GP will not investigate symptoms...

[springblossom]

Dear All,

I have been to a number of doctors in our local practice over the past few months to discuss my health concerns which are as follows:


Pulse in head, scalp movements
Numbness, tingling and burning sensations in hands and feet
Raynaud's phenomenon (this has been diagnosed and confirmed)
Sunburn sensation on back and feelings of extreme heat
Blurred vision
I asked my GP to investigate but have been told that the symptoms form no pattern, are too diffuse and that I look 'healthy'. I asked for blood tests and was told there was no need and I quopte "what would we test for?".

I am at my wit's end. I can't afford to go private and I do not make a nuisance of myself or abuse the health service, deliberately leaving long periods between appointments so it does not appear that I'm taking advantage of the service.

SB

[marley]

I will apologise in advance if this come off as being terse or uncaring - it's definitely not. What it is, is firm (there's no smiley icon with a whip). I am sure of a few things:

You need to trust that the doctor sees your grievances as a collection of different symptoms - not all necessarily related. Reading through the list, nothing stands out as being indicative of anything serious.

Reynaud's is very common and mostly benign. My brother and my best friend both have it. No drama. They get cold hands occasionally and wear gloves in winter.

Pulse in head, well, that's one of those autonomic sensory things that we begin to notice once we're dealing with HA - everyone here experiences it. Scalp tightness and movements are also extremely common for people suffering from anxiety - so much so that there's a paragraph dedicated to it on the symptoms page of this website.

Numbness and tingling. Gosh. Every second thread here either mentions MS, people getting needless CT scans, MRI's and other imaging - and for what? Both are also very common symptoms of anxiety brought about by numerous physical reactions to stress, including hypo/hyperventilation. The type of numbness associated with neurological disorders is constant and worsening, not fleeting.

Your other symptoms are also addressed on the symptoms page - again, very common symptoms of anxiety... nothing more, nothing less.

Do yourself a favour and let yourself be reassured by the doctors lack of alarm at your symptoms. The media don't address the millions and millions of people correctly diagnosed and treated by modern medicine, because it's not an interesting story. Instead, you hear constant tales of misdiagnosis, and 'the 10 signs of disease XYZ you cannot miss'. Your body and your brain is anxious. Be kind to yourself, and seek help for your anxiety.

[suzy-sue]

Mmm..He doesnt sound very sympathetic but did he tell you what your symptoms were down to ? If not ,,i would book another appointment with another Dr .I honestly think your Anxiety is causing these symptoms ,but im no Dr ..He should Know that people with anxiety problems only feel worse if they dont get reasured their symptoms are only anxiety related .A good bedside manner is often lacking and can end up causing people to suffer unecessarily .Im sure tho if he thought it was something serious he would have sent you for a test .He cant afford to make mistakes or be dissmisive if that was the case ..I really wouldnt worry hun but I know thats easier said than done ..Take care Luv Sue x

[meg86]

Hello hun :)

I know exactly how you feel, i have also experienced numbness, tingling, burning in my arms, legs, feet, back and face. I had terrible headaches/sensations, hazy vision, like floaters and snow vision. There has been many other things but wanted to write about the ones i have had similar to you.

I have been to my doctors a million times and each time they have said " its anxiety" i of course didnt believe them until one doctor explained to me why these symptoms happen, i felt reassured
and the symptoms started to dissapear. Everything you have just said are common symptoms of anxiety apart from the Raynaud's phenomenon which has been diagnosed.

Remember that these people are trained professionals, i have been to the doctor so many times but they have always been right. If you look at the symptoms section on the left it explains your symptoms and why they happen.

So many people with anxiety have test after medical test and they still dont believe they are healthy, because the anxiety is still making them believe something is wrong.

Can i ask when you was first diagnosed with anxiety, did you have blood tests to rule anything else out?? xx

[KK77]

A good bedside manner is often lacking and can end up causing people to suffer unecessarily

I agree. This just fuels your HA even more. Although Marley is right, and I agree that your symptoms as a whole don't sound serious, I think you do need to find a sympathetic and understanding doctor. Your mental state will just exacerbate your physical symptoms even more otherwise.

[nomorepanic]

I will apologise in advance if this come off as being terse or uncaring - it's definitely not. What it is, is firm (there's no smiley icon with a whip). I am sure of a few things:


Oh but we do have one :winks:

:whiplash:

[pollyanna]

thx nic, i didnt know that there was extra smilies, all i had to do was click for more ....:doh:,

sorry , dont mean to hijack this post..

[springblossom]

I will apologise in advance if this come off as being terse or uncaring - it's definitely not. What it is, is firm (there's no smiley icon with a whip). I am sure of a few things:

You need to trust that the doctor sees your grievances as a collection of different symptoms - not all necessarily related. Reading through the list, nothing stands out as being indicative of anything serious.

Reynaud's is very common and mostly benign. My brother and my best friend both have it. No drama. They get cold hands occasionally and wear gloves in winter.

Pulse in head, well, that's one of those autonomic sensory things that we begin to notice once we're dealing with HA - everyone here experiences it. Scalp tightness and movements are also extremely common for people suffering from anxiety - so much so that there's a paragraph dedicated to it on the symptoms page of this website.

Numbness and tingling. Gosh. Every second thread here either mentions MS, people getting needless CT scans, MRI's and other imaging - and for what? Both are also very common symptoms of anxiety brought about by numerous physical reactions to stress, including hypo/hyperventilation. The type of numbness associated with neurological disorders is constant and worsening, not fleeting.

Your other symptoms are also addressed on the symptoms page - again, very common symptoms of anxiety... nothing more, nothing less.

Do yourself a favour and let yourself be reassured by the doctors lack of alarm at your symptoms. The media don't address the millions and millions of people correctly diagnosed and treated by modern medicine, because it's not an interesting story. Instead, you hear constant tales of misdiagnosis, and 'the 10 signs of disease XYZ you cannot miss'. Your body and your brain is anxious. Be kind to yourself, and seek help for your anxiety.

Whislt I agree with parts of your post I cannot agree with its totality. I do not want reassurance from my GP, I want a scientific analysis of my symptoms. Without a blood test or similar investigations no GP can state that the symptoms are anxiety; a diagnosis of anxiety should only be given when underlying medical conditions have been ruled out (Claire Weeks says this about palpitations in her books).

I have had only one blood test from my GP in 4 years - a thyroid test which was negative (I had an overactive thyroid for 3 years as a student). When GPs know a patient has HA it can be a convenient hook on which to hang everything.

[nomorepanic]

One of the best people you can go and see about a lot of problems with vision and headaches is an optician as they can check your eyes which can cause all sorts of problems.

The thing with blood tests is that they don't pick everything up - I had Crohn's for what I believe many years and it was not diagnosed from blood tests.

I guess docs have to go on what they know and the symptoms - as they say medicine isn't science.

[marley]

I can understand you want some sort of diagnosis, but the reality here is that your doctor doesn't see a problem to begin with. Without a problem, there is nothing for the doctor to solve, to test, to diagnose.

If you are adamant that you're not being looked after correctly, and you still want to be tested, go back to your doctor and tell them you feel that you're not being taken seriously, and that you would like a chance to be heard and treated in a way which means you have a chance of getting better.

As an aside: 'scientific analysis' (I'm sure you mean medical analysis) of symptoms is both expensive and time consuming, and doctors usually only choose to investigate further if they believe there is a chance of a problem.

Now, on this board and other boards where there is a global input, you'll find people from other health systems telling you they've been sent for 20 different types of MRI, CT, ECG... doctors in these other systems are pressured to send patients on for needless scans because of the chance of being sued if a patient deems a doctor 'hasn't done enough'. For many people from systems like the one in the UK where there is public health, this type of scanning seems novel and advanced.

[NeverRelaxed]

this is out of order, in my opinon. even if your GP thinks your worries are irrational he/she should still refer you for the tests to put YOUR mind at ease...you are the patient and your welfare is of paramount importance.

[springblossom]

yes i thought so, but i've exhausted the line with them. until i get an mri they are telling me there's nothing really they can do :(

an i'm not a serial attender at the surgery. i space visits etc.

[messianictalmud]

Whislt I agree with parts of your post I cannot agree with its totality. I do not want reassurance from my GP , I want a scientific analysis of my symptoms. Without a blood test or similar investigations no GP can state that the symptoms are anxiety; a diagnosis of anxiety should only be given when underlying medical conditions have been ruled out (Claire Weeks says this about palpitations in her books).
Firstly I think we have to accept that Claire Weeks is only coming from a generalised point of view, and I don't "honeslty" think she would advocate pushing doctors to have (Expensive Pointless Test's) carried out! I am sorry that sounds harsh and something that you don't want to hear or agree with !

I have had only one blood test from my GP in 4 years - a thyroid test which was negative (I had an overactive thyroid for 3 years as a student). When GPs know a patient has HA it can be a convenient hook on which to hang everything.

Like others on here your having problems, sorry about that!

Have ever been on a Expert Patients Management course ?
Many NHS PCT's are running these by trained volunteers who have long term health issues of some degree.
It teaches you how to become a manager of your health issues, afterall they are yours anyway, and the one of the starting points is developing a working relationship with our GP's & other health proffessionals which has to be based on trust!

I know you dont want to hear it, but you need to trust your GP practice as you said already you've spoken to various GP's at your surgery and your basically getting the same feedback back.
You could try and take this on trust that your GP's know what they are doing.
GP's at my surgery wont arrange test's for the sake of it, not cause they dont want to but because there are no medical symptomatic issues that warrents tests being done.
If you needed tests doing your GP would arrange that! and thats the hard hitting truth.
Ok so you've got HA, I can understand that I have GAD which covers the whole spectrum of Anxiety disoders.
Seems to me though that maybe your feeling so aggrivated by your GP is cause they know you have HA and they are not feeding it by arranging tests on every issue that you raise with them...So even though you may not see it, I actually think your GP is helping you.
You say you want the science to come out of it all, well ok scientific FACT arranging tests & procedures for people with GAD & HA does actually exasperate the anixieties!
Now that doesn't mean that doctors dont test patients who have GAD or HA, but it does mean that they have to extra carefull about arranging tests etc.

I really hope you can take on board what advice your being given as you asked for it anyway, and I hope that you and your GP will be able to start getting on top of your HA symtpoms too.

[superjonboy]

Just a couple of points to add to what people have said.

1. A doctor can make a diagnosis mostly based on your medical history. They may not even need to examine you.

2. When you 'Doctor Shop' you are basically telling the doctors at your surgery that despite their many years of training, their year of practical and then their years of experience, that you dont think they know what they are doing. From my experience and what I've heard from other people, even the friendliest of doctors do not like this.

3. You said you don't vist the doctors frequently and space your visits out. Let me give you an example here:
My mother - 3 doctors (GP)visits in the last 5 years. (Excluding routine women checks)
My brother - 1 doctors visit in the last 4 years.
My wife - 4 doctors visits since 2006, 2 of which were registering at a new doctors.
MYSELF(Heath Anxiety sufferer) - 6 visits since october.
How do you rank alongside these?

4.


this is out of order, in my opinon. even if your GP thinks your worries are irrational he/she should still refer you for the tests to put YOUR mind at ease...you are the patient and your welfare is of paramount importance.

Althouh it seems out of order or harsh the doctor here is actually doing the patient a favour. Many doctors will order tests to reassure their patients because they don't want to see them suffer. The problem is it translates into the patients head as 'Well they're sending me for tests. Something really must be wrong'
And despite having tests patients still dont get the answers they want. I know more than one person who has had an MRI or CT scan that resulted in normal, who still think something could be wrong with their brains.

I hope this helps you to see that your doctors really do know what they are doing and that if they say you don't need tests then yo really don't! You have to deal with the real issue which is worrying excessively about your health.

[Typer]

Thing is that we do hear about people being overlooked or not heard and of course about mistakes etc. While I am sure most do know when to ask for tests and when not to, some do not and i have heard many horror stories of things being missed.

I dont think this is the case here, but we are fuelled by these stories and the horror stories people tell us....you know these type "My neice kept on going to the doc with X symptom and the doc kept on telling her it was just nerves and nothing was done. Later in the year when she got really sick they found she did have XX." People who worry are fuelled by these stories. A GP who is sarcastic or dismissive is bound to leave a person feeling more anxious and helpless.

Perhaps if he had explained in more detail why he was not worried for you, it may have helped

[springblossom]

My responses are in red:


Just a couple of points to add to what people have said.

1. A doctor can make a diagnosis mostly based on your medical history. They may not even need to examine you. I'm not sure this is or should be the case. Symptoms can change between one consultation and another.

2. When you 'Doctor Shop' you are basically telling the doctors at your surgery that despite their many years of training, their year of practical and then their years of experience, that you dont think they know what they are doing. From my experience and what I've heard from other people, even the friendliest of doctors do not like this. I have never 'doctor-shopped' - If I were to request an appointment with the same doctor every time I could wait weeks on end for an appointment. The practice where I'm registered has so many patients that one rarely sees the same doctor twice. Whether the doctor likes this or not is besides the point; in my work I don't like some of my clients but I must offer them the same standard of professional service as those clients I like.

3. You said you don't vist the doctors frequently and space your visits out. Let me give you an example here:
My mother - 3 doctors (GP)visits in the last 5 years. (Excluding routine women checks)
My brother - 1 doctors visit in the last 4 years.
My wife - 4 doctors visits since 2006, 2 of which were registering at a new doctors.
MYSELF(Heath Anxiety sufferer) - 6 visits since october.
How do you rank alongside these?

I have had maybe three consultations since October. I have never had bloods taken, rarely have blood pressure checked, never had diabetes test and had to request a thyroid test (I had an overactive thyroid in my early twenties and have had a positive diagnosos of Raynauds).

4. Althouh it seems out of order or harsh the doctor here is actually doing the patient a favour. Many doctors will order tests to reassure their patients because they don't want to see them suffer. The problem is it translates into the patients head as 'Well they're sending me for tests. Something really must be wrong'
And despite having tests patients still dont get the answers they want. I know more than one person who has had an MRI or CT scan that resulted in normal, who still think something could be wrong with their brains.

I hope this helps you to see that your doctors really do know what they are doing and that if they say you don't need tests then yo really don't! You have to deal with the real issue which is worrying excessively about your health.

I accept that HA sufferers seek excessive reassurance and that the doctor investigating these symptoms may not always be productive, but when the patient is 'left to their own devices' can the doctor be assured that due patient care has taken place?

[Typer]

Springblossom - I do so agree with you. My experience is that the ideal GP fits with superjonboy's post...and there are some great GP's out there. But ideals are ideals, and not always truth, sadly.

But many times and with current funding, legislation and the way the NHS is run, many, many patients are being left to their own devices. I hear it all the time and am, in part, victim to the way patients are treated in some cases.

[superjonboy]

My responses are in red:



I accept that HA sufferers seek excessive reassurance and that the doctor investigating these symptoms may not always be productive, but when the patient is 'left to their own devices' can the doctor be assured that due patient care has taken place?

You're not being left to your own devices though. You're going to see a professional who doesn't think you need tests. It is then your anxiety that is fueling your desire for more tests.

I just want to write a little bit from a book i have.

In reference to point 1.

"Quite often in listening to a patients history a doctor begins to form a diagnosis even before any examination. The process of examining you and recieving a positive test result just confirms what the doctor already knew or gives the doctor the location of the problem."

Point 2.

Is this really the case? It shouldn't take 2 - 3 weeks to get an appointment with our GP unless they are on holiday/sick. It also doesn't have anything to do with whether or not a doctor likes you. He/she is telling you 2 + 2 is 4 and you're saying no it's 5.

Point 3.

The thyroid test you "had to request" - what was the outcome of it?

"The more test you have, the more likely you are to get a false positive. This is a result which suggests something positive but is a mistake. This usually leads to more false leads and more tests to exclude the positive result. This in turn increases your doubts and worries"

Have you been diagnosed with Anxiety/Health Anxiety?

Sorry if my posts come accross as harsh. I don't mean them to. I suffer with severe health anxiety, to th extent I think/thought I have/had - MS, Brain Tumor, Epilepsy, Schizophrenia, Bipolar..................
For all of these I wanted a test to show me I didn't have them. For example I saw the top neurologist in Leeds. A consultant neurologist. When he checked me out and didn't think I required an MRI or a CT scan I thought how can he do that. How can he not send me for an MRI. Gradually I'm learning to trust doctors. You have to.

You certainly don't want to end up going to my extreme where I gave up a really good job and let it take over my life. If you have been dianosed with an anxiety disorder you have to focus 100% on overcoming it. As my psychiatrist said to me today - "Anxiety is bad enough without having anything else!"