Intrusive Thoughts [Archive]

kathee

06-12-09, 00:22

hi there ..... maybe you are giving them too much power, but that i mean you are trying tooooooo hard to banish these thoughts, rather like me and chocolate when i am on a diet:) best thing to do is when you have these thoughts, allow them to materialize then just dismiss them by saying to yourself "oh that was just another silly thought" then think no more of it, also the "Am i feeling better thought" is a trigger, so when you think that say to yourself .... maybe i am or maybe i am not but so what? ... the main thing is do not try and ward them off just let them be, then dismiss them for what they are silly, intrusive thoughts . hope this helps :-)

Desprate Dan

07-12-09, 07:08

Kathee is right, someone on here once put it these thoughts are like "Birds flying over your head the key is not to let them nest in your hair" just let them come into your mind but let them pass through, the more you push them away the more you think about them and they come back, just let them in and back out again but just remind yourself thats all they are is thoughts they cant harm you or others unless you act upon them, so just let them be exactly what they are just silly thoughts....

Dan

Wolfy

07-12-09, 09:03

hi all

i used to suffer from these thoughts too...really bad...."gonna kill my wife, throw my baby son down the stairs, etc oh and an interesting one..when driving on the motorway, in the outside lane, id think,,,"all i have to do is turn right (into the central reserve) and kill us all !!"

As you know thoughts like these are very very upsetting....

But guess what....i now dont suffer with them....ever....at all....

Know why ?

Well pm some therapy course i was on, the following comments where made to me by a therapist....they cured me (over time)

1. people who will ACTUALLY kill/hurt others, or themselves, dont get upset/anxious becuase of the thoughts......they only think about not getting caught !.....so unless you are thinking "how do i get away with it" you dont have much to fear :)

2. a senior therapist told me that when they all go on training days,,,during their meal breaks....to relax....they actually try and think up the kind of terrible thoughts that upset me and you....but they do it just for fun and relaxation !!!! they mean that little :)

3... (on of mine) think about the most terrible/gory/upsetting/disgusting horror film you have ever seen.......the type that makes you shrink back in your chair in terror !

well....all that horribleness came from the directors own mind !!!!!

i think what im trying to say is...just because you think it, doesnt mean you will ever follow it through.....

hope this helps a bit

love

Wolfy:yesyes:

Kerrigan

07-12-09, 10:01

I get these thoughts in a morning, I'll be lying in bed and suddenly all these images flood into my mind of me having parasites, having worms and headlice (I have NONE of those things!) or touching myself inappropriately or killing children. The reason I think those things is because I love someone but can't be with him and I think he can read my mind in the powerful dark stillness of the morning.

Instead of transferring sexual thoughts (gone are the days when I'd feel horny in a morning like every normal person) I end up screwing up my face and saying 'no, no' when a nasty image pops into my mind.

One thing that struck me about your post was that you asked you mind the question 'am I feeling better?' this almost invites those thoughts back because you're trying not to think of them.

s8647

07-12-09, 18:04

Hi,

Thanks for all the replys. These last four days have been really hard trying to fight these horrible thoughts. I'm due to see a 'specialist' about my 'thinking' which my GP has put me forward for. As of yet I have not been diagnosed with any disorder. However I don't get to see anyone until January, which seems so so far away. Earlier in the year I had a problem that I heard of a friend's friend suddenly passing from a brain hemorrhage. This got into my head just the way these thoughts have and they tortured me badly. But I came out of it just like I will this I know I can. But at the minute my life feels rubbish and controlled by these thoughts. I'm always in a state of panic about the thoughts, I don't want to go through Christmas like this, it is usually my favorite time of year. I feel like I will be letting my family and my partner down so much as my thoughts take up so much of me half of the time I'm like a zombie, emotionless. However I don't feel like I could tell them about the thoughts as it would just scare them away. Just to put across the kind of person I am, I'm the kind of person who would pick up a spider from inside the house and put it in the garden, not just hit it like some, life is precious.

Maj

07-12-09, 20:07

You mentioned the spider thing - if you look at some of my posts you'll see that I say most of the time the people who suffer from these thoughts are sensitive, caring people who wouldn't hurt a fly (or spider!!!). I know it's difficult but please try not to fight the thoughts, that only makes you more tense and more afraid. They are only thoughts - they can't do anyone any harm - they depend on your dislike of them to keep happening. That's why they happen and torment you so much. Try and let them wash over you when they happen and carry on with what you were doing. Don't let them matter. When they don't matter they stop happening so much. And even if they do they don't have the same power. I know it's difficult but if you accept and relax you will get there. Claire Weekes mentions them in her books so it shows you they are a common symptom of anxiety - you are not alone.
Myra:hugs:

Alicat

07-12-09, 21:54

Can I post here too? I don't want to start another thread.

I've started having horrible thoughts again. They did go away for a while. I am disabled (I'm in a wheelchair) and I work with people with physical and learning disabilities. I love helping them and making them happy.

But...I keep thinking 'well they (and I) shouldn't still be here. If it wasn't for other people keeping us here and us having to rely on them, we'd die. It's not natural' I know they're just thoughts and I wouldn't want to treat anyone with a disability badly. I care about them as people and they and their well-being matters as much as anyone else.

I'm still having the thoughts and they're really getting to me. :weep:

Maj

07-12-09, 22:37

Hi Little Ali, I'm really sorry you are having these thoughts. It's a shame that someone like you who is helping other people to feel better feel so low yourself at times. Please try not to be disturbed by these thoughts. You don't deserve to have to feel like this. Being disabled must be testing at times and I salute you. We take so much for granted when we have the use of all our limbs. So please, don't feel bad about your thoughts, you are only human and must feel a bit overwhelmed at times. And congratulations for the good work you do. You are a credit to yourself.
Myra x:hugs:

Wolfy

08-12-09, 09:08

hi S8647

you know why you suffer with these thoughts ? its simple....in fact the reason most of us suffer anxiety in the first place is simple....its simply because WE CARE...think about it....a mad axe murderer doesnt get anxiety, doesnt get intrusive bad thoughts..because he couldnt care less about his fellow man....

after speaking to quiet a few of my friends who have sufered but come out of the othe side so to speak, most of them would tell you :-

1. obviously the person they are now and the person they were before anxiety are VERY different.
2. most of them prefer the person they are now to the person before anxiety struck (i say again these people have found their way passed most anxiety issues)
3. anxiety has its positives !! yes really !! :)
4. for me..my anxiety has made me a more compassionate person, one who "can now noticed the suffering in others, AND a person who is willing to help anyway i can

i couldnt have said this pre anxiety......

A tip for the bad thoughts issue.....EVERYONE gets the odd "dodgy thought" from time to time....its called being human,,,,problem is that because us anxious people fear so much, our minds look at the thought with horror...this horror gives the hought power...and hence it returns time and time again....

Is there a cure ? yes i think so...this worked for me....when a thought comes in....dont fear/flinch,,,,,take hold of the thought (and this will freak you) try to make the thought WORSE.....

example your thought " im going to kill my new born son"

what you do with it now is "OH MY GOD IM SUCH A BAD PERSON WILL/COULD I REALLY DO THIS IM SOOO HORRIBLE...ETC ETC ETC"

What you should do with the thought...make it very much worse !!

eg "yes im going to throw him downstairs...then kick him into the kitchen, get all the sharp knives and cut him to pieces..etc etc im sure you get the idea..."

this will set of your anxiety almost straight away....but as you continue making the thought sooo terrible, you WILL get fed up of it...the process will get boring to you (honestly it will)

you will get to the point that when the original thought comes in...instead of greating it with horror ,,,you will great it with bordom !!!cant be bothered attitude to the thought.......

this is when you have won,,,you are giving the thought no power....and the thought will diminish....and eventually not return......(ive been there this worked for me)

sorry its a long post but do so hope it helps...

regards

wolfy

Mentorman

08-12-09, 09:50

Ask GP for Clomipramine - excellent for OCD

Alicat

08-12-09, 17:07

Thanks for the advice Wolfy. I'll give that a try. It makes sense.
Myra, thanks. I just plod along like the rest of us. Yeah, I guess being disabled can be overwhelming sometimes. I just don't understand why I seem to be having these horrible thoughts and others don't. I guess there must be something in it...the way I feel about myself maybe. I have an appointment with my therapist on Thursday now so hopefully she can help,

Sweetpea6

08-12-09, 17:39

s8647-

I understand how distressing these thoughts are. You probably feel plagued by them- I had a similar experience when I was 11 and my mum flew out to Germany to visit her brother. The whole weekend my mind was invaded by the thought "I hope her plane crashes." Obviously I didn't, but the thought was still there. I'd kind of forgotten this til now actually, but can see how it links in with my anxiety.

I'm sure you've heard this many times before, but the best advice is don't fight it. I never understood what 'not fighting it' meant until recently, when I started to get the hang of it. Basically, think about your reaction to the thought. e.g. 'I am going to kill someone'. Normally, you would probably tense up, start pacing around the room, wringing your hands and thinking 'No, no, no, aaaaargh, oh my goodness, what if I do? Go away, stop it!' etc.

However, next time it happens: 'I am going to kill someone' just say to yourself, calmly: 'Ok.' 'Fine.' 'You can think that.' And carry on as normal. Don't rise to the bait- anxiety feeds off itself, so don't fuel it by reacting to it.

I bet in a few months time, or however long, you'll suddenly think 'Oh yeah. I used to have those weird thoughts. Hmm, yeah I remember that', then you'll carry on with your day.

It'll all sort out. Best wishes.

Great advice by the way Wolfy.

s8647

08-12-09, 18:28

Thanks for all the responses! I'm going to try and put some of the great advice you have all given. Hopefully it will all pass, I really hope before xmas!

Thanks everyone.

s8647

09-12-09, 17:25

Hi again. Been trying to put some of your advice into practise and was having a bit of a better day yesterday and today up until I just got home from work. The house is empty and I saw the knife block on the kitchen side. Suddenly horrible thoughts were in my head to cut my wrist, and panic set in because the thoughts where really strong! Hopefully I'm making progress no matter how slow... Cheers all.

S

Alicat

09-12-09, 17:31

I'm glad you've had a few better days. I've been better today too. I haven't been getting any urges but have had them in the past, when I've got depressed.

I hope you get to see the specialist soon. I'm debating going back to my GP but I don't know what they'd suggest. I know that counselling is what I need and I've already gone through alot with someone. I'm seeing her tomorrow. I just wish it would stop...as I expect you do!

s8647

09-12-09, 17:55

Hi Ali, i think the one thing that is my main problem is when I see a knife now? It's like it has built up an association to my intrusive thoughts about hurting myself or others. When I see them it triggers the thoughts. I know how your feeling,

starlight78

09-12-09, 21:30

Hi There,
I can so relate to what your describing.. I have a very similar reaction to knives, but I think now its a learned response.. I totally agree with the brilliant advice already here. It is pointless to try and fight anxiety and intrusive thoughts. The fighting just makes it worse. Try as much as possible to remember that the thoughts are just a symptom and let them wash over you... consciously make an effort to relax and let your limbs go loose and say this is just a symptom.
A trick i use is to immediately think of a cute, cuddly benign thing immediately after the distressing thought ie a puppy or Mickey Mouse or even a funny scene from a movie.. It kind of takes the sting out of the intrusive thought.
Lots of luck to you xx

Wolfy

10-12-09, 18:09

Knives

they are an easy one :)

our minds pull together all the things we have in our brains about stuff....

for example.....

you pick up a knife to butter your toast...your brain says to itself..."ah a knive....yes i can butter, slice, sharpen a pencil etc etc...stab, fillet, etc etc"

your anxiety driven mind picks up on the words stab/slice etc and add anxious thoughts like slice my babys hand off,,,,or stab my darling wife...etc......

all this chit chat happens automatically and very quickly so all you actually feel is the horrible thought.....your anxiety recognises this thought,,,and guess what...adds adrenalin, and BOMB panic sets in......

whats important is like i said in my last post....everyones mind associates a knive with buttering AND KILLING...EVERYONES MIND DOES....

But onlly an anxious mind picks up and holds onto the KILLING story.

Like i said,,,,you will never do anything with the knife other than butter your toast :) all you have to do is believe that,, :)

Alicat

10-12-09, 20:20

Thanks for that advice Starlight.

I had an appointment with my therapist this morning and she was great- as always. She was saying the same as Wolfy; that everyone has dodgy thoughts because our brains have stored everything we've ever heard and any of these can be triggered at any time. I was thinking about some of these like when I'm driving, 'If I swerved right now, I'd kill loads of people'. I have no intention of doing anything like that so I let it go, but if I have a thought that hits a nerve, like the one about disability I let it bother me and analyze it. That makes me feel worse and makes me even more anxious. We knew that though, eh? It's accepting it and putting it into practice.

She gave me an analogy. You're blindfolded in a field with lots of holes everywhere. Someone asks you to walk to the other side of the field but you have no chance cos you're blindfoled. You decide the way out of the problem is to start digging so you dig and dig. After a while someone throughs you down a ladder but you're so convinced the way out of the problem is to dig that you dig with the ladder too. Digging (i.e trying to find answers to your thoughts or make sense of them) has the paradoxical result of making the hole deeper. So-if you're having intrtusive thoughts, don't try and find answers if there aren't any. They're just thoughts.

She suggested next time I have instrusive thoughts, picture a ladder.
I hope this makes sense!

I'm seeing her again after Christmas so I'm hoping things will be better by then. I'm also going to try and eat better!

lukec

14-11-10, 03:53

Hello All,

I have extensive experience with intrusive thoughts about family members, animals or anything else capable of being worried about, THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO MANAGE THESE THOUGHTS IS TO BE WILLING TO HAVE THEM IN YOUR MIND. initially this is hard as they invoke so much anxiety. The more time you spend fighting them the stronger they become. We need to change your relationship to the thoughts and their affect over us will decrease.

The reason we all freak out about them is because we are not willing to have them.

The reason why we are not willing to have them is because we confuse the image of the thought in our mind with the actual event it refers to, sometimes called "cognitive fusion". EG. You are driving your car and have the thought of steering it into an on coming tree killing you and your children. The only place that thought exists is in your mind. You still have the ability to have that thought but not act on it. Having that thought does not mean you want your family to die. You can still drive right past the tree and carry on without everyone dying.

The best way to reduce the affect of the thoughts is to change our relationship to them and allow them in our mind when they want to be.

The worse thing you can do is actively avoid the object which is causing the "spike" in anxiety, as this builds the fear in your mind, because it sends fear signals to your subconscious mind. You must seek help and use CBT and exposure therapy.

I largely treated myself after many wrong diagnosis from doctors, I have obsessional thoughts but they do not affect me anywhere near the degreee they did previously because I go about me life and take no notice of them. I am willing to have them.

Regards and take care.

gaaron

14-11-10, 04:24

A good post! I read it to see if it was similar to my fears. I don't think I'm going to harm anyone. I just feel that I'm going to lose control and swerve the car - especially when driving over bridges!

lukec

14-11-10, 08:43

I am glad I can help someone, as I spent 5+ years in a state of panic, anxiety and depression which was fuelled by "intrusive thoughts".

You mentioned that you don't worry about killing people, just swerving on bridges.

The actual topic of the thought is irrelevant, whatever thought panics you and you try to force from your mind will increase in intensity.

Its important you still drive your car and especially drive over bridges.

I faced my own "spike themes" by purposely seeking them out and sitting through the panic/anxiety. Trust me its impossible to die from panic and anxiety because if it were possible I wouldn't be here.

If I were you I would find a bridge and drive over it while having the thought that you are going to crash off the bridge. Stay in the moment of driving, if you sit through this, you will prove to yourself that you can have the thought but not act on it. You will still be able to drive over the bridge, your mind will not go on "auto pilot" or something ridiculous and drive you off the bridge . Then make it a game, see how many bridges you can drive over in a day, exaggerate the anxious outcome in your mind, exaggerate it so much that the ridiculousness makes you laugh.

This is the basis of Exposure and Response Therapy and, I think the best way to decrease you panic and anxiety.

Making fun of your obsessions is an excellent idea, which lessens there impact. When you wake in the morning, laugh to yourself and say "I will drive off 5 bridges this morning", then 6 tomorow"

Best of luck

riawads3

15-11-10, 10:14

When

riawads3

15-11-10, 10:21

When i was at the peak of my OCD i used to come on nomorepanic.com every day.. sometimes more than once just to check that i wasnt the only one who suffers with these awful awful thoughts and I wasnt!! Today is the first day i have been on in atleast 3 months, and it feels brilliant! Last christmas i was tginking that this would never go away, that i would rather die than feel like this but EVERYTHING passes in time. My recovery was especially down to a mental health worker i used to go and chat to, and to anyone who (like me) was afraid of saying their anxiety- dont be, they have heard it alllllll before. The woman i went to see didnt even blink her eye and i told her some crazy horrible thoughts. Wolfy you are exactly right in how to let your thoughts go away- once the thoughst get as bad as they can be they cant get an worse! so you stop bothering about them as much and eventually they dissappear altogether :)
Dont get me wrong- in periods of high stress/anxiety the thoughts do come back to me but my god they are so much easier to deal with! And then after a couple of days of stress they dissppear again :). so to anyone who has such awful terrifying thoughts THEY DO GO AWAY AND YOU ARE NORMAL!!
Take care wadzy xoxoxoxx

cathy s

17-02-11, 22:43

Thanks for the useful advice

RLR

18-02-11, 02:28

One of the most common patterns of ruminations that trouble persons with anxiety disorder is the fear of losing control, particularly by impulse. Patients often describe standing among loved ones with an urge to impulsively and without warning seize a nearby object that under the right circumstances could be deadly and invoke shocking violence toward the unsuspecting group around them. It is sensed that one will suddenly give way to their perceived lack of internal control because an object of risk is within their grasp and the separation they feel from actually performing the horrific act is perceived to be extremely narrow, almost unavoidable. It is like walking the cliff's edge with the constant and compelling fear that impulsively jumping might arise simply because the risk is near.

Fearing a loss of impulse control is a very common feature of anxiety. This type of sensation, however, does not represent the kind of perspective within persons who actually demonstrate a psychotic break and engage in mayhem and violence toward others.

Also realize that much of these experiences are the result of the brain's effort to compel the mind to exercise fearful circumstances to the extent they no longer represent a threat. The more you attempt to simply repress such thoughts, the more compelling they become. From purely a survival perspective, it is an instinctual process which the brain forces to the surface until it can be resolved and subsequently assimmilated into the individual's psyche as syntonic. In other words, conflicts that are deemed ego-dystonic are those which are compelling but unwanted and fear-invoking, by contrast to thoughts and beliefs which are ego-syntonic or highly acceptable and comforting as part of the psyche.

The key to reduction of the compelling nature of dystonic thoughts is to openly dissect them for greater understanding of precisely why they arise. By contrast, the act of suppressing these unwanted thoughts is the very direction which will bring about intense conflict and objection, sometimes to the point that the patient will seek intervention.

Best regards,

Rutheford Rane, MD (ret.)

cathy s

18-02-11, 08:06

That is a great post RLR. It's very helpful to have a full understanding of what is going on.
Do you think that a fear of harming oneself works on the same principle? I have been worrying about this for some months and have been seeing a councillor who I'm not sure had been very helpful. She told me last week that maybe part of me doesn't want to be here and part of me does, which threw me into anxiety. I have always maintained that I am afraid of harming self rather that having any intent. She also points out that have had anxiety for so long that I must be tired of it, again adding to my evidence that I may want to really do it. If I rationalise it, I think she is just making me see that I need to change my way of dealing with worry and anxiety that will get me better in the long run. But the way she words things makes me feel I will suffer for the rest of my life, and may be at risk of what I'm afraid of. I am on citalopram for the second time (4 weeks on 20mg) and this anxiety is causing me to worry they are not working this time around. So generally I'm getting in a bit of a state!
Sorry to put this out there but I value your opinion. Although I am aware that seeking reassurance is one of my unhelpful behaviors and maybe I shouldn't have written all this!!! Oh Dear!! What to do for the best?!!

Cathy

vic003

19-02-11, 02:51

I just always replace those kinds of thoughts with good ones. Like... I love my daughter so much.. I want to hug her and squeeze her. Then soon the thoughts gradually disappeared.

Captain Caveman

19-02-11, 09:02

I just always replace those kinds of thoughts with good ones. Like... I love my daughter so much.. I want to hug her and squeeze her. Then soon the thoughts gradually disappeared.

From personal experience, trying to reassure yourself with a comment like "I love my daughter" woulld result in a "but what about the time.....?" or "but what if you suddenly stop loving her in .01 seconds from now and kill her?" etc..

Living with uncertainty is the anitodote. I now can confidentally say that I don't think I will go on a shooting rampage and kill a bunch of people. But neither myself - or anybody else in the world - can say 100% that one day they won't snap and do so.

It's not pleasant to have to give up certainty and control etc.., but it's how you break the cycle of fear, doubt, reassurance, doubt, reassurance, doubt, reassurance, doubt.