View Full Version : intrusive thoughts
its been a while since i lasted posted a thread
I'd say my anxiety has been a bit better and life definately has been more manageable. definately would say im not cured yet but hopefully i will continue to see progress as the weeks go on. its been 5 months now since i first began experiencing anxiety and attacks. i still get occassional mild attacks which are very frightening but they go away as i calm myself.
i am sort of trying to figure out how this "anxiety system" works because i dont believe they happen for absolutely no reason. after analyzing time after time what may be causing them i think i found out that my thoughts are the main reason.
Like i noticed multiple times when i make a "fake scenario" in my head and THINK i have trouble breathing or have a headache it actually comes. Like im beginning to think my anxiety and anxiety attacks are because i send false messages to my brain that something is wrong with me when theres nothing wrong and it begins to freak out.
i also get repeptitive and intrustive thoughts. like if im thinking about difficult breathing and then i start to become short of breath, i cant stop thinking about it. its like my brain WANTS me to suffer by thinking these thoughts.
also songs now get stuck in my head easily and sometimes when im in bed i hear voices in my head. like things people have said to me during the day or a phrase one of my friends constantly repeats.
anxiety is simply a very big annoyance i want to get rid of. im hoping that this will go away on its own without medication because i dont want to feel drugged out, just normal.
i guess this is just one theory about my anxiety, what are your guy's comments on this?
what may be causing them i think i found out that my thoughts are the main reason.
I think sufferers go looking for magic cures including meds for purely anxiety because anxiety makes them believe they're really ill because they "feel" ill due to the symptoms anxiety creates but in reality ALL anxiety is created by our thoughts because we tend to be natural worriers and like you say, we love to delve, dwell and analyse things rather than just letting symptom go like we do with a sneeze. We don't even bother to think about sneezes because they don't normally frighten us.
Whether we consciously think something that frightens us or whether it's subconscious, our anxious symptoms are always created by thoughts.
For instance, we might have a conscious thought about a situation that frightens us and that then triggers anxious feelings but if we saw a lion, we don't actually think to ourselves we're going to be eaten because we automatically know a lion represents danger and so in this modern world our lions now appear in the form of stress and worry.
We're often insecure, sensitive and lack confidence, and especially a lack of confidence will cause self-doubt which in turn makes us indecisive because we then worry about the decisions we make. We also then feel stressed which then triggers anxiety and its symptoms. In other words, our general make-up, our upbringing and events we encounter plus some stress all mount up to create anxiety.
if im thinking about difficult breathing and then i start to become short of breath, i cant stop thinking about it. its like my brain WANTS me to suffer by thinking these thoughts.
We have a compulsion to dwell on thoughts that frighten us and the more we dwell on them, the more ill we feel. If we train ourselves to not dwell on frightening thoughts or symptoms, they ALWAYS go away until we next feel under stress.
im hoping that this will go away on its own
You just need to recognise the causes above, nip them in the bud and learn how not to dwell on frightening thoughts and feelings.....and they WILL then go away because they'll no longer frighten you into creating the cycle of anxious feelings.
It's all within our OWN ability once we have the knowledge and feel strong enough to put what we know into practise.
Fear feeds Fear. Starve it and it starves. In other words, the more you analyse and dwell on frightening thoughts and feelings, the more you feed your anxiety and the worse you'll feel. Don't dwell. Don't think. Don't allow your mind to worry...and the symptoms will be starved of the fear they need to survive.:)
thank you for you comments bill.
I know the pain and discomfort and fear is all in my head because when I distract myself it all goes away. If i truly did have something wrong the uncomfortable feeling wouldn't just disappear if i distracted myself. its all in my head and i know that. im not making up the symptoms, i just think thoughts that make me go into panic mode causing a fight or flight reaction.
now I need to learn how to release these thoughts and simply stop dwelling. I would give anything to have a "new brain" (although nothing is really wrong with mine its just always anixous!)
I need some tips on how to retrain my thinking and how to just "release" so i never have anxiety from my thoughts in the first place
I can only really say what works for me....
If I'm out and I start feeling anxious, I make sure I don't dwell on my feelings by finding something of interest to distract me such as looking at things around me such as the countryside, items in shops or even try to get into conversation with whoever is with me or around me. For instance, today I was in a shop looking at something and someone came up to me saying they had also been looking at them wondering if they were a good idea to buy. It broke the ice and we started talking which immediately stops you thinking inwardly.
If I hear or see something that triggers any anxious thoughts, I turn my mind onto something I enjoy even by simply listening to my favourite music.
I feel that one of the important things to remember is the level of stress. The more stressed we feel, the more anxious thoughts seem to attack so although often we can't prevent every day stresss, we can learn how to prevent those stresses causing uncontrollable anxiety. For instance, you could be having a really stressful day with too many things to do in too little time. We then try to push ourselves to fit everything in when it's simply impossible. Therefore, we have to remind ourselves we're only human and not to expect of ourselves what is not humanly possible. Instead of constantly pushing ourselves, remember to take time-outs during the day together with a relaxation routine in the evening. This doesn't mean sitting doing nothing though because that's when the stress of the day will trigger all the worries. It means finding a little hobby to help you unwind but something practical which engrosses the mind. Even crosswords or reading can help.
When I feel anxious before I go out, once I'm out the door, my mind immediately turns to thinking about where I need to go, how to get there, what I need and I then train my thoughts in a mental plan of the route I need to take etc. Sometimes making a list of the places you need to go and the things you need to get can help focus the mind. If the things are written in order, it's like drawing up a plan of action so that it keeps the mind trained away from thinking inwardly.
Of course there are also relaxation methods such as breathing exercises etc but sometimes I wonder if by simply focusing on breathing correctly can actually mean the mind is then also being reminded that you're feeling anxious so you end up trying to control something that your mind is made of conscious of rather than simply trying to ignore and forget because in that way the anxiety always subsides. That's just my own feeling though because I feel the best defence is to ignore anxious feelings by saying to yourself "so what...think and do what you like because you're not going to get my attention!". That way it then ignores you too. I think different things work for different people and it's more of case of finding what works best for the individual like creating the right package.
One thing I find that always helps me when I'm feeling anxious or depressed is finding a new project. For instance there might be something you've always thought of doing but always felt too anxious or can't find the energy. However, if you then push yourself into the project your mind then starts planning what needs doing next and the things you need or need to do to reach your objective. This means that you have something to look forward to, something that occupies your mind when you're sitting trying to relax and in those boring times at work. I find it can really engross the mind and so helps to keep the mind occupied away from anxious thoughts.
The worst thing I think we can do is just sit or lay down with nothing to occupy the mind because we then Always start to focus on intrusive thoughts and feelings which then feeds our anxiety. If you cut off the supply, anxiety starves and the more relaxed we remain so intrusive thoughts are then much less of a problem.
One other thing is that I always think of intrusive thoughts as being like an old-fashioned videotape constantly being replayed. Wht I mean is that certain events through our lives will upset and frighten us and as a result they leave an imprint in our minds which we then replay when we feel stressed and anxious. The temptation is to try and block these thoughts out but the more we try to do this, the more they keep coming back. I find that when I get these thoughts I just ignore them and carry on with what I'm doing. I re-focus the mind on what I'm doing rather than what I'm thinking and dismiss the thoughts as a passing memory being replayed. That way they don't tense me up and so disappear again. If you allow yourself to tense up, dwell and analyse these thoughts, the more anxious you become and the more likely they'll keep hampering you. We have millions of thoughts every day. We just need to try to treat them in all the same way - just thoughts.
The last thing I would suggest is adequate sleep and making sure you feel relaxed before you sleep so you get a good nights sleep. When we're tired we find it more difficult to concentrate and this then triggers anxious thoughts.
Generally speaking, I feel it's a combination of things we need to break the cycle of anxiety. No one thing can break it in itself. For instance, a good nights sleep helps but not if we then dwell on thoughts during the day making it harder to sleep the next night. Breaking the cycle means creating a whole new routine and a new way of thinking. Anxiety loves attention so we have to learn ways to deny it what it needs at All times to enable us to regain control of our lives.
Introduce one positive thing at a time and gradually anxiety then becomes less of an issue.
Anyway, I could go on!...but hopefully that helps a little along the way.:shrug:
I notice I have breathing difficulties as my #1 symptom and it really affects me because its hard to ignore. I find that distracting myself IS the best cure and you are 100% correct. I just wish I "forget" I ever had anxiety and it would make my life easier.
andrea thompson
22-05-10, 23:10
hi chilli2424
it sounds like you have been through the worst and are on the mend now - you said things have generally improved - thats good.
i think its normal to be up and down and anxious about your health - in my experience this passes as you recover.
i personally believe that we do not just suffer from anxiety for no reason - i think we bring it on ourselves by putting ourselves under too much pressure. pressure to be perfect, pressure to achieve, pressure to perform the best we can, always. we expect our body and minds to perform 100% all of the time and yet we dont look after our bodies or minds and still expect a first class performance. slow down - let your mind and body recover and the anxiety will leave you!
i note that you said you do not wish to be drugged - i can only tell you that i have fealt citalopram and in the past seroxat have really helped me - they do not make you feel weird or not yourself they just help you to deal with what you are going through.
this is my thoughts on the depression - anxiety subject - i am a sufferer and have been on and off for about 11 years - i blamed my lifestyle for my initial bout of depression and anxiety and over the years it has been a mixture of neglect on my part and unfortunate life events that have triggered further episodes.
i hope this helps you in some small way - take care
andrea x x
I believe different things work for different people so the main thing is we all find what works for us. Some people will say a particular therapy helped them hugely and others will say a particular med was there answer. I feel anxiety affects people in so many ways that there is never one concrete answer that would work for everyone because anxiety develops in different forms depending on our personalities together with the events we've been through.
A good example is seroxat. Andrea, you found it worked really well for you but I found it was the worst med I ever tried because of the extreme side-effects. I really Did feel weird on them. I don't why but they just didn't agree with me. They were So bad that my anxiety was made much worse but that was just my own experience of them because as I say, different meds seem to affect people in different ways. I think it's very much trial and error even by the doctors and psychiatrists because they just can't tell if they'll work or not.
I tried numerous meds and although they did often lift my mood, they could never tackle the reasons why my anxiety was so bad so my anxiety always returned which brings me to your other issue which I agree with....
Perfectionism
i think we bring it on ourselves by putting ourselves under too much pressure. pressure to be perfect, pressure to achieve, pressure to perform the best we can, always. we expect our body and minds to perform 100% all of the time and yet we dont look after our bodies or minds and still expect a first class performance. slow down - let your mind and body recover and the anxiety will leave you!
If we analyse ourselves, the way we are, the way we think and the pressures we put upon ourselves mixed with our own personal bad experiences, I feel we can build a picture as to why we've become so anxious. As you say, we strive to be perfect in everything we do because of our intense nature. We place enormous stress upon ourselves to get things just right All the time and this tension we create when added to our lack of confidence and self-doubt then makes us worry about everything through life. In effect, we contribute to our own problems without realising it.
I can think of a good example of this which relates perfectly to this thread because of my own experiences. If you can picture me when I was in my teens, I was very shy, very intense and lacked a huge amount of confidence. I absolutely hated being let on my own because of my insecurities so when it came to going out and I had to lock up, it was an absolute nightmare for me because I was so worried about getting the blame if anything went wrong.
I used to check everything...locks, switches, taps...making sure everything was locked and switched off. However, because of my intensity and lack of confidence, I could never trust myself so I would have to keep going back to check again and again. I was a nervous wreck by the time I got out and all the times I was replaying in my mind to try and reassure myself I had done everything correctly.
The problem was though that the checking was only the first symptom. The next issue was the counting. Checking things a certain number of times until I reached what I regarded a "safe" number but if anything interrupted me I'd have to start all over again.
The next issue though was the intrusive thoughts. Always bad things that I then tried to block out whilst I was checking. I found I just couldn't concentrate because of trying to block out bad thoughts whilst trying to check something. It meant in effect that after I'd leave it I struggled to remember if I'd checked correctly because all I could think of was the thoughts.
This is how I came to be prescribed seroxat but personally, I found they made me even more ill.
My OCD went on for years without any recognition or treatment until I was offered seroxat but after I tried it, I then decided to analyse myself and the way I was going about things to try and find ways to ease my anxieties for myself.
I realised how much of a perfectionism I am so now I try to allow myself to make mistakes that don't matter without worrying about them. I also realised that the intrusive thoughts were just thoughts so I learnt to ignore them. I found once you ignore them one, you find out then that the're safe to ignore so it becomes easier the next time. When I check things now I do still check what I've looked at but I no longer worry as I did before.
I found if you can take pressure off yourself, anxiety becomes less and so compulsions due to intrusive thoughts also become much less compulsive to feel you have to repeat or cancel thoughts out. Basically, it's learning a whole new more relaxed approach to life because I think when we're young Everything feels Vitally important but as you get older you then wonder what you were getting so anxious about. I sometimes think to myself how violently sick I was before exams and now I feel they didn't count for much anyway so there really wasn't any point getting so wound up about them.
I know in lots of ways I'm lucky because I feel I don't have the pressures many of you have had to bear so I regard myself as fortunate that I feel I can now quite happily cope without meds unless something happens that drags me down like losing my dog when I felt I really did need a lift.
I don't feel we can ever forget we live with anxiety though because really anxiety is perfectly natural. We just take it to an extreme because of our make-ups and the ways we've been treated. We're sensitive people and there's nothing we can do about that and nor should we. I still feel that if everyone in this world suffered from anxiety we'd all learn to treat each other with more care so why try to change what makes you who you are? I just feel it's more a case of learning how to live with yourself so that you know when to tell yourself to stop using bad thinking patterns.
If you walk down the street and you're confronted by a lion, you're going to panic! It's a perfectly natural reaction to a perceived danger. It's just that we see danger everywhere because of our nature to worry. It's what we do but it also means we worry about those we care about, and what's wrong with that?
The sad thing to me is that if we all had SamWise the Braves, we'd probably all feel much less anxious but the real world often means we have to learn to cope for ourselves whether we like it or not but that's not to say we can't learn and find enjoyment in living with our worries.
Anxiety is just a Big bully. It has no substance and nor can it do anything to cause harm. It just likes to think it can and we have to learn how to tell it to get lost and not care what it says or thinks it can do to us but certainly if we learn how to reduce pressures from around us and within us, it can help to disarm anxiety.
Regarding the breathing, if it reaches a point where nothing can distract you then I'd certainly say to remember how to take deep breaths but also don't worry or dwell on the symptoms because otherwise you're fanning the flames whilst at the same time trying to put them out so it becomes counter productive. Try instead to treat them like a sneeze...remember it's just a natural reaction...to too much stress just a sneeze is a natural reaction because it's been stressed by pollen or dust. Once it's blown away, we carry on as if nothing happened. Panics are less likely to return if we stop looking for them otherwise it's like constantly looking for a florist to create more sneezes.:)
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