How to CURE yourself ! The definitive guide here.. [Archive]

Ambience

18-09-05, 12:02

Hi there Everyone,

As some of you may know, i have suffered with panic attacks, anxiety, social anxiety, and agoraphobia. For anyone suffering with these problems i can honestly say that it is possible for you to cure yourself. However, you don't suddenly become thin overnight when you start exercising, you need to maintain this PATTERN so that you don't fall back into your old ways and become fat again. You have chosen a pattern of living that makes you feel anxious, now is the time to choose a pattern that makes you feel relaxed and happy about life.

First of all, you CHOOSE ( even if you are choosing to feel miserable and anxious) to feel every emotion that you feel in your life. We are the only animals that have the gift of CHOICE, this is our ultimate FREEDOM, and this is why...

Everytime you make a desicion whether it be concious or subconcious, you have a STIMULUS (situation- whatever provokes anxiety) --you then have a CHOICE ( Space where you make the decision)--- and once you have chosen, you have your RESPONSE( your reaction to the thing that has provoked anxiety).

All you need to do to control your anxiety is realise this, at the moment you are reacting to the situation. You are not spending enough time making the CHOICE to choose your response, you are letting your subconcious choose for you. The space is small, you need to expand this space. ULTIMATELY you choose your response to everything in your life, you are in ultimate control.

You are choosing to feel anxiety at the moment. Now here is how to CHOOSE not too.

If i were to say to you don't think about blue, whatever you do don't think about blue, what colour would you be thinking about ? BLUE right?

Okay so now i say, don't think about anxiety , whatever you do don't think about your anxiety, what do you think about - your anxiety ?

SO...if you want not to have anxiety:

1. FIRST don't try not to think about it.
2. Find something to focus on ( what you focus on is what you become"!) so focus on something fulfilling, energising, something that inspires you, makes you feel like you are contributing. DISTRACT your mind.
3. Feel the fear or anxiety and do it anyway...the longer you spend dwelling on it, the more intense it becomes and the more you are drained of your life energy. It's bad to focus on oneself so much, try being more helpful to people around you.. volunteer at a charity, take the focus off yourself.
4. Cultivate a passion- what do you really want to do, set a goal, then take steps to make it happen.
5. DISIPLINE- this means you are in control!! when you say something to yourself you do it, it gives you conviction in yourself. Take action when you say you will. You will realise you are in control.
6. CHOICE- make the choice, you are choosing to be where you are now, if you don't like it , or how you feel, change it.
7. Start asking questions? Ask your mind constructive questions not negative ones. If you ask your mind why do you feel so bad.. it will find an answer. the brain responds to what you ask it, it will answer any question, so make sure you ask the RIGHT kinds of questions. For example. What can i do to make myself feel better today? Ask empowering questions.
8. There is no such thing as the future. There is only NOW! Make yourself feel good in this moment ( not through alchol or drugs mind). Concentrate on now and the future will take care of itself.
9. There is no such thing ask a mistake...don'T beat yourself up so much, life is a learning experience, everytime you fail, you have learnt one more way how not to do something, and eventually you will find the way that works. Just keep trying and don't be disheartened.
10. Evaluate your life. Make a plan..You wouldn't start driving without knowing where you were going ( what your destination is) or you would end up anywhere, or nowhere. Definately not in the place you want to be, so then why do you entrust your mind to know exactly where you want and are going in your life? Isn't that just madness..

SickofIt

18-09-05, 13:07

My therapist has me do an exercise called the "situation thought log". Basically it's a simple chart with 3 columns. In the first column, you list a situation (any situation will do). Then in the next column, you list your feelings (my therapist gave me a huge list of every feeling imaginable). In the third column, you write down what you are feeling in the situation.
The idea of the exercise is to see how your thoughts affect your feelings, not the other way around. The key is controlling your thoughts. You're right, Janey, it's about a choice.

mico

18-09-05, 15:45

Good post Janey! All good points in my opinion.

Just a few thoughts to add.

I think when you talk about 'choice' and 'response', you are spot on. It is all down to our response which comes through our choice.

What many people have great struggles with (and I'm not just talking about anxiety sufferers, although it applies to them greatly) is the fact that they try and control their surroundings.

Say, if something hurts you, then you try to protect yourself from it, and the way we usually go about this is to eliminate the object that hurt you.

To cut a long story short, if we can control our surroundings, then we can eliminate danger.

My quote at the bottom applies to this directly. The fact is, we can't eliminate danger, it's not possible. Yet the majority of the population strive to achieve just that. It is a fruitless task. We have no control whatsoever over our surroundings. The whole time we are doing this we are just running round in circles like a dog chasing its tale. We're chasing an idealistic view that is nothing more than fantasy.

I think all of us here are probably guilty of this to some extent. There has been times when we've played the victim, or still do. Question's rush through our minds 'why me?', 'what have i done to deserve this?', why does nothing work out the way I want it to?', or the all too common 'if only...' statements, 'if only there wasn't so many people', 'if only cars didn't drive so fast', 'if only...then things would be perfect for me'.

Well, truth is, nothing is perfect. And we have no control over that, it's what we've got so we just have to live with it the way it is. It's very important to make an effort to accept that fact.

The one thing we do have control over, is our own actions.

This is exactly where it enters into your philospophy. We can't control the actions of our surroundings, but we can control our reactions towards them.

However...

You state very strongly that you CHOOSE each and every one of your actions.

This is very true to a large extent. But I feel that putting too much emphasis on it can be off putting. For example, when someone goes out and they begin to feel panic welling up, they immediately refer back to the main points that they remember. So, they think 'I have the choice to control this, right?'. They then become disheartened when they seem unable to make the choice not to be anxious.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with your points, I'm just putting my 2 cents into the jar, from my perspective with the hope of filling any gaps.

Your points still hold true, but I'd like to emphasise your first point, that this can't be controlled overnight. When you strongly emphasise that you have the choice with your reactions, it can lure people into thinking that the choices you make can 'flick a switch'. When it comes to anxiety, they can't. Unfortunately, it's a process that unfolds over time.

In a sense, anxiety can't be controlled. Not in the direct sense anyway. Like you say, if you try not to think of it, you'll think of nothing but.

But, also like you say, a series of your own actions, or responses, can make an incredible difference over time. One powerful 'reaction' that you can make when faced with anxiety, is to accept that it's there. Accept that right now, this is how you feel. It is often your struggles with fighting your anxiety that drag you deeper into it.

Although I know this is what you're saying, I guess what I feel needs emphasised, is that our anxiety is a result of a series of our responses and reactions. It is not a choice to switch off our anxiety directly, but a choice to change our responses/reactions which inevitably lead us to our anxiety.

I hope that makes sense. Anyone, please feel free to clarify or discuss what I'm trying to say, I'm not sure if I do a good job of it sometimes :D

mico

'Security is mostly superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no s

Piglet

18-09-05, 17:33

Two good posts Janey and Mico.

So Mico when the person has set off on their walk and they feel the panic rising but they can't remember thinking a scary thought but that first wave has come (can't think who I'm talking about lol) what could they do then????

Love Piglet :)

PS: your posts always make sense to me Mico[8D]

"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.

mico

18-09-05, 18:44

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
So Mico when the person has set off on their walk and they feel the panic rising but they can't remember thinking a scary thought but that first wave has come (can't think who I'm talking about lol) what could they do then????
<div align="right">Originally posted by Piglet - 18 September 2005 : 17:33:37</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

You mean there is no thought to trigger the anxiety, which in your mind effectively leaves you with no escape from the anxiety?

First point to make, is that there is always a thought which triggers it.

However, if you delve deep into your mind, you may well discover several layers of thought bundled on top of one another. Most of the lower layers you may well have never noticed before, these are the ones that just seem to power up by themselves, and the layers go right down deep into the subconcious. Apologies for going a little deep into this, but I don't believe there is an actual line between the subconscious and the conscious mind, rather it is a progressive rise into the conscious mind. Layer upon layer, starting from the bottom (layer 1 in the subconcsious) and working its way to the top (layer x in the conscious).

Anyways, don't spend too much time thinking about that. The bottom line is, there are many thoughts you don't notice. Some are so deep down that your conscious mind barely registers them. Others pass through so quick that the conscious mind has little time to process them. All it takes is a fraction of a second for that negative thought to pass through your mind, you rarely notice these consciously but the anxiety has already begun to well up.

This is where anxiety can become very confusing. It is also where it can become very dificult to control directly.

If you look at all of Janey's points, none of them attempt to control anxiety directly.

Go back to the point of trying to forget. The more you try, the harder it is to forget. Similarly, the more you try to push your anxiety away, the stronger it comes back at you.

It can be confusing, and you're right to ask questions. The idea is to control your anxiety, but by means of not controlling your anxiety.

Claire Weekes explains this philosophy very well. I'm not sure if you've read her books, but I would recommend them. Although she certainly isn't the only source of this philosophy, it's a philosophy that has been developed over thousands of years.

In particular, look at her philosophy of acceptance.

looking at it in the context of your scenario:.

You're out for a walk and suddenly the panic monster rears its head, the anxiety is starting to well up and you can feel it elevating.

Well, by that time it's a little late to stop the thought that triggered it, that moment has passed regardless of whether you seen it. The reality of the situation is that the panic is rising.

Ask yourself now, why will the anxiety continue to rise?

The most likely answer is that you fear the outcome. The anxiety's going to just continue to build, and build, and build, until you're going to start shaking, screaming maybe even, you're going to be running up and down the road like a headless chicken, but a screaming one, right? At least that's what your mind is telling you at the time.

So, you obviously don't want that to happen and you try your hardest to fight your anxiety. As you fight it, the anxiety is fighting back, thoughts are being thrown both ways. All this really serves to do, is to bring your attention directly to your anxiety and you can't think of nothing but.

Accepting your situation is a difficult thing to do because, as you know, it's unpleasent. In fact, the word 'unpleasent' probably doesn't mean much to most of us, I'm su

trac67

18-09-05, 19:13

Janey and Mico really good posts, and all so true, and i agree Mico i used to fight my anxiety head on and it used to fight me back even more, it was always stonger than me and always won. I have learnt now when it 'waves' over me instead of fighting it i just think about something else, and it just seems to evaporate. I used to run to try to escape it and it just used to run after me, and it was always ****** faster than me cause it always caught me. But not anymore, i think of it like someone who would bully you, if they get a reaction out of you then they do it even more, but if they can see it doesnt bother you they soon get fed up and leave you alone, im not sure if i am making sense, but hey i know what i mean lol.
Take care
Trac xx

its "just a thought"

jill

18-09-05, 19:46

[Wow!] What great post Janey and Mico,

I have this information all up in my head, but there is NO Way I could write it down or explain it like you two have.

Many thanks

LOVE JILLXX

mico

18-09-05, 19:47

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">But not anymore, i think of it like someone who would bully you, if they get a reaction out of you then they do it even more, but if they can see it doesnt bother you they soon get fed up and leave you alone, im not sure if i am making sense...
<div align="right">Originally posted by trac67 - 18 September 2005 : 19:13:02</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

Makes perfect sense.

Apologies to Janey too, I feel like I've hijacked her thread [:I]

Some posts I see and it inspires me to post. After that I just can't help myself.

Edit:

Jill

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">I have this information all up in my head, but there is NO Way I could write it down or explain it like you two have.</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

I'm still trying to explain it :D

And still feeling like I'm failing miserably at it. I honestly think in the exact same way as you.

In fact I was just thinking that this is probably one of the reasons all my posts end up so long. Because I'm constantly trying to explain myself and just going on and on trying to really get to the point I was trying to make (which is in my mind, but putting it into words is another thing altogether!).

In all honesty, I never feel like I get to the point exactly. I've probably missed loads out, so if anyone cares to correct me, please do, I learn just as much from this as anyone else does.

In future Jill, try writing your thoughts down, you never know, you might surprise yourself.

mico

'Security is mostly superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding Danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.'

Piglet

18-09-05, 21:04

Right guys, everything does make sense and yes I love Claire Weekes (may go over the acceptance bit again though) but the problem is everything you're saying I can achieve as long as I don't have an audience.

I was just getting to the stage of letting it wash over me in places like Homebase and sitting on a bus (accompanied) and then feel I've lost it again. If I panic at home with only the kids in, or my best mate, or on my own I can apply all that you are saying and it WORKS, which is obviously why I am happy at home.

Now how do I take it PUBLIC when I am so scared of having a panic attack and being embarassed in front of other people and them thinking I'm looney (I can see I obviously have a major hang up here of what other people think of me and yet I don't want to be like that and tell my kids that they can't please all of the people all of the time).

So if I can do it at home how can I take it further and achieve this in the big wide world in practical terms????

Love Piglet :)

"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.

Trev

18-09-05, 21:35

Hi Piglet,

I think you've answered yourself. Quote..........

"Now how do I take it PUBLIC when I am so scared of having a panic attack and being embarassed in front of other people and them thinking I'm looney"

You've already set yourself up to panic in your mind before you meet other people. I know how it feels and all I can say is you've just got to go with it. I think Claire Weekes says "UTTER" acceptance. You just have to accept it will happen and accept it. The more you do, the less it will happen. I've been out with people in the past and have barely been able to hold it together. Can't concentrate on what's being said. Feel like I'm talking utter rubbish when I do strike up the courage to talk. But the more you do it the more it does pass.

I feel fine now and I'm sure alot of that is to do with 1) exercise, so keep going for it on that front and 2) I just think about it less now. The less I think about it the less it bothers me.

Try and get that exercise cracked. It's helped me massively and I'm sure it would do the same for you. :D

Good luck.

Trev

in1peace

19-09-05, 05:27

Yay to Ambience for taking the time to post all of those tips!! Thank you very much!!!
Those are EXCELLENT nuggets of advice Ambience, Mico and Nigel!!! Thank you for sharing those! I will print that out and study when I'm not so sleepy.
I just want to interject for those people who might be reading this who are really at their wits end. There are some of us for whom the panic has so consumed our living that we can't even sleep because of the panic that jolts you out of your dreams. When you are so panicked that you cannot function and you can barely sit still to read a post, please do not feel like you are to blame for the horrific state you are in!! Yes, I agree we are responsible for our thoughts and emotions, but who in the heck would ask for the hellish nightmare our minds and bodies send us through when a panic attack takes place?!? If you are in an intensive state of panic, I suggest that learning to change your thinking takes time. Dealing with your thought patterns should take place during those times when you are NOT in a panicky state. That is very important to note! Take advantage of the times you aren't panicking to learn new thinking skills and relaxation techniques. And if you are unable to function because your panic episodes seem to run on and on and overlap and you can't even sleep at night, I suggest medication. I am so proud of all of you here that do not use medication and have not wanted to. BUT... if your very life is at stake and/or you have children to take care of, get medication to help you take the edge off and settle you down. Then, while you are having a break due to the medication, work on the skills you'll need for after you get weaned off the medication (WITH a physician's help!!)
I personally was one of those people who knew about positive thinking and making choices about how I think and feel before the panic ever reared it's evil head. But even though I knew how to do this, several life traumas smacked me in my head all at once and threw me for a loop with barely enough time to catch my breath. All that I knew quickly went out the window, because I became overwhelmed. That's when you know you need good therapy and/or medication.

"Honey, if ya ain't feelin' the bumps in the road, ya ain't goin' nowhere!" (A wise Georgia Granny's take on living life to the fullest! LOL!)

Meg

19-09-05, 09:03

Wonderful thread.

I recommend the count to 10 to have a chance to quickly think through all options before deciding how to respond, virtually always you downgrade your response reaction if you insist on a bit of thought space.

Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com

Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?

jill

19-09-05, 09:44

[Wow!] alot of great replys.

I just would like to add one thought.

The belief that it is possible to get better, without this belief you undermine everything you have learnt.

Many thanks all

TAKE CARE

LOVE JILLXX

Believe it can be done.
When you believe something can be done,
really believe, your mind will find the ways to do it.
Believing a solution paves the way to solution.

tygwyn

19-09-05, 10:33

A brilliant thread which basically hi-lights all of Claire Weekes' beliefs! I'm working on this 'treatment' now and plan to be anxiety free in the near future. I will not let it beat me. Its not easy and thats a fact but I can see that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Every time I feel that I am focusing too much on my 'churning tummy' or my 'fast heartbeat' I go and read the book again which restores confidence in myself. I have MTV blairing at the moment which is working wonders and TODAY WILL BE A GOOD DAY!!!!

Good luck everyone! I KNOW I CAN DO IT AND SO CAN YOU!!

Piglet

19-09-05, 11:26

Wow guys,

I really enjoyed reading on about this, funny how some posts just seem to click in an unexpected way.

Trev and Nigel thank you so much for trying to put yourselves where I am and help me with my thinking etc. You both really have!!! Yes Trev I wholeheartedly agree with the exercise and my little trampoline and I are so the best of friends (building up on it all the time which is making me walk much much faster and less like a little old lady).

Nigel there were bits in your post that really made me chuckle!! I will take alot from what you said:

1. At this point in time don't analyse why I got the panicky feelings and just deal with the fact I have. Yes I got the scary feeling but don't remember quite how but that doesn't overly matter just at present.

2. Accept that I am going to feel like this when I'm out and it matters no more outside than inside (thanks Mico, Nigel & Trev).

3. Don't fight it or run from it - just pause for ten seconds to let the feeling wash over and go (does anyone else get a nice feeling of calm after the initial panic goes). Thanks Meg and Trac.

4. Try and work on self-belief - even if I get panic attacks for the rest of my life in public don't equate that with a negative personality trait and if that is part of who I am then so be it. That's a hard one as if you have a physical complaint no-one ties that in with your personality do they but somehow this seems to wander over into who you are. I may need continued reassurance on this one for awhile. I get cross with myself over this as I would never judge a person based on if they get panic attacks - I have a few aquaintences that do panic and I don't think of them any differently than I did before.

I also think In1peace and Jill had some very valid points to make.

Tell you what I did do this morning though, I had to post some things through the houses in our road which is quite a long road and I was going to wait for one of the kids to do it with me after dark (the agoraphobics favourite time) as I feel comfortable in that circumstance. Instead I have just done it on my own and in daylight. I got halfway up the road and yes the panic came, I was going to turn heel and run for home but instead paused, it passed and I continued on my way and finished what I set out to do.

I can't tell you what a help these types of conversations are with normal everyday folk. If I'd found this site 6 years ago I probably could have nipped this in the bud.

Big hug

Love Piglet xx[Wow!][8D][8D][8D][8D]

"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.

tygwyn

19-09-05, 12:27

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
Tell you what I did do this morning though, I had to post some things through the houses in our road which is quite a long road and I was going to wait for one of the kids to do it with me after dark (the agoraphobics favourite time) as I feel comfortable in that circumstance. Instead I have just done it on my own and in daylight. I got halfway up the road and yes the panic came, I was going to turn heel and run for home but instead paused, it passed and I continued on my way and finished what I set out to do.

Love Piglet xx[Wow!][8D][8D][8D][8D]

</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

That is brilliant news Piglet! May you get stronger day after day! WELL DONE YOU!!!!

pips

19-09-05, 12:44

Wonderful post Ambiance.

Thanks everyone for the wonderful fab imput.

I think Acceptance, perserverance, reassurance positive thinking and telling yourself it's ok to feel anxious just try to keep it under control and at a low level.

Good Luck everyone,

Take care,

Love PIP'S X X

mico

19-09-05, 13:04

Hi Piglet

Some good replies to your question already which I completely agree with. I thought I'd add another example though, just elaborating on what has already been said.

And yes, this is another golden nugget of Claire Weekes's wisdom (sorry, she's not paying me to do this, honest :D).

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
Now how do I take it PUBLIC when I am so scared of having a panic attack and being embarassed in front of other people and them thinking I'm looney (I can see I obviously have a major hang up here of what other people think of me and yet I don't want to be like that and tell my kids that they can't please all of the people all of the time).
<div align="right">Originally posted by Piglet - 18 September 2005 : 21:04:55</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

You may or may not recall reading this, but it's an example that makes perfect sense and is easy to relate to fgor a lot of people.

Imagine you have a problem with shaking. It's embarressing, right? No doubt this happens very little when you're in the house (which is where it relates to your problem), but when you go out and begin to speak to people, that's it, you're off, hands are going twenty to the dozen. Picture the moment; you're sitting in a cafe, trying to drink a cup of tea, you pick up the cup and you're visibly shaking. Tea is spilling from the sides of the cup, you go to put it back down and it's shaking off the saucer, clunk, clink, clinkety, clunk, non stop. By which time your face is startting to go red and you begin to shake more.

So, you try to pick up the cup with both hands, you shake less this way. But, you're still shaking. You can barely aim for your mouth, never mind get a sip of tea, and when you do, it dribbles down your chin.

All this time, you're fighting the shaking. You want it to stop so badly, it's making you look like a fool. Furthermore, the very idea that it's making you look a fool is causing you to shake more. It's a never ending cycle. If you continue to fight, then you're going to be shaking for a while yet.

What's the alternative?

The bottom line, is that you're going to shake whether you like it or not. You've got two choices. You can accept that you're going to shake, or you can fight it.

There's a certain subtley in this, that your mind thinks if you fight it, or try to hide it, then you'll get away with it. You can cover up all your vulnerabilities and no one will notice. The truth is, you'll have a very difficult task in trying to hide it, and if you try to, then you will just continue to shake more.

The key, is to let yourself open up to this vulnerability a little, no one will think any less of you. In fact, by doing this, people will most likely respect you more (you're going to shake regardless).

Let yourself shake.

When you let yourself shake, it becomes less of a concern. You can accept it, and it doesn't have to be a negative thing. You're shaking, so what. Pick up that cup, and let it shake. It'll soon stop. But stopping the shaking is not your goal, as soon as that is in your mind you're back to trying to control it. If it doesn't stop, then let yourself shake somemore, it's not like people never shake, people shake all the time. But by letting yourself shake you're no longer fueling the fire, it'll eventually burn out.

I think vulnerability can be a large factor in this. You really have to cross that line a little and open yourself up. We try to hide our vulnerabilities all the time, it's an evolutionary trait handed down from our caveman days. You will feel some kind of attachment to this will to hide your vulnerabilities, hide your weaknesses from predators. Letting yourself shake, is letting yourself be vulnerable, and in this sense you may be very relucatant to do it, but

trac67

19-09-05, 14:10

Hi Piglet,
Well done hun im proud of you, see by not letting it bully you it gets fed up and goes away. And i cant relate the feeling of calm after the panic rises, that happens to me too. Keep on posting those brochures hun, your doing well.
Take care
Trac xx

its "just a thought"

Piglet

19-09-05, 17:38

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
The key, is to let yourself open up to this vulnerability a little, no one will think any less of you. In fact, by doing this, people will most likely respect you more (you're going to shake regardless).

I think vulnerability can be a large factor in this. You really have to cross that line a little and open yourself up. We try to hide our vulnerabilities all the time, it's an evolutionary trait handed down from our caveman days. You will feel some kind of attachment to this will to hide your vulnerabilities, hide your weaknesses from predators. Letting yourself shake, is letting yourself be vulnerable, and in this sense you may be very relucatant to do it, but it is opening up to these vulnerabilities that will instill confidence. Self-confidence is acceptance in who you are.

Now go out and let yourself panic :D

By putting your weaknesses on display, you'll eventually become stronger.

mico
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

Gosh you've hit the nail right on the head but boy I am gonna find that so hard. I've spent much of my life hiding my vulnerablities particularly since my marriage breakup 10 years ago. Felt proud of the way everyone told me how well I was coping, bringing 3 kids up on my own etc etc it's a shame pride came before the fall.

I suppose I think that by saying I panic and I'm too frightened to go out on my own will make people think I'm not a fit mother or I'm slightly mad and I may end up in an institution doing something colourful with raffia matting.

Thank you Mico you are such a honey and so are you Trac. I promise to look at this admitting to my panic and not being ashamed of it. Not sure I can do it overnight though.

Lots of love

Piglet [:X]

mico

19-09-05, 18:18

Piglet

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote"> I promise to look at this admitting to my panic and not being ashamed of it. </td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

I feel like you've just put a gun to my head.

Practice what you preach and all that. Everyone who knows me here, knows that doesn't describe me! :D

It's amazing how you can have these thoughts and apparent cures whirling round your mind 24/7, yet someone can give a little input and you suddenly realise it isn't being applied at all.

Let's see if I can worm my way out of this one. Bearing in mind that the following may be a little biased due to my reluctance to admit my anxiety to people (It'll take a good argument to get me to do just that!).

Firstly, I said nothing about admitting. I said accepting, there's a difference.

Actually, I'm thinking about this, and I can't actually think of much of a way out of it. But one thing I'll say, is that if you can truly 'accept' then you can 'admit' with little effort.

As you get better at accepting, you'll get better at admitting.

Actually, I'd like to hear someone elses view on this, I think mine are too biased.

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Gosh you've hit the nail right on the head but boy I am gonna find that so hard. I've spent much of my life hiding my vulnerablities particularly since my marriage breakup 10 years ago. Felt proud of the way everyone told me how well I was coping, bringing 3 kids up on my own etc etc it's a shame pride came before the fall. </td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Not sure I can do it overnight though.</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

If you expected to be able to do this overnight, then you'd just be setting yourself up for a fall, it can't be done. It takes time and you need patience, especially since you may barely notice the changes, very much like you watch your kids grow, you see little change but then your friends come round who haven't seen you for ages and go 'wow, hasn't she grown!'.

It's not easy, and if anyone tells you they have a quick fix, they're a liar. But panicking isn't easy either, doesn't matter which way you go it's going to be difficult, so it would seem a wise choice to make positive steps forward beyond your comfort zone.

mico

'Security is mostly superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding Danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.'

trac67

19-09-05, 21:01

Hi Piglet and Mico,
First i was like you Piglet, i am able to hide my anxiety very well, hey would i want anyone to know that i cant cope with 'life', as that is what i thought. I am always the strong person, im the one who everyone comes to with their problems, i can always sort other peoples problems out, its my own i cant lol. And of course you wont succeed in what you are doing overnight, but each small step that you take, when put together is going to get you a long way on the road to recovery. Oh and by the way, if you go to that institute to make raffia baskets, take me too, i could do with the break lol.
Mico you are so not going to worm your way out of this one, and im ready for an arguement so bring it on lol. Seriously though (i can be sometimes), i agree with what you say about the accepting and admitting theory, you cant admit to something that you dont accept in the first place. I think once you accept that you suffer from anxiety, it is the first big step to recovery.
Love
Trac xx

its "just a thought"

Piglet

20-09-05, 08:47

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Seriously though (i can be sometimes), i agree with what you say about the accepting and admitting theory, you cant admit to something that you dont accept in the first place. I think once you accept that you suffer from anxiety, it is the first big step to recovery.
Love
Trac xx

</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

Spot on Trac!

It's just hard after all the years of being seen as a strong and coping sort of person to be then seen as some sort of fragile flower who suffers with her nerves (think the kids would crack up here 'fragile flower')!!!

I also see admitting as a double edged sword - yep marvellous to start accepting and admitting all over the place but could this work against you another time, like if you expressed an appropriate emotion in a situation but people disregarded it cos you suffer with 'nerves'. We can be very fond of labels in society and we all change and grow and I would hate to be given a label and the impression 'oh she won't cope she has bad nerves'.

.....and so we are back to acceptance again - that's not a good start is it.

Have any of you told friends or work collegues and if so what sort of a reaction have you had, good or bad???

Love Piglet xx

bluebottle

20-09-05, 10:21

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">People may be scared to open up their vulnerability</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

The human race is scared of opening up. We, who suffer with anxiety and depression, have just got it fine tuned. We have to do it though, it is the answer, hiding how we feel is not.

I have an elder sister who I love to bits yet I can't even open up to her, but I'm going to start. Gulp! At 44yrs of age my eldest sister will probably see me cry, now that is scary, and there is no reason it should be other than the fact that since my parents divorced when I was about 12yrs of age I have always hidden my pain.

We can do this guys, we're already doing it here aren't we?

--
Blue -
"Your truth is better for you than someone else's. Just get to know what it is, so you can finally own it, and speak it."

Meg

20-09-05, 14:15

**Tell you what I did do this morning though, I had to post some things through the houses in our road which is quite a long road and I was going to wait for one of the kids to do it with me after dark (the agoraphobics favourite time) as I feel comfortable in that circumstance. Instead I have just done it on my own and in daylight. I got halfway up the road and yes the panic came, I was going to turn heel and run for home but instead paused, it passed and I continued on my way and finished what I set out to do.**

Piglet, this is a massive step for you so many congratulations indeed.

About the acceptance and admitting thing. I accepted that I had panic and admitted it to those who needed to know BUT I never accepted or admitted to anyone it was a long term thing.
I always said - I'm having a rough time right now' or 'bad day' or 'please keep an eye on me I'm struggling a bit this week' but at no time was this going to be a long term thing as far as anyone else was concerned and it was admitted purely on a need to know basis and many people didn't need to know all of the story just the bits that they may witness or be asked to be part of.
Ok some people must have thought I was having a lot of bad days for several months but as I learnt to manage it internally, lose the visable symptoms I didn't need to verbalize it as much and thus everyone else presumed all was ok now.

I struggled long after most colleagues and friends thought it was all over.Think they thought it was an on/off tap or actually in retrospect, I doubt they gave it much thought at all.

**They might screw up and look foolish at times but it doesn’t bother them because they just don’t believe that they’re the sort of person who screws up and looks foolish. They can still accept that their actions can screw up and look foolish, but not them as a person*

I agree, I always worked with the principle that I had never cocked up or looked a **** before so if,if,if,if, I just happened to have a slip up one day and really freak out noone would judge me on it for long as a I had such a 'sensible' track record so could be excused as a momentary abberation. It may be office fodder for a bit but hey, I can think of people who add to that weekly and don't get thought of any worse really.

I also used past reference points to get me through the present day . I felt so bad on x day and didn't freak out, today is not that bad on the scale, so today will be a another good day and not a potential freak out day.

Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com

Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?

Piglet

20-09-05, 16:17

****About the acceptance and admitting thing. I accepted that I had panic and admitted it to those who needed to know BUT I never accepted or admitted to anyone it was a long term thing.

[i][right]Originally posted by Meg - 20 September 2005 : 14:15:18***

This is what I have done this far Meg but after six years of on and off anxiety and panic I feel abit like perhaps it is turning into a long term thing???

Nigel regarding using the word accepting and admitting - well I've never had a problem with admitting to myself I have panic but think there is a problem in the accepting dept.

I think on the whole I would only tell on a need to know basis as I still get it brought up by a neighbour regularly and I stopped telling her how I felt years ago, as it can be so undermining when you are feeling great or struggling again.

I suppose I am happy with my family and my best mate etc cos this is when I am at my most honest and open but feel safe to be so. They take it on but don't make a meal of it and make me feel important because I have other strengths which maybe they don't have.

Thanks guys, by writing it down, it often clarifies some of my thought processes and helps me see stuff.

Love Piglet :):):)

mico

20-09-05, 17:52

Everyone's made good well thought out replies here, which Im really appreciative of since, quite honestly, I was starting to get a little confused. I think about these things until I have random thoughts bouncing all round the place, by which time I need a little clarification to put them back into order.

The idea of acceptance can be confusing, but it's actually really quite simple.

Remember what I said before about this not happening overnight. You won't suddenly wake up tomorrow and accept all of your troubles. It's a long drawn out process.

I'm thinking that maybe the reason it is confusing, is that we try to accelerate the process, put everything into it's place and suddenly start living that 'ideal'. But, acceptance doesn't come from idealistic thinking.

If you're thinking about the future and how your anxiety is going to be oblitarated by your new found technique, then you're not accepting.

The first step is to accept to yourself that you do have anxiety, and accept that this isn't going to change overnight. Any further into the future is irrelevant right now.

My advice, would be to forget all of this, forget about admitting, forget any useless thoughts that I've probably added (apologies), forget anything that's irrelevant and bring yourself back, only to the idea of acceptance.

If a thought pops up in your head, say a niggling thought about how you feel this is beccoming a long term thing, then accept it and go back to what you're doing right now.

In fact, don't even worry about that too much.

Keep it as simple as possible.

When you get anxious, accept it. No need to think about the future, or how bad you're doing, or how well you've been doing up till now, you're in this situation and that's that, nothing can be done. In this specific example, accepting that this is the case will accelerate your progress tenfold. But, this is where it gets confusing, you shouldn't be thinking about accelerating your recovery. Just remember, when the moment comes, just play with what you've got in that moment, that's where all your tools are, when the anxiety comes, just accept it. Nothing more, nothing less.

I can guarantee that the next time you get anxious that you won't completely accept that fact. But, that's fine, Rome wasn't built in a day. Each time you try, you'll get better at it. Practice makes perfect.

Remember, it is only your attempts to push it away that fuels it.

Reading back, I don't think I really answered your questions, so if you have more, feel free.

mico

'Security is mostly superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding Danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.'

trac67

20-09-05, 18:00

Piglet,
I am the same as you with the whole telling people about my anxiety, my family and my best friend know, but i wont admit it to any one else unless i really do have to. The reason being is i dont want people to judge me because of it, stupid eh. Those of you who know me, will know i have a close relationship with my sunglasses (im not mad honest lol). I cant leave the house without them and they are on my head even when i am at home, i think if people look me in the eye they will see i am anxious and therefore judge me because of it, so my sunglasses are my security blanket against the world (uumm now i have written that down, im thinking maybe i am mad after all lol). If i can get away without having to tell people about my anxiety i will, which is stupid really as would i be afraid to tell them if i was say diabetic. I agree Piglet when we write this stuff down it does seem to be a lot clearer and makes us think a lot more.
Take care
Trac xx

its "just a thought"

mico

20-09-05, 21:03

Good example Nigel

Thanks

mico

'Security is mostly superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding Danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.'

Piglet

21-09-05, 09:52

<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Those of you who know me, will know i have a close relationship with my sunglasses (im not mad honest lol). I cant leave the house without them and they are on my head even when i am at home, i think if people look me in the eye they will see i am anxious and therefore judge me because of it, so my sunglasses are my security blanket against the world (uumm now i have written that down, im thinking maybe i am mad after all lol).
Take care
Trac xx

its "just a thought"

<div align="right">Originally posted by trac67 - 20 September 2005 : 18:00:11</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">

Omg - ditto!!!!!

I nearly spat my weetabix out laughing when I read that. I wear mine 24/7 too. I am a bit short sighted so they are my prescription sunglasses but that's not really why I love wearing them, it's for the same reason as you. Lol!!!!

Nigel that was a good example - when you apply a direct example like that it helps me see it in human terms rather than just words.

Mico, I think you're right about not getting too caught up in the whole analysing the why's and wherefores of acceptance and just chill a little. Really your post was a living in the present sort of a post which I think is a really good way to be.

I bought a good book awhile ago called something like that by Shannon Duncan. A real easy read and not too deep and I have a little affirmation card to remind me about living in the present.

I also thought that I would start to concentrate more on the strengths I possess rather than this one sticky area in my life. It was seeing a little bit that I put down about that, a few posts ago, that made me think I never praise myself for my achievements, yes I feel pleased but never say to myself 'what a clever sod I am'. Friends and family say it to me often enough bless em, but I'm so busy focusing on the anxiety side of things I don't really hear it - I'm gonna start listening!!!

This thread has been like a therapy session and FREE!!!!!

Very much appreciated.[Yeah!]

Love Piglet :):):)