View Full Version : Discontinuation symptoms etc... what a lovely day!
Hi all!
I have spoken to a friend about this so if that person reads this thread don't be offended, I just wanted to see what other people thought.
I was running low on cit last week due to my usual idiotic failure to order a new supply. I've got 40mg tablets but I normally break them down to 30mg. 30mg is the best dose for me since it fixes my anxiety/depression without knackering me out.
For the last week I've been down to 20mg again just like back in the golden days of last year. I was fine at first, a bit more nervous, more energy, less tired.
Yesterday I had a kind of relapse where I felt terrible. My symptoms were that prickling feeling I used to get in my head, temples and mouth, with a metallic taste. It only lasted a few moments. My mood became low and I felt frightened, sick and headachey.
I actually had that feeling twice, once at 5.30pm, once at 8.30pm. I was very anxious and distressed but I spoke to a friend before bed and I felt a bit better.
When I went to sleep I had a very horrible nightmare, not something I usually do, and I woke at about 5.30 feeling terrible -- shivering and sick. The dream included a character using the words, "It wants you to commit suicide" (talking about a haunted house lol) - this scared me, as I thought it might be symbolic about my illness, even though I am not and have never been suicidal.
Luckily my mp3 player was to hand so I fell back asleep listening to Paul McKenna.
I'm ok now, I had to get up and be active early and my mood is reasonable, I'm just tired, headachey and a bit nauseous.
So does anybody else think this is due to my messing about with my dose? Was the electric feeling a "brain zap" and if so, why did it create an unpleasant taste in my mouth?
Feel free to share your own brain zap and bad dream experiences here :)
Hmm could be. I've not been very consistent with taking my 40mg dose recently just because I'm forgetful and really busy. When you're really depressed and all you can think about is being depressed it's easy to remember taking the tablets... when there's other things to think about it's not in the forefront of your mind.
But I have been having bad dreams too, maybe it's because of that - I hadn't thought of it that way. I dreamed that the wood workshop was being attacked with machine guns and the technicians were shooting at the enemy from round corners, and I kept trying to hide inside a locker... it was really scary. I don't watch that many violent TV shows/films. I had this dream after we had a lecture about whether it was morally wrong to make guns. But it was really vivid.
I've had very vivid dreams all the time since I've been on citalopram actually, maybe it's just a constant side affect. But I certainly have noticed feeling a bit queasy when I forget to take the dose.
Argh I wish I could be succinct!!
You had another thread about taking your "bum-shaped" 40mg tablets by biting them. However, by doing this you've probably been getting a variable dose of citalopram, and although this may be considered inconsequential, these tablets are manufactured to a very precise dose. Cutting a tablet or even worse, biting it, will affect the levels of the drug in your blood. This can lead to withdrawal symptoms of varying degrees.
Your symptoms are probably the result of lowering your dose. You should go to your GP and get the 20mg + 10mg to make 30, or three 10mg tablets if you prefer.
As I said last time: messing with the dose is asking for trouble.
Hope you feel better soon mate.
bellabessnjet
26-02-10, 20:12
Messed with my dose over christmas, went down from 40mg to 20mg missed a few doses etc. Pretty soon within 10 days all my depression/anxiety returned. An ant came in and because I had been visulizing with cbt I honestly believed it was me that had made it come in with my constant checking. gone back to 40mg and feel better, not brill, but copable, I didnt know about tablets and cutting/biting them so thanks Melancholia wont do that anymore!
Thanks for responding everyone, I was starting to think nobody loved me any more :yesyes:
Lior: As you said, when you're feeling low you can guarantee that you'll collect your prescription on time and take the medicine religiously. But I've been feeling amazing for the last 3 months and the medication began to take a low priority.
I guess it was maybe not arrogant, but short-sighted of me to think that I might be able to get by on a lower dose without side effects. I guess I'm a bit betrayed cos after all these months I was finally seeing citalopram as a friend and helper, now it seems to have turned against me. That's what I get for not showing the proper respect.
Bellabessnjet: As far as I know it is not uncommon for people to cut or bite their tablets to a slightly lower dose, but I went as far as to cut my prescribed dose by 50%. I guess that was too much to take. When you cut a tablet then as Melancholia says, you cannot judge your dose accurately.
Melancholia: Totally agree with you mate, I knew it was stupid, I must have some kind of sadistic impulse or something. I actually never had a problem over the last 3 months with biting my bum shaped tablets, but maybe I was lucky. Incidentally I've picked up a new batch which looks like something that comes out of a bum. Is the medical profession trying to tell me something?
Next time I visit Doctor Slaphead I'm going to ask for 30mg and that will be an end to this faffing around.
The worst thing is I've had a kind of low or flat mood since yesterday with a definite increase in anxiety. Maybe it's just a blip. I was very worried about the metallic taste in my mouth which I get with the prickling sensation but after searching other websites I found that a lot of people do report metallic or coppery tastes during bouts of anxiety even when they're not on medication. It seems weird that nobody else on NMP has experienced the same feelings I have.
Thanks again everyone, I'm off to bed now, pretty nervous after last night but what the hell, I've survived this before!
Poet ..You can only get 40mg 20mg or 10 mg tabs ..I always have 10mg as Id probably take the wrong combo when im having a Senior moment ...Or should I say a Citalopram one ...:doh:.I also never had a problem biting a tablet in half when i was on 35 mg . Sue x
Thanks Sue, I'm going to ask Doctor Forehead for a set of 10mg and 20mg packs.
It seems strange to me that I had this blip when I've changed my dose before from 20 to 30, then 30 to 40, then back down to 30 again, without any ill effects at all. I'm not questioning it though, I know SSRIs are legendary for their discontinuation effects. Maybe I was lucky before, or unlucky this time.
I feel like I used to when coming out of blips: headachey, tired, a bit fragile, but definitely better than a couple of days ago. Had a good night with my mates last night and went out with my dad for a few hours today. Surprising what a difference it makes to get out for a few hours. Also proves yet again the value of staying social while you're feeling rough. My mood was low yesterday but it's quite bright today.
Well after several days, I am officially experiencing the first blip in months. It is tough to deal with because I haven't felt like this for so long and it is painful and frightening to go through these feelings again. I feel exactly like I used to 6 to 8 months ago.
My mood is up and down a lot, especially when I wake up in the morning (that old chestnut again). I do have moods where I feel almost back to normal and this usually comes when I am doing something or sharing someone's company. When that hasn't been possible I have used the Anxiety UK and Samaritans support lines to vent, since talking usually proves the most effective therapy for me. Nothing like a bit of good old fashioned human contact in this faceless age.
My sleep has not been disturbed since that single horrible night. However I slept til 12.30 today and did not want to get out of bed; I am still going to bed late and maybe the side effects of my 30mg dose are kicking back in again which would explain this tiredness. The feeling of wanting to stay in bed frightened me cos I associate that with being really ill.
Also when I'm feeling low the thought of "groundhog day" (doing the same thing every day) gets me down. This doesn't normally bother me any more, it's the major symptom of a blip for me.
So in summary my mood is all over the place and I need more support now than I have in the last 6 months! Hopefully this will all blow over in the next few days as I adjust back to my higher dose; the worst thing is my fear that I'll still feel like crap when I adjust back to 30mg.
The moral of the story once again is to NEVER fiddle with your dose UNDER ANY PRETEXT WHATSOEVER!!! Some more reassurance would be nice if anyone would care to share their discontinuation stuff?
Well, I think you've said it all really. The moral of the story is not to get complacent with these sorts of drugs - they're not Smarties as you've said before...
Quite a few years back I was on paroxetine. I got into the habit of taking it every other day or when I felt the physical symptoms of withdrawal. I couldn't work out why my moods were all over the place but it was obviously because of my complacent attitude to my medication.
I think that suddenly lowering a dose can cause the "blip" you're experiencing because for a long time 20mg wasn't doing you much good and you felt much better once you'd increased it. So you seem to have found your optimum dose at 30mg which I think you should stick to.
It could be that this is also just a blip regardless of your med. The placebo effect has a lot to answer for. My aunt was started on 40mg of citalopram! 20mg morning and 20mg at night. I was shocked and asked her if she'd had any side effects and she said No, just feel a bit calmer! Because she doesn't worry about side effects she never seems to get them. Yet people that worry seem to have bad reactions on even 10mg...
You will revert back to how you felt before, don't worry. Just be compliant with your med and put it down to the good old blip brigade. You know how we all hate 'em...
Hi, thank you for that, I found it reassuring. God, imagine starting on 40mg!! :ohmy:
The 30mg is starting to kick back in now, more slowly than before.
Well yesterday I officially started following the Claire Weekes advice, and I can tell you now the results have started already! Something seemed to click as I listened to her cds and I found her advice easy to follow. It was like she was specifically talking to me. It's nice to FINALLY hear from a doctor who knows all about anxiety and depression! Claire Weekes' stuff is highly recommended to anyone reading this thread.
The downside: well my mood was so high over the last 2 days that there has been a kind of snap-back each day.
For the first time, I've started feeling the way I did BEFORE I became ill. Unfortunately I used to feel low or upset or empty for no apparent reason, so in that respect I am not much better off. Sod's law. I need to understand why I used to feel that way. I felt like it since I was a kid, yet I've had a happy life if you know what I mean. Can anyone relate?
Well I'm still finding myself very up and down but I have been a bit better this evening, less fearful.
It has felt over the last 2 days in particular that I've been going out of my mind with fear. I haven't felt this upset for months. It is very difficult to accept that I will get over this blip. It literally feels like there is something fundamentally wrong with me but I don't know what.
I have spoken with friends and with Anxiety UK. I need more reassurance now than I have in months. Everyone assures me that this is just a reaction from cutting my dose down, and to be honest I know this has got to be the truth: otherwise why would I suddenly just relapse when my treatment had been working for so long?
As Dr Weekes says, anxiety is an illness of the thoughts; I just don't seem able to control my thoughts at the moment.
If anyone has any more kind words I would truly love to hear them.
Jannie2948
05-03-10, 23:07
PsychoPoet, sorry to hear that you are having this bad time again. From your posts, and I have read all of your survival guide, you were doing so well. Once you went up to 30mg you seemed to do so much better, were you then advised to go up to 40mg? I was on 20mg for 3 months doing not bad but still had the odd bad day so Dr put me up to 40mg and have been taking this increased dose for 2 weeks and am starting to feel better. My Dr said that 40mg was the appropriate dosage for anxiety. I still have moments when I feel panic/anxiety and I am determined to control those moments. I have read books by Claire Weekes and listened to meditation CD's regarding breathing etc and am trying all of these new techniques to help me when I have those blips. I really hope that you get your medication to the correct level and get back to the point where you felt so much better, I am sure you will. Perhaps stay on the increased dosage for a few more weeks until you feel strong enough to decrease it, but my Dr has told me that people can be on it for years and that it isn't addictive. Here's hoping you feel much better very soon.
Jannie x x
Thanks Jannie :)
Once you went up to 30mg you seemed to do so much better, were you then advised to go up to 40mg?My doctor increased my dose from 20mg to 40mg. I increased my dose in 10mg increments. When I was on 30mg I felt a bit tired (especially in the mornings) but my mood improved by about 1000%.
After 3-4 weeks I tried going up to 40mg. All that did was drain my energy, emotions and motivation to almost nothing. It wasn't depression or anything, I didn't experience negative thoughts or feelings, it's just that 40mg was too much for me. That doesn't mean it will be the same for everyone else though, and as your doctor says, I find that higher doses of cit are needed for anxiety.
I went back to 30mg with no negative effects. It's when I allowed myself to run low and reduced my dose to 20mg that I became very ill with anxiety.
I feel much better today after being on 30mg again for 9 days. It feels like I'm finally getting over this blip, but just like the old days I feel fragile, as if I might break if I have another bout of anxiety or depression.
I have read books by Claire Weekes and listened to meditation CD's regarding breathing etc and am trying all of these new techniques to help me when I have those blips.To be honest things temporarily got WORSE after I started putting the Claire Weekes stuff into practice, but here's why.
Basically the change from thinking negatively, to thinking positively, came as a great shock. I've always had a nagging voice of fear or dissent in the back of my mind. Following Dr Weekes' advice, I was able to completely mute that voice, and the world became a strange place: quiet, happy, beautiful. For some reason, this gave me an unexpected new set of problems to deal with, as I had that weird feeling where you don't recognise yourself.
Being happy is almost as much of a strain as being anxious or depressed. I guess my batteries were flat and I tried to change too much, too soon. If you follow Dr Weekes' advice then do it gradually, take baby steps, don't try to recover in one day flat, it doesn't work like that.
If this experience goes towards helping myself or others, then it won't have been wasted, but from now on I will never again use myself as the lab rat!!
I feel much better today after being on 30mg again for 9 days. It feels like I'm finally getting over this blip, but just like the old days I feel fragile, as if I might break if I have another bout of anxiety or depression.
I think you're just going through the after-effects of the blip - that feeling of quiet confidence tinged with vulnerability. Quite normal mate. I'm sure you'll be back to your former confident self soon.
Keep up the good work...
Hi Melancholia, thank you for the reassurance :)
Sounds like you are equally as experienced at coming out of blips -- it's scary isn't it, but it feels good at the same time, like your state of mind is balanced on the edge of a knife. Kind of a thrill!
Had a wonderful day out with my dad today, seven hours exploring the Pennines, and generally had fun in the evening with my family and my beloved XBox haha ;)
I'm getting ready to declare this blip - possibly the most distressing one so far - to be over. And once I do, there will be yet more proof for everyone that any kind of blip can be recovered from, and blips do not affect the ultimate truth: that anxiety and depression can be beaten.
I think I'll continue to chart my recovery from this "blip" in the hope that it will reassure other members who experience the same thing.
The negative thoughts and feelings I had over the last week and a half have been bruising to say the least. Today was an "empty" day with clear, calm weather and nothing to do. Those are the kinds of day that I dread.
So I spent a couple of hours spraying my car's rear light clusters black. I think I got sunburned. My neighbours were admiring the car afterwards so it must have turned out well.
Then I managed to get my mum and brother out of the house. My brother is severely schizophrenic but it is thankfully, after several terrible years, under the control of medication. My mum is always stressed to death and tends to chain herself to chores. So I helped her sort the house and garden out, then took her and my bro to the local garden centre which is a hugely popular place for strolling round.
We got lost in a maze, wandered round the ornate gardens, did some window shopping and shared some memories of the last time we went there together, which was more than 20 years ago! We spent an hour and a half there all told and came home happy and tired.
So there you go, how to turn an empty day into a happy memory of doing something you enjoy with the people you love :)
Couple of snaps of the car before and after I modified the lights: (please excuse the car's filthy state)
BEFORE:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q255/nopoet406/IMG_7044.jpg
AFTER:
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs440.snc3/25279_354718146231_519271231_4168470_6135273_n.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q255/nopoet406/Photo2216.jpg
Hello Psychopoet,
You've definitely got the right attitude, keeping yourself busy. Occupation is a great healer. Sounds like a good day. Your poor mum, what a worry for her with your brother. It sounds like occupation keeps her going as well.
You seem to be getting over this blip so well done you! And your car looks great too :yesyes:
Myra x
A bit of a grandad car chap, I thought your wheels would have been much hotter ;)
Aww that's not nice! It's a lovely car. Shows maturity rather than a boy racer! You be proud of your car Psychopoet!!
Myra:hugs:
I'm very proud of it. It's totally underrated, which is the way I like things. After all, if someone is all front, they have no idea what's going on behind their backs. :shades:
You keep polishing it PP ;)
I'll file that under okaaaaaaay :shades:
I expect you want to go and do some moderating somewhere else mate, so I shall wish you good night and farewell.
Glad you had a good day Adam .Your blip has been another learning experience if nothing else ..Keep filling your day with doing things that make you happy ..Perhaps you could give the car a good polish today if the weather permits ? Looks ok to me as it is tho .Its nice to hear you take your brother out and your Mum .You couldnt do that in a sporty two seater ...Keep creating the new memories weve talked about ,The old ones will soon dissapear .Hope you have another good day today .Take care and dont forget to ;Polish it behind the door ...:roflmao:..Hugs Sue x:hugs:
Haha thanks Sue, and thanks as well to Myra, your positive input has been a big help so thanks ladies :yesyes:
Myra, I have tried from the beginning of my recovery to maintain a positive attitude; it's very difficult during a blip but I guess it's the reason why I've come so far in one year. If my attitude sucked I'd still be posting about my problems in another 4 years! I want to avoid that fate, and I intend to prove to others that there isn't just light at the end of the tunnel, there is a way out as well.
Sue, you're damn right, I have wanted a stripped out racer like a Honda Integra Type-R or a sports coupe like a CRX or a Prelude but I have responsibilities to my family; they have supported me through difficult times and the least I can do is take them out and help them do the shopping and stuff, so to be honest at this stage a "granddad" car is what I need, seen as they are put together thoughtfully and not just chucked together like a Clio or Corsa or some other boy's car.
Don't worry Sue, I intend to have a good polish later :roflmao:
:hugs:
We'll always be faced with challenges Poet but it's how we deal with them that counts. Perhaps we can't stop the blips from happening but we can learn different ways of handling them. In time I believe they will become less frequent, milder and shorter in duration.
I think that your sense of humour is also important. At times in my life it's felt like it's all I had left.
Keep putting one foot in front of the other; keep moving; stagnation is our worst enemy.
Anyway, where's that ladder? It's a long way down from my soapbox :roflmao:
Anyway, where's that ladder? It's a long way down from my soapbox :roflmao:
Haha what soapbox? I think there are plenty of people here who recognise your valuable contributions to NMP and it's obvious you are striving to get better. You're a member of NMP for good reasons. It's not like you are only here because you've got nowhere else to go. :)
As you say, stagnation is the enemy. Getting stuck in a rut is the surest way to get trapped in a state of anxiety and unhappiness. Getting out of the house for a few hours for whatever reason is a break for your body and mind.
I've noticed that it really is bad memories that make anxiety and depression feel worse. We try to look forward but all we can see is what we've already been through. When that happens we're not looking forward, we're looking back. It's often hard to tell the difference.
I think that your sense of humour is also important. At times in my life it's felt like it's all I had left.
Those days are gone forever for us both mate. You've made friends here and you've made progress. I for one appreciate your sense of humour and I'm sure plenty of other members do too.
Well a couple of days have gone by and a lot has happened; when I woke yesterday it was nearly 1pm lol. I was a bit upset because I finally admitted that I had stayed in bed because I had nothing to get up for. I've been very busy over the last 3 weeks so it was sort of a shock to have an empty day.
But it turned out to be a pretty full day after all; we took my mum out to find her a car and I spent the evening with friends. Not bad considering I was dreading having nothing to do.
It has properly bolstered me cos from now on I know that an empty day is a day just waiting to be filled. It doesn't mean I will be stuck feeling low or bored. More proof as well that socialising and getting out into the world can completely reverse a low mood.
Sometimes when the adrenaline wears off you go back to feeling flat and that's not nice at all. You have to bear in mind that it's just the way you are at this point in your life, it isn't permanent and it certainly isn't to be feared.
I get the feeling that 2010 is the year of mastering fear!
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