Deep Space 9

[NoPoet]

I just wanted everyone to know that Star Trek: DS9 is the most under-rated show I've ever seen, even more so than Angel. This opinion is relevant to NMP because every time I watch DS9, I forget that I'm a jobless layabout with man-flu.

http://mcsearcher.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/18_star_trek_deepspacenine_crew_wallpaper_l.jpg

Look how happy the bloke on the right looks. He knows DS9 rules. And look, John Sergeant is standing next to him.

PS I don't care if this makes me a Trekkie.

"That's why you came to see me, isn't it, Captain? Because you knew I could do those things you weren't capable of doing. Well, it worked! And you'll get what you want - a war between the Romulans and the Dominion. And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant, and all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal, and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain."
- Garak, DS9 episode "In The Pale Moonlight"

[loli1982]

hate to disagree, but better than angel? dunno about that.

[NoPoet]

I just feel that DS9 became fantastic and stayed that way til the end.

Angel lost it in series 5, I thought it became a parody of itself, they killed most of the main cast (Wesley, Fred and Cordelia) and bringing Spike in took all the focus off Angel himself. And Angel signed away his future in the space of a moment. That was supposed to be the whole point of the show -- his fight for redemption.

I loved it how Wesley went all desperado in series 4 and Angel became a villain. That was amazing.

[eeyorelover]

I'm a closet Trekkie myself but my favs are Next Generation and Voyager and of course the original!!!
;)

Deep Space Nine was really great but I stopped watching it every week when the Dominion storyline started!
I don't know the gel like out of the soup people trying to take over the universe was a little much for me!
LOL

[BabyRachel]

Angel was crap compared to Buffy. The best thing about Angel was that it had Cordelia and eventually Spike in it!! And only cos they're from Buffy!!


Im buffy obsessed by the way. Don't get me started. lol

[99% dead inside]

Hahaha :roflmao:

This thread is funny :D

I like watching Star Trek on Virgin 1. It's on EVERYDAY!! TNG, then Voyager, then DS9!
DS9 is the worst out of the three I think. Sorry!! :D

It's just that the head of security guy really annoys me! :curse:
Not Quark, not Neelix or Worf but that stupid guy with the greyish hair. Todo or tolo or whatever.
If it wasn't for him I'd watch it more. :lac:

If it wasn't for Colm Meanie, Angel would be better.
Only joking, Angel is poo. :yahoo:

[loli1982]

ha ha, my afternoon revolves around virgin 1s trekkie trio as well, god bless digital tv!
im still sticking up for angel though, it was just awesome, sorry but it was!:D
louise

[eeyorelover]

Angel is a hottie but after they killed off Fred and turned her into a blue demon goddess thing I quit watchin!
LOL

[NoPoet]

Some quick reviews I did earlier, backed up by some research:

Buffy v Angel

Buffy: A show about a whiny teenage girl who resents being a Slayer, while her friends try to find ways to pay the mortgage. Oh, and there's a demon or whatnot that gets beaten immediately so we can get back to the teenage stuff. And the speeches.

Angel: A brooding, angry show about a group of outcasts and loners who fight evil street by street, knowing they will never find redemption but fighting evil anyway, and everyone gets killed at the end.

I know which show appeals to me ;)

Star Trek

Enterprise: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw5vfCgBJxs) Tremendously botched attempt to show contemporary humans mixing it with Klingons and Vulcans, with Scott Bakula giving a terrible performance until he relaxes into the role, but some episodes were outstanding and the third and fourth seasons are among the best Trek has offered. A fan campaign is still going to get this programme back on air.

The Original Series: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5Wof-3kFKs) Sexist, racist, recently updated with modern-day special effects, recently relaunched with an epic action-adventure film. My least favourite of all the Treks but symbolises Gene Roddenberry's vision of hope for our future.

The Next Generation: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0_70d-KVe4) By the time the unbearable cheese of the first 2 seasons were in the bin, TNG had matured into a timeless legend and watching an episode of the later seasons is like spending a day with a bunch of intelligent, beloved friends. Represents Trek at its height of popularity.

DS9: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s-nDssQRtI&feature=related) The most overlooked Trek. Gritty, dark, with a higher level of violence and threat, this is the only Trek to incite dislike and conflict between the human characters, rejecting Roddenberry's ideals that all humans had grown past stuff like that. Some episodes had aggressive fight scenes cut down. Also, this is the only Trek that has a constantly evolving storyline from day one, in which we see the characters grow and progress. The episode titled "In The Pale Moonlight" is probably my favourite episode of Trek, rivalled by the Enterprise episode "Damage", which is also unrelentingly horrible. DS9 also features by far the most impressive space battles I've seen.

Voyager: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdG_kxttT0M&feature=related) Originally may have been intended as quite dark and demoralising to reflect the idea of a crew dragged 75 years away from home, but that idea was rejected in favour of making Voyager fast-moving, entertaining and often very light-hearted as a possible remedy to DS9's sometimes quite shocking storylines. Later seasons feature numerous continuity moments between Voyager and DS9, and integrate Voyager convincingly into the timeline.

[eeyorelover]

The only thing that I would not agree with is the sexist and racist comment about the original.
It was definitely not racist as it had the first black female regular cast member. Yes women were more arm candy for Jim Kirk than substantive characters but that was the era not actually the show itself.

[99% dead inside]

ha ha, my afternoon revolves around virgin 1s trekkie trio as well, god bless digital tv!
im still sticking up for angel though, it was just awesome, sorry but it was!:D
louise

Ha! Nice to know I'm not alone! :yesyes:

God knows what we'll do when they...dun dun DUUUNN...change the schedule!
I can't bare watching crap like World's Most Wildest Police Chases, or My Wife and Kids... :scared15: :lac:

[Jimbo]

ha ha, my afternoon revolves around virgin 1s trekkie trio as well, god bless digital tv!
Me too!
Just saw this thread, fab!

Never got into the whole Angel thing.:shrug: Buffy was cool, but they dragged it out far to long.

But I love star trek. I love the way it takes you away on a total fantasy adventure every episode. Maybe I am a trekkie, but I've never been to a convention!

Got to disagree about DS9 tho, I thought it was possibly the worst of all the series. I didn't like the way DS9 focussed around war and religion and was so violent, they also focussed too much on the long term story line and each individual episode lost out. They were fighting a ratings battle with Babylon 5 and were trying too hard to emulate the attraction of that. I guess the loss of Roddenberry and rise of Berman was responsible in many ways. RIP

Not sure the original series can be considered racist or sexist, quite the opposite, just doesn't seem PC now. I don't think that was intended at all. They wanted to show a multicultural society working together. Checkov, Scotty, Uhura, etc. Shows how PC we have become these days. I think they realised that too at the time. I prime example being Kirk's sexy ensign who disappeared half way through the first series at Rodenberry's request and Shatners disappointment. Also got to love the Warf's later references in TNG to the old look of the Klingons as a 'touchy subject' and "a long story".:roflmao:

I found DS9 struggled to get off the station and seriously limited the flexibility of the storylines. TNG and the other series had absolute freedom for any sort of storyline being on a starship. Roddenberry's influence in TNG was clear with each episode carrying a deeper message about humanity and morality. The final episodes being the best end to any of the series. Oh and Patrick Stewart being one of the best actors of all time. Nobody could ever replace him.

All the future series effectively revolved around the world Roddenberry created but they kind of lost their way. Roddenberry would layer every story with deeper meanings and a subtly hidden long term storyline. Berman simply didn't cut it for me.

Voyager, was a better attempt than DS9, I think Berman realised his mistakes and would've been great if they had found a less wooden actor as captain. A female captain would have been great, but not Janeway. The concept was fantastic, taking them away from the normal races in the TNG and Original universe. But the ending they wrote to conclude it was the worst botch ending I've ever seen!

Enterprise was a crude attempt on a budget to revive Star Trek to a new generation of viewer. Very mixed in it's success. Again they totally abandoned the morality that TNG and the original series created. T'Poll totally overshadowed Archer's acting despite playing a Vulcan! Shame because I thought Bakula was a good choice for Archer until he actually played the role.

I can't comment on the new movie as I haven't seen it. But I'm slightly confused. Was the previous movie the end of the TNG based movies? Or is the recent one a totally separate thing and we'll get another TNG based movie too?

Jim:hugs:

[eeyorelover]

The new movie is supposed to be based on the characters from the original show.
Not from TNG
But I don't think we will get another movie based on TNG because I saw an interview a while back that Patrick Stewart did that said he wouldn't be interested in doing another project as Picard!
It's sad but true!
:(

[NoPoet]

TNG has had its day. The TNG films did not have the impact needed to sustain the franchise (except for First Contact). I love TNG but bringing it back is a mistake.

Worf's comments about old-style Klingons was made in an episode of DS9. DS9's greatest strength was the full and surprising ways in which it filled its characters out. In terms of character development DS9 had surpassed Buffy and was approaching Angel levels.

By contrast, on many of the other Trek shows the characters finished practically the same people they were when the series first started.

Compare Commander Riker or Tuvok with Wesley (from Angel). Wesley started as an incompetent, self-opinionated buffoon, the same way half of NMP sees me actually ;)

By the fourth season Wesley had developed into the show's darkest character. He made sickening do-or-die decisions that even shocked Angel, but he did it because it was the right thing to do to make sure the forces of good would prevail for another day or even another minute.

He kidnapped Angel's son, then had his throat slit and was nearly murdered by Angel in retaliation. Wesley, now ostracised by Angel Investigations, took charge of a band of rogue demon hunters and in the process became an emotionally damaged and coldly vicious desperado with a fantastic new look and a much improved English accent.

Wes fell in love with Fred and came to blows with Gunn over her, then he entered a dangerous relationship with Lilah, Angel's worst enemy, which proved mentally damaging when Lilah was later murdered by Angel. Later Wesley was the only member of Angel Investigations who used his tour of Wolfram and Hart to do some damage against the forces of evil.

In the fifth season Wesley was the person who rediscovered the truth which Angel had concealed, setting himself on a downward spiral of bitterness and hurt. When Fred finally died, Wesley lost it altogether, allowing himself to be killed in the final battle by attacking a major magician with a knife.

In the meantime, Harry Kim became bolder and more experienced, but he proved to be a crap leader and Janeway never promoted him. Riker was offered numerous captaincies but never took any of them (until the end of Nemesis) and remained first officer. Neither Kim nor Riker had families or got into long-term relationships, nor did their roles of personalities alter to any extent after seven years of adventures.

As for TOS, the racist comment was about the way people treat Spock. "Green-blooded hobgoblin" is not a particularly PC way to refer to your commanding officer. In one of the films, Chekov states Starfleet's primary mission as restoring "human rights" to the galaxy, which was quite rightly ridiculed by the Klingon ambassador. One is made to think of the US Military's attempts to bring democracy to countries that don't even know what democracy is.

The standoff between the Federation and the Klingon Empire always makes me think of the Cold War between America and Russia. The Klingon Navy and the Federation Starfleet can work together as is proved repeatedly in DS9, but their ideologies are so different they just can't stop falling out (as also proved repeatedly in DS9).

[Jimbo]

But I don't think we will get another movie based on TNG because I saw an interview a while back that Patrick Stewart did that said he wouldn't be interested in doing another project as Picard!
:weep:
I guess it kinda makes sense, the last movie was a natural end with Data destroyed and Riker off to command another ship.

PsychoPoet,
Maybe I should try to watch the Angel series, but it just never appealed to me.
TNG is still my favourite tho, its hard to put my finger on exactly why, but I felt more empathy for the characters than in any other series. Nemesis made me shed a few tears at the end.

Going to hunt down a copy of the new movie soon so I'll say what I think of it when I see it.

Jim:hugs:

[99% dead inside]

would've been great if they had found a less wooden actor as captain. A female captain would have been great, but not Janeway.

Here here! She has 3, maybe 4, facial expressions. Her voice sounds like nails on a chalkboard, and don't get me started on her hair(style?). :scared15:

[Bill]

What happened to Gryphoenix???????? Get her back here quick!!!She'd LOVE this thread just like me!:yesyes:

I'd Love to live in another galaxy with Any of these guys!:winks: I wouldn't want to be Dr. Who though. Too similar to real life living in my tardis.:winks:

Why can't everyone behave with the same morals!?! I wish the writers coul be persuaded to take over writing Eastenders so we could see the best in people rather than always seeing pure nastiness and how NOT to treat others! Such a BAD example to youngsters these days. No wonder this world has so many problems! I either have to laugh at it or just get angry with the writers! Disgusts me so I refuse to have it on!.........and to think it was the most popular programme over Christmas!!!.....What the @@@@ is going on in this country???!!!:mad:

Star Trek and the others are the total opposite and Brilliant!:yesyes:

[Jimbo]

I wish the writers coul be persuaded to take over writing Eastenders so we could see the best in people rather than always seeing pure nastiness and how NOT to treat others!

I'm forced into watching Eastenders every year by my family, I absolutely can't abide it either. People moan about violent video games but don't notice the worst example of all right under our noses.

Jim:hugs:

[NoPoet]

Eastenders? You mean "Oh no, we're out of ideas again, QUICK, bring an old character back or introduce a new Mitchell!" Eastenders indeed. That reminds me, I'm dying for a crap.

Bill, I think Angel said it best in season 4, when he was talking to his son (who had previously tied Angel up in a metal container and dumped him under the ocean for 3 months):

"We live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be."