy of the test.

I read the websites you posted about the validity of being HIV+ and it having no relationship to actual AIDS. I think these people are a little nuts as I have seen many neighbors go from having a positive test, them telling me and eventual death. Everyone I know who died progressed from a positive test so I don't know what these websites people are talking about. I will add that I live in a largely gay area so I have seen so many people I know die before they had the current drugs. But...I have also seen quite a few straight women, you might want to google Alison Gertz, a teenager and eventual spokesperson who died from ONE encounter. I knew her family. The guy was bisexual but it shows me that it was not so hard for the virus to be transmitted. I have seen just too much and I am affected by this so I would rather people be a little scared and be safe. I do understand your point though as I said previously, we are bombarded with things day and night like you said, bird flu, salmonella, peanut butter now. And it breaks my heart too when I see the young girls on here who should be enjoying a healthy sex life without being scared to death. It's a difficult world now and I guess we all have to find a balance between erring on the safe side without freaking all the time. It is hard for the average person these days but for us it's so much harder.

[tashbarnes87]

Hi there guys I hope you don't mind me saying this but this thread makes me very nervous and does nothing for my health anxiety. I have have just googled (some thing I haven't done for ages) Alison gertz & have scared myself now. I have a big fear of HIV and I guess it's kind of like we know we are risk from catching it but my doctor even told me that it is a hard thing to catch. Yes not impossible from the first time but unlikely. He also said in compareson to say other stds HIV is a relativly small risk as 100,000s of people catch stds only a very small amount like 5-10 will catch aids x

[AntiLove_SuperStar]

TWO condoms at a time is a really bad idea..you were joking, right??

HIV ads arn't geared towards HA sufferers, as we arn't the majority.

[lauren6]

Anti_Love, no, I wasn't joking. If you've ever been to an STD clinic, they usually advise two condoms just as they advise surgeons to use double gloves in the operating room. Condoms can break and at least you have a backup. Nobody can force anyone to do this but especially for those of us with health anxiety, we don't want to go through more scares than we already have.

We have control over a lot of what's out there...we don't need to get certain communicable diseases if we take super precautions. At best we can minimize the risks. For example, someone in my apartment building just came home from the hospital with MRSA. Now I know she may have pushed an elevator button before me so I come home and as crazy as it may seem to some, I spray my hands with clorox. We are told to wash our hands often anyway but who the heck wants to catch this? Not me!

I didn't post about Alison to scare anyone. I posted it because we can't put our head in the sand. This just leads to more anxiety in the long run if we actually GET a disease. I come from an orientation about prevention so that we never have to go through the real thing. And that anxiety is a whole lot worse. Speaking for myself, having had 2 cancer scares, I would not be able to handle it well at all if it had actually happened. I was grateful for the obnoxious doctor who actually threw my cat scan across the room and yelled."You're a SMOKER???" (as if I was the first one in the world who smokes)...well, they saw a lesion on my kidney that they thought was cancer. I had to have another cat scan and it was just a blood vessel. I have had other scans since and same thing, I am fine.

However, again, I will always be grateful to this man because that night, I had 3 cigarettes left, smoked them out of nerves and never smoked again. That was 8 years ago. My point here is that we can control our health to some degree. I don't think using two condoms is a big price to pay for preventing HIV, chlamydia, gonorrhea, etc. I have been in situations where I looked back and said "If only.." I love and identify with the people on this board and don't want anyone to go through this.

[enigmatique]

I'm not getting at you lauren6 but the advice this side of the pond at least is not to use 2 condoms because the friction between the condoms is more likely to cause both of them to break, or to come off. This is what is taught in sex ed here :shrug:

[lauren6]

Hi enigmatique, interesting theory and different than what we were told to teach people. I am no longer in this field so things may have changed in the states. Thanks for that info, I'm going to research that. Bottom line though is get tested in the suggested time frames and have him/her tested before doing anything.

[Stressed32]

Good morning my fellow HA sufferors- I just wanted to say that I agree with you all and thanks for your responses.

Tash I am so sorry that anything here made you google...I hope you are ok. hun. HUGS TO YOU!!!! I never ever google, even when people tell me to because of this very thing....really I am so sorry that this post made you upset and I do hope you are ok.

Lauren6, I agree that some of the sites I posted are a bit out there. However, I also think that being educated about ALL sides of an issue is the best way to be. Do you see them as being "out there" because they go against the grain of everything we have been told from age 10? For me, I am cautious of them just in case they are wrong, but I think there is some truth in the things posted there. We should NEVER be niave enough to just simply beleive what our government, or anyone for that matter, feeds us via the media or any other outlet as we know many things are blown out of proportion for the sake of ratings, as I said earlier, look at the bird flu thing....I was scared to eat a darn egg b/c of that!

I think the truth about this whole thing lies some place in the middle. I do think it is a serious disease, but one that is not as easily transmitted though NORMAL heterosexual intercourse as this ad leads you to beleive.
I do think that there is a lot of information about this topic not being readily and honeslty shared with the public and when people begin to share, question, and speak out against the "norm" of what we have been told....they are thought to be "out there" which was your exact response and I must say mine as well. My mother in law works in the US Senate and she herself has told me that there are many things that our government knows and does that they do not tell the public because it would put the general population in panic mode.

Wearing 2 condoms in my opinion is not only over the top, but makes an experience that should be beautiful very painful, and awkward to say the least. Plus, accordning to what I have been told wearing ONE condom prevents possible infection and makes it impossible...so what would be the point in 2?? Wouldn't 2 create tears in vaginal skin making it then easier to catch...ouch, I hurt just thinking about that situation! :)

I understand your experiences with HIV and STDs, but I also think that people lie. I do believe that every person you spoke to got it from 1 encounter as it only takes 1 encounter. However, are they being honest about that encounter and the curcumstances behind it? You yourself said Allison's encounter was with a bisexual man, opening the door to a new array of risk factors and statics in and of itself. Bisexual is not what I mean when I say normal heterosexual relationships. Bisexual makes the risks of getting it through 1 encounter go from 1 in 1000 to 1 in 200.
Do you really think that when these girls come into any clinic you have worked for that they were 100% honest about whether or not their sex was anal or invloved drugs?

I had a friend in highschool who was tested + at the age of 20. We all freaked out and began to wonder if we slept with anyone she slept with. Come to find out...the truth...was that she had anal sex with this guy while doing cocaine...risk factors changed when the truth came out.

If people were really at such high risk from getting it and you theory stated above was true:
"When you sleep with someone, you're sleeping with everyone they've ever slept with...and everyone THEY'VE slept with and on and on. So each person is theoretically hundreds or more."
then anyone who has ever had unprotected sex even once would have it and let us be honest, we have all made mistakes...we would all have it by now and there would have been a huge epidemic of this which did not and has not happened as predicited in the 80s.
The opposite is in fact true in that HIV is the least prevelant STD out there today and is growing slower than all the rest making this statement 100% false. Again, 1/2 truths from the media and government meant to scare people rather than educated them.

This is not an HIV forum so I digress. My point in the entire post was this:

You can't raise awareness with 1/2 truths, fear, and lies. All that is being raised by an ad such as this is fear. This is sad because perhaps if ads like this (cancer ads and all those prescription drug commericals on TV included) were not freely thrown at us and seen as acceptable behavior, we would be here sharing recipes rather than HA fears. This is not an ok thing for anyone to do, whether HA sufferes are the majority or not. It is ads like this that make people scared to have sex. Should we be safe, heck yes, no matter how hard HIV is to catch, we should be very safe and selective in our partners, but should we be scared into doing so or educated with facts about the issue?
Personally, I'd rather be educated with facts, left to make my own choices, and THEN if those choices are poor, I live with the consequnces of my actions.

[starlight78]

This is a very interesting... although a very anxiety producing post! I used to have a huge HIV phobia, but i managed to get it into perspective (after a few tests!!)

I dont have much to add other than i agree with enigmatique that the advice over here is that you should only ever wear one condom as 2 can cause friction between the latex and increase the risk of tearing.

I think that we all do things that are risky, we would have to stay in the house and not move if we wanted to eliminate all risk and that is no way to live.

Obviously we need to make sensible decisions, but i think its important to keep things in perspective if at all possible.

If people worry about dying too much they stop living.. xx

[Stressed32]

Starlight- imagine getting this via email like I did yesterday...that is why I put it here...it scared me and got my anxiety going. I did not sleep well last night and have heart palpatations all AM. I too have HIV fears and to see this in my inbox darn near put me into a panic attack and I have not had one in over a month :(

I am sorry that it caused anxiety with you too....I guess perhaps I should keep some things to myself.

[lauren6]

Stressed...just to clarify, I didn't say that everyone I know got it from one encounter. Mostly everyone I know personally who has it is gay. The women in the clinic I didn't know well enough to know if they were being honest, as you pointed out.

Two condoms does not irritate women any more than one. One is directly on top of the other so there is no difference. It was suggested that the second one be lubricated so as to not tear while going over the first one. However, I agree it shouldn't have to come to this. It's all about trust and testing. I don't judge people. If someone is into one night stands or sleeping with someone on the 3rd date with no test beforehand, it's their business. But if one has health anxiety, we see the results of this on this board and yes, myself included because I did some foolish things in my life and got burnt, thankfully not with HIV but the lesser things to me were an omen. To me, the best sex in the world is not worth the anguish or the worrying afterwards or a possible positive diagnosis. I plan to continue to enjoy it as much as the next person but no way without seeing his paper!

[bex1970]

Wow - those are some messages....I should think you've both terrified most of the people on here. I'm no administrator or anything and totally respect both views but think, out of respect for the fear and mental health of others on here, that this debate should be confined to PM's....or even the chat room! Sorry if I've spoken out of turn...

[Stressed32]

What exactly has been said here to "terrify" anyone? I do not think that was Lauren or my own intentions what so ever because both Lauren and I are here for our own reasons, none of which include to offend any of you. Lauren, I do not know you, but am I right...are you here to scare anyone or just present logical facts and try to help me from my original post? Are you here to scare me or anyone else or help me? If anyone should be scared by anything Lauren said it should me because her response was from my original post, and nothing she said scared me....Lauren...did I scare you with anything I said? She was simply trying to help me see things clearly...facts are what help HA so that you know what your scared of and that is what she and I both were trying to give...facts.

Nothing said here was a lie or not a fact or was even overly exgagerated...can we not post things that scare us too without being told that it scares others and should not be here but belongs in a PM instead? Isn't looking at things in a realistic fashion part of the healing process so that we stop seeing that situation in an unrealistic fashion, which is what all anxeity is caused from? Should we just sugar coat our fears...or not post at all and just let them fester? I have a fear of cancer too, does that mean that you guys can't talk about cancer just because it scares me and gets me going? That is pretty silly given this is a HA forum. My HA stems from HIV specifically. I placed this post here for support and am sorry if I scared anyone else in the interim.

This site has been a Godsend for me and yesterday when I got this email I was in a bad, no terrible place, so naturally I came here so that someone, anyone, could support me the way I have supported you all. I came here, as I have been for quite some time, looking for support from anyone who was willing to give it. As you can see, I have lent support to over 97 other people suffering, even if I did not agree with them, even if their post scared me and got me worried about the same symptoms, and I was looking for a little of the same. I can't tell you how many times I felt for glands after reading one of your posts about glands! However, never in a million years would I consider telling someone who is suffering at the moment that their suffering was making me suffer...that would be selfish of me now wouldn't it? Instead, I try to help them and move on. If I feel I can't help due my own mental issues, I click away and move on. Why can you all do the same instead of trying to make me feel worse?

Instead of getting support, or even positive words, which is what this forum was designed for, what I have gotten here are posts saying that something I said has scared others...well I am so sorry for that and instead of postive support today what I feel is worse for making any of you feel bad....

[starlight78]

Hi Stressed,
Please dont feel that you scared me... i have read alot on this site which stings abit, but i have a choice whether to read it and you made it very clear in the heading what the post was about so if people didn't want to read it they didn't have to.

I found your posts reassuring in fact as they were trying to encourage people to keep the anxiety in perspective.. a very good message for those with HA.

Sending you thanks and best wishes xx

[starlight78]

ooh and p.s.... please dont anyone follow the 2 condoms idea.. very bad idea and actually increases risk of tearing and therefore failure.. xx

[Stressed32]

Starlight, I would like to thank you very much for your response. I have been in a panic ever since reading that stuff. I appreciate your kind words...hugs :) At least I know that 1 person out there got my point of the whole thing...which was NEVER to scare anyone. No worries about the condom thing...we are trying to have a baby so condoms do not enter this house :O)

[bex1970]

Not for one minute have I suggested that you were deliberately trying to frighten anyone at all.... but your posts are in depth and elaborate - there was no need to be so defensive and as I said, I support both points of view on the HIV issues raised. You have already had one post that told you you had frightened her beyond belief - but as you rightly say, no-one has to read the posts - so I'll stay out of it.

Believe me though, I never once suggested that your posts were deliberately frightening anyone.

[nomorepanic]

Can I just add that the administrators have seen no reason to close this thread and I have been reading it though not commented as it is not my personal area of expertise or worry.

[lauren6]

To stressed: I couldn't have phrased it better than you just did. Your intention was never to scare anyone. I said basically the same thing...we can't bury our heads in the sand. Yes, we have health anxiety but we have to also be realistic and know that some things cannot just be attributed to anxiety..we are not infallable, we are like everyone else as far as our bodies. My point is that we have control over certain diseases. We are bombarded with information about cancer prevention (eat broccoli, this and that) but that's not a guarantee.

With HIV, we CAN control our fate much more. We CAN'T control a lying, cheating partner but we can try by getting tested and using good judgement. I also don't want to scare people but I have had an STD and went through the whole "If only..." thing. It could have been prevented and I don't want anyone to go through this. Same with cigarettes and my cancer scare. I never want to go through that again so took charge and threw the cigarettes away. Does that mean I'll never get cancer (even if I were a non-smoker in the past)? No...but I can try. Again, my point is I know how horrible it is to have health anxiety and not have anything and I know how much worse it is for folks like us to actually sit there across the table from the doctor and get a real diagnosis. I have always worked in the health field with prevention as the main focus.

I am sorry if I misled people about the 2 condoms. Apparently it is not recommended but please know that at the time I did counseling, it was, by the Center For Disease Control in the states and this is what we were told to tell our patients. And stressed...good luck with having a baby!! That is so exciting.

[nicbow]

Hi stressed,

Firstly i am sorry if i offended you with my response - it is me you are referring to with regard to your first post i believe! As you said you got the reply from somebody you have never spoken to...but that happens in these threads...we cant know everyone who posts a reply hun!

I was just stating that it was a little offensive to say that the government 'hypes up' HIV. As i said in my last reply, i know hetro women and a family member who have this disease, so it is not just 'gay men and needle sharers or prostitutes' who get HIV and it is certainly not difficult to contract in a hetrosexual relationship. It isnt always about a partner cheating or somebody sleeping around...for example my one of my best friends got it from her fiancee when she was 19 - neither of them were aware he had it. This is why i suggested that it should be routine to get the simple test before ditching the condoms!

I am definitely not trying to scare any HA sufferers with my replies, this is just yet another illness that people become aware of more when they have health anxiety, which can only be a good thing (HIV related i mean!), its a shame the rest of the world isn't more aware!!!

I totally understand why those emails would scare the life out of you and i do think its wrong that they send them so randomly....tho i do understand that the government is just trying to stop this terrible disease spreading...i am truly sorry it made you so anx <hugs> xx

With regard to the 2 condom suggestion, that is certainly not needed, used properly a condom is a very effective means of protection....even simpler get the checked out at your local GUM clinic and you have no worries at all! :D

Dont feel like you have to keep anything to yourself hun, that is what the forum is here for, although debate is human nature so it is bound to happen here just as it does everywhere else unfortunately xx

Finally those who are anx about HIV, although i have said that it is a terrrible disease (which of course it is), it is also being managed very well nowadays with lots of new medications and you can lead a very normal life. I am happy to report that my friend who has had HIV for 12 years now, has just had her 2nd HIV free baby (and her partner is not positive) so life does go on :yesyes:

Sorry you have had so much grief from this subject and i hope in future you get the advice you need xx

:bighug1: