View Full Version : stop expecting instant results
kirstyelizabeth
22-04-10, 21:00
I just wanted to share my experience with everyone from reading various topics. I really think people read too much into things on this site and it makes them more anxious. When i first started on cit 6 months ago i read various topics on here and got myself in a far worse state than what i needed to be. Yes i had all the crappy side effects, but because i had read about them i was sure half of it was in my head as well as i expected to feel ill.
People seem to think that after a couple of weeks on the meds they will start to feel better again and ask why they feel worse and not better, well what do you expect when you are putting cit into your system, its obviously going to mess you around for a while, and by a while i mean months not weeks. You really really need to give this drug time to change your system and get used to you. Ive been on cit 6 months now and i can honestly say that its hardly had any noticable effects until the last month or so. People seem to want to give up on it too quickly rather than give the drug a fighting chance.
I also wonder why people get so anxious when a doctor puts your medication up, you have obviously gone to your doctor seeking help, and your doctor has precribed you what they feel is appriopriate...why question the mg they have given you when they are the professional not you. I started on 20mg and after a month i got put up for 40mg, so what it sounds like a high dose and the immediate dosage incread had lots of side effects, long term, its the best thing for you and if you want to query it then maybe you should have more faith in your doctor or change doctor....they really do know best.
So anyway....yeah thats my input! lol!
Good on you Kirst,for saying that,I just hope people don't give you a hard time for telling it how it is.....Take Care:flowers:
nomorepanic
22-04-10, 21:07
Most of the posts tell people that they will feel worse before they feel better and they need to give it many weeks to take effect so not sure which posts said otherwise.
bottleblond
22-04-10, 22:11
Kirsty
You may find that 'people read too much into thing on this site' (as you put it) because there are people out there who have much stronger issues than you do.
NMP is here to aid 'ALL' variations of anxiety and anxiety related conditions.
You have obviously not read all subject matters here or you would have realised that your input was rather negative to say the least.
NMP is a 'community' who support and gain support from members who have legitimate issues. We hope you will gain support too if you wish to recieve it.
Kind regards
Lisa
Kirsty
You may find that 'people read too much into thing on this site' (as you put it) because there are people out there who have much stronger issues than you do.
NMP is here to aid 'ALL' variations of anxiety and anxiety related conditions.
You have obviously not read all subject matters here or you would have realised that your input was rather negative to say the least.
NMP is a 'community' who support and gain support from members who have legitimate issues. We hope you will gain support too if you wish to recieve it.
Kind regards
Lisa
I agree Lisa, we're all on our own personal journeys, some with better doctors than others.
xMartian
Hi Kirst,I told you...lol you are not aloud to voice your views..lol...expect more:D
Veronica H
23-04-10, 00:40
:bighug1:KirstyElizibeth glad that meds have been the solution for you. I am lucky to have a very understanding Dr at last and he is really taking panic anxiety seriously and listening to, and even asking for :ohmy:feedback from his patients. I have a very low dose of Citalopram 10mg which keeps me out of depression. My Dr found however that although higher doses were effective for those still struggling with depression on 10mg, it actually made panic anxiety sufferers worse to put the dose higher than 10mg in most cases. He preferrred to offer low dose betablockers and keep Citalopram low. So there is not a universal cure all sadly. Some Drs give large doses of meds and tranquillisers while others monitor their use carefully from the off, as does mine. At my practice they will not supply any of these meds more than one repeat prescription without a review. I was also offered counselling and CBT.
I have a couple of 'recovery buddies' on this site and we have seen each other through some very hard times. I do not know where I would have been 2yrs ago when I had my breakdown if it had not been for the comfort, information and support I received here.
Veronicax
you just said it yourself, you got yourself into a far worse state than what was necassary. Other people will do exactly the same when they are in the position that you were in then. its not fair to question people doing the same thing you did but a few weeks/months prior to now.
I found Kirsty's post to be objective and to the point. I look forward to hearing more from you.
one of us would like it known that he disagrees with all of you.
There have been a number of people posting who seem to expect cit to have kicked in within a couple of week, and it can. I certainly felt better after such a period but my depression was mild.
Now as for the rest of you the way you go sometimes, I am seriously concerned about you. There are somewith multiple personna Martin, Lord High Sherrif has moved form church organist through classical pianist to be the Archbishop of Cantebury. Others have had it for my rat friend Reme, who has now been Rogered :-(
But the real point is the sense of community, no grandstanding, non-judgemental etc. Compared with the 'sane' world this is heaven at times.
EJ has a fair point, some do need to get a grip but others have more serious problems, who can be helped by those of us who have a grip.
Now back into the classroom children, playtime is over :)
kirstyelizabeth
23-04-10, 11:01
i didnt expect everyone to agree with my comments but why shouldnt i be objective and voice my opinions, everyone is entitled to do so and for all you know there could be a member on here that has just found my blunt talking more to the point than pussy footing around.
Most of the posts tell people that they will feel worse before they feel better and they need to give it many weeks to take effect so not sure which posts said otherwise.
Ive never said ,or read otherwise either ..All the side effects are listed on the leaflet inside the packets .All people do on here is post their own experiences and try to support each other .Drs dont have the time and a lot of the time they fob you off with just the perscription and nothing else .Thank god for this site ,Its helped thousands of people ..Sue
i didnt expect everyone to agree with my comments but why shouldnt i be objective and voice my opinions, everyone is entitled to do so and for all you know there could be a member on here that has just found my blunt talking more to the point than pussy footing around.
Hi KE
Of course - free speech - we love it on here!
And if I don't agree I will say so - but looks ok so far !
But we are all different in what works and doesn't, and also in our temperaments.
I expect we are a sensitive bunch by nature of our problems.
I'm for anything that helps us to end of the journey well and sane!
xMartian :hugs:
Kirsty,
I respect your views but the trouble is "expecting instant results" is often a measure of the severity of ones condition,and a desparation for things to change to ease the pain.So it does come across as insensitive to a degree.You are,of course,entitled to your view.But I would ask for a compassionate understanding of just how dark,how deep some sufferers feel their pain,and to me it is an understandable reaction to wish it would all disappear as soon as possible.many of us have a great dependance on our medication,myself included,and for some in this field of suffering,that is all they feel is available.I wish everyones pain on here would instantly disappear,including yours.
kind regards ASH
I have to admit that, when I'm over anxious, I much prefer a bit of "pussy-footing" around. I will have already imagined the worst possible scenario!! During those times I'm looking for reassurance on NMP and I avoid any posts that I feel may increase my anxiety levels.
When I'm feeling relatively okay, I can read up on the posts I've avoided and interpret them in a more rational way. And it's then that I try to offer back the reassurance that I've received from other people.
That's the way it is for me, and I accept that it's not going to be the same for everyone else.
Kirsty,
I respect your views but the trouble is "expecting instant results" is often a measure of the severity of ones condition,and a desparation for things to change to ease the pain.So it does come across as insensitive to a degree.You are,of course,entitled to your view.But I would ask for a compassionate understanding of just how dark,how deep some sufferers feel their pain,and to me it is an understandable reaction to wish it would all disappear as soon as possible.many of us have a great dependance on our medication,myself included,and for some in this field of suffering,that is all they feel is available.I wish everyones pain on here would instantly disappear,including yours.
kind regards ASH
Well said Ash65. Sensitivity is the key on this site, we all come on here for help or to help someone else, so KE when voicing your opinon think how someone else might interpret it before posting, this forum is not like other chat rooms and forums out there.
There are people here who do give up far too quickly on their med and we generally do advise people to stick it out, as you're absolutely right: there may be some immediate benefits, and it does also depend on the severity of your condition, but the full benefits generally take many weeks to set in. In the meantime, many people think that the side effects they're experiencing won't ever go, and that they'll always be feeling like they do. Also, there's no doubt in my mind that many antidepressants make you feel a lot worse in the beginning. This is why doctors are asked to monitor all patients in the first few weeks of therapy (something which sadly a lot of doctors don't do).
There are certain generalisations we can make but ultimately it is a very subjective experience and I think if we look at your post in a positive light, it's saying that we shouldn't be giving up too easily when starting drug treatments - which is something I think we encourage on this forum.
nomorepanic
23-04-10, 22:33
Hi Kirst,I told you...lol you are not aloud to voice your views..lol...expect more:D
Umm who said she wasn't????
I was not getting into an arguement I was stating facts about most posts on here not saying that Citalopram is a miracle cure :wacko:
bottleblond
23-04-10, 22:39
I just wanted to share my experience with everyone from reading various topics. I really think people read too much into things on this site and it makes them more anxious.
You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion but to judge the 'Whole' site on something you disagree with is quite wrong. NMP is a lifeline to thousands of poeple around the globe and we are very proud of that fact.
bottleblond
23-04-10, 22:40
Good on you Kirst,for saying that,I just hope people don't give you a hard time for telling it how it is.....Take Care:flowers:
Ronny you use NMP on a daily basis so god knows what your issue is.
I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is good to see different views/experiences on this site. However, to have the opinion that reading these forums makes people worse in some way is a sweeping statement. Yes I think that in some ways, in particular relating to anxiety, that other peoples' experiences may cause more anxiety in some people, but at the end of the day - there is a reason that people come to this forum and it it to get a first hand account of other peoples' experiences! If that causes more anxiety in some people than that is down to them to deal with and decide whether it does them any good to take part in these discussions. As far as I am concerned this site has helped me massively over the past few months and it certainly doesn't make me more anxious by reading about other people's experiences,but gives me comfort to know other people experience the same as myself
Just a note - Stating something in the first person is NOT an objective viewpoint. It's purely subjective hence our reason for the saying: you're entitled to your opinion.
If you were a doctor KE, who had been studying a number of patients and then basing your opinions on what you'd observed, that then would be an objective opinion. You have based your opinion on what you've experienced and as we all, know everybody is different.
Cheers
Rich
Lisa,I do not have an issue with this site.i just think that we are all entitled to our point of view.I come on here to join in on the threads that cheer me up.But I do think some can say things,and others cannot.
Ronny xx
Just a note - Stating something in the first person is NOT an objective viewpoint. It's purely subjective hence our reason for the saying: you're entitled to your opinion.
If you were a doctor KE, who had been studying a number of patients and then basing your opinions on what you'd observed, that then would be an objective opinion. You have based your opinion on what you've experienced and as we all, know everybody is different.
Cheers
Rich
Good point! Shall we start running randomized controlled trials on anxiety using nopanic members. I did a module on medical statistics with the Open University last year which was quite an eye opener into how statisticans work in the medical field.
kirstyelizabeth
24-04-10, 09:55
wow this really did start a bit of a debate didnt it! Thanks to those that pm'd me agreeing with what i said!
Kirsy I think most people WILL agree about the medication comment .Especially when they have been successful themselves in taking it .The side effects like I said are written in the leaflet and it states how likely it is to suffer with each one .You remarked in your previous posts when you were starting on the Cit how THIS SITE HAD HELPED YOU .So I I really dont understand why now you are saying it makes people more anxious .Some people will always get more anxious reading what may or may not happen.But surely its better to know ,if it does happen to give you side effects ,there are people on here who will understand and support you ,and ressure you that its perfectly normal to be experiencing certain thing .The not knowing is even more frightening and would ,and has made people give up taking their medication ,or even worse . You were given support and was grateful at the time .So I really dont get why your post seems so be so negative about this Forum .Maybe it s the way you have worded it ? T/c Sue
Hi there
You sound like you went through a struggle and came out the other side and that is fantastic news.. but anxiety and depression can occur for many various reasons and at varying levels..
People know that they are going to get negative results and when they are feeling sometimes almost suicidal that tends to make them more fearful as they are already at a point where it has got too much for them..alternatively they get themselves to a point where the thought of making their condition worse for a good space of time feels like a huge step. Of course they like you want to find a solution but it if they were not anxious and already going through something that is sometimes terrifying for them they would not need that support in the first place.
Experts are experts in medication and causes of symptoms but not necessarily unless they have gone through it will they have the insight to be able to understand what others are going through and that is why it is important to talk to others... I'm sure we all have knowledge of subjects we have never experienced.. and this is often what it is like for doctors and the mental health teams at hospitals.. People here are experiencing the symptoms and their effects and therefore will always have a better understanding..
Many symptoms may seem ridiculous to doctors or even people that have never gone through it but here there is someone who will let others see that they are not alone, I don't think that NMP is scare mongering, it is down to the individual to take the bits they relate to and understand or accept.. as you would in anything you do in life.. it is about support and being there for others even if you cannot relate to all they are going through yourself because they have been there to do the same for you..
You are entitled to your opinions of course you are ... but all I would say is that .. the worse type of non smoker is the ex smoker.. don't feel so hard towards the boots you once walked in..
The best of luck to you truly and lets hope you are on that journey forwards now x
kirstyelizabeth
25-04-10, 10:20
As for the comment on me saying this site helped me when I first joined here... It wasn't until so done pointed out thT the site was making me more paranoid ofmy side effects that I realised they were right. Once I stopped coming o. The site regularly I realised that Reading up on it less and reading all the depressing stuff on here actually brought me down and by walking away from what I was Reading it gave me time to focus on me and not on other peoples experiences and problems
ladybird64
25-04-10, 12:16
Hi :)
Just thought I would add my tuppence worth to this interesting thread.
To a degree I understand your point about certain scenarios making you feel worse but I can't understand why you would continue to come back and read these depressing posts if they made you feel worse?
They obviously did as you have said that really you weren't helped at all by anything you have read, I find that a real shame.
We each have the choice to stay here if we feel it helps or stay away if it doesn't, nobody forces anybody's arm up their back to read anything.
Many of us do post at first about our problems as it is a release and we often get constructive advice, I hope that I can pay back some of that kindness shown by trying to help others..it's just the nature of this forum.
Of course there are other forums around where you you won't find half the advice given here (plus information on particular topics) and you will be expected to dip into your pocket to find the "cure"..again that is a personal choice.
Regarding Citalopram, I have steadfastly refused to take any medication for anxiety and phobia's for more than twenty years and was in fact prescribed Cit for a severe bout of depression.
You ask "what do people expect when they put Cit in ther system", well, I think that many people, particularly those who may have been feeling suicidal are hoping that they will wake up in the morning and feel that they actually want to live.
As for the side -effects, I don't suffer from HA so expected some side effects and were ok with them but can understand how absolutely terrifying it must be when someone feels so bad and then they realise that they may have to feel even worse before they get better.
I'm glad you are doing well and I think that is what most people here want for each other. What you call pussy footing around, I call compassion but then again, we are all different and I'm glad that is the case.
I am improving greatly now, partially due to the Citalopram but in particular due to certain posts I have read on this forum I now feel more optimistic than I have done for years and have accomplished more than I have done in years.
So, in a nutshell NMP is working for me, I'm sorry it didnt for you but maybe don't be so tough on others who are still struggling.
Perhaps you could share your story of how you have recovered and it may be inspirational for others. :)
Downsinthenorth
25-04-10, 13:03
There are days when I can't read most of the posts, purely because I'm already feeling so terrible. When that happens, I tend to check out only the "positive" forums like "Success Stories", "Top Tips" or "Panic Pause/Humour". I think that the people responsible for setting up and maintaining this site, have have probably organised the forums the way they have, to make it easier for us to be selective about the types of posts we choose to read.
As far as taking medication is concerned, I think only the person prescribed it can make the ultimate decision whether they stop or carry on, and because we all react differently, it is almost impossible to anyone, even a professional, to predict this. This is probably why doctor's are so bloody vague when you ask them how long it will take before the meds start to kick in (or what the side-effects are).
In my childhood and young adulthood, I'd experienced my mother's addiction and other problems associated with her readiness to take a cocktail of drugs prescribed to her for all her ailments (real and imagined). Understandably, I am absolutely terrified to take anything (even painkillers), and only take Prozac because I inevitably plummet into a severe depression if I stop. So I understand why some people are petrified of taking medication, and appreciate how frightening the initial (hopefully) physical and mental side-effects can be.
It's great that we CAN discuss all this openly, but I think it's even more important to err on the side of extreme sensitivity when doing so, because most people are already suffering, and visit this site for emotional support, not just advice. The great thing is that pretty much everybody (as far as I have noticed) that comes here IS kind, sensitive and supportive. I wish more people were like this in the real world.
Sorry for the long, rambling post.
the worse type of non smoker is the ex smoker.. don't feel so hard towards the boots you once walked in..
I love this site for it's whit and humour, expecially mine of course, and how we are all so different.
So was gonna say let's not fall out.
But then Sharon started picking on me.
I am an ex smoker, so clearly one of the worst sort.
So I demand a written apology, and some money in a brown paper bag left above seat 51A in first class on the 7:28 Nottingham to London train tomorrow. Depending on how much money I find I *may* shut up about the smoking comment in time.
And Jo - she referred to boots - don't let her get away with it LOL
Mind you I once walked in a boots - far too expensive though - Shazzer have you tried superdrug, same stuff half the price ??
Or the pound shop if you don't mind out of date stuff.
Phew I feel better getting that off my chest.
Off to dive for cover....... and hoping no one takes me seriously !!!!!!!!
xMartian the ____________ fill in your own blank
Martin!!! Superdrug might be cheaper but you dont get knowlegable staff in there....we have alot of training and hope that we attract a different type of customer!!! What are you like???
Hm, I think I should share my tuppence as well, oo-er etc. ;)
I've spent nearly 14 months working on the citalopram survival guide - which is based on personal experience as well as weeks of research - and in that time my whole view of the world and my place within it has changed beyond belief.
I've spoken to people who have suffered terribly while adapting to SSRIs and other medications. My best friend had very serious downers as well as sleepless nights and bouts of bad temper while adapting to Prozac. I myself went through hell in the first 2 weeks of citalopram. Yes, some of this was down to anxiety, some of it was psychosomatic (caused by my belief that I would experience some side effects), but the rest was the citalopram.
I can fully understand why some people who are in a terrible state of suffering, who have no support network and cannot see any hope for themselves, would give up on the medication so quickly. I'm not saying that quitting a medication is a sensible thing to do, I'm just stating why people do it.
Our job is to guide and support these people through such times.
I never, ever wanted to go through the side-effect hell again. So even though 20mg was clearly not strong enough for me, it was nine months before I was ready to finally say, "Okay then, yeah, let's do it." And I increased my dose, something which fear had kept me from doing, because I felt that I was ready to face hell one more time.
Fortunately, increasing my dose did not have any unpleasant effects except for increased tiredness. But I didn't expect the transition to be as easy as that. Neither do the other people who are terrified of increasing their dose.
When people contact me about the survival guide, and I can assure you I've had PMs probably numbering into the hundreds about it, the MOST common things are their fear of either starting to take it, or fear of increasing their dose in case their horrible suffering starts again.
Six weeks of side effects is a very, very long time to someone who is in that position.
Finally, while I agree with the spirit of this statement:
I also wonder why people get so anxious when a doctor puts your medication up, you have obviously gone to your doctor seeking help, and your doctor has precribed you what they feel is appriopriate...why question the mg they have given you when they are the professional not you.
...I disagree with it when you present it as a statement of fact. Human beings are not Cylons. We don't obey the words of supposed superiors without question. We think and feel and we have wants and needs that must be met. In my experience, and from a lot of things I hear from fellow sufferers, some doctors would have difficulty telling their bottoms from a hole in the ground. They do not meet any of our wants and needs, and they seem indifferent to our feelings or fears. They seem to want to give us a medication and get rid of us.
I had to use my entire brainpower to coerce my doctor into increasing my dose. I knew I needed the increase. He was highly resistant to the idea. In short, he knew bugger all about what would work for me and he had no idea what to do about anxiety and depression. In my first consultation he actually sat back and asked me what I wanted him to do!
If you managed to make it through that lot, my point is this: everyone has a right to speak their mind, but no-one should expect everyone else to take it as gospel.
Martin!!! Superdrug might be cheaper but you dont get knowlegable staff in there....we have alot of training and hope that we attract a different type of customer!!! What are you like???
Made ya smile though !!!!!!!
Hi Martbarr...
Oops sorry ...hang head in shame and slap wrist for upsetting you..
I am a smoker ... soon to be ex.. so I will let you know how I get on with the theory.. of the worse being the ex smokers..but they usually are.. oops say that really quietly sharon...hee hee.
Anyways if I have upset any of you fearsome ex smokers ... Sorrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyy ..Martbarr I promise my bottom lip is well and truly bruised and sore now from all that tripping over it I've done...
((hugs))
LOL!!! This site just cracks me up!!! Jo.xx
Veronica H
28-04-10, 10:48
"As for the comment on me saying this site helped me when I first joined here... It wasn't until so done pointed out thT the site was making me more paranoid ofmy side effects that I realised they were right. Once I stopped coming o. The site regularly I realised that Reading up on it less and reading all the depressing stuff on here actually brought me down and by walking away from what I was Reading it gave me time to focus on me and not on other peoples experiences and problems" Your approach has a 'mean' feel about it. What is your message? Do you know what Altruism is?
Veronicax
yep I know what it means,and I know kirsty cares about others,and as far as being mean Hello.......Kirsty don't stop posting.....Take Care
Ronny:hugs:
Veronica H
28-04-10, 15:08
:ohmy:Are you implying that I am being mean in voicing my opinion Ronny? I didn't ask you any questions. I thought free speach was allowed? I know what you mean now when you said that you felt that some people were allowed to voice their opinions and others were not. I think maybe Kirsty should be allowed the last word if she wants that, and then maybe Nic could close this as the last thing I want is to give people more reasons to fall out... including us.:flowers:
Veronicax
:ohmy:Are you implying that I am being mean in voicing my opinion Ronny? I didn't ask you any questions. I thought free speach was allowed? I know what you mean now when you said that you felt that some people were allowed to voice their opinions and others were not. I think maybe Kirsty should be allowed the last word if she wants that, and then maybe Nic could close this as the last thing I want is to give people more reasons to fall out... including us.:flowers:
Veronicax
"Never wear anything that panics the cat"
P. J. O'Rourke
Aggggh you are wearing purple trainers
This cat is having a panic attack...........
Veronica H
28-04-10, 15:54
:roflmao::bighug1:
Veronicax
Hi Veronica.....Just saying it how it is,I don't think it is anything to have a falling out over.......crikey just a comment....Have a great day.
Rhonda
Hello,
I have seen this thread about for the last few days and have really just got up the nerve to write on here. I am not ashamed to say that I felt quite annoyed only because of the suggestive posts. When I came onto this site I was in the worst way. I was close to giving up, and I really didn't know which way to turn. Firstly we are lucky that such a site exists, people can post, within restrictions of course, what we think and feel and sadly it will effect some readers in a negative way. All I can do is give my experience, I have read in the past posts that have really gotten to me however I do not hold this site responsible but me for continuing to read. I have since learnt my lesson and now read positive posts like success stories and the pet section and my own threads. There are no wardens that restrict what we can see on here and it is our own responsibility what we read. I feel bad for you that you suffered from reading stories on here but at the end of the day it was your choice to read them and you did learn something at the end of it all, right?
Plus I fell into the pitfall of wishing it would all go away with just one tablet, this may sound silly but I did, I was feeling so low and really in the pits that I just wanted it all to go away and to be happy again. When I didn't it was this site that helped me through, Jo, Paul, Myra, Andrew, Joanna, Smudger and lots more helped me through when I was in a place where it could have been potentially dangerous to myself. I think what ALL of these lovely people are saying that you are fully entitled to your opinions as is everyone on this site and there lies the beauty.It is a truthful forum where we can speak to people with similar problems and learn from others and in turn give our advice. I truly do understand where you are coming from and that coming on here on a very bad day can worsen our feelings but at the end of the day we all have days like this and we have a choice whether to come on or not.
More power to you if you feel you can do without this forum because of the few "touchy" posts (sorry I didn't know how to word it) but there are some of us who gain very much from it and feel it is our support system when we don't have loving families and friends to turn to. I think Kirsty you are a lovely person who cares and can give a lot but if you feel it isn't for you then thats fair but please don't begrudge those of us who really need this forum in our "dark times".
Thanks and for all please find peace with whatever it is you are suffering from because at the end of the day we are all sufffering in one way or another and all we want is for someone to care.
Laura xxxxx:)
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