View Full Version : New Take on How Anti-Depressants Really Work
I wonder if anyone has checked out this news about what happens to the brain during a depression, and what anti-depressants really do to correct this?
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2008/07/06/head_fake
http://www.johnshopkinshealthalerts.com/reports/depression_anxiety/851-1.html
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199903/depression-beyond-serotonin
After being told I had a chemical imbalance in my brain, and an anti-depressant would correct that balance, this new research is an eye-opener for me. Apparently depression/anxiety disorders are a neurodegenerative disorder akin to alzheimer's, where neurons in the brain start to die off. And anti-depressants, while they do have an effect on the mood neurotransmitters in the brain (serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine), their actual effect in making a person feeling better is by stimulating the GROWTH OF NEW NEURONS (neurogenesis). Which explains why there is such a delay between taking your first dose of an anti-depressant which immediately raises your levels of serotonin (or norepinephrine and dopamine) in the brain, and the 4-6 weeks (sometimes sooner, or longer) it takes to actually feel better (it takes time to grow new neurons, but no time at all to raise levels of a neurotransmitter in the brain.)
Interesting. Any thoughts?
This is really interesting. I have done a lot of research on depression and other mental afflictions, and I have been wondering for a long time if there is actual physical damage which either leads to or is caused by depression.
It has always seemed like a completely effective cure for depression would be some kind of brain surgery. Obviously that is beyond our technology and scientific understanding at the moment. But like a game of X-COM, technology moves along, and there is no doubt that one day we will develop a method of repairing or rewiring the brain.
I think that stem cells will be the key to a lot of "miracle" cures over the next century or more. The whole ethics and morality of stem cell research needs to be resolved. If they ever ban stem cell research then in the words of Doctor Who, it would be a disaster for humankind.
Yes I do realise what a geek I sound! :D
Don't worry, I'm a geek too.
We have come a long way in the treatment of mental disorders, but obviously have a lot to learn about the brain, and how it works; how these disorders come about, and how they can be corrected.
Since anti-depressants first came around in the 50's with the tricyclic anti-depressants like imipramine, and then later MAOI's, then the landmark move to SSRI's with Prozac, we didn't really know what they did. We knew the actions they had on the brain (more serotonin, etc.), but didn't know how these actions helped depression because depression was/is such a mystery in itself. We just knew that when you take pill A, it will help a certain number of people get better in a certain amount of time (and this is if you can hang on long enough, and tolerate the side effects), without actually knowing why or how.
In addition to stem cell research into practical applications for correcting brain disorders, more research should go into looking into drug therapies that directly stimulate the growth/healing of neurons, instead of the round-about way today's anti-depressants go about it, so that maybe people would feel relief much sooner in treatment, than the 4-6 weeks (or longer) it takes an SSRI to work its magic, without the host of bothersome side-effects that come with it.
Anti-depressants work surprisingly well for some people (given that a person finds and is prescribed the right one for them). I've found this with Citalopram, after going through Mirtazipine, Sertraline, Prozac, and Venlafaxine to get to this point, 4-5 years down the road. In this sense, the treatment of depression is a very messy, hit-and-miss thing, which is really unfortunate. My other wish is that at some point in the future, if we are still using traditional anti-depressants to treat these disorders, science is able to do testing to see what particular anti-depressant will have the best effect on this or that person, to avoid all the trial and error, "try this for a couple months, and if it doesn't work try that for a couple months", type of treatment we are all familiar with.
Well if you look into medical research that has been done into the antidepressant effects of ketamine, they find that a single dose can completely suppress the effects of severe, treatment-resistant depression for between one and two weeks. This drug takes effect within several hours instead of weeks. Unfortunately, the side effects of ketamine use are so serious you'd have to be out of your mind to try it.
What they found is that depression appears to have a biological trail, or a river, leading towards it (that's not exactly how it is but it serves as a useful metaphor). Conventional antidepressants come in right at the beginning of this river and gradually make their way downstream. This accounts for the fact that they can take so long to have any positive effect.
Ketamine seems to directly target actual biological "causes" of depression. In other words it comes in where the river meets the sea; it doesn't have to journey along the river over a period of time, unlike SSRIs etc, so...
1: There is no delayed reaction.
2: Ketamine seems to be a more effective antidepressant than SSRIs etc (bearing in mind just a single dose has a huge impact on symptoms of depression).
3: Ketamine research has apparently identified a biological cause for depression which had not been identified previously.
Research is already underway to find something that will work like ketamine, but will not present a threat to human sanity (the more sinister side effects of ketamine are legendary).
The answers are coming.
Really interesting debate. I've just read all your comments about anti-depressants, its good to hear the science behind the drug rather than the magic side that we are all concerned about.
The brain cells dying away increase the levels of depression is really interesting, is this caused by a physiological or a psychological reaction of the way we live our lives. Not sure, have either have you any insight into these causes? Could it be that it is part of our individual DNA that we are susceptible/prone to depression, are we born with it? (I worry for my son, I naturally don't want him to suffer the same as me, if not born with it what do we change?).
Interested to know what you think?
A pondering Lion, mmmmmm!
LK
All I know for certain at the moment is, when my anxiety and depression were at their worst, I felt like something was physically wrong with me - stomach, chest, brain. As far as I know, and I haven't researched this btw, brain cells are dying and being replaced all the time, so if we could find a way to strengthen them or rapidly create new ones, that would be a doomsday weapon in the war against brain damage, degeneration caused by age, mental illness etc.
Ever notice how a shock, such as walking down a flight of stairs, thinking there is another step to go before the last, and you land your foot down hard. Your receive a shock to your system, you become instantly aware of being in the moment, of your body, and your physical sensations? It's a jolt, and you feel really alive for a brief moment.
Then have you noticed that when you have a lot of new stuff to do in your life: some new crisis to solve, a new project to tackle, or when your partner comes down with a sickness (something as simple as a cold), and sometimes it snaps you out a depression for a moment, to go outside yourself and deal with that situation, tend to that project, or help this person?
And then, ever notice when your life seems perfect, you are in a routine of living, set days you go to work (work that you know like the back of your hand), set things you do after work? For me, depression has generally crept in when everything in my life was good, and just ticking along. Maybe this is because this is sort of like living life in auto-pilot mode, there's not much to stimulate the brain/mind with new ideas, experiences, etc, and so the brain thinks its okay to start shutting itself off or slow down, to start turning off parts that aren't used much anymore, like a computer going into hibernation mode. And from there, our neurons don't get excited, or stimulated as much, and start to wither and die ... until a new crisis presents itself.
If depression, and other such brain disorders are neuro-degenerative disorders (again, like alzheimers) then it would make sense that stimulation of these neurons through activity, and learning new ideas, and doing things differently, out of the routine auto-pilot mode (something as simple as taking a different route when driving to work) will keep the brain active, and young, and less prone to degeneration, and therefore less prone to depression/anxiety.
Well, I was carrying 200kg of publicity stuff in my car today, took a sharp corner and the back end of my car came round - then when I reached the next junction I put my foot on the brakes and nothing happened because my car was much heavier than normal - I think we can safely say those qualified as what British motorsport commentators used to call "focussing moments"!
In contrast to your experiences mate, my anxiety and depression kick in when I have either got nothing going on, or my life has completely gone to b*llocks. I come alive when I am busy. Staying active and keeping busy made a massive contribution in the early days of my recovery. I was a wreck when I stayed at home.
On the other hand a routine gets stale. We're designed to be doing things - exploring, being outdoors, living life. Routine is very reassuring but it needs to be broken from time to time. God, or aliens, or an unknown creative force did not design us to sit in an office processing loan applications all day!
This is just one reason why depression has been so hard to fight. It is different for every people. My own experiences are in parallel with Lion King's, but opposite to yours. Same disease, different perspective.
Hi All
I haven't read the articles because from reading just your post my HA has kicked into overdrive !
I don't think I'll read the articles as it may send me off but am I to believe that my depression was caused by my neurons DYING ?!?!?
Oh my !
I think our experiences are actually similar: routine bad, change/activity good. I think what I was trying to say is when our lives our ticking along in a routine, then become more likely to fall into a depression. And, on the other extreme, when our life gets so messed up, and we feel like problems our spiraling out of control we also become more likely to fall into a depression (or, in this case, anxiety precipitating into depression).
The first instance is caused by stagnation, and lack of change. The latter by overload, and stress. Both lead to disorder, and depression.
The catch-22 is that when we are depressed we rarely have the energy or inclination to make change, or exercise, or do things that stimulate the mind. This is where anti-depressants come in, to give us that boost (when they do work), to start looking at living life in a new way, to prevent relapse.
@ Bluebelle
I found the articles to be comforting in a way, rather than distressing. It makes me feel better about taking an anti-depressant to have as much information as possible about how it is really affecting my head. And gives me new hope to have a better idea about what depression/anxiety is causing in the brain or is caused by. (Still, the question of the chicken or the egg coming first seems to still be present: Did depression cause the neurons to wither/die, or did the neurons withering/dying cause the depression?)
Hi All
I haven't read the articles because from reading just your post my HA has kicked into overdrive !
I don't think I'll read the articles as it may send me off but am I to believe that my depression was caused by my neurons DYING ?!?!?
Oh my !
Cells in our body are constantly dying and being reborn - that is a natural fact and is an entirely normal process of life. Brain cells are exactly the same. They can be destroyed, they can die naturally, and we constantly replace them if I understand it directly. The human brain has 300 terabytes of storage space -- I doubt we will miss the occasional kilobyte (what is a grain of sand compared to the moon?) :)
Jchild - I think I read your post wrong, sorry :shades:
The more we actually dig into the whole thing, the more I feel like we are uncovering the wider picture, one pixel at a time. The chicken and the egg thing used to seem like the holy grail of answers but I now believe based on research and personal experience that for some people, the chicken came first; for others, the egg.
This has implications for how we explore the illness and how, in the end, someone will develop a final cure.
It's a bit like the TV show Lost. The further along we go, the more mysteries we uncover, the more bizarre things get and the more players get involved.
Unlike Lost, depression does have a solution, it does have a meaning, and there is a clear and definite progression towards the answer.
It's a bit like the TV show Lost. The further along we go, the more mysteries we uncover, the more bizarre things get and the more players get involved.
Unlike Lost, depression does have a solution, it does have a meaning, and there is a clear and definite progression towards the answer.
Nicely put.
Thank you. I may be slightly bitter about the plot disaster Lost is and has always been... hard to believe there are people still genuinely devoted to it. If you want weirdness, religion, incredible acting and a cast of properly interesting people, try the new version of Battlestar Galactica and its prequel, Caprica. Both of these bury Lost.
jchild10 and PsychoPoet
Thank you both very much. Your perspectives on the "dying" really calmed me down.
jchild10 you are right it is a chicken and the egg thing and PsychoPoet you are comfort to my soul saying that our cells die and regenerate.
Thank you so much- you've saved me from another night of anxiety and stress !
Cells in our body are constantly dying and being reborn - that is a natural fact and is an entirely normal process of life. Brain cells are exactly the same. They can be destroyed, they can die naturally, and we constantly replace them if I understand it directly. The human brain has 300 terabytes of storage space -- I doubt we will miss the occasional kilobyte (what is a grain of sand compared to the moon?)
Brain cells are different from normal cell tissue, they do not reproduce at the same rate as other tissue. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurogenesis. It's only been recently established (1992) that new cell growth occurs in adulthood and it doesn't occur in the same way that a cut finger grows news cells in situ to repair the cut. New cells appear in one area and then migrate into other areas of the brain.
The article doe have interesting links to stress handling and its link to exercise, implying that exercise may increase the number of newly created neurons.
I love this thread :yesyes:
Bluebelle - Thanks! Look at it this way: life was created by some unknown force, maybe god, maybe aliens, maybe a wonderful accident like the big bang. Whatever the cause, things have evolved along an extremely intelligent theme of logic. You've got to remember that the human body was designed to live. Everything was designed to live: planets, stars, humans, insects, bacteria. We all have our natural lifespan (which in the case of humans can be extended by technology and medicine) because we were designed that way.
If you bear that in mind, how can death be so terrible? Death was designed to be a part of the natural order of things. It's not a lurking threat out to get us: it's a companion who shares our journey, and leads us to whatever comes next once our time is over. It is something that is supposed to be. Anxiety or depression about death is a waste of life. Whatever happens once we die, there is life before death.
However we came to be here on this ball of soil, water and Elvis impersonators we call Earth (or Terra if you want to sound flashy), the ability to not only live life, but to appreciate it and to enjoy it, to experience love and laughter -- how can that not be the greatest gift?
So whatever happens to our neurons - and I thank Oneofus for the input, as that was something I never knew - I would gladly pay a few neurons for each day I get to spend with my family.
Okay, here's a newer article, originally written up in February of this year, about the MIF molecule, and its important role in neurogenesis and how it might "change we the way we treat depression."
http://www.news-medical.net/news/20100412/MIF-molecule-plays-crucial-role-in-neurogenesis.aspx
That's a good article. There has got to be a big change in the way medication fights depression. Serotonin, melatonin etc are just part of the problem -- otherwise SSRIs etc would work for everyone.
Thing is though, sometimes life just gets you down, and it doesn't matter what you do or how many new brain cells are being spawned, you are going to feel like crap. I've had a very bad few days cos of life events rather than illness, and citalopram etc just do not help with them.
Sorry to hear you've been having a rough few days.
I've been reading some Mindfulness Cognitive Behavioral Therapy literature recently, as part of trying to understand what's really going on when I get low. Basically combines Eastern mindfulness and meditation with traditional CBT (not surprisingly, it is known as MCBT). Interesting stuff. Each time we fall into a depression, it reinforces that connection in our brain, so that even afterwards (after we have come out of a depression) when we experience a little dip in mood, a bit of sadness, we tend to over-react to it in our minds, and this explains somewhat why there is such a high relapse rate for major depression. We unconsciously apply all the previous thought patterns, behaviors, feelings of a deep depression to something unpleasant that happens to us (a minor set-back, say), much more than is needed, and that can sometimes put us right back into a downward spiral.
Quotes from "The Mindful Way Through Depression":
"Depression forges a connection in the brain between sad mood and negative thoughts, so that even normal sadness can reawaken major negative thoughts... It doesn't require a traumatic loss for those of us who are vulnerable to plunge down into the spiral again... this connection becomes so ingrained that sometimes the negative thoughts that lead to depression can be triggered by sadness so fleeting or minimal that a person experiencing it is hardly aware of it."
"At the earliest stages in which a mood starts to spiral downward, it is not the mood that does the damage, but how we react to it... Our habitual efforts to extricate ourselves , far from freeing us, actually keeps us locked in the pain we're trying to escape."
I can definitely see how I fall into this trap myself. Receiving a student loan bill that I've forgot to pay, and over-reacting to it, and feeling all the old feelings of deep pain from previous depressions start to take hold, and take me even lower. All because of a bill that shouldn't deserve such a far-reaching pain response.
But then depression and anxiety is a normal part of life. If we didn't get anxious, and have a fight-or-flight response when we saw a tiger approaching, we wouldn't run away, and end up being that tiger's dinner. The human race would not be here today if we didn't get anxiety when we see/experience bad things. Another point the book makes is that our brains don't differentiate between a tiger that we see and the negative thoughts in our head. So we can get caught up in anxiety/worry patterns in our minds, when there is actually no direct, real threat there. (Or, the threat was there, but but our minds perpetuate the threat with negative thoughts long after the threat has left).
Sorry to hear you've been having a rough few days.
Not as sorry as I am mate :D
Your post reminds me of a friend who mentioned Mindfulness to me the other day. I've been meaning to ask her but I keep forgetting to send a text. She said Mindfulness has made a big difference to her. So I'll be checking this out.
As for your post in general, it is very illuminating, and I agree in full. Depression and anxiety thrive on mental association. You see this or you do that, it strikes a chord and suddenly you're on a one-way taxi ride to "s**t happens city".
Another factor is hypersensitivity. This was something I'd worked out for myself, and when I got hold of the Claire Weeks mp3s she mentions it as a major factor in our kind of illness.
Basically hypersensitivity is when we are constantly alert to and monitoring for our own thoughts and feelings, and it's also when we are pushed so far to the brink that even small problems hit us in the face like a brick in a sock.
There is definitely a pattern emerging here -- there is a secret to depression and other mental health issues that we are solving one part at a time -- but everyone, that's us, the research agencies, doctors, sufferers, survivors -- are each uncovering different pieces. They're mostly meaningless on their own -- if we could somehow put them all together someone could have that eureka moment.
I keep forgetting most people on this site will be 8 hours ahead of me here in California (though I was born in England, I moved to the States with my folks when I was seven or eight) so while it is four o'clock my time, it's midnight there. So I'll wait for a response tomorrow.
All of this, what we are talking about, hypersensitivity, rumination, dwelling on our problems when we are in the thick of it, over-reacting to our moods, etc. seem to all stem from fear. Fear of falling right back into a deep, dark depression that we can never pull ourselves out of. And so we are always on the lookout for bad thoughts, situations that can plunge us back there, not realizing this very type of vigilance, and fear-based thinking is the very thing that will most certainly land us back there. Counter-intuitive.
We as humans are great problem solvers. It's what keeps us going as a species. But depression and anxiety is something we can't solve with our thinking minds. No matter how much we turn it over in our heads, we won't come to a satisfactory answer, because it can't be solved in a logical way like most everything else can be. And this is the trap: the thinking is reinforcing our negative thoughts, digging us deeper into the hole.
We tend to shy away from, and push away negative stuff that happens to us, only wanting to feel and experience the good. I've read that actually feeling the bad, sitting with the feelings of crap (not dwelling on it, ruminating) but just accepting it as it is, without any judgements on it or ourselves, as something that isn't terrible, can help these feelings pass more easily. Our resistances, and fighting stances towards bad feelings only help to keep them around for longer. I guess the trick is to be able to be with these bad feelings when we have them WITHOUT letting them overtake us, and pull us under.
I only have a few minutes so can't really contribute to this thread but:
Reading this thread makes me realise this forum is such a great place for people struggling with anxiety and depression. What on earth did we do before we had the internet?
Back in the late 80s when I was 18 I had a really bad episode of depression. My overall feeling was of being different and alone. Access to a forum like this would have made a huge difference to me.
Great thread by the way. I absolutely love the idea of neurogenisis. I'm sure that my current IQ is significantly higher than when I was depressed - because my brain is running more normally. I wonder though if it is not the number of neurons that increases, but that new connections grow between them? The current theory seems to be that SSRIs increase the strength of the signals (hence the name).
Personally I think Cit is doing something to suppress whichever centres of the brain produce stress hormones, since it was peace and calmness that I experienced first, rather than elevated mood. I know that the literature says it targets serotonin quite specifically, but I wonder. Generally science does not have a very clear idea of how the brain creates the subjective experience of mind. I think the current idea of how SSRIs work is theoretical - is serotonin re-uptake inhibition really proven?
I agree, Tiger. What would we do without all the avenues of support now available to us, be it in the form of online forums, group therapies, individual therapies, self-help books, medications, etc. The more we become aware of it, the more we talk about this stuff, the more research is done about it, then the better it is accepted, the better it is tackled as a serious problem, and so forth.
Is it just me or do depression and other mood disorders seem to be more prevalent today than ever. Is it just because we are more free in talking about it today, where there is less of a stigma attached to it? Or is it also because doctors are quicker to label someone as depressed than before?
I think it is a combination of reviving dying neurons, making news ones, and, as you say, rebuilding the connections between them (mainly in the hippocampal region of the brain). The boost in serotonin (or/and other neurotransmitters) seems to be the round-about way to encourage/stimulate this change in the brain. That is, the boost in serotonin (or/and others) happens almost immediately upon taking the first dose of this or that medication, but is not the direct cause in making us feeling better. We've known that various medications work (for some), but not until recently do we find out what they are actually doing that works. We assumed it was the changes in neurotransmitters that helped to directly ease depression because the medication does change the levels of neurotransmitters in the brain, but there's more going here.
Can't really get into this now as I'm busy with summat but I will say that depression is probably more prevalent mainly due to more accurate reporting. People are far more aware of things these days. And there is the perception that everything fits into someone's view of a "disorder" these days.
On the other hand today's world is one of fear and violence -- mostly caused by the media TBH. In sociology, we studied the American media as an example of control through fear: supposedly (having never been to America or watched American telly myself) the news over there interrupts programmes on a frequent basis to bring "live" car chases and things like that, reinforcing the idea that this stuff happens everywhere all the time, when in fact there are less than a handful of such events happening among a population of 150 million (nearly 3 times the UK's population). They also supposedly show dead bodies from murder scenes, suicides etc. I would need JChild to verify that though.
When you look at things from a logical and objective perspective the world is just not as bad as people think. Where I live you can walk around and not be at risk of violence. When I went to stay with my ex in France, we were walking around the streets at 1.30am taking photos of the Christmas lights and everyone left us alone. In fact a drunk bunch of students wished us a good-natured happy new year. How does that fit in with the media's view of violence, intolerance and crime?
guitarpants
01-05-10, 21:15
On the other hand today's world is one of fear and violence -- mostly caused by the media TBH. In sociology, we studied the American media as an example of control through fear: supposedly (having never been to America or watched American telly myself) the news over there interrupts programmes on a frequent basis to bring "live" car chases and things like that, reinforcing the idea that this stuff happens everywhere all the time, when in fact there are less than a handful of such events happening among a population of 150 million (nearly 3 times the UK's population). They also supposedly show dead bodies from murder scenes, suicides etc. I would need JChild to verify that though.
I think stuff like this is a misconception for those who live outside the US. The media is an enormous problem, I can't agree more, but you will never see dead bodies or anything like that on the news. It's unethical and may even be illegal. The media really is a circus though. It's sad and pathetic, but a lot of people love it. So I think there is more to be said for human nature really and why people enjoy this sort of thing. Television is rarely interrupted by news reports unless it's something of a dire nature like a natural disaster or what not. However, over the past decade or so I've seen more and more meaningless news. Crap I couldn't care less about. The united states is not a hostile, violent place. It's not that much different from anywhere else. With that said though, it's obvious that there are certain parts of any city here that you wouldn't want to be walking down at night.
Anyway, this is a great thread that I've been following. I don't want to hijack it or divert the flow of it.
@NinjaXero
You definitely aren't hijacking or diverting the flow. All comments welcome, keep them coming.
I agree with both of the previous comments that the media blow a lot of this out of proportion to what is really happening.
I used to live in the city (San Francisco) for several years, and there are definitely places there you would not be walking around at night, but then places that are fine. I think this is typical of all places, the world over. Though city-life seems to be a lot more individualistic, less neighborly (you wouldn't greet strangers on the street). And where I live now, given that it quite remote, and outside of a small town, things are more neighborly, and it would be a little rude NOT to greet someone walking down the street. Funny how that works.
Okay, dug up another interesting article. This one is about the progress towards finding faster acting anti-depressants. It mentions ketamine (nod to PsychoPoet), then goes on to talk about scopolamine.
http://psychcentral.com/news/2010/03/02/next-generation-antidepressants-offer-quick-benefits/11795.html
Scopolamine works in a similar way to the older class of anti-depressants, tricyclics (TCA's), with an onset of actions in only 3 days! When SSRI's came on to the scene, they were designed in part to avoid all the side effects of TCA's, but did so "at the expense of providing effective and timely relief for depression symptoms." (quote from the article).
Well, I personally would rather have more side effects at the outset if it meant I would be getting quicker relief from depression.
Scopolamine is actually on the market today in the form of transdermal patchs, sold to prevent the nausea associated with motion sickness - Transderm-Scop. And here is the site for that, http://www.transdermscop.com/. Wonder if you can get it over the counter (just checked, a prescription is needed), and what dose they are testing at for use in depression?
And I wonder if I spend too much time on the internet.
loulabella
06-05-10, 11:00
Wow, this is making me think differently about my 5htp - although it's increasing my happy chemicals, it may not be fixing the problem. I think this is an excellent way of thinking about meds - the side effects etc, that they are the process of fixing our brains. If you take chemotherapy for cancer, boy oh boy do you have side effects - but eventually you are better (I know not in all cases, but hypothetically). Perhaps 5htp should be thought about after treatment with antidepressents... hmmmm, got me thinking now.
L x
Wow, this is making me think differently about my 5htp - although it's increasing my happy chemicals, it may not be fixing the problem. I think this is an excellent way of thinking about meds - the side effects etc, that they are the process of fixing our brains. If you take chemotherapy for cancer, boy oh boy do you have side effects - but eventually you are better (I know not in all cases, but hypothetically). Perhaps 5htp should be thought about after treatment with antidepressents... hmmmm, got me thinking now.
L x
Hey Lou eeeeeze
Personally I think that neurogensis is linked tightly to our thoughts themselves. So if we think depressed we don't repair much, and if we think "up" and on top of things we do more repairs.
(not to mention the link between supernatural and natural, and prayer for those of who believe)
There's a book in the shops at the moment about the brain that fixes itself, which I found quite a comfort in this regard.
So think, consider and do good, because it's healing - I allege!
PsychoP if you get good links about mindfulness can you share as I'm quite interested in the contemplative aspects of my x'ian faith.
Cheeeeeeeeers
Martiniola!
:shrug:
what ???
@martbarr
Check out "The Mindful Way Through Depression" by Mark Williams, John Teasdale, Zindel Segal, and Jon Kabat-Zinn. They were the ones who coined Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy (MBCT). Very refreshing read.
http://www.mbct.com/
As I said in an earlier post here it combines Eastern mindfulness and meditation/awareness practice with traditional cognitive therapy.
One interesting point it makes is that we (as humans) always try to resist bad feelings. We try to get rid of them, or avoid them, or end up dwelling on them, making the feelings overblown, and bigger than they originally were. And how it actually does us well to just be with those negative thoughts, and feelings, observing them, allowing them to be there, in non-judgement, and how this lets them pass from us more easily (more easily than fighting them).
The point I'm in the book right now talks about thoughts are not real (what a concept!) I seem to forget this point when I'm in the thick of a depression, telling myself over and over in my head what a sack of crap I am, and how I won't amount to anything. Think of the following statement: ear is to sounds, as the mind is to thoughts. They shouldn't hold so much power over us (until we get caught up in them, in rumination, until we give them power) because they aren't real. They are just a product of the mind.
It seems so much of depression and anxiety is our thought processes that either bring up past regrets, or future worries. Both of which take us out of the moment we are living right now. Which is why I've also found Eckhart Tolle's book, "The Power of Now" very helpful to.
loulabella
09-05-10, 18:51
Hey Lou eeeeeze
Personally I think that neurogensis is linked tightly to our thoughts themselves. So if we think depressed we don't repair much, and if we think "up" and on top of things we do more repairs.
(not to mention the link between supernatural and natural, and prayer for those of who believe)
There's a book in the shops at the moment about the brain that fixes itself, which I found quite a comfort in this regard.
So think, consider and do good, because it's healing - I allege!
PsychoP if you get good links about mindfulness can you share as I'm quite interested in the contemplative aspects of my x'ian faith.
Cheeeeeeeeers
Martiniola!
:shrug:
what ???
Hellllo Martinoooooooooooooolalalalalallalalalalalalla ah la!
;) Yea, although I see your point, as a scientist, I have an alternative viewpoint, although most prob through conditioning. I agree that thinking happy can release more endoprphins (STUDIES HAVE SHOWN EVEN A FAKE SMILE CAN DO THIS) - I don't know about the regenration of neurons.
What's this book called anyhoot - might be worth a gander. I like to update my students with the latest academia to keep them amused during dull psychology lectures.... yawn* :)
New Compound Found for Depression: "... comes close to the holy grail of a perfectly balanced anti-depressant." Though human trials are still a while away.
http://www.sciencecentric.com/news/article.php?q=10020752-compound-created-at-osu-could-become-important-new-antidepressant
Interesting article - thanks.
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