Atos Medical Assessments

[doktorjohn]

Our social security system, now called The Dept. of Work and Pensions (DWP), is sending everyone that is "on the sick" to a medical assessment run by a company called Atos. I have been to one 3 years before and was deemed too ill to work due to sciatica and stress.

This time my condition is worse but I was told in a letter that I am fit for work and my money has been stopped. The killer is that everything I said at that assessment was reversed; and they are doing this to everyone.

For example I stated my back was hurting (it was and it does) and the Dr said she could see I was in pain and she checked out the mobility of my lower back and it was poor. In the letter it said I had no back problem.

Did I leave work because of stress? Yes. Letter said no. Were my leisure activities affected? Yes. Letter said no. Housework? Yes. Letter said no. And so on for 15 questions out of about 40.

We are scored on a points system and I was robbed of about 20 points due to straight-up lying. I only needed 10 points in my case, people on the newer benefit need 15.

They use software called LiMA and they click boxes and it generates sentences about you. She also typed a lot, although not what I was saying, in fact the opposite.

The next step is to appeal but you have to live on 50 pounds a week until you get there in 9 months. Most people win the appeal but a lot can't handle the appeal because it's too complicated and stressful.

Please post if you have experience of this.

[ladybird64]

Hi there :)

This is a subject that has come up many times before, can I suggest that you type "employment support allowance" into the search function?

You will find loads of posts on benefits including some on ESA, I have had personal experience with this when I claimed for my daughter and you're absolutely right, they do lie.

We appealed and won but it took 6 months and a hell of a lot of determination to get there in the end. My daughter had been awarded ESA but had been placed in the work related activities group which was the wrong decision as she is unable to take part in any work, this is what I appealed against.

[doktorjohn]

Thank you so much for replying. I was surprised that I found nothing about Atos (atosH, we call it on another forum).

I will search for ESA as you suggest.

Thanx

dj

[Vixxy]

Hi, were going to have a lot of problems now that the Tories are in power. One of thei manifestos was to get "lazy" people off of benefits. How they work out who is lazy and who isnt doesnt come into it. Youre on benefits ergo youre lazy.

My dad had this problem a few years ago and it took a few months for them to restart his benefits.

My assessment letter was in January, but for some reason theyve not called me in to see a doctor. God knows what I wrote this time that made them think just leave her alone shes obviously batty as a cat. Im hoping this new drive to get people off benefits doesnt cause me problems.

None of us need the extra stress this kind of thing leaves us with.
I hope your claim goes through quickly.

[doktorjohn]

Hi Vixxy

Yes there will be trouble. If you do get called up please please get advice from this website:- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/ because the Atos medical assessments are far more devious now.

I don't want to alarm people but I do feel a duty to persuade people to find out what is going on before it happens to them.

dj

[unspoken]

Hi John

My older sister, who is 25, has ME and fibromyalgia and is unable to work. She can only manage a short walk each day. She was refused ESA but appealed with the help of my father and managed to get Legal Aid - there is a legal centre near my house which provides free legal advice and legal aid. It took almost a year but she won the appeal. This was almost 2 months ago however and they still haven't paid her any money because they still haven't decided what she's entitled to. It involves lots of paperwork going back and forth and lots of misunderstandings and misinformation on the part of the government agencies.

It is awful how they put ill people through so much stress and hassle. Since there was some publicity about people claiming disability benefits because they couldn't walk who were then found to be doing marathons and selling pirate videos in their spare time the government have used it as an excuse to 'crack down'. They set themselves a target to get 1 million people off Incapacity Benefits (something like that amount) but they apparently have no way of counting how many people are on it.

[doktorjohn]

Hi unspoken

Yes it is political and good people are being stressed out of their wits. Atos are blatantly giving false information about people because they gain from getting people off the sick. People with serious problems are being told there is nothing wrong with them.

Incredible.

dj

[DEREKG]

Hi doktorjohn. I have had experience with them and I'm furious with them. They didn't listen to a word I said and basically told me I was fine. Feeling like I had no choice, I accepted it and tried to get on with life. Recently my anxiety's become worse than it's ever been and I'm going to have to deal with them again. I'm not looking forward to it and I think their practices are shameful! However that's not to say everyone will be treated the same, I guess.

[doktorjohn]

Trouble is it looks like most people are being treated badly. You can win at the appeal though. Check out this website:- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/

dj

[Wolfie]

There should be some sort of documentary on TV about the truth of all this stuff, like the hassle and the complete crap that genuinely ill people go through, simply because they are all tarnished with the label that they are lazy, just because of a few liars who screwed the system. It's terrible!

[doktorjohn]

I reckon it will make it to our screens at some point WolfiesALady.

Atos also assess NHS staff and they said that a nurse was too ill to work (she was getting over anorexia) and when she lost her job Atos said she is fit and can't have ESA.

This is a true case and I'll try to find a link to it.

dj

[doktorjohn]

Not had time to find that link but the BBC have reported on this subject more than once I think. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8465122.stm

[Vixxy]

they probably make commission for everyone they get booted off benefits.

[doktorjohn]

I believe they do have an arrangement but I can't say exactly what it is because
I'm only just learning about it all as I go along.

What I've heard so far is staggering and it's amazing it carries on. The trouble is that
right-wing voices are against "paying for a benefits culture" with their taxes.

Ignoring that we have paid taxes and are really ill. I'm sure you know score on that kind
of hate-mongering.

dj

[PoppyC]

Hi
I am now working, but I do know a lot about benefits as I used to work for the DWP.
Anyone who is on Incap Benefit will be moved onto ESA within the next 2 years.
What is happening is that the genuine cases, whether suffering with physical or mental health, are being made to suffer due to the types who are fit for work but sponge off the system fraudently.
The conservatives are going to be very strict on who gets ESA, but do not forget that Labour under Tony Blair brought in the changes!
Even people with agoraphobia are going to have to go into the DWP office to sign on for ESA every 2 weeks to claim it and if they don't the money will be reduced every time until nothing.
All I can advise is go to your gp/mental health team and get them to write a letter saying how you are affected, to the DWP and that way you may be able to not have to sign on and in some instances your own gp may be able to give you the medical rather than the DWP's own medical examiners.

[doktorjohn]

Hi PoppyC.

Yes labour did let us down big-time with this and the Tories will make it worse.
GP's don't have the power they used to have in these matters, but yes, let's get them on-side.

Something's gotta give.

dj

[PoppyC]

Hi again doktorjohn
Yes it was Labour and now the Conservatives, who are trying to cut money, anyway they can. It is not fair on the genuinely unwell, be it physically or mentally.
The people who are claiming benefits when there is nothing wrong with them, have made it now much harder for the genuine claimants.
I think it is all so unfair - talk about penalising the vulnerable! instead of the real culprits of benefit fraud including those who claim thousands fraudently, whilst working, who I read about in the papers, living extravagant and expensive lifestyles, and then go to court and get ordered to pay it all back at about a £1 a week!
What annoys me is that unwell people, having probably worked in the past, and paid taxes, get targeted as lazy scroungers, and yet people can come to this country, having never worked and contributed here, including their parents and grandparents, and claim benefits as as asylum seekers! Maybe not politically correct of me to write that but it is true.
People can appeal but it does take some time.
How can people who are so badly affected, work? I could not get out of bed when I had a nervous breakdown, let alone go to sign on! Thankfully I lived with my partner.
What employer is going to employ very unwell people, in the first place, once they find out what they are suffering with! Secondly...where are the job vacancies these days!
How can agoraphobics for example get out to sign on at an office every 2 weeks, and if they dont then the benefits get cut further for each time missed.
I am agoraphobic, so I guess how hard that must be.Thankfully I can work, but I can imagine how hard it would be otherwise.
Its all so wrong. I think anyone going through a hard time getting their rightful benefits and receiving unfair treatment by ATOS, should contact Citizens Advice, get their gp to write letters, as well as involve their mental health team, - do everything they can to appeal.

[miles]

I've posted before about my history so I won't bore you again....

Been suffering for 8 months now and had to stop work throughout. I've always paid my taxes, and so went through Atos paperwork etc. to get benefit. They took over 6 months to assess me (during which I got nothing), then arranged for a medical assessment at Atos. I kept contacting them to ask why I hadn't received anything for months, and they said it would be decided by Atos medical.

I explained that I had sent 3 sick notes from doc for the previous 7 months and the lady said it made no difference and that the Atos medical overrules your GP.

So I received no benefit for nearly 8 months, and in the end I couldn't face doing the Atos medical assessment - because I was too ill to drive and they very kindly sent me a route by public transport.... 4 buses and 2 trains.

I was so depressed I rang and told them not to bother, so I received no benefits for 8 months and now I'm working part time (which is really hard).

BUT! this is not why I write this post!
I suspect all of us on here are in the same boat... and we're too anxious to 'play' the system or lie to get what we want.

What really angers me is that I really did want my life back and eventually got part time work, although it's hard going.

I know of nine people, 4 of them related to me, who get full Incapacity Benefit. Noe of them are ill! They are all long term unemployed adults, and they complain of backaches and stress and because they have been long term on sick benefit won't be assessed by Atos for another 2 years.

Makes me so angry!

One of them is 47, been on sick benefit for ten years because he pretends he's got depression, and works for cash during the week.

That's the point I want to make, before everyone gets made at politicians or the system etc. It's the scroungers such as these that have broken the system and taken all the budget. The people I know play the system and get full benefits..... even getting discretionary loans from the DHSS/DWP for new cookers and washers etc.

I feel so sorry for genuine ill people because the ill people are not strong enough to make a good case for themselves, whereas the scroungers will use every trick in the book.

makes me so mad!!!!

One relative (the one that works and gets IB) asked me how my claim was going. I said I hadn't got anything. He said I'd just have to get back to work.... when I asked him how about him getting a job his reply:

"listen, it's not worth me getting a job, it's hard enough as it is on sickness benefit, after my bills are paid and with my cash jobs I'm only left with £700 a month to spend, anyway everyone does it"

welcome to Britain, where the system works for the scroungers.....

[doktorjohn]

Spot on Miles. I could not agree more. I know some scroungers as well, they will find it harder to cheat, but not as hard as the really ill, who will find it too difficult to get what they deserve.

The government are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

dj

[Angelai]

An example for you.

My mum has emphysema (sp?), chronic lung disease, chronic asthma, osteo-arthritis. She uses a nebulizer 4 times a day (3 different drugs) and takes numerous pills and inhalers. She has to carefully plan her days to involve the least number of trips up and down the stairs. She can't even walk to the end of her road without having to sit down and or/have a puff on an inhaler.

Last year, 2 months before her 60th birthday, Atos decided she was fit for work. She would have to get a job or sign on for job seekers allowance. Her doctor was absolutely incensed and wanted to appeal on her behalf - how dare they question the opinion and authority of a doctor with 40 years experience, who has been treating my mum for 12 years?

Mum was lucky enough to come across a very sympathetic soul at the job centre (a rarity, it seems) who told her not to worry, just come and sign her name for 2 months then she would be on to her pension. However, at her second appointment it was a completely different story. Apparently, mum was able to work for an hour each day (in between nebulizer sessions and taking into account her illnesses), and the advisor wanted to know why mum hadn't applied for any jobs. Mum asked what kind of job she could do for only an hour a day, the advisor suggested, rather snottily, dinner lady. Mum asked if she had any vacancies for a dinner lady and was told, not at the moment... This advisor then went on to say, very nastily, that she herself had diabetes and SHE still managed to go to work. Where do they get these people...

I think it's absolutely disgraceful the way genuinely ill people are treated by this NON-MEDICALLY TRAINED group of decision makers. Thankfully, mum is now getting her pension (which wasn't an easy task, in the end, but that's another story).

[JaneC]

Heard about this on the radio yesterday, the guy who designed the ESA system is saying it's leading to genuinely ill people being denied the benefit

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7766146/New-benefit-system-for-disabled-people-wrongly-finding-people-fit-to-work.html

[london]

there was a program on bbc scotland last night about them may see it on i player

[london]

here thay are
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00sjn3x/BBC_Scotland_Investigates_2010_Whos_Cheating_Who/

[doktorjohn]

Angelai,

That is a sad story and a sad state of affairs. We've just had a program on TV about the system it exposed everything and yet Iain Duncan Smith is on the box today bleating on about getting everyone in work.

The program was called, "Who's Cheating Who?" on BBC 1 Scotland and I think it's available on iPlayer.

john

[JaneC]

My friend has a very severely disabled daughter who by no stretch of anybody's imagination would be able to work and yet they wanted to take away her benefits. Fortunately their appeal was successful, but it's an absolute disgrace. As usual, the people who really are ill suffer while no doubt some of the chancers who spoil things for everybody carry on getting away with it :mad:

[Going home]

Just watched the link from here...what an awful situation. These assessments don't seem to do enough to allow for mental illness. What's the point of asking a person with mental health problems to bend down and touch their toes or raise their arms and legs in the air? crazy system.

Anna xx

[doktorjohn]

I have to live on £52 a week up to the appeal. This probably will take 8 months. If I win they will have to give me my money back, about £1300. Sounds great but I've been almost suicidal over this rubbish.

I will be in debt by then so it's win or bust. Some folks have been paid compensation so bear that in mind folks.

john

[nervy-paul]

Just wanted to add to this both interesting and depressing thread. It is a utterly insane system that needs scrapping and starting again from scratch, if only common sense ruled the benefits system then it would be a whole lot fairer, instead of penalising those it is easy to bully/intimidate.

I have a medical assessment myself tomorrow afternoon. When I first read this thread earlier today, my stomach tensed up and I started worrying. Now, I'm not so much, I will still be anxious and tense when I go, but all I can do, all any of us can do, is be honest and true to ourselves, and hope for the best.

[doktorjohn]

Hi nervy-paul

My message to people like yourself is brace yourself for a slap in the face when they declare you fit for work. BUT the GOOD news is that when I got my appeal papers the assessor HAD actually put loads of truths in; all that was missing was the crucial points.

This is good because at the appeal the tribunal will see all the health issues I have. Even the fact that I was nervous and tense at the assessment was written down.

So really emphasise your problems because, in the long run, you may well win through.

dj

[bomberbeamish]

i think all assesments should be filmed, recorded,, and witnessed,

[shorty1969]

Just wanted to add to this both interesting and depressing thread. It is a utterly insane system that needs scrapping and starting again from scratch, if only common sense ruled the benefits system then it would be a whole lot fairer, instead of penalising those it is easy to bully/intimidate.

I have a medical assessment myself tomorrow afternoon. When I first read this thread earlier today, my stomach tensed up and I started worrying. Now, I'm not so much, I will still be anxious and tense when I go, but all I can do, all any of us can do, is be honest and true to ourselves, and hope for the best.
I have to go for one in two weeks time in glasgow , ive missed three appts already due to my anx being so bad i could hardly leave the house , but they dont give a shit about this , and just tell you your money will get stopped if you dont attend , im getting realy upset and angry with the whole thing . Aint it great how all the junkies and so called people with a drink problem get away with there self afflicted problem and we get treated like criminals ..

[doktorjohn]

From what I now know, this is affecting "junkies" etc. They seem to be doing it to almost everyone which is surprising because they are exposing themselves every time they stomp on someone who is critically ill.

The appeal tribunals must be seeing a pattern of failures by now.

dj

[PoppyC]

Hi
I just wanted to add that addictions are illnesses too and can prevent a person from holding down a job.
You can insist on having the medical at your home, if you are housebound, have agoraphobia etc.
All the best with your interview.

[doktorjohn]

Thanks for that PoppyC, I am a recovering addict, 10 years clean so I especially like what you said.

People are entitled to their opinions but are they well-informed opinions? I don't know.

dj

[nervy-paul]

Just wanted to update that my appointment went ok, bloke fairly pleasant and now I just wait and see. A NSF Scotland advicer came with me as moral support, she is a lovely and supportive lady, she says the atos people are in a mess, as they have a huge backlog of people to see, let alone the appeals, and will likely be waiting months before I hear back from them. Yet the bloke says I would hear from them in a few weeks. It was a nerve-wracking experience - as always, I was even in the exact same room that I was 'assessed' in the last time I was called in. I felt quite awful before and during, and quite drained after. Shaky and unsteady, sweating and hot, twitchy eye, and generally feeling like c**p. Took ages before I felt 'normal' again - thanks mainly to my good friends who I work with pt in a dog charity shop.
Today, I feel quite flat and lathargic, partly I imagine, due to yesterday. Though I imagine that's a fairly common reaction to these 'medical assessments'.

[doktorjohn]

I'm glad you had some support nervy-paul, it certainly is exhausting especially with all the bad news going around.

You might be ok, some people are allowed to keep their benefits and that is a fact, we just don't know how many. Good luck.

dj

[mumble]

Since I am agoraphobic they are coming to see me next week. I am really quite anxious and don't know what to expect from their visit. Can anyone offer some advice?

[doktorjohn]

The best advice is on this forum:- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/

Any thread with "Atos" or "Atosh" as we call it. There are one or two people that have had home assessments.

dj

[mumble]

The best advice is on this forum:- http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/

Any thread with "Atos" or "Atosh" as we call it. There are one or two people that have had home assessments.

dj

Oh thanks - that's neat.

[Typer]

Since the budget, this all seems very scary.

I helped someone write their appeal and it was accepted and he got his money back, plus they gave him his usual money. However, the stress it caused I would say it made him quite ill and any progress he had made was negated by his treatment.

His answers were misquoted in the assessment, and when he said no, they ticked yes etc. It was awful. Now he may have to go through this again.

He was put back on the old payment system, rather than the new one, but will he now be reassessed?

There will always be people who fake illness...no system can stop that really - I think it's going to be a rocky ride with the conservatives, even though labour introduced the System. Labour in my opinion, were wolves in sheeps clothing - they became new Labour and started being like the conservatives we had in the 60's and 70's

[doktorjohn]

The government aim to migrate everyone on DLA or Incapacity Benefit over to the new and terribly unfair ESA. It will take a few years, maybe several, but that is the aim.

I myself am expecting to win my appeal for IB but to be migrated, re-assessed and failed again. It's making me ill too and suicide is an option I think of a few times most days.

Sorry to be so pessimistic, I hope they come to their senses but I wouldn't hold my breath.

I agree with your political views.

dj

[loveletter]

Will I have to see any one for a medical.
I get dla lowest rate mobility and income support for my child and me.
I am agoraphobic and can not leave my house at all on my own and even when with some one can not really go very far.

[Danath]

don't get me started on these guys, they are absoloutely disgusting and are clearly being 'marked' on how much money they save the government, anyway to cut a long story short

*long tirade of hatred and abuse towards Atos*

yeah sorry I'm not much help, but jsut another shout out to you to say you aren't alone on this and that their treatment on people with mental health disorders is almost nazi-like

[doktorjohn]

Will I have to see any one for a medical.
I get dla lowest rate mobility and income support for my child and me.
I am agoraphobic and can not leave my house at all on my own and even when with some one can not really go very far.

Hi loveletter,

Some people are assessed at home and some people are allowed to keep their benefits. I use the following website for info and support:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/benefits-tax-credits-minimum/

john

[Trixie]

Our social security system, now called The Dept. of Work and Pensions (DWP), is sending everyone that is "on the sick" to a medical assessment run by a company called Atos. I have been to one 3 years before and was deemed too ill to work due to sciatica and stress.

This time my condition is worse but I was told in a letter that I am fit for work and my money has been stopped. The killer is that everything I said at that assessment was reversed; and they are doing this to everyone.

For example I stated my back was hurting (it was and it does) and the Dr said she could see I was in pain and she checked out the mobility of my lower back and it was poor. In the letter it said I had no back problem.

Did I leave work because of stress? Yes. Letter said no. Were my leisure activities affected? Yes. Letter said no. Housework? Yes. Letter said no. And so on for 15 questions out of about 40.

We are scored on a points system and I was robbed of about 20 points due to straight-up lying. I only needed 10 points in my case, people on the newer benefit need 15.

They use software called LiMA and they click boxes and it generates sentences about you. She also typed a lot, although not what I was saying, in fact the opposite.

The next step is to appeal but you have to live on 50 pounds a week until you get there in 9 months. Most people win the appeal but a lot can't handle the appeal because it's too complicated and stressful.

Please post if you have experience of this.


I have been reading a lot about this American company Atos and to be honest they haven't got a very good name at all. It seems that they are a law unto themselves the person who interviews you maybe a doctor or a nurse and may not have mental health experience at all.

As they are being paid by the Government to to this they are obviously going to do their best to get people off benefit no matter if they are fit or not.

This is on their website


All our 1700+ healthcare professionals are fully trained to undertake disability assessments, are registered with the General Medical Council or the Nursing and Midwifery Council, and approved by the Chief Medical Adviser to the DWP.
Our performance is measured each month against key performance indicators that include the quality of medical reports as well as claimant satisfaction.
Through the introduction of the new Employment and Support Allowance, we work closely with the DWP to support its agenda of 'Work for those who can and support for those who cannot'.

[Trixie]

I find this disgusting.





All healthcare professionals (HCP) regardless of primary qualifications are fully trained in Disability Assessment Medicine … A customer may submit evidence from their doctor or specialist, however, unlike the more widely known type of examination, the HCP's assessment is not concerned with diagnosis or decisions about treatment and therefore specialist diagnostic qualifications are unnecessary."

[Pleasant]

Hey Doktor..
crikey!! Had my assessment 10 days ago!! + wow..
Just like Yourself :( all my money stopped + the answers i gave, wernt the ones on the form!
Its like they said the opposite to wat i said :S
They even stopped my housing benefit the same day.. crazy.
+ wats more boggling ... Is my sick note is untill the 22nd october,+ i have a 12yr old son, They didnt even put me on income support!
They just stopped everything..
good job i have medical evidence... Im appealling too x
Best of luck with yours ..

[Gregor]

I have an appointment with these next Monday. I've seen them twice already - been deemed too ill to work on the past occasions. However, they signed me off for only 3 months last time. As i said at the time, i've been ill for 9 years and you expect me to have recovered in 3 months??!

It's ridiculous anyway, the whole process. Last time i went, i asked if there would be anyone medically qualified there - for instance if i became ill (do to my health problems) - and i was told they have First Aid Trained staff! yes, first aid. I was under the impression there would be at least one doctor as i'm being medically assessed!

I do find the whole thing designed to cause as much stress as possible and they really don't care.

[chrisdevelop]

I have recently been to one of the medical for the 3rd time, the 1st and second ones they said I was fit despite all the real medical evidence.

I have gone to appeal twice and won my cases being placed into the support group each time. This 3rd one again they have removed me from the support group, so again I will have to appeal.

I am so fed up with this, the pain and stress of all this is just too much.
I have an appointment to see the Prime Minister about Atos on the 17th, only he can stop this farce for ill people. The examinations are a joke, and its me and others who suffer.

I am looking into taking ATOS to court to expose them in this, for legal reasons, I cannot state here what they are but they are serious. Believe me this will involve barristers, and its not cheap unless a no win no fee or pro bono is availble from a team of soliciters.

I am asking everyone, if they would be prepared to donate towards the cost of a leal team. We will be asking for substantial compensation from ATOS, and if you have a strong case yourself in their wrong doings, then we can do this as a group.

This cannot be allowed to go on anymore the DWP wont do anything, so it needs to come out in court with full TV and paper publicity. They have now pushed me too far, and now its time for them to answer their critics US.
If you would like to help form a group action or would like to donate please let me know. The more people that can help the better not just in donating but in forming a group action. There have already been protests around various ATOS offices, and I will let everyone know what happends at my meeting with the Prime Minister in 2 weeks time.

[doktorjohn]

Hi chrisdevelop

There are a few people I know of trying to bring a case to the courts. I expect you know the Consumer Action Group website, but if you don't here is a link:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?160-Benefits-Tax-Credits-and-Minimum-Wage

You will find support there for sure.

- dj

[chrisdevelop]

Many thanks