View Full Version : Considering taking Prozac? Type before you swallow that pill.
If you are thinking of taking Prozac, or any pharmaceuticals for depression for that matter....post a message in this thread before you swallow that pill! I want to know what is going on in your head, and how you are feeling.
Depression is normal. We are all depressed at one point or another. Everyone is depressed on and off throughout their lives. EVERYONE
Sometimes it lasts years, sometimes it only lasts minutes. Forget what the doctors tell you about it being abnormal if you are feeling depressed for more than a few months. What is abnormal is to treat human beings like happy robots.
Enjoy being human. Try enjoying your depression...that is the ultimate antidepressant.
What Planet are you from , and what phd have you got , unless you have depression yourself you arent within your rights to make these comments , medication is a way of getting through these times , depression if left untreated can be a killer , i should know ive been there more than once !!!!!!
Are you a Scientologist by any chance?
Having suffered on and off for many years, I find depression is one of the most debilitating mental illnesses ever.
It took the most basic of my thinking and feeling rights away. I saw no reason to live, let alone try and 'enjoy' the feeling, as you say
I also am well aware of the evils of medication, but I would take them for the rest of my life, if that kept the black dog away.
There are always new members on this forum, and a post providing this extreme viewpoint is in the least upsetting and confusing. I'd rather that they trusted the professional medical community more than a personal opinion such as yours
A rather controversial post if you don't mind me saying mantra ;)
Do you suffer from depression? have you had experience with SSRI's ?
As for enjoying depression, what a wild statement.
Feel free to think before you come back to me :)
Where would humanity be without medical intervention and drugs? What about transplant patients taking anti-rejection drugs or diabetics without insulin? The list is endless. I for one am eternally grateful to whoever discovered antidepressents. Its thanks to them that I can now lead a near normal life.
Mantra, having looked through your previous posts, I see you've also been so low where you can see no other way than medication.
To make such sweeping statements about medication and depression is both irrisponsible and frightening to people who are trying to reduce and those just starting this drug.
Ok, so medication isnt for everyone but what about clinical depression? No anount of therapy is going to cure that, no matter how hard you try, just medication.
Oh, and by the way - can you tell me what enjoyment I was meant to get from lying in bed crying for 2 months? I'm fascinated to hear your opinion on that one!
I asked if you were a Scientologist because I know that they do not believe in any form of drugs used for anxiety or depression. Some of them have obviously never been there to that black hole of despair and desolation.
Jannie2948
28-02-10, 20:28
Sounds like you opened your mouth and put your size 9's straight in it! Did you not consider before posting this how you would affect those people who are suffering? If you have ever been to that place that so many of us on here have, you would most definitely not have been so thoughtless in what you had to say. Here's hoping you don't ever have to go to those dark places that some of us had to.
Thank you for the responses.
I am from the planet Earth. I have been diagnosed with "clinical depression" amongst other "illnesses".
Crying in bed for two months is tough...Yes, I have been through such phases.
I used to be on meds. They worked on me for a while. I used to like them. I was too scared to face my strong feelings. Shit happens in life. I was too scared to face the shit, and to face the mess the shit created in me.
All drugs are the same. They work for a while, then they stop. Then what to do? Take something else? Up the dose? Combinations? Excercise? Change in diet? Therapy? I have tried these options as well. They may be worth trying but all are empty avenues without meditation.
Taking meds numbs you. It masks the actual problems you have. Now I am off of them, I am cleaning up the mess. All the supressed feelings of the past have to be dealt with. The longer you leave them, the deeper they will affect you. Isnt that common sense?
Depression is different to diabetes or organ transplants for the ultra obvious reasons which I will no get into here. (Common sense right?)
Prozac is way way way more complicated. It will complicate things further.
I am not trying to frighten anyone here. I am not judging anyone either.
It is a blessing to have emotions, to have feelings rather than be numb. Yes, I have cried and cried not being able to leave the house for months. It is okay to do that. There is nothing wrong with crying. It is cleansing. It balances you hormonally. You probably needed it. The important part is NOT TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF WITH YOUR SADNESS.
No, I am not a Scientologist...
I am encouraging people to question authority, and be responsible for your own well being. It is the ONLY way. There is help if you ask for it. But it is up to you to distinguish if it is the right kind of help or not. Remember, as a grown adult, you, and only you are responsible for your own health. Ignorance is not an excuse.
I personally made the choice to say yes to sadness and happiness no matter how severe either one is. The human being is neither. We have it in us to transcend all these things naturally. That is MEDITATION. The experiencing of the "witness consciousness" is the only real help with no negative side effect.
BE BRAVE
Good luck to you all.
Peace
Just like to say, I HATE medication, I HATE being on them, I HATE needing them...what I DON'T hate is the chance they have given me to get back to 'normal' (and I use the word 'normal' loosely folks!). I feel like I am recovering (and you should read my earlier posts when I was cussing mirtazapine to high heaven). The medication has kick-started me back into action. Because they have lifted my mood, I now have the willpower to get out of bed and go swimming, go the the supermarket and buy ingredients for nice healthy recipes. I'm not there yet, I've another week to go before I finish completely but I believe they had a part to play. We are all different and the advice we give on this forum is our own personal opinion and it is up to the individual to weigh up everybody's experiences and decided a course of action for themselves. Your sweeping statement, your generalisation has no positive role to play on this forum...where on earth are you coming from Mantra?Tell me. Ill give you a fair platform. Please, elaborate!
A rather controversial post if you don't mind me saying mantra ;)
Do you suffer from depression? have you had experience with SSRI's ?
As for enjoying depression, what a wild statement.
Feel free to think before you come back to me :)
Thank you for your response Jaco :)
Yes, enjoying depression!
Sounds wild but actually it is quite logical.
I do counseling and healing work. Yes seems a tad bit radical, but I have had success with it. People tend to get caught up in how they are "meant" to feel. Feeling sorry for one another makes things worst. The more you feed a certain energy frequency such as an emotion, the more you are encouraging it to exist stongly in your system. By "enjoying" the depression, you are depriving the depression of the fuel with which it survives in your system. It is like shining a flashlight on a shadow...or something.
I know it sounds ridiculous. But it works. Sincerely enjoying the depression immeditately kills it. Right from the root. KAPOW stylee!
Does this make sense to you? If not please get back to me, and I will try to explain better.
Peace x
Hello Mantra,
Sorry if I appeared rude in my previous posts asking you if you were a Scientologist, it's just that I know that they do not believe in meds. I was helped greatly by meds many years ago and if I ever felt like that again then I would not hesitate in taking them. We all need a crutch. However, I am really happy for you to have found your answer to your depression and hope you continue to be enlightened by this. You seem to have tried everything previously and have found the right method towards recovery for you. Good wishes to you.
Myra:flowers:
Just like to say, I HATE medication, I HATE being on them, I HATE needing them...what I DON'T hate is the chance they have given me to get back to 'normal' (and I use the word 'normal' loosely folks!). I feel like I am recovering (and you should read my earlier posts when I was cussing mirtazapine to high heaven). The medication has kick-started me back into action. Because they have lifted my mood, I now have the willpower to get out of bed and go swimming, go the the supermarket and buy ingredients for nice healthy recipes. I'm not there yet, I've another week to go before I finish completely but I believe they had a part to play. We are all different and the advice we give on this forum is our own personal opinion and it is up to the individual to weigh up everybody's experiences and decided a course of action for themselves. Your sweeping statement, your generalisation has no positive role to play on this forum...where on earth are you coming from Mantra?Tell me. Ill give you a fair platform. Please, elaborate!
Hello Smudger.
Which statement are you taking about? Will elaborate if you can identify it for me.
Does it matter where on Earth I come from? We are all human right? We are all citizens of the planet Earth :)
You've failed to sway me from what I've posted previously - sorry
Mantra, we may have been typing at the same time so Ive just read your post. I agree with some of what you say but not everybody is the same! You can't generalise about depression! I agree, tablets aren't always the answer and long term I don't believe they are for me but they had their part to play. Unfortunately there are doctors out there who are prepared to dish out pills will nilly yes but equally there are some doctors out there who know what they are talking about. Thats why this sight exists, to get the depressed persons perspective on things. We are living it, doctors aren't. I am sure your post is well mean't and I am sure somebody will investgAte your advice further, heartedly hope they find their answer in your experience. I think we need to keep open minded about everything though don't you?
Thank you very much for your good wishes Myra :flowers:
No offence taken about Scientology. I dont know much about them...
Yes medication can be a crutch...but..
I cant help but feel I didnt have to use them then though. My body would be operating smoother if I hadnt taken Prozac or anything else and went straight for the meditation.
Pain is a great teacher. When we are in pain, the body is trying to tell us something. Surely masking the pain is not the answer.
The only good thing I feel I got out of taking meds for over 7 years is to understand what people are going through...and to encourage something healthier.
Thank you again Myra, and all the best, all the way xx
Mantra, we may have been typing at the same time so Ive just read your post. I agree with some of what you say but not everybody is the same! You can't generalise about depression! I agree, tablets aren't always the answer and long term I don't believe they are for me but they had their part to play. Unfortunately there are doctors out there who are prepared to dish out pills will nilly yes but equally there are some doctors out there who know what they are talking about. Thats why this sight exists, to get the depressed persons perspective on things. We are living it, doctors aren't. I am sure your post is well mean't and I am sure somebody will investgAte your advice further, heartedly hope they find their answer in your experience. I think we need to keep open minded about everything though don't you?
Totally agree that not everybody is the same Smudger. We all have different experiences. But we are surprisingly similar as well. I agree we need to keep an open mind. WIDE OPEN.
Many doctors are depressed. Many even have co-dependency type of stuff with their patients. Many docs are on meds themselves. Many docs are aware of meditation and their benefits.
There are many different ways of dealing with depression...I just wanted to express my opinion that meditation is the safest, most natural, and most powerful method out there.
Mantra when I said "where on earth are you coming" from I didn't mean that sarcastically or literally. Thats the trouble with typing, you can completely misread the meaning behind something. Thats just a saying instead of saying "I don't understand what you are saying here!" I am interested to know what you mean by "Sincerely enjoying the depression immeditately kills it". How do you actually do that then? I am fascinated I must admit.
Hi Smudger,
Haha! Yes, problem with typing and reading emotions indeed...especially with all the angry responses I got! Dear oh dear...
I really do consider myself a citizen of the planet earth because I am completely mixed racially, and grew up in different countries. There is only one uniting factor: my education was all done in English.
Thank you for taking interest in the "enjoying depression" method :)
Next time you feel depressed, watch the depression. Dont try and run away from it. Watch it. Be aware of it completely, but dont do anything about it...at first. Only watching is enough. This is meditation. Remember, no reacting to the depression. Only awareness of the depression. You will come to the conclusion: "depression is there" rather than "I am depressed". That is the truth. You are actually not depressed technically speaking. You are experiencing a negative state which is not your real self. It is like a cloud in a sky, clouding the sunny sky.
Now, you once you can do that, you can take it to the next level. Enjoying the depression. By reacting to an emotion, you are feeding it for further growth. So no more of the normal reaction. Shock the depression. Give it something it doesnt expect. Take it by surprise, then give it a powerful antidote!!! Enjoyment is the antidote of depression.
It is very hard to describe in words... find an emotion that is unpleasant, then try enjoying the unpleasantness. It is absurd. That is basically the point really. You realize the absurdity of all these emotions and you dont identify with them anymore. It is like shining a flashlight onto a shadow the shape of a scary monster.
By depriving depression with its essential nutrients for survival (identification), and replacing it with a powerful antidote, depression will slowly not want to bother you anymore. Depression will understand there is no place for it to grow in the garden of your mind once you rid the very stuff it survives on.
eeyorelover
28-02-10, 21:35
Of course we are all human being but we are also individuals.
It is because of our individuality that there will never be one treatment for anxiety, depression, and related issues. What works for one does not apply to all.
Some may feel the need to take medication and some may not.
It's an individual decision that should be reached between the patient and their doctor.
I'm thrilled when someone finds a method that works for them whether it be therapy, meds, natural healing, meditation, exercise, or any other form.
As with anything we go through in life finding what works is a process. It takes time and even sometimes mistakes. I too believe that failing is an essential part of the learning process and of life in general. Without failure there would never be success.
I would suggest that it is a slippery slope to say that someone should not use medication when dealing with depression. Perhaps it would be better instead to say that you found medication not to be the course that helped in your recovery but to infer that no one should use medication to (at least) lessen the physical and psychological effects of depression would be a sweeping statement that no one should make.
As with any treatment, it isn't a matter for you or me or any other lay person to decide, instead it is a first person decision that should be made after careful consideration, much research, and conversations with their gp.
xxx
Sandy
Thank you for your wonderful post Sandy.
Very true. There is no success without failure. I often beat myself up about my past choice, then I keep reminding myself what you just mentioned. No point in beating oneself up :D
I agree careful consideration is super important. Going to the doc is also important.
I did not say that no one should use medication. I am in no position to say to anyone that they should not take Prozac. I will express my own personal view: I dont like Prozac.
I do want people to know what they are getting into, and that there are other methods. Ancient, tried, tested, and still very relevant if not more relevant in modern life.
I am only expressing my personal opinion, and a method that worked for me.
Thanks again Sandy :) All the best to you xx
You've failed to sway me from what I've posted previously - sorry
Sue Bee,
Please, dont be sorry.
I understand you are angry...yes?
What kind of treatment are you having now? How are you responding to it?
Well you have a different style mantra, I will give you that ;)
Mantra. I sort of get what you are saying. By the way, if you had given the full explanation as your first post I don't think people would have reacted so strongly! Now you have explained things, its easier to ask questions or make sense of where you are coming from. I gotta say, you got our attention though!Well done!lol!:yahoo:
I have come to a realization that long term I feel medication isn't for me. If, and thats a big 'IF', I continue with a healthy lifestyle, diet n exercise (I never suffer with depression when I do this!EVER!). For example I had a low day last week, I woke up feeling awful. I did nothing about it. I just lazed around. Result, I did nothing productive and felt worse and had a sleepless night. I have had days since then that began that way but those times, I knew I had to take myself off to the swimming baths. Get some exercise. N you know what? The endorphins kicked in and presto mood better. In a way am I doing what you are suggesting? Is it about self awareness and not allowing the state to envelope you and swallow you up? I sort of take the feeling and turn it into a positive in a way, a sign that my body is saying "hey you, you need to release some happy endorphins, get your ass down the gym?" If so, I feel empowered. That really comforts me to have that control over my state of mind!
Haha...Yes Smudger, no one responded to my first post or other threads for that matter :D So I decided to express my opinion and see what happens!
Yes, isnt it comforting to know that you have control over your state of mind? Not someone else, some state, or company? It is freedom and responsibility at the same time. It is walking tall and being the noble human being that you were born to be. Good for you! Suitable excercise, suitable food, suitable breathing, and suitable relaxation are all vital in being sane.
I started off doing kick boxing (there was so much anger in me), and noticed the happy chemicals being released. Then I started doing that and going to the gym to do cardio and weights all together. Then I got hooked on going to the gym for three years straight. One day in two weeks off max. I was desperately hooked! I would enter and train for running competitions and make sure I would win. I even experienced withdrawal from not working out :roflmao: I remember breaking down and crying on my recovery days.
Then I stumbled upon Yoga! My life changed with Hatha Yoga. Now I combine Hatha Yoga with gentle aerobic excercise (fast walking, occasional light jog, gentle swimming). I found this combo is the best to avoid extreme chemical imbalances and promote a stable system.
Add prayer and or meditation to that...then BOOM you just discovered dynamite.
It is as powerful as that I admit once you do it. This time though I got so low I need a med to get me going again! I just couldn't shift out of my 'coma' so to speak. I think where people would find this difficult is the get up and go part. This time, something just wouldn't click with me. I do think at last that I have discovered my pattern of depression because there is definately a pattern with me when I look back over the years and it all comes back to the same factors. The trick now is not to let it take hold again! I am a pessimistic person by nature. Its my protective shield. If I do not expect to much them I can only be pleasantly surprised! Hence, I lie in wait for those same feelings when I wake up, its inevitable to me. But now I know what I gotta do. Can I maintain this new way of living and thinking? How do you do it?
I know what you mean by not feeling like being able to click out of the coma. The best thing to do during these times, is not to expect anything. Be patient. Dont expect to click out of anything. Dont expect to just get up and go. We are not machines. It is best not to force anything. There is defnitely a pattern to depressive behaviour. Do you keep a diary? This can help in identfying triggers. Often times we just respond to these triggers without being aware of them. Behaving like machines! Push buttons and get responses. Once awareness comes into the equation, you do not need to respond anymore. It takes effort at first, then it becomes easier with practice.
Maintaining this way of living of awareness, and non-identifying with negative emotions is a battle within. It is warfare. It is in your hands wether you win or lose... I am much happier with myself knowing that I am dealing with my emotions bravely rather than opting to be a medicated machine. This gives me motivation to fight. I tell myself how brave and strong I am. Give yourself credit for the wonderful choice you made, for not succumbing to that inferior voice.
It can be challenging on some days. The challenge has not stopped for me. The best you can do is practice this new way of being until it becomes second nature. Practice, practice, practice.
You are absolutely right Smudger. The trick is not to let that pattern take a hold of you. Bring your witnessing consciousness to the foreground of your mind and let that consciousness take a hold of your pattern instead. That pattern will show its ugly face repeatedly. Do not be surprised, and do not be discouraged.
It is a battle. But not one that can be won with force. Patience is key.
When I read the first post made by mantra, I thought, "Yeah, let me just enjoy my next sinus infection without meds too." Then, as I read more, I thought that this is sort of what Claire Weekes says. Claire says to face the panic. Accept it. Float through it and let time pass. She says that fighting the panic is not the way to defeat it. I think this might be what mantra is saying about depression, yes? It takes much strength and fortitude to actually do this.
But we have to realize that we don't all have that kind of strength. When a deep depression hits, there is no energy to find a way out of the darkness. There is no enjoyment and we know that this is not what life is supposed to be. We want to be happy. We have a right to be happy and to feel "normal." When a person is at this level, meds may be the only way back to being who we are.
It is an individual decision, I believe. I have Meniere's Disease. I had a good friend who also had it and he used to speak with me about not wanting to take his meds because he thought he was being weak. I asked him if he had cancer, would he take the meds and he said of course he would. What's the difference then? If one has an ailment, whether it be physical or mental, sometimes meds are the only way to go.
I applaud those who can battle depression or anxiety without medication. I do not condemn those who choose to use it (not that you are, mantra).
Just my thoughts.:)
Thank you for your post Corinne :)
Yes, what I am saying is similar to what your friend Claire suggests. Yes, it takes strenghth and fortitude. Everything in life that is valuable is worth cultivating that strength and fortitude though. Valuable things come at a high price.
We all have this strength. It is wether we chose to acknowledge it or not. Wether we accept it or not. It is wether we chose to tap into this strength conciously decide to pump it into our systems or not. It is like a drug...but with no negative side effect.
Taking medication as "the only way to go" is a very desperate outlook on things indeed. Desperation is not the nature of the human being. It doesnt have to be that way. There are many different ways, and many different ways can work differently. Why not give other methods a chance? People are prescribing meds left right and center. The average patient takes it because it has been presented to them as "the only wayto go". Why not open up the mind a bit more?
To be brutally honest..."the only way to go" is death :D That is where it all leads to right? I have heard of many people who have a disease, but chose to not take the meds and let the body do what it has to do. Even if it means dying. These people are more content this way. I am not saying this is the "right" way. All I am trying to say is that there is no such things a "the only way to go". This is a destructive attitude.
Here is a more constructive "only way to go". Take the responsibility of health in your own hands, and see what happens. That "only way to go" is not a limited one like taking medication. It can include taking medication, if you wish. It can include going to the doc...but with the awareness that you yourself are responsible for yourself.
General questions on recovery (not directing it at you personally Corinne):
-What is normal?
-What is strength?
-What is weakness?
-What is happiness?
-What is depression?
-Can you accept health?
With health comes responsibility...
These are questions I recommend anyone who is about to take antidepressants before taking them, or is already taking them...actually...these are questions every human being should reflect on. Answering them can turn out to be quit revealing to your present situation.
-Do you surround yourself with people who are supportive of your strengths? Or with people who sustain your limited self image? (It is better off to be on your own during a turbulent time when you are trying to establish your own strength and center rather than take in the opinion of those that are confused/sustaining limited beliefs of yourself/putting you down.)
Jannie2948
01-03-10, 07:48
I too wish that you had explained yourself in more detail as you have done in your later posts. I read Dr Claire Weekes and I find some of what she says hard to put into action. I think that for those of us who have had to go down the line of taking meds we should not be made to feel that we are failures. I would love to one day be able to 'float' past all this that is going on inside my head and be meds free but until I feel that I am able to do that, I have to take the meds to get me through the day. I work full-time and my job is very important to me and I know that I would not be able to function properly without the meds. I do try to accept that I have a problem, but like any other illness we have to do whatever is best for us at the time. I would love to be be able to accept the way that I feel and I do know that it is just my mind doing this to me and I would love to let it just sweep over me and know that it is only me that is doing this to myself. I hope one day that I will be able to say that I am in that place and be free of this and free of the meds.
Jannie
Wow Jannie! That is a beautiful post you just put up.
I feel you.
You are not a failure. People who are on meds are not failures. People on meds acknowledged the fact that something is not right, and are doing something about it. So far so good... Then what next?
Take it step by step. The slower the recovery, the more stable the recovery, and sure you are of what is being done.
What meds are you on now?
Jannie2948
01-03-10, 08:24
At the moment I am taking Citalopram and my Dr also prescribes a diazapam to get me through the bad days when I can't stop shaking. Mine isn't so much depression as anxiety/panic, which in turn makes me feel very sad. I am usually a very happy outgoing person and this hit me late last year, although realistically I'm sure I have suffered with this for many years but it reared its ugly head in a bad way late last year. I do understand what you are saying, if only I could put it into practice. I also feel that for those of us who need the meds your first post came across as a bit of a kick in the teeth. I only wish that one day I could get this right in my head and go back to being my 'normal' self. I try to take it each day as it comes and some days are good other days not so good. I'm lucky that I have fantastic work colleagues and 2 great sons who are totally there for me. Here's hoping that once the meds have got me to a place in my mind that I can relax and not panic so much I will be able to slowly come off them.
Jannie
This post could have been really contentious, but its its been really worthwhile. I hope people read it and give it thought.
At the moment I am taking Citalopram and my Dr also prescribes a diazapam to get me through the bad days when I can't stop shaking. Mine isn't so much depression as anxiety/panic, which in turn makes me feel very sad. I am usually a very happy outgoing person and this hit me late last year, although realistically I'm sure I have suffered with this for many years but it reared its ugly head in a bad way late last year. I do understand what you are saying, if only I could put it into practice. I also feel that for those of us who need the meds your first post came across as a bit of a kick in the teeth. I only wish that one day I could get this right in my head and go back to being my 'normal' self. I try to take it each day as it comes and some days are good other days not so good. I'm lucky that I have fantastic work colleagues and 2 great sons who are totally there for me. Here's hoping that once the meds have got me to a place in my mind that I can relax and not panic so much I will be able to slowly come off them.
Jannie
Haha! But I got your attention from the early post Jannie :) I cant get into detail from the first post. I wanted a dialogue to begin.
My intension was not to anger...it was to make people snap out of it a little. I was not feeling strong, effective creative support going on from most of the threads in the forum. People feeling sorry for each other is not an effective support method. Talking about meds is fine...but there is so much more to getting well than just meds.
"For those of us who need meds..." Jannie, I want you to be completely aware of that statement that you just made. This way of talking reinforces those exact feelings you want to get rid of. Not only for yourself, but for others by including them in the "us".
Everyone changes everyday. Our bodies change, our minds change, our emotions change. Everything changes. What is normal? Is being happy normal? Perhaps striving to be happy all the time is causing a lot of suffering.
If you want something and wish for it hard enough. Work towards it with patience, nothing can stop you from getting it. You say "if only I could put it into practice." Give it a shot. Go for it. I can feel that is what you really want to do.
Don't just hope Jannie. Ask for it with your whole being. Hoping is not good enough. You can do it slowly but surely.
All the best to you xx
This post could have been really contentious, but its its been really worthwhile. I hope people read it and give it thought.
Hi Smudger:D Thank you so much for your response. Let me know if you ever try Hatha Yoga.
I'll read about it. I'm always willing to try things. I enjoy pilates at the moment coz it focuses my mind, slows down my thoughts, slows down my pulse even! Its gr8 in calming you down! I wish I could take everybody who suffers on this site who hasn't tried it to a pilates class to try it. Experience how its possible to regain control of your thoughts and feelings again. Put themselves back in the driving seat.
Jannie2948
01-03-10, 17:37
Hi, I get what you're saying Mantra, but I don't mean to include anyone else in my 'us' it is just something that I used as a generalization. There are lots of people on this site on meds. I do try to go for it as you say and wish for it, but some days I just get bogged down with the anxiety and it is hard to get my mind back into a more positive place. The 'floating' is hard to do, any suggestions? I'm not a youngster, and most of my life I've been a relatively 'happy' person, had the usual upsets in life, but generally am quite content. I like the sound of the pilates that smudger talks about, maybe give that a try. Lots of things exercise wise that I can't do cos have had major surgery on my spine but will look into it. Thanks
Jannie
I'll read about it. I'm always willing to try things. I enjoy pilates at the moment coz it focuses my mind, slows down my thoughts, slows down my pulse even! Its gr8 in calming you down! I wish I could take everybody who suffers on this site who hasn't tried it to a pilates class to try it. Experience how its possible to regain control of your thoughts and feelings again. Put themselves back in the driving seat.
Pranayama is excellent. The benefits reaped from Pranayama excercises are immense. I highly recommend it:)
Hi, I get what you're saying Mantra, but I don't mean to include anyone else in my 'us' it is just something that I used as a generalization. There are lots of people on this site on meds. I do try to go for it as you say and wish for it, but some days I just get bogged down with the anxiety and it is hard to get my mind back into a more positive place. The 'floating' is hard to do, any suggestions? I'm not a youngster, and most of my life I've been a relatively 'happy' person, had the usual upsets in life, but generally am quite content. I like the sound of the pilates that smudger talks about, maybe give that a try. Lots of things exercise wise that I can't do cos have had major surgery on my spine but will look into it. Thanks
Jannie
Just like any other technique that one can learn...wether it is baking a cake, playing golf, whatever. You have to practice. The mind and body both want to be your master. But in reality it is you who are the master of both. It takes practice and discipline.
If you have spinal problems, I suggest you lay down flat on your back on a hard bed or floor. No cushions. Assume savasana aka corpse pose(you can google or wikipedia to get the pic and description of the position).
Close your eyes. Concentrate on your breath. Scan through each part of your body and relax everything. Next relax your mind. If thoughts come into your head, just feel your breathing. Dont react or identify with the thoughts. Just do your best to watch them as if they belong to someone else. Practice doing this everyday. Once you get up, do your best to carry this feeling with you throughout the day.
There are plenty of guided meditation audios. These can be extremly helpful if you find it hard to give yourself direction in early days. Slowly you will find you dont need the guidance anymore. So I highly recommend you get a hold of a guided meditation audio with a voice that you find appealing.
Another suggestion...Binaural beats. You can find plenty of places to download binaural beat producing programmes. This is also something you can use in early days, then discard once you get the hang of meditation.
Good luck Jannie. Have fun with it!
Let me know how things go :)
Hi Mantra,
I have been reading this thread with interest. First of all I was also a bit offended and surprised, but what you have to say makes a lot of sense to me so thank you for your thoughts, although your shock and awe tatics are a bit much for people who might be feeling delicate :)
I have both read Claire Weekes book and tried Hatha Yoga and found both to be immensely helpful. I really didn't expect to get anything out of yoga classes and only went to one because my therapist nagged me to go. However, from the first session I felt like I had finally managed to create the 'quiet space' inside my head that I'd been seeking so desperately. Over the last few weeks this has grown to be a vital tool for me when I am feeling sad and low.
I logged onto the site this evening to ask for advice on a new drug that I've been prescribed, so it was a nice surprise to instead be challenged and uplifted by everyone's thoughts in this thread - thank you everyone for your honest contributions they have helped me so much.
I'm currently taking a whole batch of medication for my problems but I know that one day I'll be able to do it without the pills. I think that the key for me will be talking therapy, yoga, exercise and being patient with myself. It might take me a long time but I try to believe that I will get back to my normal life if I keep doing the things that help me to find the 'quite space' again. I hope that others can do whatever it is that they need to also find some quiet space and begin their recovery.
HP xx
Jannie2948
01-03-10, 20:34
Mantra, I've just read your last post to me and thanks so much. I did have a look at some of the Pranayama breathing exercises and gave it a go, very relaxing and good to be able to take that deep relaxing breath. I will certainly be looking at the other things that you have suggested. Once again thanks a lot, sorry I got off on a bad note with you, no excuse I was just being my anxious defensive self with this 'illness'. Hopefully I will be able to start to feel somewhat better whilst trying these different techniques you have suggested. I'll certainly be looking online for them right now.
Jannie
I would never condemn anyone for taking meds for depression or anxiety. I take a small amount of Ativan when the anxiety gets to be too much for me to handle. I have never considered myself a failure for doing so. I know mantra is not condemning anyone either. She is trying to "put out" a different concept of coping and surviving what all of us on this forum go through. It is up to each individual person to weigh her ideas but ultimately decide what is best for our own lives.
Yes Henpen, in general, it is almost always the subtle things that seem to have best effects without side effect. I am not talking about my first post :noangel:I am so glad that this thread upflifted and challenged you in a positive manner. You are so welcome :)
Finding your quiet space is an example of one of those subtle yet powerful influences.
Anything intense (like years of pharmaceuticals, years of heavy excercise) is like treating a precision instrument with a rusty hammer. Sure it works to do something...I am not saying it is "bad", but there are other more suitable ways to deal with such a delicate beautiful instrument.
Your are not your physical body and all it's pains, but it is the only "physical" thing guaranteed to stay with you till death. Listen to what it has to say to you. Take it into consideration, but dont obey it. You are the master. The body is serving you. Take good care of your body by being kind, loving, and patient towards it.
You are most welcome Jannie.
No worries. I understand how people can get angry and defensive. Medication for depression is a sensitive subject. No offense taken :)
Hopefully? No more hoping! "I will do it, slowly." This is the attitude that will get you off meds.
Tapering down very slowly while introducing good stuff into your routine right away. Wherever there is a void, it is nature's way to want to fill it. Better fill it with something wholesome before something ugly takes its place. Because of your spinal condition, I recommend only pranayama and meditation (to begin with) . Gentle pranayama for the first few months. Doing abdominal/diaphragmatic breathing for the first month to bring awareness of breath into your daily life is a great beginning. Please dont jump straight into the advanced stuff. Although it may seem like nothing, breath is mind altering powerful stuff.
Patience plays the most important role throughout the entire recovery process. If you feel terrible (which is almost certain...it is natural even for those who are not trying to quit meds), try and stay on your own during this time. Wait and see what happens. Practice the new methods you are trying to learn. No need to "do" anything as a reaction on the feeling terrible. This will dig your hole even deeper.
Patience will be your new best friend.
I would never condemn anyone for taking meds for depression or anxiety. I take a small amount of Ativan when the anxiety gets to be too much for me to handle. I have never considered myself a failure for doing so. I know mantra is not condemning anyone either. She is trying to "put out" a different concept of coping and surviving what all of us on this forum go through. It is up to each individual person to weigh her ideas but ultimately decide what is best for our own lives.
Thank you for your post Corinne.
Coping and surviving is good. Then pump it up to the next level of enjoying!!!
Enjoy the choices you make for coping and surviving. There are so many to chose from.
Hello Mantra,
I have been following your thread from the start and I thought how true, but for me its if only I could get my thoughts on the straight and narrow. I know it can be done, I had a natural birth with my third child purely through being focused in my thoughts and breathing correctly, so I do believe the thought process and breathing can be put into other areas of my mind. (if that makes sense) I am going to try the savasana position you suggested to Jannie as I have had sciatica for over a week now. The painkillers don't work and I was so down last week I asked the doctor for anti-d's! They are untouched and sitting out the way as I really know deep down that I can get over this episode. But, also know that the meds have worked for me in the past, they gave me the 'time' to gather myself and move forward.
I find it really difficult having a young son to find that tiny time of peace to get the ball rolling. I even looked up yoga classes yesterday after reading this thread! Maybe I just need to get my sore butt out of the house on my own for an hour to start learning the techniques properly. I have a couple of yoga dvd's but again its when I have a spare hour to focus on it without being jumped on!!
Thank you for your post as it has and will make me start looking for inner peace again. I learn't a lot of techniques once through a spiritual healing course, which is (looking back) is how I managed to get over panic attacks - all through breathing and being focused. I might go and dust all those books down and start meditating again.
Thank you xx
Zojo,
You are so welcome, and thank you for your uplifting post!
You going through natural birth proved to yourself how strong you are. Giving birth that way requires a hell of a lot of courage in this day and age.
Pain is a great teacher. One of the things it can teach us is how strong we really are. Thanks to the natural birth experience, now you know deep down inside that you are strong enough to handle the situation without having resort to meds.
Yes, the painkillers stop working after a while. If it is not too much, listen to the pain. It is probably trying to say something important to you (and it is probably not "please take painkillers". Lets get to the root of your pain. Close your eyes. Lay in Savasana. Focus on your breath. Dissociate your identity with the pain and bring your witnessing consciousness forward. Listen to your pain. Do specific moments enter your consciousness? Was it when you lifted something? During excercise? Habitual unomfortable posture? Dont judge yourself when these moments arise in your mind. Just watch. What attitude did you have towards yourself when you were doing that activity/holding the posture which triggered the pain?
I don't know the details of you sciatica...but I am giving you a basic guideline on how to meditate on pain. You will learn so much and benefit so much from this process it is incredible. This method does not only apply on physical pain. It can be done on an emotional level as well. Remember not to identify yourself with the pain. This will worsten the situation. You are not your pain. Pain is your teacher.
All the best xx
You picked up on the word "hopefully", Mantra. It's a word that is used over and over again here on the forum. It is a word of reassurance but with little meaning. It implies a lack of control. "I don't know what to do but hopefully things will get better." Does it not imply that an outside agency will make me better without me doing anything? And this is the whole philosophy behind medication too. Take a pill and get better without me doing anything to get to the core, root problems. It's also easy for the medical profession. Take these tablets and you'll - hopefully - get better. Easy.
I'm not against medication and I'm not for it either. I take meds myself for a number of problems I have but I never expected it to "cure" me. However, meds have their place in recovery - crude as they may be at the present time.
How do you get a person that can't even get out of bed for lack of motivation or is experiencing suicidal thoughts to meditate? How do you get them to want to get better? How do you make them see that hating yourself is such a waste when life can be so beautiful? I believe that this is where medication can play a role in giving that person the push or lift to be able to even contemplate getting better. What I'm saying is that psychiatric drugs should be used only in severe cases of mental illness, not handed out as it is now because people don't want to look at the real problems in their lives and deal with them. And there are other motivations behind the increase in handing out these drugs which leads to other topics.
Meds are NOT a cure but can be a valuable tool in getting on the road to recovery.
There are many roads to recovery and I agree that meditation is one of them.
Thanks for your post Melancholia :)
Please allow me to answer your questions:
1) How do you get a person that can't even get of out bed for lack of motivation or is experiencing suicidal thoughts to meditate?
A person that can't get out of bed for lack of motivation can meditate. Check out the Savasana (corpse) pose. Pretend to be a dead body. No motion is necessary.
This should go down well with people experiencing suicidal thoughts. Why not pretend to be a corpse before actually becoming one? You dont even need to build up the motivation and courage to take action on the dark thought. Let go of your body without violence. Experience death and become pure consciousness.
A person with lack of motivation is actually very motivated indeed. They are motivated in demotivating themselves. All the negative thoughts buzzing around in the head is using a load of energy. Once a demotivated person does something, the energy has gone from buzzing in the mind to activity. There is release...and relief. Mind is your servant. Constant negative thoughts is what happens to an untrained mind that has forgotten who the real master is. The master is your witness consciousness.
2) How do you get them to want to get better? How do you make them see that hating yourself is such a waste when life can be so beautiful?
That is a tough one. They have to want it themselves first. You can't make people see what they don't want to see. Forcing recovery is not a good method.
When the person is ready, they will see. The best you can do for people like this is to discourage them from taking any action based on their negative feelings. This will at least prevent further mess. Shoving remedies down their throat (literally and metaphorically speaking) when they are not willing to accept is a waste of your time and energy. It can even have a negative effect. Show that you are around, and when they are ready to see these things they will come to you. Then you can share whatever it is that both find beautiful in life that you feel you can both enjoy it together. This will motivate them to experience some more beauty in life.
If they are asking for help, that is a sign that they want to get better. If you can help them, by all means you should help them. If they are more than you can handle, put yourself first and refer them to someone who you believe can help them.
Patience is required from the depressed person, but also from you.
3)I believe that this is where medication can play a role in giving that person the push or lift to be able to even contemplate getting better.
This point is in reference to the questions mentioned in 2.
Ok...medication can play a role for sure. But after taking the meds for a few years the body will get used to it and they will stop working. No work has been done at the root of the problem. Then what? You will be back to feeling depressed with the added burden of detoxing the meds from your system. Or you will have to switch to some other meds and or on a cocktail of meds and you will be stuck in an endless loop of medication and worstened depression. This is exactly what happened to me. Why push someone to want to get better when you may be pushing them towards a delayed depression effect? PATIENCE is key once again.
Melancholia, are you talking about a friend you have specifically that doesnt want to get better?
My family wanted me medicated because they didnt understand what is going on and they just wanted to "see me well". Although they love me, I know it is because they are ignorant concerning this subject, and they didnt want to see me "depressed". It made them feel much better seeing me up and about going about my everyday business "undepressed". Sometimes people dont have the patience to see a patient patiently recover with their own strength. This is wrong. Everyone has their own rhythm, and this rhythm should be respected. If other people dont, it is your duty to respect yours at least.
Medication definitely is a tool on the road of recovery. But I will not put much value on them. It is a poor, crude tool.
After taking several different meds in different combinations, I felt I was insulting my own fine tuned precision instrument: my body. The mind, body, and spirit are far too superior to be fooled by these meds in the long run.
Meditation on the other hand, is not just one of the roads to recovery. It is the superior road to recovery! No negative side effect, can be done anywhere, doesnt cost anything. Everyone can benefit from meditation. The great thing is that state of mind can be accessed in a multitude of ways. In the "classical method" (sitting down cross legged/on a chair/savasana), walking, swimming, cooking, gardening, eating, listening, singing, chanting, you name it! Meditation is all about being the watcher. Being the witness.
By meditation you can re-experience the true nature of your being. This is the ultimate cure.
Thanks for your post Melancholia :)
Please allow me to answer your questions:
1) How do you get a person that can't even get of out bed for lack of motivation or is experiencing suicidal thoughts to meditate?
A person that can't get out of bed for lack of motivation can meditate. Check out the Savasana (corpse) pose. Pretend to be a dead body. No motion is necessary.
This should go down well with people experiencing suicidal thoughts. Why not pretend to be a corpse before actually becoming one? You dont even need to build up the motivation and courage to take action on the dark thought. Let go of your body without violence. Experience death and become pure consciousness.
A person with lack of motivation is actually very motivated indeed. They are motivated in demotivating themselves. All the negative thoughts buzzing around in the head is using a load of energy. Once a demotivated person does something, the energy has gone from buzzing in the mind to activity. There is release...and relief. Mind is your servant. Constant negative thoughts is what happens to an untrained mind that has forgotten who the real master is. The master is your witness consciousness.
2) How do you get them to want to get better? How do you make them see that hating yourself is such a waste when life can be so beautiful?
That is a tough one. They have to want it themselves first. You can't make people see what they don't want to see. Forcing recovery is not a good method.
When the person is ready, they will see. The best you can do for people like this is to discourage them from taking any action based on their negative feelings. This will at least prevent further mess. Shoving remedies down their throat (literally and metaphorically speaking) when they are not willing to accept is a waste of your time and energy. It can even have a negative effect. Show that you are around, and when they are ready to see these things they will come to you. Then you can share whatever it is that both find beautiful in life that you feel you can both enjoy it together. This will motivate them to experience some more beauty in life.
If they are asking for help, that is a sign that they want to get better. If you can help them, by all means you should help them. If they are more than you can handle, put yourself first and refer them to someone who you believe can help them.
Patience is required from the depressed person, but also from you.
Now, the first and second points are really the same question. The person doesn't want to change and lack of motivation is involved in not wanting to change. Of course they have motivation directed in other negative (perhaps) aspects but to call it motivation is not really correct: we can use "energy" here because motivation is always associated with the positive.
Without wanting to change or get better nothing will happen. In fact something does happen: they become more and more enmeshed in the status quo. It's been said many times that the first step is the last step and here we're talking about taking that first step. A radical transformation is not possible without it, whatever anyone may say.
3)I believe that this is where medication can play a role in giving that person the push or lift to be able to even contemplate getting better.
This point is in reference to the questions mentioned in 2.
Ok...medication can play a role for sure. But after taking the meds for a few years the body will get used to it and they will stop working. No work has been done at the root of the problem. Then what? You will be back to feeling depressed with the added burden of detoxing the meds from your system. Or you will have to switch to some other meds and or on a cocktail of meds and you will be stuck in an endless loop of medication and worstened depression. This is exactly what happened to me. Why push someone to want to get better when you may be pushing them towards a delayed depression effect? PATIENCE is key once again.
Melancholia, are you talking about a friend you have specifically that doesnt want to get better?
It's a sweeping statement to say that meds will stop working. Yes, they might but for many people they don't. However, it doesn't mean that their issues have been dealt with either. It just keeps them on an even keel, stable but not "cured", and what I have said is that meds should be combined with other non-drug therapies. I know very well about drugs and tolerance. Drugs shouldn't be something that you take forever. As I said, they can give the person that doesn't want to change or get better or sees absolutely no "hope" that initial "push" or motivation in the right direction shall we say. As I also said, it's not the ideal scenario and I know very well about side effects and other nasty things implicated in taking psych-meds.
No, I'm not referring to anyone else here: just a "hypothetical" person! These are my own observations.
My family wanted me medicated because they didnt understand what is going on and they just wanted to "see me well". Although they love me, I know it is because they are ignorant concerning this subject, and they didnt want to see me "depressed". It made them feel much better seeing me up and about going about my everyday business "undepressed". Sometimes people dont have the patience to see a patient patiently recover with their own strength. This is wrong. Everyone has their own rhythm, and this rhythm should be respected. If other people dont, it is your duty to respect yours at least.
I agree with you here but people just want a quick solution and want you better ASAP. It's more to do with misguided concern than anything else.
Medication definitely is a tool on the road of recovery. But I will not put much value on them. It is a poor, crude tool.
After taking several different meds in different combinations, I felt I was insulting my own fine tuned precision instrument: my body. The mind, body, and spirit are far too superior to be fooled by these meds in the long run.
Meditation on the other hand, is not just one of the roads to recovery. It is the superior road to recovery! No negative side effect, can be done anywhere, doesnt cost anything. Everyone can benefit from meditation. The great thing is that state of mind can be accessed in a multitude of ways. In the "classical method" (sitting down cross legged/on a chair/savasana), walking, swimming, cooking, gardening, eating, listening, singing, chanting, you name it! Meditation is all about being the watcher. Being the witness.
By meditation you can re-experience the true nature of your being. This is the ultimate cure.
Well, I think some people would disagree but I can definitely see the value of such things.
You have obviously had a bad experience with meds and I sympathise with that but maybe you should concentrate on informing us about meditation: what you think it is and what it has done for you.
This is much more of a positive approach, rather than talking about how bad meds are (which many of us already know).
Interesting thread....
I honestly cannot comment on depression and medication but would just like to say this is a really interesting thread and a great discussion that has made me think differently. Another reason why this site is excellent!
Yes, it's definitely given me a lot to think about too - it's made me look at things from a very different angle, but an angle I've been thinking more about recently. I agree, this post has been extremely interesting and not at all what I thought it was at first. Thank you Mantra.
Myra:hugs:
ladybird64
02-03-10, 22:06
I should have stayed away from this because I don't take medication but it looked interesting.
Three times I have tried to reply but my head is so screwed up it's difficult. I react with anger to someone that says my negative thoughts are caused by an untrained mind.
I fight against lack of motivation because I do not have the choice to sit back and wait for strength to come back, I don't "do nothing" my circumstances don't allow it. I don't feel good.
My inner conciousness? No time my friend. Patience is not an option. So, no meds (ever) no therapy, no faith..life goes on.
I'm getting more and more exhausted but thats ok, as long as I'm not wallowing in my depression waiting for someone to come and rescue me then I must be alright.
I know I have gone off at a tangent, apologies for this..I think that what Im trying to say is that I feel you are saying that I have complete control over this and that it is me that is failing here. Hence it must all be my fault.
Funny that, I have been thinking exactly the same thing.
So I guess I'm partially in agreement with you. There. I can be positive. :)
Veronica H
02-03-10, 23:25
:yesyes:well done for the shake up you have given us all Mantra. I have enjoyed it. I am just beginning to practice meditation and am reading ~Matthieu Ricard's book 'Happiness'. He is a Buddhist monk and a real inspiration. I also practice yoga and would not be without it now. I would like to add that I donot believe that I would have got this far without medication, especially in the early days. I was desparate for relief from the overwhelming panic, which at the time felt constant and on a scale of 1 to 10 I would have put my fear at 11. The Dr prescribed a low dose Diazipam which gave me a rest. My heart would race at 120 when resting and this was exhausting. I took a betablocker, again low dose only 30mg per day and this gave me chance to focus on what was really going on and to get my head around it. The Dr prescribed 10mg of Citalopram too to keep me out of depression which had been diagnosed as mild. I remember thinking if this is mild then what poor soul is dealing with the severe variety because this was making me feel so low that I had some very dark thoughts. Clinical depression surely requires some drugs?...I am positive you will have an opinion on this, so go for it:D.
Having read Claire Weekes work I soon realised that my thoughts were causing my nerves to become sensitised and that long term I would have to tackle this. I used her methods but unfortunately because my fight or flight response had been triggered so much, this had attached itself to some irrational fears, the main one looking back being cloustrophobia. Following Dr Weekes advice I forced myself out in the car, to the shops but as recommended with tranquilisation in the early days because challenging these phobias as soon as possible is very important. Even after only a month or so of having these phobias they were hard to break. My nerves had become so sensitised that I donot believe that I would have made it without the meds at this stage, but I did break the phobias early on which was very important long term.
My Dr has constantly monitored my drugs and reviews them every few months, as he only ever gives low doses and looks immediately to counselling and also CBT as part of recovery. In this I am lucky as many other Drs mentioned on this site throw large amounts of drugs at the problem with no explanation or alternatives. I am drug free apart from 10mg of Citalopram which I am soon to reduce. I realise that I am lucky in that I was able to devote the time to this and did not have a job as I had just finished a degree course and my husband was lucky enough to be able to support the family financially at the time. I was able to defer everything, but others are juggling so many responsibilities that they have to use whatever immediate method they can to stay in work. I think drugs played a valuable part in my recovery but changing the way we think is also essential and replacing negative thoughts and negative affirmations with positive ones is a valuable skill and does work.:). I am so pleased that you have found a way forward that works for you Mantra:bighug1:. 'Peace and happiness'....I am practically a Buddhist these days.
Veronicax
Ladybird, thank you for taking interest in this thread.
Meds, no meds, doesnt matter. I am glad you posted your feelings here.
"I react with anger to someone that says my negative thoughts are caused by an untrained mind"
This is a great sign. It is natural to feel unpleasantness in the first steps of healing. The detox of your mind has begun. Your anger is coming from the untrained mind dealing with negative patterns :D My inension is not to anger you further or put you down here. So please read on...
This anger is not you. It is the negative behavioural patterns living inside of you.
Your negative thought patterns are causing this to happen when you read the thread because they are desperate for survival in your mind. The thread was challenging the negative patterns that feed off of your life force... "Get angry and stop reading this thread and yes, it is all your fault for failing. Mwahahahahahaha!!!" This is exactly how it wanted you to think, so it can continue to thrive off of you at an ever increasing scale. So well done for posting a response! That is something that your negativity did not want you to do...but the superior part in you knew it may be a good idea to express what is going on.
So, what are you going to do about your anger and negative thoughts? Now you identified it, now you can suffocate it. Stop nourishing it. May I recommend that you just watch it without reacting to it? Just watch it and show that you are the master and that it can not push and shove you around. By not reacting to the anger/negative thought you are training these feelings showing it who is boss around here. Imagine it like a badly behaved dog if you will. This is the beginning of the training. It doesnt require much time. Only awareness.
Your consciousness doesnt require any extra time. You are just raising your consciousness to a higher level. Once you do this, you will notice you work more efficiently with more time on your hands! It may seem paradoxical, but it is true. Those who take time to put relaxation time into their daily routine are more efficient in their daily tasks.
"I know I have gone off at a tangent, apologies for this..I think that what Im trying to say is that I feel you are saying that I have complete control over this and that it is me that is failing here. Hence it must all be my fault."
Everything is your responsibiliy, nothing is your fault.
You are responsible for your thoughts and actions.
Blaming can be left out of the equation here. It is not necessary.
I appreciate your positvity Ladybird :)
Thank you for reading Jimpy :flowers:
Thank you for reading Myra :flowers:
Hello Veronica :flowers:
Thank you so much for your wonderful post.
Buddhism is rich in valuable teachings. This winter I went to listen to a series of lectures given by different monks from all over Japan. Most of their lectures were on health, suffering, and death. All of the monks stressed the importance of prayer and meditation.
Now to the topic of drugs and spirituality...
I used to love drugs. I thought they were great. Pop a pill and go. Drugs stopped working? No problems. I would talk to my Doc and as soon as the suggestion of upping the dose was brought up I would take it. That stopped working. Alright then, let's take some other stuff along with the other stuff. I was feeling great about it for a few years. No one would guess I was being treated for clinical depression. People would commenton how I look great, and how I am doing great. I was a drug fueled high achiever. I felt everything was under my control. Sure there were side effects starting to show up, but I didn't care about it. I weighed it our with how much I was "achieving". What would happen to all my "achieving" once I start to quit.
The years went by like quick sand in a sand clock. Then I was like hold on a sec...it has been 5 years straight of being medicated. That was the first time I even counted the years. I was so caught up in it all. My first reaction was panic and go cold turkey. Bad idea. Failed and went back on them. I was so impatient that next I tapered down but way too fast. That was also a bad idea. I failed quitting those two times because of two things. One of them was impatience. The other was lack of real motive and reason for quitting. I just wanted to quit. Why? I dont know, I dont care...I just want to quit...that was my reason. I didnt look further into it. Basically being young and impatient.
Once I was in a situation where I had no access to Prozac for two whole months. Without choice. I knew Prozac has a long half life, and I had already gone through cold turkey so I was not afraid. Anyways, I wont go into detail about that situation, but that was the least of my worries during those two months. I was still taking Xanax at this point. I noticed something. Around the time the Prozac was leaving my system, something else was kicking in. Awareness and spirituality. Not like the mechanical praying because that is what is required/have to go to church, temple, mosque/God will be angry if I dont/driven by guilt type of spirituality. The drive came from inside me. It was something I always had but the Prozac was supressing it along with many other drives (excluding the drive to "achieve" senselessly hahaha!). Prozac was numbing my spirituality.
After the two months passed, and the Prozac was available to me again, I started taking them again. Like I said earlier, so much was happening during this time that quitting Prozac did not seem like a priority(but I was wrong! it was a great chance for me to quit back then.) I went back to my old high achieving self. After a while, I noticed things were a bit "off". Sure I was getting things done. But for what? I was confused. What was I doing all of this for? For success?? What is success? Money? Recognition? Getting married and having a family? Being beautiful? These goals felt empty to me. My work was going fine. It wasnt exactly what I was totally into (related perhaps but not exactly what i was into)...but I almost forgot about what I am totally into at that point anyways. My relationships on the other hand were going crap. I chose people that were "suitable" for me ignoring my intuition and emotions. Break up after break up. At this point I discovered three things that Prozac weaken: intuition, emotion, spirituality.
Now, the ultimate question. As a human being...what is all of this for? What is success? My answer is: Spiritual development. While I am alive, to experience and appreciate emotions yet achieve a state transcending them. Listen to my intuition. Help others along the way. Prozac at this point of realization, had become a great hinderance to my road of achieving real success.
wiskersonkittens
06-03-10, 13:56
Interesting ...... I think it is all personal -- our depressons, reactions to it, and how it is resolved. I suffer severe depression and I am not only missing out on life itself, but having special moments with my kids. I am always some place else, far away. It took a total stranger to see through the walls of strength I have put up -- no one close to me, which is sad -- and told me she was going to help me get the help I need. I am not the biggest fan of meds, myself, but if I can get my life back I think I am at the point where I would take them again. I, too, would be interested in the statement about enjoying the depression. I know it is important for us to embrace who we are and accept that, but somethings can be overbearing and dark. I can't embrace that side of me. I want to embrace the side of me that enjoys life, enjoys my kids, and feels whole not empty. It's been a long time since I have known that part of me.
I would certainly be interested more on your thoughts on this -- where you are coming from. I would like to think you didn't mean any harm by it, but rather trying to be optomistic, but what was said can be interpreted in many ways, especially by those of us who are in the battle for our lives, emotionally. Wiskers ~
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