View Full Version : Is this recovery? DARE I hope?
Been 3 weeks since I had to come off the Mirtazapine-spent about the best part of that trying (unsuccessfully) to find another med to aid me. Am now on 7.5mg Mirt at night which replaces the anxiety in the morning with a grogginess/slight lethargy which is to my mind preferable.
The days after the withdrawal from the Mirtazapine were every bit as hellish as I'd been led to expect, won't go into them again but really felt as anxious/depressed as I had at the onset of this latest episode in about October last year.
Nevertheless somehow I have managed to keep myself in at work, and see my kids at (almost) the normal times recently. It has been bloody hard, and I am not saying there are still not moments of EXTREME doubt and anxiety, but there must be some inner strength in there which has kept me going. If I WAS going to implode I feel it would have happened by now.
But as with all of us there is a natural caution to my feelings of optimism-only those who have been through the nightmare that is depression/anxiety knows the true fear of it returning with a vengeance-I feel stronger however than I did and more "ready" for what the depression will try to do to me, almost a kind of "Bring it on, I know you, and I will meet you head on" mentality.
I never seriously contemplated doing anything to myself, but it is a fact that at it's height I really did wonder if it was worth going on, and that only the thought of what it would do to my kids stopped me from giving up the fight.
I am not kidding myself that life is perfect or that I don't have bad moments-I do-and that old cliche "one day at a time" has never been so true than it is for the depressed and anxious amongst us. It may be 5 months away but if I can keep myself in the workplace, seeing my kids regularly, and most importantly come through the dark days of winter relatively unscathed and into 2011 in better shape than a year before then I might truly believe I have turned the "metaphorical corner". Until then the doubts will always be there.
But at 45 I am finally I think beginning to accept myself with all my faults but also my good points, learning that it isn't a crime to give yourself praise on occasion, and if not letting the past go exactly then accepting it and realising that sadness is a part of life too and that one SHOULD embrace it and not avoid it if progress is to be made. To quote a James song that I like I think I finally might "know what I'm here for" and be able to live in the present at long last.
I know this is a rant but I offer it as hope and comfort to others on this forum who are suffering from this dread illness that there is light at the end of the tunnel-I felt as low as is possible without paying the ultimate price back at end of last year beginning of this one-I now look forward cautiously to a future with my kids and friends which will be better than before because of the lessons my depression has taught me. I am not there yet-may never be fully-it is a continuing journey but it IS worth the effort.
I love music and have many favourite songs but the words of one (again) by James come to mind (and I don't have the lyrics in front of me so apologies if I misquote)
Those who feel the breath of sadness sit down next to me,
Those who feel they're touched by madness sit down next to me,
Those who find themselves ridiculous sit down next to me,
In love, in pain, in fear and hate, in love, in pain in fear and hate...
It isn't my favourite of theirs but right now the lyrics seem to say it all for me.
To those who feel the same way I say keep fighting-you can find your path out of this.
I will keep posting 1/ because I am still enough of a pessimist to know I might go back the way and 2/ because this is a great site with so many good people on it all seeking the answers as I am.
Good luck to everybody and if I have cured anybody's insomnia with this lengthy diatribe then I have served a purpose. Humour too is so important my friends....
Gordon
ElizabethJane
04-07-10, 15:22
Dear Gordon big (((hugs)) for getting this far on the road to recovery from anxiety and depression. There will be set backs and there will be times when you will wonder whether it will be worth carrying on. The important things to remember are that you are worth fighting for and worth carrying on for. Your family and your children will hopefully support you as much as they can. Here on NMP we will help support you and guide you through the darkness of depression. There are no easy answers and you might become ill again who knows. When I first become ill I thought that if I got married/had a baby / got a certain job I would never become ill/need treatment/need drugs again. You will get well again and I applaud your efforts and well done with your journey so far. EJ
suzannacorfu
04-07-10, 15:26
Gordon, a really moving post! I am so pleased that you appear to have found some peace. I know exactly where you are coming from. Relapsing is another of our "anticipatory" fears! The bloody "What if..."
If there are any good times then I agree we should enjoy it for what it is: a good time. Sadness is a part of life and I too am learning that being sad and even down does not automatically mean that "AAAAA I AM RELAPSING!!". It just means that I am feeling down. If anything the forcing yourself to try and feel happy when you are sad causes more stress.
I am so proud of you having gone through all this and stayed in work and kept close to your kids. You are seriously a person worth knowing! I think that you too should be proud of yourself. What you have done (what we all do) is tough. Beating up on ourselves is how we got here!
Suz
YvonneBelle
04-07-10, 15:47
But at 45 I am finally I think beginning to accept myself with all my faults but also my good points, learning that it isn't a crime to give yourself praise on occasion, and if not letting the past go exactly then accepting it and realising that sadness is a part of life too and that one SHOULD embrace it and not avoid it if progress is to be made.Hi Gordon,
I'm only a couple of years behind and what you say here struck me the most. I think we all have the tendency to tell ourselves off to varying degrees instead of giving credit where credit is due as we would a friend. Nobody is perfect! As for letting the past go... that is very hard indeed if you still have emotions invested there.
Sadness is a part of life and we can't always have what we want but it's true that progress can still be made. For many years I've had feelings for someone I can't be with and it's caused a great deal of hurt, upset and anguish over the years because I've found it so difficult to let go of these feelings and move on. I sometimes think of all the parents who have ever lost children, wives who've lost husbands and vice-versa and think how terrible their pain must be. But your pain is your pain after all and you can't always measure it up against someone else's.
Over time, I've tried very hard to accept my situation and I'm not quite there yet but I do have a sense that progress is being made. It might not be obvious from day to day but the more time that passes, the more perspective I seem to have. Close up I just couldn't see the bigger picture and was totally immersed in all of these big emotions that I found really overwhelming. They sometimes re-surface but mostly I have them under wraps as part of my heart's history book.
I hope things continue to improve for you. Even though I'm taking Citalopram and feel so much better I'm under no illusion that life is going to quit throwing me challenges. I just think I'll be slightly better equipped to deal with them until the time comes when I feel strong enough to wean myself off and back into some kind of normality.
Sounds like you've been battling through a long time but from the sound of your post, some (cautious) positive thinking is doing you good. Go ahead and think positively!! It certainly can't do you any harm and it won't jinx you.
Yvonne :)
Thanks to all who have replied so far with the kind comments-to EJ whose responses to my posts have been such a support to me and to Yvonne and Suzanna too-I know there will be bumps along the way and am under no illusions as to the future difficulties I may face-my attitude to meds is that at the moment I am fine on the small dose I am taking-however if I need more at a future point then I will accept it without being too hard on myself.
It's true what you all say-we can only enjoy the good moments when they come and (Try to) keep a sense of perspective on the bad ones when they rear their ugly head. Are we ever "cured"? I don't know the answer to that one guess I just feel there is a greater resilience within me at the moment which hopefully will stand me in good stead. That "What if" is a bu**er though isn't it?!
This site as I have said before has been a real boon for me-whether it has been to just sound off, to pass on experience and support or to seek answers from fellow sufferers it has helped enormously to know I am not alone in this battle.
I do have regrets from the past obviously and there are things I wish I could have done differently but anyone I hurt it was not a conscious thing-I get the impression there are others with these same items of "baggage" but we HAVE to forgive ourselves eventually don't we? And yes our pain is OUR pain-my experiences are nowhere near as traumatic as many others but yet the end result is a prison of depression which we can only keep trying to get out of.
Many thanks for your replies and support.
G
Gordon- this is a really moving and eloquent post. I really admire the way you can express yourself, and the strength of character that comes through in your words. For me, what you say about accepting yourself is absolutely fundamental to coming to terms with, and moving through, depression. And I think the 'accepting' bit is key- I don't think its necessarily possible for us to 'love ourselves' as many of the self-help books and websites I've looked at over the years proclaim. To me, the key is to able to sit in our own skins and embrace all that we are, but I know its easier said that than done. I'd really like to hear more about how you've begun to accept yourself for who you are, and whats helped you to progress.
Reason I'm so interested in this is that its only in the past year that I've finally begun to look at, and come to terms, with the real me. And I'm finding it really bloody hard as a part of me still wants to run away from who I am and carry on behaving in ways, and holding beliefs, that aren't in my best interest. Sorry if this all sounds a bit vague- I'm not normally one for quotes or affirmations but I think the following by Virginia Satir really captures what I'm babbling on about:
I am Me. In all the world, there is no one else exactly like me. Everything that comes out of me is authentically mine, because I alone chose it — I own everything about me: my body, my feelings, my mouth, my voice, all my actions, whether they be to others or myself. I own my fantasies, my dreams, my hopes, my fears. I own my triumphs and successes, all my failures and mistakes.
Because I own all of me, I can become intimately acquainted with me. By so doing, I can love me and be friendly with all my parts. I know there are aspects about myself that puzzle me, and other aspects that I do not know — but as long as I am friendly and loving to myself, I can courageously and hopefully look for solutions to the puzzles and ways to find out more about me.
However I look and sound, whatever I say and do, and whatever I think and feel at a given moment in time is authentically me. If later some parts of how I looked, sounded, thought, and felt turn out to be unfitting, I can discard that which is unfitting, keep the rest, and invent something new for that which I discarded. I can see, hear, feel, think, say, and do. I have the tools to survive, to be close to others, to be productive, and to make sense and order out of the world of people and things outside of me. I own me, and therefore, I can engineer me. I am me, and I am Okay.
Anyway, your posting inspired me to wibble on like this, so you've only got yourself to blame ! Seriously though, anyone who can write with the clarity and honesty that you can deserves to be happy. So you've got me rooting for you. Nick
suzannacorfu
04-07-10, 17:39
Gordon, you said the prison of depression which is a good term. The one thing that I had a hard time realising is that yes depression IS a prison but it's a prison with open doors and we are the only guards on watch! It seems to me that it should be quite easy for me to slip past me when I'm not looking and reach freedom right? I mean, I MUST sleep at some point? Well then there's my chance!! So how about the next time (if there IS a next time) we put ourselves back into prison we try bribing the guard? Maybe befriending him/her might work? Who knows: maybe he/she might even help us "escape".
Suz
To Nick-thank you for the kind comments. Eloquent-well I don't know about that but I do find it easier writing down my thoughts sometimes as I can then read it back and implant it in the old grey matter. I am sure like many others on here I am guilty of over-analysis at times but if I am it is simply to try to find out about myself and retain the qualities which I deem to be beneficial and discard those which are dragging me down. Yes I am aware that is a (VERY) paraphrased version of the quote you mentioned in your post but what a true quote it is-it really made sense to me-I agree with you Nick that the whole "loving oneself" stuff in self help books/websites does not truly resonate with me (maybe it's a male thing?!) but ACCEPTING oneself and being comfortable in one's own skin-now THAT is something worth pursuing. Any more usage of "one" and I'll be getting invited to Buck House!! And I ain't no Monarchist!!
As for why I am slowly turning around my thinking well counselling has helped-my sessions have tended to be me talking (no surprise there!) with occasional interjections by the counsellor when an important point has to be made-but I have emerged from each session sometimes confused but usually with something new to consider. Mainly though (and I know it sounds a bit trite and simplistic) but I think I just got sheer FED UP of constantly berating myself and emotionally beating myself up and just decided to Hell with it time for a new way of looking at this-not saying it's easy mind!! It is a constant process.
Suz-I cannot lay claim to credit for the prison analogy-it has been used by many before me and particularly in Dorothy Rowe's excellent book "Depression-the way out of your prison" which I heartily recommend. It is NOT an easy read and requires a lot from it's reader but it is worth persevering with as most of what she says (to me) makes a lot of sense-just don't go buying it expecting an easy ride-it isn't there! "Beyond Fear" is also worth a read too, though many of the points in each book overlap.
But you are right Suz-WE are our own jailors-to wake up in the morning and be blissfully unaware of anything happening outside cos your mind is full of dread and fear isn't a good place to be. Maybe it is time to metaphorically "cosh" that bloody guard and let ourselves out into the open whatever it entails.
I do go on I know but it really helps.
Thanks again
G
suzannacorfu
04-07-10, 20:15
Yes Dorothy Rowe is amazing. I have read ALL of her books. I adore her generosity. Gordon one note: please stop apologising for "going on". Surely the fact that we are here discussing this at length with you should make you realise that you are worth listening to!!!!! No-one is forcing us to read your posts!!! LOL
Suz
suzannacorfu
04-07-10, 20:16
Sorry if that sounded weird. I onlyu mentioned it because I too was always apologising for existing!! Now I ramble and "go on"! I reckon that if someone sits there reading it then that's their own damn fault!!!
Suz
YvonneBelle
04-07-10, 20:21
I own me, and therefore, I can engineer me.
I'm going to pinch that excellent thought! I'm currently re-engineering myself at the gym. :)
Yes, great post. Gets people thinking and talking and that's what it's all about.
The prison of depression. Imagine peeking through the bars of a jail door. The bars are just wide enough to slip an arm through. Imagine a large key in the lock of the door (that you can't see and are unaware of) with a huge round metal key ring attached. Imagine that you could easily slip your arm through and reach the key if only you knew it was there and realised you could.
I think as humans we are much more powerful than we realise. Imagine what great feats have been achieved by individuals but also by the collective. Who could design a watch from scratch? Think of how the pyramids got built. Imagine designing the first telescope and exploring space when most of the rest of the world thought that the moon orbited the earth purely for earth's own entertainment?!
I sometimes think of these things and wonder about the power of the human mind when it comes to healing. Some of what happens is purely automatic (like sending hormones around the body) but we can think our thoughts as we like. There is some element of choice there. Our brains might be vulnerable to interference and zigzags but we can try and filter out noise and we can try and focus and concentrate better.
In some respects, I think we intuitively know what's best for us, but during depression we get stuffed with cotton wool and horse hair which in turn creates an internal fog which means we can lose our sense of clarity and direction. But if you can imagine a huge wind machine blowing through you and dispersing all of the gunk in your system - then what you are left with is still you. I personally don't think the true essence of you changes because you are depressed. I think it just means we need to work that little bit harder to realise why we are depressed and then get rid of that unecessary gunk that has fogged our brains ready for a new chapter in our lives.
That's how it feels for me at the moment. I'm having a big clear out both physically and metaphorically. I think it's a pretty healthy thing to do but sometimes if we don't do it soon enough.... our bodies go on strike and wave a red flag until we sit up, take notice and do something about it.
Suz-nothing weird about it-you are quite right. No-one has to read if they don't want to-the fact that people like yourself have and have taken something from it and seen fit to reply is great. I am glad to be part of such an interesting debate and exchange of views.
Yvonne-a "clearout"-yeah I reckon that's a pretty damn good analogy-we ARE essentially the same underneath the "fog" but it is clearing that out to leave the "real" us that is so important. There is a helluva lot of junk as you put it but disposing of it a bit at a time is the answer.
Thanks for your replies and I won't apologise again for "going on"-if I hadn't I wouldn't have had such a feeling of support and understanding.
Got work tomorrow so going to get some sleep but keep posting and continuing on your own path to freeing yourselves from depression and anxiety.
G
I'm just catching up with all of your stimulating posts this morning. There's so much I want to say, but as my brain is pretty foggy this morning, so you might have to excuse some pretty random thoughts.
Yvonne- I couldn't agree with you more, our minds are powerful tools that we have at our disposal. And I'm 100% convinced that we do know what is intuitively good for us. As you say, what happens with depression is that it muddies the waters of our minds (excuse awful analogy !), creating confusion and lots of questions, doubts and indeed negative thinking where before there was clarity. And I think this is where I struggle- been a fairly typical anal male (!), I'm always searching for clarity in the world (black\white), so I basically panic when a depression descends and want it to go away ASAP. In fact, if I'm being honest, the older I've got, the more impatient I get when I do get down. So the whole embracing\accepting depression is somthing I really struggle with. Which I thing brings me back to the sitting in your skin point.
I've been seeing a really excellent CBT counsellor off and on (more off) for past 10 years. One thing thats always stuck in my mind is how she sees these times as opportunities to grow and learn more about ourselves. She almost presents it as sometimes you have to go through these horrible times to come to terms with yourself, if that makes any sense.
Gordon- I still think you are the man ! I don't think I've ever come across anyone who seems to capture exactly how my brain\mind seem to be working too. And what you say about:
but I think I just got sheer FED UP of constantly berating myself and emotionally beating myself up and just decided to Hell with it time for a new way of looking at this-not saying it's easy mind!!
....is exactly where I'm at- just struggling with the new way of looking bit !
To me though, it all boils down to squaring up to the causes of us feeling low, and by this I mean truly facing up to those inner fears without then beating ourselves up for having them, or feeling disgusted\embarassed for feeling or behaving that way. Its all about coming to terms with, and accepting 'those things that sometimes puzzle us about ourselves' as Virginia Satir says.
OK, enough pseudo philosophising (is this a word ?!). One thing I would really like your views on- I've already said that I do feel that as I've got older, I 'give up' more easily when I get low in that I'm quicker to go off work, panic, and look to meds\counselling to help me through. Or, is it just that the stuff I'm coming to terms with is deeper and more complex (i.e. the root causes not the symptoms) which is why I 'blow' more quickly as they seem much harder to deal with. Does this make sense to anyone ?
Thanks for listening
Nick
YvonneBelle
05-07-10, 10:45
One thing I would really like your views on- I've already said that I do feel that as I've got older, I 'give up' more easily when I get low in that I'm quicker to go off work, panic, and look to meds\counselling to help me through. Or, is it just that the stuff I'm coming to terms with is deeper and more complex (i.e. the root causes not the symptoms) which is why I 'blow' more quickly as they seem much harder to deal with. Does this make sense to anyone ?Yes Nick it does. I'm the same. I've dealt with loads without meds... r'ship breakdowns, jobs going pear shaped, relocating (several times), even moving country with disastrous results but recently, I've started a job that I haven't really taken to and hasn't been going too well and the result? Complete and utter meltown!! I DO strongly believe a lot of things have stacked up over time and where at one time I would have simply soldiered through, I've reached a point where I just feel like throwing my toys out the pram, stamping my feet and having a really good wail about it!!!!! I just haven't got the patience to put myself through weeks of tiredness, depression, wondering what to do, feeling bad about myself, feeling lonely and unsupported.... etc. etc.
So yes, I can relate to being older and snapping much more quickly than I used to.
Perhaps deep down you want to break the whole dam even though you know it might be mega. Rather than having the occasional breach which then simply gets plugged. The overall effect is that we feel plastered up and full of cracks just waiting for the lot to come crashing down one day. (Sorry for all the metaphorical thinking but that's what I do to help myself draw a picture of how I feel.)
Yvonne
Nick, Yvonne-we are on the same wavelength!
Is it more difficult to cope as we get older? Yes, too right, because we have unfortunately had more life experience and learned that life has a habit of kicking us in the teeth and then returning for a second go (and again, and again...).
I have been hesitant to go into too much detail as to my own past experiences which have led me to this point, one because there is always people far worse off and two because the nature of this website is that it can be assumed fairly readily that most on here have had more than a few of life's knocks. Yvonne has touched on some of hers, for what it's worth in last 8 years both my parents have died, my marriage broke up, I had to move away from my children and have had about 4 different homes in as many years. Like Yvonne I have had spells on meds and spells off, and have "coped" (or not coped) with each of these events to varying degrees.
But the sum total of it all is that each different event drags you down further and further into an abyss of depression and despair-like Yvonne I have often wanted to "throw my toys out the pram" but it is exhausting and at some point we HAVE to try to come to terms with it all, difficult though it is. So having taken a long time to get there Nick I agree totally with Yvonne on this one-it is ENTIRELY NATURAL that it gets more, not less, difficult to deal with the crap that life throws at us as we get older.
It saddens me that although I have a reasonable manager and assistant manager in my workplace who have been reasonably tolerant of my absences etc... I can see so clearly in their expressions that they simply do not understand how I am feeling or why? This shouldn't be so surprising-they are both about half my age with nothing like the experiences of loss etc... that I have. That is not meant to be self-pitying, simply a statement of fact. Perhaps I just no longer care whether they get it or not anymore...
Nick I believe your CBT counsellor has a point-it is trying to teach us something and we can learn from depression. Unfortunately I think one of the lessons it is trying to drum into me is that I am in the wrong job and have been for some time.Having had access to rural mental health professionals recently it is apparent to me how much I wish I was doing something like that and not the meaningless corporate slog I am currently enduring-but realising that and giving up a (comfortable-ish) salary and future pension is quite another matter. If I was retired early through ill health (not an impossibilty) there are volunteering opportunities nearby with the local mental health centre which could eventually lead to a salaried job-believe me I am giving it a lot of thought. I certainly have the qualifications!!
Yvonne- you describe beautifully the result of all these traumas-meltdown! Couldn't have put it better. Depressed, lonely, wondering what the hell to do? Sounds awfully familiar to me...
It IS like waiting for a dam to break and yes I think it could all come crashing down sooner rather than later. But the question is how do we rebuild something better and more resilient?
If either of you have the answer to that please let me know cos that's the biggie I'm still struggling with.
All the best
Gordon
YvonneBelle
07-07-10, 15:38
It saddens me that although I have a reasonable manager and assistant manager in my workplace who have been reasonably tolerant of my absences etc... I can see so clearly in their expressions that they simply do not understand how I am feeling or why? This shouldn't be so surprising-they are both about half my age with nothing like the experiences of loss etc...I feel the same way. A lot of the people I've been working with lately are 20s/30s and think that beer/pub is the answer to everything. Birthday? Pub. Friday? Pub. None of them realise or probably give a damn about what's happening to me now. I'm just off sick. My manager probably wants to know whether or not I'll be back and if not how soon I'll be able to return my laptop and how soon they can start recruiting for my replacement. I am probably being a major nuisance and viewing it from the employer's perspective, well yes, the situation is not ideal.
Unfortunately I think one of the lessons it is trying to drum into me is that I am in the wrong job and have been for some time.Ditto!
Did you try the personality type quiz? I came out as INFJ - interesting indeed! Job suggestions were writer, teacher, counsellor.
I can understand you being hesitant about losing salary and benefits but if you are in the wrong career for your personality then I think it can eat away at you and eventually grind you down. Imagine what it would be like to comfortably retire only to spend your days regretting your whole career and wishing you had followed your dreams instead? Loads of people switch careers in their 40s. Look at J. K. Rowling! This is what I'm doing right now. I'm literally at the fork in the road looking left and right.
Yvonne- you describe beautifully the result of all these traumas-meltdown! Couldn't have put it better. Depressed, lonely, wondering what the hell to do? Sounds awfully familiar to me...Yes. Coping with adversity is one thing. Kicking a man when he's down is another. Everyone has a line - a threshold beyond which they reach breaking point. It's not a weakness it's purely a physical response to too much stress. Your body then triggers an internal barometer which (for your own protection) flares up to warn you that something is amiss and too many things have stacked up against you. Somebody recently said to me 'even superman gets help' and they were right. You can't do everything alone. Sometimes life deals you a series of blows and you start to think hang on, this is a bit unfair... why me? However, once you start digging and exploring you realise it's not just you and that others are prepared to understand and to help. It's then about building coping strategies and taking action.
My belief is that when things appear to keep going wrong or are extremely difficult, it could be a sign that you are on the wrong path. When doors start opening effortlessly for you then these are the signals to keep walking through those doors even if they take you in a whole new direction.
But the question is how do we rebuild something better and more resilient?One brick at a time and with some good cement. :D
If the tower is wobbling then sometimes the best (and the safest) thing to do is demolish it and start again from scratch. There might only be rubble initially but once you start re-building, the end result is likely to be much better than it was before. You might even stand back one day and surprise yourself with how far you have come and what you have achieved.
It is possible!! I truly believe that.
I read a book by Paul McKenna recently and in it he asks you to consider your Big Dream.
He helps you to understand this by posing three key questions:
The most important things in the world to me are:
one
two
three
four
five
If I could be, do and have anything in the world, I would...
[Sum it up in a paragraph]
and finally,
I will know when I am succeeding when:
[Sum it up in a paragraph]
It's a very useful exercise to do privately as a way of understanding what your Big Dream is and how you'll recognise when you're succeeding.
Thing Big!! :)
Yvonne
Hi Yvonne
WOW!! Little did I know what I'd started with this thread but I'm glad I did-before I get on to addressing some of the points you made can I ask you where the Personality Type Quiz is that you refer to-I take it on the NMP site?-I'd be very interested in seeing what it makes of me!!
Taking your points one at a time- The Job- yeah I agree with you that most people in their 20's/30's reckon drinking and the pub are the answer to everything-I can't be too hypocritical here though-I was like that myself at that age (up to a point). That was before life came and gave me a right good kick up the arse though. I've now been teetotal 10 years, having realised, after many years of denial, that depression and alcohol don't mix-well not for me anyway.
I maybe (unintentionally) gave a slightly misleading impression of my job-it is very much at the low end of the corporate scale (that's not being falsely modest, just a fact), but it DOES pay enough for me to get by (just) and meet my commitments to the kids etc... Why do I not just jack it in? Answer in last sentence there-my children. They have been through a lot of upheaval with my divorce etc.. and don't feel like sitting down to explain that dad is having to downsize and move (again)-having said that I appreciate that knocking my pan in trying to maintain what I've got may lead to it all being academic anyway (if I go under through the pressure). And yes I agree with you-painful and hellish as our pain is to us it IS just another absence to our employers-and yes I am pragmatic enough to partly understand their point of view.
Notwithstanding all of the above I AM ONLY 45, I have been guilty of thinking myself old before my time (45 going on 65 etc...) easy to do in this current age when unless you are 20 and gorgeous/devastatingly handsome (I'm neither) then you may as well go and **** off as far as many are concerned. Nevertheless my viewpoint is GRADUALLY changing and I am beginning to think that maybe it wouldn't be so bad to take that BIG STEP-comes as quite a surprise to me to say this but I am no dummy and there MUST be something out there I could lend my talents to-I am sure that applies to you also.
Your synopsis of life and the "line" being crossed by too many knocks is very accurate-I guess we are roughly in the same place here having come through the "toys out the pram" stage and now trying to establish coping mechanisms and learning whatever it is it is all seeking to teach us.
I believe(and this I know is a strange thing to say coming from a depressive) that there is EVEN YET a fundamental optimism within me that this is all for a purpose and that I CAN emerge from it stronger, happier and more accepting of who I am. MY BIG DREAM? Haven't quite worked that out yet but I love the written word (really?!) and actually wanted to be a journalist when I was younger-don't know about that now but something in the therapy/counselling line does appeal because of my own experiences.
I DON'T REGRET the way my life has gone-yes there has been a helluva lot of crap but to regret it would suggest I regret my children and my friends and that is anything but the case.
I take heart from your comments and hope that you too come out of this surer and stronger and manage to achieve your goals. I certainly believe from your postings on here that you have the inner strength to do so.
Onward and UPward
G :)
YvonneBelle
07-07-10, 22:37
Hi Gordon,
Here's the link as first posted by Mya about personality types.
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp
Let us know.
I'll wager you come out similar to me!
Yvonne :)
Yvonne
ESFJ
So 50% of me is similar!!
Quite an interesting exercise! I tried not to overanalyse my answers and go for my gut instinct on each one.
Thanks for passing it on
G
YvonneBelle
07-07-10, 22:49
Why do I not just jack it in? Answer in last sentence there-my children.Are your kids old enough to talk about this with you and maybe help you? If they understood why you wanted to change careers and how you were worried about continuing to support them then they might even surprise you with their wisdom and understanding.
Kids sometimes know their parents better than their parents realise. I don't have kids but I know this from being a kid myself (once). I can read both parents like a book and if I thought they were somehow sacrificing their own happiness for me I'd be a bit sad. I'd much rather them try to be happy for themselves and in some respects be more of a fun, relaxed parent than always wearing a worry line on my behalf.
That said, I think it's very natural and perfectly understandable for a dad to want to provide for his kids! :yesyes:
BUT (I'm assuming) they would also like their daddy to be happy?
Yvonne
Hi Yvonne
Possibly they are-particularly my eldest who is 12, I maybe don't give them enough credit for their maturity sometimes. It is certainly something I will think about-I think on balance a happier father in a job he enjoys rather than one slogging it out in a job he gets little or no satisfaction from IS preferable and would lead to a more relaxing environment for the 3 of us.
It ain't easy being a divorced dad and trying to get it all right-but this may be the biggest decision of all and IF I decide to do something I would definitely include them in that decision and take on board their input.
Gordon
suzannacorfu
07-07-10, 23:16
Gordon if it's any consolation at all I changed careers at 48. From hotel management to Healthcare recruitment. I was a complete beginner at this. Small fish in a big pond after being a big fish in a little pond. I did this while in the midst of Panic Attacks and aftermath of depression AND agoraphobic. I moved towns at the same time. Completely alone. I had to fly to London from Greece for an interview (I hadn't been interviewed in 20 years!!!) and I hadn't flown in 12 years! Did all that. Made a great success of new career which I LOVE and now have my own business which is doing well. And yes I still put off going to the supermarket... What can I say? A trembling wreck at the checkout IF I manage to stay in the line!
The point is: GO FOR IT
Everyone around you will benefit from a more balanced, "happier" Gordon. A richer Gordon does no-one any good. least of all you.
That doesn't mean you have to do it all tomorrow. I think you may find that solidifying the plan, planning your moves and then taking the steps will help you overcome a lot of pain. Just get an image of yourself where you would like to be and work towards it. Opportunities will come along once you solidify the image and the steps will become simple. I had the image of me working from home. Had NO IDEA what I could do. Just kept visualizing the image and within 18 months I had done it.
Suz
YvonneBelle
07-07-10, 23:43
Hi Suz,
I like your idea of imagining yourself doing something.
I keep having an image of myself working in the upper part of a barn conversion somewhere in rural UK using a PC at my leisure writing and/or designing something.
Outside there are chickens, horses... people and maybe some kiddies running around but I'm not stressed. It's just my space and I can come and go as I please - outside or in. :)
It's great to visualise!!
Congrats with your career change - wow. Gives me hope!
Good luck Gordon, these things start with a seed and then grow...
suzannacorfu
07-07-10, 23:53
Yvonne everything starts with an image! Yours is the same as mine but my house was in France! I'm still in Greece but France is still there in my mind and I'm working towards it!
It is unbelievable how many opportunities pass in front of us every day but we don't see them or they appear to be "out of context" when we don't have an image!
Keep yours strong, picture it every day. I am no "new-age" happy Polyanna I assure you! I wouldn't even say I am an optimist! I do however believe in the power of images (please note I didn't say willpower as I have none!!!lol). I think that our minds open when we have a goal to work towards and we see opportunities and even threats better. We also feel more "in control" when we are working towards our image.
Listen, if I can do it then you can too! I'm here for you if you want to bounce any ideas off me!
Suz
Yvonne/Suz
Firstly Yvonne due to my incompetence in all things computers I do not have your ESFJ career options file that I know you tried to send me-perhaps a brief outline of what it said would be useful-or even if you can pop it in as a link in a response thread as you did the quiz-I would be VERY interested to see what it says-although perhaps a career in IT is out if I can't even open a simple file!!
Anyways, incompetence on computers aside, I found both your posts interesting. Suz-I admire you for being able to launch into a new career whilst in the throes of depression/anxiety. My problem is geographical as I do not wish to have to move far from the children (one of the few plus points of the job I have is that I live and work in the same town as my kids-that is VERY important to me. Also I haven't been to an interview since I got my present job 28 years ago!! So a pretty daunting prospect!!
I do agree that to "jump in" head first would be foolish-but you are right no harm in seeking out the info/advice I require to move forward.
As for an image or visualisation it's all a bit vague at the moment-working from home does appeal, all I have at the moment other than that is perhaps something in the "caring" services or a job which makes use of any talents I have with the written word. But I'll work on making that image a bit clearer!! Certainly NOT the finance industry again...
Suz your story certainly provides me with hope and inspiration as it did for Yvonne-am going away to have a wee (not too deep it's been a hard day) think about my next move.
Thanks again
Gordon
suzannacorfu
08-07-10, 20:04
Gordon, the thing with your image is that it's YOUR image! Your Best-Case-Scenario! So let your imagination run riot, don't hinder it with thoughts of interviews, "what could I do's" etc.
Just go for the full-on-in-your-face BEST scenario for you and you'll be amazed at what will come along I promise you! I was there where you are now and I had absolutely NO idea what I could do. But I just kept the image. Not because I am a New Age, positive thinking weirdo! Just because at that time that image was the ONLY thing that didn't make me feel like total crap!
I was laughing inside all through the interview thinking "Yeah right, I KNOW what the next question is so bring it on!" (at the same time I was also trying to not faint/have heart attack since I was in a hotel lounge in London and totally agoraphobic! When I left I had to sit in the hotel loo for 25 minutes to bring myself down!!).
Suz
Hi Suz
I take your point-just difficult for somebody like me who is naturally quite restrained in my approach to let my imagination run riot-but I will give it a go. If I am to have a better, brighter future then I have to break free of the limitations that have been imposed upon me by others (and also of course imposed upon me by myself). My old self?
Still feeling strong overall (with the inevitable brief periods of doubt and anxiety thrown in of course) but then changing the habits of a lifetime isn't easy.
Thanks again
Gordon
suzannacorfu
08-07-10, 21:12
Hey don't think that I have all the answers!! I'm just muddlin' through as best I can mate!! LOL. You find me the way to go to the supermarket without turning into a pile of jelly and I'll help you with the images!
Go for it Gordon. The only limits in this are those that you put on yourself.
Suz
Well, this thread just gets better and better ! Haven't joined in for a few days as I wanted to reflect upon some of what was been said. Gordon\Yvonne- thank you so much for your replies. You've helped me to face up to the fact that I reacted so dramatically to feeling anxious\depressed last Autumn because I wasn't willing to accept how I was feeling.....
Perhaps deep down you want to break the whole dam even though you know it might be mega.
Absolutely Yvonne, you're right. I think I did throw my toys out of the pram last Autumn. Looking back, I think it took me aback that I felt as nervous\scared about starting a new job as I did. So, rather than choosing to sit with the feelings and let them pass, I choose to panic which in turn spiralled into depression......
My belief is that when things appear to keep going wrong or are extremely difficult, it could be a sign that you are on the wrong path.
Again, spot on advice Yvonne (you should think of getting them copyrighted !) although the wrong path could be either literal (e.g. job, career, lifestyle) or more metaphorical. In my case, I think its the latter- whenever panic\anxiety appears, I start to run down that path like the clappers throwing toys everywhere.....! So, the big lesson for me is to accept and tolerate feeling anxious, rather than hitting the nuclear button straight away.
Gordon- I'm absoutely sure you'd make a success of an alternative career like counselling or therapy. Seems to me you've got two valuable (and increasingy rare) commodities in spades- empathy and common sense- which would stand you in good stead for whatever you choose to do. And without wishing to be too unsubtle, it strikes me that you're thinking in terms of a career change for the right reasons rather than it simply been a knee-jerk reaction to finding life tough.
Suze- totally agree with you about the power of the imagination- you've inspired me to start thinking about how I want things to be....
And finally: am beginning to think about returning to work, but am struggling with the embarassment factor- I've been off three times since I took this promotion last Autumn, so I've hardly covered myself in clover...Quite frankly, I'm dreading the pre-return chat with my manager, and the looks on peoples faces when I return. Any advice gratefully received.....
Cheers
Nick
Suz, Nick
Thanks for the replies
Nick I appreciate your kind comments-certainly IF I do change careers at this point it is no knee-jerk reaction-I've given 28 years of my life to the finance industry so have definitely "given it a go". I am increasingly disillusioned though, just wish I had your confidence that I can make a success of whatever I decide to do next.
You make an interesting point though- empathy and common sense are sadly lacking in my current job-superficiality rules the roost and the lack of "characters" (I mean that word in a positive way) in the job now as opposed to the brainwashed automatons is something I find I'm struggling with.
Nick, I cannot fully understand your own job situation but I CAN relate to it. I have been off since October last year (one failed attempt at a "comeback" in Feb which lasted 4 weeks)-currently I have been back a month and feel this time I can keep myself there. I also have (as mentioned in other threads) a long history of this with the absences that entails so have been feeling like I am in last chance saloon for some time.
So I know where you find yourself just now. Take it from an old hand -DO NOT BE EMBARASSED-YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO NEED TO BE. You do not owe these people anything-you have gone through a helluva time and going back demonstrates a real strength on your part-you may also find people more "forgiving" and sympathetic than you might imagine.
But you'll never know unless you face it-THAT ISN'T MEANT HARSHLY BELIEVE ME-but having been off myself for months it was SO difficult to get back in. And yes there is no avoiding the chat with the manager, I know I found mine very difficult and unless you are VERY fortunate it is unlikely he/she will FULLY understand your problems.
I guess it is that old chestnut "Fight or Flight"-as somebody who took the "flight path" frequently I know how hard it can be to have the inner strength to say "*** it-I'm facing up to this" but if I can do it so can you. Try not to go into the meeting with your manager feeling "inferior" or prejudged-yes he (or she) is your superior (in working life at least) but just a human being at the end of the day. One thing I have definitely managed to do of late is lose some of my fear of authority-if I am satisfied that I am doing my best AND for the right reasons then that is good enough for me now.
But what you do HAS to be your choice-I can willingly give advice and empathise but only you know what you have been through and how best to deal with that. As for being too quick to push the nuclear button, well mate you're talking to a world leader on that one!!
It is difficult for you, but a wee period of reflection, trying to discard the emotional baggage from your mind is what you need.
I hope you make the right decisions for yourself and your family and if you ever need to talk or just get things off your chest don't hesitate to drop me a line on the NMP site.
All the best to you-you are stronger than you think.
Gordon
suzannacorfu
09-07-10, 10:51
Hi Nick,
I understand what you are feeling: "Quite frankly, I'm dreading the pre-return chat with my manager, and the looks on peoples faces when I return."
A certain type of person gets anxiety and panic and we all have one thing in common: we hate to not be "loved" (big umbrella word for respected, wanted, chosen, adored, preferred, you fill in the word that suits you best). This factor causes us to DREAD being judged badly. It all boils down to a fear of abandonment or rejection in essence. The thing is that most people don't have enough time or energy to spend much tine thinking about you or me! What you (and ALL of us) are actually doing is projecting YOUR opinion of you onto them. Their opinion of your "weakness" (here I am using MY term for ME) is not relevant to you Nick. YOUR opinion of your "weakness" is however extremely relevant to you. Whenever I have anxiety I can ALWAYS trace it back to a "negative" opinion I have had about myself. In actual fact other people's negative judgement of me and my "weakness" always INCENCES me and I end up standing up for myself! How weird we are. I can slag me off but no-one else can!! LOL.
So Nick, take a step back and tell me how do you see Gordon, Yvonne and myself? Weak characters to be despised? OF COURSE NOT!! You only feel sympathy and understanding for us don't you? I bet you would stand up for us if someone judged us harshly right? OK so why not do the same for Nick then? Stand up for Nick to Nick! Get me? If you have trouble (it took me YEARS and sometimes I still need to remember) protecting yourself from you then just imagine that Nick is your son (or someone else that you would automatically protect from harm) and stick up for him!
Earlier in this thread I spoke about us being the only guard in this open prison of depression and I said that maybe we should BEFRIEND the guard and he/she might let us pass free. Gordon said about clubbing the guard and escaping. I firmly believe that we have clubbed ourselves enough mate (sorry Gordon, don't mean to be rude). What we need is to befriend ourselves.
Sorry to go on and on here.
Suz
YvonneBelle
09-07-10, 11:57
Just popping in to say how much I'm enjoying this thread.
Gordon - tried to find the website with the list of careers but didn't find it a second time but I do have the list in my PM sent items. With your permission I could just paste it here in this thread? I think there was some issue with PMs that I saw in passing so not being able to open it might not have had anything to do with your computing skills! :)
Nick and Suz - am enjoying your comments too and will be back!
Yvonne
Yvonne/Nick/Suz
The fact this thread has given me more enjoyment and satisfaction than my job has for a long time says something I reckon (but I'm not going to overanalyse that!!)
Yvonne, you may be right-it may not be my computer skills (or lack of) as I did try to open it and it didn't do anything so if you could paste it without too much trouble that would be great.
Nick-what Suz says is right on the button-I am finally getting round to "protecting" myself after years of being the timorous cowering type-and it feels quite good actually-it IS about being more kind to ourselves and not giving a damn if others see us a certain way (unless it's positive of course-we'll all have some of that!!).
And Suz no problem re the "clubbing the guard" bit-perhaps that is the hidden aggressive side of me:D-seriously a more helpful approach IS to befriend the guard (cos we are that guard after all-hope I'm not getting too deep here) and give ourselves a break. Not being trite here cos God knows I know how difficult that is and continues to be...
Am really enjoying all your comments/responses/advice etc... and as Yvonne says in her post (and I'm no Arnie the Terminator) but "I'll be back..."
Gordon
suzannacorfu
09-07-10, 18:15
Keep the image strong guys!!!
Suz
Just wanted to say guys I am on holiday next two weeks and have my kids over for some of that starting tomorrow so may not be able to post/reply so often BUT will be keeping an eye out for your messages anyway-and responding where I can-keep strong all of you and I want you to know how much this site and in particular this thread has helped me in the ongoing battle to keep my anxiety/depression at bay-
Wee quote from the Hold Steady for you-
"We're the projectors
We're hosting the screening
We're the dust in the spotlights
We're just kinda floating...
"Man, we make our own movies"
Doesn't matter whether you like the band (or even heard of them) I just love these lines!! Makes sense to me anyway!!
Anyway if that all came across like inane twittering I'm sorry but it's been a hard week and I'm pretty knackered.And music is my salvation (oops think someone came up with that before me...)
Keep in touch
G
YvonneBelle
10-07-10, 00:22
Accountant
Actor
Architect
Athletic Coach
Bookkeeper
Caterer
Chemist
Child Care Provider
Community Welfare Worker
Computer Professional
Corrections Officer
Cosmetologist
Counselor
Counselor/Social Worker
Customer Service Rep
Dentist
Elementary School Teacher
Elementary Teacher
Exercise Physiologist
Family Physician
Flight Attendant
Fundraiser
Funeral Home Director
Hairdresser
Home Economics Teacher
Host/Hostess
Lawyer
Medical Secretary
Medical/Dental Assistant
Minister/Priest/Rabbi
Nurse
Office Machine Operator
Office Manager
Optometrist
Personal Banker
Police Detective
Professional Volunteer
Psychologist
Public Relations Specialist
Radiological Technician
Real Estate Agent/Broker
Receptionist
Religious Educator
Retail Owner/Operator
Sales Representative
Secretary/Typist
Social Worker
Special Education Teacher
Speech Pathologist
Student Personnel Administrator
Telemarketer
suzannacorfu
10-07-10, 07:59
Have a great time with your kids Gordon!
Suz
Thanks Suz
And Thanks Yvonne-it's quite a list! I will go through it though and see what ones I reckon I could have a go at.
Gordon
Evening all ! I know Gordon's on two weeks leave, but just in case he's popping in occasionally, have a really great break mate. I hope you get to spend time doing what you enjoy as well as been with your kids- not saying that they aren't one and the same of course !
Suze- brilliant advice, you really nail it for me when you say:
we hate to not be "loved" (big umbrella word for respected, wanted, chosen, adored, preferred, you fill in the word that suits you best). This factor causes us to DREAD being judged badly
In fact, its probably quite revealing that I found your posting hard to read, particularly the protecting\befriending aspects. Tonight was the first time I could actually sit down and read it all without flinching, and thats because its so close to home. You're right- I've spent a large part of my life searching for love\acceptance from others, whether it be family, friends or my peers. And shock horror, its never been enough. And thats because you can only accept (and give) love to others when you love (or at least accept) yourself. I know this is hardly earth shattering news, but its taken this unreconstructed alpha male about 41 years to work it out !!
I have to say, what you guys have written in this thread over the past week has really, really, really helped me to start to emerge from the dreaded pit of despair- I can't thank you all enough. I'm thinking about going back to work in the next week or so (want to give my increased venlafaxine a bit of time to settle down) and what Suze\Gordon says about facing colleagues I will take with me to work like a suit of armour !
Thanks again, and I do like 'Man- we make our own movies'- our destiny really is in our hands...
Almost philosophical Nick
YvonneBelle
10-07-10, 23:48
Suz your story certainly provides me with hope and inspiration as it did for Yvonne-am going away to have a wee (not too deep it's been a hard day) think about my next move.When I first read this I thought you were literally off to have a wee!! :roflmao:
Not everyone thinks in pictures or can visualise easily (as I discovered from doing a mini-survey once at a party) and this did come as a surprise to me because I thought that everyone could run movies in their head or visualise shapes, words or numbers as I so often do. So if it's not that easy to conjure up an image, it might mean a different technique could work better, like writing a story or drawing a picture on paper.
I did this once without realising that I was drawing my own future...
I literally got a pencil and piece of paper and drew (cartoon fashion) a flat, a car, a job, a location... and it all manifested exactly like that. It wasn't until years later that I found the piece of paper and thought wow!!
What I had forgotten to do was include a partner... so I spent a great time living somewhere else, working and driving round in a car... but spent the whole time doing it alone. Lesson learned there.
I am now scared to draw... LOL because it's a little like creating a cosmic order if you believe in such things.
But if I did, I would have to remember to include my ideal mate. :)
So for me, visualising does work (mostly in my head rather than on paper) but I appreciate it doesn't necessarily come naturally to others. It depends how you think. Some people feel things or just know things without imagining them.
For me, if I do a countdown... I literally 'see' the numbers in my mind's eye float past... quite big sometimes.
Or perhaps I'm just wierd!!! :whistles:
supersezza
11-07-10, 00:01
hope i'm not gatecrashing on this thread! :blush:
being able to visualise things is a great asset to have! if u can get really really relaxed before going to bed and also when you wake up in the morning that's a great time to do a 'mental movie' of how the day will go...i try to imagine it all going well with me having a smile on my face, literally from the moment i brush my teeth to getting into bed again...sometimes it works sometimes not.
if you can look up any NLP stuff or self-hypnosis then that is also good to do...
the drawing is also good.
i think anything that keep you on the 'good' path...i.e. the one that u want then the less space there is for anxiety and depression as you'll just be happy....i guess the other side to this is accepting the things that we can't change and moving on from them.
sorry that turned into a bit of a waffle!
Sarah
YvonneBelle
11-07-10, 00:18
Again, spot on advice Yvonne (you should think of getting them copyrighted !) although the wrong path could be either literal (e.g. job, career, lifestyle) or more metaphorical. In my case, I think its the latter- whenever panic\anxiety appears, I start to run down that path like the clappers throwing toys everywhere.....! So, the big lesson for me is to accept and tolerate feeling anxious, rather than hitting the nuclear button straight away.That's also my lesson. I started a new job only a couple of months ago and the pattern that I have repeated over the past few years is to be great at interviews, great at getting jobs and then hating it once I start to settle in and feel pressured because the job itself is the problem (type of work) and not necessarily my ability to put ideas across or demonstrate good key attributes and capabilities.
As a colleague I tend to be open, helpful and caring but with bosses and deadlines... that's where I seem to bump into issues. It becomes like a parent/child relationship and I sometimes find myself rebelling or feeling childish. This has come through during counselling and it's quite interesting to realise that a part of yourself is being a child and reacting in the way that a child would (hence toys out of the pram) and the adult self gets taken over by the emotion and the fear that the smaller (scared and angry) child part of you is displaying.
So I have been showing a tendency to swing between being overly optimistic and gung ho to wondering what the hell happened and oh no it's all going wrong again....
This is a pattern I need to break and part of it is working with the depression and understanding what's happening, part of it is figuring out the issues I have with authority and thirdly working out what type of career and organisation would suit my personality and skills best because it's now pretty clear that the path I have taken for the last 10 years or so hasn't worked out for me and that I really do need to re-train and do something else. But that in itself isn't easy and will require hard work but oh-so worth it if it brings me peace of mind as well as a decent income.
And finally: am beginning to think about returning to work, but am struggling with the embarassment factorMe too. I can totally understand how you feel and really liked Suz's post on that and will take some tips there myself. If my own job wasn't so new I'd probably consider facing it out but in my case I'm really wondering whether it's worth putting myself through further possible stress when in reality, this job has only so far taken a couple of months out of my life (43 years) and would very soon be forgotten as long as I deal with the issues that have resulted in depression before moving forwards - else I can only assume I'll be back in the same place (metaphorically) at some point in the future.
Let's dig it all up guys and zap those demons once and for all!!! LOL
YvonneBelle
11-07-10, 00:30
i think anything that keep you on the 'good' path...i.e. the one that u want then the less space there is for anxiety and depression as you'll just be happyHi Sarah, I really like that thought... the more room you give to positive thinking the less space for anxiety to muscle in on the act! I sometimes try what I call the 'scratch the record' technique - like I'm having a negative thought and I try and make a noise in my head like zrrrrrrppppp!!! and literally scratch it mid-thought.
It doesn't always work and I sometimes find myself indulging in negative thinking but at other times it does work and I either change the record or just think about something else. NLP is something I've touched upon and can see it's value. I also like Paul McKenna and have tried one of his hypnosis CDs. Very relaxing once you get into the swing of it and very motivational.
....i guess the other side to this is accepting the things that we can't change and moving on from them.Oooh, that's a good one and possibly the hardest one of all. I really struggle with that!
YvonneBelle
11-07-10, 00:37
Whenever I have anxiety I can ALWAYS trace it back to a "negative" opinion I have had about myself. In actual fact other people's negative judgement of me and my "weakness" always INCENCES me and I end up standing up for myself! How weird we are. I can slag me off but no-one else can!! LOL.I absolutely love this! Made me laugh out loud 'cos it's so true!!
Loved the whole post actually but this part really made me giggle. :D
suzannacorfu
11-07-10, 09:08
Supersezza - Gatecrashing?????? YOU??? Are you kidding?? You always have very interesting things to say!!!!!!!! I loved your post and agree completely with you. I started the "Happy Moments" Thread with this positive thinking in mind and it really ISN'T like me at all but recently I have begun to see that "we" (PA/Depression sufferers) grab onto any symptom and negativity like the proverbial terrier with a bone and the "good" moments pass us by very much in the manner of an "off" chicken curry through our digestive system!!!! "Ooooo thank God THAT'S over!!"
Yvonne - glad to see that I can still make people laugh!!! You, my dear 43-year-old stunner, are very close to being "Cured" (whatever the heck we seem to think THAT is! Do we really think that non-sufferers are ecstatically happy and coping 24/7??). You are one of the most self-aware people I have met and THAT means that you're well on your way Girl!!! One thing that has helped me enormously with my "Littel Girl Inside" is this: to cut a long story short - I had terrible trouble with abandonment/rejection fears. Would get really leery if someone didn't call for 3 days etc, wouldn't stand up for myself if I perceived the other as "someone I didn't want to be rejected by in work etc. My father was in the Navy and would leave for 6 month stints in submarines leaving me with my mother who loved me dearly but didn't really "get" me. 2 year olds cannot comprehend what "6 months is" very much like you and I today cannot really comprehend what the amount 42 billion pounds is. We understand 10000 pounds, maybe 100000 pounds but 42 billion? Nah it's just a number. That's how a small child sees 6 months. Anyway Dad was the "Whole Universe". When I realised (like you) that the little Suze was the one having these fears and that Big Suz was feeling the feelings. I did my imagining again. Took out a photo of little Suz and said to her: "It's OK sweetheart, I've got your back now!!! I won't EVER, EVER leave you (well I can't Can I!!) and whatever happens I am here".
Since that day (and it's only 6 months ago) little Suze has NEVER, EVER felt those fears again. I am so cool about the whole relationship/work aspect and now I really do stick up for myself. You see? I am able to stick up for Little Suze!!! THAT'S allowed!!!! Guys it may sound corny to you but Imagery does it for me.
Waffling again...
Suz
Hi all
Just "dropping in" briefly in between trying to keep the peace with two children who are bored because the Scottish weather has resorted to type (raining) and the "indoors stuff" is starting to lose it's appeal. But they ARE good company and it's a step in the right direction that I am seeing them again at normal times.
Anyhows too much interesting and thought-provoking stuff been posted since I was last on to fully digest it just now-I will do that on Wed when the kids go back to their mum's (I have them again the next week)- but just a few comments.
Sarah-you are definitely NOT gatecrashing-this thread ain't exclusive to Yvonne, Suz, Nick and myself!! And I'm glad you are able to "visualize" things-it's something I find difficult. Nick-without wanting to be presumptous I get the impression you do too so maybe it's something the fairer sex have over us? Only a thought-also occured to me (with possible exception of Sarah whose age I don't know) that we are all in our forties with the relative "baggage" that brings with it-no deep insight here just an observation.
Yvonne- I have just re-read that post I did the other day and yes it does look like I was announcing a trip to the toilet!!:) Although I am willing to share most things on this site I do think that could go under the heading of too much information!:blush: Damn my love of brackets!!
On a serious note I understand the bit about feeling on an even keel and then it all going "pear-shaped" and us indulging in childlike behaviour-and I too have a problem with bosses/authority. I guess I also feel that while I am doing well at the moment and keeping the depression demons at bay I do fear going back to my old ways.
Suz-I do agree with the point you make about others not being allowed to chastise us while we "beat ourselves up" senseless-made me smile too!!
Nick-keep wearing that "suit of armour"-it will stand you in good stead I promise.
Anyway for a "brief" response it's gone on a bit but keep posting-I am enjoying all the comments/opinions and getting a lot from them.
Off now to make up with a 12 year old son I was just a bit abrupt to!!
Gordon
suzannacorfu
11-07-10, 13:54
Hi Gordon, glad that you're enjoying the kids! You know what I think that Fromm is right when he says that the differences between sexes pale in front of the differences between people in general (obviously loosely quoted here). I would suggest that the difficulty in imagining for men is rather a product of Social conditioning rather than any fundamental biological difference! Men are programmed to think "realistically" and not to "daydream". I would imagine that a guy like you who has a talent with the written word could easily learn to develop images if you just let yourself go for it!!! Imagination is the driving force behind everything new!!!! If you can inagine it then it is doable!
Oh don't I go on and on and on and on ad infinitum
Suz
Evening all ! Having watched Spain v Holland (should have known better), the only way I can dispel pending post-match depression is by posting something here. Actually, I did think I'd posted this morning, adding to the latest excellent thoughts, but it doesn't seem to be on the system so here goes again....
When Yvonne says 'as a colleague I tend to be open, helpful and caring' I suspect that chimes with us all, linked to what Suz was saying yesterday about wanting to be loved\accepted\respected etc.
On using visualisation, I'm really gonna give Sarah and Suz's excellent suggestions a go, although I'm with Gordon on this. Sweeping generalisation though it is, I did think us blokes find it hard to use our imaginations in such an intuitive, emotional way- I would like to believe its social conditioning Suz, honest I would.....!
I want to pick up on something Yvonne said yesterday:
quite interesting to realise that a part of yourself is being a child and reacting in the way that a child would (hence toys out of the pram) and the adult self gets taken over by the emotion and the fear that the smaller (scared and angry) child part of you is displaying
Again, I totally get and understand this, although I'm trying not to differentiate my behaviour in this way. Could be me being a 'slippery' bloke, but I'm pretty sure I've used this in the past on an almost conscious level to not take responsibility for my behaviour i.e. its not really 'adult ' me who's doing this, its 'child' Nick, so there's nothing I can do about it. So this might sound a bit OTT, but I'm trying to understand myself in terms of 'one' Nick whose behaviour and values (some of which may be inconsistent) have developed over time. Make any sense ??
And this leads me to my main thought- getting the right balance between understanding and accepting. Don't know about you guys, but I'm a world class analyst of my behaviour (!), and I do think there is a point beyond which unpicking and dissecting what we do, and why we do it, ceases to be healthy or helpful. I know 'overthinking' (think Yvonne said it earlier) is an expression of depression, and it may just be a reflection of where I am on my journey, but I'm trying to spend more time befriending myself in the way that Suz describes, and less time understanding.
Again, hope this doesn't come over too much as a stream of conciousness. Guess what I'm trying to say is there will always be reasons for us to get anxious\depressed. And while understanding is important in helping us to escape depression, its more important to work on accepting ourselves as that is ultimately the path down which we can escape our jails....
....or am I being oversimplistic ?
Keep enjoying the weather Gordon !
Nick
YvonneBelle
12-07-10, 00:19
You, my dear 43-year-old stunner, are very close to being "Cured"...You are one of the most self-aware people I have met and THAT means that you're well on your way Girl!!!Why thank you Suz!! lol *shuffles feet a bit* :blush:
My sis often screeches with laughter at my slightly-off-the-wall powers of observation... whether directed at myself or not! I suppose I am a bit of a people watcher, being generally quite interested in human behavior. And yes, I am pretty aware of my own strengths and weaknesses in the way that I find some people are not. Some folks just don't seem to care less and don't seem to have any self-awareness at all! Maybe that isn't such a bad thing and could even be viewed as being free-spirited, but I personally think there's a fine line between doing exactly as you please or not caring what others think and being slightly careless and thoughtless!
Ah well, it wouldn't do if we were all the same, would it?
Kids are upstairs actually behaving themselves so just thought I'd add a quick tuppenceworth.
Nick-I didn't get to see much of Spain-Holland but gather I didn't miss much?! Did see the goal which was a beauty right enough. And Scotland have Spain in the Euro qualifiers! Piece of cake!!
Anyway don't want to bore the ladies with all this footie talk. Actually going back to something Nick said I agree wholewheartedly on the "over-analysis" bit. You are spot on when you say that whilst healthy up to a point this can being a rod for our own backs. I suspect that we are all "over-analysts" on this thread, but if the alternative is not to think AT ALL, ie-not to CARE how and why we behave the way we do-then I'll go with over-analysing anytime.
But it does lead to problems for us-quick example-yesterday was a bad day-I was tired (for whatever reason) and a bit grumpy truth be told. Kids had an argument (over the X-box!!) which I could have handled better. Rather than just accepting this as part of the rich tapestry of parenthood I analysed it to death to the point where I went from having not dealt with a simple argument amongst my kids too well to being the worst parent in the world, not being able to cope, etc... I can look back and smile about it now but at the time it really took over and I ended up in that hellish depressed state all over again.
One thing I'm pleased about is that these bouts where I go into that "childish strop" in my head as mentioned by Yvonne and Nick in particular are becoming less frequent and shorter in duration-perhaps as Nick alludes to I am beginning to "accept" this behaviour within myself and deal with it better? I also agree with Nick that I am trying to deal with "one" Gordon at the moment with the different behaviours that entails rather than dividing it into two-but whatever works for us individually is all good.
Much more I could say having read the posts but kids are playing up again so away to get them (and me) outdoors where it is "dreich" (good Scots word) but dry (at the mo)
Keep posting and I'll pop back soon
Gordon
YvonneBelle
12-07-10, 12:10
On a serious note I understand the bit about feeling on an even keel and then it all going "pear-shaped" and us indulging in childlike behaviour-and I too have a problem with bosses/authority. I guess I also feel that while I am doing well at the moment and keeping the depression demons at bay I do fear going back to my old ways.That's understandable Gordon but you are arming yourself with more knowledge and awareness now. You are not in an open battle field alone - you have supporters here. I think (from my own pov) feeling vulnerable in certain situations is a big issue. At other times I feel very strong and powerful - totally capable and confident. But when I feel less certain or trying to explain myself to authority I become like a weak kitten again.
I think this is where techniques like NLP (neuro linguistic programming) or EFT (emotional freedom technique) can help and I'm interested in exploring both myself.
I think you can train yourself to feel the same strong powerful feelings that you get from being in control so that you can feel those feelings when you are in a situation that makes you feel slightly more vulnerable (like just before a job interview or if you are giving a blood sample and it makes you feel queazy).
I for one HATE giving blood samples and in the past have almost fainted... and I still don't like them but I have improved so it IS possible.
I also used to scream at spiders (I bet they loved it!!) but they are much more afraid of you... you can kill them easily!
I still don't like the scuttling little beasts but I have trained myself (through living alone) to talk to them gently (c'mon, who said you could come in?) gently coaxing them into a jar and throwing them out of the window onto grass. Have a nice life. I still feel slightly jittery but not the screaming maniac I used to be.
I think us humans are very adaptable and should have no need to be scared of ourselves. We have enough to worry about just surviving in this mad world without jumping at our own shadows! lol
I think in times gone by there was so much more focus on the group and yes, it might have been survival of the fittest but also you survived if you were in a group. Too many people are living alone I reckon - that might be part of my own issues. We generally feel better when we feel supported, don't we?
If our behaviour can alter depending on circumstances then surely we can improve our achilles heels and weak spots? We all have them... every creature has a vulnerability, even lions!
Anyway... I have an appointment with my gym trainers!!
Hope you are enjoying your time with the kids Gordon. :)
Just been a 20 mile round bicycle trip with them!!
Thought I was quite fit for a 45 year old-am thinking again!!:wacko:
A (knackered) Gordon
"Too many people are living alone I reckon - that might be part of my own issues. We generally feel better when we feel supported, don't we?"
Hi Yvonne
That is DEFINITELY part of the problem. At first when I divorced there was that sense of release and relief that I am sure many can relate to-and while I lived in the small flat I purchased with my share of the settlement proceeds I genuinely didn't feel particularly alone or lonely-I saw the kids at the appropriate times and although depression was there I didn't feel it was down to loneliness.
But since I moved to the house I have started to feel that way-when the kids are here it is great and feels like a proper "family" home-when they go however....
It is a 3 bed semi so not the biggest house in the world BUT big enough when you are the ONE person rattling about in it. I'm not being ungrateful-appreciate a lot of divorced people would be grateful to be in a similar position. Things have improved of late, one because of the support I've had on here on NMP from people such as yourself and two because I have forced myself out into the open a bit more and realised that I DO have friends I can talk to.
But you are right- a lot of us do live alone now for whatever reason, divorce, through choice etc... and while there are advantages that somebody to just reassure us that everything will be ok is lacking.
Ooops, too much like a lonely hearts column now!! Basically just agreeing with your point that many of us feel isolated in present society though having experienced it myself a marriage/relationship can be a pretty lonely place to be too if it isn't right.
Anyway rant over- I am not neglecting my kids during this! Just finding more and more interesting points to ponder.
And I like your comment re having enough to deal with without making life more difficult for ourselves-I am slowly trying not to over-analyse a particular day or whatever-just say "right that was a good/bad day but that's what it was and tomorrow is a fresh one"-I THINK I'm getting there with it.
Thanks again
Gordon
YvonneBelle
12-07-10, 20:30
Actually, I did think I'd posted this morning, adding to the latest excellent thoughts, but it doesn't seem to be on the system so here goes again....Grrr, don't you just hate it when that happens???
When Yvonne says 'as a colleague I tend to be open, helpful and caring' I suspect that chimes with us all, linked to what Suz was saying yesterday about wanting to be loved\accepted\respected etc.Yes, acceptance is part of it and I do really like to be liked, but also I'm generally quite a good egg, even if there's nothing in it for me! :D
On using visualisation, I'm really gonna give Sarah and Suz's excellent suggestions a go, although I'm with Gordon on this. Sweeping generalisation though it is, I did think us blokes find it hard to use our imaginations in such an intuitive, emotional way- I would like to believe its social conditioning Suz, honest I would.....!Well, I think there are plenty of intuitive, visual thinkers out there of both sexes, but - without wanting to sound too sexist - I guess some blokes can be a bit... single-minded? And that's not meant to sound derogatory at all, it's just that I think those men might be more inclined towards the more logical (left-brained) approach to problem-solving. However, that said, many of the world's greatest visionaries are male!
So this might sound a bit OTT, but I'm trying to understand myself in terms of 'one' Nick whose behaviour and values (some of which may be inconsistent) have developed over time. Make any sense ??Yes, I agree we shouldn't hide behind our inner child (if you accept that school of thought).
I did think the idea of a 'mini-me' a little bit new age but my counsellor introduced me to the idea of a smaller part of me that was reacting in a childlike way. At first I wasn't so sure but then I could really identify with those feelings. Feeling lost, vulnerable, scared, overwhelmed... not the feelings of an adult you might think. So there might be something in it!
But rather than blaming a smaller 'you' for irrational behaviour I think the idea is to simply acknowledge and understand why you (the whole you) is having those childlike feelings at all in those circumstances. Thinking of yourself as a whole person is the way to go (I really do believe that) but I also think that we play different roles with different people and behave slightly differently depending on the circumstances.
For example, many of us are sons, daughters, parents, uncles, aunties, husbands, wives etc. and you might display certain characteristics at certain times depending on what role you are currently playing. They all co-exist is how I now view it rather than there being adult Nick and child Nick. There is also dad, brother, spouse... etc. all mixed into who you are. But dad Nick might behave differently to son Nick depending on what's happening.
And if like me a parent/child situation crops up and I'm the child... well, that's when I might start throwing toys!! :D When I'm being the older sister - my maturity, love, empathy and experience rises up to nurture the sibling.
And this leads me to my main thought- getting the right balance between understanding and accepting.Yes, we can spend too much time trying to understand and less time accepting.
but I'm trying to spend more time befriending myself in the way that Suz describes, and less time understanding.Yes - a lot of us (me included) give ourselves way too much of a hard time most of the time!
Great thoughts there Nick :yesyes:
YvonneBelle
13-07-10, 00:11
Ooops, too much like a lonely hearts column now!! Basically just agreeing with your point that many of us feel isolated in present society though having experienced it myself a marriage/relationship can be a pretty lonely place to be too if it isn't right.Yes, very true Gordon! Also, a bustling workplace can feel very isolated or even a large city such as London, especially when you are feeling low or depressed. People just seem to swim around you and you feel a little bit like you are in a goldfish bowl. (Well, I do anyway.)
Relationships can be bitter-sweet and so can being single. But having someone that understands you and someone to share thoughts and feelings with is probably one of the real plus points of a relationship and I do think it's not so much feeling lonely as feeling unsupported (emotionally) that I personally find the hardest. I can easily be alone... but not so easily be alone when I'm down. I tend to become almost reclusive which isn't very healthy. I sometimes think if there was a shoulder to cry on then I wouldn't get half as low sometimes... because somebody else would spot the signs sooner. As it is, I sometimes think I'm okay when really I'm not - and it's not until much later that I think OMG I was pretty bad I just hadn't accepted it or realised because I think you do get used to feeling low and then that becomes normal. So when you start to resolve a few things and start to feel better you think of all the days you've wasted without energy lying on the sofa when you could have been doing something else. That's the part I hate - when I realise afterwards and think why didn't I do something sooner? How did I get that low before realising it and get help before? That's one thing my doc said. She said I wish you'd come to me sooner.
Ah well, I did and that's the main thing - and things are improving. I'm not there yet and have still got loads to practical stuff to do but I'm no longer as daunted by the whole prospect of dealing with everything that I've been sweeping under the carpet for months.
Have a great rest-of-the-week!
Morning all ! Can't tell you how much I'm enjoying this 'therapy gold'- am seriously thinking of packing my counselling in and sharing the money with you all instead !
The living alone vs being in a relationship is a real conundrum, isn't it ? Having experienced both when depressed, I'd have to agree that the latter is preferable. Even if your partner can't be supportive in the way we'd like, at least having someone around keeps you in the moment, whereas when you're alone (as Yvonne says) its easy to drift and lose touch with the real world. Whilst I love my wife Anna to bits (and I think she feels the same !), I do know that she struggles to support and understand me, which is interesting given that she has experienced depression. This has meant that there have been times (including recently) when she's been very close to calling it a day, as she finds me emotionally and physically draining. Whilst I completely understand why she feels the way she does, it does mean that her perspective changes between 'support', 'understanding' and 'neutral acknowledgement'. Again, I totally get this, and accept that she's entitled to find it tough been with me. More importantly, I don't get angry with her when part of me perceives I'm not getting her support- I rationalise instead that she wouldn't get frustrated with me unless she cared.
I don't know if you guys can relate to this, but I do feel that over time, I've almost fused my character and identity into Anna's. What I mean is, when we recently had a really tough conversation about me been depressed, I really pannicked at the idea of us going our seperate ways- I just couldn't see myself as a seperate person- almost like I was invisible. Since then, I do feel stronger in that I've begun to realise that I would be able to stand alone and have a life without Anna if we ever reached a point where she'd had enough. But thats not me wishing it to happen (honest !)- more about me accepting and seeing myself again for who I am.
Sorry if this is getting a bit deep and personal- just helps to reflect. My final thought:
That's the part I hate - when I realise afterwards and think why didn't I do something sooner? How did I get that low before realising it and get help before
Aaahh Yvonne, if only you could invent an early warning depression radar- you'd make a fortune ! Its driven me bonkers in the past, but like you, am trying to be more tolerant of the fact that its happened, I've gotten low, and it'll just take a bit of time to get my back on my pegs...
Thinking of yourself as a whole person is the way to go (I really do believe that) but I also think that we play different roles with different people and behave slightly differently depending on the circumstances.
Why is it you always find exactly the right words Yvonne !! That's exactly it- fine to differentiate in terms of roles but not to then use that to deflect responsibility for our behaviour to our 'inner child', shrug our shoulders, and then say there is nothing we can do about it. Without wishing to be sexist (again !), I do wonder if this is something we males are more likely to do (i.e. identify 'problem' and pin responsibility on it, in this case our 'naughty' inner child) whereas the fairer sex are less driven to need to be so precise (anal) and more able to accept things are the way they are......
Gordon- am very impressed with the 20 miles bike ride ! I didn't know kids today still had stamina ! Took my 13 yrs old godson out on a mountain bike last year and he moaned consistently (quite impressive in its way) for 10 miles ! Really pleased to hear you're enjoying your time with them, and I think your very close to nirvana when you say:
"right that was a good/bad day but that's what it was and tomorrow is a fresh one"
Reckon its a simple (or complex) as that !
Have a good day everyone
Well daughter is upstairs asleep and son is watching telly before he goes to bed so thought I'd catch up with your postings.
Yvonne I have to confess I have never been to London and have no desire to-I can totally relate to that feeling you express of being alone in a giant goldfish bowl-much prefer a smaller town. Closest I came to big city life was working in Glasgow for a while but couldn't hack it long term-funny have gone from being a real "city boy/townie" to someone who likes the quiet life-guess that could just be getting older?!
I like your point re not being in a relationship though-it IS more a feeling of not being supported than loneliness that gets to me-without bemoaning my lot on top of traumatic "life events" I moved into a new house last August which needed a helluva lot more doing to it than I ever imagined-it was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back for me. As somebody who is hopeless at diy and being able to "see beyond" the present mess to a modern, neat home a shoulder to cry on at that stage would have been a lifesaver-just somebody to say that it would be alright. I honestly believe having someone there at that time MAY have saved me from going under the way I did-I should point out that there was more than JUST the house move going on at the time, EVERYTHING just got on top of me but feeling "unsupported" was what did for me I reckon-oh and a bit of "throwing the toys out the pram" as well!!
Nick-I can understand the strain your depression puts on your relationship- if it's any consolation you are at a better stage of your own understanding of depression than I was a few years back when I lost my marriage to it (that's a slightly sweeping statement- there were other factors and even a professional self-flaggelator like myself won't take the WHOLE blame for what happened-nevertheless it was a big factor and I can't deny it).
My point is at the time I was so self-absorbed and in my own little depressive "bubble" that I couldn't honestly see what was happening around me-getting more distant with my wife and kids, going out less, losing whatever "sparkle" I might have once had.
I too saw a change within my wife from understanding to the "neutral acknowledgment" you describe. It is difficult to give advice as your situation is so personal to the two of you but do keep talking about it with Anna-I speak from experience when I say that it is infinitely better to work through it than the alternative-the work you are doing in trying to accept and understand yourself should hopefully avoid that-though if it was to happen getting emotionally "tougher" now will help. But despite your honesty re your feelings on the matter I do detect a determination within you not to let that happen.
Anyway taking advice from a 45 year old divorced dad of two living alone and struggling with depression and anxiety may not be the best idea!!
Finally I didn't realise how prescient my comment about good days and bad days would be, the bike trip with the kids was one of the best days I've had for many a while, but today I have been in a foul mood and am ashamed to admit kids took brunt of it-not too much I reckon. And they don't seem too phased by it!!
I can only imagine it might be what Tim Cantopher describes in his book "Depressive Illness-Curse of the Strong"- if a (hopefully recovering) depressive pushes himself too hard too soon then that "good day" will sure as fate be followed by a really crap day. Guess the fact I recognise this and am not believing it is some terrible sign that I am going backwards again is a plus point.
Anyway enough ranting for now-I agree with you Nick this site and this thread in particular has been some of the best "therapy" I've had lately.
Cheerio the noo
Gordon
ElizabethJane
13-07-10, 22:34
Dear Gordon I have read that book by Tim Cantopher. I hope that you found it useful. It was such a long time ago since I read it I can't remember what it was all about now. I think that I have 'wasted' years by being depressed but I have achieved many things that I thought that I would never do. I hope that you are ok. I was just passing EJ. I might have to re-read my whole collection of Iris Murdoch read years ago when I was very depressed and gone into oblivion.
Hi EJ
Good to hear from you.
I too feel the pain of having "wasted" years through depression but I guess we can't have them back unfortunately. I am trying as you know to come to terms with the various events in my life that have led me to this point-at the moment I am still on a very low dose of Mirtazapine and coping ok although there are still too many "down" days for my liking.
The Tim Cantopher book is ok-some good points in there when my brain is up to searching for them. I think it's like all these self-help books-you have to discover the bits that work for you personally-what works for one person won't necessarily for another etc...
I hope you are doing ok-I do agree with your point that we can learn from this and take on things we might not otherwise have done.
All the best and keep in touch
Gordon
YvonneBelle
15-07-10, 11:06
Yvonne I have to confess I have never been to London and have no desire to-I can totally relate to that feeling you express of being alone in a giant goldfish bowl-much prefer a smaller town.Hi Gordon, actually - me too! I used London as an analogy and don't live there. No offence to anyone who lives in London but I could never live or work there - no way! Although saying that I do live and work in a city - the city of Birmingham!! lol (And many a person would probably say they'd never live here either, but I'm a Brummie and I'm allowed to slag it off but nobody else is allowed!) :tongue: And it does have it's beautiful parts like any city. However, my favourite part of the Midlands is Warwickshire and Oxfordshire. Some beautiful countryside around there in the south Midlands. I've never visited Scotland but my sister has been for a couple of short breaks and fell in love with it. She spent her honeymoon there. :)
And working through my own depression has led me to realise that feeling unsupported and feeling unloved (to an extent) are both factors - plus thinking that I'm not 'good enough' for some reason. Loneliness is probaby too strong a word because I spend loads of time on my own quite comfortably without feeling lonely - but there are times when I think it would be so lovely to meet the right person at last, rather than wasting my poor heart on an old situation that has gone way past it's sell by.
Hope you have another good day to counter yesterday!
Yvonne
Hi Yvonne
Nothing against London (or Birmingham!)-I know some people would be driven mad living up here in "Woolen Mill Land" as I call it (the only shops that consistently survive up here are wooly jumper and tartan tat outlets).
I love Scotland too much to ever leave, although the fact the kids are here would make that a non-starter anyway. My only real experience of holidaying in England (if you ignore drunken sorties to Blackpool, Scarborough and Torquay in my misplaced youth!) is going to the Lake District with my mum and dad when I was a nipper-now THAT is a lovely part of the world no question.
Regarding your other points, I too suffer from the dreaded "not good enough" syndrome, something I am trying to break free of. I do spend a lot of time on my own quite happily, but when my kids visit for a few days (as just there) the emptiness and silence of the house after they've gone take a bit of getting used to. That said I haven't had a really bad day like Tuesday again so here's hoping.
I agree we can spend too much time pining for an old relationship rather than either concentrating on life on our own or entering a new one. One thing recent events have brought home to me is how much I miss the "family unit" I used to have (Mr Average with the 2.4 kids-where do they get the decimal bit from?!) but it IS long gone and I am finally (only taken 4 years or more) getting to grips with my life as it is NOW.
Anyway must go-house is a tip and although I'm not going to "blitz" it (haven't got the energy) I will do some tidying up I think.
Oh well, that will be in front of the telly watching my Ashes to Ashes DVD's....
All the best
Gordon
ElizabethJane
15-07-10, 19:40
Hi Gordon I hope that you don't mind me joining in. I am an Essex girl although I dont fit the stereotype and have never danced round my handbag or owned a pair of white stilettos and black tights! I do live fairly near to Southend-on-sea or Sarfhend to the locals. We have a lovely (small cathedral) in Chelmsford and I sing there on a fairly regular basis. Essex has some lovely villages such as Thaxted and was home to Gustav Holst. Some of us are quite cultured. My husband was born in Snape Suffolk home to the internationally famous concert hall. Enough of that. I have visited Glasgow and Edingburgh as my ex was a scot. I understand your feeling of not being good enough. I always feel that I have to give 101% and prove myself to others and want to be the best at what I do. So I'm doomed to failure some of the time. I often wonder how I would have turned out if I hadn't been crippled by depression and anxiety. I have been in hospitals too but I feel my life has been suficiently turned around that that would not happen now. I have a few friends and one or two who would even put me up or would help me if things started to go pear shaped.
Evening all !
No statements of the blindingly obvious from me tonight, just wanted to thank Gordon for his sage advice on relationships. I think taking advice from you is a very good idea ! Hope you've had a good day today with or without the kids.
Interestingly (or not, as the case may be), I'm living in London but come from nr Birmingham (well, s.staffordshire to be correct) and I agree with Yvonne, brum is a very different place to London. You still get a sense of place and identity in Birmingham, esp after all the regeneration work over the past 10-15 yrs. Whereas London is just one amorphous, sprawling blob, esp once you get out into the 'burbs. And I agree, it can be a lonely place.....
Keep up the sterling posts everyone- I'm gearing myself up for returning to work on monday.....
Nick
EJ, Nick
Good to hear from both of you.
Yes EJ Essex has suffered a bit from the "stereotypical" Essex Girl Ladette image portrayed in recent years but if you believe everything you read you would think us Scots are stingy and mean. (Now where did I lock my wallet?...)
EJ it sounds like you are someone who has been through an enormously hard time and as you say (and like all of us on this site) you don't go easy on yourself but you also sound very self-aware and like the rest of us you are carrying on trying to work it all out and find the peace and calm you desire. I know you will get there and if it is any comfort your experience of depression and anxiety is what enables you to come on here and offer support,sympathy and advice to people like myself so don't lose sight of that.
Nick-am glad you found the relationship advice helpful but don't think I'll join Relate yet!! It's such an individual thing and very personal but there were certainly aspects of your last thread I could relate to. As I said I wish you luck whatever transpires. I am missing the kids actually, kinda ironic as I felt I spent a lot of time shouting at them to stop arguing! But guess that is common to every parent and am learning to also give myself credit for the good stuff-the bike trip for example even if I had a sore bahookie afterwards-that's Scots for yeah I'm sure you get the idea...
Good luck for Monday and remember you have NOTHING to be ashamed of-I really mean that although I know it is difficult as guilt and shame come as part of the package-go in strong though, try to keep calm and remember your manager is only your superior in the WORK sense.
Anyway keep posting I enjoy reading the posts-didn't know what I started but it's been really helpful and gratifying to know there are others out there with the same worries and concerns.
Bye for now
Gordon
YvonneBelle
17-07-10, 23:05
Hi Gordon, hope you had a good week!
And Nick - good luck for Monday. :yesyes:
EJ, something you said reminded me of something I read on a life coaching website called Big Leap that I happened upon today via another site.
I understand your feeling of not being good enough. I always feel that I have to give 101% and prove myself to others and want to be the best at what I do. So I'm doomed to failure some of the time. I often wonder how I would have turned out if I hadn't been crippled by depression and anxiety.
One of the questions asked is: If you didn’t have to prove anything to anyone, what would you do with the rest of your life? Very interesting question! Proving ourselves to others is more of a driver than I had realised.
Another snippet:
Our beliefs form and come true for us when we find evidence to back them up. What we focus on expands. If you believe that it will never be possible for you to change career, that life’s a bitch and then you die, well you’re right. What you believe about the world is true. Your reality is what you think it is. So if you want to change your reality, change your beliefs.
and...
It generally takes around 100 pieces of evidence before a new belief takes root and your focus begins to change effortlessly...Change your belief, change your reality, change your thinking, change your job, change your life.
Interesting! - I think Suzy Greaves is the life coaching guru behind it.
I don't know much about her work but the little bits I read were quite interesting.
Proving ourselves to others - that's something I hadn't really considered before, but yes, it's true and in some respects what are we trying to prove to others and why?
YvonneBelle
17-07-10, 23:12
BIG thinking creates BIG living. It allows you to work with what you have right here, right now and to train your brain to constantly reach to find a BIGGER way to live your life.
But what does that actually mean? If you live a BIG life:
You will wallow in self acceptance on a daily basis.
You will let your standards drop and watch the quality of your life rise
You’ll stop trying to prove yourself to others and start recognising your own self worth by doing the things you’re naturally good at and enjoy.
You’ll exchange a list of shoulds for a list of wants.
You’ll have sad/mad/bad moments and recognise that this is totally OK.
You will embrace your humanness – your brilliance and your crappy bits – and focus on your brilliance and have a sense of humour about the rest.
You will lead a loving life.
I think this just about covers everything we have been talking about so far.... :yesyes: a great list there!
Hi Yvonne
I think these eight lines in your second post sum up where I am TRYING to get to-as all of us who push ourselves too hard are I reckon.
Have had a bit of a downer the last two days, especially yesterday-I had the kids for a few hours and after they left I had a real downturn which reminded me of the way I was back in October and made me question if I had learned anything over the past few months. All the old negative thoughts returned, but I did calm down sufficiently by the early evening to take myself out a short walk.
The one thing that I DO know is wrong is that I don't have enough to occupy my time when the kids are not with me. These are the times when I have the opportunity to mope and allow myself to wallow in my misery. Loneliness is in there as part of the equation I guess but I am not a social hermit, I do have friends and play sports etc... but I think I need to do something to get myself involved in a group/the community more. That is down to me I know.
ALL the eight points make sense, some I do believe I've made progress with, some I still struggle with. That bit about having to prove ourselves all the time is so true-we push ourselves so hard but the question I'm asking myself just now is WHO exactly is it I'm trying to impress? My mum and dad? Maybe once but they're both dead. My ex-wife? Hardly. My kids? Only up to the point that I want to be as good a dad to them as possible and provide for them as any dad would want to. My colleagues-not really- as you'll have seen from previous postings I am severely "out of love" with my job so no longer care if I'm seen to be good at it or not. For what it's worth I think I am pretty good at MOST aspects of it but ENJOY it? No.
But that takes me back to the career part of your first post-God knows I want to do something else but I do feel trapped in that "how do I change career at this late stage" Hell. I do believe a different job would make me happier and more content, but the REALITY of doing it is the problem. I am just not convinced there are jobs out there that provide the same (or nearly) the level of income I need (and we're not talking huge amounts here) to keep my house and provide properly for the kids. I personally am not over-bothered if I have to downsize due to a drop in income IF it makes me a happier bunny but I do care about the kids-having to leave the house would be another blow to them at a time when they've been through a lot. I know that I also am guilty of "talking myself out" of potential jobs before I even make the effort to find out more.
Anyway I'll keep working at it, the other bit I really relate to is turning "should" into "want"-I don't think anybody amongst us wants to become COMPLETELY selfish but how many times do we get annoyed at people who just don't seem to give a damn about anybody but exist quite happily? I am obviously not advocating that approach BUT we do need to start pleasing ourselves a lot more if we are to gain the happiness we seek. After all, look what running about daft trying to please everyone has done to me (and others on this forum/site etc...)
Still trying to meet these challenges head on. It's a great list Yvonne, I will keep trying to "crack it".
And Nick-once again good luck for Monday-I know you will be fine. Go in there head held high-you have no reason not to.
Gordon
Just one other thing-I do still have a sense of humour (the second last point in your post)
I was tickled recently when the kids brought me a Fathers Day card-as you know they've suffered with me and are old enough to at least partly understand what I've gone through of late.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, inside the card was a message along the lines of no matter what changes throughout the years you are very much cared about and loved etc...
Now in my emotional state I was deeply moved by this-I thought it signified a real maturity on the part of my kids and was their way of reassuring me that they would be there for me no matter what.
Determined to find this out the next time they visited I enquired as to why they chose that particular card, was there any particular significance to it?
"Oh not really" qouth youngest daughter, "we just liked the picture of the boat on the front".
Not hilarious I know and I won't give up the day job yet to go into comedy but it did amuse me and "punctured" that unique brand of "self-absorption" we can all be guilty of in our more emotional states.
And it DID make me think of taking up a career writing card inserts for Hallmark...
fretty freda
18-07-10, 11:17
awww sweet keep it up well done think winstan churchill said 'when your going through hell keep going ' xx
YvonneBelle
18-07-10, 12:11
^^^ Freda, I heard that one too, it's a great one! :D
I like that line too!!
Will keep it in mind-just going to have lunch, read Sunday papers then go a walk. Also thought I might buy myself some B12 supplements-I've heard they're good for depression?
Anyway thanks for the support
Gordon
YvonneBelle
18-07-10, 12:36
Hi Gordon,
Sorry to hear you've been feeling down of late but totally understandable. I agree that having some type of group activity or network of people around you might help during these times. I am looking to do the same. I've been thinking about volunteering some of my time to testing newly designed urban walks. I walk about so much as it is I might as well do something useful with my two feet and jot down some notes with my hands at the same time. And it might involve some group/community work too - these things are rarely conducted solo.
About the card - the kids were drawn to that card for a reason. The fact that you took comfort from the words was no accident, but the 'reality check' of realising they did it with childlike innocence just because they liked the picture is amusing but also very sweet because once you realised, you didn't mind. They got you a card with good intentions and because they thought you would like it. And as you realised yourself, that is all that really matters!
Work-wise, I've lost count of the number of jobs I've talked myself out of before even applying, so you're not alone there.
I read my horoscope today and of all the things it suggested I start up a pet-sitting business. It sounds crazy but in actual fact, that isn't too far from something I'd probably really enjoy. I'm an animal lover and rescued a young cat last Christmas and doing this felt really good. I was sad (missed the cat) but happy for her because she got what she truly deserved, a nice home. It's made me think more about entering the charity sector. I've worked for government agencies, profit-makers (both large and small organisations) but never for a charitable org. As a down-to-earth practical kind of person that loves nature, trees and animals, what the hell am I doing spending my days cooped up in a large office slogging myself into eye strain to line the pockets of the chief executives? It's now become a moral issue for me as well as the need to earn a living. How can I make a difference, earn a wage to keep myself AND be happy doing it?
That's what I'm now thinking.
I can totally understand in your case you have more to think about than just yourself - but really, if YOU are okay then there is a better chance of you being able to make a difference to the lives of your kids and to others.
It's not selfish to put yourself first every once in a while. To be totally selfish is to not even think about others. Those people are very rare I should imagine. I think most of us here think of others at least as much as (if not more than) ourselves.
I'm going to be very naughty and pinch another bit of wisdom from Suzy Greaves -
10 ways to know you're having a Bingo moment:
1. You feel sick with excitement.
2. You ring all your friends and say: 'You never guess what I'm going to be/do?'
3. You scream 'Eureka!' in the bath.
4. You wake up very excited and go straight to the computer and starting writing and researching.
5. You don't do any work at the office because you're too busy surfing the Internet for information.
6. You start ringing round colleges, training organizations or estate agents so you can find out all that needs to be done to make the leap.
7. You start noticing other people on the train/reading articles/seeing stuff on TV that all confirms that you're doing the right thing.
8. You ring up your best friend a dozen times a day because you want to talk to someone endlessly about this.
9. You wake up, remember your bingo moment and feel a smile splatter over your face.
10. You feel impatient and raring to go – your sights are fixed firmly on the future and you become very critical of the life you have now
All I can say about that is bring on the bingo moment!! That's exactly what I want to feel like.
Yvonne
Hi Yvonne
I am not an animal lover as such (I like other peoples' but reckon I have a hard enough time keeping myself going sometimes along with committing to the kids) but I certainly think in your case that would be a good route to take. One thing we do share in common is a feeling that what we are doing in our respective jobs is only truly benefitting the "fat cats"-like you I also find myself in a moral dilemma about it (I have often said to people outside the organisation that I have to "leave my conscience at the door"). May be a bit harsh here as I have never physically FORCED anybody to take a financial product and indeed my main problem is that I am good at about 80% of my job (as I should be after 28 years) BUT the 20% I am not so hot at is the sales side-this in an industry that is now obsessed with sales at all costs-so hence my dilemma. Morals aside I am also pragmatic enough to know I have to earn a living somehow.
My local Mental Health Centre has volunteering opportunities, I could only really do Sundays there as I work 5 days a week and have kids on a Saturday, (also I do need to keep SOME time for myself) but it does appeal.
My other problem is that I have only ever done the one job since leaving school at 17, I get the impression from your posts that you have moved from one job to another a bit more? So there is that "devil you know" scenario too. But my brother's a Career Adviser!! May be time to start seeing if he is any good at HIS job?!
I am going to do more research on the Internet etc... to see what else is out there because I do believe that dis-satisfaction in my present job, whilst not the ONLY factor in my unhappiness, is a big part of it and like you I feel a change would be beneficial. If only there was some wise guru over our shoulder who could guarantee you that the career change you go for is the right one and will bring eternal fulfillment and sunshine to our lives!! But life isn't so easy I know that.
Re the "Bingo Moment" if I arrive at it I'll certainly post it on here in big letters- the only thing I can say is I am "very critical of the life I have now".
Perhaps that realisation is the first small step?...
Thanks again
Gordon
YvonneBelle
18-07-10, 17:05
BUT the 20% I am not so hot at is the sales side-this in an industry that is now obsessed with sales at all costs-so hence my dilemma. Morals aside I am also pragmatic enough to know I have to earn a living somehow.How about teaching good money sense or counselling people with their finances? No sales pressure and knowledge of the finance industry is fantastic, so maybe you don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater and start all over? Think about your transferrable skills - and yes, definately talk to your brother. He will have a fantastic insight into your personality and would probably be pleased and flattered that you have gone to him for advice. Go for it!
My local Mental Health Centre has volunteering opportunities, I could only really do Sundays there as I work 5 days a week and have kids on a Saturday, (also I do need to keep SOME time for myself) but it does appeal.How about a couple of hours one evening a week? Some people commit to that for evening classes or gyms and it doesn't then interfere with your weekend, your family or your 'me' time.
My other problem is...Haha, caught you! Whatever it is isn't your problem, it's just a fact.
I get the impression from your posts that you have moved from one job to another a bit more?Yes, I've had more interviews and jobs than hot dinners. Along similar lines, but essentially down the wrong path for at least ten years. I didn't follow the path I was going to take when I first left Uni aged 30. Instead I got a 'job for money' in business stats (and I don't even like numbers!) and so began the winding path to deep unhappiness. :shrug:
However, what I have learned is that changing the scenery doesn't always change the issues I've faced. Moving jobs doesn't fix anything unless you address why you are unhappy, why you react to certain situations or people in a certain way and what really drives and motivates you; what gives you energy. If my energy starts to drain, that is definately a sign that things are not right. If you feel energetic and motivated that is half the battle. If you enjoy what you do to earn a living some people say you are lucky but others would say everyone has a choice so if you don't like it, change it! That's what I'm trying to do now. I've changed the scenery several times and just end up dealing with the same old issues over and over again. I'm now at the point where I want to change the pattern, break the cycle, take all the lessons and really and truly start changing little things in order to make a big difference further down the line.
If only there was some wise guru over our shoulder who could guarantee you that the career change you go for is the right one and will bring eternal fulfillment and sunshine to our lives!! But life isn't so easy I know that.LOL I understand what you are saying. I have made mistakes and sometimes you need to, but you also need to stay grounded and practical which I think you are. Nobody is saying run off and be a pilot but perhaps even working with your brother on updating your CV (as if you were going for the job of your dreams) might be a small step - and who knows, you might end up sending it somewhere. An employer would probably snap you up because you have shown loyalty to one firm. Where I struggle is that I haven't held a single job down for more than a couple of years - ever! And in some cases, less than a year. This all needs explaining but in your case you can show commitment but have a perfectly plausible explanation for wanting to change. You need a change and some fresh enthusiasm for your work and some new challenges - and you want to stretch your comfort zone just a little until the new zone feels comfortable.
Re the "Bingo Moment" if I arrive at it I'll certainly post it on here in big letters- the only thing I can say is I am "very critical of the life I have now".I do understand that counting ones blessings doesn't always work as a magic cure. For example, I recently took a short cut through my local hospital (on the way to counselling) and passed two wounded soldiers, one of whom was in a wheelchair with his lower legs missing. I thought bloody hell... here's me walking along as nice as you like with guys like that losing limbs and what am I doing? Going for counselling? I felt a bit ashamed actually and told the counsellor about it but she was really understanding. She said you can't always make these direct comparisons and that I was still suffering but in a different way. "There's always someone worse off than you" is a phrase that just doesn't help with depression. But I suppose we each have to find our own unique way out of our own personal labyrinth and sometimes we make a wrong turn or get lost but with enough perseverance and the desire to continue, we will eventually succeed.
Right - enough waffle from me!!! I'm of t'gym (as they say oop north) :D
Hi Yvonne
Waffle away!! I actually took a helluva lot from everything you said.
I'll try to keep this brief as I have a tendency to "waffle" myself!
I like your idea about going into some sort of financial advisory capacity (not the same as a Financial Adviser in my side of the industry, who just flogs life assurance, insurances etc...)It does make a sort of sense I guess to utilise the skills I've built up to actually HELP people-the job used to be more about that and I could enjoy that I reckon.
I WILL speak to my brother-I HAVE thought about getting him to assist me in completing my CV-along the lines of "If I do this then I might actually get off my a!*e and do something about it"-so your comments are very prescient!! I know he would be glad to help as he knows how I feel about my present situation and I'm sure he'd like to help in any way I can. Also he should have an insight into any other routes my skills could take me down.
Re volunteering I will give the evenings a bit of thought-I would be doing the volunteering for selfless reasons (honest!!) but have been told that some of the present staff at the local Mental Health Centre went on to gain salaried jobs from there so that might kill two birds with one stone-make me feel I'm doing something worthwhile AND earn some money too.
You are right that my loyalty should stand me in good stead with a new employer and I would be doing it for the right reasons (fresh challenge, more interesting and fulfilling work, dissatisfaction with present role). I feel it has now become traditional in my posts to throw a proverbial spanner in the works though!! In this case my history of depression concerns me-I know it's something an employer may ask about and there's no getting away from the fact that I have had more than a few absences with it over the years. However, I am convinced that there must be an employer out there enlightened enough to see beyond that and also take cognisance of the fact that I have been with the same company almost 30 years, so I am not someone who just jumps ship whenever I feel like it-that wasn't meant as a jibe-one ironic thing is my brother unlike myself has had more careers than I've had Chinese takeaways (that's a lot) so guess he's well qualified to be in his present job!!
Finally (and if this isn't a waffle you'd hate to see me when I get going!!) I know where you are coming from re others less fortunate than ourselves. Not as bad as the disabled soldiers you mentioned but I recently helped a friend move into local rural housing-the house had been occupied by an alcoholic with drugs issues. When I saw the state of the house and realised the way some people live I felt hellish for moaning about my own place (not perfect but a palace in comparison). But your counsellor is right, sadly there always IS someone far worse off but our pain belongs to us-in our better moments we have time to realise that our situation isn't as bad in relative terms but we beat ourselves up enough without adding to our guilt.
Right, hope you enjoyed the gym-am going have tea, have another short walk then I might just call my brother about that CV.
Thanks for the advice-it is really useful
Gordon
suzannacorfu
18-07-10, 18:50
Hi guys, I keep up with this thread because you are so very, very lovely. I don't post here often because... well I'm not really sure why!
Sadly, depression is a magical land of "don'ts", "can'ts" and "what ifs". The language of positivity is not spoken here. And if some poor lost soul wanders into our country chanting "You can do it", "Go for it", "It will be great" or other such nonsense we promptly show him the door muttering: "Bloody Nutter" under our respective breaths.
But that is ALL it is. A place where all of us on here have been, are or maybe will come again. It is NOT, however, reality.
What pleases me immensely is seeing how close you are to getting your passports and leaving!!
I sincerely hope that this does not sound facetious I promise it is not meant to be. Maybe it is just the words of someone who has a few stamps on her new passport already...
Suz
YvonneBelle
18-07-10, 21:06
I feel it has now become traditional in my posts to throw a proverbial spanner in the works though!! In this case my history of depression concerns me-I know it's something an employer may ask about and there's no getting away from the fact that I have had more than a few absences with it over the years.Well, I have similar concerns. However, in your case and with such a lengthy work history with one employer, think of all the life changes you've been through! Being married and having kids for one thing. A potential employer would expect you to have some absences during that length of time but usually they are only interested in the last 12 months. If you state that you've suffered with depression during the last twelve months to a new empoyer, likely they'll ask if you have a history of it and it might affect your application, but it's only likely to really matter to the profit-mongers. If it's NHS or some other government/non-profit org they might be more sympathetic, especially if your depression has been directly linked to work. And if you can demostrate how you've dealt with these times and what you've managed to achieve regardless, all the better.
As for the gym, yes I enjoyed it thank you. I've begun to push myself a little bit harder each time. Upping the weights slightly, using different equipment and trying to beat my previous time on the rower. Exercise does make a difference to how you feel. I love walking too - I find it so therapeutic. In fact, I became a tree-hugger on the way home! From the gym to home is only 15 mins walk but today I tried to walk with new eyes and really looked at my surroundings properly. What I noticed is the number and variety of trees. I love trees and looked at each one individually. What I noticed and felt was that they make no apology for being there, are all uniquely beautiful and even slightly magestic; especially the older and taller ones.
The thing I'll miss the most about having to move house soon (if you've been following my diary you'll know this) is the trees right outside my current home. There are four very bushy trees in front of my flat which during summer seem to join at the tops forming a wonderful roosting place for various birds. And when the wind blows their combined rustling is extremely soothing. They feel a bit like four sentries keeping guard - four gentle giants in a way. I'll really miss them. :(
Anyway... I'm pleased to hear that my suggestions have given you some ideas and that you'll be talking to your brother.
Great stuff!
Yvonne
Hi Suz and Yvonne
Firstly Suz not facetious at all- I think the one thing that has become apparent to me from Yvonne and Nick's posts (as well as my own) is how we all feel so tantalisingly close to breaking free of the bonds of depression and anxiety (or at least coping with them more effectively). It is a source of great comfort to me that there are others out there feeling the same way as I do (and yes, with the same doubts, insecurities and concerns).
Yvonne- glad you enjoyed the gym. I spoke to my brother tonight and he will help me with my CV and advise me on how best to further my plans.
I went a short walk earlier-I am interested in what you say about the trees-while I can admire the beautiful scenery which is abundant in this part of the world I never really stop to fully appreciate it-I too enjoy my walks but often feel I do it as it is something I ought to do, as a depressed person, cos we are told it is good for us. That itself tells you something about me conforming all the time, but I am slowly turning things around.
I agree that employers with a less profit-orientated view might take kinder to my history-I realise I am lucky in that I do have a job and can do my research/follow up my CV etc... knowing that I have the security of a job behind me.
I wish you all the best with your house move, never without it's stresses but I'm sure it will work out well for you in the long run.
Off to watch a bit of tv then bed I think-no work next week-I'm still on hols. Bliss!!
Gordon
Hey Gordon, Yvonne and Suz
Still really enjoying all your thoughts. In fact, I think Gordon and Yvonne should definite consider setting up a internet counselling service (!)- your postings always dovetail together perfectly, and I admire the way you both build upon each others thoughts. Right, I'll stop the fawning now !
I've got a few thoughts on what you've been saying:
question I'm asking myself just now is WHO exactly is it I'm trying to impress?
Oh Gordon, ain't this the 64 million dollar question ! I wonder if it becomes so engrained in our behaviour from childhood (wanting to please parents, teachers, peers etc) that we just carry it on into adult life. Occasionally, I've been able to snap out of it, but invariably I go back into pleasing mode and then get frustrated with myself for having done so- doh ! That's why I'm convinced acceptance of ourselves is the key to letting go of beliefs like this....
we all feel so tantalisingly close to breaking free of the bonds of depression and anxiety (or at least coping with them more effectively
Yup, I think we are all within touching distance of finding a happy, healthier relationship with ourselves, if that makes sense. I think the pennys dropping for me that I'm always going to be somebody that worries, has doubts etc. But, I can change how I deal with them through my behavior and actions, which is where Yvonne's postings about Suzy Greaves are spot on. And this is where I'm having another mini-epiphany (!)- I'm also slowly beginning to accept that this will take time
What strikes me for both of you is that you're thinking about your lives, and what you want, in an open mature way with no visible sign of any toys been thrown out of cots ! I've got no doubts that you will both move forward and find better places, which might involve changing careers. But it might not, in which case, plse don't feel that you've 'failed' in someway because you haven't made a tangible change. Sometimes, its as much (if not more) about what we think, and the way we think, rather than seeing things through to action on the ground. Hope I haven't lost you on this- am struggling with it myself !
Reason I haven't posted for a while is that I've been having a blip- increasing my doseage of venlafaxine (to 225mg) has zonked me out. So, I've gone from feeling pretty positive last Tuesday to been like a zombie- brain like treacle, increased tension\anxiety + dreadful lethargy. As it got worse last week, I began to get more anxious about going back to work today. So I decided yesterday not to return to work and emailed boss etc. Can't say I feel good about it, but I just don't think I could have stood been at work feeling like this. I'm hoping the side effects do start to diminish over the next few days, as I do genuinely want to get back on with my life. But if I'm been honest, I do feel dissappointed, and a bit sorry, for myself. I know neither is particularly useful emotions so am trying to accept things are the way they are, and that this will pass.
But, when I do back to work, I will be drawing upon all the excellent thoughts and advice you've all given me- they are still locked in my cerebral cortex, somewhere !
Take care
Nick
suzannacorfu
19-07-10, 12:49
"But if I'm been honest, I do feel dissappointed, and a bit sorry, for myself. I know neither is particularly useful emotions so am trying to accept things are the way they are, and that this will pass."
I don't know if this will help but it brought sparkling clarity to me Nick:
We are prisoners of words Nick. Words have a mutually accepted meaning which we basically all agree to and this facilitates communication (or so we believe). However each and every one of us has their own personal meaning for each word (coloured by their experiences) and many times we can take a wrong path because of a faulty meaning.
Acceptance is NOT synonymous with resignation.
Accepting embraces a very positive emotion. It is a welcoming. I was never able to "get" the phrase "Love yourself". Never. I would always say how can I LOVE this Suzi ( for not going to the dentist eg.) but then I realized that I didn't have to resign myself to her and her daft fears (which smacked of not trying to better myself). All I had to do was accept her. Then keep going.
See if this helps:
In all honesty Nick would you accept (welcome) me, Yvonne, Gordon, Hope etc? I KNOW that you DO.
So accept (welcome) Nick too mate because we already HAVE done!
WE accept his treacley brain and his being off work for the moment. That doesn't mean we want you to rest on your laurels and stay there. It means that we accept you now and we will accept you when you start work again. Will you REALLY be so very different Nick?
Suz
Nick, Suz
Firstly Amen to what Suz says in her post!! Nick to me it isn't about "loving yourself" never has been-like Suz says it's not a concept I've ever got to grips with though if it works for others I won't knock it. To me it IS about accepting ourselves-and that means the bad bits too (treacley brain and all!!). I like that description actually.
I understand your frustration re putting off work a while longer-I am the King of thinking I have got myself into a fit state to return and then to realise I am not ready for it-but think of it like this. You are on meds which you are taking for all the right reasons, you are understandably more anxious as D-Day (in the form of a return to the workplace approaches) (I've been there, I'm sure others posting here have to) but you have made a mature, realistic decision FOR YOUR OWN BENEFIT. This is important, as we all agree on previous posts we have all tried to please all the people all the time TOO DAMN LONG. A little bit of "selfishness" (or maybe more kindly self-preservation) isn't a crime. You will know when you are ready to get back.
I am currently doing without meds but this doesn't mean I am against them-they have their place and truth is I have been up and down of late and realise that if it comes to the worst I may need their help again. I too am resigned to the fact that I will always be a "worrier" but think how long we've been like that?!! It's unrealistic to think we can change all that at once (though we should never stop trying!).
So Nick easy to say I know but don't start beating yourself up about it-it's time to look after yourself and if (some) others don't like it then that's their tough s!*t. IF I have to come off work again (which I hope I don't) I feel I have enough within me to know it's for a reason and that I will make the decision for the good of myself and those dear to me and no-one else.
Re the work thing I went into Careers Scotland last night on the Interweb and typed in my details/likes/dislikes into the Careers Match section. And guess what, it picked out counselling, psychology, therapy as areas that I should look at.
There are too many "signs" happening to indicate that I should be doing something to change my work situation. I am not religious or heavily into "fate" but I do believe there are only so many times my heart (and head) tell me something before I start paying attention. I am going to get my CV typed up AND look at the possibility of doing evening classes with a view to qualifying in the counselling/therapy areas. Hopefully would be able to carry on with the present job meantime. And Nick your point regarding this makes perfect sense-if I decide to carry on with my present job at least I will have looked at other possibilities-but to NOT look into it would be worse.
Finally I do reckon that our bizarre need to constantly impress others does stem from childhood etc... but that's a whole new realm!!
And very finally-how much DOES Internet counselling pay?!!!
Waffle over-thanks again for the excellent posts and go easy on yersel Nick!!
G
suzannacorfu
19-07-10, 13:36
Gordon what can I say???? I'm just so PROUD of ya!!!!!!!!!!!
Regarding how much Internet counselling pays: not much I hope! We're used to getting it from you for free love.
Suz
Hi Suz
Thanks
As I say I really get a lot from these posts/responses and if I do manage to strike a chord with anyone that's great but it is very much a two-way street-the advice/support others have given me on here has helped me enormously.
Having said that if anyone wants to throw a few thousand quid at me then that would be cool too!:)
G
YvonneBelle
19-07-10, 23:28
plse don't feel that you've 'failed' in someway because you haven't made a tangible change. Sometimes, its as much (if not more) about what we think, and the way we think, rather than seeing things through to action on the ground.I think in some way this connects to changing our beliefs. E.g. if I believe my job is shite, it is!! :D Seriously tho, I do know what you're getting at Nick. It's a change from within.
In my case, I wish to do both; change from within but also change my career path. It's long overdue and the problems in this regard really began around 5 years ago. I should have done it back then and did make a slight change (which didn't pay as well) but instead of that I went chasing back to Bucks (and relocating!) to pursue yet another higher paid job (which I ended up absolutely hating) working for a mini-tyrant. The root of that decision was trying to put myself back in an area where I'd been happy before (as if that would work!) and was also connected to having to pay some debts. I reasoned that a better paid job in an area I liked would solve my problems whether I liked the job or not. Sadly, my 'belief' was flawed. I not only hated the job but things are never the same second time round. I was lonely in my new flat (as much as I loved the area) and soon realised that I'd made a big mistake and not only that, was away from my family. So what did I do to cure that? Went overseas seduced by another good job!? I figured I'd already moved once, so what the heck.... then *crash* I was back in the UK two months later due to the credit crunch with NOTHING. No job, no home. That was just over two years ago now and I'm only just recovering. My counsellor pretty quickly realised that most of my current feelings of anxiety and feeling overwhelmed had their roots in the past and had simply been triggered by recent events. This must have been true because I felt grief... pure grief... except what was I grieving? I seemed to be grieving my life and felt that I'd wasted so much of it on 'fruitless escapades' whereas many of my school friends on facebook were talking about their partners, families, kids and holidays. I suppose I was angry with myself for being so stupid and making such obvious mistakes. But the real shocker during my first counselling session was the visualisation of myself in the opposite chair. It was a real horror shocker... a slumped rag doll is pretty much what I saw and I felt nothing... totally disconnected. How terrible!! What did I do to deserve to feel like that? I didn't think counselling could be so powerful but it really is. Anyone reading this who hasn't tried it - don't knock it until you've tried it is all I'd say. It's hard work and can be emotional but worth it.
Wow, apologies for such an outpouring but it was meant to illustrate Nick's point about changing from within. I agree - it's important to understand how you got from where you were to where you are now and to try and take steps to rectify any flawed beliefs about yourself or your life, so that if you stay in your current job you will be fine and if you choose to leave and find another job, you will also be fine because you are making eyes-wide-open decisions about it.
But, when I do back to work, I will be drawing upon all the excellent thoughts and advice you've all given me- they are still locked in my cerebral cortex, somewhere !Me too!! :) It's like being in a virtual room, slowly bouncing ideas and thoughts off each other. I'm sure we've all got something out of it, I know I have!!! (group hug) LOL
Hi Guys
Yvonne-if I believe my job is shite it is!! Made me laugh:D, problem is that no matter how hard I try I cannot find it within myself to discover anything positive about my present one (other than the fact I've GOT a job, which I do appreciate makes me a lot luckier than many). Anyway still taking tentative steps to either "living with it" or cutting loose.
Regarding your point on counselling, I totally concur with proviso that it sometimes takes a bit of time to get a counsellor you are comfortable with, but in time it definitely CAN help in gaining insight into ourselves and looking at alternative, better ways of doing things/looking at ourselves and where we are etc...
When I started this thread what seems like an eternity ago (but is in fact just over 2 weeks back) I thought I might be lucky to get say a couple of responses/suggestions and that would be that. But I too feel it has become like a "virtual room", bouncing these ideas and thoughts off each other, and it has been a real boon to me, especially in these (still all too frequent) periods of doubt and insecurity that we all share.
I enjoy reading the postings and responding, there is usually something I take from each post, common sense tells me a thread can't go on "forever" but as long as people contribute or get some benefit from it (as I do) then I will be happy to keep chipping in with my tuppenceworth.
Got kids again from tomorrow for 3 days but will drop by from time to time to see what's happening/how everybody is doing.
Thanks again
Gordon
Afternoon all !
You'll be pleased to know that I'm putting your latest thoughts into action, so am been nice (ish) to myself and am basking in the warmth of our group hug !
Gordon- you did a splendid thing when you started this thread off. And you're right, it is like a virtual room although the chat room here is well worth popping into when you've got a mo. I've really enjoyed meeting others here and getting distracted by a shared irreverent sense of humour ! Would be good to have a chat with you all there sometime...
Nothing much to add from me on what you and Yvonne have recently posted- totally agree that counselling (if we're prepared to be totally honest) can really help us find our path. But I do worry sometimes when I see postings where people seem to be searching for the 'right' counsellor. As we know, like anything in like, there are good 'uns and bad 'uns but there is no one counsellor out there who has all answers for us. But, I do agree that its about finding someone who is sufficiently on the same wavelength to enable us to find our way forward.
Bit groggy today so plse excuse if a bit incoherent ! One thing I'd like to hear from you all is whether you tell family\friends about whats going on when you're feeling low etc.
Reason I ask is that Anna and my mom aside, I don't really talk to friends\others about how I am. So, when I get depressed and go off work, I invariably keep myself to myself and don't contact others until I'm back on my pegs. Why do I do this ? Well, I guess its part embarassment, and part knowing that there is nothing anybody else can do. I do accept that talking can help, but the risk for me is that I'd talk friends into oblivion ! Plus, from my perspective, its just another way of me deflecting away from the issues (i.e. accepting myself) by sharing with others instead. Does this make any sense, or am I talking utter cobblers ! That's why its so good to be able to post (and chat) here......
Hope todays going well with the kids Gordon- am looking forward to hearing of latest escapades ! And keep up the gym work Yvonne !
Take care guys
Nick
Hi Nick
Good to hear you are being easier on yourself-and I may take a look at the chatroom at some point. It's good that you recognise the importance of a sense of humour too-it's certainly been a big factor on my (just about) keeping going through the adversity.
Nick, I recognise what you say about friends and family, this isn't a "get the violins out for poor Gordon" moment but part of my problem is that the majority of the family part of that equation have gone for me. Mum and dad have both passed away, no wife now (and haven't yet found another woman to put up with me!!), and kids while great etc.. thankfully don't have enough understanding of this to give advice (though I do try to be as honest as I can with them). I do have a brother who sympathises but he has his own life and I wouldn't want (or expect) him to be there at my beck and call.
Which brings us to the friends part. I too find it difficult to open up, most especially when I am in the depths of depression (rather than just swimming grimly at the surface). I think this is inherent in depression itself, that we do withdraw into ourselves, yes there is embarassment but I don't think (in my case) that it's a major factor. But I do think friends can help and it can be beneficial to talk to them, even if it means forcing yourself a bit. I have a mate I play 5 a sides with who has recently been able to have the occasional coffee with me whilst I have been building my hours back up and he has been a real help with this, prepared to listen while I talk (into oblivion and beyond!!) and offer advice/a sympathetic ear. Also two of the girls I worked with in my last office have been there for me (one of whom has depression herself) and that has also been a great help.
So yes friends are important-don't be too hard on yourself when you don't want to talk (that is a natural part of the illness) BUT when you can I say seek out your friends AND family and talk-MOST I believe WILL want to listen and assist although there may always be a minority who can't/won't understand. Again though you'll be surprised how many will be there to help you through-reach out to them. Just the ACT of talking makes you feel better.
I have cut myself off from a lot of my friends through depression (and I am by nature a sociable person) and one of the things I am slowly trying to do is rebuild that "network"-I am not anti-meds/counselling etc.. at all but it is a basic human function to want to interact socially with our fellow human beings-I think for us depressives it is even more important.
You can still seek out acceptance of yourself AND share your burden with others-one thing you will find too is that while INITIALLY it may be more take than give you will eventually be able to conduct a more two-way conversation-these people have problems too you know and they might just have been waiting themselves for someone to talk to. One gratifying thing about this thread has been not just the help I've obtained from it but also the fact that I am hopefully helping others (as we are all doing on here). That's a good medicine in itself!
Anyway waffle over-I don't have kids till tomorrow which is why I'm able to take the time to post this.
Keep strong and deffo keep that sense of humour-it's important.
Gordon
YvonneBelle
21-07-10, 12:10
Yvonne-if I believe my job is shite it is!! Made me laugh:DCool! :D
Regarding your point on counselling, I totally concur with proviso that it sometimes takes a bit of time to get a counsellor you are comfortable withI must have been lucky. Mine has been great!
But I too feel it has become like a "virtual room", bouncing these ideas and thoughts off each other, and it has been a real boon to me, especially in these (still all too frequent) periods of doubt and insecurity that we all share.Yes, a great sounding board for sharing thoughts and feelings.
Got kids again from tomorrow for 3 days but will drop by from time to time to see what's happening/how everybody is doing.Eeexcellent! Have a great time with the kids!
YvonneBelle
21-07-10, 12:26
*waves to everyone* :byebye:
Gordon, Nick & Suz: will be back later to comment on your latest thoughts...
I've got quite a busy day today signing up for my new one-bed flat! Weeeee! :yahoo:
suzannacorfu
21-07-10, 13:43
Good news on the flat Yvonne!!!!!! Just remember not to pack all the "crap". Leave it at the old place!!
Guys I love reading your posts and I know I just post occasionally and short-windedly (is that a word?). Nick can however attest to the fact that once I get started I don't stop so I am trying to save your eyes and ears!
I have 2 categories of friends:
Friends and "Friends"
I find that neither group are of much use! LOL
The first group because all of this is just so FOREIGN (everyone can relate to a broken leg/hernia/lumbago but not to this) and the second because they can't relate and don't really want to either!
This is not a judgement of them I assure you. Looking back I don't think I ever gave anxiety and depression a thought before I was afflicted but I don't think I would have been much use either (yes Nick I KNOW that I am not much use now either thank you!).
So tell or not tell? Hmmmmm... well here is what I do:
I tell but in the clear knowledge and with a sense of "un-expectation". I tell ONLY to release them from any "Is it me?", "What did I say/do?" guilt trips. We should not forget that our "shutting ourselves away" can be threatening to those around us!!! If any of them are then actually of any "use" it's a bonus!
So yes Nick tell "altruistically" maybe?? "I do accept that talking can help, but the risk for me is that I'd talk friends into oblivion ! "
Hmmmmm Nick....think about that sentence????? Who is this absolute monster who talks people into oblivion??? Not the NickT I have "met" for sure!
Regarding the utter cobblers:
Yes you are but that's OK cos it's a language I understand!
Gordon it was great to see you popping in and out of Chat like a a yoyo yesterday! You might think of sitting still next time...? In, out, in, out!
See you all later guys
Suz
Hi all
Firstly Yvonne well done on the flat-and as Suz says and from personal experience leave as much as you can behind!!
What you say about friends Suz rings true for me too. You are of course quite right-before this "affliction" I too probably gave depression and anxiety very little thought, so I don't suppose we should be too upset when others prove not to be as understanding or helpful as we'd hoped. But I am still of the firm belief that it is better to talk about it than not-if we accept as Suz says that many will just not understand then when we get that person who does (or at least tries to) it is so much better. And I agree with you Suz that it does mean they can stop worrying over whether it is something they have contributed to.
Unfortunately I am going through a bit of a downturn these last few days-I have kids for three days (as of 3pm!!) so hope that may lift me a bit, but it is when they go... (Oh I know, it's like a broken record).
I respect everybodys' feelings on the meds front, I think they have their place, but they do not bring back a loved one or give us a circle of friends etc... I am saying this to myself in the kindest possible way:) but I know I am fed up being withdrawn and lonely and it is up to me to get off my sorry arse and do something about it. This past two weeks holiday has been good when the kids have been about, but pretty dire when they haven't, though I think part of it is simply that I was off for so long before my recent return that this just feels like an extension of that, sitting in the house (apart from posting on here!) doesn't exactly help either.
Anyway, self-pitying aside, I still believe I am on the right path-and I think Nick and Suz that I will pop into that chatroom (and hang around a bit longer!)-think I could do with people who understand. As for how I am going to sort myself out, that can wait till Sunday-right now I am determined to get into "kids" mode...
All the best as usual
Gordon:bighug1:
ps-that's a Scottish manly type group hug you understand, none of that soppy nonsense!!
Firstly, many congrats to Yvonne on finding a new flat- hurrah ! Always exciting feathering a new nest, providing there isn't an IKEA too close by....
Gordon-sorry to hear the past few days haven't been great mate, kids aside. You're right, time alone when were feeling low isn't necessarily a good thing, but don't be too hard on your 'sorry arse' (just quoting you mate !). The others will back me up (c'mon ladies) but I don't get a sense from the way you write that you feel particularly sorry for yourself or are wallowing in any way. Seems to me you are just (understandably) struggling at times to come to terms with some massive changes in your life in recent years. And I think it takes real courage to be as open and insightful about how you feel as you are here. So you're not a broken record, and theres no need for self flagellation- thats our role :D !!
I have cut myself off from a lot of my friends through depression (and I am by nature a sociable person) and one of the things I am slowly trying to do is rebuild that "network"-/QUOTE]
Oh yes, I recognise that Gordon ! Like you, I'm an outgoing person by nature (as I suspect many of us are, if only because of our need to be 'liked') and I'm very conscious over the last year that I've let things drift- not phoned friends, met up etc. But I do get a sense that you've developed a 'team Gordon' in terms of your brother, footy mate and a couple of work colleagues- and thats all down to you taking a chance and opening up to people. At the moment, I'm trying hard not to look too much to Anna for support- hardly fair on a pregnant woman whose 14 wks away from giving birth ! So Suz, what you said yesterday was spot on- I fully understand that she's got more than enough going on for her in terms of hormones without hubby going spaceman spiff ! Guess what I'm saying is that I am consciously trying to tread that fine line between been open without 'burdening' Anna- easier said than done though, isn't it.....
Which leads me to Suz's
[QUOTE]We should not forget that our "shutting ourselves away" can be threatening to those around us!!! If any of them are then actually of any "use" it's a bonus!
Yup, I do get a sense that some of my friends are a bit puzzled as to hy I've not been in touch, met up with them etc. In fact, I emailed a mate from colleague last week to try and explain (in general terms) why I hadn't contacted him for a while. And it did leave me wondering after why I felt reluctant to mention that I'd been ill......Ditto with my best mate- I know he's struggling to understand me at the mo. So I think I will drop him a line explaining whats going on-at least then he knows- its down to him then whether he gets back in touch or not.
Like Gordon, I've had a few pooey days, albeit struggling with meds. All came to head on monday when I just felt so 'spaced out' and edgy that I began to panic. So, I decided yesterday to go back to 187mg. Classic meds quandary- on the one hand, I did give the higher dose a fair go (12 days), but on the other hand I know there will be that part of my that wonders whether if I'd just stuck with 225mg a bit longer......! If I'm been really (brutally) honest, I do think that I'd started to convince myself that a higher dose would be the magic panacea to all my ills, and I could then glide back into work next week all magically better + be a wonderful supportive father to be to Anna over the coming weeks. And if the truth be told, I have started to panic about 'time' i.e. need to get myself to get back to work, be 'ready' before baby comes etc. And I know thats not a good place to be, cos the one thing we do have to give ourselves is time !
And finally......as Suz has banned me from showing any form of gratitude for her help yesterday, I'll just show it through the power of smiley.....:flowers:
Keep posting guys- you're all helping me, and probably lots of others too.
Hi all
Haven't checked the lottery yet-could be a millionaire as I write!
Nick-thanks for your kind comments-I haven't enough time to respond fully but they were helpful -you are right-I am trying so hard not to wallow and to build on how far I have come BUT it is difficult not to indulge occasionally.
As I say will be back with some thoughts soon but in the meantime I am going to try (again) to get my son to brush his teeth!! The joys of parenthood.
Noticed Nick that you and Suz are in the chatroom just now-haven't got time just now but would love to join you both for a "natter" at some point.
Gordon
YvonneBelle
22-07-10, 13:00
Hi guys! (& gals)
Thanks for your kinds words of support re: the flat! What a day yesterday - I was so excited to get the keys. I realised yesterday that this is the first time I feel like I've had a place of my own for over ten years! Reason being I've rented privately or stayed with family for all that time. And whilst I'm still renting (housing association) I can do more with it to make it feel like home. I can decorate as I like, hammer a nail in without risking my deposit, etc. etc. It's only small and in need of complete re-decoration, but right now, it's perfect! :)
I must admit the conversation has moved on a pace since I last posted in full and there's loads of things I could probably comment on regarding all of your comments (which have been wonderfully thought provoking btw) but I'll pick up on a couple themes:
1. Hermit mode
2. Worrying about "burdening" people, "boring" them or "puzzling" them
Looking back over the last 7 years or so I have repeated the cycle of interchanging between those two modes when I've been feeling down.
Ordinarily, friends would probably describe me as quirky, chatty, quick-witted and a laugh - but also sensible, hard-working, practical, caring, tidy, organised, honest and loyal. There is also a deeply sensitive and spiritual side but I tend to keep that amongst friends who are on a similar wavelength and with whom I tend to share the deeper and more philosophical conversations about the meaning of life, the universe and everything!
The danger for me is that during every day life I like my own space. I actually enjoy spending time alone and walking alone. However, when I start to feel down I gradually start to withdraw, even from close friends and family. I have lost two close friends through doing this by not keeping in touch and not making the effort during these times. The longer it goes on, the harder it becomes to re-connect, except for ONE friend I have known since school days. With her, I once left it well over a year before re-connecting and during that time she'd met a new partner and was expecting a baby. She couldn't get hold of me because I'd moved and changed my mobile number, so I knew it was down to me to get in touch. On my birthday last year I knew she would be thinking about me (she never forgot my birthday) and so I texted and we began chatting like nothing had happened. She explained to me that she knew what I was like and that I "went to ground" if things were bad. And whilst she was concerned she didn't take it personally because she knew I had a tendency to do this and would (hopefully) pop back up again eventually which indeed I did. However, we are now on a new footing. I told her about the depression and how I'd been feeling and on a weekly basis she has been coming round with the baby or inviting me over. We both know it won't last and eventually I'll return to work and the baby will grow but I doubt we will ever really lose touch. I've known her for 40 years, since I was three, so in that respect she probably knows more about me than even my own sister!! lol
As for burdening, boring or puzzling people - I can totally relate to that fear, but what I've found lately and have realised is that each individual can quite easily set their own boundaries. So as much as you might fear burdening them, that will only happen if they allow it to happen. You can't make people think or feel things. They do that all by themselves! So yes, you might puzzle people if you don't get in touch but that's only because they care about you. And lack of knowledge is puzzling. Not understanding something is puzzling. Nothing is puzzling if you have a clue or have some further information to go on. So by telling people even just a little bit the puzzle turns into understanding and hopefully compassion.
As for boring people - try engaging in the type of conversation that is more focused on the other person. It's still therapeutic and you don't have to talk through all of your own problems in order to be helped by the other person during that conversation. I did this with my friend. I asked her all about how she met her partner, about the pregnancy, how she felt having another baby later in life, how the birth went, how she was feeling being a mum again and just the act of engaging in conversation helped me. It was only later that I started to open up about my own feelings and regrets about how things had panned out and what had been happening lately and the more I talked about it the less power and hold it seemed to have over me. Sometimes when you speak the words it doesn't sound as bad out loud as it does in your head. In fact, you sometimes wonder what the hell you were even worrying about! And you have to give people credit for taking things on board. My friend is the perfect example of this. If I told her I'd met Richard Branson and was eloping to the moon she would simply take it on board. Very little shocks her.
I have other friends like this - no matter how bad or shocking I think things are they are more measured when I tell them, more objective because they are not in your shoes and can see you from the outside and your situation from the outside and weigh it all up for themselves.
So the upshot of all this is that I think we try to take too much responsibility for other people's thoughts and feelings and don't give them enough credit for being able to understand and empathise with your situation if only you told them a little bit. Very few people lead a perfect life and everyone has ups and downs, so sharing a fear or a concern of yours with someone else can very often be understood because many people have 'been there' or at the very least have been somewhere similar.
Wow - a lengthy post from me - guess I'm just catching up!!
Anyway, here's to a better understanding of ourselves and others.
Yvonne :)
Hi all
Just taking a breather from "kids" duty (they're watching the box and actually AGREEING on the same programme-miracles do happen!!)
Yvonne, I'm delighted you've got your flat-it sounds like it has really been a weight on your mind not having something in place and I am sure you'll get it just right. Mine has that typical "bachelor" look of pictures etc... just plonked on walls just to fill space-a career in interior design does not beckon. And although I realise I'm fortunate to own my own place (well the part that isn't due to Halifax B/Socy!!) there is nothing "fortunate" in the rapid depletion of my already struggling savings account those past few months! And having NOT won the lottery last night, that situation doesn't look like improving.
Nick-one thing that is coming across in your recent posts (espec your last one-and I hope this doesn't sound patronising cos it's not meant to be) is how you are growing in confidence and losing some of that initial insecurity that you had (which we ALL have) Quote "it's down to him whether he gets back in touch or not" and "cos the one thing we all have to give ourselves is time". Too true, and isn't it just our natures' that we want everything to be "just so" asap, well it doesn't work like that and that more realistic approach is what we all need. Also an understanding that there will be 'blips' along the way-I have had a better day today (after an admittedly crap morning) and have got a little bit of perspective back.
Nick-thanks for the words of support over my having had a hard time over the last few years, I try not to go into that too much (not through secrecy or privacy reasons-simply that we all have our own burdens and I reckon it's how we deal with them that we are all concentrating on but it HAS been hard with so many members of my family gone and I am trying to (once again) be less hard on myself and give myself some credit-my kids seem pretty happy and well-adjusted (even if they do sometimes drive me mental!) so I must be getting summat right.
Yvonne-You are quite right and I know it's been mentioned before but in our vulnerable states we are too ready to assume what others are thinking about ourselves and our plight. And the part about it being "two-way" is absolutely right-I believe from my own experience that it is initially tricky to forget our own problems and concentrate on the other person, BUT as time goes on the "process" moves on and we become less self-absorbed and more engaged in that person and their story. And yes, people are a lot more perceptive than we give them credit for.
Anyway I spoke too soon cos kids have entered "fighting like cat and dog" mode so I'll sign off. But I will return soon.
Thanks again for your support and advice.
Gordon
YvonneBelle
23-07-10, 10:36
Good news on the flat Yvonne!!!!!! Just remember not to pack all the "crap". Leave it at the old place!!Wise words suz! I know what you mean. I'm definately taking it as an opportunity to de-junk both spritually and in the physical sense. Space-wise I don't have much space for crap anyway!! It's a teeny flat but if I can include the view out of the window it's huge!! LOL
I'm also very grateful for where I've been living for the past two years. My sis got married this year and I've been living in her lovely flat which is now for sale. It's been a wonderful refuge and has given me a roof over my head. As mentioned previously, when I returned from a brief spell overseas I returned with very little apart from the few belongings I had left and a very bruised ego. I did lots of de-junking (of belongings) before I went but what I forgot to do was de-junk all of my own personal baggage. Unfortunately, I've carried that along with me everywhere I've been for the past few years.
So this should be a great opportunity to really get to the bottom of lots of issues whilst burning some energy on planning the decorating and doing some painting.
This thread is really interesting! Apologies if I've repeated things but sometimes my fingers get carried away in a stream of thoughts!! LOL
Also, I can't always recall who has revealed which pearl of wisdom, but I've definately taken a little something from each post and hopefully have added a few things myself.
Gordon - hope the kids are keeping you on your toes in a nice way!
Nick - hope your wife's lovely bump is growing nicely - how exciting!
suz - what's the weather like in corfu??? :D You are always so bright and sunny I imagine the weather is pretty much the same right now.
Yvonne :flowers:
suzannacorfu
23-07-10, 11:59
Awwwww Yvonne! ME bright and sunny?????? LMAO!!!
The weather is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar too hot but there ya go what can you do!!
Take care of yourself and will you ALL STOP apologising for talking???? You are wonderful people with interesting things to say.
Far too much apologising going on here!!! We say what we have to say and none of us is putting a gun to anyone's head to read it!!!!!!
All "sorry" words will from henceforth be censored and deleted by my good self so be warned...
Sorry,
Suz
XXX (that's one for each of you...)
boblepeche
24-07-10, 19:16
Just joined to say thankyou to Gordon and all contributers for brightening up my evening. To know others out there share the same battle with this blasted illness has lifted me a bit on what has been a difficult day.
YvonneBelle
24-07-10, 20:58
Hi boblepeche
:welcome: to Gordon's den!
Thanks for the kind words boblepeche. The "den" has taken on a life of it's own but it is NOT exclusive and has been a MASSIVE help to me at a time when I sometimes think I'm making progress only to have other days bite me on the bum!!
Been feeling a bit low as kids have gone back to their mum's and I won't be seeing them for another fortnight as they are going to their gran and grandad's on holiday (on the ex's side). I think the emptiness I feel when they have left is partly understandable but also partly a sign that I need to do more to fill the voids in my life (which I have started to do and will continue with). Still 9 days with the kids was something I didn't think I would manage just a few short weeks ago.
Have been back in dreaded "negative" territory of late-even dug out a book on CBT I bought off Amazon recently with a view to seeing if I could get to grips with it. I understand the basic principles and it does make sense but putting it into practice? That's bloody hard when you've spent so many years looking at things from the gloomy side of the fence! But I WILL try.
Back to work on Monday which I'm delighted about (and they say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit!) but I am still considering my options as far as that particular chestnut is concerned.
To Yvonne, Nick and Suz thanks again for the help, advice and support.
To Boblepeche (and anybody else) You are not alone in this-this site has been a real find to me and even if it's just to get it all off your chest please feel free to post-you will find an understanding audience.
G
boblepeche
25-07-10, 11:14
Our stories dont sound too dissimilar Gordon. I never believed I could feel so depressed and low due to someone leaving me. I feel im on the up in comparison to where I was 6 weeks ago (Hospitalised after attempting suicide). But every so often I get days on end where everything seems sooooo dark.
Hi Boblepeche
I understand where you are coming from. My kids have always kept me back from doing anything to myself but I CAN understand how it can get to that, even if I know it isn't the answer. But the great thing I have found about this site is people don't judge-they just try to help and empathise. But I hope you still have family/friends who care for you? There have been many "dark days" when I've not had the kids with me where I've questioned whether it is worthwhile ploughing on while feeling so miserable but I DO believe (as you'll see from my posts and please let me explain this is NOT a religious angle I'm coming from-that is down to each person individually-for what it's worth I'm not religious) we are tested for a reason and we can emerge from this stronger and with a clearer idea what we want from life, making any necessary adjustments as required.
I obviously don't know your circumstances, and am glad you are in a better shape than before, but someone leaving us is bloody hard (it was that way for me though I did realise things had run their course) especially when by the nature of depression/anxiety we take rejection worse than most anyway...
I know you are strong enough to get through this and do feel free to post me anytime-I know you cannot beat real "flesh and blood" friends (I still have a few-just need to start circulating again-easier said than done I know) but the people I've met on this site have been so helpful and it is a comfort to know there are (unfortunately-you'll get used to my abuse of brackets!!) many out there feeling the same way. What it says about the way we lead our lives today/society is a far deeper question and one for minds greater than mine I'm afraid.
Please keep strong-you are NOT alone in this.
Gordon
YvonneBelle
25-07-10, 21:05
I think the emptiness I feel when they have left is partly understandable but also partly a sign that I need to do more to fill the voids in my life (which I have started to do and will continue with).Hi Gordon,
I used the word VOID recently to describe how I felt when I was estranged from someone I missed a great deal. It was the only word that would do... vacuum (no) emptiness (no) longing (no) but void - yes. Void is a much larger feeling of nothingness. No other word would do. And that's pretty much how I felt.
I have a tendency to turn to food to fill me up and make me feel warm and comforted inside when I feel 'empty'. Also, food was often given to me as a reward as a child. Be good and you can have an icecream. Go to the shop for me and you can have some sweets. But other things can fill us with joy and make us feel less empty. Doing a good deed, feeling useful, knowing we've done the right thing and all the usual cliches but they do work! Keeping busy is important. I think the more useful we feel the better we feel.
I've really enjoyed stripping the wallpaper off my new lounge. My dad has been steaming and I've been stripping and I've loved it! It has inspired me to learn how to decorate. It's only a small flat but it can't be beyond me - and I'm very careful and practical. I've never really had the chance before - either a partner or landlord has done the decorating. Maybe I should do night school!! LOL I also have a good eye for colour and design.... hmmm, is this a new career coming on??? :D
Hi Yvonne
I've certainly been "steaming" before in my wilder days but as for the "stripping"-well let's keep this thread clean!!:D And you widnae thank me believe me!!
On a serious note you are right-keeping busy is vital when we are prone to these feelings of "emptiness" (voids). I really dreaded today after the "high" of seeing the kids so much this week but kept myself going, cutting the grass, nipping out for a bite to eat and a coffee, reading the papers, going for a walk so it hasn't been too bad after all.
Back at work tomorrow-mixed feelings but in a way I do miss the company (small c!)-I might not like the job but I do have good colleagues in the main.
If you get really good at the decorating then feel free to sort out my house-believe me it needs it. I just don't have the confidence to tackle it-always pay somebody to do it but it does damage my already depleted bank balance!!
One change that has come over me recently is that I really do think I am too good for my present job. That isn't a statement I make lightly-I am honestly a very un-arrogant person and am very self-depecrating so I find myself quite surprised with this new-found realisation. Somebody actually asked me if I felt I was "over-skilled" the other day and I actually replied yes without immediately qualifying or retracting my answer. Has the worm turned at last?!
Don't get me wrong I don't want to become some pompous git (I won't) but where's the harm in wanting to do something I actually get some enjoyment from?
It's still a rollercoaster ride and for every day I feel "up" and defiant there is another downer to follow but I remain convinced that I can turn a corner here-the posts from everybody on here have simultaneously moved and INSPIRED me-also convinced me to keep going and that I am on the right path.
Enjoy the flat Yvonne-the fact you are doing a lot of the "makeover" yourself will make it all the sweeter when you have got it the way you want it.
To everybody else-thanks again-a better future IS worth fighting for.
Going to get an early night-work tomorrow!
G
Just catching up on events over the past few days- this thread is become my regular 'fix' like neighbours was when I was in my teens....which was clearly some time ago !
Yvonne- I'm so pleased you're enjoying your new pad. That sense of excitement and 'anything is possible' really comes through in your last few postings. In fact, just reading them energises me ! Hopefully the stripping\steaming is now behind you (I'll leave Suz to provide appropriate innuendos) and you can now get into some hardcore P & D ! It might just be me, but I really enjoy painting and decorating- find it almost therapeutic- so if you need a hand I could be persuaded to bring my paintbrush up to the midlands !
Gordon- hope today hasn't been too hard- noise back to the grindstone and all that. I get the sense that you've enjoyed your break maybe a bit more than you thought you would, reading between the lines. And I'm really pleased to hear that you're beginning to get a sense of your own worth, especially in terms of your job. I didn't for one moment take what you were saying as arrogrance or blowing your own trumpet. I heard someone who was maybe beginning to realise that they do have a lot to offer....
I've finally returned to Planet Earth and am feeling one million per cent better than last week. I can think again ! Well, sort of ! Indeed, I'm thinking about going back to work next week, but like Gordon, I've been mulling over career options as the Department I work for (civil service) is likely to undergo 25-40% cuts over the next few years. Whilst I've worked in the CS for twenty years, I don't think that is going to count for too much in terms of dodging the axe. So, I bet you can't guess which alternative career I'm thinking of.......
....in fact, I asked my counsellor today whether she thought I'd make a good counsellor. I'd expected her to mull it over until we next met, but, she gave me the thumbs up and offered to do a reference for me to get onto a diploma\MA course. So, whilst I'm not overly excited at doing another degree (doing a masters while working F\T 15 yrs ago was not my idea of fun !), it does give me another option if I lose my job.
Yvonne- thanks for the baby wishes. Button (bump) is now getting really, really, really big- only 13 weeks to go !!!! The great thing is that I'm now starting to feel more of the excitement and wonderment of whats to come, rather than being anxious as to whether I'm going to be able to cope or not. And I think that in turn is helping Anna to relax and enjoy things a bit more. So, life is looking pretty good here too.
Will now wait eagerly for your next posts- think you both should have cliffhangers at the end to keep us all hooked for the next installment. And thanks to you all again for helping to put a :D on my face.
Toodle pip
Nick
PS- Gordon - you said :
I understand the basic principles [CBT] and it does make sense but putting it into practice? That's bloody hard when you've spent so many years looking at things from the gloomy side of the fence! But I WILL try
I don't think you need to TRY Gordon, I think you are already practising what CBT preaches.....
Hi Nick
And welcome back to the never-ending thread!
Good to hear from you and glad to see my comments re my job were taken the way they were meant. I did enjoy my fortnight more than I thought I would and really enjoyed seeing the kids-no point denying there were some "down" moments too but I do seem to be getting better at taking them as they come.
Not going to have a moan (well maybe a wee one) but being back at work today reinforced my feeling that I need to find something different to do with my life-not going to bore any of you with too much detail but sitting in a bank trying to flog the few remaining customers we have left after the "crash" to take a loan or credit card ain't my idea of fun. And Nick I think the counselling would give you (and I perhaps?) a chance to do something constructive with our lives and "put something back". After all we have that most valuable qualification of all-life experience.
Re pending parenthood all I can really say is enjoy it and put your forthcoming child above everything-easier said than done but I know from experience what can happen when we let the other things in our life get in the way. I am not going to be too hard on myself as I think I'm a good dad but I looked back on some photos of the kids when they were wee last night and some of it was a blur-I realise that work and depression ruled me to such an extent that I lost sight of what was really important in my life. But the photos brought a smile to my face too so not all bad...
But enough self-flagellating!! As a father of two I can honestly say Nick it is the best experience in the world, from them arriving into the world and onwards . There is no text book prepares you for it-but whatever other regrets I have in life I never regret having my kids-they have taught me so much and have kept me going through some pretty tough times.
Suz-I'm so disappointed to learn from Nick's post that you are into "innuendos" -I of course am a highly mature male who would never resort to that sort of thing. (What's that-I did in a previous post? Ah, curses...)OK I guess behind this facade there is the mind of a sixth-former-don't want to do down my species but us males really do never grow up...
And Yvonne I hope you are still enjoying the painting and decorating and that the flat is being transformed as I write.
As for putting the CBT into practice then Nick I guess you may be right-after all I AM trying to be positive at the moment and see my recent troubles as an opportunity, not a disaster.
To be continued....
(Well you did want a cliffhanger :ohmy:)
All the best to all of you
Gordon
YvonneBelle
27-07-10, 11:22
I've certainly been "steaming" before in my wilder days but as for the "stripping"-well let's keep this thread clean!!Haha, just thought I'd quote you again! lol I said something to an old school friend yesterday about stripping the lounge and he offered to take photos and said 'there's something about a woman that smells of turps'... haha, us women usually do our best to dress up and look nice - and yet based on that - I sometimes wonder why we bother! :D Maybe our scruffs and the smell of turps are just as effective sometimes?
On that note - progress is slow because I only have my dad to help me and he's not the best at DIY bless him and he's in his 60s, so any tips you guys can offer gratefully received! Nick - the flat is currently a small rocky horror show, believe me! Dark blue splashed all around the tiny kitchen, lime coloured lino in the bathroom.... urghhh! I have a B&Q manual somewhere - shall have to fish it out from whatever box it's currently filed away in and start some bedtime reading!
What you say is true though, I am enjoying it, even though I'm still only stripping (several layers) off the lounge. I'm trying to spread my time between going to the gym, doing stuff at home (where I currently live) and spending time in the new flat (ahem) stripping. :D I also found some great wallpaper in B&Q the other day but only two rolls so I'll have to hope they cover one wall in the bedroom (feature wall) so I can paint the rest.
This is the first time I've ever really had a say in what goes decorating-wise. I was thinking about this yesterday and I've never had a complete free-reign over decorating before. Parents, no - uni digs, no - rented accommodation, no - my own place, no (because it had just been done and I liked it) - place shared with partner, no - (and his taste was horrible and I always lost those arguments)... so even though I'm only making very slow progress - it's up to me! I can do what I like!
Gordon - I can totally understand why you might be looking for a career change. I worked for a bank for a very short time and the credit crunch was the main driver behind me leaving that job and returning to the UK.
Nick - ahhhhh, button!!!! How cute! I'm so excited for you. It must be wonderful bringing a new baby into the world. I really don't think you need to do any pre-worrying on that score. I'm sure you'll make a wonderful dad!
Thanks for your offer of help with a paintbrush. I miss having a man to help me, but like I said, I can at least do it as I please and if it takes me a long time, well pah!! As a perfectionist I'm sure I'll do my best to get it right. Typical Virgo!! LOL Any tips on wallpaper hanging? That's the one thing I'm scared of messing up cos I can't afford to keep wasting paper! I have a plumb bob rattling around in an old tool box somewhere...
[tbc] :winks:
Hmmmm....good cliffhangers guys:
Will Gordon walk into work, insert resignation notice into Manager (where sun doesn't shine) and walk off into the sunset to become top- notch Counsellor....????
Can Yvonne master the art of wallpaper hanging to create stunning feature wall.....????
Well, I'm gripped now ! Thank you both for the lovely thoughts about parenthood- made me glow just reading them ! And I found it very moving what you said Gordon about looking at the photos of your kids last night- all my senses tell me you were, are, and will continue to be a wonderful dad to them. I think its precoded it your DNA !
And Nick I think the counselling would give you (and I perhaps?) a chance to do something constructive with our lives and "put something back". After all we have that most valuable qualification of all-life experience.
Yup, I'm buying that Gordon. Seems to me we've all got the prerequisite 'people skills' (god, hate this kind of terminology !) in terms of being able to listen, empathise and offer thoughts\reflections. Moreover, I think we all realise that we can't 'fix' people based upon our own experiences. Everyone has to find their own path. But I do think we can all help others to find that path. Gosh,thats almost philosophical.....
Maybe our scruffs and the smell of turps are just as effective sometimes?
Well Yvonne, we could be heading back into venus\mars territory ! Attraction is so subjective, isn't it ? But I'm with you in that what attracts me isn't necessarily about dressing up (but don't get me wrong, Anna in a lovely dress certainly works for me !) but more a sense of vibrancy and energy- thats what I find attractive.
And it seems to me that this nest of yours is going to be very liberating for you. Who knows, it maybe the catalyst for real, lasting change thats puts you onto a happier, healthier path. Thats certainly the impression I get from you.
Well, I managed to get out on my mountain bike today on the north downs and had a cracking time :yesyes: ! It was great to be in the middle of woodland with no one else around, just peddling away furiously getting nowhere !! Really pleased I got out- in fact I played AC\DC on the way back in our little micra as I pootled along the M25- very Wayne's World...!
So, all that remains now is to decided whether I go back to work next week or not.....cue eastenders musak !
Take care guys
Nick
Gordon and nickT
What wonderful words, so true and insperational..ive just decided to take my first propanalol. i was given them a year ago but thought,if i start taking these things ,i have failed...ive just realised i and only i have been beating myself up for years,i am 45 and its just acured to me that i could carry on beating myself up for maybe another 20 or 30 years .i have friends that have quite happily taken meds for all sorts of things,so why do so many of us find it so difficult to except help...im going to take them..hay whats the worse that can happen. :))))))
Hi all
Yvonne first-"Cliff-hanging" I can do but wallpaper-hanging? Believe me you really DON'T want any advice from me on that one. And all this talk of stripping off layers is making me think I am on the wrong website:blush: But I enjoyed your update on the decorating and as Nick says I think it is going to be good for you-a fresh start in more ways than one.
Yes bank life is not wonderful just now-if it ever was-but do I have the "balls" (metaphorically speaking!) to make the break? Well that's my personal cliffhanger I suppose. If only I could do what is so popular in films these days and film two seperate endings, then choose the one I like best. But still pondering it and whatever I decide I will not beat myself up about it.
Nick-I'm hardly Hollywood idol material but I quite like the image of me walking into the sunset having just er, inserted, my resignation in the appropriate receptacle!! Glad you liked what I said about parenthood, it does have it's ups and downs but I wouldn't be without my two (although I would be considerably wealthier!) And I do think I could make a go of counselling, just that fear of breaking free after almost 30 years with the one organisation that plays on my mind (along with a million other things of course). And the image of AC/DC blasting out the windows of your Micra is a good one. I'm more of a "punk rocker" myself (Hey I'm 45!!) and often switch on a bit of "Anarchy in the UK" when I'm feeling a bit low. It energises me and fills me with self-righteous indignation but then I laugh about the image of a 45 year old bank clerk taking to the streets to cure the country's wrongs. Hell, that's too big a job even for us!
Have just had a humorous flashback to a newspaper headline I saw after having (finally) achieved my dream of seeing the Pistols at the SECC in 2007. Having witnessed the amount of people carriers/suv's leaving the show afterwards the tagline went "Anarchy in the NCP car park".
And Nelly-welcome to our little world. As you will know if you've read my posts I am off meds at the moment but do not really know if it will last. Like me you're 45 and fed up of beating yourself up all the time. It does take time to change our old habits and there is absolutely nothing wrong (imo) in using meds if we have to-I have used them before and while I'd like to remain med-free if possible I wouldn't rule it out or be against using them again if need be. It is certainly not failure on your part, have the courage to go with your gut instinct. One thing I have learned (in common with many on this site I'm sure) is that the world and their dog will offer an opinion on the pros and cons of meds/going med free but we are INDIVIDUALS-and only we can do what we feel we have to do to make life easier for ourselves. I actually have a mental image of certain friends in my head just now, some screaming I'm a fool for coming off meds and the others saying smugly "I told him to come off the pills".
So Nelly that's my extremely long-winded way of saying go your own path on this one-and I really hope life gets easier for you. You'll find plenty of sympathetic people on here that's for sure.
Signing off now-cliffhanger not coming to me so will just leave you with Nick's Eastenders music-dum, dum, de de de de de de dum.....And if anybody analyses THAT to see if I got the de's and the dum's right then you truly have got problems even I can't imagine:D
G
YvonneBelle
28-07-10, 00:24
Hi guys and gals! <insert Jimmy Saville impersonation> :D
Just popping in to say I'm still really enjoying your posts and agree that this flat decorating project is the beginning of real and significant change. I'm really excited about the transformation that will occur very gradually but will be worth it in the end!
Nick - I like the sound of your bike ride (love trees!) and ACDC on the way home - haha! Just imagining you headbanging at the traffic lights...
Gordon - I just missed the punk era (only just!) and I did like some of it but the music of the early 80s takes me right back to secondary school days! I can still see myself roller skating round and round to Spandau Ballet's 'true' at my local YMCA (no pun intended!) - and no village people involved either. :)
:welcome:nelly
Anyway, I'm going to keep this short because I've been having a lot of trouble getting to sleep lately on citalopram so I've just taken my first low-dose sleeping tab...............
Now then, now then boys and girls (cue Jimmy Saville Yodell.....) !!!
As all has been quiet on the posting front, I'm assuming that Gordon, youre deeply emersed back in the world of work, and Yvonne is too busy with her wallpaper paste to offer her usual insightful musings.....! So, I'll just have to tell you what I've been up to instead.......
....which involves seeing a Careers Advisor yesterday. Strange, isn't it, how these people make you feel 15 all over again, or maybe its just me ! Suffice to say, after 50 mins of headscratching, we concluded that:
i) everyone in S.London wants to be a Counsellor- she'd already seen 3 people on same theme that day !!
ii) I'd probably have to do another post-grad qualification (diploma\MA)- groan !
iii) It might be worth thinking about life-coaching....Despites its 'money for ole rope' image, apparently, the industry is starting to self-regulation itself, set up courses etc
iv) I need to get some more volunteering under my belt
v) seeing a Counsellor counts towards entry on a course !!
So, think I came out feeling the same as when I went in- mildy positive !
In terms of getting on a course, some Unis require you to have done a Counselling Foundation course (normally 3 month course)- apparently the Open University do a good distance learning course......
Lets keep swapping info Gordon. I was quiet intrigued to read that occupational Counsellors can earn up to £100k !!! That'd keep the Micra going in petrol for a while.....
And I do think I could make a go of counselling, just that fear of breaking free after almost 30 years with the one organisation that plays on my mind (
I know Gordon, its a big step. I'm just wondering whether you'd be able to go part-time\compressed hours to ease the transition.......
Went to see 'Inception' at the cinema after with a mate- :scared15:. All I'll say is, if you're looking for a distraction, it'll certainly take your mind of things.....
Now back to my cliffhanger........have decided to go back to work on Monday. I feel much better this week, and just think nows as good a time as any to dip my toes back in. Just want to get back now into the 'real world' I guess. Plus, Anna's on maternity leave from tomorrow, and I know that there is no WAY she'll want me around spoiling her fun !
Ok, gotta go and pick Anna up- hope you're all well guys
Nick
Hi Yvonne and Nick
Yvonne-hope the decorating still going ok and that you are getting to sleep better now-as Nick has surmised I am (unfortunately) deeply immersed in the world of banking the past few days. Saw my GP today and think he thought I was about to walk into the bank and pack it all in there and then but I assured him I was simply considering my options.
Really interested in what you were saying Nick about the careers adviser/counselling options. I haven't dipped my toe in the water too much re the counselling but I did get in touch with COSCA (who are the Scottish arm of the counselling industry) and it was pretty much as you say at your end-loads of people qualifying and not enough jobs for them to go to. They did mention that a lot of people go self-employed though. I am still definitely interested-don't know whether the reduced/compressed hours is a goer but I could look into it. As usual part of me just says "go for it" but walking away from my present job is a big step-if it wasn't for my kids I'd go in a minute, but longer term it might be to their benefit. Oh quandary, quandary...
Life coaching-yeah I'll look into that-although only £100k? Don't think I could handle the drop in salary:D
Don't know the film Nick-I am guessing it's a horror?-I don't go in for them much as I reckon life is scary enough:ohmy: But you never know I might give it a whirl.
And I hope you get back to work as planned-I reckon you will feel better if you do manage it but with my track record am certainly not going to "lecture" you on that front. But getting back might ease your mind a bit as you decide where you go from here career wise.
Keep in touch both of you and Nick look after Anna-I've never been pregnant personally but I'm told it can be quite tiring...
All the best
Gordon
ElizabethJane
29-07-10, 19:05
Hi Gordon I was a teenager in the punk era but unfortunately I knew that the music wasn't for me. Strange though as I like 'The Clash' 'White Riot' and also 'Radiohead' transcribed for piano. My hubs was and is defintely still into punk. In those days he was a grammar school punk ie at the weekend. He came to one of my parties with ripped trousers held together by safety pins. Until then 'punk' was something we took to guide camp to light our fires with. The reason I'm posting is that I have had a real pants day at work. I can understand you wanting to do something different Gordon. I'm fortunate that I'm not the main breadwinner but I enjoy my job. I work in a shop a small family business. We have had a complaint about one of my colleagues but my boss is on holiday in France. I have tried ringing him. It is just the opportunity to talk as I don't think he can do anything at the moment. We don't was to lose business as last year was very difficult. We can't afford to lose customers. They could go elsewhere or to the internet. We still try to provide personal customer service. As I am paid not more than the minimum wage I lack the customer skills to calm the customer. I did my best and my colleague took over not doing much better. It is difficult as this colleague is well over retirement age (in his seventies) but not being effective anymore and taking on himself to dictate what our policies to customers are. Even if he has made lots of mistakes (which could be permissable or forgiveable) being rude to a customer is not. Even if they are a pain in the neck. Enough said. Feeling a bit low and fed up. Hope my boss rings up for a chat. Good Gordon I'm glad that you are feeling better.
Hi EJ
It's good to hear from you. Strangely enough I was just thinking about you the other night and wondering how you were getting on as I know you've had a rough time of late. You really helped me out when I first started posting on NMP and I want you to know how much I appreciate the advice you gave me.
Don't think I'll ever grow out the punk thing-I can see myself "pogoing" at 75 (if I live that long!!).
On a serious note I understand what you say about your job. Having had a foot in both camps (working while married with children and now working while divorced) I can see there are problems with both scenarios.
I think my problem is that I am not particularly well paid but it is enough (just) to keep my house going and meet my commitments. I spoke to my kids the other day and they both know I'm not happy doing the job I'm doing but they both also stated they loved the house and didn't want to lose it. And there's the pressure-I don't have much spare savings so if I was to study for a new career or get a lower paid job (which I might enjoy more admittedly) then I might have to give up the house. Personally I wouldn't be bothered as it has stressed me out since I bought it and I have lived happily in flats before but I bought it primarily for the kids and myself to have an easier life than them staying over in a cramped flat-in that respect it has been a success).
So a lot to think about-I really hope your own work (and other) issues ease for you-life isn't easy-I think I am getting better but there are still a lot of down moments.
Take care EJ and keep in touch
Gordon
Oh and meant to say EJ if it's any consolation I know all about dealing with customers who are a pain in the neck!! Keeping the old gob shut sometimes is difficult-although fortunately we have a lot of nice customers too!!
G
ElizabethJane
29-07-10, 20:02
I am very fortunate to have job at all as I am a sufferer of major depression. I am supposed to be part time ie 27 and a half hours but this week all day Saturday and an extra full day ie 9am to 5.30pm next week plus 4 hours on Saturday. My husband is a financial regulator and always dreamed of early retirement but sadly now not possible. He would like to do horticulture or keep bees. Dreams at the moment.
YvonneBelle
30-07-10, 11:52
Hello to the ever-growing list of people stepping into Gordon's Den! :winks: Really glad that you are all keeping it alive and well and popping in for the occasional chat.
Gordon, I hope being back at work is at least bearable. On the bright side - it's Friday!!! You now have the weekend to relax and (hopefully) keep us up-to-date with your postings.
Nick - I had to laugh at your follow up Jimmy Saville intro - what a legend he is!! lol
EJ - I love the idea of hubbie's dream of horticulture and bees - how lovely! I reckon bees need a lot of TLC at the moment. We need them (and butterflies) much more than we realise. I love bees (except I wouldn't want one to sting me) but wasps..... arghhhh! run away!!
Well, my decorating progress is sloooowwww and I don't really have the funds to just pay someone to do it all for me. *sigh*
However, I've decided to paint the whole lot stone and treat it pretty much as a single space using different colours in each room to break it up slightly (e.g. feature wallpaper on one wall in the bedroom, different coloured pictures dotted about... etc.). It sounds posh but it isn't! (trust me) but at least I can clean and freshen it up a bit using the soft neutral effect. Less is more - that's my current motto!! :D
Well, I actually resigned from my job yesterday! So now I'm en-route to claiming benefits in the short-term but hope to return to work soon. I might just use every bit of support that comes my way from the government and then take something with slightly less hours if possible. This should free up a bit of time to continue settling into the flat and gradually re-introduce me to the workplace whilst still having some energy left over to get on with other things whilst having the basics covered. What I want to avoid is any more build up of stress because we all know what that does!!! :ohmy:
I'm fully in support of you guys (Gordon and Nick) for investigating ways to get into your chosen careers. It's not easy but thinking long term and taking small steps is probably the key. I need to do this myself in fact... and at least I've finally realised that I simply CANNOT allow myself to go back into my old field because it's never going to change. I've learned that over the last ten years. There is no place (not even top companies) that has it all figured out. I've unfortunately wasted a lot of years being unhappy at work but now is the time for me to spread my wings and think what shall I do?
Not having kids or a mortgage does make this easier, however - I do regret how life has passed by so quickly and I have no kids, partner or mortgage! So Gordon, whilst I understand any transition that you might wish to make will be so much harder taking kids/house into account, nothing is impossible if we really want something and put our minds to it.
Also, I do believe in fate a little. Not that every single thing is out of our hands and pre-ordained necessarily, but I think we have little nudges and cues that set us off on different paths at just the right time. It might be a dream, a person, a chance conversation or meeting but I think all of these things 'conspire' to ensure that we are where we are meant to be in life, doing what we came here to do. How many times have we all thought 'if I hadn't said this, done that or met this person then this would never have happened?' Sometimes it's a good thing, at other times not so good, but it all fits together somehow. Even a bad relationship can lead to better ones... you have to be available at the right time for someone else, things have to line up but until they do, sometimes bad things or bad times happen in between. But I truly believe that nothing stays good and nothing stays bad either. We are all in motion, somewhere on the wheel. Sometimes on the up, sometimes at the top, or other places in between. This is why I think we should savour the highs when they happen so we are strong enough and balanced enough to be able to handle the inevitable lows.
Anyway - as much as I'd love to set the world to rights, crack a bottle of wine and talk you all into oblivion, I have some more work to do in the flat!!! :D
Hope everyone has a great weekend,
Bfn,
Yvonne
Hi all
Yvonne-I'm not sure if you exactly congratulate somebody on resigning from their job but I do think in this case congrats might be in order. It sounds as if you have thought about it long and hard and your recent postings on here exude confidence that you can finally find a job that suits your personality and above all one that you enjoy-and you are right-the top companies do not have it all figured out-indeed it is the so-called financial experts that have got us in this bloody mess in the first place.
But I'm not on for a rant-I think your post makes me realise that we always feel the grass is greener elsewhere-I totally understand your regrets re not having kids at this stage in your life (though believe me mortgages are way over-rated!!:D) and as I've said before I love mine to bits. (the kids, not the mortgage!!) But I envy you the "breathing space" you are going to have as you seek out that "perfect" job-I hate the sales pressure of my current role and would gladly take a breather to consider my options but I am in that dreaded maintenance/mortgage/kids etc... "trap" which makes "breaking free" that much more difficult. ( I don't consider recent time off I had a "breather"-anything but!) I think my main fear is that if I continue in a job where the pressure is getting to me and I struggle to cope (not to mention the tedium!!) then it all may become academic as I may be unable to continue in such a job eventually anyway. But I know that the other side of the fence ain't perfect either. So I will plough on and keep considering my options, I'm not sure I want to be still trying to flog disinterested customers credit cards in 2020!!
Once you have got your flat just so there is a rather delapidated three bed semi up here in Bonnie Scotland you could turn your attention to!!
As I've touched on before, and in relation to your last point, whilst not being a religious person I do believe that we get certain signs and "cues" (your word) at points in our life and I certainly believe yourself, Nick and I are getting plenty of them just now. I guess my personal "cliff-hanger" is ongoing-whether I will summon up the courage to change course at this (relatively) advanced stage of my "career" (used in the loosest possible sense!!) and move on to something I can get fulfillment and satisfaction from. Watch this space as they say, but I am sure in your case you have done the right thing.
Will really miss the kids this weekend but am going to try and keep myself as occupied as possible-it's the local Highland Games here and as is traditional on this particular weekend it is pissing doon-but then nobody ever came to Scotland for the weather.
Nick I trust you are fine too and that you are looking after Anna and the "bump"-keep me informed of any life-changing decisions you make job wise!!
All the best as always
Gordon
YvonneBelle
31-07-10, 10:19
I think your post makes me realise that we always feel the grass is greener elsewhereTrue (to an extent) especially when you are in the same field (no pun intended!) but I also think there is sometimes a strong case for fundamental change that involves viewing the same field slightly differently or changing to a fresh paddock in order really hone and develop those skills that have been getting rusty or to develop some new skills under different direction.
Even though many job changes haven't work out for me I have experienced different types of organisation, different managers, different house rules - but the type of work and the expectations have remained the same. There's the rub. I need change but not for the sake of change or because I feel the grass is greener, but because deep down I know that I need to. It's equivalent to a calling rather than a whim. I think the best way to know what career suits us best is to think about what we really enjoy doing and what we are good at. In my previous jobs there were elements that I liked and enjoyed but HUGE chunks that I absolutely hated. Over time, this is soul destroying. As nice that the people have been that I have worked with (some of them) there have also been a huge number that I've intensly disliked. I think the more you do something you like and enjoy the more chance you have of meeting like-minded souls and the more chance you have of forming good networks and helping each other out in teams. When you don't click in that way with people at work they almost feel like foreigners and on a different planet from you. That's when the isolation tends to set in and you start feeling like a mole or something or that you don't really belong there. Well, at least that's how it's been for me - maybe you can relate to some of that?
Making change is not easy but I think it's typically fear that holds us all back. Some fear is healthy I agree, to keep us safe from harm but I also reckon some fear holds us back whether intentionally or unintentionally. For example, I'm pretty sure I've remained single for a long time for fear of being hurt. But, tipped on it's head, I may have lost many years of potential happiness through something that I've told myself might be true. And remember, if I believe it, it MUST be true!! LOL
Hope I haven't sounded too much on my soap box there but I'm trying to explain how I think fear of change can be a real inhibitor. We almost invent reasons for not doing things without double-checking with ourselves (or others) to make sure that what we think or believe is actually likely or even all that much of a risk. Going through change can be stressful but also very liberating! And I would say it's much better to go through planned change (however scary) than risk the rug of life being pulled from under our feet completely and without notice. Now that IS stressful but I believe this sort of thing can happen when we have shut ourselves down and are not reading the 'signs'.
But I envy you the "breathing space" you are going to have as you seek out that "perfect" jobAhh, it's interesting you say that, because I'm no longer looking for the perfect job. However, I am looking for a good job with minor flaws that I can enjoy (even just a little bit) and as long as it pays the bills with a bit left over I really don't mind if it's not perfect. I have previously sought perfection and it doesn't exist. There is always a fly in the ointment wherever you go, but I'm now going for the 80/20 rule. As long as it's 80% most of the time with only 20% worth of crap (or less desirable) things to deal with, then I'm sure I'll be fine. I have mistakenly been seeking some kind of employment 'utopia' for over ten years! But the harsh reality is, I was doing this without recognising that the the type of work I was doing was fundamentally wrong. Unless I get that part right, all the jobs in the world will never help me to be happy and fulfilled in gainful employment. :D
"trap" ... "breaking free"it does feel like being a prisoner when circumstances seem to prevail. But think again of all the experience you have built up over the years and all of the skills you have developed. I'm sure the reality is that you could probably take your pick of jobs or even become self-employed. I have come across many people out there in higher paid positions than me with surprisingly little professionalism. I have high expectations of myself and others and I'm truly shocked by the number of times I've witnessed poor or unprofessional behaviour coming from my superiors at work. I've often thought 'if they can do it, I'm sure I can'. Act as if until you become... that's something I find very hard to do. I'm not a showboater or a blagger like some people I've witnessed. But really, I'm sure any one of us posting here is truly excellent at our jobs but we probably give ourselves an uneccessarily hard time due to our own high expectations of ourselves.
I don't consider recent time off I had a "breather"-anything but!Awwww, no way! Time off due to illness is so very hard... even to get through each day!
my main fear is that if I continue in a job where the pressure is getting to me and I struggle to cope (not to mention the tedium!!) then it all may become academic as I may be unable to continue in such a job eventually anyway.My strong advice to you would be to not let it get to that point. If you had a niggling ache or pain would you delay going to the doctors or listen to what your body is trying to tell you? I suffered something close to a breakdown through ignoring the signs and repeating the cycle of getting the jobs for which I was most qualified rather for which I was most suited which spiralled into severe depression which then rose up and swamped me completely like a dark blanket. Like it or not, I'm now out of work but I WILL survive. If I had kids and a mortgage I would probably still survive but things would be a lot harder. However, there are support services out there (which I'm beginning to discover for myself).
But I know that the other side of the fence ain't perfect either.The other side of the same fence? :winks: Or maybe.... the other side of another fence... the one where you can see yourself being happy at work?
Once you have got your flat just so there is a rather delapidated three bed semi up here in Bonnie Scotland you could turn your attention to!!Haha, maybe I'll be the next interior designer you see on tv doing makeovers... lol
I guess my personal "cliff-hanger" is ongoing-whether I will summon up the courage to change course at this (relatively) advanced stage of my "career" (used in the loosest possible sense!!) and move on to something I can get fulfillment and satisfaction from.I'm 44 this year and quite happy to wipe the slate clean career-wise. I still have all my knowledge, all my experience, all my skills. Nobody can take those away from me. But I have plenty of life left in me and the sort of mind that enjoys learning new skills. We all assume that we've got loads of time but none of us really knows how long we've got. Life's too short is a well-worn phrase, but also very true.
Will really miss the kids this weekend but am going to try and keep myself as occupied as possible-it's the local Highland Games here and as is traditional on this particular weekend it is pissing doon-but then nobody ever came to Scotland for the weather.Haha!! Hope you have a great weekend. Sounds like it could be great fun - rain or not!
I'm off to do some flat cleaning in preparation for paint. :)
All the best everyone,
Yvonne
Morning fellow mentalists....
Am sitting here with cup of tea, bacon, egg and sauce butties- does life get any better than this.....??!
Yvonne- like Gordon, I'm pleased (!) that you've resigned and free'd yourself up for your next job step, whatever that maybe. One thing I'd say on the no mortgage, marriage, kids front: my wonderful aunt (i.e. now married to my mum's bro) was in the exactly the same place as you at 43. By 45, she'd met my uncle, got married and was pregnant (unplanned !). So, my motto is you just never know whats around the corner. And sometimes, when we actually 'let go' of wanting something, lo, what then turns up....
Which brings me to fate:
Also, I do believe in fate a little. Not that every single thing is out of our hands and pre-ordained necessarily, but I think we have little nudges and cues that set us off on different paths at just the right time.
Absolutely Yvonne. Like you, I don't believe in fate in a 'there's nothing we can do' sense, but I do believe we get out of life what we put in, and sometimes we get a little 'bonus' for our efforts. Seems to me your entering a new, exciting stage of your life where anything is possible- I'm getting excited for you just reading your posting ! And I can't wait to here how the stone\colour feature approach works out....
Gordon: I guess you're in that difficult place at the moment where the push and pull factors of changing your life all seem to balance out at the moment. But maybe that might change in future, and suddenly a path might reveal itself that you hadn't expected or seen before. I know this sounds a bit zen-like (!)- guess what I'm trying to say is lets keep scoping out options as a time might come when circumstances change, allowing you to go for it.
Reet, just finished me sarnies (fat tummy now !) so am ready to tackle putting up curtain pole in button's room. So, if you here a drill and cursing in the next hour or so.....:) !
As for my cliffhanger, defo going back to work on monday. Feel anxious but that's fine- I know I'm going to be OK and I've got a few coping strategies ready if I find it overwhelming. Plus, I've got all your sterling advice from earlier postings to draw upon !
Have a good w'end everyone. Now, where did I put that diamond tipped drill bit....!
Afternoon Yvonne and Nick
Just been out to the local cafe for a spot of lunch and a coffee with a mate-Nick you are quite right-ye cannae beat a bacon buttie-not that I want you to think I conform to that terrible stereotype of the typical Scot with the cholesterol soaked diet-now where did I put that deep-fried Mars Bar??!
Anyhoo, taking Yvonne first (as it were).:blush: Don't know about being my personal interior designer but you can certainly be my online therapist! Though I have to admit the pay isn't very good...
I kinda feel the same way on the job front. Slightly different in that I never went to Uni (long story short six miserable years at Secondary school left me with an aversion to any type of Further Education) but I am fairly well qualified (hey I have my Bank Exams which is more than the head bummers of the major banks were able to say when they went on "trial" not that long ago for the mess they left the economy in).
But I fell into the Bank at 17, it certainly wasn't something I dreamed of doing as a boy. But as I didn't have the looks (or indeed talent) to be an international rock star and my local crappy SPL team never came calling at my door that was the path I took.:mad:
Yvonne, I don't really have some Utopian idea of the "perfect" job either. I certainly have never had delusions of grandeur or worries about "status" BUT I have come to realise that I also took on the bank job because that was the type of job a lad like me was EXPECTED to do, as at that time being a joiner or a sparkie was considered by others (not by me) as being a bit beneath what I should be aiming for. The irony is of course that some of the nicest houses in the small town I live in are owned by joiners etc...
But I have met many nice people through my work (including my ex-but we won't hold that against them:D) but as you say Yvonne too many *******s too.... And what do you get from *******s? ten tons of sh..yeah you get the idea.
There is a point to this-much as the counselling route or something in that ilk is my preferred option, I actually quite like the idea of being a postie!! Yes a postie. Not quite as well paid as my current role but if I could eke some sort of small pension from the Bank then that plus postie salary would leave me roughly where I am just now. And most of the local posties seem fairly content. Unambitious? Maybe (that's for others to judge) BUT look what being in a large corporate entity has done to me. And anyway, if the postal service isn't all I had hoped, it would leave more scope to study for these counselling qualifications. On that note I have recently enquired about volunteering opportunities at the local Mental Health centre, on an altruistic level it's dear to my heart, on a more pragmatic level it wouldn't do any harm on my CV if I decide to go down the counselling route.
The point is and as Nick alludes to so well in his post I am "scoping out" the options and that is a good place to be-at least I am contemplating a change of direction. And much as I love the kids and would do anything for them (as any parent would) I have to consider my own happiness-as Suz said back at the start of this (never-ending?!) thread a happier Gordon means happier children too.
I like your word "calling" Yvonne-I don't quite equate it as a "road to Damascus" moment but I do think I am being called upon to do something different. It doesn't totally scare me though what you say about fear holding us back does ring true.
Nick-good luck with the curtain pole-if it was me the language would be bluer than the average "rap" concert but I'm sure you'll cope. And good luck again with going back to work-you'll be fine I'm sure.
Am going for a walk now-no way I'm taking the car out as during Highland Games week the main street in this sleepy hollow becomes busier than the M25! (AC/DC and headbanging optional:)).
Keep in touch chaps (and chapettes)-your posts have done more for me than any meds recently.
Gordon (it really is Anarchy in the Trossachs the noo)
Just realised they have (quite rightly!) bleeped out the word in the middle of my "spiel" but I'm sure intelligent folk like you can guess it. That's the BOTTOM line....
YvonneBelle
31-07-10, 21:10
mmmmmmmmm! I'm now bitterly regretting not picking up some bacon and fresh bread for tomorrow's breakfast! Might have to persuade my dad to treat us both to a brekkie somewhere tomorrow morning before we get our sleeves rolled back up!
Nick - ahhh, button's room!!! (That's all I'm saying, so cute). :winks:
And yes, I reckon I could shock everyone within the next couple of years... marriage, kids, cat, dog, two guinea pigs (Fred and Ginger) and a rabbit called Buster probably... not sure about the kids' names (or even the husband come to that!) nor the cat and dog... ah well, who knows? It'll be fun figuring it all out I'm sure. :D
Gordon, I'm flattered that you think I'd make a good online therapist for you... and I practically yelped when you mentioned being a postie! The same thought actually crossed my mind only today!! Haha... I was looking out of the window this morning, watching our postie and I was thinking I bet he walks for miles in all weathers but not a bad job when you think about it. Yes, why don't you?? Absolutely nothing wrong with being a postie and if it buys you a little time to scope out other ideas then why not? I think it's a great idea! You might even love it and keep the job longer. When I was living in Oxfordshire I saw some great legs on some great postmen during the summer... lol, so it must keep them fit and healthy!
Hope you have a great weekend guys and good luck Nick for Monday (not that I think you will need it!) :)
Hi Yvonne
Think it will take more than being a postie to improve my legs:D But the exercise would do me good if nothing else.
I have gone into Royal Mail's website and asked for them to email me if any jobs (not just postie but any post related) come up in my area in the future-there don't appear to be any at the moment.
At least it's another possibility for me to consider.
Enjoy your weekend and hope the decorating is coming on well.
G
suzannacorfu
01-08-10, 20:12
Hello hello,
I just popped in to pass my sparkling eyes over the posts and check for any "sorries" that needed deleting!!
Glad to say that none were found. I did, however, notive something VERY interesting.
Since I dont follow the thread "religiously" (being far too busy keeping NickT amused in Chat mainly) something very special JUMPED OUT at me here tonight.
You are ALL so much HAPPIER!!!!!!
Maybe you all know this but I thought I'd mention it just in case...
Look at the start of the thread and the end! It's like 3 different people talking!
Good to see guys,
now I must leave you all again because Nickt is getting too frisky again,
Sigh
Suz
Hi Suz
Don't know if it's safe to leave you alone in that chatroom with Nick...
They say that talking helps when we are down and I think this thread has hopefully been a sort of technological equivalent of that, in that we are working out our "issues" together and becoming stronger and more assured as we go along.
Having said that have had a bit of a downer today but as usual coming on here and reading other peoples' posts etc has helped me get a bit of perspective back. And yes, I didn't go through every single post but you are right there is definitely more positivity at the end than there was at the start.
Might pop in for another "chat" sometime-in the meantime gearing up for work tomorrow (now that is depressing!).
But I'll keep smiling.
G:mad: oops sorry that should read:) Get your deleting button working now!!
Dear potential posties !!!
Ok- I want to be a postie as well if you two are going go be.... LOL ! Seriously though, I do think its an excellent idea. Having done a few stints at royal mail as a student, I can attest to the less demanding nature of the job, although I do appreciate things have changed in terms of their working practices over the past decade. Whilst I really don't want to be a party pooper, I'm pretty sure the Coalition Govt are planning to part-privatise RM, which I suspect will result in 'efficiences' i.e. job cuts. That said, sometime will still have to deliver them letters.....
Though it pains me to say, I guess Suzy is right (again-curses !), we are much happier. And whilst thats partly down to our own endeavours, I do think its also partly a reflection of where 'Gordon's den' has led us. Just reading about your exploits, whether it be DIY makeover or career scoping, has I'm sure helped to bolster my resolve. So heres to team therapy :yesyes: !!
Back to the cliffhanger- first day back at work was OK. I managed not to dribble or shout randomly in the middle of the office (result !), and once I'd nailed my feet down under the desk I was fine...... ! Chat with manager will be tomorrow, but interestingly, one of my colleagues took me to one side and asked me if I was Ok and what had being up. Now in the past, I'd have played it vague, but this time I took a leap of faith and said I'd been anxious\depressed. He then offered to help me with work, and said he'd was happy to continue acting as line manager to a colleague (who works for me) IF I wanted him to. Everything told me he was been genuine, so I accepted his offer and thanked him. Guess what I'm saying is that I'm pleased I took a chance and trusted him. As I've said, in the past, I wouldn't have been open, and I think that was in part driven by some pseudo desire to maintain the purity of me not being well (i.e. no point telling anyone as they wouldn't understand, So I'll just have to carry my cross alone). Whereas now, I think the penny's dropping that I don't have to travel on my path in spendid isolation......
Righteo, enough navel gazing. Final thing:
(it really is Anarchy in the Trossachs the noo
Pure genius Gordon, pure genius......:D
Nick
Just back from kicking a football about very badly but it's exercise I suppose. In tribute to my favourite group and my possible forthcoming career move think I might rename this thread "Never Mind The Trossachs-Here's the Sick Posties" Ok lame I know but it's been a long day.
Anyway, enough drivel. Most importantly well done on getting back into work today. I am sure you feel better for it and I think you were right to go on your "hunch" regarding your colleague's concern. I have been very open with my own colleagues about my own situation-on the basis that I believe the more we talk about this the more any remaining stigma will diminish. And as we've said before, people can surprise you. And it can be a lonely enough path, without taking whatever help you can get.
I am sure the meeting with your boss tomorrow will go ok too.
Suz is right-we ARE getting there-anxiety rather than depression is my main problem just now but it does seem to ease as the day goes on. Just keeping that perspective when I do have the odd bad day that's the problem.
Anyway, having proved my (in)-ability on the footie field it's time to toddle off to get some kip.
Keep in touch one and all
Gordon
YvonneBelle
03-08-10, 19:34
Hiya peeps! Glad to hear you're all sounding so positive. :yesyes:
Gordon - I understand what you say about trying to keep perspective on the down days. This is hard. I was thinking about this recently - it's very hard to come out of a certain frame of mind sometimes. No matter what anyone says you sometimes just have to ride it out and hope that tomorrow is another day and that you'll feel better. I've had loads of really crappy days at work etc. in the past but all you can do at times is sleep on it. Literally sleep it off and wake up the next day with a brand new slate. Each day is after all a new opportunity to start again.
Nick - so pleased your first day back was okay and good for you for explaining what you are suffering with and what support you need. It takes a lot of guts to do that so you can hold your head up high. I bet others will secretly admire your honesty and willingness to get on with things regardless. Not everyone would openly admit such a thing for fear of being judged incorrectly. I think that was an important step forwards you made and long may it continue! :)
Suz - thanks for keeping us all going and proof-reading our posts for any stray bloopers! lol We need someone casting their sparkling eyes over us every once in a while just to make sure we're heading in the right direction, which I believe we are.
Well, decorating still continues but goodness me - how time consuming!! Trouble is I only have the energy for a few hours each day and the time literally flies. I've scraped and scraped and plugged a multitude of holes and today I skimmed over rather a large piece of broken plaster with some multi-purpose filler after getting the worst off and sweeping off the loose debris. However, I think the worst of the preparation is now over. My dad has started painting but he can't join me again until Thurs so it's just me and mum again tomorrow and I'm hoping that between us we'll get the bedroom at least undercoated in white.
Once again I'm going to share somebody else's words of wisdom in my next post. I've been going through paperwork the last few days and came across one of last year's magazines called More to Life which I think I picked up from a local fayre. At the time I wasn't suffering with depression but the centre pages caught my eye. (Hence my sorting of paperwork is also taking time because I keep reading things and flipping through old magazines.) :D
Yvonne
YvonneBelle
03-08-10, 19:53
By Juliana Glanfield, More to Life magazine, Issue 7 Spring 2009.
If we can look into our lives and see them more as a play, we can maybe ease the condition of depression a little for ourselves. Each part of us is our journey through life, one part as important as the other and depression is just as an important part of our learning, as a joyful moment is.
Being depressed tells us that we have actually journeyed to the point at the bottom of the stairs where we have everything piled on top of us, the weight we feel being our life to this point.
It is a point of review, of what we can let go of, one box at a time, to ease our load, make us lighter, and climb the stairs less loaded, one step at a time.
Each step out of depression is a journey into a new way of being, but we must take one step at a time, as we miss the journey if we rush to the top.
When we reach the top of the stairs and stand on the viewing platform, we see ourselves and our loves from a very different perspective. We are renewed, which has been the point of the journey.
On each step of the staircase we need to gather others to help lift us to the next step. Ask and those who we need to support us will be shown to us by the Universe. You may be looking in your favourite magazine, or walking past a billboard and an advert or an article will suddenly stand out to you. It can be words, a particular food, practitioners, supplements, colours, plants in nature, animals, it can be absolutely anything.
When this happens, have a moment of stillness with what you find, and it will tell you if it is the right thing for you. Then make a point of contact with it, phone a practitioner, walk in nature, buy and eat the food, enquire about the supplement, look up the words etc.
It is as if you are putting on another pair of glasses, through which you see things from very different eyes. Gradually your 'sight' will return and all will be seen from a very different platform.
Remember, one step at a time, with the support that shows itself to you.
I have reached the viewing platform and the world is a wonderful place, it doesn't mean I don't still have an occasional wobble!
But once you have completed the first steps you never forget the journey.
Remember also that all things on this Earth are equal, and each soul whatever their form can at sometime develop depression, when they reach their bottom step of review. So when your Rabbit or your Fish look glum, give them some extra kindness, love and support, speak gently to them, give them some encouragement, as they too need help with evolving up the steps to the viewing platform.
Sending you all Blessings of Growth and Peace
Don't know about you guys but I really enjoyed this article! I feel like I am actually on the steps and heading steadily towards the viewing platform with the help and support that is beginning to appear. :)
YvonneBelle
04-08-10, 10:18
Morning cliffhangers! :D
It's interesting how a few of the themes we've been discussing were mentioned above - in particular asking for support and looking out for signs or cues as I called them. When reading this I saw myself about 3 or 4 steps up on a staircase that contained around 10 steps. I find that interesting because whilst I'm seeing progress I also know there is a way to go yet but now I'm reassured that I don't need to rush it.
I was saying to my mum only yesterday I don't feel like we've done much today and she said yes we have, progress is being made but it's not immediately obvious. When you've picked and scraped a wall for hours it doesn't look like you've done much but then when you stand back you notice how much cleaner and fresher the wall is looking. I guess I'm just keen to see it all finished but really, what's the rush? I think I need to learn to have a bit more patience with myself and others and I have always driven myself a little bit too hard and it's interesting to see that this tendency is still there, even whilst I'm recovering from depression.
So today, whilst mum and I are going to visit the flat again I'm going to take it steady and not feel that I'm up against any sort of deadline because the reality is - I'm not. I just need to get one room done so that I can move in and the room is only small and the walls are not as bad as in the lounge area so it shouldn't take long before it's finished. And my dad is back tomorrow.
Anyway - the article I reproduced is perhaps a little 'new age' for some people's tastes but nevertheless it appealed to my visual side because I could relate to that very well. And I do believe that asking for support and putting thoughts out there that you need help does attract people and situations into your life that help you to move forwards.
After all Gordon - if you hadn't started this thread and explained how you were feeling, probably hoping for a bit of help, support and understanding then we'd never have had such fun along the way with our banter and cliffhangers! :D
Hope you all have a good day. I'm off to get ready for some more.... (drumroll....) decorating!!
Yvonne
Evening earthlings !
Not much from me tonight I'm afraid- am feeling rather knackered from the massive 4 hours a day I'm spending at work !! I feel a strange mix of i) really pleased to be back at work (as another step on Yvonne's stairs), ii) anxious about going back into 'wanting to please' mode and iii), slightly embarassed about having been off from work. But, I'm not ruminating on any of them. Instead, when they pop into my brain, I simply accept them and allow them to drift through the large cavities in my head (!) and out into space.....
Yvonne- thanks for sharing 'lifting the lid on depression'. It is a bit too mother earth for me (which just reflects my middle age male prejudices !) but the sentiment is absolutely right. I particularly like:
Each part of us is our journey through life, one part as important as the other and depression is just as an important part of our learning, as a joyful moment is.
I really believe this. And whilst I wouldn't go as far as saying that I'm pleased to have experienced been depressed as a way of growing (too machochistic even for me !), I do think that they are opportunities for us to change our behaviours and values....In my case, Anna calls it 'growing up' !!
Hope the flat decorating continues to progress apace. Have to say Yvonne, you did make me chuckle with the pollyfilla -I've soooo being there ! :winks: And I have to confess that I'm curious as to how youre thinking on jobs is going to evolve......
Gordon- hope your pootling along OK. Talking abour 5-a-side footy has got me thinking about monday lunchtime, when I can start playing again- yipeee !
And thank you both for supporting me getting back to work- Gordons den has served me well !
Bye for now
Nick
Hi all
Yvonne-I didn't find the article too "new age" at all-I actually feel that it IS like taking a step at a time, trouble is I'm rushing the steps again!! And wondering how much I have really learned and "corrected" about my behaviour.
The point you make about your tendency to drive yourself too hard is one I can empathise with only too well. I have been doing it myself these past few days, getting fraught at work-today completely knackered me-when I got home I got a communication through re a bill that hadn't been paid due to my giving wrong credit card info-not such a major thing and easily fixed but it was enough to start that whole cycle of "Why me, why does everything always go wrong etc.." A real "throwing the toys out the pram" moment, and frankly ridiculous, but a sign that I am some way yet from mending my ways.
Truth is I am finding work really hard just now-past two days I have been really upset (not fortunately in front of colleagues) but have managed to just about keep a lid on things. But really on edge at the moment.
I don't really want to get too much into the meds/non-meds debate-I don't have a strong viewpoint either way as I know we agree we have to individually do what we think is right but thought you might be interested in some (very non-scientific) observations from my own experience of having (very recently) come off meds and trying to do things on my own.
PROS-I definitely am less tired and less inclined to take naps/crash out etc... (when not at work!)
I feel more alert and my concentration is better.
I feel the whole range of my emotions (this can also go under the CONS bit as I'll expand on in a sec)
And obviously no side effects-my libido is slightly better too (just need to find somebody to use it on:D)
CONS-Anxiety at times through the roof
Really deep "down" moments during which I get really upset BUT seem to bounce back a bit quicker than I used to? I think.
Really panicky and nervy at times
As I say I don't want to get too heavily into this and I don't make any judgements-fact is I am struggling a bit just now and may have to look at meds again. Apart from the side-effects (which we all hate) my main concern is that I know they can't replace the people in my life that I have lost, cure loneliness etc... (No violins, just my thoughts on the matter).
I feel the lack of company in my life leads me to exagerrate the significance of other factors in my life-don't get me wrong I DON'T enjoy my job and WOULD like a change but I also think I have got myself into a TOTALLY negative standpoint on it-there are good bits about it as well.
I still think I am making progress despite this and want to continue to try without meds at the moment but I rule nothing out. I think biggest favour I could do myself is to slow down and take these "small steps" rather than trying to rush myself into recovery-it WILL take time. And getting a perspective on these minor setbacks without turning them into major disasters would help too.
Am aware this has been a bit more "moany" than previous posts and a bit more geared to my own situation but needed to get it off my chest.
Nick-I haven't had a chance to ask yet but hope the meeting with your boss went ok?
Anyway chin(s) up we are all still on the right path and as Yvonne so rightly says tomorrow is a fresh start!:)
Bye the noo
Gordon
Nick
Your latest post just "popped up" as I finished my last one.
I am really glad you are doing ok at work-I totally empathasise with the "mixed feelings"-that's only natural and mirrors how I feel about my own recent return. Accepting that these feelings will surface is the key, absolutely.
And yes- get kicking a football about-it is the one thing I do which allows me to temporarily forget my worries-playing crap football is very therapeutic!!
And guys/gals-apologies (oops Suz will be in here with her marker pen!) for the slightly downbeat nature of my last post-just been a really hard couple of days.
I do still believe we are all going in the right direction.
Off to watch some telly then bed.
Gordon
YvonneBelle
05-08-10, 00:09
And whilst I wouldn't go as far as saying that I'm pleased to have experienced been depressed as a way of growing (too machochistic even for me !)Haha Nick "machochistic" - I think that was perhaps a Freudian slip up there.... lol :winks:
But I agree, I wouldn't ever choose to learn my toughest lessons via depression, but then again depression IS (for me anyway) a consequence of ignoring various gut feelings and telling myself that things are okay when really they are a long way from being so. And then you get in this awful rut and begin spiralling, and before you know it, you feel completely 'wired' and as if your whole being is somehow on a hair-trigger for the floodgates to open. I felt so fragile and vulnerable - just like a lost child with tears constantly welling. Very difficult to look at yourself in the mirror and see that when you're 43. But now when I look in the mirror I see that mischievous twinkle that used to be there before which is very reassuring. I just hope it remains once I do eventually come off the meds.
Being on meds (Citalopram) has definately removed that feeling that if I start crying I'll never stop... but, I'm having to take sleeping tablets due to mild insomnia and my libido seems to have sloped off somewhere to hibernate! :lac:
Gordon - you don't have to apologise for getting things off your chest! We all understand those feelings you described but it doesn't mean you are not still doing well. You are just finding it understandably difficult if you are having to deal with feeling upset at work without letting on. I know from personal experience how much hard work it is to put on a brave face at work and have to take 'breathers' in the ladies loos just to compose myself if things are beginning to crowd in. In today's world there are lots of space invaders... people, phones, computers, emails... and if you are feeling the slightest bit down or vulnerable they all sound like megaphones. It's really hard work and jangles your nerves and then when you come home you feel exhausted and fit for nothing.
If you choose to return to meds or if you choose to continue as you are nobody would think any the less of you - it might just be something that you need to figure out on your own or with your doc. I don't know, there might be some sort of happy medium, but I think if I started to feel a 'wobble' I would now be much more inclined to try and nip it in the bud and deal with it a lot quicker than I may have done in the past. I know what my own personal signs are... withdrawing, eating too much, feeling tearful and sometimes being snappy with others through sheer frustration. Also, I walk around with my head down and rarely make eye contact. I'm trying to break that habit now that I feel better but I've got that used to it that I still rarely meet people's eyes in the gym and places where I don't know people. And yet, if I'm sitting opposite a friend or member of the family I keep eye contact for ages and find it really comes naturally to do so. I guess I'm still a bit shy with strangers... that might the the root of the eye contact thing. And yet if someone speaks to me or asks me for directions I engage with them no problem at all.
I should imagine in your line of work you are having to deal with people all the time, maintain eye contact and retain a certain level of professionalism. No doubt it's years of practice that sees you through but I bet it's more difficult when you don't feel 100%. I would find that very hard so don't feel that you are being downbeat or anything. In a thread like this I reckon it's important to tell it how it is, because there is bound to be somebody that can relate and getting it off your chest always feels much better!!
Anyway, my sleeping tablet is just starting to filter through (which is probably a good thing seeing as I seem to have written War and Peace) so I'm away for some zzzz's. :D
Tomorrow's another day!
Yvonne
Hi Yvonne and Nick
Well today was a bit better-no real upsets and got through my tasks ok so I'll chalk that up as a success.
Nick-I agree that depression is a helluva way to learn about ourselves and make the required changes in our lives but like you both I do believe that is what it's there for. Interesting point you make about Anna saying "growing up"-while I hope we would all agree that is a rather harsh viewpoint (no harm meant to Anna, I suspect she's pulling your chain a bit!!) I do sometimes think there is a petulant side to my behaviour sometimes which is almost childlike. As you know I don't subscribe to the "inner child" theory personally and tend to see us as one individual unit with the good and bad bits of our nature contained within. Nevertheless I am kind of hoping that these episodes I have been having of late (the slightly extreme "toys oot the pram" moments!!) are maybe the last desperate acts of that childlike part of me (which we all have, maybe us males especially!!) trying to keep me grounded in my old ways of feeling persecuted and put upon rather than letting me break free and accepting life with all it's attendant ups and downs. At least that's what I'm telling myself anyway:)
Yvonne-thanks for your words of support-they helped me a great deal as the last two days have led to me questioning whether I was actually getting anywhere at all! It is difficult putting on the "game face" at work when sometimes you feel like screaming in frustration but to my credit I have managed by and large to maintain that professional stance-and yes I have had plenty of practice!! And how I agree with your comment re phones, computers, emails etc... they can send you over the edge when you are feeling vulnerable-not something our parents had to contend with (well not the emails or computers anyway) technology is wonderful in so many ways (this site for instance) BUT it can be a double edged sword at times. And it's funny, it has become an almost subconscious thing with me but I AM able to switch on that altered persona for friends and acquaintances at the drop of a hat, whilst struggling with the rest of the population.
So still monitoring myself daily but today was more positive-hope you both had good respective days and that Yvonne your decorating is progressing apace. Nick-I hope work not doing your head in too much!!
All the best
Gordon
Hi di hi Campers
Its Friday -hurrah :yahoo:!
Right, before I start my wibbling, I have to say Gordon that you have ABSOLUTELY NO NEED TO APOLOGISE. See How I've used caps there to emphasise my point....!
Thing is, this is exactly the place where you should feel free to vent\rant\blow gasket etc. And I regard it as a priviledge that you choose to share how you're feeling with us all. Its never easy to face up to how were feeling at the best of the times, let alone when thinga are tough. I really admire the way that you not only describe how you're feeling, but also challenge why you're feeling that way- to me, that takes courage. Ok, the lesson endeth now.....
...but I did want to pick up on a few things you've touched on in recent postings:
I actually feel that it IS like taking a step at a time, trouble is I'm rushing the steps again!! And wondering how much I have really learned and "corrected" about my behaviour.
Steps are a good anology in the sense of progression, but maybe less so in terms of physically having to make the effort to climb then. I guess what I'm trying to say is maybe just allow yourself to float up, rather than climb, the steps. This might seem pedantic (and paradoxical !) but I think part of the trick for us is to just accept more and try less. From my perspective, its the physical effort of trying to be, and doing things differently, that I find exhausting. So whilst gentle prompting of ourselves at times to try new things is importsant, it needs to be tempered with not been too demanding. And I do get a sense at the moment Gordon that you're may be been a tad hard on yourself. All my senses tell me you're well on the way to getting to a better place because your open, honest and genuinely want to be happy.
my main concern is that I know they can't replace the people in my life that I have lost, cure loneliness etc...
It takes a lot of guts to say that Gordon. And I guess been brutally honest, you're right in one sense, although I'd argue that acknowledging this is a big part of you moving forward. You right to say that you can't replace what you've had before, but you can create an alternative life that is happy and fulfilling, albeit in different ways. And I think you've started to do that already.....
I am kind of hoping that these episodes I have been having of late (the slightly extreme "toys oot the pram" moments!!) are maybe the last desperate acts of that childlike part of me (which we all have, maybe us males especially!!) trying to keep me grounded in my old ways of feeling persecuted and put upon rather than letting me break free and accepting life with all it's attendant ups and downs.
Maybe they are the last acts of an empire in decline Gordon ! But equally, they may just be aspects of our behaviour that will come to the surface from time to time, irrespective of what we do or think. So maybe breaking free is more about accepting they'll show up from time to time, and treating them with the lack of interest they deserve..... Please don't take this as me being provocative Gordon. Its just that, like you, I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and its left me reflecting whether moving forward is as much about accepting the old ways (when they occasionally pop up) as it is thinking and behaving differently.
But now when I look in the mirror I see that mischievous twinkle that used to be there before which is very reassuring. I just hope it remains once I do eventually come off the meds
Yvonne- I found this really moving. I suspect that now you've reclaimed your 'mojo', its very unlikely you'll let go of it again. And I expect a full weekend update on DIY progress.....
Righteo, gonna leave you both in peace now as am still knackered from work ! Might post something on sunday about my first week back if any thoughts have seeped into my brain cell by then !
Have a good w'end
Nick
Hi gang
Nick- thanks for your thoughts on my last posting-you make some very interesting points.
I probably am being too hard on myself (not easy to break the habits of a lifetime!) I AM placing too many demands upon myself, rather than just going with the flow a bit, but the part which resonated with me the most was when you talk about perhaps accepting that these old and less desirable aspects of my behaviour may just be something which will crop up from time to time. This was a kind of eureka moment-it made me realise that by the very act of NOT ALLOWING myself to have these moments (ie-oh I must get rid of that side of me) I am actually PILING MORE PRESSURE ON MYSELF. Realistically it is nigh on impossible to change every negative aspect of my (our) behaviour, ingrained as it is in my psyche over 45 years after all. So yes, I reckon you are right Nick-it is as much about accepting we will have these moments and not mentally crucifying ourselves when we do. But also of course to find a more balanced perspective later on.
Yvonne-as Nick puts it glad to hear you've got your mojo back!! And a DIY update is definitely in order too.
Thanks guys-it's been a tough week but your responses and advice have made it a lot more tolerable than it might have been.
Kids tomorrow which I am pleased about as I've really missed them this past fortnight.
Keep in touch
Gordon (going to bed now)
YvonneBelle
07-08-10, 19:14
Hi guys,
Yes - mojo is definately back, but I can't wait to see what I'm like without meds! I'll have to wait a few more months for that though...
For the first time in ages I felt kind of sickly today... not sure whether it was tiredness or hunger or meds but I woke up early and decided to stay awake with my mind whirring with all of the things I need to get done.
I went to the flat with my mum to do some more painting this morning (it's such hard work and I don't think I'd prep'd the bedroom walls properly... because the sheen from the old paint keeps peeking through... arghhh.)
I realise I should have probably treated it with some de-glossing solution but the wall was half paper half paint previously and I thought sanding the top half would be enough, but no. Shall have to see how it goes tomorrow but I'm regretting cutting that particular corner. And the walls in general are so shoddy with echos of previous colours from times gone by... mostly dark blue and dark orange unfortunately! And a wishy washy green... :unsure:
Any clues how to hang wallpaper on a painted wall? Half of the wall (the top half) has got this sickly green with a slight sheen to it and I'm wondering if/how it can be prepared for wallpapering fully from top to bottom. I'm just papering the one wall and painting the rest.
I realised today that I haven't got endless energy and do feel tired sometimes. In my mind I can do loads but when it comes to it - decorating is wearing me out!! It's all the stuff you have to do, even clearing up, washing brushes, wrapping them up so they don't dry funny, washing the trays out, putting the paint away... etc.
And now this sheeny/green wall is giving me grief...and the old paint is all cracked around the window frame... :shrug:
Anyway - I digress from the great insights I've been reading from you guys and agree that we all have certain traits that are very hard to change but recognising them and not rising to them or giving them power is how I interpreted that. Just a neutral voice in your head... 'oh, it's you'. Mrs Uppity or Mr MardyPants. LOL (you get the idea).
I've got some challenges coming up. I've got to phone my old boss (arghhh) and arrange a time to go in and hand over all my work belongings. Jeez, that'll be fun! (NOT). And I've also got to keep on top of all the messy stuff around changing home address etc. PLUS trying to get to a stage of actually Moving In (even if my entire world revolves around the bedroom in the short term, not something I can claim to have experienced in a while, I can tell you....) :blush:
Anyway Gordon, just so you don't feel left out - it's my turn to be below par today.... (booooh!) and rather than apologise, I'll just say yeah, what of it??? LOL
Hope you have a great weekend with the kids, and Nick - it would be great to know how your week went on reflection.
Yvonne :)
YvonneBelle
07-08-10, 19:39
Oh, just one more thing (Columbo moment)... I meant to comment about 'floating up the stairs' (hehe). After stifling a giggle for a few seconds... :) I did understand what you meant Nick in that progression shouldn't feel like too much of an effort or like climbing Mount Everest!
When I think of it I don't actually see myself climbing the stairs more like standing on a particular step until I feel I'm at the next step (however I got there, whether I floated or stepped up, but either way it wasn't hard).
It's like each step (for me) feels more like a milestone. Like I'm standing on a step (still on around 4 out of 10) and suddenly one day I might feel like I'm standing on step 5. All the tiny steps I take in order to progress from one level to another I don't count... I just suddenly become aware that I've progressed and sort of give myself permission to reach the next level... a bit like a platform game. You do all this stuff, dodge creepy crawlies... shoot baddies, avoid getting splatted and then you get through to the next level. That's how I view these steps. At some point I've shot enough baddies and collected enough power to be able to progress to the next level having learned where all the pitfalls are and how to avoid them.
Hmmmm, that might be utter crap that just flowed out of my brain but I'm still going to post it anyway because I'm having a slightly low day and now I'm just wittering!!! :whistles:
Hi Yvonne
Sorry to hear you are not having such a good day today-if it's any consolation at all I seem to be swinging from one ok day to the next being a crappy one-and sometimes just one day can have all sorts of variables thrown in:) But it sounds like you are being as positive as you can about it and looking at the longer term picture which is always a good thing.
Re the flat I understand your frustration but give yourself credit for at least picking up the brushes etc.. and having a go-and I'd love to help with wallpaper advice but really not my area of expertise I'm afraid. I tend to get somebody in to do it all (an expensive option I can't really afford) and at the moment the house is 50% pretty good and 50% bloody awful but am trying to keep calm about it-though it does get to me sometimes. While I'm grateful for the benefits the house has brought it has been a major source of stress for me too. And my bedroom doesn't look too clever either, not that there's anybody else in there just now to judge it:whistles:
Anyhoo enough "wittering"- to use your phrase-I empathasise with all the crap that goes with a change of address-one year on and I am still discovering companies I never advised/getting mail for previous occupants. They say it's one of the most stressful things you can do (they obviously don't support my local footie team!!) and I reckon they've got it right. And I sympathasise with the exhaustion bit, for entirely different reasons I am absolutely cream crackered the noo, mainly that the return to full hours at work is taking it's toll energy wise but I persevere. And the place is so bloody disorganised at the moment-but trying to ignore that and just keep myself in there.
Know it's not easy but try to remain positive re the decorating-it is to your credit that even though you are not maybe at 100% capacity you are taking it on-there will be setbacks (a DIY metaphor for life?!!) but I am sure you will get there with it. And if all else fails you can always bankrupt yourself and "get a man in" (as it were):blush:
Re the steps I reckon we are both stuck on number four or five!! It IS a learning curve and just when I think I have put certain of my more negative traits to bed up they pop like naughty children trying to avoid going to sleep.
Which segues seamlessly to my day with the kids-mainly good, nice walk, out at the park, plenty of fresh air (and a rare day of Scots sunshine-24 was the temp on the car gauge this afternoon-heady days!!) As usual though not without the odd moment of doubt, anxiety and worry but kept the heid pretty well overall. And they DO bicker like cat and dog-much as I love them-so that time I shouted at them I'll forgive myself for.
Keep strong Yvonne (and Nick)-tomorrow IS another day and we are getting there I truly believe that.
Gordon
alicegreen
07-08-10, 20:54
Any more updates from you guys?
I just stumbled upon this epic thread and it has made me smile for the first time all day.
Hi Alice and welcome:welcome:
When I first started this thread I was simply looking for some advice on coming off meds and whether I was on the path to recovery from this dread illness. Thought I might get a couple of responses at most and would have been happy at that.
Certainly wasn't anticipating an "epic" but it does seem to have taken on a life of it's own-and there is usually something to take from each post so have been keen to keep it going and respond when I can.
It can't be underestimated how much it has helped me in my recent difficulties-and I am glad it made you smile. Although the subject matter can be undeniably "heavy" I have said from the outset that a sense of humour is vital in maintaining some sort of perspective on things.
Thanks again for your kind comments and keep dropping in as often as you like.
Gordon
alicegreen
07-08-10, 21:56
Hi Gordon, I guess that I am at the opposite end of the scale now as I am about to see my GP to start medication (after plodding downwards for 8 months)
I know what to expect as I have been depressed before, but I have never had anxiety like this in my life and the panic attacks are a totally new and overwhelming part of things.
I will keep checking in here, this forum seems really supportive :o)
YvonneBelle
07-08-10, 21:59
Know it's not easy but try to remain positive re the decorating-it is to your credit that even though you are not maybe at 100% capacity you are taking it on-there will be setbacks (a DIY metaphor for life?!!) but I am sure you will get there with it. And if all else fails you can always bankrupt yourself and "get a man in" (as it were):blush:Haha I nearly did but then I called him off. I'm not v.well off at the mo and need to conserve as much £ as possible, but also, I really want to try this DIY even if I make mistakes (which I will) and just hope they are not too costly! At the moment I've only really spent on paper, paint and a few brushes/rollers, plus bits n bobs and my own time whereas the professionals usually charge a hefty daily rate for their labours and too right since it's bloody hard work!! Hence progress is slow but I do feel good about having a go at it and am (sort of) enjoying it most of the time. Have also had some quality time with both parents and a few laughs along the way. :)
Glad you had a good day with the kids. I think you'd have to have the patience of a saint not to shout at them sometimes but kids soon move on and come back for a cuddle, don't they?
I don't feel too bad now since I managed to locate a B&Q DIY book that used to belong to an ex. I've often considered chucking it out but then thought no... it might come in handy one day (no pun intended!) and true enough, I was sorting through some boxes earlier and there it was!
Flick flick flick and I'm recognising lots of pictures (flaky paint etc.) and lots of tips for dealing with common issues. I just need to add a sanding block, some coarser sandpaper and some sugar soap to my shopping list and I should be fine!
First stop B&Q tomorrow... good job I live within walking distance! I'll probably be there when the doors open (how sad!) :D
Thanks for your words of support Gordon and interesting how we both see ourselves as being level 4/5. Room for progress, which is good - and also good to have some idea of where you think you are at the moment in terms of your own progress.
Don't worry about work being disorganised - all you can do is try your best to be organised yourself - screw em! Let them be disorganised... it's their problem but I do undersand how frustrating that can be. And working full time hours IS hard.
I know it sounds like a luxury I can't really afford but I'm going to try working less hours in my next job and see how that goes. Even just slightly fewer might make a difference and I'll just have to try sticking to a smaller budget!
Hopefully the weather will be nicer tomorrow - I got absolutely soaked earlier! And hope you get some sunshine too (the noo). I only said that cos it rhymed! LOL No idea what it really means... my poor attempt at Scottish!
The noo= just now
As in "One is absolutely cream crackered just now"
There endeth the lesson:)
G
YvonneBelle
08-08-10, 10:17
Och aye the noo!!!!!! :D
Off to B&Q...........
You could be a poet
Except ye dinnae know it!
Anyhoo have spent the afternoon "roaming in the gloamin" wae a lassie by my side (sadly that last part isn't true) and am now going out to cut the grass.
Hope B and Q went well
G
See what happens when I leave you two to your own lyrical devices.....!!
Alice- welcome on board ! Please feel free to chip in, as its definitely a case of the more the merrier. And if you've got any DIY advice for Yvonne, even better..... !
Any clues how to hang wallpaper on a painted wall?
Nope Yvonne ! But one top tip I've picked up is where you've got an uneven\glossed wall, its often easier to cover with lining paper and then paint over. Works a treat !
I did understand what you meant Nick in that progression shouldn't feel like too much of an effort or like climbing Mount Everest!
See, you've done it again Yvonne- said it far more eloquently (and shorter) than I can ! But I am pleased it struck a note with you both. If I'm going to be honest, I blagged 'floating' from Clare Weekes book on self help for nerves. Somebody recommended it to me when I joined NMP, and I have to say, its excellent Whilst its a bit 'dated' in terms of the language (slight overtures of Harry Enfield's Mr Chomley-Warner !), its the first book I've read on depression (and probably like you guys, I've read a fair few !) that had me constantly nodding as I went through it. Basically, her key advice in terms of anxiety\depression is:
i) face your anxiety
ii) accept it
iii) let it float away (i.e. rather than focusing on or mulling over)
iv) let time pass
OK, I know there is nothing earth shattering here, but the way she unpacks i)-iv) in the book really resonates with me. Which is why I started banging on about floating up the stairs.....:D !
Well, having reflected a bit over the weekend, I'm really pleased I've got myself back in work. Chat with my boss on friday went OK insofar as we spent the first 15 mins talking about her (conscious decision by me to tickle her tummy- always works a treat !) followed by quick chat which skated over why I was off etc, which was fine with me.
On a slightly less positive side, I have struggled all week with attendant anxieties that started as soon as I walked back in the office. Confidence levels feel pretty low, and I found it hard to concentrate, which meant I spent most of the week going through the 800+ emails in my intray ! So, I'm trying to let all those feelings of worthlessness (nobody thinks I'm any good at my job etc) 'float' away and keep saying to myself that in time, my anxiety will start to reduce and I'll be able to do more at work. And it seems to be working in that I don't feel I'm punishing myself as much as I have in the past. But, I did feel knackered by friday, so have spent a fair portion of the weekend having sneaky 'kips', in between doing my DIY jobs in the nursery......
....which brings me nicely back to ending on a positive note :yesyes: Anna has had another growth spurt this week, so bump has now transmogrified into a baby- pod !!! We think button is now around 3lbs\40 cm- only 10 weeks to go ! What's great now is that I'm getting as excited as Anna is- the anxieties around will I be a good dad\will I cope are still around, but they're not dominating my thinking.
Just reading this through has made me reflect that I've done pretty damn well this week, and I think you two should reflect similarly, as it seems to me that you've both dealt with 'blips' really well. Think I'll finish on that bombastic note !
Take care guys
Nick
Hi guys and gals
Firstly DIY-I agree with Nick on this one Yvonne-although my lounge was done "professionally" nevertheless it had very uneven/rough walls beforehand, not helped by having to scrape God knows how many years of "beautiful" anaglypta type wallpaper off the walls. But lining paper went on, painted over and it made a world of difference. One word of caution is that it is a pretty exacting task to get just right (not that I'm casting aspersions on your DIY skills. after all just cos I'm useless doesn't mean I should tar you with the same brush (pun totally intended:D).
Anyhoo-Nick-I'm going to look into that Clare Weekes book as I am currently suffering severe nervousness and anxiety so anything that can ease that would be great. Not sure if I tickled my (male) boss's tummy that would get me too far (I'm assuming you WERE speaking metaphorically, if not can I join your workplace NOW??!!:winks: ) but like most bosses she probably likes her ego "massaged" a bit-seriously am glad it went well as I know you were nervous about it. And I can definitely relate to the lack of confidence/concentration bit, but am reminding myself (as you should) that it is just enough at the moment that I am back in. Also having seen the state the place has got into since I left I realise, without being arrogant, that perhaps they still need me after all!! I am one of the older hands after all in an organisation which believes in paying (just left) schoolkids peanuts rather than looking after their experienced and loyal staff-and if you pay peanuts-you get me!!! OOPS bit of a rant there went off on a bit of a tangent.
On a brighter note I am pleased to hear of "Button's" progress, and that although you are quite rightly anxious about being a good dad (Hey, I still work myself up about THAT old chestnut and my two are 9 and 12!!) it isn't dominating proceedings. Cliche though it is family REALLY IS the only thing that matters amidst all the other shit we get mired into.
And you have done "pretty damn well"-as we all have I reckon-would be fallacy to deny there have been more than a few "blips" along the way but we are still hanging in there and fighting the good fight-which is all anyone can do.
Anyway away to check Top Gear is recording for my son (he's car daft!!) but keep in touch and keep these moments of doubt and panic in perspective-I'm saying that as much to myself as you guys!!
G
YvonneBelle
08-08-10, 23:07
But one top tip I've picked up is where you've got an uneven\glossed wall, its often easier to cover with lining paper and then paint over. Works a treat !Aha! Well, this is what I'm planning to do with the lounge... which after stripping several layers of really stubborn paper looked as if someone had actually gone crazy with a machine gun! I think I must have scraped for England (in fact, the UK) and yes indeed, heavy duty lining paper at the ready!
But you saying that about the paper has made me think about the kitchen. It's very small (galley style) and looks as though the previous tenant opened up a tin of dark blue paint and just threw it on the walls, not caring too much about light switches or even the ceiling! And the state of the wall looks as if the plasterer might have been drunk in charge of a trowel when he did it... so you have actually prompted me think about lining the kitchen as well as the lounge before painting. Same applies to the bathroom actually.
In the bedroom I didn't think the walls were quite as bad hence the idea of one papered wall and three painted walls. Except that the wall I'm planning to paper is half yukky green and half scraped. However, I think the paper I've chosen is good enough quality to cover the partial yukky green bit because my dad did a great job of sanding the walls today. In fact we both did a bit of sanding... him the green/white bit and me the rest in preparation for the final coat of paint and I'm sure we must have looked quite funny with our masks & goggles shuffling around inside a cloud of paint dust because the room is so small!
It's a nice(ish) flat with a good view for it's location in the city but on closer inspection, especially around the skirting boards and stuff, I'm feeling (and seeing) some of it's chequered history in random splodges, scrapes and peeling paint and the general grottiness that you get to see at floor level when you're trying to scrape up behind a radiator without dislocating your wrist! LOL
However, with my new security blanket (resurrected B&Q book) I'm feeling a bit more confident and actually looking forward to giving the bedroom it's final coat of paint using a brush rather than a roller... very carefully, whilst listening to the radio no doubt. This after a bit more cleaning of walls - bloody dust gets everywhere!!
Anyway, I can't quite believe that I'm turning into a DIY person, one of those people that I used to regularly mock as they lurked around B&Q on a Sunday morning with hair stuck up, sleepy eyed and looking like they needed a good bath! :D (This is my new street style btw).
I blagged 'floating' from Clare Weekes book on self help for nerves.:roflmao:heheheeeeeeee!
My mum has that book, being something of a colly-wobbler herself, and swears by it. Funnily enough she used to say I wouldn't get much from it and wouldn't relate to it (being in her eyes the sort of person that bravely steps out into the world being held back by nothing and nobody... which is generally true). Except that lately I have suffered from anxiety but only related to depression. It's true that I could never really understand her sweating palms and heart beating out of her chest just at the thought of getting on a bus on her own and used to try and 'logic' her out of it, but of course that didn't work.
I have had one single panic attack in my whole life and never want another! (Thought I was having a heart attack). Other than that, my nerves are usually made of steel which is why I'm so good at getting jobs but then not so good when I end up hating them!
I like these...
i) face your anxiety
ii) accept it
iii) let it float away (i.e. rather than focusing on or mulling over)
iv) let time pass
Except that in my case I could probably replace the word "anxiety" with "fear" and it works just as well.
Confidence levels feel pretty low, and I found it hard to concentrateOh how I can relate to that! Good job nobody can read your thoughts sometimes at work as they speed ahead in panic mode. The reality is that most people are probably wondering what to have for lunch or thinking about what was on the telly last night rather than wondering what number email you are on. They just see you there and in their minds it probably goes no further than Nick is back. That's not to say they don't care but my old trick is imagining what people are thinking about me all the time... which is probably not what they are thinking at all. One good tip I picked up from Paul McKenna is to assume that people are thinking good things about you, because they probably are more than you think anyway - especially if you try to remain positive. Most people respond to that even if you've dropped a clanger. After all, who hasn't??
Anna has had another growth spurt this week, so bump has now transmogrified into a baby- pod !!! We think button is now around 3lbs\40 cm- only 10 weeks to go !And it will fly by I'm sure.... wheeee!! Make the most of each day - it's such a lovely thing to be looking forward to a new life beginning. :)
Thanks Nick for remarking on progress all round and great that being back at work is going well. And it won't be too long until paternity leave and life never being quite the same again (in a good way!)
:yesyes:
YvonneBelle
08-08-10, 23:18
Another Columbo moment - waves hello to Alice and anyone else peeking in.... nice to see you! :byebye:
I shall be back... (tomorrow)
Gordon - hang in there and hope you're having a good weekend!
And re: the title of your thread - yes, I think you can dare to hope! I think we all can... :)
YvonneBelle
09-08-10, 10:30
One word of caution is that it is a pretty exacting task to get just right (not that I'm casting aspersions on your DIY skills.LOL you used the word 'skill' and 'DIY' in the same sentence! :D Well, I'm an 'exacting Virgo' so I will be directing whilst my dad is papering. (Poor dad!!!) I'm sure it will end up being a team effort. My dad has some experience of paper hanging but not under my watchful eye... and I can spot anything out of line! Trouble is - the walls might not be exactly square, so it could be lot of fun when the time comes! I am now pretty certain I'm going to paper the kitchen and bathroom and paint over. Best idea for covering all the dark blue and there's not much wall to cover so a couple of rolls should do it. Bathroom could be a nightmare tho... so many angles and things in the way. I might actually save that one for a professional!
I am currently suffering severe nervousness and anxiety so anything that can ease that would be great.I was once almost climbing out of myself in panic during a really stressful situation abroad. My whole world was collapsing and I needed to get back to the UK as soon as possible and with very little money. I have never felt so stressed... so much so that I popped into a chemist and looked at the Bach flower remedies. I think I chose White Chestnut which alleviates 'racing brain' and calms you down. You add a few drops to a glass of water and sip slowly. I must say, it did help. I didn't have much faith in it working but I was desperate at the time. It definately took the edge off. I gave some to my sister on her wedding day - a few drops directly on her tongue. It seemed to calm her nerves quite a lot and she was pretty composed (as much as you can be) when the time came.
Also having seen the state the place has got into since I left I realise, without being arrogant, that perhaps they still need me after all!!Of course they do!! It's only you that thinks they don't. :winks:
in an organisation which believes in paying (just left) schoolkids peanuts rather than looking after their experienced and loyal staffmost big companies are penny-pinching so as not to spoil their juicy profits.... grrrrr, which is why I'm thinking of either working for myself in some capacity or working for a non-profit humanitarian role. I like the idea of having two strings to the bow - therapist and writer. How does that sound??? I'm thinking massage therapist or something of that nature. Complementary therapies, that sort of thing. Combined with writing in some shape or form. My sis reckons I'd make a good writer of children's stories a.k.a. Enid Blyton! lol
It's a lovely day here in sunny Brum!
Hope everyone has a nice start to their week!
I'm at work today (at home) still sorting through a mountain of paperwork.
Yvonne :)
Hi all
Just a brief update as I am just in from kicking a football about again!
Nick-I have ordered that Clare Weekes book on the basis of nothing ventured nothing gained-yes I have read it is a bit old fashioned but it is the essential message that will be of interest to me. And Yvonne-there is a herbal/vitamin specialist shop in the town so might pop down there and see what they have for anxiety-again where's the harm?
Glad to see you aren't giving up on the DIY Yvonne-and I'm sure you are an excellent "gaffer"!! And my house too is hiding a multitude of sins behind walls, skirting boards etc... Though I have taken to calling it characterful:) Sounds so much better I reckon.
To be blunt I don't know how much longer I'll survive in the workplace-not so much cos of anxiety (though it is there) but because it is so bloody disorganised. I am not perfect by any means but it frightens me how things have been allowed to go downhill-I keep telling myself just to ignore it and keep the heid down but it's hard. I see my counsellor on Wednesday so should get a chance to ask her if there are any volunteering opportunities available in the Mental Health Centre-I think I need a diversion!! And writing appeals too-as I have never really grown up then maybe children's stories is the way to go for me too!
Nick-hope you are surviving work and that Anna and Button doing fine.
Meant to write more but tbh pretty damned knackered now (it's only Monday as well!!) so think I'll watch a bit of telly then bed.
Awra best as always.
G
Morning mon amis !
Just a quickie to say a really, really enjoyed your last few postings- perfect combination of humour, advice, irreverence and empathy. So thank you both !
And one thing really strikes me:
I like the idea of having two strings to the bow - therapist and writer. How does that sound??? I'm thinking massage therapist or something of that nature. Complementary therapies, that sort of thing. Combined with writing in some shape or form. My sis reckons I'd make a good writer of children's stories a.k.a. Enid Blyton! lol
I started reading this tread from the beginning last night, and what really struck me is how you are BOTH natural writers. You both write fluently and have that ability to make the words jump from the page, so that the reader is gripped. Seriously, its a gift, and I do think you're both right to think how you could use it more- maybe start with short stories....???
Righteo, off to shower and prepare for a half day of civil service excitement- LOL ! Have a good day both of you.
Nick
YvonneBelle
11-08-10, 12:22
And Yvonne-there is a herbal/vitamin specialist shop in the town so might pop down there and see what they have for anxiety-again where's the harm?None whatsoever, except don't be tempted to buy the shop! These things can work out expensive if you get carried away. However, the Bach flower remedies are pretty good I reckon.
Glad to see you aren't giving up on the DIY Yvonne-and I'm sure you are an excellent "gaffer"!! And my house too is hiding a multitude of sins behind walls, skirting boards etc... Though I have taken to calling it characterful:) Sounds so much better I reckon.LOL, well this is a long way from perfection but I think I can make improvements. I'm hopefully going to get a skirting board replaced and once the lining paper is up in the lounge it should look loads better. I'm tempted to try hanging some of it myself following my B&Q book because my dad seems to have a slap-dash attitude to some things - just gerrit on!! I'd rather spend more time doing it 'properly'... it's just the way I am. :)
And now that I've spotted some Wickes textured paint I might just be tempted to try and create the Italian kitchen look in the galley kitchen... sort of pebble dashed and rustic looking (to cover the unsightly walls!!!)
As the kitchen has no window (gahhhh) I'm thinking of putting a picture on the back wall of a window view - reckon that'll work??? I'm thinking of looking out upon Tuscan mountains whilst waiting for the kettle to boil... (oh how she dreams!) :D
To be blunt I don't know how much longer I'll survive in the workplace-not so much cos of anxiety (though it is there) but because it is so bloody disorganised.Sounds to me like you feel a lack of control... something I can totally relate to.
I keep telling myself just to ignore it and keep the heid down but it's hardYes it is. :huh:
I think I need a diversion!!Ahhh, be careful of that! I'm the master of the 'diversion tactic' and I can tell you it really doesn't work! Better to face things 'heid on' if you can, although it's easier said than done I know.
I take it that being back at work isn't all you hoped it would be and in fact seems to be re-inforcing your desire to leave? It can become all consuming... I once sat at my desk trying to resist (for all my worth) the desire to switch off my PC and 'do one'. It was all I could do some days to last the day. However, getting it off your chest and not suppressing it is my only advice else it will only fester. It's such a hard position to be in with kids/mortgage but for the sake of your sanity you might need to get your lateral thinking head on.
I am on my arse on benefits at the moment and whilst I don't have the same responsibilities as you I can tell you I still feel optimistic about what the future might hold. Try not to let fear of lack hold you back, because it's amazing how people rally when you need them to (especially family).
I reckon some breathing space might help but it's not always possible to get it. My measure of how much work is bothering me is how much of my precious weekend I waste worrying about it. If I love Fridays and hate Sunday evenings then that's usually a very bad sign. Why let work spoil your whole life, including weekends?
Sorry if I sound like I'm on a soap-box but it's because I've been there and felt the same and I know how horrible it is. :mad:
Anyway, to end on a lighter note... I'm really enjoying this thread and agree with Nick about your ability to convey feeling through words. That's what attracted me to this thread in the first place; something about your first post that struck a chord. It IS a skill to be able to do that, so I would seriously consider your desire to be a journalist of sorts. I am considering something similar, although not journalism per se. I will explain more in response to Nick and to thank him for his kind words of encouragement...
Keep yer chin up Gordon!!! :)
Yvonne
YvonneBelle
11-08-10, 12:31
Just a quickie to say a really, really enjoyed your last few postings- perfect combination of humour, advice, irreverence and empathy. So thank you both !Wow - thanks Nick! :)
I started reading this tread from the beginning last night, and what really struck me is how you are BOTH natural writers. You both write fluently and have that ability to make the words jump from the page, so that the reader is gripped. Seriously, its a gift, and I do think you're both right to think how you could use it more- maybe start with short stories....???Nick, what you said here really gave me a lift and a boost, so thank you for that! Yes, I've been thinking about this a lot lately. When I had my overseas disaster I thought about writing down the whole story, mainly as therapy for myself, but also as a warning to others. And I've been investigating courses via the OU and there is one called Creative Writing which I think would be perfect for me and starts in October. All I'd need is the funding... but maybe I'll get that if I'm still out of work at that point. October isn't actually too far away now...
Righteo, off to shower and prepare for a half day of civil service excitement- LOL ! Have a good day both of you.Keep up the good work Nick - and remember that each day that passes is a day closer to having a lovely new baby in your arms. How magical is that?? :winks:
Hi Yvonne Hi Nick
Thanks for your recent posts-they have given me a much needed boost I have to say.
I really appreciate your kind comments regarding the writing-it is something I get pleasure from and I would like to utilise it more-like yourself Yvonne possibly not in a journalist sense but in some other capacity. And I might get googling "creative writing" myself after I finish this!
You are right about the herbal/supplement shops Yvonne. I think if I started to go down that path to any extent i would need a second mortgage:) But it's still a possibility to explore.
Anxiety was pretty bad this morning-you are right (again!!) Yvonne re the workplace-whilst being back has eased the worries I had regarding yet another continuing absence, it has replaced it with that "trapped" feeling I have had for too long now-and yes, the temptation to just "do one" is very powerful at times!! I mentioned in a previous post that I felt I was in the "last chance saloon" work wise-at that time the context in which that was meant was that I felt the bank would lose patience, either through me being off again or not being able to carry out my job effectively due to the way I am feeling. But I realise now it's a 2 way street and that the final decision may just as easily come from me, or worst case scenario be forced upon me because I can't handle it any more. Part of me dreads that but like you allude to Yvonne I can't help feeling that the sense of a new chapter in my life beginning might lessen that slightly.And it might get me off my (at present non-benefitted) arse and doing something! But at the moment I plough on, and I do enjoy the company of my colleagues-definitely preferable to sitting in the house fretting I guess.
I do feel a lack of control though-a feeling of "being controlled" rather than dictating events myself and it does bug me. And the "diversion" bit was really more about finding something to do outwith the workplace which might give me some fulfillment, but I fully take on board your point that dealing with the core issue is the most important thing for me.
Was at the counsellor today-she made an interesting point-we talked about my drinking days (please don't misconstrue this-I wasn't a candidate for the "AA" but I did like a good drink in my time), and how I fairly swiftly went on to the Anti-Depressant path after that. I don't regret my drinking days in the main (some good memories, some not so good) but I do recognise that like many people I used it as a form of escape from my problems, and that I have lived one way or another with some form of chemical "crutch" for many years. So it is no wonder, as my counsellor pointed out, that it is going to be bloody hard facing up to my new reality without that crutch, but I still believe (for me) it is worth persevering with. Purely a personal view, and no reflection on you guys who I know are on AD's at present-and if I implode I'll be back at the docs tout suite! She also mentioned the way I am feeling as being akin to being like a lost child, bereft of my parents and without the purpose that my marriage/fatherhood role gave me in the past. Another way of putting it might be "Grow up" but I can see where she is coming from.
Anyhoo on a lighter note I am enjoying your decorating updates Yvonne, and inspired by you I am thinking of a picture of Girls Aloud in bikinis for my kitchen window:D:blush: Would certainly beat looking at the pissing rain-Scotland has reverted to type after an unusually hot weekend.
Nick-hope the civil service isn't proving TOO exciting for you! And as Yvonne has said, if it is getting you down think of that wee bairn (another guid Scots word) that you'll soon be holding in these (over-stressed) arms!!
Tomorrow is another day-all the best folks
G
Crumbs, its Thursday already !
Hope you both don't mind, but I'm going to invoke the right to mind dump, as I'm struggling a bit. I found monday\tuesday at work really hard- I get frustrated with the fact that my brain is only working at a fraction of its usual capacity, and I start to panic that I'm not getting any better. Just looking at my computer screen and trying to read emails feels like an heroic effort, and I can hear that little voice whispering in my ear that I'm not taking things in, I'm not proving my worth etc. So, I sit there, and keep re-reading in the hope that things will start to sink in....but the harder I try, the more frustrated I get.
Which brings me to the magnificient Dr Weekes- she quite rightly says that our minds, tired from fear\anxiety etc, are in a temporary state of 'disintegration' which means we have to accept and work at the pace that they are capable of. And its a temporary state, which will pass. So every night, I re-read those passages of the book just to reassure myself that I will be able to think and act at a 'normal' pace again, even though I've been here many times before and know that things will get better.....
I arranged with my boss that I'd work wednesday mornings at home, which does help. And I think I'm going to email in this morning and say that I'm going to work at home today. I know they'll will be fine about it. But I feel awkward, and I think it goes back to wanting to please my bosses (even with my recovery) by sticking rigidly to the agreed plan.
Just writing this down here really helps- I actually feel a bit lighter just by letting it out. I think there is something quite important in all of this in me recognising that my recovery is for me, and me alone, and I have to do whats right for me in terms of getting better, irrespective of work. And I guess this means I need to be a courageous at times and recognise, like today, that 'pushing' myself to go into work isn't in my best interest....
And I think the 'pushing' aspect is really important- I do feel that I'm in danger of starting to push myself to go to work, do more hours each week, rather than accepting where I am, letting those negative thoughts float away, and be kind to myself. And using Suz's 'befriending' myself analogy really helps, as that tells me I need to do whats right for me now, not what's right for others......
Another reason I'm struggling is that we went to the hospital yesterday for a tour of the maternity ward. And I could hear that little voice going 'oh my god, only 10 weeks to go until button arrives, and look at the state of you- you can't concentrate, do basic things etc' Never a good sign when that voice starts talking in paragraphs (i.e. not just single sentences !) so whilst I'm really glad we went, I think I need to listen to the warning signs that my 'buckets are full' (lovely phrase my counsellor uses) and just ease back a bit.....
I'm not going to apologise for going on (!) given whats being said before, but I do want you both to know that you're in my thoughts and I'm thinking positive things for you both. Right, time to share and have that 2nd cup of tea.....
Nick
YvonneBelle
12-08-10, 10:21
But at the moment I plough on, and I do enjoy the company of my colleagues-definitely preferable to sitting in the house fretting I guess.Hiya Gordon, I got two messages from this. That you are good with people and sociable (a transferable skill) and sitting in the house fretting isn't the only other option! :winks:
And the "diversion" bit was really more about finding something to do outwith the workplace which might give me some fulfillmentAhh, I see. More like the work-life balance thing? I never did get that one right! lol
I used it as a form of escape from my problems, and that I have lived one way or another with some form of chemical "crutch" for many years.Your honesty is refreshing! Not many folks would actually admit to that but plenty can probably relate to it in some way.
So it is no wonder, as my counsellor pointed out, that it is going to be bloody hard facing up to my new reality without that crutch, but I still believe (for me) it is worth persevering with.Absolutely! If you can then I agree you should try. My decision to take ADs felt like a bit of a last resort as I just couldn't seem to pick myself up. I was reassured by my doc that the meds would give me a leg up into a position where I could start to have the energy to help myself which did work and I'm now glad I took that decision but I want to run the course, come off (eventually) and then take another look at my life and how far I've come along. With any luck, I won't need to return to them - ever.
She also mentioned the way I am feeling as being akin to being like a lost child, bereft of my parents and without the purpose that my marriage/fatherhood role gave me in the past. Another way of putting it might be "Grow up" but I can see where she is coming from.Ahh, no - don't say "grow up" that's way too harsh!! Read the sentence again without the last bit... it's powerful stuff and a great insight there.
Great that you are enjoying my decorating antics! Anyone could be forgiven for thinking that anyone else might have completed the Forth Bridge by now but progress is slow because I'm only spending a few hours there at a time and as we all know, I'm no expert, but could possibly win prizes for effort! :D
Gordon, I'm sure if you've read this you've also read Nick's post. (Nick... you are definately not alone with what you said - many of us can totally relate! You're doing the right thing.)
I'll be back to comment more later. Just got to go out and get some more stuff done...
In the meantime - have a good day everyone!
Yvonne
Evening all (was that Dixon of Dock Green? And am I showing my age?
Anyway two interesting posts from you-I thought I'd respond one at a time.
Firstly Nick-I completely empathise with everything you say about the return to the workplace-it's pretty much a carbon copy of where I'm at too. I promised myself when I went back that it would be enough for me to just get back in, and that I wouldn't push myself too hard, but I guess old habits die hard and like yourself I find myself increasingly frustrated at my lack of concentration/ability to "take things in". I have only just started the Dr Weekes tome, so too early for me to pass judgement, but I think that accepting our limitations IN OUR PRESENT STATE is very much the key, and it isn't easy to do-after all it is in our nature to be hard on ourselves at the best of times. One conclusion about myself that I have come to, and probably in common with a lot of people especially sufferers of anxiety/depression, is a self-destructive element within myself, by which I mean I do something I think is for the best, and then gradually work my way round to over-analysing it and deciding it's the most stupid/pathetic/nonsensical thing I have ever done. The house is a case in point-I wasn't happy in the flat, bought the house as a nicer place for me and the kids (and THEY love it) but now berate myself for having lumbered myself with this bricks and mortar monstrosity which is eating up the few funds I have left. But when I had the flat I had no savings whatsoever so what has really happened that's any worse? Just never happy I guess. And that is me all over-over-analysing/thinking and the only conclusion I am ever going to reach is a negative one-but I continue to TRY to change that.
But I digress. The "pushing" bit rings true for me too-I can already see myself getting back into that cycle even though I promised myself that I would learn the lessons of recent months and start to (shock, horror!!) put myself first before anything else. But again I'm aware of it and will keep trying, as indeed I know you will. And having been on a "phased return" myself, I know the pressure it puts on you to adhere to it rigidly, with any deviation seemingly a sign that we are going back into the mire. But you are doing the right thing in working from home as a "compromise" solution, and that in itself is a sign that you are being kinder to yourself than before.
I am very anxious in the mornings these days, and was on my way to one of our other offices with a female colleague today, and I got upset and kinda poured my heart out a bit. She was really sympathetic, and listened to my woes, and at the end of it simply said "You know you're being way too hard on yourself". And I felt like saying "No shit, Sherlock!" but what I actually said is "I know". And I DO know, which is the bloody frustrating thing, cos I keep bloody doing it to masel!!:)
And when the voices start talking in full length books then come back to me!! Only jesting LOL:D But I know what you mean-and yes I suspect both our respective buckets are full-and that we do need to ease off the throttle a bit.
Finally thanks for the comments at the end-I have never met you or Yvonne (or indeed the other contributors on here) but I feel a shared pain but also (and more importantly) a real determination from all of us to work it out to our advantage at some point. And I too find getting all this out helps me enormously.
PHEW!! Yvonne-you still there?!!
Your post is "bang on" as always. Work/ life balance? Well life gave up that particular race a long time ago but everything I am doing/contemplating at the moment is an attempt to choose life (Trainspotting analogy). Ain't easy when work is such a big aspect of my life, and when Saturday with my kids leaves me with just a Sunday to devote to my own needs/wants, but it does need to be addressed. So completely empathasise with you-I've never quite got that one right either!!
And re the "chemical crutch" part I don't have many regrets about the drinking days (Hey, it was bloody good fun a LOT of the time) but yes there were undoubtedly other times when it was self-medication. But again hey, me and half the country probably. And to be fair at least I had the good sense to knock it on the head once I realised it was changing me from what people sometimes called a "good drunk" to a maudlin, self-pitying shadow of myself.
Crikey, bit heavy there, so I'll move on to thank you for your kind comment re my "grow up" diatribe. It IS time to give myself credit, not easy carrying on without parental help and on my own a lot (no violins please, just doing a spot of online geeing myself up a bit:)) and it does work in my favour too sometimes-there is a defiance within me that I will carry on regardless. And yes, as usual, a lot of folk have it worse. I HAVE got two fantastic kids after all.
Was at doc's today-he actually took the fact that I am now off meds quite well, and appreciates that it is my decision to make. I think he also knows me well enough to understand that if I go downhill I will go back to see him pronto. He reckons the answer to my problems is a prescription for "one woman, to be taken twice daily (oooh err, shades of Frankie Howard there), preferably sympathetic and a good listener-with a tendency to appreciate self-pitying but hopefully reasonably humorous Scotsmen. But I think I need to sort my own baggage out first before I attempt to get back into that game.
Still, thought a bit of levity was in order as this has been a pretty heavy post. And Yvonne, slow and steady WILL win the race DIY wise.
I wish you both well too and will keep in touch.
Off for a short walk round the Trossachs
G
Meant to add
Haven't had one of my musical updates for a while. Am currently blasting out an old favourite of mine from 1980-"Love and Loneliness" by The Motors, great wee song with lyrics which (sadly) seem to get more relevant to me as I get older. But strangely therapeutic too. So in the (extremely unlikely) event that any ex-members of The Motors ever read this drivel thank you very much for a song which has been a good companion to me over the years. Oh and "Airport" was bloody good too...:)
Toodle Pip
G
Morning amigos
Before I forget, thank you both for your responses to my posting yesterday, especially Gordon. It really, really, really helps just to read that someone else understands exactly how I'm feeling- takes a bit of the anxiety away and helps me to stop going off on one.....
I'll post more fully at the w'end- am about to get the train to work. I think I'm at a pretty important point in getting myself back on my pegs in that (shock, horror !) anxiety has raised its ugly head again, and I've got two options: float or flee ! And I've decided I choose floating, even though it feels 'effin hard at the moment ! So, I'm going to go into work today with no goals- if I read some emails, thats great. If I draft a letter, even better. But if I just sit there and talk to colleagues, or surf sites, then thats fine too. Gordon's right - I've wanted to stick rigidly to my phased recovery and progress in a linear way, and that ain't the way that anxiety works !
As for my comments at the end of my last post, Gordon's right (again - clearly on a roll !)- I think we all recognise in each other a determination to move forward and find better, happier places, where we can be more ourselves. And I also think that we've connected as we're all open and receptive to new thoughts\ways of thinking etc. I certainly value your thoughts and reflections, especially at the moment.
Have to say, I do feel mentally 'tired' at the moment- just sitting here on sofa with foggy head, and every physical movement does feel like a bit effort. So, I'm going to put me coat on now and pootle down to train station and just go with the flow of the day.....
Yvonne- I'm expecting a full update on operation makeover- how's that galley kitchen looking ??
Have a good day both of you- speak later.
Nick
Morning both
Just to say I have the kids overnight tonight and into tomorrow so could be Sunday before I get back to this but look forward to your updates in betweentimes.
And hang in there Nick-I know it's tough-mornings especially (for me anyway)-and mental tiredness I can relate to as well.
Keep strong
Gordon
YvonneBelle
14-08-10, 23:27
...and I can hear that little voice whispering in my ear that I'm not taking things in, I'm not proving my worth etc. So, I sit there, and keep re-reading in the hope that things will start to sink in....but the harder I try, the more frustrated I get.Yes Nick, I have been there too! I can totally relate to many of the things you've said here. I wanted to come back to this post for that reason!
In my case (most recently) I was in a new job and I began to panic that they had somehow recruited the wrong person (i.e. me). But in reality (and on reflection) I was being expected to achieve the impossible. A certain naivety on the side of management combined with the crunch point of me reaching the end of the road of this particular career path.
But I just wanted to say Nick that your 'worth' isn't anything to do with what you are paid in order to do a particular job.
Someone once pointed out to me (quite rightly) that we shouldn't attach our own personal worth to our current salary or in any way try to relate the two. Our worth as a human being is priceless - but I do understand (if you are anything like me) that there is that part of you that feels that you are not giving your employer 'value for money' if your performance, usually by your own standards, is somehow below par for whatever reason. But who is measuring? That is not something anyone can easily measure. How about all the times you have helped someone without expecting anything back? All the times you have overheard a conversation at work and have chipped in with a piece of info that has saved somebody else a lot of time and research? All the knowledge you have in your head... hard to put a real price on those things. I've learned that if you value yourself highly and know what you are capable of, then others tend to see your 'worth' more readily.
I can remember panicking once several years ago thinking that my skills were not worth the salary I was earning at the time and that my managers would soon realise this and then get rid of me. In reality I got a £3K payrise at the end of my first six months in recognition of my enthusiasm and effort! I had somehow convinced myself that I was being a fraud by taking the job and earning that salary (which, incidentally, was only just above average for what I was doing). It was my low self esteem talking. In sharp contrast, my idiot boss (who seemed to revel in developing software that was of no use to anyone) had no such qualms about taking his huge salary each month! :D
Just thought I'd add this because your post sort of rang bells in terms of how I have felt on occasion - but I have not been on a phased return from illness. This has just been during my working life, which is littered with phases where I didn't feel worth it or competent or good enough when all the time I was achieving stuff where others might have failed!
However, once I did start to feel ill at work (more recently) I really couldn't concentrate and I just couldn't think. I couldn't even speak properly! And yet the work I was doing was intensely difficult and required high levels of concentration. In short, it nearly drove me insane... but having stepped away from it completely now I feel nothing but relief. And the writing is on the wall. I'm never going back to that type of work again!
I know they'll will be fine about it. But I feel awkward, and I think it goes back to wanting to please my bosses (even with my recovery) by sticking rigidly to the agreed plan.I think a plan is just that - a plan - something in place which is better than nothing. It's not legally binding and all plans are subject to change! Think of all the projects that go way over budget and require constant updates.
Another snippet I picked up from Paul McKenna is that an aeroplane is never quite on course for the whole of it's journey. It's flight path requires constant adjustments in order to reach it's destination. Think of it like that. All your employers really want is to be kept informed. I doubt they really expect you to stick rigidly to a plan but they feel better having a plan (something on paper) simply to refer to and fine-tune each time you have a catch up. And taking responsibility for some of that yourself is great, because it saves them the job! As long as you get agreement every step of the way (even if it's a step back) then you should be fine.
Just writing this down here really helps- I actually feel a bit lighter just by letting it out.I'm a great believer in writing things down. Things become much clearer when I do. And I favour a pencil over a pen for some reason! I sometimes jot down thoughts in a pad. I let the thoughts flow until I naturally come to a stop. I don't always read it back straight away but sometimes leave it until later. Looking back over these from time to time helps me to realise just how far I have come along and I sometimes even empathise with how I was feeling then.
I think when button arrives he or she will actually be therapeutic! Having spent time with my friend and her new baby I've realised that babies open you up to a whole new world of strangers. And the baby has a lightness and innocence that is very hard to ignore. They seem to automatically attract positivity. People smile and start chatting to you and your own worries seem to melt. When my friend first brought her baby over to see me I had only taken a few day's worth of ADs and was still feeling pretty rough. But holding the baby and watching his expression as he tried to grab my necklace made me laugh for the first time in ages. I'm sure you will be swept along for the first couple of weeks but it'll all be fine. And I'm sure you will cope and be great just like any new dad. :)
Back tomorrow eve as it's late now and I've got a busy day tomorrow!
Hope your weekend with the kids is going well Gordon!!
Yvonne
YvonneBelle
15-08-10, 11:06
I have never met you or Yvonne (or indeed the other contributors on here) but I feel a shared pain but also (and more importantly) a real determination from all of us to work it out to our advantage at some point. And I too find getting all this out helps me enormously.Yay!! :emot-cheering:
He reckons the answer to my problems is a prescription for "one woman, to be taken twice daily (oooh err, shades of Frankie Howard there)Haha, if only doctors could prescribe love and gym memberships! :D
And Yvonne, slow and steady WILL win the race DIY wise.You're not wrong there Gordon... crikey, it's taking ages!! But I'd rather progress slowly than rush it.
And I'm learning things all the time. Like I've now realised that the kitchen is going to take a LOT of preparation before I can start slapping the textured paint on. It's heavily daubed in some type of gloss based dark blue paint (nightmare) and the walls need cleaning, scrubbing, sanding and priming before I can even get started!
In the meantime, I've nearly done painting in the bedroom (apart from the horrible pipes and the wall still needs to be wallpapered) and the lounge ceiling is now painted (and the dado rail) as at yesterday. One minor distraction has been a dent in my front door which I'm convinced is fresh but my mum isn't so sure and thought it was there before. Last Friday I put my key in the door and this small dent caught my eye, almost as if someone had thumped the door when passing. I'm now beginning to doubt myself but I have a keen eye and tend to notice things like that. How I missed it before I'll never know if it's always been there. :shrug:
I'm starting to worry a little bit about how long it's taking me to progess and where I'm going to put a lot of my stuff when I move because the new flat is much smaller than the one I'm currently living in. And there's so much paperwork involved at the moment what with benefit claims and keeping on top of all the rest of it. At least now I have a filing system (of sorts) and can lay my hands on things like birth certificate and other proofs needed pretty quickly.
I was meant to be going to the gym this morning but feel a bit Sunday morning-ish and so have decided to go later this evening. I seem to be an afternoon person when it comes to exercise and I don't think I've ever really been a morning person! I tend to prefer to spend the first few hours catching up with emails etc. and then working at the new place during the day and at the gym in the evenings (with the only down side being that it's a case of me and everyone else at the gym later in the day). But hey...
And I also have new shorter hair with highlights strategically placed to hide the increasing number of greys... (oh joy!!) with the added bonus that any paint splashes now look much less obvious! :D
Right O - am off to get ready for a short trip to Homebase followed by lunch with mum followed by more painting at the flat followed by an evening session at the gym followed by zzzzzzzzzz
Hope everyone is having a good weekend! (Don't they come round quickly???)
Yvonne
I'm not even going to start with the usual greetings as I've just read both of your last postings and I have to say 'thank you' both, simple as that. If the advice we share with each other are gifts, then I think my birthday and christmas has just come all in one go- so thank you both (again) :D!
Last week was hard. Even though I'd mentally prepared myself for some 'wobbles' as I dipped my toes into the real world of work, it still came as a big shock when I found I couldn't concentrate as I wanted to, which then led to all those feelings of frustration, anxiety etc that we've all experienced. As Gordon rightly observed, I did want to stick rigidly to the agreed plan for my phased return, as even now, I still want to please work. So the thing I've reflected on since friday is not to be frustrated with myself for wanting to please, as it was bound to appear at some point. And moreover, not to get angry with myself that I can't think or do things at normal operating speed at the moment. So, I'm floating above these fears and letting them go, whilst also thinking more about the positive things that I do bring even by just sitting in the office- which is why Yvonne's thoughts on the 'knowledge in my head' are absolutely on the money.
Upshot is that I'm feeling fairly philosophical today- pleased that I did go into work on friday despite feeling the way I did, and moreover, I didn't push through when I was there. I simply allowed myself to be, and did what I felt able to do. Only downside is that coming to terms with 'bumps' like this is mentally tiring, and I have started to panic that I could slip back into depression, and I sooooooo don't want to go back there. But equally, I don't feel lost or despairing at the moment- just think that I'm on a journey (which may or may not involve steps !) which is only going in one direction, although I fully accept the Paul McKenna flightplan deviations !
Have kept myself pretty busy since Friday, although am very conscious of not overdoing it as a way of hiding from how I'm feeling at the moment. Highlight of yesterday was constructing a kitchen cupboard from bits of carcass that we had left over from when kitchen was done 8 years ago. Anna needs more space for baby stuff, and while she's been keen on buying a new cupboard, I'd managed to convince her to let me have a go at donning the DIY tool belt again.....! Having spent most of afternoon in the garage, I was v.pleased with myself that cupboard passed the Anna test, so I'll put it up this week :yesyes:
Thinking of Anna and button, I'm sure you're right Yvonne, little 'un will be therapeutic although I'm trying to not to rely upon his (or her, although I'm still sure its a boy !) arrival as being this amazing carthatic experience that gives me a new zen-like view of the world. This is more a note to self, as I know a part of me desperately wants to believe this is whats going to happen, and whilst I've got no doubts that button will help me down my road, I still need to do the leg-work !
I'm very aware that I'm making lots of withdrawals from the Yvonne\Gordon bank of support at the moment (thought you'd like this analogy Gordon !), so I just want you to know that I will start making deposits again shortly...but one thing did strike me recently that Gordon said:
and it isn't easy to do-after all it is in our nature to be hard on ourselves at the best of times. One conclusion about myself that I have come to, and probably in common with a lot of people especially sufferers of anxiety/depression, is a self-destructive element within myself, by which I mean I do something I think is for the best, and then gradually work my way round to over-analysing it and deciding it's the most stupid/pathetic/nonsensical thing I have ever done
Yup, you are so right Gordon, although I would question whether it is truly our nature to be hard on ourselves, or whether its more something we've learned to do over the years....Thing is, based upon all that you've written Gordon, I can't believe that being hard on yourself is an innate part of the positive, reflective, humorous (occasionally witty !) Gordon that I'm getting to know. Rather, I think its a way of behaving that you've learned over the years (as we all have) which you can let go off. I know I'm been pedantic here (again !) but I do think its an important distinction....
On self-destruction, I could devote a whole thread to this ! My sense is that everyone has a self- destructive element\capability, its just that we're more consciously aware of it because of our 'overthinking'. Which is why we tend to give ourselves a hard time about it, whilst others go blithely on, behaving occasionally inappropriately, without then reflecting upon their actions. Which leads me to conclude that we're no different from the rest of the world except for our willingness to be more honest about what we do, including taking responsibility for it. Gordon- again, I hope this doesn't come over as me being overbearing- just trying to reassure you that maybe we're not so different to others.....
Right, am going to pootle in garden and then maybe go out on bike !
Gordon -hope you had a good day with the kids, and that you're not feelig too :( today
Yvonne- am assuming you've had a busy DIY day today, so expect full update in next posting !
Take care guys
Nick
Hi both
Well got the day to myself so finally catching up on your recent "deposits" into/"withdrawals" from the Bank of Gordon! Yes Nick I do like the analogy!
Before I comment on your respective inputs things kinda came to a head for me yesterday-I got upset (again) with the kids (not AT them, it is simply some pressures at work that are really getting me down at the moment) and I realised that I simply do not want to live my life in the way I have been any more-the Bank is not going to improve for me (not that I ever thought it would!) and it is affecting my health AND my relationship with my children, which, as you'll have gathered from my previous postings, is the most important thing in my life to me. Don't get me wrong, OVERALL I had a really good day with them (though could have done without eldest son swinging me wildly on a hammock in the local play park-thought I was going to bring up my tea!) (Sorry, probably too much info there). But I am not prepared to carry on like this.
So I have today written out my case for early retirement from the Bank with pension (of some kind)-I plan first of all to run it past my Union Rep then possibly on to the Bank depending on his feedback. The negative side of my nature says it's already a lost cause but I'll never know unless I try. And I have given almost 30 years to them and have a fairly extensive medical history to back me up. I also just feel it is in NO-ONE'S interest (mine or the Banks') for me to wear myself into the ground and end up being unable to do ANYTHING except watch daytime TV (aarghh) and eat junk food (which I do enough of already tbh:))
Anyway we'll see what transpires.
Yvonne you posted first and I was always taught "Ladies First" anyway so regarding your latest post-
I know you are probably frustrated at what seems to be the slow progress you are making re the DIY, also the worries you have over the flat's compact size compared to your last one. I also understand that the Benefits system probably brings with it a few traumas of it's own.:) Nevertheless (and I'm being 100% genuine here) I greatly admire you because you have got to that stage I want (need) to get to that you have taken the first steps in realising your life was not going the way you wanted it to and ACTUALLY DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Our respective salaries don't matter in the grand scheme of things (though I can assure you mine is far from great!) but I get the impression that you were in a fairly well paid job before so I appreciate how much you have walked away from. But your overall health and happiness comes first and you have recognised that. And yes I do have kids and a mortgage to consider but that doesn't detract from what you have done re your own situation. And the flat WILL get there, again (and I know I've said it before) but pat yourself on the back for at least taking it on-I am currently in some sort of "waiting for tradesmen Hell" where they give you an approximate month but really you need to ask them what year they have in mind!!:)
And as for your grey hairs I wouldn't fret too much-in my case it's more nae hair than grey hair which may be genetic but I don't think stress helps either. And I'm pretty confident you "scrub up" (if I can be so bold) a helluva lot better than me! And weekends go far too quickly in my opinion-oh to find a job where I actually looked forward to a Monday (there must be one somewhere).
And Nick-no need for thanks-as I've said before I take as much out of this thread if not more than I put in so it is just gratifying to know it works for all of us in it's little way. If nothing else if I'm going to be unemployed for a while (?!) it gives me an outlet for my frustrations!! But it has never been PRINCIPALLY about that, more a "bouncing ideas/thoughts/and occasional rants off each other" type of thing.
And well done on the cupboard-another thing I wouldn't even have attempted. Or if I did you wouldn't thank me for the results:)
You are right Nick-I don't think it is our nature to be hard on ourselves, simply something we have learned to do and got so damned good at it is difficult to reverse the process but the fact we are trying to do so is positive in itself. And while the baby (Button!), male or female, won't resolve all your issues, it does give you a new sense of perspective on life. And learn from someone who knows, enjoy EVERY moment of the growing process-I love my kids dearly and always will but that tired cliche of them growing up too soon is all too true, and a lot of their formative years is a blur to me. Neverthelese they told me I was the best dad ever yesterday (mind you the competition only has one contestant!) (I sincerely hope!) and I don't THINK they were after something. So I guess I must be getting something right. And cheers for the compliment on humour/wittiness-my humour is often an acquired taste but the fact I still have it even now suggests to me that i am right to be hopeful that somewhere within me lurks the "old" Gordon and he can claw his way out eventually.
And good point about the over-thinking-one of the interesting things to have come from my "opening up" to some of my colleagues of late is that I have discovered that (shock, horror!!) their lives aren't always that easy either, and that they have had setbacks too in life. And interestingly, and connected to what you mention, one of them said she had done a few crazy things in her life which she regretted because of the way her life had changed. But yes we do "over-think" it -we ain't really all that different to anyone else.
Enough for now-I'll keep up to date with your posts and respond accordingly.
All the best
Gordon
YvonneBelle
17-08-10, 11:45
I'm not even going to start with the usual greetings as I've just read both of your last postings and I have to say 'thank you' both, simple as that.No probs! :)
Only downside is that coming to terms with 'bumps' like this is mentally tiring, and I have started to panic that I could slip back into depression, and I sooooooo don't want to go back there.Totally understand that one... but even if you went full circle I think it's extremely unlikely (and probably impossible) that you would end up in exactly the same place again. Too much work has been done (within yourself) for that to happen, so hold that thought!
...although I fully accept the Paul McKenna flightplan deviations !They are only teeny adjustments... like you do in a car on the motorway; you barely touch the wheel but you still need to concentrate to keep the car travelling straight ahead. That's how I view it - you're basically sticking to the plan (getting from A to B) but you need to keep your focus and attention and make those little adjustments (whether they be road blocks, temporary diversions... etc.) until you are back on track.
And yes... babies in themselves (whilst joy bringers and life changers) can also bring unexpected stresses as I've seen via friends and family. I remember once laughing at my then childless auntie who always used to say 'I can never understand why parents find it necessary to scream at their kids'. And behold the day when I witnessed her shout at the top of her lungs at her toddler who was running off at the time.... (hehe)
On self-destruction, I could devote a whole thread to this !Yes, I tend to call it self-sabotage. I do it all the time. Well, perhaps I should now say, I used to.... :winks:
I am soooo tired today!! I think I may have been over-doing it slightly so today is going to be a bit more laid back. Plus I didn't get a very good night's sleep last night and had some horrible dreams! Urghhh. Like a horror movie. I felt quite anxious last night with all sorts running through my mind even though I was really tired from working in the flat (which was very hot) yesterday.
More on that subject to follow...
YvonneBelle
17-08-10, 12:16
Well got the day to myself so finally catching up on your recent "deposits" into/"withdrawals" from the Bank of Gordon! Yes Nick I do like the analogy!Yes, I liked that one too... great one Nick!
But I am not prepared to carry on like this.Very good to hear you 'being so bold'...
So I have today written out my case for early retirement from the Bank with pension (of some kind)...Very positive move, even if it feels like a lost cause, it nevertheless sets some wheels in motion. I think the winds of change are a blowin'!! :D
Thanks Gordon for your kind words of reassurance re: flat, benefits etc. It IS hard but do-able as long as I accept that it will take time. Rome wasn't built in a day and certainly not single-handedly! I'm lucky that I'm having a bit of help, even from complete strangers like some of the tradesmen that have visited me lately, whether it be a piece of advice or just some friendly words of encouragement. Yesterday the gas man remarked that I'd done well with the lounge preparation and said I'd got one of the best views in the block, which I agree with. It's on the back overlooking trees and is eye level with the horizon being on the 6th floor. I also get plenty of light during the day and get to see all of the different colours in the sky as the weather changes. I've also got a good view of the different buildings dotted around the city, so apart from some of the less desirable jobs I've got to do, not bad overall.
I get the impression that you were in a fairly well paid job before so I appreciate how much you have walked away from.Yes, what some Midlanders might call 'a good wack', but I have steadily (over the last few years) become less concerned with improving my earnings and more concerned that I've been single for too long and haven't really progressed with life as I had hoped I would by this age. So my priorities have definately shifted with this recent wake up call.
I am currently in some sort of "waiting for tradesmen Hell" where they give you an approximate month but really you need to ask them what year they have in mind!!:)Hmmm, sometimes tradesman have you just where they want you don't they, and they love to flirt with lots of jobs at the same time so they are never waiting and always busy. Frustrating for you though! My flat is so small it's probably a good mini-project for me to try and get to grips with. The main issue is that it's been badly over-decorated several times, with paint on paint and all sorts of blips and hidden horrors (like the paper that is stuck fast to the the wall behind the loo and sink and splodged with tons of paint where folks just couldn't be bothered to get down there and prepare it properly). I'm currently steeling myself for that one... :huh:
oh to find a job where I actually looked forward to a Monday (there must be one somewhere).Yes, or preferably where Monday is a non-work day!! :D I feel the same. Have even considered working a different pattern to 9-5 which has become so boring over the years!
Right, I need to get ready and go out because I'm running out of happy pills and sleeping tablets and I need to get some shopping in and try and squeeze in a gym session before work resumes once again on the flat tomorrow. My dad and I are going to try our hands at wallpapering and I have to say I'm both excited and apprehensive 'cos my dad likes to think he's an expert but (bless him) the jury is still out on that one... :winks:
I'm going to post as often as I can but unless I allow myself a break (like today) I am filling my days to the brim with benefits/flat/paperwork/shopping.... and so on!
Yvonne
Hi Yvonne
Good to hear from you. I appreciate what you say at the end about posting-I may have to be a bit more sporadic myself but will be chipping in when I can. And it sounds like you are occupying your days well!!
Glad the flat is coming on and that you are appreciating it's better points now.
I have asked my Manager to contact HR on my behalf to see what my options are. Had a really tough day today so have also called my doctor-looks like I may have to concede a bit of ground and ask for a little medical crutch after all-not really what I want but have to accept doing it "on my own" is proving tough. Maybe too tough if I'm honest.
I spoke to both my kids tonight on the phone-it was their first day back at school and for my son it was first day at Secondary. I really enjoyed hearing how they got on and it just served to remind me how much they mean to me. I feel as if I have got my priorities a bit skew-wiff of late-I KNOW they are the most important thing but sometimes it gets buried under all the other crap that life puts you through. I just long for the day when the kids get their "happier" dad back regardless of how my other circumstances may be.
Anyway I am still trying to work it all out as all of us are-Nick haven't forgotten you either mate hope you are doing ok.
It's a bit of a rollercoaster ride at present but still determined to emerge victorious!!
All the best
Gordon
YvonneBelle
17-08-10, 23:39
I have asked my Manager to contact HR on my behalf to see what my options are. Had a really tough day today so have also called my doctor-looks like I may have to concede a bit of ground and ask for a little medical crutch after all-not really what I want but have to accept doing it "on my own" is proving tough. Maybe too tough if I'm honest.Well, honesty is what it's all about when it comes to your own health and listening to your body too. I used to see meds as a crutch but less so now. To me they are more like stabilizers but I'm still the one riding the bike! lol
Great to hear about the kids. It's a big thing starting secondary school. New uniform, new teachers, new friends to make. Quite a big deal when you think about it. I used to love new terms starting! Ideal time for a new bag and pencil case! :D
It's a bit of a rollercoaster ride at present but still determined to emerge victorious!!And you will! But if you need a bit of help then the doc is always there. It's always your decision one way or the other but understandable that you don't want to go back on meds. However, you will know yourself whether you feel you need to or not and if you do well I'm sure the doc will understand and support your decision.
I've had a swollen ankle this past week and it's been bothering me slightly and I wondered whether or not to go to the doc's. For some reason the pharmacist that dealt with my meds prescription gave me the third degree today; was I okay, did I understand what I was taking, did I know the sleeping tablets could be addictive... and this came as a bit of a surprise. I mentioned my slightly swollen ankle and he suggested mentioning it to my doc. Without further ado I went straight to the docs and have another appointment in the morning for some blood tests. Probably a precaution and I may have done something at the gym or decorating but the worry is when your left ankle swells it can be heart related. And with me being prone to anxiety of course my mind races and the next thing you know I have deep vein thrombosis! But, I'm slightly ashamed to say by biggest concern for tomorrow is the bloody needle.... arghh, I hate having blood drawn! :ohmy:
Anyway, best not to think of it (swoon)...
And I hope your doc's appointment goes well Gordon. Whatever you decide, you are doing it in your own best interests and because you want to get well. And fingers crossed that you have some good options to consider from work! That could also make a big difference.
I had a terrible night's sleep last night so have taken a sleeping tablet. I don't like the idea of them being addictive but will stick to taking one every other day or so or when I feel I need to. I just really hate not being able to get to sleep and this only started when I started taking meds. Normally I sleep really well. I need my energy for tomorrow's decorating and interview at the job centre re: possible courses and career options.
Nick - hope you've had a good day and that button is growing nicely! :D Ahhh, I'm excited for you!
Yvonne
Hi all
Yvonne- I am seeing my GP tomorrow (Thursday) and will try to take the same view as you-that the AD's are stabilisers and that I am still in control. I have mixed feelings about it as recent experiences with AD's have left me scared of their side effects but have to reluctantly accept I need them just now (and they MIGHT keep me in a job-I do want a career change but at the moment I need to know I'm not "out on my ear".)
I keep coming back to what is important in my life and it always comes down to my health and the kids-so why do I get so bloody bogged down in all the other flotsam and jetsam that doesn't really matter an iota? Answers on a postcard for that one...
I am sorry to hear about your ankle-I am sure it's nothing to worry about and I hope everything went ok today. I used to be scared of blood tests too but as a user of lithium in the past I got kinda used to them. Am actually wondering if it is something to stabilise my moods as opposed to an AD I need as my moods swing pretty quickly one way to the other at present.
And good luck too at the Job Centre-you are obviously a bright person and I am sure something will fall into place for you. You sound positive on the whole and that will go in your favour-and I hope the decorating is progressing apace!!
Nick-hope you are coping ok at the workplace-just keep thinking of Anna and the new arrival to come-believe me everything else is so unimportant in comparison-just wish I realised it once and indeed could still realise it sometimes now too.
Take care both of you
Gordon
YvonneBelle
19-08-10, 00:38
Hi Gordon,
Good luck at the doc's tomorrow!
My ankle is okay thanks, getting better. Typical - I woke up this morning and the swelling had reduced quite a bit so I felt a bit of a fraud going to the doc's. However, doc didn't mind and confirmed it was just bruising (likely from something repetitive at the gym) or a too-tight trainer so no blood tests were needed after all (phew!).
Thanks also for your good wishes re: the job centre. Actually, it was a bit of a waste of time. Most of the hour was spent filling out boxes on the screen and barely any time getting any valuable advice. In fact, I was the one leading the conversation most of the time and I kept thinking "well, where's the advice?" Have to admit it was all a bit disappointing and when it came to printing out what we had 'agreed', the whole lot disappeared from the screen! This is going to sound really ungrateful and possibly a bit arrogant but there's no easy way to say it - I could have done a better job myself (not that I would have wanted to mind). :huh:
Meanwhile my poor dad was hanging paper on his own and then he accidentally locked me out! He's also slightly deaf so I had to bang the door to get him to hear me... LOL
However, I did get my first attempt at hanging some paper but soon jumped back off the stool I can tell you. It's a lot harder than it looks! :ohmy:
I've reached the point where I just need to bite the bullet and move in. There's no other way... else this to-ing and fro-ing could go on for weeks!
Regarding ADs keeping you in a job, yes they might and that IS important. A career change requires a lot of energy and if you are struggling a bit then now probably isn't the right time for big changes - more a case of keeping steady. Treading water if you like, which is better than getting that sinking feeling. When you feel ready to swim you'll be off again. Sometimes we just need to feel able to cope with the basics and that's plenty to be going on with.
Even though I'm feeling a lot better I still sometimes feel overwhelmed if I think too much about what I'm doing and what still needs to be done. But I keep telling myself I can only do one thing at a time and if I achieve something each day (however small) it's good. However, through this transition I just wouldn't have been able to do a full time job aswell. So in some respects it's a good job things didn't work out and that I'm on this new path to who knows where.
Winding up a flat and decorating another one to move into (plus all of the associated paperwork) IS a full time job with overtime! I don't know how people move house and keep working. No wonder they say it's one of the most stressful things you can do. But then again I'm doing it largely on my own. My parents do help but they can only do so much. I am doing the bulk of the cleaning and the tougher jobs and no doubt I'll be hanging some paper tomorrow (somehow). I'll just have to give it a go. I'm going to give the flat a big push tomorrow/Fri and the weekend and get as much done as I can before I start moving boxes in (that I haven't even packed yet).
Good grief! I just hope I sleep tonight.
I understand what you say about your health and the kids (and it's true) but I guess your health and their welfare does depend on many factors including work, home, school, play... and all of those things combined. It must be difficult to focus less on the mundane and more on the important things when some of those things are in fact intertwined.
The main thing is feeling even-tempered I guess which is what helped me enormously with meds. I had so many emotions before; sadness, grief, fear, vulnerability and in some respects anger and frustration but right now I feel pretty level and focussed enough to deal with the things that I simply couldn't deal with several weeks ago. Progress is still slower than normal but not too far behind what I would consider to be normal for me.
Hope you feel better once you've seen the doc and have a way forward that suits you best for now - be it meds or something else. Perhaps you needed to try 'meds free' to gauge yourself which is understandable but having done that there might now be an in-between step that doesn't make you feel like you've gone backwards or that you are back to square one?
In any case, hope it goes well.
Yvonne :)
Yvonne
First of all thanks-I read your post just before I went to work this morning and it gave me the strength to get in to work-it was touch and go.
However was at docs and he has signed me off for a week-he has suggested I try St Johns Wort as he knows the problems I have had with AD's in the past.
I can't say too much over t'internet (as Peter Kay says) but there are things going on at work which shouldn't be going on and coming back to it from absence has opened my eyes up to it-it is a hellish atmosphere in there at present suffice to say. I cannot give a categorical assurance that I would have managed to keep in at work if things were being run properly but I think it's certainly a helluva lot more likely. Anyway just feel the cards will fall where they fall but will be speaking to my Union and the bank-I'm not giving up my job without a fight.
Glad all's well with the ankle and I can understand your frustration re the job centre-I'd have wanted to kick the bloody computer in!! If HM Govt want to know why half the population can't be arsed trying to find a job then they should maybe read your posting and it would tell them something.
You are right-I do believe that now is not the time for me to make massive lifestyle decisions but hope that in time I can address the issues that are affecting me with a fresh perspective. I am not out a job yet and feel something CAN be sorted out-a transfer to another branch isn't really what I want but it may be necessary as a safety valve.
You are spot on when you mention the "mundane" being intertwined with the "important"-I know deep down there is more to life than work but losing my job DOES affect all our lives and I cannot put that to one side at the moment.
Glad the decorating is keeping you going- a new career in Interior Design might be the way to go?!
Am aware past few posts have been a bit doom and gloom but remain optimistic it will all sort itself out and that there are brighter times ahead for all of us.
Gordon
YvonneBelle
21-08-10, 21:13
However was at docs and he has signed me off for a week-he has suggested I try St Johns Wort as he knows the problems I have had with AD's in the past.Hope your week is going well. Did you try the SJW?
Hope things at work improve when you return. Horrible to feel you have to fight your way through the mire just to keep going. Likelihood is there are others who may feel the same or similar about things being not so good in the office. I guess having one or two allies at work can really help with that - always good to know you are not alone with how you feel and good to know you have people you can trust and who know you well. Without that it's very hard as I learned myself in my latest new job. There wasn't time enough to make friends and I just didn't know who I could trust. I returned my laptop today, final piece of the jigsaw.
Goodness, will it ever stop raining??? It's been lashing down all day!
Yes, job centre. Another test of my patience and tolerance. Say no more. :winks:
You are spot on when you mention the "mundane" being intertwined with the "important"-I know deep down there is more to life than work but losing my job DOES affect all our lives and I cannot put that to one side at the moment.Yes, it's difficult. No easy answers but perhaps time and perseverence is the answer. It will all 'pan out' so to speak.
Glad the decorating is keeping you going- a new career in Interior Design might be the way to go?!LOL my dad said the same. He was quite complimentary about my efforts. Reckons I'd make a good decorator and designer. I'm showing some potential and have surprised him (and myself!) with my hands-on abilities.
Agree with you Gordon. Every cloud has a silver lining! An old cliche but the ones that have stood the test of time are usually true, even if we don't always believe it. 'Time passes' my grandad always says when things are rough. It's true, time passes and life goes on whether we join in or not. I'm hoping to join in a lot more once I get my new nest organised! :)
Have a good weekend - and you too Nick if you have popped in!
And everyone else... where's the sunshine gone???
Hi Yvonne and Nick (hope you are getting on ok out there)
Time passes-that's kinda what I'm clinging onto just now-can't deny that it's a pretty rough time just now but I keep myself going by thinking that I will get back to where I was before, enjoying my kids when I see them and at least coping with the other aspects of my life.
Problem is I genuinely want to be back at work BUT the cloud hanging over there makes it extremely difficult to contemplate-also have resigned myself to having to go on another AD at my next doc's visit on Thursday and of course there will no doubt be the attendant side-effects. (I tried the SJW but was put off when I read that it increases our sensitivity to sunlight, especially in fairer skinned folk.) As I am a typical "peely-waaly" Scot, anything which makes me liable to burn more than I already do puts me right off. Mind you, not much chance of that right now-it is peeing down here just now-so Yvonne you are not alone!!
A couple of girls I used to work with are coming to the house on Tuesday night to offer support (about the only "threesome" I'm likely to take advantage of these days, but I think it will help lift my spirits a bit.)
At the moment the "mundane" seems to be triumphing over the "important" but hopefully with a bit of effort by me and possibly a (hopefully short-term) medical crutch I can begin to get things in perspective again. I am not out a job yet and don't intend to be either.
Yvonne I am sure your DIY efforts are bearing fruit now-if you fancy a job as a plumber please let me know as yet again the guy who's supposed to be doing up my bathroom hasn't called when he said he would. But I really am almost past caring on that one.
I hope the two of you are having a good weekend and Nick are you still hanging in there at the workplace? Just keep thinking of Anna and the wee one to come. It will help you I'm sure.
To top off my slightly gloomy worldview today I've just noticed my wee SPL footie team are taking their obligatory "humping" from one of the evil Glesga brothers-ach well, at least I've got 5 a-sides tonight so can break somebody's leg!! (Only joking-I am of course totally against violence in all it's forms:))
Must go and get into my rigorous pre match training schedule (bottle of juice and a mars bar)
All the best-one day at a time as they say.
G
boblepeche
23-08-10, 00:18
Hi Gordon. Sorry to hear things are not going so well at the moment. It must be destressing for you to suffer so much from side effects. I do think that AD's would really be of benefit to you. I feel they actually saved my life, because if I had carried on with the horrible thoughts I was having, looking back im sure I would have acted them out from sheer desperation to be free from the pain. Fortunately I had a great psychiatrist who put me on a combination of 2 ad's and they worked.
I had been on mirtazapine for roughly 6 weeks, they helped with sleep and appatite (Both of which had been non existant), but they did nothing for my mood. I wound back up in hospital for a second time and the psychiatrist added Escitalapram. Within a week my mood lifted and the suicidal thinking left me.
Its been a long road since then, and as im sure anyone with depression will tell you, ypu take 2 steps forward and 1 step back. But at least Im heading in the right direction. I finally got access to my children last week (My X had denied me access due to my illness). They stayed over for the second time this weekend. Its great to have them hear and I love them to bits, but with them comes a whole lot of feelings I struggle with.
Whilst they are hear I know there mother is out with her new man. This I find hard and I still think about how much she meant to me. But the feelings arent as intense as they were and I am beginning to get over her. Then there is the feelings that arise when you kiss the kids goodbye and they go home again (God this is bloody difficult to deal with). But at least I have them back in my life and at least I have life to share with them. Thank god I never killed myself as there are so many great things in life still to enjoy.
Anyway, thats enough about me. Reading your posts a month or so ago helped me through a difficult time and they helped me see that there is life after depression. Things are much more positive for me now and Ive moved into a new flat too since we last spoke. I hope you and all the others out there get themselves sorted soon as I know only too well what a desperate place depression can be.
May your strength return real soon Gordon, all the very best - Bob
Bob
You will never know how much your post there meant to me-if my previous postings have helped you in any way then that is great but believe me you have just returned the favour with interest.
It sounds like we are in some sort of post split/divorce parallel universe-I shall try to deal with your points one at a time.
Firstly re meds-I agree with you fully re Mirtazapine-it helped me sleep (too damn much!!) and the weight I gained was unbelievable-not sure it really helped much elsewhere though. But I have tried the non-meds route and though I got back to work a while and also saw my kids regularly again I would be lying if I said I had coped with it all. And now I'm off work again and worried sick (there are other work-related factors in there which you will know if you have read my previous posts so not JUST down to illness but anyway).
Re what you said about Escitalapram-(Cipralex?)-I am due to speak to my doctor today and I know this is one he has been keen for me to give a go-I am certainly going to go onto some sort of medication as I cannot go on like this just now. I feel slightly guilty but can just about allow myself a wry smile as I had got slightly "smug" (only slightly!) that I was one of these people who could cope on my own and work it all out by myself without medication but I guess I was wrong (though that is still my fervent hope in the future).
It's your bit about splitting up and the kids which resonated with me the most though. Yet again I have put off seeing them tonight (my ex has actually been really good with amended times recently but her patience will eventually wear thin I know-and I don't actually know if she is seeing someone else and also don't know how I would feel about that). I feel so guilty as I want to see them at normal times (which for me is Saturday 9 -7 and Monday Night stayovers plus half of any holidays too) but I see no point in them seeing their dad a tearful wreck. But meds helped me before and I know they can get me onto an even keel.
I sympathasise with your own plight Bob-I am so glad you have got access to them at last and I know that will help you. But I know where you are coming from-I do see mine regularly (usually) and it's when they leave to go back to their mums that hits me hardest too. Although I try not to do it to myself I cannot help but think back to the better times when we were a proper "family-unit"-though conveniently ignoring the bloody awful times (for all of us) at the end. And I don't hate my ex, and she is the mother of my children, but there is no going back-I DO accept that.
And the kids have definitely kept me alive Bob-we can both relate to that.
I am conscious my thread has been gloomy of late as I have taken a downturn but nevertheless I know I can get back on track.
Your words meant a lot to me Bob-you too keep strong-we do have everything to live for-just as depressives not always easy to see that.
Gordon
YvonneBelle
24-08-10, 00:01
Hi Gordon,
Hope your meeting with the doc went well? Good that you are facing what's happening head on too. I'm hopeful that whatever meds you decide on will pick you up again and help you back on track! :)
Glad you are getting something from your thread. It helps to get things off your chest I'm sure. Good therapy this stuff!
My left eyelid is twitching again. It was happening all the time when I was at my worst but then died off once I started taking citalopram but I could feel it trying to twitch and failing... it was quite funny actually! But since my 'blip' started a couple of days ago the eyelid twitch is back. I'm wondering if my body has become accustomed to the meds already? Saying that, I still feel okay most of the time.
Spent some time alone in the flat today just tidying up and trimming bits of wallpaper here and there. My dad is great, but messy! Bless him he's doing is best. I'm getting the 'hang' of hanging wallpaper now and made some more progress today. Starting to see real progress now but there is still loads to do. I'm sort of running two flats - keeping one clean and tidy for potential buyers and trying to decorate the other. I'm hoping to do a lot over bank holiday weekend. I suppose I've been lucky in the past in that most places I've lived in have been standard magnolia and white and clean and tidy. However, this is a good lesson for me and maybe this hard graft is actually part of my recovery in some grand plan. Who knows?
I'm really trying to move on emotionally as well as doing all this stuff and trying to focus on the now and the future and not so much the past. I know where the top of my 'slippery slope' is if you know what I mean so I am trying my best to steer clear of it. Sometimes I'm my own worst enemy and indulge in thoughts or behaviour that are detrimental to my health and recovery. It's that self-destruct button thing... kind of hard to explain but a bit like playing heartbreak music when you are down or going through a box full of emotions and memories that you normally keep locked away.
I hope you are feeling better for having spoken to the doc and that you begin to feel much better soon!
Yvonne :)
Hey guys !
I'll post more fully in the next day or so. Just wanted to say I'm really sorry to hear you're having a bit of a tough time Gordon, but, I've got every faith that you're get to a better place. You've certainly helped me over recent weeks, so I know you can do the same for yourself....
Don't really know why I haven't posted for a while- you've both being on my mind. I think its actually down to taking Dr Weekes advice about 'masterly inactivity' a bit too far. In other words, I've taken trying not to think about things to the point of not writing down how I feel.....Note to self- must try not to be so literal !
Take care
Nick
Hi-and Nick good to hear from you.
Guys I don't know how to put this but am in a really bad place right now. I feel bad about this because the point of this thread in the first place was to be positive and offer encouragement. But right now I think I'm back to square one. Really down and now on Cipralex which scares me s!*tless but I have to accept I am not coping without meds and probably came off medication too soon. I can only hope I can "ride out" the side effects and that I can get back to a better place-there is a time for "no meds" but I reckon I have to see this one out for as long as it takes.
I have got back into the cycle of putting back time with kids and of course am off work too which adds to my anxiety-in fact my anxiety is crippling at the moment and I would say it, more than depression, is my main problem right now.
I see the doctor later today and he is going to refer me to a psychiatrist (we have already agreed this) but that scares the Hell out me too. If any of you out there have any positive experiences about this it might help put my mind at rest.
I am now firmly putting house/job concerns on the back foot-all that matters now is getting better and being there for my two fantastic kids. I know I shouldn't but I constantly berate myself for not being the strong dad they need right now -they are the reason I keep going as right now things seem really bleak.
I can survive short-term on half pay if bank decide to bear with me but what will be will be. I cannot believe that a few short weeks ago I felt so positive and now I'm back in the mire.
But I will dig myself out again. And if as Nick and others have said this thread has helped them then I guess I am looking for some encouragement now. This thread HAS helped me and I am going to be posting on it still from time to time-and I hope soon that these postings will be on a more positive note.
Thank you to everyone out there who has contributed in any way-please feel free to keep posting-it helps knowing there are others out there feeling the same way.
Gordon
YvonneBelle
26-08-10, 21:12
Hi Gordon,
Throughout this thread you have been incredibly honest and I think that's very important. If you are struggling, you are struggling - no two ways about it but at least you have recognised what's happened which is a head start at least!
The way I view it (in my usual visual style) is that you have gone down the 'big snake' in snakes n ladders having almost reached the top... but Gordon you can have as many go's as you like. Just keep throwing that dice and keep on going! I loved that game as a kid and it reminds me of life - sometimes a helpful ladder and sometimes a slippery snake.
I hope your meds will help you beyond the initial side effects. It must be tough for you at the moment being signed off and feeling low again and feeling more anxious than depressed.
Talking to a psychotherapist might not be as daunting as you think - I'd definately give it some serious consideration.
I'm sorry to hear that you are having a tough time right now but please keep posting and letting us know how you're doing whether it's a good day or a bad day.
This is your thread after all!!
All the best,
Yvonne :)
Thanks for the support Yvonne.
I know you are right-it is tough right now but I will try to look at the bigger picture. And in relative terms it hasn't been as bad a day as I've had recently.
I popped into the drop-in at the local Mental health service today-don't really know why but it did show me that the concept of mental health is all relative-I have the utmost respect for ANYBODY going through this but I emerged feeling maybe my life wasn't quite so bad after all.
I am keeping an open mind (?!) about the psychiatric thing-I do feel that despite the progress I have made (and I HAVE made progress) I am "locked in" to a totally negative and bleak way of thinking which I need to turn around-the meds have their place in (hopefully) lifting my spirits sufficiently to take on board what I am told by the therapist.
I actually think what happens to me-and I dare say many others- is that stressful events lead me into the darkness of depression/anxiety-last year it was the house move from Hell which tipped me over-on this occasion I think the recent developments at work have had an adverse effect.
So I guess "coping mechanisms" may be in order so that I don't "catastrophise" so much (good CBT word!).
As you'll have gathered from my two posts today I follow a fairly familiar pattern amongst the depressed and anxious in that mornings are a living Hell but I improve (in general terms) as the day goes on to a level of "ok-ness" in the evening. I have reached out to more people recently and have found I have more friends than I imagined-this site has helped too of course.
So I am going to keep posting-and whilst some of these may be on the "down" side I also hope to retain some positivity and humour-that after all is what I wanted (and still want) this thread to be primarily about.
Anyway I DO go on-bit knackered now probably effect of the pills so bit of telly then bed methinks.
Thanks again Yvonne and likewise keep me posted on your progress be it DIY, health progress or whatever. We are all in this together.
G
YvonneBelle
26-08-10, 23:58
Thanks Gordon,
I have every confidence that you will work through this somehow and take the rough with the smooth. I sense a strong character lurks beneath! :)
DIY-wise I took great pleasure in a small discovery today! It was the unveiling of some glass behind layers of paper and paint. Turns out the panel above the lounge door is actually glass which when revealed once again will let more light into the hallway. So I went to B&Q earlier and bought a glass scraper and another scraping tool that gets into nooks and crannies and around pipes. While I was there I also found some 'bargain' expensive wallpaper in a rummage barrel - just the amount I needed for the lower portion in the lounge and with it being a plain-ish design it doesn't really matter about batch numbers. Laurence Lewellyn Bowen eat your heart out! :winks: I got my paper at a bargain price!
Talking of bargains... I found another in the shape of a blind and some curtains for the bedroom. Hooray for Tesco Direct! (maybe I should get royalties for advertising? hehe).
So my never-ending decorating is - never-ending! However, over the bank holiday weekend I will be working full-time on it. I don't care how slow the progress is. I only intend to do the place once for the next couple of years so I'm learning and doing at the same time. So far, so good!
Glad to hear you are getting lots of support Gordon. It does make an important difference and it sounds like you have a good GP too.
Hard as it might be, try not to worry about work for the time being. I felt incredibly guilty about work during the first couple of weeks of being away but then as soon as I began to improve I was able to look back and realise just how unhappy I was there. I might be jobless right now but I'm looking at doing some night school in September whilst applying for different types of work. It could be all change by the end of the year - who knows?? My life might not be recognisable by then but if that's the case then I'm not sure I mind too much as long as the changes are positive of course!
Keep at it Gordon we're all rooting for you!
Yvonne
boblepeche
27-08-10, 22:46
I see the doctor later today and he is going to refer me to a psychiatrist (we have already agreed this) but that scares the Hell out me too. If any of you out there have any positive experiences about this it might help put my mind at rest.
Hi Gordon, I cant say too much as I work for the NHS in mental health (Currently off sick). My experience of psychiatrists is mostly very positive indeed. I currently work with a female psychiatrist and she is the most professional, caring docter I have ever met. Her knowledge of medications is excellent and she is brilliant with people too. If I hadnt worked in the same team I would be more than happy to have her as my Doc.
You should trust a psychiatrist with your care far more than a gp. Most GPs (Speaking from personal experience, not proffesional) are not as good as they should be. A psychiatrist is afterall a specialist.
I landed in Hospital for the first time earlier this year. The psychiatrist was excellent and immediately identified that I wasnt sleeping or eating. She stopped the meds I had been on for 5 months and gave me something more sedetary. At long last I slept at night and dint wake up at 4am after only getting to sleep 3 or 4 hours earlier. The problem now was I overslept, but I was off work so it didnt matter. My appetitie came back almost overnight, again it was almost too good.
So I was getting some sleep and eating. My mood didnt lift though and upon discharge I lived with horrible horrible thoughts for well over 2 weeks before I eventually wound back up in hospital. This time they added a second anti depressant. Combination therapy its called. The psychiatrist explained why she felt this necassery and what I could expect. She was excellent with me and again what shone through was that she genuinely cared for me and you could tell she was on my side. This second medication did the trick and touch wood I have been free of those suicidal thoughts almost ever since. In my book the lady psychiatrist was brilliant.
I was then discharged to a community team from another area (I couldnt have my colleagues visit me). The psychitrist this time was male. Again he was professional and what really shone through again was that he actually cared. He has visited every week for the past 2 months, he takes an interest in me and my children, the man is a true gent.
Anyway thats enough of my ramblings. Please dont fear the psychiatrist. My experience tells me that most are excellent and have your best interests at heart.
I hope your on the mend soon, and please keep us posted on whats happening for you, as although we dont know you personally, we care too.
boblepeche
27-08-10, 23:01
On another note Ive been feeling pretty bad these last few days myself. I think its more anxiety than depression but its not been a pleasant few days at all. I understand the cause of the situation. I am currently going through mediation to sort out access to the children and financial matters surrounding the split. Today was the first time Ive been reduced to taers since I was in hospital. This has brought back all those strong feelings for my Ex. Being dumped is just not pleasant at all and the thought of her now with someone else is so hard to cope with. I actually feel very angry that she has been able to move on whilst Im still stuck ruminating over what once was.
I keep asking myself how much longer this will go on. I guess were all unique in how quick we recover from these things. Ive spoke to some people, married 3 or 4 times who get over breakups like getting over a cold. Others have told me it takes 6months, others have said it took them 2 years.
I always try to remember what my doc and cpn have told me. I have experienced good times recently, and these were very real. So the fact you can experience good times is proof that you can get out of the depression.
Anyway, the kids are with me this evening and they have helped lift me up a bit. Im dreading them going back tomorrow, but we shall deal with that when it comes.
Yvonne, Bob thanks for your support.
Yvonne-I am TRYING to not worry too much about work, though I will keep in touch with them and see if there is any leeway available to me while I recover. My gut instinct is that I am going to need some time off again to get myself sorted out-though I DO want to work (Bank or otherwise-now isn't the time for career changes though hopefully in time I can look at that).
But it is down to brass tacks now-me, my health and my kids-absolute basics. They are all that TRULY matter now.
I understand many of the reasons I am in this dark place, and don't understand some others-hopefully a psychiatrist can help me with this.
Which brings me to Bob-thanks for your words of reassurance on the psychiatry front, and for sharing your own experience first hand. One thing I am interested in Bob, like you I am sleeping till 4 then can't get back to sleep (Diazepam doesn't really seem to be helping and I'm wary of it anyway). So I agree a good night sleep (and eating) are very important.
In the fairly near future though I would like to make a return to the workplace-even in a reduced capacity at first if need be-but don't want to be sedated up to my eyeballs as that makes that difficult-I assume the meds you were given were a fairly short-term thing?
Anyway, as I've said before I sympathasise completely re the kids part-mine visit this afternoon and am looking forward to seeing them but am so emotionally vulnerable right now I worry I can hold it together in front of them. It IS hard Bob when they aren't there, but at least you are seeing them again-take comfort from that-they are what has kept me alive recently.
Thanks again both of you.
Gordon
boblepeche
28-08-10, 11:35
Hi Gordon, I think the psychiatrist will be well placed to advise you on the best meds. What helped me sleep was mirtazapine. Initially I was well over sedated. It took a month to wear off properly. Now I take it at bedtime, an hour later I feel drowsey and I go to bed and dont wake up till 8-9 am the next day.
Initially I was on citalopram which I believe contributed to my inability to sleep. Once I was on mirtazapine they added escitalopram which research shows to have least side effects (Idont think I got any from this med, perhaps a little bit of anxiety early on). I think the mirtazapine helps me sleep and the escitalapram lifts my mood and eases the anxiety. Its a combination that has benefitted me.
So the combination worked for me. They didnt make everything perfect but I do feel better placed to cope although I do still get bad days, usually when confronted by memories of the past. Having friends around, activities planned and chill out time is of great benefit too. I hardly ever feel depressed or anxious when I have something to do.
Hi Bob
Thanks for your reply.
Without coming across as a smarta*!e I thought it might be mirtazapine when you mentioned a sedative-I've used this one before and certainly did get a good kip on it. Unfortunately for me it also had side effects I couldn't live with.
The escitalopram is what I'm on just now-early days but the insomnia is a problem but have been told it does settle down. I really don't want a med (long-term) that is going to make me want to sleep all the time.
Appreciate your input as always-been really helpful. And enjoy your time with your kids!
G
YvonneBelle
29-08-10, 11:59
Hi Gordon,
Hope your weekend is going well and you are getting used to new meds?
Getting to sleep is a bit of an issue for me with citalopram which I alleviate every other day with a mild sleeping tablet just to get me off to sleep. They are effective for about four hours but I've been advised not to take them regularly or for any length of time. Saying that I did take one last night because I was really tired and then my elderly neighbour rolled home drunk (!) so there was a lot of crashing and banging going on! (I thought the young uns were supposed to be the drunken rebels?? :ohmy:)
This is partly why I'm looking forward to coming off meds with a return to normal sleep patterns (one hopes!) and libido back to normal (one really hopes!).
The temptation to start coming off meds after only three months is high but it's mainly the sleep thing. I do get to sleep (eventually) but it takes a lot longer than normal on citalopram. It has improved slightly but I still prefer the nights when I allow myself a mild sleeping tablet.
I had a really long lie in this morning but am off to Homebase soon because I somehow managed to buy the fittings for an extendable curtain pole without the actual pole! (Some 'teef' had probably removed it from the packaging leaving me with all the bits and bobs.) I remember buying it from a bargain barrel without really looking at it properly - just thought I need one of those! (Girly DIY moment) :blush:
Hope you are doing okay Gordon as the days go along. Remember, from your previous experience you'll know that these things do take time, so no rushing! :winks:
On the DIY front I struggled papering behind the radiators yesterday to the point where I got ratty and my dad started laughing! Each job I do is a lesson. I'm now going to paper down from the top and paper up from the bottom in two separate strips so there'll be a hidden strip unpapered behind the radiators but sod it!! Who's going to see?? :D
Hope it's a peaceful day oop there Gordon.
Yvonne
Evening all - can't believe its monday night already !
Firstly, Gordon, I'm really sorry that you're having a tough time at the moment. I've just been reading yours\Yvonnes\Bobs postings over the past 10 days, and I can almost feel how hard things are for you at the moment. But, what I will say is that your postings made a massive difference to me when I was in a similar place, so why not look back at the beginning of the thread and remind yourself how you felt then. Because believe me, you'll get back to that place must sooner than you think. I know I've babbled (!) on about it before, but do try and dip into Dr Weekes book. The thing I've taken from it is to allow myself to feel anxious, guilt, shame, panic etc without adding to those feelings- floating above them (or at least trying) really does help.
This might sound daft (at least it'll make you smile !) but I kinda see myself as cork (told you !), that, if I give the time, space and care to, I will eventually bob back up to the surface....and that is what is happening, slowly but surely. Great thing about you Gordon is as Yvonne says, you're totally honest about what you're feeling and why your feeling the way you do. And that honesty I think is key to getting to a better place. And even better, you have all the skills and qualities that you need to get to a better place- maybe just give yourself a bit of time at the moment to join me bobbing to the surface..... And one day I'll come up with a good analogy.....:D
Yvonne -flat seems to be shaping up nicely -glad you've discovered the 'inner' decorator in you ! Shame you can't share piccies on here (can you ?) but I do get a nice mental image of a warm, clean home that you're creating. And I do wonder whether you're investing so much time and effort in the flat as a statement to yourself in terms of putting down some roots....Hope this does'nt sound presumptuous off me -just reading your last few postings, it really struck me how much time, effort you're putting in -just feels like a real labor of love. Any progress on the job front, notwithstand jobcentre plus's efforts.....!
As I said in my last mini-post, guess I haven't posted recently because i) I've been doing more hours at work (5-6 per day) ii) Anna needs my support more than ever at the mo + I'm trying to 'normalise' how I feel by not spending so much time thinking about how I feel, if you know what I mean.....! Starting with most important first- Anna and button are fine- only 8 weeks to go :yesyes: !! In fact, 'bump' has now become a fully fledged 'baby pod' !! Anna's definitely in the 'just want the little 'un' out stage, which is completely understandable....and I'm been a good husband by offering tea on tap, listening and ducking when the saucepan comes flying my way -only joking ! Great thing is that we're on the same page about the baby- both nervous, excited, scared, excited, anxious, excited- all in equal measure. And that's fine.
Work is OK insofar as I'm just treating is a place where I go to help me get better so I can support Anna and the little 'un. I know that sounds a bit artificial, but it does seem to be working. And like Gordon, I've been more open with colleagues about why I've been off, and I think its really helped them insofar as at least that have a reason now for why I've been absent. And it has helped me too in that the guilt\shame has started to float away.
So, I guess, overall am doin ok. And I want to end by remind Gordon that you gave me hope with this thread, so why not give yourself that gift of hope again. Sorry that sounds trite - I do genuinely mean it. Dr Weekes (yes, again !) says something to the effect that there is no point to which we might fall from which we cannot rise to become a fine person again. And believe me Gordon, you will rise, I know you will.
Right, time to make me egg sarnies for work !
Hi all
Firstly thanks to all of you for your messages of support.
I am still hanging in there-on 10mg Cipralex (no major side effects so far) and doc has also given me Lorazepam to take as and when needed espec for sleep as insomnia pretty awful at the moment. Being very careful with the Lorazepam as you'd expect.
I have another meeting with my work on Wednesday next week-I guess any return will depend on whether I have settled into the tablets a bit-I do want to get back as it's driving me crazy being in the house though I am getting out and about as much as I can.
I am anxious about the job situation as I don't really want to lose it and hope that I can reach an accomodation with my employer. Past two days have been a bit better (it's all relative!!) and I have had friends round offering support. My eldest son has also been very mature about it all to the extent of calming me down on Saturday when I got a bit upset!! I am priviliged indeed to have two such fine kids and I will pull through this as I am going to be the strong dad that they both need.
Anyone who has read my posts (and hasn't fallen asleep!!) will know I have a latent optimism even during the worst of times that I can get myself back on my feet-and Nick I will continue to look at these words of wisdom from Dr Weekes-so far I've found myself saying "Yeah that's EXACTLY how I feel" at a rate of just about every paragraph-a lot of sense in there even if it is a bit old-fashioned in places.
Yvonne thanks too for your kind comments and glad the DIY is going well- I will keep posting but at the moment it's a bit sporadic because of meds/moods etc... But give up? Never!!
Anyway thanks again everyone
Gordon
YvonneBelle
02-09-10, 00:27
Hi Guys!
Great to hear your news - and Gordon, great to hear you are still hanging in there! At least you are taking action, positive steps in the right direction. Don't worry if you can't always post - totally understandable. The main thing is you are heading towards getting back on track! Good luck on the job front. At least you are communicating and they understand what's going on.
Nick - exciting times ahead, only eight weeks! :) I'm looking fwd to the day when you can share the news of button's arrival! Sounds like you have work in perspective and you actually sound very positive and upbeat which is good.
You're right what you say about the flat and decorating. It is turning into a labour of love. This is because I do want to make it nice despite the challenges (and there are a few!) and it's the first place I've really had to call my own and decorate for several years so from that point of view whilst it's not perfect or ideal, it's definately worth putting the effort in and it's beginning to pay off. I had a visitor today from the housing association and she made a note of the few issues that I've uncovered - mainly in the kitchen. She agreed it wasn't in the best condition and is going to pass on a report to see if she can get me more help and/or decorating vouchers. She said I'd done really well in the lounge and bedroom and I think this show of effort prompted her to try and get me some more help which will be gratefully received.
I dropped a clanger this morning but on reflection I suppose it's quite funny!
I've been having trouble getting to sleep on the nights that I don't take a sleeping tablet (I'm taking them alternate nights) and last night was no exception. Was awake until 3am. This led to me sleeping in and I was really annoyed and frustrated about losing valuable time in the flat when I should have been up and about. Instead of that I got up late and still felt really tired. In my confusion, instead of taking my citalopram with breakfast I took a sleeping tablet.... OMG it was totally done absent mindedly!! As soon as I realised I thought sh!t!! What do I do?? LOL I hate being sick so just resigned myself to the inevitable drowsiness. I decided not to take a citalopram and will resume tomorrow as normal but in the meantime I've put the sleeping tablets somewhere else so I can't make that mistake again!
I still went to the flat but was a bit spaced out and dreamy. :blush:
I had to go because of the visit that I was expecting but thankfully the effects had started to wear off by mid-afternoon and I picked up again and even managed to hang a roller blind (woooooh!).
I can't believe what I did but it's taught me a lesson. Next time I see the doc I'm going to ask if I can come off meds slowly. I really don't want to be on them any more, never mind the sleeping tablets!
Anyway - hope you're not laughing too hard... but if you are then I really don't mind!! :D
I'm not normally such a clutz but in my defence, I was still half-asleep!
Doh!
Yvonne
Oh Yvonne ! That's a classic ! Thanks for sharing it with us- youre right- it has put a smile on my face but only in the sense of laughing with you ! I'm sooo pleased to hear that youre getting a lot out of giving the flat a total makeover- I think its going to give you a really strong platform for whatever you decide to do next in terms of work.....
Gordon-stick in there mate- you're worth it. I can almost hear how difficult things are for you at the moment in your posting. But this is just a blip (appreciate it doesn't feel like it at the moment) and you will come through it. Really pleased you've got friends popping in and your managing to pootle around a bit. And I think its great that your allowing the kids to support you. Yes, they are great kids, but part of the reason for them being able to care for you is that you're a great dad who's givn them the gifts of empathy and compassion- don't forget that. When I was really struggling 6 weeks ago, Suz really helped me by saying how close I was to getting out of my prison. bobbing back to the surface etc. And I believed her as a artice of faith because I knew she'd been there and understood. So I want to say the same thing to you- your so, so, close to been in a much healthier better place for you. I know it doesn't feel like it, but from my perspective, your well down the road of rethinking your values and changing your behaviour so that you can have the life you deserve. Guess I'm just trying to let you know how close you are to a better place. And you've still got that Gordon dry sense of humour going on, which is definitely a good sign ! And stick with Dr Weekes- I know its almost Mr Chumley-Warner style in places (remember that Harry Enfield character ?!) but she is absolutely right about the facing, accepting, floating..... I had a tricky day at work yesterday, and 'floating' allowed me to stay there, rather than doing my usual running to the hills- result !
Right, time to shower ! Take care guys, especially Gordon.
Nick
YvonneBelle
08-09-10, 10:22
Hi Nick,
Glad to hear you are floating rather than running... :D (been there, know how that feels!) and just remember how far you've come along. It takes a lot of strength to be able to do that so keep up the good work! (T-button - when's the due date?)
Just bumping this thread to say to Gordon keep yer chin up mate and hope you are doing okay. Understand if you're not up to posting right now so I'm just sending some *good vibes*. Hang in there and hope the new meds are doing their stuff!
I'm still finding 1 of a 1000 jobs to be done in the flat but making progress all the time. By the time I'm done and my 'vision' has been created it will be a fab little city pad, no doubt about it! All I need now is a job, man-in-my-life, some new clothes... new friends, a social life... (etc. etc.) but in my book, anything is possible! :)
In the meantime, keep fighting the good fight Gordon and hope to see you back here soon!
Yvonne
Yvonne/Nick-Just wanted to briefly thank you both for your support/good wishes.
I am struggling big time with the Cipralex at the moment-worse than when I wasn't on anything. Am seeing the psychiatric nurse tomorrow pending a possible referral to the psychiatrist proper and will discuss everything with them. Am hoping to be back at work next week possibly afternoons only but that may be optimistic.
Don't want to "diss" Cipralex it works for some but I have just felt like a zombie with no sign of improvement and been crawling up the walls at times!!
Will continue to post albeit perhaps a bit more sporadically for a wee while but just wanted you to know I am hanging on in there and hope you guys are doing ok too-feel free to update anytime. And I am still confident I will get there!!
Thanks again
Gordon
YvonneBelle
09-09-10, 23:45
Aww Gordon thanks for the update. Must be horrible feeling like that but just keep thinking you'll be out on the other side soon and this is just some temporary turbulence!
I'm still decorating would you believe, but I'm fighting several years worth of neglect so it's not an easy/quick job. Saying that I have surprised myself by achieving more than I thought I'd be capable of. And there's something to be said for doing a day's hard graft; something different to the mental stress that I used to face behind office doors.
Today I had the pleasure (although that word DOES seem inappropriate) of scraping the last of the paper and thick dollops of paint from behind the loo... (whilst calling Jesus, Mary and anyone else who might be listening!!!). I think I said Holy **** a few times too..... :D (Hope nobody is offended!!). Maybe I watched too much Batman when I was a kid or something... LOL
Keep on keeping on! :)
ElizabethJane
10-09-10, 16:21
Dear Gordon I was wondering where you had got to. I'm sorry that you are having problems with cipralex. It not an anti d I have been on and I have taken a few. Please hang on in there. We are all rooting for you me especially (in my best estuary Essex accent!) I don't know about struggling back to work if you are severely depressed you will find it hard to concentrate. I look foward to hearing your news soon. EJ.
Hi EJ
I'm still here-the Cipralex has been tough going (still is) but on a more positive note past couple of nights I have felt a bit better to the extent of reading a book and actually taking it in plus enjoying my music and the tv again. So hopefully a good sign-I know I need to stick with my meds this time-I am being referred to a psychiatrist who can hopefully help me too.
Yes I admit I don't know about the work aspect-my anxiety particularly in the mornings is pretty grim just now though I'm told the Cipralex does assist this eventually-trouble is at first it actually INCREASES anxiety-but I guess as you well know no AD is perfect.
I think of you too as I do of many on this site-we are all suffering in our own ways and just doing our best to get through it as best we can. The support from yourself and others on here has kept me going through some rough times of late.
And while I am no strapping Jock I guess I do have a bit of Northern grit about me and am determined to get to a better frame of mind-seeing my kids tomorrow which will help-they have been a real help during this and mature beyond their years-just have to remember that when they start fighting like cat and dog tomorrow!!
You take care EJ-you are in my thoughts.
Gordon
This a lovely thread, it really is...people's struggles, their good moments and their bad times...their humour.
Thank you.
Thanks Agnes
I am going through a hard time at present but have always tried to be positive in this thread in the main-I am glad you like it. It has certainly kept me going through some rough times recently.
I assume because you have joined the site you have your own problems and would just like to wish you well in beating them. Certainly people on here will be glad to help and offer support.
Gordon
Morning Gordon, Yvonne and others
Gordon- stick in there fella. I know this is the hardest point- when the meds actually feel like they are making things worse, not better, but you will come through, and the anxiety will diminish. But it is horrible, so my thoughts are with you. How did you get on with the psychiatric nurse ? Think I agree with EJ- on the one hand, its good that your thinking about work, because that means you're still in 'realtime' (so to speak), but on the other hand, all that matters now is you and your wellbeing- work can wait a little while....And if you fancy a chat anytime, let me know and we can catch up in the chatroom
Yvonne- sounds like the manhatton loft is coming on apace ! You're so right about the benefits of a hard days physical graft in terms of tangible achievements as opposed to us sitting in offices. ..... Any progress on the job front ?
Last week was pretty busy, hence my lack of posting. Almost back to full hours at work but I'm still easing myself in in terms of taking on responsibilities, going to meetings etc. If I'm honest, my sole reason for going to work is to use it to help progress my return to 'normality', whatever that is ! So, unlike in the past, I'm deliberately not pushing myself to get back to my normal operating capacity as soon as possible. More importatly, only 6 weeks to go until button arrives !! Very exciting- mother nature has now well and truly kicked in so Anna just wants to bring button into the world and be able to move again !
I'll post more fully later in the week. My thoughts are still with you both, especially Gordon. You've still got that dry sense of humour going, which is always a good sign !
Take care
Nick
Hi Gordon
It's great to read someone expressing our battle so well.
I have been on the slow journey to recovery for about a year now. There are many small and large hurdles to jump. We have to risk falling at the hurdles to reach the finish line even if we don't know the prize on offer. Refusing at any fence will just leave us with a feeling of failure and wondering why we didn't jump on.
So far I have picked up a few scratches and bumps but not broken anything.
Thanks for your post.
Steve
YvonneBelle
13-09-10, 22:41
Hi Gordon,
Glad to see you're still posting from time to time, but sorry to hear that you're still experiencing increased anxiety. This too shall pass... (although I can't think for the life of me who said that!) but it popped into my head so I thought I'd say it anyway! :) I think it's great that this thread is still going - the truth resonates and I think this is a very open and honest thread - as it should be. I'm sure many reading this can empathise with much of what you've said over the weeks and it's great that it helps to keep your spirits up. Hope the meds settle soon, I know it sometimes takes a while.
Nick - had to laugh at the Manhattan Loft! (It's more 'shabby chic' to be honest!) but it's an ongoing project. I found a loose tile behind the bath taps on a shelf and on closer inspection, the whole of the tile shelf needs replacing because the board underneath has bowed, causing the grout to crack and the tiles to become loose. So now I'm getting a lesson in tiling repairs from my dad... oh joy! And, why do people who install baths think it's a good idea to leave bricks, rubble, pens and old rags underneath? Jeez. That's just lazy! :mad:
Anyway, enough DIY - not long now until button arrives... weee!
On the job front, not much is happening to be honest. I'm finding it very difficult to spread my time and have been feeling anxious about what jobs to go for and whether I even feel ready to return to work. I'm working so hard trying to get the flat ready and have been struggling with tiredness and low mood for the past few days. No matter how tired I am, I can't drop off to sleep at night and feel very tired in the mornings. I am trying not to take sleeping tablets but sometimes cave in because I'm so tired.
And for some reason, I'm feeling more anxious than normal lately... every little thing seems to get elevated in my mind. It's a wonder my parents have put up with me - I've been fussing about everything - did I leave the light on, what if it doesn't work, that doesn't fit... etc. etc. I can hear myself fretting but can't seem to stop it. I wish I could be more relaxed about things but I think it's mainly because I'm now on a low income and am worried about getting settled with so little money to spend. No matter how hard you try - moving and relocating (and re-decorating) has many hidden costs.
Ah well, it's still enjoyable, despite what I say because it's mine to do with as I please and I have the foresight and patience to know that it will come good and I'll eventually have a nicely decorated flat to enjoy living in. It's just a pity some of the neighbours don't have the same outlook and instead prefer to cause damage or throw their litter. Without wishing to sound like Victor Meldrew, I can't quite belieeeeve how little respect some people have for a roof over their head. They should try not having a roof as was the case when I was forced to return from abroad with no job or home to return to. If it wasn't for family I would have struggled big time... and in some respects is probably why I'm so grateful to get a place at all. And despite the amount of hard work it is now taking to undo many careless wrongs that previous tenants have inflicted on the place... there will come a point (hopefully some time soon!) when I can step back and feel pleased and proud of what I've managed to achieve.
I'm sure once I get properly settled in the flat I'll be back at work. Aside from needing a regular income, it will be another piece in the jigsaw called 'getting my life back on track'!
Keep posting guys! It's good to hear your news and how you are getting on.
Yvonne
Morning all !
Feel a bit like a London bus- I don't post for a week, and then I post on two consecutive days !!
Gordon- hope you had a better day yesterday, and that you're able to concentrate a little better and feel more in realtime. One thing I found when I was where you are now (a few weeks ago) is that once I stabilised on the meds, I 'floated' to the surface (you'll be used to my dodgy metaphors by now !) much quicker than I have in the past, and I'm sure you'll find the same. I'm still sticking with the Dr Weekes mantra of 'face, accept, float and let time pass'- how are you getting on with it ?
Yvonne- I like chabby chic ! Seriously though, its good to hear that you're still enjoying project flat and getting a lot out of it. Which leads me to:
I'm feeling more anxious than normal lately... every little thing seems to get elevated in my mind.
I'm sure you're right, whilst your conciously focusing on the flat and getting better, I bet your subconcious is mulling over the bigger picture in terms of jobs etc. And, I wonder if your anxiety could be slightly heightened linked to the very real physical (and emotional) effort your putting into the flat i.e. do you think on some level putting down very real roots in the way you are might be causing a few flutters ? Just a thought....
Following on from what I said yesterday, I think I'm doing OK. Really pleased that I'm excited at the prospect of button arriving soon (!) without being thrown into apoplexy or panic. I feel Anna can sense that I'm genuinely here for her and the little 'un at the moment, and that I'm not trying too hard to be one thing or another (i.e. perfect husband, worker bee etc). So, except for the occasional hormone-related spat (!), we're doing pretty well at the moment.
Work is a bit more of a mixed bag. As I said yesteday, on one level, things are going well in that I'm not pushing myself to get back to full operating Nick capacity asap. But, I can sense this residual feeling of worthlessness 'monkeying' around in my head. So, whilst I'm trying not to focus consciously on these thoughts (i.e. I'm floating) I know they are still around, and I don't sleep very well because of them. Tend to go to bed, sleep for an hour, wake up (feeling wide awake), spend an hour watching tv etc and then go back to bed. So, my sleep is pretty broken up and I don't really wake in the morning feeling refreshed, which I guess is the norm for most people ! Any suggestions on how I can relax more at night would be gratefully received....
Final thought to Gordon-just want you to know that I'm thinking of you. Hope today's a better day.
Nick
To all who have posted messages of support-thank you.
I am still (just about) hanging in there-I HAD to come off the Cipralex, which I know some might think foolhardy, but they were giving me really dark thoughts which i won't go into detail about but did 3 weeks and insomnia, not eating at all, massive anxiety (worse than when I wasn't on them)-people say "ride the storm" but I AM a strong person by and large but couldn't persevere. I have a gut feeling that SSRI meds in general are just not for me, they just wind me up even more. I am back on small dose of Mirtazapine to help me sleep at night as much as anything else, doctor is good but think he doesn't know what else to do so it's a case of a holding strategy till I see a psychiatrist.
Another reason I hated the Cipralex is I saw my kids for a short while on Saturday afternoon and just was dozing off-felt terrible-at least my head is relatively clear just now apart from "fogginess" and lethargy in the morning from the Mirt. It's preferable I feel.
I know I need a stable medicinal routine and will listen to what the psychiatrist has to say re that. Work wise I am worried sick but am keeping in with my Union Rep and informing my employer what is happening-that is all I can do for now.
This morning I felt myself sinking into that feeling of just wanting to stay in bed/house and never get back up again but read some Dorothy Rowe and thought of kids and got myself up and kept myself occupied, but it scares me that I might lose the will to fight this-I cannot do that. It WILL not beat me.
To Yvonne, Nick and everybody else thanks again and look after yourselves-I am still here-still fighting
Gordon
YvonneBelle
15-09-10, 00:30
Hi Gordon (and Nick),
I'm doing the same, posting on consecutive days! I'm up a bit late this evening as my body has been slowly getting more and more nocturnal. Unfortunately I've been struggling with mild insomnia and increased anxiety at night and subsequent late mornings. I'll come back to that...
Gordon - sounds like you've been through the mill a bit so we'd better have another :grouphug: for extra support! Can't hurt, can it?? :) I reckon you're doing just the right thing by following your gut instincts and keeping in touch with your doc and work. We each know ourselves better than anyone and everyone has a line. No matter how strong we feel we are in persisting I also believe there is a certain strength in being able to say 'this isn't working' and take another route; and I feel this applies to life in general... jobs, relationships, etc. as well as decisions about meds and how they make us feel.
In some respects I feel lucky in that Citalopram (aside from a couple of weeks of mild side effects) hit the nail on the head almost overnight in terms of lifting my mood and making me feel 'normal' again. However, on reflection (and as time has passed) I can see another side. At first I was almost 'trippy'... rejoicing in life, birds, trees... etc. but then as the meds have settled I've had the usual ups/downs, good days and bad days - but I have constantly struggled with getting to sleep and have little to no interest in sex (sorry to be blunt) and it's not like I'm in a relationship, but still... I'm aware that there is a part of me (the sexual, emotional side) that is 'missing' or feels blocked. Perhaps dulled is a better word. And in the scheme of things it's no biggie and at least I'm functioning okay but nevertheless I can't wait to get off meds and back to normal.
And then there's the anxiety. I'm sure this has increased lately in a wierd sort of way. There are probably underlying reasons (as you have suggested Nick) and yes there are money worries, putting heart and soul into flat, pressure to find another job, keeping up with doc and counselling... BUT, I have these wierd flashes where I come to harm by accident. Like opening a tin of paint and the chisel strikes me in the face... or some other 'imaginary accident'. This seems to happen a lot during that time when I'm trying to drop off to sleep. I'll suddenly get this thought and *flash* I'll get this image that makes me flinch and almost jump. And it happens as I'm walking about - I get struck by cars, attacked by thugs... all imagined and I can acknowledge it as 'just a thought' but still... it's unusual for me to think like that too often.
I had a counselling session today and mentioned this and whilst I'm not sure we pinpointed why... I was able to put it in better perspective and not worry about it too much.
But regarding sleep, she gave me a few pointers. Stick to a routine like glue... go to bed the same time and get up the same time (even if you don't feel like it). And try counting back from 100... and if you forget what number you're on or get lost in thought, start again from 100. This requires focus and should get boring. I must admit both suggestions are nothing new or ground-breaking and I was aware of them but haven't applied them lately. The simplest solutions are often the best so I will try establishing a pattern by setting the alarm and literally 'counting sheep' if all else fails!!
Also, I think it helps to take a bath and not use technology, watch TV or eat too late. I'm the worst for this. Not so much late TV but eating late and late laptop... yes, often guilty of that. A TV in the bedroom is apparently a bad idea (I don't have one in there anyway) and instead an absorbing book for an hour or so can make you sleepy.
For me, the worst thing is feeling Really Tired and not being able to drop off... and then, as happened the other morning, a bunch of blokes loudly removing scaffolding outside after only a few hours of sleep! :huh: (grrrrr)
Anyway, Nick - glad to hear you are at least coping with the mixed bag at work and more importantly, looking forward to button's arrival!
And Gordon, thanks for keeping us posted, keep fighting, and sorry that things have been very difficult for you lately trying to adjust to meds. I know that feeling of wanting to stay in bed and not leave the house and I almost slipped into that myself a couple of days ago with low energy but somehow picked up again. I think it's important to try and relax because even if we're not seemingly doing anything, we're not always relaxing properly and sometimes need a rest and a day off just to re-charge. You seem to like and relate to music - have you been listening to any lately? I know it's difficult when you're really low as I remember a time when I couldn't stand any noise... but if you can listen to music and enjoy it, it might help a bit? Just a thought!
Anyway (again) I'll leave it there and try and get some sleep!!
Yvonne :)
Hi
Just to let you know I'm still here.
Am having a tough time right now-beginning to withdraw into myself and put off seeing the kids again (to protect them as I see it in case I get upset BUT I know deep down it is doing no good for any of us if I don't see them regularly.) My ex has been really good about it all but I need to repay that by fighting my situation and CONFRONTING the things I am fearing-upsetting kids, being back at work.
The constant chopping and changing of meds recently has made things worse, plus being in the house on my own (though I still try to get out) has increased my feelings of "unreality" and isolation, making me more anxious too.
I will take my meds and hope I can get some strength to get through this-been lots of "better if I wasn't here" moments of late but I think of my kids and brother and know that's not the case-far better that I AM here and functioning again as a father and brother. That is my aim.
To Yvonne and Nick and all other contributors I hope you are doing well-I look back to the positivity I felt around July and know I can get that back.
Gordon
ElizabethJane
20-09-10, 19:11
Hi Gordon sorry you are feeling so low. If you can hang on with the medication I'm sure that it will begin to kick in and you will start to feel better. I have had more depressive episodes than I care to remember but one thing is clear. Even when I felt at my worst I managed to find that glimmer of hope that I would one day feel well again. It isn't in the realms of quick fixes. I think that determination has played a big role in this as well. I am a great believer in medication helping to make us feel well again. I have had times when I have been on loads of meds and the only answer has been more meds but those days thankfully are in the past. I have had long periods away from work (and been medically retired from one job) All I can say is don't throw your job away. It is a job afterall but please look after yourself so that one day when you are in a fit state to return to it or to leave it as the choice is yours. Fretting about whether you can return at the moment will do you no good. From the sound of yolur posts the short answer is that you can't. Let your doctor/psychiatrist decide. I am a great fan of psychiatrists as I have a brilliant one. If I could reveal who he is then I would. It has taken most of my forty nine years to find him though and I have had some grotty ones. When you go for the appointment take someone close to you with you as they will be able to speak on your behalf. I get all emotional speaking to psychiatrists and that does not always help. Take care Gordon and post as much as you like whilst you are going through such a difficult time. EJ.
Morning y'all
Gordon- sorry to hear things are still pretty tough. I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but you will start to feel better sooner rather than later. And I do agree with EJ- try not to work so much about work as you clearly need this time now to recover and get yourself back on your pegs. But I do know thats easier said than done. Again, I know its hard, but be a bit compansionate towards yourself at the moment- maybe don't fight too much (cos thats tiring in its own way) and just accept that you're doing all that you can at the moment to get better, which you are.
beginning to withdraw into myself and put off seeing the kids again (to protect them as I see it in case I get upset BUT I know deep down it is doing no good for any of us if I don't see them regularly.)
...and don't forget Gordon, they'll be missing seeing you as well. From what you've said in previous postings, you've got a fine couple of kids, which is partly down to some of the fine qualities thast you've instilled in them. And they do strike me as being particularly mature, so they'll want to support and help you. Guess all I'm saying is that maybe don't keep them at arms length for too long as they'll want to support and help their Dad, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Keep going mate- maybe try and disengage brain for a few hours today and do something that you enjoy or get pleasure from. You are worth it, and you're not alone.
Yvonne- I'll come back on your last posting in the next day or so- gotta rush off to work now (curses !)
Keep the faith guys.
Nick
....and good evening now !
Gordon- I'm hoping that you've had a good (or even OK) day today- your in my thoughts
Yvonne- just wanted to come back on your last thread, in particular:
but I have constantly struggled with getting to sleep and have little to no interest in sex
Tell me about it !! My sleeping habits are rubbish too- can be up 2-3 times in the night. And whilst I try not to consciously focus on it, I just know that my mind is going ten to the dozen whirring over the days events and all those negative thoughts. And as for libido, well yes, like you, my appetite has diminished since being on meds, although fortunately not that much as current events testify ! But seriously, I do not what you mean when you say 'dulled'.
BUT, I have these wierd flashes where I come to harm by accident
Hmmm- I wonder whats going on in that cerebral cortex of yours -did your counsellor have any thoughts or insights ? I wonder if its in someway a subconcious expression of a fear of the unknown, as you are embarking upon a new chapter in your life...? This might sound a bit mad, but the fact that its harm but accident (i.e. not intent) is somehow reassuring in that its not premediated or something that you're actively seeking to happen. Equally, maybe there isn't too much to it- I know that I certainly have more random thoughts when I'm feeling depressed\anxious, and a lot of them don't really have any connection to the real world, more a mechanism for my mind leting off steam....
I'm going to follow your advice on sleeping so lets compare notes in a week or so. Semi- random thought- I still enjoy your writing enormously- have you thought any more about putting pen to paper ?
Interesting that you mention seeing your Counsellor- I've being seeing mine every couple of weeks until yesterday, when she suggested that we might be coming to the end of our sessions as she felt that we were approaching the end of working together. And I now on one level (considering it was only a couple of months ago that I was rock bottom) that sounds pretty mad, but on another, I think she's right. I don't go to see her anymore looking for answers\fixes etc, I go more to use it as a space where I can air my thoughts without necessarily looking for approval or affirmation. So, I guess what I'm saying is, I feel quite comfortable about only seeing her a few more times as I don't need to see her in a way that I have in the past.
And on that note, its time for beddy-byes !
Take care
Nick
YvonneBelle
22-09-10, 10:37
Hmmm- I wonder whats going on in that cerebral cortex of yours...Haha, that made me smile! :D
On the one hand I can be very logical but on the other hand I have a very imaginative side. I've noticed that when I'm particularly down or depressed, logic and concentration seem to fly out of the window! I think this is when emotions are overwhelming. In a highly emotional state, humans do the strangest things... (like that professional woman I heard about recently who attempted to reach her lover by sliding down his chimney, causing her own demise!). That's an extreme example, but emotional takeovers can cause havoc. This happened with me. I had a massive emotional response due to something about work triggering (subconsciously) bad and unresolved work issues from the past. I can see this now, but also, the time was right to end that particular career path.
The counsellor didn't have any particular insights to the *flashes* and tried to determine what I was thinking about just before hand. Of course, I couldn't remember. She also asked how I reacted to them and I said I just flinched or jumped. It still happens. If I think about doing a job, I somehow invent something going wrong. Like last night I was imagining taking the tiles off around the bath and cleaning around the edges of the bath with a cloth. Except I then conjured a sharp blip and a severely cut finger resulting in a trip to hospital, instead of a nice clean bath ready for tiling! I simply don't know why this happens. Perhaps there's an element of self-sabotage going on? It can't be attention seeking because I really don't want anything like that to happen. Perhaps it's something to do with fear... that I'm attempting all of these DIY jobs but I don't really know what I'm doing. So taking the tiles off the bath is going to cause damage that needs to be repaired and I need to do it. I don't know if there are any hidden sharp edges but I will be checking!
I wonder if its in someway a subconcious expression of a fear of the unknown, as you are embarking upon a new chapter in your life...?Yes, I do think it's that more than anything. Spot on!
and a lot of them don't really have any connection to the real world, more a mechanism for my mind leting off steam....I like that idea. If I get my cut finger 'out of the way' in my imagination then it will feel much more rewarding when I do get the tiles off and replace them without a hitch! On that note, a workman came to visit and remarked on a few aspects of the flat that should really have been completed before I moved in. He said 'x and y should have been done, I'll tell my gaffa, OMG that's poor' and other such comments. I think he felt a bit sorry for me and suggested I contact the housing association on a number of issues, such as the state of the flooring in the kitchen & bathroom. Happily, he did a great job with some skirting replacement and promised me a box of tiles. Unless the existing tiles are broken they won't be replaced by the HA... but he said there was no harm if I wanted to replace them myself and offered to bring me the stuff to do it (which, stricly speaking, he should't be doing but I was grateful for the help!).
On another positive note, I'm due a new kitchen within the next 12 months. It would have been done last year but apparently government funding dried up (what a surprise).
Sleep - is improving!!! Earlier to bed and get up when you wake up is my new motto. Counting backwards from 100 does work. As soon as you trip up, back to 100. It soon gets boring and you lose your place because... you are asleep! lol
I'm the same as you with the counsellor. More than anything, I just want someone independent with clever questioning skills to let off steam to! I'll probably have one or two more sessions and that will be my lot but it has been beneficial.
I hope and trust that Gordon is reading all of this. I know you're having a tough time right now and I often think and wonder how you're doing.
Life is such a struggle sometimes but I stick to my favourite thought when times are bad. Life is very transitory and very much like a wheel of fortune. There are ups and downs, which we all know about. I sometimes think how we are affected by this depends on how centred and balanced we are. In effect the closer we are to the centre of the wheel the less affected we are by it's constant motion. On the outer edges we feel sick on the way up and sick on the way down, rarely finding a point that's comfortable because the change is constantly scary. Whereas if we are closer to the middle, change goes on around us and we are part of change but the highs and the lows are much less extreme.
On that note, I'm working on being more centred and grounded. This involves balance in all respects. Not too much or little food, not too much or too little sleep. Perhaps I should call myself Goldilocks instead!!! lol But I think there is a lot of truth in the old saying 'everything in moderation'. Perhaps that is the part within our control. When things happen out of our control, that's when they become scary. But if we are already centred and grounded with most things in perspective then the BIG things that sometimes occur unexpectedly become easier to handle. Rather than feeling beyond our capability or out of our control we can simply go with the flow and see what happens.
To an extent that's what I'm doing now. I had no idea what state the flat would be in or whether I could do anything about it. As it turns out it was poor but not terrible. Lack of care and respect. With a bit of help, I'm slowly but surely turning it around and winning a few compliments from the workmen that have occasionally visited to carry out repairs that I can't do. I'm finding that because I'm making the effort, I'm being rewarded with tips and a few extra bits and bobs that they've got spare. I think that's how it works. You make the effort and that shows others that you are willing to try and in turn that triggers others to help you.
Like this thread. "Is this recovery? DARE I hope?" The title attracted us because it was a cautiously positive thought and we all wanted to fan the flame. Hope is such a wonderful thing. It keeps us all alive and kicking!
Hang on in their Gordon. We're all on your side. :)
Best wishes,
Yvonne :)
Just wanted to say I really enjoyed reading your latest posting Yvonne- you really do have a way with words that so pleasurable to read. And keep up the centring and grounding- makes perfect sense to me !
And like Yvonne, you're very much in my thoughts Gordon- keep on keeping on !
Right, shower and worktime !
Take care
Nick
YvonneBelle
24-09-10, 10:00
Thanks Nick,
I meant to respond to your previous comments about writing but I guess I'm still not very good at accepting compliments! However, it does give me a boost, so thank you! :)
I find writing to be quite therapeutic but I have to be in the mood; hence my long posts! It's almost as if I go into some sort of trance and out pops a stream of consciousness.
Hope work is going well and T-button must only be a few weeks away now?
I'm getting braver with the DIY - tiling. It's not that the existing tiles are broken but more the case that the person who fitted them (if they can call themseves a tradesman) should be ashamed. I think a five year old could have done a better job! Hopefully (even with my limited experience) I can do something reasonable with them. If nothing else I have a 'good eye' (or perhaps this is the Virgo in me - perfectionistic tendencies?!).
So... I've bought some plain white tiles and plan to debunk the myth that I may injure myself whilst replacing them! :D
Hope everyone is okay, especially you Gordon. :hugs:
Its being a couple of weeks since Gordon posted, so I really hope your OK fella. I do wonder from time to time how things are with you, so it would be good if maybe you could post to let us know how you are - I do miss you dry sense of humour !
So Yvonne, another week, more DIY projects completed ??! How did the tiling go ? Must admit, I quite enjoy tiling- something about the geometry and precision that appeals to me. And, having discovered the joys of a machine tile cutter, it all become a whole lot easier ! Anyway, hope the place continues to shape up, and that you're still feeling positive about things and the future.
A lot has changed since Gordon started this post. When I first joined in, I was probably at the 2nd lowest point in my life- everything seemed lost and hopeless. And I just couldn't see how I could be a good father. Now, it seems like a very, very , very long time ago that I felt like that- much more than a couple of months ago. And whilst I wouldn't say that all is rosy in the garden of Nick, I do feel that I'm in a good place and able to cope with what ever life brings, which will hopefully be a son or daughter in a few weeks time !
Can't wait for the button to arrive now- its quite incredible the way that the baby now monkeys around in Anna's tummy. I'm sure I've felt his\hers bum a couple of times ! Work is still work. On the one hand, I'm slowly getting more into the rhythm of it, and can feel my confidence returning. On the other, I can feel that desire to please and doubts about my abilities swimming around my subconcious. But all in all, I think I'm doing OK- what really helps is just giving myself time in a way I've never done before- accepting that I am where I am, and that it might take time to get to where I want to be.
Anyway, enough of me- really hope you're both doing well.
Nick
Hi
I'm still here. It looks as if I might have IBS-waiting for blood tests from my GP on Tuesday. Really low just now but hanging in there.
If anybody has any POSITIVE experiences of dealing with IBS I'd be grateful.
Not definite it is that but could be.
I am thinking of all of you too, espec Yvonne and Nick
Gordon
ElizabethJane
03-10-10, 18:17
Hi Gordon I'm sorry that you are feeling low. I have just had blood tests to eliminate me from various bowel diseases. I get the results back on Tuesday. I have had hypnosis for my IBS in the past which has helped. I have also been on an exclusion diet (wheat) made me miserable but did help. It might be helpful for you to write down if you have a bad episode what foods might trigger it. I have bowel cancer in the family so I will probably have to have another colonoscopy (on hubs medical insurance). I also have blood in my stools which probably means the return of my fissure and or piles. Happy days but I try not to let it get me down. Dear Gordon I'm sorry that you are not feeling too well at the moment. Love from EJ.
Thanks EJ
I'm not good with this sort of thing-typical male-but I will face it and do what I have to do to get life back on track.
Your support is appreciated as always
Gordon
YvonneBelle
03-10-10, 20:54
Hi Peeps,
Gordon - great to see you posting again! :) Like EJ I've heard that hypnotherapy can be really good for IBS. I saw a woman on Embarrassing Bodies (Channel 4) that claimed it really improved her situation. If you don't have IBS it might be that your new meds are disturbing your gut in some way. Since taking Citalopram I seem to have less tolerance to cheese, which might apply to dairy products as a group. My stomach rumbles and growls angrily if I eat too much dairy... so would agree keeping a note of what you eat could help you identify what's setting off your symptoms. In any case, I hope you get to find out one way or the other soon and that you start to feel much better soon.
Nick - can't wait to hear whether button is a boy or a girl! Not long now... (exciting)!! I think you are right to say 'work is work'. It's true in a way and I'm glad to hear that you are giving yourself plenty of time to get back on form.
In essence I'm doing the same. Despite the need to move in soon (take the leap so to speak) and despite the need to be searching for work, quite frankly I'm working steadily at my own pace. It has taken weeks, in fact months, to strip wallpaper, fill damaged walls, hang paper, paint, scrape radiator pipes, remove old tiles... etc. and the work is ongoing. Added to the list is that a bout of heavy rain and strong winds has revealed that not all of my windows are exactly water-tight... (one for the housing association to resolve, asap!).
However, I'm really beginning to see the wood for the trees now and as each day passes yet more fiddly jobs (and larger ones) get done. I'm about to start on the bathroom properly having been delayed by unexpected tiling, a new bath panel and some replacement skirting board. Also, my painful shoulder (it gets sore and inflamed from time to time) has begun to flare up but not from too much PC for a change! Instead, it's all the reaching, scrubbing and chiselling that's caused it. I must admit though I have really enjoyed all aspects of decorating so far... even the really grotty jobs. And I agree, tiling requires a certain amount of precision that I enjoy... along with wallpaper hanging.
As soon as the bathroom has been returned to working order, I'll be moving in. Thank goodness I've been able to stay at my sister's flat while this has been happening! The new flat is so small it would have been a nightmare trying to work around my furniture. And size is deceptive. You would think that a small flat is easy to decorate. Uh uhh. Nope! This small mongrel of a flat has taken some taming but is now showing clear signs of grooming. :D
I'm continuing with the counselling and actually produced some tears for the first time in ages last week. Citalopram has been doing a good job at keeping them in check but my counsellor hit on an extremely prickly nerve last time and so a few tears were shed but I'm still enjoying getting things off my chest and out of my system.
Hope things continue to improve for everyone - what a journey!
Yvonne
ElizabethJane
03-10-10, 20:54
Let us know how you get on with the results of your blood tests. Recovery from depression will always take time. With me it has often resulted in total shut down then a slow re-emergence rather like a butterfly from a crysalis. Try not to isolate yourself from family and friends and listen to some good music. CRY if you can. I'm learning some new music at the moment in preparation for Remembrance Sunday and Christmas. I have also sung at a wedding today (or tried as I have a fearsome cough and cold) I'm also trying to learn some music for an evensong in a few weeks. The Church a small village church has a spectacular tudor roof. I also have to go for a flu jab next week as I am asthmatic but I wonder whether they will do it with my cough. You can always PM if necessary. Take Care and be kind to yourself. EJ.
boblepeche
05-10-10, 22:53
Let us know how you get on with the results of your blood tests. Recovery from depression will always take time. With me it has often resulted in total shut down then a slow re-emergence rather like a butterfly from a crysalis. Try not to isolate yourself from family and friends and listen to some good music. CRY if you can. I'm learning some new music at the moment in preparation for Remembrance Sunday and Christmas. I have also sung at a wedding today (or tried as I have a fearsome cough and cold) I'm also trying to learn some music for an evensong in a few weeks. The Church a small village church has a spectacular tudor roof. I also have to go for a flu jab next week as I am asthmatic but I wonder whether they will do it with my cough. You can always PM if necessary. Take Care and be kind to yourself. EJ.
Good advice there. I struggle with isolation when Im not so good. Its very cruel, but when your down you dont want to see anyone, and when you dont see anyone you feel down. Its catch 22 and breaking it is one of the most difficult things I have ever experienced in my whole life.
Well would you believe that Ive just returned from a month of travelling (mostly alone) around europe. It seems to have done me good. Im back to work, although only part time. Ive refound my love of music too. Listening to a lot of sad songs, but strangely they cheer me up. Everybody hurts by REM really means something to me now. Once it was just a song, but now I know where its coming from. Everybody here must remember that they are not alone, we all care about you.
ElizabethJane
12-10-10, 17:50
Hi Gordon. I hope that you don't think I am being rude but I was just wondering how you are? EJ.
Hi There.WELL DONE YOU.Have you read this book called "Feel The Fear and do it Anyway" I think that was the title. Can't remamber the auther. Its a long time since I have read it but your post brought it back home to me and I will be trying to get it again.
All the best
Hi EJ (and others)
Things aren't good just now. I have lost massive amount of weight plus my body has just "switched off"- ibs plus other things.
Am scared because don't know what is happening-on Sertralene but not helping.
Have meeting with work on Wed but realistically it doesn't look good.
Just feel physical health has plummetted in past month.
Frightened-not been seeing the kids so much either because of how I am.
Gordon
Hi Gordon, really sorry to hear that :hugs:
When did you last see your doc? x
Seeing him tonight Jane.
Gordon
Glad to hear it, you don't sound at all well (if you don't mind me saying so). Hope you get some help x
I'm not well Jane-just past two months anxiety and stress and now physically.
Really worried because I want to see my kids growing up and be an active father again.
Gordon
Totally understand that Gordon. I'm having a bit of a blip myself and already feel like a useless mum. I'm sure your kids understand tho, and just want you well. Don't hold anything back from the doc xx
ElizabethJane
14-10-10, 15:16
Hi Gordon thanks for replying. It sounds like you are suffering from severe depression that needs tackling. I understand the 'shutting down' feeling that you describe only too well. When I was very ill with depression I thought that my insides were rotting and that I was disappearing or shrinking inside. No doubt your physical health is suffering because you are not eating properly. I know that it might not be a very fashionable thing to say and I don't know what the psychiatric provision is in Scotland but you might be needing some in-patient care? If is is availabe it might be what you need as they would be able to stabilise your drugs and perhaps start some therapy/ get you eating properly again? I hope that you are not offended by my suggestion but your post has alarm bells ringing for me. If you can let us know how you get on at the doctors. EJ.
Hi EJ
Saw my GP-I am going to get a psychiatrist at some point-I feel a little bit as if docs just say re anxiety take the diazepam but I am on so many tablets just now, my mouth is dry with them not pleasant during the day.
Interesting what you say in your post-my insides feel like they are rotting away too-yet I keep being assured that my tests are fine. I just feel my immune system must be really low just now.
Am scared I admit-can't do much about work except keep them informed but my health is more important.
Thanks again
Gordon
ElizabethJane
14-10-10, 17:46
I think that the 'rotton insides' is a reflection of the depression ie thinking that everthing is bad/no good/ hopeless. I always think of the Stones 'Paint it Black' because it says it all for me. Whether it is about depression I don't know? Dear Gordon I hope that you are getting the support that you need at the moment? Do you have friend who could come round and be with you for a while or tidy up/ go shopping for you? I expect those tasks feel overwhelming. I used to sleep a lot when I was very depressed or just lie in bed. If you are doing that try to walk around a bit and go outside listen to some music. I used to listen to a lot of organ music (because someone I knew had lent me a tape (shows you how long ago it was) I remember my N putting 'Black Tie White Noise' on my cassette too Also 'Tori Amos' first album.. I have an ipod now. Talk to people. I dont think people on here will ever get bored. EJ.
YvonneBelle
14-10-10, 23:42
Hi Gordon,
I still keep an eye on this thread and like others here I'm worried and concerned to hear that you have lost weight and are having such a rough time. Poor you!! (((hugs)))
You sound like you are having a heck of a time, goodness me - my heart goes out to you.
Is anyone helping you at all in a practical sense? Do you have low appetite or are you just not cooking for yourself? Or is what you eat setting off the IBS?
I remember you saying there was a mental health centre near you that you wanted to volunteer at. Might they be able to help you at this time I wonder? I'm just concerned that your GP is limited to what he can do other than prescribe your meds; whereas it sounds to me like you might be in need of more practical support. Are you able to self-refer there?
I hope things settle down (meds-wise) and that you can turn a corner again to better times.
Sending you my best wishes,
Yvonne
Hi
What really hurts is I have done this to myself-I have everything in life I could want-now it looks like job is going and I haven't been seeing my kids.
I am really angry with myself now-I do feel I need help with the IBS because I don't have a clue diet wise and GP just says to take laxatives:blush:. I am scared now because my physical health isn't good and that has never been the case before.
I really hate myself for what I have done to myself and my family.
Gordon
Folks I'm sorry for the downbeat nature of recent posts-it's a scary time for me.
I do believe I am a good dad-just when I'm not seeing them I feel so guilty.
I am ill but want to get through this-as for work what will be will be.
Thanks for all your kind wishes.
Gordon
Gordon
Really pleased that you're posting again, although like the others, I'm sorry that you'e having such a tough time of it. And I am concerned that you're not cutting yourself much slack at the moment. Plse try to be kind and patient with yourself- I certainly don't think you've done anything to yourself in a conscious, pre-meditated way. Like Yvonne, I hope your able to get some practical help, and are seeing friends, playing footy, going for walks etc.
I'm pleased to see in your last post that your putting work to the back of your mind at the moment- it will sort itself in thr fulness of time. But right here, right now, you just need to focus on getting yourself feeling physically and mentally better. Everything else will fall into place- I'm sure of it.
Yvonne- how are you doing ? Is the DIY almost complete ? Surely they can't be any rooms left to make over ??! Hope you're sleeping a bit better and that things are shaping up job wise.
Only 6 days until I'm due to become a Dad ! All very exciting and quite bewildering at the same time. Main thing is that Anna and the button are doing fine, so hopefully we'll have a new member of the family sooner rather than later.....
Take care all
Nick
Gordon and Yvonne: I really really hope things are going well for you both. I hope Gordon that you're back on an upward curve and are being a bit kinder to yourself than in your last posting. I do miss your dry, laconic wit. And Yvonne, the pad must be finished by now, surely ??! If so, I hope its bringing you the pleasure you richly deserve, as you put your heart and soul into it.
I guess the fact that no one has posted for a while suggests this thread may have run its course, in which case here's a high note to end on (or not as the case maybe). Charles Anthony Tennant was born last saturday (23rd) and both Charlie and mom are doing splendidly ! I could write at length about his many wonderous qualities (!) but suffice to say he's perfect, and both Anna and myself are deeply smitten. So, I'm currently on paternity leave and am progressing steadily (albeit slowly) up the parenting learning curve- reckon by the time he's 18 I'll have nailed it !
So there you go, some :yesyes: news ! Best wishes to you both. Nick
ElizabethJane
03-11-10, 22:16
Congratulations Nic that is truely wonderful news that your new baby has finally arrived. Very best wishes to you and your family. As far as this thread is concerned I will post but only if Gordon wants it as it was his post originally. As he hasn't posted for a while I was fearing that he might have gone to ground for a while to try to get himself better? EJ.
YvonneBelle
12-11-10, 00:12
Charles Anthony Tennant was born last saturday (23rd) and both Charlie and mom are doing splendidly !Congratulations Nick!!! :yesyes:
It's been a while since I posted because I was off line for a while. I knew button must be here and I'm so pleased to hear that things are going well!
I've moved into the flat and yes, it's pretty much there now, so just a case of settling in. I still don't have any flooring but it's amazing how you can get by with a few rugs! lol
Hope Gordon is doing okay. As you say, perhaps this thread has run it's course for now but I will check back every so often. I'm doing much better hence I'm not posting as often but I'm still out of work. Saying that, I'm busy every day either looking for work or doing something connected to the flat, finances, GP visits, continued counselling... etc. so it's all go.
I'm assuming your paternity leave may be coming to an end but I hope you have enjoyed every second so far. :)
I may pick up my own thread again soon (just to keep track of progress) but for now I'll sign off with best wishes to everyone reading.
Yvonne
Well done YvonneBelle and best wishes in your new home :hugs:
ElizabethJane
12-11-10, 17:58
:hugs::hugs:I'm still hoping that Gordon will come back online. I'm not sure whether to send him a PM? It does not matter Gordon if you are not so good at the moment? We are always here to listen to you. You have not let anybody down by becoming ill least of all to the people on here. Big hug. EJ.
Elisabeth Jane: I think sending Gordon PM just to let him know that he's still very much in our minds is a grea idea. I'd love to hear from him and hope that he's being kind to himself, irrespective of whether he's feeling better or still having a tough time.
Yvonne: thats great news that you've now officially moved in ! And who needs flooring anyway !! Really pleased to hear that all your hard work has paid off, and that you're enjoying the fruits of your labour :yesyes: ! I'd love to hear what you're thinking in terms of jobs- still think you'd make a great pulitzer prize-winning novelist !
You are right- I'm back to work tomorrow- boo hiss ! Getting to know Charlie has been a wonderful rollercoaster- lots of highs with a couple of lows when mummy and daddy have failed to meet his exacting requirements ! But, we're still enraptured by him, and I think Charlie is begining to enjoy living with us. For me, the big challenge has being learning to accept that you have to do things at a different (Charlie) pace. Whilst I intellectually knew life would be like this, I have found it difficult on occasion when I've wanted to get something done but have had to stop to attend to Charlie. That said, I think I'm learning to go with the flow a bit more, and am trying to support Anna as best I can on the feeding and nappy changing duties. So, overall, life is very sweet, and I feel very blessed to have such a lovely bundle of joy :yahoo:And Anna's pretty special too !
I'll keep checking in from time to see how you and Gordon (hopefully) are doing.
Take care
Nick
YvonneBelle
20-11-10, 00:07
Thanks missy for your good wishes and ElizabethJane... good idea to try a PM. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to let us know if you get a reply? Then again, perhaps Gordon isn't checking in. It might be that he doesn't want to share his experience at this stage, which is fine. Sometimes it's when you begin to feel better that you begin to reflect and feel more like sharing and working things through. Whilst going through the mire (so to speak) it is very hard to get enthusiastic about anything, so perhaps a little time and space will see our Gordon back into the fold? :)
Nick - ah how the time has flown! What you said about doing things at 'Charlie speed' made me smile. It reminded me of something someone once said about walking at 'toddler speed' and how it opened their eyes to their environment. 'Look mummy, a bird..' All the little observations and pit stops a child makes should ideally be enjoyed but all too often I hear complaints from parents that they somehow blinked and missed it, so my advice to you would to definately Go with the Flow as much as is practical and just enjoy it!! Some things can wait longer than you might think (especially washing up and tidying) so go ahead and have a messy house for a while! We are so geared up (at work) to get things done that it sort of gets built in to our psyche. Even though I've been at home I've rarely given myself a break, even though there is nobody supervising me. I just have a built in work ethic and so I find it very hard to work at a slower pace or have a lazy day. But it was so lovely spending time with my sis yesterday just drinking tea and playing with her new kitten! It made me realise that times like that are special and should just be enjoyed for the moment. Watching the kitten engage in combat with the laces on my trainers was really cute and then she 'attacked' an empty kitchen roll tube... much to our amusement! She is so sweet with tiny teeth (ow) tiny ears, tiny paws and... you just can't help but watch her explore new things!
Such simple pleasures, but very important I feel... so I'm sure you'll soon get the hang of working at a different pace at home! I remember looking at the shoulder of a male colleague dressed very smartly in a suit with rusk dribble down the back and finding it quite endearing... :winks:
As for work, hmmm, I'm still thinking about that one. My ideal would be a combination of complementary therapies and writing but there are probably a few stepping stones from here to there. I'm half way through a set of questions that should help me to decide which career path to take and change is a daunting prospect but also quite exciting. Settling into the flat has made a big difference to how I feel. I feel in a much better place to move forwards and it might be that I'll do some voluntary work, or work just to get some money coming in. However, I think it's more likely that Christmas will somehow roll by... and then the job search will truly begin!
Best of luck with nappies and cuddles - and try to savour it all. It will be lovely having a baby in the house at Christmas with all the cards and pressies (although I'm sure the paper and lights will be the most interesting things to Charlie this year!)... lol
Folks
I am sorry I haven't been in touch for some time.
Firstly congrats to Nick-delighted to hear your news.
I have been through a real "downer" the past few months which I'd rather not dwell on and it caused me to withdraw from everybody including my kids which I'm not proud of.
I guess I kind of had a breakdown but have started to slowly see the kids again and am back working on a phased return basis. It isn't easy and don't know how I'll get on but wanted you all to know I'm ok and thinking of you.
Gordon
ElizabethJane
19-01-11, 16:46
:hugs::hugs:Hi stranger. Sorry you have had such a rough time. I really glad that you have come back. Take your time we are still here for you. EJ.
Thanks EJ
Assuming I progress and don't hit a slump again I plan to pop in from time to time. Am on 30mg Mirtazapine just now but still feel really down especially in the morning.
I feel I have really let my children down by not seeing them when I was at my worst though am trying to pick that up slowly. I just didn't want them to see their dad in a bad way. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I maybe at times should have tried harder.
It is difficult getting back to work as it would be so easy to just sit and mope but I know that isn't the answer. I still have worries and anxieties like most of us on this site but I am trying to (forgive the cliche) take one day at a time just now.
All the best to you and Yvonne and Nick too if they happen across this.
Gordon
ElizabethJane
20-01-11, 21:46
Hi Gordon I am on mirtazapine too. How many hours a week are you working now? Your children will forgive you and you will welcome being with them again. It is early stages again in your recovery from depression. As I said before we are all still here for you. EJ.
Good to hear from you Gordon. Sorry things haven't been good but it sounds as if they are improving? :hugs:
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