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View Full Version : If it's not anxiety, it's depression



W.I.F.T.S.
31-10-05, 20:05
Thought I'd been doing really well handling my anxiety recently. I have a phobia of crossing bridges, because I have a compulsion to drive off them, yet I faced my fear and drove over Runcorn bridge twice at the weekend. I also made arrangements to start having music tuition. I even made the positive step of going to a golf course for the very first time (something that I'd been wanting to do for ages). And this morning, even though I didn't feel like it, I went swimming. I've done all these positive things, yet today I've felt really miserable and depressed. I don't understand it. If I'm not anxious, then I'm depressed or stressed or panicky. I've been trying so hard, I just want it to go away, so that I can lead a 'normal' life.

Ships in harbour are safe..but that's not what ships were built for.

nomorepanic
31-10-05, 20:50
I found it took me a long time to get over both the depression and the anxiety.

It takes time to retrain our bodies and minds and they both get used to living a certain way and we have "learnt" those ways so take a while to "unlearn".

It will come in time.

I too used to get frustrated by thinking that I had done the relaxation cd's every day for a month, I had chilled, I had done the breathing etc and why was I still feeling crap.

I guess what I am trying to say is that you have to sometimes ride along with it and keep at it. Stick at the routines and then the benefits will come. It was NOT overnight for me - took me over 8 years in all. I am not trying to scare you with those timescales cos I was left untreated for so long but even when I finally knew what to do it took a good year or so before I felt any real benefit.

Don't give in ok and it will come in time.

Nicola

desperate
31-10-05, 20:56
Hi i think the same a bit, but then also i think well i've learnt some of this stuff maybe even from childhood although it took a trigger for it to be a majot problem.

But i does take time just keep at it!

First Anxiety...then panic attacks...now GAD and depression...now working on a better future!

jill
31-10-05, 21:28
Hi

First I would like to say a big WELL DONE for going over Runcorn bridge, you faced your fear, be pround of yourself.
Sometimes we make progress and don't even know it because the progress is sooo small, but it IS progress.
You have done alot of positive things and your ARE moving forward, its just that it is a very slow prossess.

Don't say I thought I was doing very well. Tell yourself that you ARE doing well. Remember it takes time, You CAN learn how to feel better. Doing positive things and thinking positive thoughts will help you move forward.
I know its hard to find the positive thinking but keep trying, you WILL get there in the end.

TAKE CARE

LOVE JILLXX

Changing your negative beliefs is the first step in the transfrmation
process that will really make a difference in your life.

mum2four
31-10-05, 22:27
Is it a complusion or a fear thay may drive off the bridge. A complusion is something that you have to do when you get the erg the erg dosnt't go away unless you give in to it or the anxiety worsen's to a point of boiling point and you fear doing something oirsomething happing to you if you dont give in to it . A fear can be set off by a spike a thought or image acompanyied by a feeling of untence fear that sets off you fright flight fight instinct. Before starting to luvox(flavoxmine Meleate) I had both compulsion to rock and bank my head ect and spike's that would set of intence fear that i had to get away form. Luvox stop's the unwanted repeated messages your brian sends out that makes you feel like have to do something NOW or the intence fear that make you avoud thing's just incase. Sound more like a spike to me cause if it's was compulsion you would have done it by now. If it's a compulsion you need to get help NOW and if's a spike asking for help with med's may be something to look at doing.

W.I.F.T.S.
31-10-05, 22:38
Thanks for your advice everyone,
I suppose my recovery and shaping my life how I want it to be run along parallel lines- I get frustrated that the things that I am trying to do don't come to fruition more quickly and that keeps me in a depressed state. Although, and I've had this conversation with a counsellor, I do set myself huge targets.

I like the concept of having several boxes/compartments to your life (hobbies, education, 'contribution', friends, work...) that Susan Jeffers describes and I suppose I'm going from a position of only having one box (my relationship) to several boxes, which unltimately will serve me very well, but the process of spinning all those plates is a drain (sorry for all the metaphors!).

Certainly the thing that I find most difficult about this illness is that you do what you are supposed to do to combat anxiety and once that diminishes you come face to face with the underlying depression. It's like running through the gauntlet and being battered by all these formidable enemies (depression, anxiety, panic, stress). It really makes enjoying anything so difficult, because you're never fully relaxed and present in any situation.

I did think I'd had a revelation recently and that I was within touching distance of being well again. That's the frustrating thing: you can feel almost better one day and then horrible the next with no apparent reason and it just makes it so difficult to tarck your overall progress.

Ships in harbour are safe..but that's not what ships were built for.

W.I.F.T.S.
31-10-05, 22:53
Mum2Four> That's a new way of looking at it. I've had this for three years and never acted on the impulses, so I suppose it must be a spike rather than a compulsion. I get an intrusive thought, then the adrenaline and the fight or flight response- an hysterical fear comes over me and if it's really bad I have to control my breathing. I have the health anxiety too and every twinge or gurgle means I'm having a heart attack. I get myself worked up a lot too about my dad dying and I'm always building myself up to recieve the news.
I'm very reticent about taking medication since I was on Prozac for 4 months at the start of my illness and my 'spikes' became a lot more aggressive and violent and I began to suffer from depersonalisation, which I still have trouble with.

Ships in harbour are safe..but that's not what ships were built for.

mum2four
31-10-05, 23:02
I think I know what you mean I feel like the Luvox has taken away my erg's which were my coping method's and them i was left the underly thought process that cause me my erg's to kick in and while I felt good for about 3 week's hearing the underlying thought about every thing from stuff out of place to thing's going wrong and thing not working to plan ect but with out ther fear and the erg's that use to go hand and hand together it felt better over all but it was stil distracting to my day to day life and become more frusting with time that i could stop it. I'm now on a Benzo to calm the thinking and my my self so I get on with thing's an stop getting distracted so easy. finaly feel like I'm thinking in real time with not being cut of by thoughts neg or pos cut off alike. It was like someone was in my head channel ficking and I couldn"t drown it out with even loud music. I could keep it on the positive channel long enought to convince my brain to just give up tring to be negaitive.

I dont feel like i have to talk fast just to say what i want to say before it go's I dont feel like I have sift therw the thought to figure out the best one. It just a temp fix till i see the phycologist in 22 days.

paladin806
01-11-05, 00:14
Thats scary Nicola, such a long time to get things sorted. Dont know if i have that long or want to live with it that long. 8 yrs of this turmoil, grief and chaos. I thought it was a case of taking the meds and biting the bullet for a year or so, then it would all come right. That these dark days and blacker nights would soon be coming to an end. Think i need to have a bit of a rethink of my life, it would seem i have been a bit naive.
Take care all. John.

"I heard someone calling my name one day, so i followed that voice down the lost highway"

W.I.F.T.S.
01-11-05, 12:33
John> I think Nicola's is a very extreme example. Personally, I did go to the doctor very early on and I even asked for counselling, but I was told that it doesn't work and there was a year-long waiting list, so instead I was fobbed off with Prozac, which isn't the best drug for anxiety, but it is the cheapest! Luckily, I have a friend who works in mental health and he recommended that I see another doctor who, although, she wanted me to take another kind of anti-depressant, was happy to put me on the waiting list. I was seen within about six weeks!

That hasn't been the end of my troubles (I'm on the waiting list for a psycholgist at the moment), but I think the lesson is to make sure that you get the treatment that you need and not to be palmed off.

I've had plenty of times when I've thought I've been getting better and then the very next day felt like I was right in the middle of it again. I think the key thing is to understand your illness- know that if you are depressed it means that your seratonin levels are low, which can be helped with exercise and diet amongst other things. If you are feeling panicky, then recognise that it is just adrenaline and that constantly high levels of adrenaline can cause you to feel unreal. I know it sounds easy saying it, but it does help me to balance myself out.

Ships in harbour are safe..but that's not what ships were built for.

desperate
01-11-05, 13:08
Hi wish,

I liked that bit of your post

**know that if you are depressed it means that your seratonin levels are low, which can be helped with exercise and diet amongst other things. If you are feeling panicky, then recognise that it is just adrenaline and that constantly high levels of adrenaline can cause you to feel unreal**

Made me feel a lot better, simple isn't it really!

First Anxiety...then panic attacks...now GAD and depression...now working on a better future!

paladin806
01-11-05, 19:53
Thank you Wish, i really have been naive havent i. lol But not to worry, i am a fighter and i dont give in easy to anything. I have been fighting,( what i now know to be depression, )nearly all my life, and 15 months ago, it took over completely.
I suppose i am lucky, in a way, i am getting the chance to fight it, not live with it, but its hard. I wish to thank a good few people on here,for giving me,hope. Thank you . John

"I heard someone calling my name one day, so i followed that voice down the lost highway"

W.I.F.T.S.
03-11-05, 13:27
Paladin> You're at a great advantage if you can understand what is going on with your mind and body. I found it really helpful ready meg's tips on her website www.anxietymanagementltd.com. Say, for example, you are learning a new skill, the more you practice, your mind and body learn the routine and it becomes an automatic, instictive reaction. This is true both of getting better and of becoming ill in the first place. Maybe you feared doing something and so started avoiding it. With me, one of my phobias is bridges because I become anxious that I'll lose control of myself and drive off it. There have been plenty of times when I have driven the long way round to avoid a bridge. But I don't want to live like that. I want to confront my fears and so I went over a huge bridge twice last weekend.
A friend of mine is a keen skydiver, he's also travelled a lot and is now living in Washington. As far as I know, his dad has severe depression/ anxiety, so you would have thought that he'd be genetically predisposed to it and he might have been brought up being over-protected. Basically, he had plenty of excuses for avoiding things. Yet, I've never seen him scared of anything. He's always really excited and bursting with enthusiasm. The way I see it is that he has just gone out there and done the things that he has always wanted to do and each time he has done something his comfort zone and confidence has increased.
I was once told by a counsellor, and it's very true, that most of us say "I'll start going to the gym when I feel better about myself" or "once I'm more relaxed I'll take up a new hobby". The truth is that we must do those things first and then the confidence will come after through our own feelings of accomplishment and self-satisfaction. We're not going to wake up one morning the person that we've always wanted to be. It's a case of being proactive.
I'm already well off the point, so I might as well conclude with another tangent. I've just read Richard Branson's autobiography and it recounts how he had a difficult time at school because of his dyslexia and was actually expelled a few times. Also his first wife left him for another man and his first child died at birth. That is enough tragedy and hardship for one person, yet he didn't wallow in it, instead he learned from the experiences and it only added to his determination to succeed. He had every excuse available to him for giving up. He didn't allow himself to be a victim.
Just to end. I think recovering from anxiety/depression is one of the hardest things to do. With some people they take the meds and it sees them through the rough patch and they can carry on as normal. With others it is a real battle and the more weapons that you have in your arsenal the better (diet, talking therapies, medication, exercise, interests, self-help, alternative remedies...). I'm glad to hear that you've got fight though...You'll be ok!!

Ships in harbour are safe..but that's not what ships were built for.

Piglet
03-11-05, 13:46
Hi wish,

Firstly let me say that your quote is one of my all time favourites and always makes feel a little braver. I first read it in a Susan Jeffers book did you??

Secondly recovery time is a little like saying how long's a piece of string. It depends on so many things doesn't it.

Also recovery can sometimes mean different things to different people I guess when asked I think we all say well its to live without anxiety. That in itself is impossible as its not normal, we all had anxieties before too didn't we.

Possibly realistically its to be able to manage anxiety in your life in an acceptable way. I don't always think its to be as you were before, as it could be your bodies way of saying it didn't like the way you doing things before.

Life is a journey with us learning about ourselves along the whole trip.:)

Love Piglet:)

"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.

paladin806
04-11-05, 23:22
Hi again Wish, thank you for your reply and your advice. i also read Richard Bransons book, and while i admire the things he has achieved, his early life was a feather mattress compared to the early lives of some of us. Like him, i turned my life around, but things outwith my control, always seemed to conspire to bring the good times to an end. Dont get me wrong, i have never given up, or been scared of anyone, or anything. I have always been able to come back from the edge,able to inspire myself to overcome adversity, but now its somehow different. I dont CARE anymore, i dont want to fight on, but i just dont seem to be able to give in to it.
Anyway, thanks again and you are an inspiration to many, the way you are facing your fears. Good luck. John.

"I heard someone calling my name one day, so i followed that voice down the lost highway"

W.I.F.T.S.
05-11-05, 16:59
Hi John,

Sounds like you've got a classic case of depression- losing interest in everything.

The things that inspired me about Branson were that he makes the world seem like a small place- it's nothing for him to go to Africa, Asia or America (like when he flew back and to across the Atlantic waiting for his baby to be born and the right weather for his ocean crossing). I'd love to travel and I'm actually really envious of people who can just get on a plane and go to Europe for the weekend. The last time I was on a plane it was only for an hour and I had the most horrendous panic attack, so that when I got to Amsterdam I didn't even want to leave the room. The worst part was debating how to get back because I get just as panicky on water and the thought of the channel tunnel scares me stiff! Like when I went up the Great Orme in Llandudno though (and I thought if two old ladies can do it, I can do it!), if Richard Branson can go in a boat travelling at 200 mph or whatever across the 3000 miles of the Atlantic, then I can make the short trip to Liverpool or manchester.

One of the thoughts that really makes me anxious is that we are all basically on the surface of this giant rock, which is two-thirds covered in water and spinning around in space. I'll come out of my front door, look up at the sky and think 'Christ! The world stretches out for millions of miles all around me. I'm actually stood on the side of the world!' And that makes me feel very anxious and fearful. One time we were driving up to Carlisle and I had to keep stopping every few miles because I'd have anxiety that gravity would just stop and we'd go flying back or off into space and I'd think that there is thousands of miles of earth under our feets and that would freak me out.

I've started writing a list (another Branson thing!) of all my ambitions: to run my own business; to learn the guitar; to go to Glastonbury; to see an FA Cup Final... and I've found that that helps with depression, because I'm not putting everything off until I feel better, I'm doing things now and using the confidence boost that I get from accomplishing my goals to help my recovery. I read a good technique yesterday, and that is to close your eyes and imagine you doing the things that you want to do without feeling any fear, then to open your eyes again and to keep how it felt with you.

I think, John, that you've got a case of the glass is half empty. Branson lost his wife to another man, his first child died at birth, he's been on the verge of bankruptsy, he's had to sell his beloved business (Virgin Music) to keep the group alive, he's had many near death experiences, he's dyslexic and he's seen close friends die (Diana).... ofcourse it's helped that he's had a close family, but he didn't have that many advantages growing up, he had no/ very little qualifications and his family weren't fantastically well off. I don't know what difficulties you have had, John, but I think if you need a role model, then Branson is your man. He does have fear, but he never lets it prevent him from going out there and doing exactly what he wants to do. By facing fear and going through it, that is how you grow and that is how you find your next challenge.

One thing that I read in Susan Jeffers' book yesterday which struck a chord with me is that we are all "unfolding people"- none of us is ever the finished article, we are always learning, developing and becoming ourselves.

Ships in harbour are safe..but that's not what ships were built for.

Franz
03-04-08, 21:13
I'm already well off the point, so I might as well conclude with another tangent. I've just read Richard Branson's autobiography and it recounts how he had a difficult time at school because of his dyslexia and was actually expelled a few times. Also his first wife left him for another man and his first child died at birth. That is enough tragedy and hardship for one person, yet he didn't wallow in it, instead he learned from the experiences and it only added to his determination to succeed. He had every excuse available to him for giving up. He didn't allow himself to be a victim.

WIFTS,

I agree with your basic point, but I don't think a few traumatic events constitute "tragedy". Successful people often play up the "hardships" they've overcome, but in many cases they're blessed with a thick skin. Personally I don't think a wife leaving you and a child dying are "enough tragedy and hardship for one person" - there are people who've been through FAR worse, like torture that left their nerves in shreds for life, or losing their whole family, or getting horrific chronic diseases.

I think the word "tragedy" is bandied about too lightly these days. For most of human history, the average lifespan was less than 50, death and disease were constant threats, and losing at least one child was practically the norm. We're so insulated from real hardship that we've developed unrealistic expectations of happiness, a reluctance to accept death as a fact of life, and a tendency to describe any setback as a tragedy.

I must admit I'm writing this because to be honest I don't like Richard Branson, but that's another story :)

Francis

Richie
16-04-08, 13:09
Hi francis,
this was a thread which i read when i just couldn't reply but now i would like to cause i thought about it alot
I have read your other threads and you write some really good stuff:yesyes:
However with this one i felt a bit annoyed about because you were saying that losing a child or bereavements or divorce didn't really constitute a tragedy. True these are everday events hundreds every minute i should think.
But the pain that each individual goes through when losing a beloved child, relative, pets or the shock and trauma of a seperation or divorce is something very tragic and real to that person.
Also you say about how there are worse things in life but how do you know that the members on NMP have not gone through such things as rape , torture, assault, held at knifepoint etc
We none of us really tell our whole stories so how would you know?
Sorry i had to answer this because i wanted to get back to it when i felt well enough to.
Sorry Francis don't mean to cause a stir and no hard feelings
Luv Richie xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

Richie
16-04-08, 19:23
How do others feel about this ??
Luv Richie xxx:flowers: :flowers: :flowers:

PUGLETMUM
16-04-08, 20:48
:hugs: firstly, is wifts still reading thre thread? anyway i agree in some part with both you richie and francis - first losing a child is 100% a tradgedy, im assuming your not a parent francis to say this? anyway far too many people DO talk about all sorts of trivial stuff happening as if it were catastophic - i first read about this in susan jeffers book feel the fear and do it anyway - and i totally agreed with her. the thing is depression and anxiety tend to make you think in terms of tradgedy when in reality if you werent anxious or depressed or bith you would have better perspective - but also some people may feel utterly distraught at a divorce or death - i would!!! but i would still know that there are worse things that can happen:weep: i think people think in terms of terrible, horrible, horrid, nightmare,awful etc coz they are depressed, but some things are poo - feelin gill with anxiety and downright stuck and lost with depression is pretty bad - but it can be changed whereas being a vivtim of crime or disaster leaves you totally out of control and so that could be desribed as tragic, but all other stuff is 'trauma' it doesn thave to be so tragic to be trauma?:hugs:

joannap
16-04-08, 21:58
i have to agree with richie. i think its very flippant to compare someone leaving you to a child dying and i would have thought that most people who have lost a child would say that they would rather go through anything else. we usually get over loved ones leaving us in time because we realise eventually it was for the best - that that person did not want to be with us but loosing a child must be the worst thing ever - you just cannot justify it or come up with a good reason why it happened. i know of 2 sets of parents who have lost a child and it colours the rest of their lives.

however - francis does have a point in that i think because we generally have much easier lives compared to say 100 years ago that we do consider trivial stuff to be much worse than it actually is - we cannot get a perspective. i personally think that this is because we have time to think too much - years ago when your constant worry was keeping a roof over your head etc - there probably was no real time to focus on anything else. i have researched my family tree and my great great grandma had 9 children and was a single mother, lived in total poverty, watched several of her children die and worked all hours in the mill - i in comparison live a life of total luxury but may not be actually any the happier for it. we do place too much emphasis on aiming to feel "happy" all the time and believe it is a "right".

i have lived with anxiety (terrible at times) for 13 years and have suffered some very difficult times in my life (times of constant physical pain due to illness and emotional pain in childhood due to parents divorce etc). however - i try to live with anxiety and live my life to the fullest. i always find it quite surprising if people feel sorry for me as i do not feel sorry for myself and i simply think that what you go through makes you stronger and more appreciative of the simple things.