View Full Version : the train carriages to hell
nightmares
a scene of total wartime-like decay and destruction.buildings collapsing around and on top of me,giving up and falling prey to hard drug use.feeling the despair of needing anaesthesia to numb the feelings.in the midst of it all an act of kindness towards a very ill child (who recovered)
then the "death blow" that often comes in my dreams;seeing carriage after carriage of golden,cherub-like children,naked and curled up in cages
glowing with golden innocence,being transported off to their fate of rape and murder.I CANT TAKE THIS MUCH MORE night after night after night.
yes ... i am angry.......i have to get my golden kids to school and nursery,
i am terrified.all i want is drugs (i have none).yesterday's dreams were so graphic i cant bear to describe them.my poor wife is having to console me day after day before she goes to work,thank the god i dont believe in for her love and compassion or,well god knows where i'd be.day after day having to resist the "commands" in my battered soul to blow my ****ing head off.being raped as a child is like being baptised in blood.
so sorry this is awful for you to read,but even worse to know.
For you dear ASH :bighug1:,I hope your tormented mind finds peace one day soon ..Luv Sue xx:hugs:
thanks suzy,very kind words.
but again last night i woke up screaming "help" as i was led into a room
with four or five fireplaces.in those fireplaces were the petrified remains of
dead priests beckoning me to hell,their robes splayed out across the fireplace to make a contorted face with eyes cut out,in eternal agony.i woke up soaked in sweat and terrified to the core of my soul.im not sure how much more before i break into pieces.
staypositive
16-06-10, 11:16
Ash, I've read your posts before but I don't think I've ever replied. You seem like a good strong person, you've been through so much. You have your wife and children, I'm sure they are a godsend to you.
Keep strong, and I hope you can rest all these thoughts one day
Here, have a man hug :hugs:
Take care
ASH, I'm so sorry you are suffering like this :hugs: My best friend was abused as a child. She blocked it out for a long time but since it came to the surface she has been through hell. Can I ask what professional help you have had?
:bighug1:I cant say anything to you Ash except My HEART GOES OUT TO YOU ; .What you experienced is beyond words .Dreams are just subconcious thoughts and although terryfying and disturbing cant hurt you ,unless you let them ..You will keep going and get thru ,because you are loved and needed .You are a kind lovely person and are really stronger than you think .If can get thru what you have and still have love in your heart ,it proves that good overcomes evil ....I wonder if you have ever had Hypnotherapy to deal with the nightmares and evening probs you have hun ? If you havnt it would be a good thing for you to look into ..I wish you tons of love and hope you find some respite from your terrible pain .:bighug1:Sue xxxxxx
Hey Ash, I've come on especially to throw out what support I can. I don't exactly know what to say and I've no training in this except life and an analytical brain. I feel though you need to some help to deconstruct/decode this - like in that last batch of extreme dreams you talked about, which even included a really good one where you won!
Firstly my heart does go out to you. I've a fairly vivid imagination and we've all had trauma and pain and fears to draw on in empathising with each other, so I can just barely imagine what you go through each night.
So I'll start with a BIG HUG, and damn convention we'll blub as much as we like during it!
I'm going to throw out what I sense imaged in your dream. Feel free to use or discard these thoughts. I'm going with intuition as fast as I can type to avoid consciously colouring or editing it. Nothing I type is a reflection on the real you - this is the dreamscape we are dealing with.
nightmares
a scene of total wartime-like decay and destruction.
From your earlier dreams this seems to be part of your fixed images of horror and a hell like existence. This might draw on films you saw as a child, or 2nd world war imagery, or even (as a child of the 60s) if your parents were extra worried about nuclear war, etc. I might have expected a stronger connection with your school/church environment, unless those were to a degree tatty and rundown.
I'm guessing that many people's "nightmares" would use similar imagery. The alternatives being more horror movie like, or perhaps worse normality with added horror.
So at first glance I'd say this is not too significant, unless there's a connection I've not noticed. ie. a relative who often told you about the horrors of war (especially) when you were a child. Then I could imagine that horror/fear/emotion coupling it with the abuse you were suffering.
buildings collapsing around and on top of me,
As in the other dreams its a very active environment. Again perhaps owing more to war films/documentaries than anything else. I'm inclined to wonder if you were ever threatened with "joining the army to toughen you up"?
The situations in your dreams involve you being attacked quite specifically, you are not a bystander but a target. That I can only assume reflects your abuse. You also seem to lack any helpers which again (to me) reflects your real life situation as a child.
So this is pretty horrible and connects with all your childhood emotions; whether expressed at the time, or more likely (?) suppressed. Again this can't really surprise us given what you endured.
giving up and falling prey to hard drug use.
Despite what we know about you, and what you know about you, and what we (can even) see in your wife and children - you doubt yourself and have a huge expectation of failure. I think this is incredibly false, and were it anyone else I'd send you round to have a right go at them! As its yourself you kind of need to do the opposite. I'm sure you have had weaknesses as an adult, and times of failure, but I want to try and recognise that we all have. I and you should be immensely reassured that you are always fighting the badness in your dreams. Even in the dreamscape you don't imagine repeating your suffering. Credit is due even to your subconscious mind.
There is a message in this dream that you fear hard drugs. It would not be surprising if you did use stuff in the past to try and blot out the memories and dreams. Its actually healthy (to me) that even in dreamscape you don't adopt those as a "solution". Given your experiences its actually a bit sensible to be reminding yourself of the falsehood of those solutions, especially as that would make your family vulnerable.
feeling the despair of needing anaesthesia to numb the feelings.
This is really just a reflection of how hard this all weighs on you. HUG MATE. We need to think of some mechanisms that may help do this that avoid drink and drugs and avoid making it worse.
in the midst of it all an act of kindness towards a very ill child (who recovered)
I'm not quite sure if you witness this, or carry it out. I recall from your other dreams that you are often cast in the roll of defender or protector. This is not a bad roll to adopt. Indeed in your nightmares it is perhaps the only "healthy" roll.
I think this reflects the roll you have adopted to yourself in your own real life. And your efforts to provide security, love and protection to your children and wife. And the remarkable thing that you have been able to dissociate valid healthy emotions and relationships (and choices and efforts - like in the dream) from your damaging experiences and personal lack of support.
The rather real element in your dreams is that you recognise that you cannot change the entire world, but you can change the world (and provide protection) for those you choose to care about. So although your dreams can be damn hard work, they are about doing the right thing.
Like all of us with (mental) health issues, and even those without any, you doubtless fear letting down those you love. I recall some of that reflected in other dreams. To a degree that's (to me) natural and healthy. There wasn't too much of that here so we'll move on.
then the "death blow" that often comes in my dreams;seeing carriage after carriage of golden,cherub-like children,naked and curled up in cages
glowing with golden innocence,being transported off to their fate of rape and murder.
I recall a lot this kind of imagery in other dreams. The children are clearly idealised in every way, which obviously emphasises the horror, and reflects their blamelessness. To me this is clearly a reflection of your fear and compassion for others, and not just an echo of your own suffering. You clearly fear for all those who may be suffering as you did. So in a way although this is appalling it comes from a healthy attitude - you are not consigning those children to their fate, you suffer from the inability to help them.
The imagery itself also seems to draw on WW2 images, and concentration camps and stuff, while their fate is more personal to you. So the horrors in your memory and combining with the wider horrors of the world to be terrible. Its almost like you have too much empathy when asleep. Your mind is taking responsibility for saving/changing the world, or so it seems to me.
=== end of dream
I CANT TAKE THIS MUCH MORE night after night after night.
I'm hardly surprised mate. This must be like the horror version of an action movie, without the special abilities the heroes usually have. And having it every night my heart goes out to you.
yes ... i am angry.......i have to get my golden kids to school and nursery,
Yup - and to be honest you get more done every day than I do. So applause to you. At the moment I think you need some of this anger to avoid despair. I know that not PC to say, but sometimes we need something strong to sustain us.
i am terrified.all i want is drugs (i have none).
Facing these dreams every night, and suffering them must be very daunting. Even those of us with GAD who can loop through worries endlessly at bedtime at least only deal with real world imagery. HUG.
If you mean, naughty drugs then well done for avoiding them. If you mean meds then its possible that something might help, perhaps just something to drop you into better sleep. Its possible that with less interrupted and less traumatic restyou might improve. Bad sleep is very unhealthy.
yesterday's dreams were so graphic i cant bear to describe them.
Just hugs.
my poor wife is having to console me day after day before she goes to work,
You shared about this before. She is a treasure and I'm sure quite a few of us have days when we are very jealous. While she is happy to do it, then don't be afraid or ashamed to draw on her.
thank the god i dont believe in for her love and compassion or,well god knows where i'd be.
I'm going to pick up on something here as it didn't really fit in the dream bit. Its obvious from your dream imagery and language that although your experiences destroyed all the attempts of your upbringing to make you religious, a huge amount of the ideas, fear and guilt of what I'll call "bad christianity" did get wedged in your head. Even in that wow dream you had a month or two ago the power that helped you was quite spiritual.
This may be an area of your life you need to evolve your ideas in more, in order to defuse or influence your dreams. What I mean is that I have a sense that you are in a way believing in something, but its only the bad bits. Again I mean no offense in saying that. Its just this image I get. You've got the devil and his minions and those who suffer, but not (m)any positive elements. I don't mean you necessarily have to accept or reject christianity but your dreams are clearly being dominated by "half a religion" and I don't think thats too helpful.
Given other things you've mentioned you could even look at something more personal as a "faith" such as one of the forms of buddism or even just (say) neutral meditation or things like tai chi.
I'm only saying this because I feel like you are fighting the religious influences of your childhood as well as the abuse you suffered. Its not my place to tell you what to believe. Heck I don't even know what I believe myself.
===
Another thought that crosses my mind, would be to consider the concept of "lucid dreaming". Those who talk about it claim that its a form of dreaming where you remain more conscious control of events. I'm not 100% sure I believe in it, but some do. The only danger I could see is that lucid dreams are "usually" more vivid with more waking memory and if you got that bit without the control it might be a bit too much. The counter argument is that you are really at that level already but lack the control. If you wanted to look at it I could point you at some discussions.
I do know that when I was on high doses of Escitalopram my dreams were more vivid and I had more waking memory of them. More lucid, but without the control. So medications like A-Ds and presumably also our mental conditions can affect dreaming.
day after day having to resist the "commands" in my battered soul to blow my ****ing head off.being raped as a child is like being baptised in blood.
so sorry this is awful for you to read,but even worse to know.
That's OK mate. Sometimes we ask for help, sometimes we have to scream for it. Honestly its an honour to have "met" you. I think most of us would have curled up in a ball years ago, had we been in you place.
I hope some of what I've written at least helps to untangle and defuse what you've shared and what you suffer in the nightmares. I may be totally off base, and like I've said its not advice, its just some thoughts and opinions.
Take Care, and stay in touch
ASH....I want.as a mother and wife to give you a big HUG:bighug1:and thinking of you
Love Rhonda xxx
And Kevin they are lovely words xxx:)
thank you all for such kind words,and kev mate...i am speechless (in a good way) words cant express the kindness and intelligence you show me,
that was as a good as any therapy session! perhaps better.i need to express last nights horrors,but have to get the kids to school first.kev,my late father was a soldier in ww2 and would drunkenly spill his horrors over me,poor bloke,so bang on there mate!
love in oceans Adexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ok here goes,
last nites were sickening.they were set high up in a scary millionaires world,a delusional pseudo-religious setting where innocent people were being conned out of their lifes savings.the people who ran it were rich,dangerous and evil.the surroundings were like those of a monastry. but statues of sickenig evil rather than a humble christ.i was there,and i knew their game and was determined to undermine it so i got a few very clever biker friends to wreak havoc and expose them.There was a "chapel" but instead of peace and sanctuary,it symbolised the hidden industry of brainwashing and coercion.these nightmares,whilst not seeming as graphic as others,have an insidious "poisoned" undercurrant,and i wake up to physical sickness and a sense of being totally corrupted and the feeling that i will never be clean again.i have a tatse in my mouth that disgusts me,like a chemical foam residue.the background sense is one of deep contamination like radiation sickness.you cant see it but you are forever destined for hell.a psychologist and i have discussed the possibility that the "taste" is my senses recalling the substance used to subdue us during the abuse(i remember a weird tasting lemonade we were given)
i am close to trying to get drugs to obliterate this,not legal ones but
oblivion-bringing class A.i guess i wont do it,but if............now,having walked the joy that is my children to school,i am exhausted but wired.
i feel anything but innocent .i want to be compassionately executed.
anyone who gets through this read deserves a bloody medal,i feel sorry and ashamed that i need to spill it all out,but i do need to.
i have said this before but i would beg to kneel at the holy feet of Jesus,Buddha,Muhammed, and weep for the soul of every single abused child ever.
Thanks Ade, I worry sometimes about saying too much without knowing you well enough but you are an intelligent man and so I leave and trust you to take what you can from what I write and discard the rest. Remember its just another struggling fool writing. Like you I wish I could advise myself with same clear headedness I can lend to others.
I mainly wanted you to see that amidst the dreamscape horror you continue to be a force for good, and although that's hard (exp.del) work it is positive and worthwhile.
I had a poor partial memory of you saying about your dad's war time experiences before, but wasn't 100% sure I recalled correctly. So I guess that does fit with your dream imagery. So in part you are fighting his demons as well as your own.
As to your kind thoughts back, well that just makes it worth sitting up in the night to brave the forum and write you a considered reply. As I see it we sometimes (all too often) need more than a hug and a pat on the back. Compassion is good, but if you met someone lost in the forest it would not quite be enough.
Right then Ash, another drastic scenario. HUG. Had you considered becoming the new Steven King...? (irony)
And well done for getting the kids to school. More than I've managed at times. Its good that you shield them from your imagery BUT allow them the courtesy of expressing love and care for you, even when you are upset.
ok here goes,
last nites were sickening.
I'm not sure if you've edited your account but its not as demonic as many have been. Indeed the true horror may be in its closeness to the real world. No demons here, but worse powerful people! HUG.
they were set high up in a scary millionaires world,a delusional pseudo-religious setting where innocent people were being conned out of their lifes savings.the people who ran it were rich,dangerous and evil.
Now of course so much of this is a reflection of real world concerns. Banking and economic crises, the insulation of the super rich and the politicians. This may be worse imagery for you as your mentioned have strong left wing politics. The strength of the imagery could (guessing here) even reflect the fact that as an intelligent man you realise that even socialism has rarely (if ever) produced anything other than wolves in sheep's clothing. Both economic extremes being dominated by a powerful elite justifying themselves in different but equivalent ways.
So plenty of room for room for despair there! The one good thing as we've found a topic we might be able to disagree on, which will make a change if we ever truly meet! (I tend to be right of centre politically, but with I guess a left wing compassion).
The slightly scary thing is that there are those who truly believe that this is how the world is run. (On conspiracy websites and the underweb). Not just by cooperation and common goals, but as a deep routed (even demonic) conspiracy. I cannot say I believe it, but there are elements of truth to it. As I said above I think this is part of the horror of it all, it a twisted version of the real world. A pure fantasy is almost easier to ignore. HUGS. The fact that others share this imagery as a reality perhaps does tell us rather more about the human psyche and our natural fears of powerlessness.
As I said in the last dream posting, all we can really do is to aim to make our little bit of the world better. We are not powerless, but we are not powerful. We can improve our bit and lend what help and compassion and example we can outside that. (I guess that's a kind of non-evangelical quiet christian image or often a buddist one. Lead by example BUT without trying to lead.)
the surroundings were like those of a monastry. but statues of sickenig evil rather than a humble christ.
Its that religion & horror again. Your upbringing did a real job on your basic imagery. HUG. I'm struck again by the fact that you recognise and express the thought of a humble christ figure. Many of the religious/faithful find expressing his name(s) difficult or embarrassing. I myself have had times of believing in (an ideal) jesus even when I have definitely not had much faith in religion or churches or the other 95% of the bible.
I'm going a bit far here, but it maybe that you really do need to make some mental steps in exploring your spirituality (or lack of it). Religion was jammed into your life and psyche for many years and (I infer) used as a tool of abuse rather than of compassion. So any therapy that just focuses on the human and real world elements of your life, perhaps rather misses out this powerful element of your childhood. Most of us struggle with this in the modern world I think, but your situation may make it more important and more useful to gain some clarity here. Or I may be talking out of my bottom. You decide.
i was there,and i knew their game and was determined to undermine it so i got a few very clever biker friends to wreak havoc and expose them.
Well this is interesting. Again you are cast in a positive light. Don't knock that! And in this example you are influencing the plot even more (just not consciously).
There was a "chapel" but instead of peace and sanctuary,it symbolised the hidden industry of brainwashing and coercion.these nightmares,whilst not seeming as graphic as others,have an insidious "poisoned" undercurrant,and
As I guess I agree. The closeness to real world (in extremis) or of our worst real nightmares does make this harder to shrug off. As I would fight the imagery, I think your role of fighting and remaining different from the opposition is your protect here. Both in the dreamscape and on waking. You are wading through muck (spelt with an "S") but at the same time you are NOT accepting or adopting it. The poison is there but you are aware of it and its wrongness so it cannot infect you. That's how I see it.
i wake up to physical sickness and a sense of being totally corrupted and the feeling that i will never be clean again.i have a tatse in my mouth that disgusts me,like a chemical foam residue.the background sense is one of deep contamination like radiation sickness.you cant see it but you are forever destined for hell.a psychologist and i have discussed the possibility that the "taste" is my senses recalling the substance used to subdue us during the abuse(i remember a weird tasting lemonade we were given)
This kind of physical response is surely your body and mind experiencing the dream's emotions and dangers as "real". Like when most people wake from a sad or running away nightmare. So emotionally you have fought this battle with evil. You have witnessed these scenes.
You may be right about the taste. You mentioned before that sounds used to trigger flashbacks. This could kind of be the reverse, the emotions of the dreamscape replay the physical sensation. Its also fair to say (from personal experience) that even "just" a migraine or low blood sugar episode can produce very odd tastes in the mouth. The depth of your nightmare may be placing you in similar states hormonally.
i am close to trying to get drugs to obliterate this,not legal ones but
oblivion-bringing class A.
I can understand that temptation. HUG. The first problem with that is that you have kids and a wife. The second is that I fear you'd need more and more of it over time, and it would not be defusing the problem, just hiding it as (I think) you did for much of your life. The third is that you are better than that.
i guess i wont do it,but if............now,having walked the joy that is my children to school,i am exhausted but wired.
Good. If we do adopt a spiritual view, you are there for them, but they are also there for you.
i feel anything but innocent .i want to be compassionately executed.
Ah, but now I get a chance to be cross! You are not an innocent in what you've experienced (either in the dreamscape, your father's ramblings, or sadly your life). You are as I see it an innocent in what you have suffered and done (both in life and the dreamscape).
In thinking about your WW2 imagery: is a man who first breaks into a concentration camp to free them an innocent? Well not once he's been there, (he is no longer innocent through naivety or lack of knowing), but he is innocent of causing the harm, he is innocent of ignoring the suffering.
And as to your last line, well I just point you at "blossoming flowers" and "reasons to be cheerful". Keep fighting my friend.
anyone who gets through this read deserves a bloody medal,i feel sorry and ashamed that i need to spill it all out,but i do need to.
No mate. We only have to deal with this second hand and occasionally - you are beaten up my it all the time. Often we are too close to our own experiences to order them meaningfully. Heck, we can suffer that when just looking for our keys, with hard stuff its worse!
i have said this before but i would beg to kneel at the holy feet of Jesus,Buddha,Muhammed, and weep for the soul of every single abused child ever.
I'm not sure about now but in the longer term this may be helpful. And rather than weeping (which is largely ineffective in our world) I think maybe you could do something for or with children's abuse charities. Until your own head is clearer perhaps something emotionally simple like fund raising, but in the long term even counseling or support. Then you will again be making a difference in the small part of the world you can reach.
Take Care Mate.
thanks again kev,if i may disagree with one point,i need to weep into the hope of goodness,it clears out much pain.you are incredibly accurate in much of your analysis,and i am already a fundraiser for childline and the nspcc!
your efforts are appreciated so very much mate thank you so much xxx ade xx
Its ok Ash, I'm not "down on" weeping in the general sense. Certainly for our own lives and those around us it may be very necessary and appropriate. I meant in the context of weeping as it were for the unknown child. Well done with the fund raising, I hope it provides some sense of helping others get help sooner.
more,but y'know what i cant be ****ing bothered to go through even describing them,lets just say..loss,being trapped in an endless circle
false dawns of hope,brief tragic sunlight,and a weight to carry that is like concrete crushing the skull
tomorrow is my beautiful wifes birthday,thats what i am thinking of today,our trip out with the girls to blackpool pleasure beach where i stupidly made an adrenalin-fuelled bet that i would go on the "infusion" ride.doh! our family days out are bliss.again this morning we said nothing,just an acknowledgement that the nightmares had attacked me again and a long warm sexy cuddle and gentle kiss,wrapped in her arms is like being emersed in a healing pool of clear blue holy water.beautiful she is,****ing beautiful my wife.http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?pid=151710&id=1768198168
have managed to get the girls to school and am planning for tomorrows day out damn you *******s you will not get the better of me,i am loved,as one one psychologist said"they scarred your mind,body and soul but somehow they got nowhere near your heart" if that is so,i repeat,game over i win .check out the link pic of my wife,previous reply....see what i mean? look at the love in that girls eyes,she is mine:yahoo:
Hey Ash, I am sad though not surprised that your dream torment continues. Its been around a long time, so it would be remarkable if it went abruptly, although I guess it could as the mind is a weird thing. HUGS.
Good luck with the rides. I loved them in my twenties and find them appalling now! Look at it this way it gives you another excuse to hang on tight to your three lovelies. :)
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