View Full Version : I've ruined everything
It looks like I've done it again, only this time I am terrified that I have gone too far and I've upset K. I know she is extremely disappointed in me and I deserve it. In fact I don't blame her if she hates me because I hate myself. I hate the person I have become and I hate what I am doing to people I care about - particularly K. She means everything to me and I am messing it all up.
If she gives up on me or leaves me because I am so stupid I've driven her away I don't know what I'll do. I don't want to say it but I don't even want to try to live without her. Without her my life is meaningless and I might as well curl up and die.
Can't stop panicking now and I doubt she will reply again today so I don't know what is happening. I can't blame this on the anorexia because it's me - I am the one doing these things.
I love her so very much and I want to be with her. I need her like I need air to breathe. If I could be with her I know everything would be ok. I just can't cope with this anymore:(.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Karen - what is it you think you've done?
I'm sure K won't leave you. She has been with you this far, hasn't she?
"Life is too important to take seriously" Corky Siegal
Oh Karen,
This is not you, its your anorexia. I've seen you write messages rather like this before and the you realise that its not quite so bad after all.
I know that K means so much to you, but I think she's still here for you and so are we.
Take care,
Ray
Don't wait around for other people to be happy for you. Any happiness you get you've got to make yourself.--Alice Walker
Oh Karen Honey K wont leave you like i said before she is your true friend, she knows that it isnt you, it is your anorexia that is doing it to you.
Hang in there hun, i am so sure that K wont leave you.
Stay strong and im thinking of you,
Love Trac xx
its "just a thought"
Thanks for saying it's not my fault but really it is. I might have anorexia but I am the one who does these things. I am too ashamed to say what I did but it was stupid and will only lead to the anorexia getting worse.
So I really don't deserve to have her care about me or to have her support. It's all my own fault.
I need her so much and I can't believe I keep doing things that could put my relationship with her at risk. I can't see any way out other than being with her. I don't think there is any other way.
I'm so scared and can't stop panicking. And to top it all Dad keeps ringing again today. I want to get away from here and away from him but the only place I want to go is to be with K.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Sue K with 5
02-09-05, 01:43
Hi Karen
K is a very special person, who has been ther for you for quite a while now, real friends never walk away, trust me, my mum was ill for years and she has had two true friends who have stuck by her no matter whats she said or did.
K is the same, she might need to step back, but walking away is not an option for her, because she would have done it a long time ago, trust me !
I have no idea what you have done, but I know how anorexia can damage you mentally and phsyically, and you have been through so much recently, especially with your dad.
I think you need to say goodbye to him for a while, all the time this man has an impact on your life and bringing you down you will never be able to get stronger.
My dad used to be able to reduce me to tears and thats is an awful way to control someone.
You are a brilliant, caring and wonderful person who give the greatest support and advise, so now take some of ours back. Listen to what is said and remember how much we all care about you.
Trust me K is still going to be there
All my love and hugs
Sue with 5
scknight
Hi Karen
I dont know much about your situation but I do know that you are lovely person who has given me great words of support of comfort on here!
Take care and please dont berate yourself you dont deserve it!
Helen x
Hi Helen
Thanks for your reply. I am glad if I have been able to help you at all with anything I've said.
I know beating myself up and blaming myself doesn't get me anywhere but I just feel so bad about some of the things I've done recently, and particularly how this might be hurting K. It makes me believe I am such a bad person because of it.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Hi Sue
Thank you so much for your reply. You are right about K being a very special person and she is a true friend. Deep down I know she would never walk away. She made a promise to stand by me and see me through this, no matter how long it takes and I know she would never let me down. I trust her with my life.
Sometimes though I feel I don't deserve her help, support and friendship. I think I should be making progress and getting better, when instead I am not getting anyway, and in fact things are deteriorating. Worse than this is when I do things which actually lead to my situation getting deteriorating.
It doesn't really matter what I've done, except to say that it is totally self-destructive and against everything K would want for me. It would be easy for me to lay blame entirely on the anorexia and avoid taking responsibility, however I am the one who chooses whether to act on the thoughts and therefore I blame myself and know it is entirely my fault.
You are right regarding Dad I think and I wish I had the courage to tell him that I need space and to ask him to leave me alone to sort my life out. He is adding to my distress and I am constantly on edge and anxious. I cannot answer the phone at all now and have turned the ringer off as I was jumping every time it rang, and I am so worried he is going to turn up here banging on my door that I have been sitting in the dark so he wouldn't know I was home if he turned up. The situation cannot go on like this, but I don't know what to do about it.
Sorry to hear about your Dad. Were you able to stand up to him or walk away? How did you handle it? Dad is about the only person he can reduce me to tears like that and I think it probably is another form of control. I rarely cry at any other time and tend to keep everything bottled up inside however upset I feel.
I want to thank everyone for caring so much. I don't know what I've done to deserve such good friends.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Thanks Nigel.
Today is better than yesterday, but then it couldn't be much worse than that. I've heard from K this morning so feel relieved about that. I still can't help thinking that I might hurt her or that I am being a burden to her though.
I am still worrying about more talk of hospital and the impending crisis or breakdown everyone appears to think I am heading for. I don't want to believe or accept that I will end up in hospital one way or another and that it would be better for me to admit myself rather than wait for the choice to be taken away from me.
I also had a letter from my estate agent this morning suggesting that I might want to consider lowering the price my house is on the market for due to lack of interest. This is another thing that worries me about the talk of hospital. How am I supposed to sell this house and find somewhere else to buy if I'm in hospital???? I have visions of either selling this and being homeless, of not being able to sell and facing greater financial problems or of Dad swanning in and taking over. It is more pressure and uncertainty and I don't know what to do.
Also Dad has been making his usual round of phone calls this morning. I've now turned the phone ringer off again.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
This is getting ridiculous now. Dad is still ringing and has called at least three times this afternoon. I feel like I need to hide out in my own home now in case he comes round here. Have got all the curtains closed and am panicking at the slightest noise.
I know I should probably talk to him and just get it over and done with but the longer it goes on the harder it is to do it. I can tell from his messages that he is already wound up because he can't get a response from me and I am worried about his response and how he is going to react.
I really wish he didn't live so close.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Karen,
You can't avoid him forever!! The sooner you talk to him the better..
Sarah
"Life is too important to take seriously" Corky Siegal
That's easier said than done though Sarah. You don't know how intimidating he can be.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
True. I can only imagine. You will have to face him at some point however, I guess. Though to be fair, you have every right to ignore him if that's what you want. I just get the feeling that he will trap you at some point..
"Life is too important to take seriously" Corky Siegal
Yes he will catch me at some point. I don't think today is the best time to talk to him though because he is already too wound up and likely to explode.
I can't avoid him forever but I really don't relish having to deal with him when he is so angry.
I'm tired now anyway so I've taken the batteries out of the doorbell, turned both phones off and I'm going to listen to my relaxation CD and try to have a nap. Hopefully he'll give up eventually tonight and then I can just send him a text when I know he will have gone to bed and avoid the situation for today.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
As regards the house, what advice have you had regarding the potentially difficult situation (trying to sell it whilst possibly being in hospital) ?
Be wary of unscrupulous estate agents, and get a number of agents to value it.
Some dodgy agents may try and sell you short, especially if you look to be single, vulnerable and unable to seek a second opinion on a price.
Is your house similar to another in the neighbourhood that has recently been on the market?
Also, is there a way you could go forward without the selling the house in the near future? Have you been to the Citizens Advice Bureau to help you?
I don't want you to have this additional worry on your shoulders if there is a way to avoid it.
Hugs,
Ray
Don't wait around for other people to be happy for you. Any happiness you get you've got to make yourself.--Alice Walker
Hi Ray
No I haven't had any advice about how to sell if I end up in hospital. I don't know what would happen then.
I think it is probably valued at the top end for properites like this and may need to drop the price a bit to generate more interest.
There is no other way than selling. I've already considered other options and this is the only way out of this mess. I just need it to happen soon, both for financial reasons and also in case something happens regarding hospital. If they send me there I know I won't be getting out very quickly.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
I'm feeling really panicky today. I think K thinks I've completely lost the plot and am completely delusional in my thinking. Think maybe she is getting tired of me telling her how much I need her.
I am hiding out again jumping every time I hear someone outside and am waiting for the phone to ring. I even went out to the supermarket in the middle of the night last night just to ensure I wouldn't bump into Dad down there. It is completely ridiculous.
I feel very low, can't stop this constant anxiety and am struggling with the anorexic thoughts today.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
paladin806
03-09-05, 13:07
Hi Karen, sorry to hear things are rough for you at the minute, but please dont despair, there IS help for us all we have to be patient till it finds its way to us. As for the house and what you would do if you had to go into hospital, please see an advocate, i have one and its like a big weight has gone from my shoulders. She is there to fight my corner for me, and she listens and she encourages, but most of all she is my defender and ally, she makes sure that everything is done in my best interests, no matter where or how i am feeling, she is there to protect and guide me. Please contact the advocacy service, there must be one near you. Hope this is of some use and i hope things improve for you real soon, but in the meantime remember the love and support you are getting on here, that is priceless. John.
Thanks for the advice John. I'm not really keen on having a stranger involved in this and would only really feel comfortable with someone I know and trust.
I've got no intention of going into hospital anyway. They will have to drag me there.
Feeling really tired at the moment. I've had no sleep in the last 24 hours as I've run out of my sleep medication. Hopefully this means I'll be able to sleep tonight at least.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Hi Karen
Have just caught up with your post and sorry to hear things are not going to well for you.
If you ever fancy a chat if you are up to it you know where i am.
Love Sal xx
Dont mess up the best things in your life, just because at present you are unsure who you are.
"Life is a distance and to travel that distance you were given the strength and guidance to do so".
Thanks Sal.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
nomorepanic
03-09-05, 21:22
Karen
Look forward to seeing you again tomorrow.
Nicola
"Nearly all happiness comes into our lives through doors we don't even remember leaving open"
Hi Karen,
Just letting you know I'm thinking of you and I hope you have a nice time with Nic tomorrow.
Love Piglet x
Thanks for your kind thoughts Piglet.
Looking forward to meeting up again Nic. See you later!
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Hi Karen
Hope you have had a good day out and it has helped take your mind of things.
Love Sal xx
Dont mess up the best things in your life, just because at present you are unsure who you are.
"Life is a distance and to travel that distance you were given the strength and guidance to do so".
Hope you had a nice day Karen :D
"Life is too important to take seriously" Corky Siegal
Thanks guys. It was a good day and yes, Nigel, the weather was glorious. I wasn't cold for a change.
Unfortunately I found the journey home quite difficult but that's my own fault for several reasons.
I am supposed to have a blood test at my doctor's surgery first thing in the morning but I'm thinking of cancelling it. I don't think I really need to have it done and even if the tests showed anything I don't really want anyone to know. I don't want them to have any further excuse to try to persuade me to go into hospital.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Feeling really ill this morning. I only managed an hour's sleep last night and still feel totally exhausted. I am still feeling sick too and am finding it difficult to breathe properly.
It's probably just anxiety and tiredness but I'm going to have to go back to bed. I'm feeling really lousy and don't feel like doing anything. Wish I had K here to look after me.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
I really don't want to be alone right now but know I have no choice so will just have to get on with it I suppose. It doesn't stop me wanting K to be here and being looked after for once.
Also have stomach pains, but then I get those a lot and I am drinking loads of water because I'm so thirsty.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Hi Karen,
Just wanted to say how brilliant you are for doing the drive to the meet yesterday. I'm glad you had a nice time and I hope you feel better as the day goes on.
Love Piglet xx
I was feeling better this morning and I still am as far as the physical symptoms are concerned. I spent yesterday in bed and although I didn't sleep well, I did rest and the sickness and breathlessness stopped. I am sure it was just due to lack of sleep and anxiety.
Now though I am having another panic attack and worrying about losing people and being rejected. It feels like everything is hopeless and it doesn't matter what I do because I will still be alone and no one really wants to be near me. All I do is hurt them and drive them away.
People don't want to be close to me because of my anorexia and I hate being this way but I didn't choose it and I can't stop this illness just like that. I wish I could but it won't let me be free of it.
Now I don't know that I even care what happens to me anymore. It seems everyone thinks I am getting worse and becoming more ill and weak. Sometimes, like today, when everything is going wrong and I can't see a way out I just don't care if I deteriorate more and never recover. What kind of life is this anyway? Who really wants to spend their entire life alone, particularly knowing it is their own fault that no one wants to know them? I know I don't and if it is going to be like this I might as well give up now.
I am tired of fighting and losing. I am tired of desperately wanting love and attention from people who are not able to give me what I need, particularly when it is my own fault that they feel this way.
The thing is, I suppose, I know I am such a terrible person and deserve all of this. It is my punishment for being so bad and being totally unlovable. I hate myself and I hate my life. I just want it all to end. I've had enough.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Karen,
You are NOT a terrible person. Are you going to listen to the irrational voices telling you this or the people that have actually met you and know you, who KNOW you are a very kind, caring, generous person. Think rationally here, the odds are that we are right and your negative voice is wrong. Let it tell you this if it wants to - you dont have to believe it. believe us.
Every life is worth fighting for - yours, mine, your friends, neighbours... we are all equal, no one deserves it more than anyone else. so keep fighting, i have faith it will be worth it in the end - if anything else so that you can advise people in your situation that it is possible to get out of it.
Have you tried Paul McKenna's looking in the mirror thing and telling yourself only positive things in the mirror. ie 'i AM worth it', 'I am making progress', ' I deserve to get through this'. Try it.
Thinking of you hun,
Lisa
xxx
"do not fear to hope...Each time we smell the autumn's dying scent, we know that primrose time will come again"
Hi Karen,
I totally agree with Lisa - the person we see is not the person you are seeing at the moment and we all really like what we see - wish you did too.
Big hugs
Love Piglet:)
Thanks for the replies Lisa and Piglet. Physically I am feeling better but I'm feeling so low today. It just seems that everything keeps getting worse and I can't cope with it anymore.
First I had copies of letters from the psychiatrist and a social worker from the CMHT to my doctor this morning. All they are concerned about is the fact that I refused admission to an eating disorder unit and therefore they've discharged me back to my doctor.
However, they both said if my BMI drops below a certain level then my doctor should order a Mental Health Act assessment so they can force me to be admitted to the unit.
The psychologist also refused the referral for therapy saying her involvement is 'inappopriate'.
I'm feeling low too because I haven't heard from K today and now my appointment with my therapist for tomorrow has just been cancelled.
I just can't take anymore of this. I just want to give up.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Need some encouragement at the moment. I've just been out to the supermarket and bought some yoghurts and I also bought a little sliced Turkey.
I want to try to eat it but the anorexic thoughts are getting to me at present. I want to do this to maybe go some way to restoring the faith K and other friends have shown in me. I feel I've been letting everyone down recently.
Before anyone says I should be doing this for myself - I know I should but I can't. I can and am trying for K though.
Just finding it difficult to get to the point of actually eating it and really need some help here.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Hi Karen,
You have done well to go and buy food, maybe whilst sitting at the computor, get a small spoon and one of the yogurts, and just try to sip at it, read through everything here, and just sip at the yogurt, i find the more i don't think about eating, i tend to take small bites etc...as for the turket, can you manage a small sandwich, cut all crusts off, cut bread into tiny fingers, take a bite every now and then, go back to it after a while, take things slowly, one step at a time, by the way, i think you are a good person and read your advice and take note of it, speak soon, and let us know if you manage to eat a tiny amount? I hope i have not offended you with eating suggestions, i so truly understand how difficult it is for you. Hugs. xxxxxx
paladin806
07-09-05, 15:26
Hi Karen,you must be proud of the fact you went out and bought something to eat,must have been a big effort for you with the way things have gone for you today. As well as making you proud of it, hows about giving us all something to make us feel good, and do your best to eat some of it. As for the letters you have, dont let them distract you from living for today, and for all the friends you have out here who are really rooting for you, You can get through this,we know you can. John
Go on ...
I wonder if you have any idea how many people you have out here rooting for you - both here and there.
You go for it Karen..one spoon and slice at a time.
It is the only way forward.
Meg xx
Wow thanks for all the messages already. I really appreciate your support.
Carlin: No offence taken honestly. In fact it was a very good suggestion.
Meg: Thanks. I know this is the only way forward and if I don't do it the end result is pretty certain. Sometimes I feel so alone here, not seeing anyone for days at a time, so I probably do forget how many people are supporting me here and at K's forum.
John: I hope this helps someone else feel good because eating to me makes me feel really bad but I am doing my best to push past those feelings and just do it.
Nigel: Thanks. I am trying to combine Carlin's idea of eating at the computer, with using K's messages to help encourage me.
Well I've now had several spoonfuls of the yoghurt - about half in fact. I can't say I am feeling good about it and that anorexic voice in my head has kicked off big time with all the threats and put downs.
I think this is as much as I can handle for now but I'll try to have some more later. Haven't managed the turkey yet but I will try to have some of that later too.
I'm not going to let them put me in hospital and I don't need any of this 'so-called help' from the mental health services. I can do this with the help of K and all my forum friends, as well as my therapist.
This is just the first step I know and I am going to continue to need lost of help and reassurance because it is so very hard to ignore the voice of anorexia.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Karen,
Yes, you are right. This IS the first step, but you have taken it and you realise that to keep yourself out of hospital this is the only way forward.
Kate x
Thanks for the encouragement Kate.
It scares me to think further than what I am trying to do today because I know there is such a very long way to go.
To be honest I can only really think of trying to eat a bit healthier and maintaining, as the thought of actually gaining any way still petrifies me. Definitely only the first step.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Thanks Nigel.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
quote:
I'm not going to let them put me in hospital and I don't need any of this 'so-called help' from the mental health services. I can do this with the help of K and all my forum friends, as well as my therapist.
I think I would print that out in really BIG bright letter, and keep it somewhere prominent for inspiration. And if you don’t, I’m gonna quote it in evidence against you ;)
<div align="right">Originally posted by Nigel - 07 September 2005 : 17:15:45</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I bet you would too!
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
OK a new plan.
I have to tackle that turkey now or I'm going to lose my nerve and not do it.
I've made a sandwich - just one piece of my diet bread and no butter and I'm going to try to eat it slowly while posting to other people to try to distract myself from the fact I'm eating.
I have also printed some of K's wise words out in big letters and have put them up on the wall in front of me.
Here's hoping I can actually do it now...
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Karen,
You are doing so well, good for you. YOU CAN DO IT.
I know I don't post here as I never know how best to support you, but I do think of you. Just wanted you to know I am supporting you though.
I know it won't be easy eating but you really can do it. Step by step and day by day if you can manage a bit more and get stronger you will not have to worry about hospital and K will be so proud of you, as will everyone here, and hopefully you will be proud of yourself too.
Keep going Karen, you may have good days and bad days but don't give up.
Love Lisa
Thanks for your support Lisa.
I'm not getting too carried away with myself because attempting to eat more on one day doesn't really amount to much but I am making an effort.
I so want K to be proud of me more than anyone could possibly imagine.
Still trying to very slowly get through this sandwich.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Well it took me over an hour but I did eat it. I suppose I should feel good about this but I don't. I feel very panicky now and like I have messed everything up, particularly as I haven't heard from K so far today. The anorexia is telling me that I won't now hear from her because I have been so bad, not just by eating but because I've eaten banned food.
I wish I didn't feel like this after doing something so simple as eating a small amount of food. I know it is the illness making me think like this but it doesn't make it any easier.
I'm feeling sick and very fat right now. Even though I managed to eat I don't know how much of a success this is because I'm now beating myself up about it and feeling scared that not hearing from K tonight will simply strengthen the anorexic delusions.
I'm going to lie down for a while to get away from here, as I can't stop obsessively checking for messages from her now.
I have tried but I don't think this is good enough.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Well done for managing the turkey Karen!! :D
I'm sure it's a huge mental battle at the point but it wil soon become normal again and you will see that you will hear from K whether you eat or not.
"Life is too important to take seriously" Corky Siegal
Well done on the turkey ..
Thats a great days work
Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com
Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?
Good on ya karen! You did great!
Take care,
Love PIP'S X X
Thanks for all the messages of support - Sarah, Nigel, Meg and Pips. I really appreciate your help.
Great news about the car Nigel! At least that's one problem solved.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">I'm sure it's a huge mental battle at the point but it wil soon become normal again...
<div align="right">Originally posted by seh1980 - 07 September 2005 : 20:51:03</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Unfortunately I think it will be a very long time before eating is a normal activity for me, that's if it ever is again. Yesterday was one day, following on from months of anorexic behaviour and there is an awfully long way to go. I don't think these anorexic thoughts ever go completely and even people who have recovered talk about still hearing that voice and having to fight the temptation to be drawn back into it again.
I went to lie down for a while last night and fell asleep for a couple of hours but have been up again since 1am. Since getting up I have managed to have the other half of the yoghurt, although I am now feeling sick again and panicking that I've eaten something which isn't on my 'safe' list of foods.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
paladin806
08-09-05, 10:18
Hi Karen, You did GREAT! Tell you now, that you made a lot of people feel good, what you achieve is a boost for everyone.
and we are all with you in your struggle. We may not understand all the ins and outs, but we can see what you are going through,and your genuine distress and our hearts go out to you. Every triumph for you is a boost to us all. Keep going forward we all know you can do it,and are with you all the way. Kind Regards and thanks for the boost. John.
Thanks for your kind message John.
I am aiming to try to eat a very small amount every 3 hours and see how I go with that, even if it is only a couple of spoons of yoghurt or a couple of strawberries. It's better than nothing isn't it?
Think it might be slightly easier if I break it down because I get bloated really quickly, which makes me feel really fat and just makes the anorexic thoughts worse.
Have to see how I get on with this. Obviously I am experiencing much greater anxiety since making more effort to eat because the easiest thing for me to do is to starve myself and avoid the anxiety but I know K is concerned about me and friends are worrying about me, and I don't want to do that to people I care about.
I'm trying to take it an hour at the time at the moment and I can't promise that I can keep this up. Anorexia doesn't go away overnight.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Yes little and often is the best way ..How is is going today ?
I'm keeping it going although it's not at all easy. I had a few strawberries mid morning and have just had half a turkey sandwich.
It is hard getting past the anorexic thoughts, particularly about K and contact. I am finding it so difficult to stop thinking that I won't hear from her because I am eating.
I'm trying to keep it going. I do feel like all I have done today is eat though and am feeling rather panicky about that.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Hi Karen,
just wanted to say well done really. Each small step makes up a big step eventually. Try not to be too hard on yourself.
Good on you.
Trev
Hi Karen,
wow! you have done real good! as you say things will not disappear overnight, one hour at a time, eat little and often (as suggested) your strength will gradually return, and in turn many things may improve, i am personally really impressed by how you are coping with everything, and still have the time to give good and needed advice to others. Keep at it mate, take things slowly and please keep in touch xxxxxxxxx
Thank Nigel, Trev and Carlin
The anorexic thoughts are getting to me this afternoon, particularly regarding K and have been feeling very anxious but I know I have to keep pushing through this.
I have listened to my relaxation CD. I've also been on the Internet trying to distract myself and also watched 3-2-1 on TV - there's a blast from the past!
Now I'm really tired as I've been up since 1.00 this morning. Going to have a lie down in a minute I think.
Unfortunately my compulsion to check for K has been running wild today but I think it's a bit much trying to tackle my anorexia and obsessive attachment to K at the same time.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Aww Karen, I really hope you manage to get some sleep now, you sound very much as though you need to.
Take care and still thinking of you and (((((((hugs)))))))
Sax xx[8D]
Yeah I do need to Sax but at the moment I am finding it hard to tear myself away from the computer and looking out for K.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Stick with it kid you're doing great!!!!
Love Piglet xx
So impressed with you I walked to the first lampost on my street on my own today and chatted to a neighbour for 10 mins, yeah 10 mins baby :) (actually its not the talking I find hard its the shutting up).
Well done Karen, you're doing great. It may be hard but keep going, it will be worth it.
Well done to you too Piglet.
Lisa
Thanks for the support Piglet and Lisa.
Piglet: Well done for making it to the lamp post alone. Great achievement.
I'm keeping up my efforts to eat little and often. I finally fell asleep about teatime last night and slept on and off until later in the evening.
When I got up I had a few spoons of yoghurt, and since then I've had a slice of toast and a little bit of fruit.
The anxiety is building again now though because I have an appointment with my doctor this afternoon for my fortnightly weight check. I can't stop thinking that I will have gained weight and seeing that might push me back again. I'm already finding it so very hard to cope with these thoughts I'm having and the fact that I seem to be spending my day eating continually. This is going to make me fat isn't it?
Just wish I could have one minute of the day without the voice of anorexia in my head.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
What a great days work Karen
Keep it up - we're rooting for you
Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com
Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?
Thanks Meg. I am trying.
At least I can truthfully tell my doctor that I am eating. Can't I?
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Morning Karen,
See each mouthful as making you healthy and keeping you out of hospital if you can.
You are doing so well, bet your doctor will be pleased.
Big hugs
Piglet xxxx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Hi Karen,
Just wanted to say that I think you are doing brilliantly :D
You are really making progress and i'm really proud of you and pleased for you.
Tatty B xx
Thanks Piglet and Tatty B.
I'm having trouble controlling the panic at the moment. I felt sick again this morning after eating. Since the toast and fruit first thing this morning, I had a bit more yoghurt. Following that I immediate felt sick again, as well as very fat and bloated.
I decided to lie down on the bed for a while and I fell asleep. Why is it I can fall asleep when I have to go somewhere and so have to get up and not when I want to sleep?
Anyway, I woke just now with a start and still feel sick and very tired but I've had to get up in order to go to this appointment with my this afternoon, which I am still dreading.
I feel so much better when I don't eat. Right now my feelings about myself are getting worse and I am feeling like control is slipping away from me again. I hate myself when I eat and feel like I'm this really terrible person. I know this is the anorexia and I really am trying not to listen but it is very difficult.
I think the anxiety is causing me to feel sick but it means the last thing I feel like doing right now is going out. Wish I could just go back to sleep. It's a nuisance that I need a prescription for my sleep medication or I could avoid going to the doctor's at all.
Was going to try half a sandwich for lunch before going but I haven't got time now and I'm not sure I can manage it while I am feeling so sick. Maybe I will try when I get back.
Don't know what I am going to do if the scales show I have gained weight - I always starve myself before being weighed usually.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
**Since the toast and fruit first thing this morning, I had a bit more yoghurt**
Blimey Karen, we expected small steps- how fantastic is this progress ..
Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com
Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?
karen,
at work but just had to post and say a big well done! you are doing fantastically!!!
lisa
xx
"do not fear to hope...Each time we smell the autumn's dying scent, we know that primrose time will come again"
You're doing brilliantly Karen - keep it up hun!! :D
"Life is too important to take seriously" Corky Siegal
Thanks for your support Lisa, Meg and Sarah.
Just got back from seeing my doctor. She is not particularly happy about the lack of help I've had from the psychiatrist and CMHT and it seems now even the dietician has said there is no point in her seeing me again.
I told her the psychiatrist and CMHT discharged me because I refused to go to an eating disorder clinic and she doesn't think admission to hospital is the best way to help me.
My doctor didn't really know what else she can do apart from monitor my weight and do regular health checks.
I'm struggling a bit now because when she weighed me she said I have gained a pound - which she was pleased about but obviously I'm not. I am finding it hard to accept that I can gain so quickly and it is rocking my resolve to keep eating a bit.
She told me to keep up whatever I've been doing because it is obviously working. Apparently the mental health team told her I have to double my food intake but I think that is completely inrealistic for me at present.
Will I keep gaining so quickly like this. I am panicking now.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Karen - one pound isn't a lot of weight though am sure that it seems like it to you.
You will gain weight faster than the average person because you are so underweight to begin with. You are slowly becoming healthier - try to thino of it that way. It's what K wants, too. We all want you to be healthy!! :D
"Life is too important to take seriously" Corky Siegal
Karen,
Well done, you are doing so well. I know you may not agree but gaining one pound is fantastic news. Gaining weight and eating will be doing your body so much good, try and see it that way. I know it must be hard and I realise I have no idea how hard it must be for you. Try not to let the weight gain stop you from continuing to eat and try and be proud of what you've achieved. You will not get fat just more healthy. K will be so pleased for you and proud of you, remember that, and we all are here too. Keep up the good work.
Take care,
Love Lisa x
I know it doesn't sound a lot and probably sounds like I am overreacting but one pound is a HUGE deal to me.
I am not yet at all happy or comfortable with the thought of putting any weight on but wanted to try to maintain and see how I get on.
Maybe I have been eating too much.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
paladin806
09-09-05, 19:42
Hi Karen, Hey, what a bonus, popped in and youve gained a pound! Well pleased for you as i see everyone else is, know it is hard for you, but you are doing yourself (and us) some real good. Keep it up and believe me, you will start to feel so much better. Take care and remember we all here for you. John.
WOW Karen!
I miss a few days of your news and I've missed all the excitement!
You are doing oh so well, my friend.
I think that was a fabulous idea of yours to put K's good words up on your wall - these are really positive moves on your part, and you are really demonstrating to all your friends here how strong willed you are to conquer this. Just those damn voices getting in the way like right old party poopers.
OK, so you are going to feel bad with panics and such like whilst you go through this, but I feel you are entering uncharted waters so its bound to be painful.
Karen - you're a star - show us you can do this - I can well understand why its a struggle for you to eat very much, but you've made great steps.
Continue eating like this and you'll be making K and all of us here all very happy.
Reading these latest posts has made my day, and I think the title of this thread is wholly inappopriate lol
Onwards and Upwards,
Ray
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance.
~Mark Sanders and Tia Sillers
Thanks John and Ray.
I struggled all evening with the thoughts about this 1lb I've gained. All the anorexic thoughts were beating me down again and telling me I have to restrict or starve to get rid of this terrible amount of weight I've gained.
I know the reality is that 1lb is not a lot but anorexia doesn't see it like that and views ANY weight gain as being a total disaster and makes me want to avoid ANY food.
Anyway, I have spent the evening and some of tonight reading through all K's messages - and there any quite a few in the past year!
I've realised that although the doctor told me I had gained weight this time, this might not actually be the case. I normally make sure I starve myself before going to be weighed and won't eat at all on the day until after the weigh in. So the mere fact I had been eating yesterday morning could have made the difference. Well that's what I telling myself anyway.
So after fighting with the anorexic thoughts about wanting to starve myself again and aim to lose this 1lb if I have gained it, eventually I managed to have a little to eat this evening.
It is incredibly difficult and given a choice I still want to starve or restrict and continue losing weight. But at the same time I don't want to keep hurting my friends or have this illness continue to push away the people I care about.
So when I get these thoughts about how eating something is making me fat - and all those thoughts about how totally repulsive I am and that no one will love me if I eat - and that I am giving up control and K won't love me, I am trying to tell myself that these are just anorexic delusions and not listen to them.
I don't know if I can keep this up or if so for how long and I do need a lot of help and support to do it. I'm reading messages from K and another friend to help me in this fight. I need to be able to drown out anorexia's voice.
Thank you all for your continued support. I couldn't do this alone.
PS Ray I guess the title of this thread is a little inappropriate now and only relates to the first few posts on here. I should maybe have started a new one about moving forward against anorexia.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
paladin806
10-09-05, 08:28
Hi Karen, All the support you need is here, we are all so proud of you and what you are doing. I have to thank you too, because i dont usually get involved in these things,tend to live in my own dark world, but my world has bin lit up by your magnificent achievements,so no pressure, but you are helping me and no doubt many others with your fight back. Keep it up and so many people are willing you on . John
Now I am not doing well and in fact I can't stop crying. I can't cope and I don't know how I am going to get through today.
K responded to my message this morning but only to say she won't reply until I have edited it. Now I know I won't hear from her today and I am so upset that I don't know how I can eat anything at all. I can't stop crying and I feel or stop the despair.
I need her and I can't do this without her. I am so weak and stupid. I can only keep this up all the time I hear from her and have proper contact. Right now it feels like the end of the world and I don't know how to cope. I don't even want to carry on living. I can't get through today without her. I just can't do it.
Sorry. Don't know how to cope. I've been trying so hard to eat but now I just can't.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
You are right on your assumption of why the scales showed a different amount.
Glad the tears have arrived..release some stress.
You have made a huge concerted effort these last days and we are all very proud with you . You continue that , maintenence would be fine this week.
I agree, it is unrealistic to go for increases each week - so this week go for maybe 2 new nutrient high foods during the week rather than volume if you're struggling.
Protein based is what you need most
We're watching and willing you on Karen every single step.
Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com
Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?
Hi Meg
Thanks for that information and for confirming why I weighed more yesterday. I was panicking about continuing to try to eat more if it means gaining weight so fast like that.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">I agree, it is unrealistic to go for increases each week - so this week go for maybe 2 new nutrient high foods during the week rather than volume if you're struggling.
Protein based is what you need most
<div align="right">Originally posted by Meg - 10 September 2005 : 10:15:36</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Do you mean I need to introduce two new sources of protein this week? Apart from turkey and fish, what else is low fat/low calorie that I could try to introduce?
I've been crying on and off since receiving K's message this morning and thinking of it now starts me off again. I can't believe I am getting myself into such a state about this but I'm so cross with myself for not being more careful with my message to her and I'm struggling with knowing that it will now be tomorrow at the earliest before she will reply again, and during this time I will just keep thinking that she is disappointed in me and that I let her down.
However, I don't want to let everyone down who has been supporting my efforts this week and despite not feeling the slightest bit hungry or even wanting to eat at all today, I have managed a few spoons of yoghurt for breakfast.
Of course, the anorexia is telling me that it is my increased food consumption these past few days which has led to K refusing to answer my message this morning and I am trying really hard not to listen or get sucked into this again.
Thank you for your encouragement and for the wonderful support from everyone here.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
egg.. cottage cheese
I'm sure others will have more ideas
Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com
Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?
Thanks Meg.
If anyone has an ideas I would be grateful. The only thing is I am not ready yet for cooked meals, as by the time I come to eat it the anorexia has talked me out of it. So I really need food that doesn't need any or much preparation.
Thanks.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Hi Karen,
Do you like bananas at all - I exsisted on them throughout my first pregnancy as anything else made me queasy.
I think your progress has been superb this week, perhaps as has already been said, this next week could be one of maintance. I see why the doctor has to weigh you but as the idea of gaining is upsetting could you throw away yours and the doctor perhaps not tell you what you've gained (or would that make it worse)??
Keep holding onto the fact that if you can keep this up you will be avoiding having to go into hospital, so the benefits are huge.
Time to rename the thread I think!
Big hug
Piglet:):)
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Hi Piglet
Thanks for your reply and for the suggestion. I do like bananas although these are one fruit I have struggled with in the past because I know they are higher in calories that many other fruits. Maybe I could try again though.
K has tried to persuade me to get rid of my scales before but I think if I did that I might be worse as I would be constantly feeling like I have gained weight and not able to check by weighing myself. Think I would be tempted to restrict again then 'just in case' I've gained.
I am struggling more today than I have for the previous couple of days but I know this is because I am upset about K and not having any contact with her today. Still feel like crying whenever I think about this morning.
Haven't eaten anything since the few spoons of yoghurt for breakfast and I really don't want anything but I know I have to try. I think I might have to stick to one of my 'safe' foods though this time and just have a slice of my diet bread with marmite on it.
I really am trying not to let my efforts slip but I'm finding it really hard to get through today knowing I won't hear from K. I really do need her so much.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
You ate a banana in London.
I was most impressed .
Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com
Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Marmite! [:O] [xx(]
Now that really is brave to tackle the dreaded marmite!
<div align="right">Originally posted by Nigel - 10 September 2005 : 14:07:30</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
But I LOVE Marmite Nigel!;) It is also great because there are hardly any calories in it!
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">You ate a banana in London.
I was most impressed .
<div align="right">Originally posted by Meg - 10 September 2005 : 13:58:18</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Yes I did. I made a special effort on that day. This is the one and only time I have eaten a banana for months though. I haven't actually managed it again since that day.
Maybe it is time to try again - I have to search through all the bananas at the supermarket for the smallest ones I can find though![:I]
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
lol Karen bananas and marmite are very good for you so keep up the good work hun - am most impressed :D
"Life is too important to take seriously" Corky Siegal
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">K has tried to persuade me to get rid of my scales before but I think if I did that I might be worse as I would be constantly feeling like I have gained weight and not able to check by weighing myself. Think I would be tempted to restrict again then 'just in case' I've gained.
I think I might have to stick to one of my 'safe' foods though this time and just have a slice of my diet bread with marmite on it.
Karen
<div align="right">Originally posted by Karen - 10 September 2005 : 13:42:47</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Yes think on balance I would agree with that about the scales.
Nice thing about nanas is that you can get nice little ones too and marmite is a great one - just had that on toast myself. You will be doing well eating your safe foods too all helping to make you strong.
love Pig xx
Thanks for your replies Sarah and Piglet.
I am struggling with anxiety at the moment because I just had a PM on my other forum and when I saw there was a message waiting I got my hopes up thinking it was K. Unfortunately though it wasn't and now I am feeling upset and am despairing again.
Even though I am pretty sure she won't write again today, I can't let go of the hope that she might and this makes me keep checking just to be sure. Then I feel so disappointed and upset when I find there is no message from her. It feels like forever until tomorrow morning and there is no guarantee she will write then either.
It has been a really bad day today.
I have forced myself to eat something but haven't done so well as the past couple of days. On days like this I just want to give in to the anorexia and let it win. However, I know you are all supporting me and I am trying to keep resisting the anorexic thoughts.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
You have done really well the last few days Karen,
I know how hard it is for you when your so desperate to hear form K, but you do seem more positive this week, and have coped very well with trying the food that you have, keep it up karen no matter how hard we are all behind you,
kairen x
Thanks Kairen. Believe me positive is the last thing I felt yesterday but I have also made a promise to give this fight against anorexia a real go.
It would have been so easy yesterday to cope with my distress by starving myself because that has been my way of coping with any painful feelings and emotional pain. I suppose in a way I went from harming myself from bashing my arms to withholding food and starving myself instead and I found this a much more effective way of feeling in control and for transferring the emotional pain to something physical.
So when I felt so distraught about K's message yesterday the first thing I wanted to do was indulge in my anorexic behaviours. After all, the anorexic thoughts are still here with me 24 hours a day and it is a huge struggle not giving in to them.
However, I did manage to force myself to keep my food intake up yesterday, even though I felt so truly awful whilst doing it.
Now I am just praying that I will hear from her today because I am not sure I am strong enough to do it for a second day without a reply from her. I am getting so very anxious and panicky about it already.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
you are strong enough karen.
try not to let the anorexic thoughts regain control via the backdoor of whether k contacts you today or not. you know she cares, you know she wont abandon you.
you take care .. andrew
Thanks for your reply Andrew. The anorexic thoughts are already tied up with whether I hear from K or not and this is one of the ways the anorexia makes me restrict of starve because it focuses on my desperation for contact with K.
For now though I am still fighting the anorexic delusions and am trying to tell myself that contact with K is not dependent on whether I eat or not. It is so difficult though and it would be so easy to give in and do what the anorexia wants me to do.
However, I did have some breakfast this morning and I will try to have something for lunch, even though eating it the last thing I want to do right now.
Thank you all for continuing to encourage me. I couldn't do this without all the support I am getting.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Hi Karen,
You really are doing fantastically and its great to read you being so positive.
Tatty B xx
Hi Karen
It sounds as though even though you're going through a rough time, that you're really making a big effort.
I just wanted to pop in and say, well done! :D
Good luck with your continuing efforts.
mico
'Security is mostly superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding Danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.'
Thanks Tatty B and Mico.
I'm doing my best with eating today even though I am still feeling really quite low. I managed to have some lunch.
All I can think about is wanting to be with K at the moment.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Hi Karen,
I just wanted to echo Tatty and Mico's messages really...you are doing REALLY well!
Take care,
Sue
Thanks Sue. I appreciate your support.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Me too!
It's lovely to hear you are trying so heard to ignore these thoughts. You are doing so well with your eating, please keep it up.
Take care
Tam x
darkphantom
11-09-05, 15:11
Hi Karen
i just wanted to say as well that you are doing really well, proud of you, x
hey what about trying a little sandwich with marmite and banana in it trust me its lovely, ive tried it :D
and im sending you a big hug cos that makes everyone feel good and to know we care so here it comes ((((((((((Karen))))))))
take care ok
thinking of you
susie xx
Thank you Tam. I am doing my best to keep it going.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Hi everyone
Just a bit of an update really. I found yesterday really tough and I was so tempted to give in to the anorexia again. I found it so very hard to resist the temptation to restrict and starve again, but I did manage to eat although maybe not as well as the previous few days. I mainly stuck to my safe foods.
I have heard from K this morning so am doing better today. I had some egg for breakfast and am just about to have half a sandwich and some fruit for lunch.
Keeping this eating up for a couple of days felt like I was doing ok but it is keeping it going beyond that which is really tough. I'm still experiencing so much anxiety and panic when eating and then afterwards continue to panic that I am really fat and have gained weight. I feel like I am letting go of any control of my life.
I am also feeling particularly anxious at the moment because I have the estate agent coming here tomorrow afternoon to discuss where to go next with the marketing of my house. Am going to have to consider a price reduction because there hasn't been any interest since the first week it went on the market.
Thank you all for your continued support and thanks Susie for your kind message. Think we were posting at the same time yesterday.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
**I had some egg for breakfast and am just about to have half a sandwich and some fruit for lunch.**
I missed this yesterday.Sorry.
What a success despite feeling bad.
You are pushing against Edie solidly - well done .
I know you're really sad today but this success is not to be forgotten
Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com
Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?
Thank you Nigel and Meg for your encouragement.
I'm not feeling at my most positive or in a very good frame of mind to resist the anorexia this afternoon. It just feels like no matter what I do it isn't good enough and I'll end up back at square one again.
Just can't explain how let down I feel at the moment and yet I am still blaming myself for it.
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
Hi Karen
Sorry to hear today isnt going to well for you when you have being doing okay. You will get there hun i have every faith in you.
Love Sal xx
Dont mess up the best things in your life, just because at present you are unsure who you are.
"Life is a distance and to travel that distance you were given the strength and guidance to do so".
Thanks Sal.
I don't have any faith in myself right now. It just seems like if the professionals give up on me what hope have I got?
Karen
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere.
You have your hope.
However hard it has got for you, you have never stopped trying. That takes a lot of hard work and a special person just wish you could see that. Many times you could have given in but you never have and that shows how strong and positive you are hun.
Love Sal xx
Dont mess up the best things in your life, just because at present you are unsure who you are.
"Life is a distance and to travel that distance you were given the strength and guidance to do so".
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