rapid heart rate

[jothenurse]

I decided to post this here, also, as no one seems to have any advice. I have had EKG's and I pretty much have convinced myself that my heart must be ok - but with any little exertion, my heart starts pounding or after I eat. I was down by my Mom's tonight - she is very ill - had to give her morphine and when I was cleaning her up some (bending over a little and I had cleaned the bathroom a little), my heart started to pound. Just like the good ole tachycardia bouts I was having before and they are back. But, couldn't leave her because of her breathing/coughing. I thought I could take my ativan, but by the time I got done giving her some morphine, upping her oxygen and giving her a nebulizer, I noticed my heart wasn't pounding any more. What is going on? Does my pulse go up (because of my weight loss and not exercising for so long) and then I get scared and I start pounding? If I ignore it, it comes back down.
I am really frustrated with this. Anyone have any answers? I have been to the ER several times in the past and my EKG's have always been normal - just a rapid pulse that they say are due to panic attacks. Before all of this panic, I used to exercise and run and lift weights. Now I am afraid everytime my pulse starts going up a little, so it has been months since I have exercised, except for walks. I have lost a lot of weight during this.

[dodo]

Mine does the same. A little exertion and it pounds, after I've eaten it pounds. Just one beer and it pounds. I'm worried though my ECG was also clear.

[jothenurse]

Does anything seem to help?

[nomorepanic]

People did reply to your other post.

Why not ask RLR on his forum about this as he is the expert.

In my personal opinion you need to exercise more and ignore the pounding - I think we all get it from time to time.

If it helps I have just been told I have a weak and enlarged heart and told to exercise as much as I can so it shows that the heart can take more than you think and it will help!

[playman44]

i get this its a real pain ,i think we feel our hearts beating a bit faster and then the panic sets in ,but if you think about it your heart needs to move off resting rate when you do anything ,so its only natural for our heart rates to increase and get stronger its completely natural,i think its just the damb anxiety showing its ugly head ,take care

[jothenurse]

Thank you for your replies.

[RLR]

Well, this issue has indeed been brought forward on the heart palpitations forum and was addressed, although apparently not to a sufficient degree.

If you feel that your symptoms are still perplexing you, I will be glad to continue discussing it with you but as I said originally, you seem to be extremely vigilent to your heart's performance and function with the notion that any change is thought to constitute a problem. As stated, the heart and its functions among one's general physiology is extremely dynamic and changes constantly to meet the various demands being placed on it.

You generally seem to feel that your heart rate and performance should remain static in response to even mild exertion. This is not the case, particularly where physical conditioning is low and regular challenge to stamina does not occur.

As I said, I'll be glad to discuss the matter further, but based upon what I've observed in your posting, your description does not even remotely suggest evidence of a problem.

Best regards,

Rutheford Rane, MD (ret.)

[Going home]

To Dr.Rane..herein lies the nature of health anxiety in all its glory! We who suffer particularly with heart anxieties are never reassured, not even by the best cardiologists....we have test after test and are still not convinced. It has something to do with the fact that our hearts are the very life of us and it is supposed to go on beating and keeping us alive quietly, we don't like it to perform noisily as in tachicardia or inefficiently as in ectopic beats and flutters. The thing with doctors of the heart is that although they are very interested in the workings of the heart, most of them don't actually know how it feels to have an interrupted heartbeat that's usually pronounced benign by them, but that we suffer with, unexplained sometimes for many years. Its uncomfortable and scary so please try to understand and never judge the sufferers.

Best regards
Anna...a sufferer for many years :)

[*clare*]

Couldn't have put it better myself :)

[RLR]

I'm not being judmental of anyone and you misunderstand my post. As a physician for more than 40 years and host of a forum that specifically deals with heart palpitations and anxiety, I know all too well what patients are dealing with from both an emotional and physical perspective.

I have addressed the person who made the original post many times on my own forum and my point was that there is no portal where information will suddenly reveal the hidden pathology that she so fervently believes to be present. Until persons who suffer with this problem realize that it has absolutely nothing to do with any type of underlying physical disease, they will continue to rush to the ER or doctor's office in search of this elusive physical cause that in actuality does not exist.

The symptoms themselves are all too real, but that does not suggest that the cause is physical. Patients become frightened that the disturbance is in actuality a sign that the heart is experiencing difficulty or that it produces an overwhelming unpredictability that the heart may suddenly stop, placing them in a constant state of helplessness as they try to anticipate when this moment will arise.

Again, I understand the plight of persons suffering with benign palpitations all too well, so much so that I dedicate a large portion of my personal time in addressing their questions on a forum that I placed online to offer assistance.

I judge sufferers by pointing out the persistent errors in thinking that they commonly express and bring these people forward to directly confront the actual underlying problem rather than permit them to merely seek reassurance from point to point as they struggle with an altered lifestyle manifested by fear generated by irrational thought patterns.

The condition often goes "unexplained" because sufferers refuse to wander from the premise that a physical problem is to blame. They seek a resolution from their doctors and become increasingly frustrated that the cause is not located or remains elusive.

Sometimes even with a brand new pair of glasses, people remain blind.

In closing, I've very often encountered an advant gaurd which encircles this forum, drawing inference and conclusions in the absence of facts.

Best regards,

Rutheford Rane, MD (ret.)

[Going home]

Rutherford, thank you for your reply and for your explanation, but you see you are giving it from the doctors point of view which was in fact my point entirely :) Don't get me wrong, we heart anxies love it that you are around, but its takes alot for us to actually believe what you're telling us...we want to believe it very much but after so many years we find it very difficult...we try. Then the doctors become frustrated with us and then angry and give up on us, and so we are left with just each other. Its not an existence we choose, its only half a life and who would choose that? Its not our hearts that need fixing we know really, its our spirit..but who can do that?

Thanks once again
Anna

[RLR]

You very much unwittingly "choose" such an existence and it's revealed very plainly in your response. You are choosing half of a life because of your perceptions and beliefs which you refuse to examine and alter. The fact that you are unable to identify any method for changing your spirit is proof that you are resigned to your present dilemma and exhausted by the absence of relief it offers.

What is it exactly that you want so much to believe but after so many years, find it difficult? If it's the premise that regardless of how much you present yourself to your doctor for answers, they persistently have nothing to offer then I'm here to tell you that such a premise clearly illuminates my point very graphically. It is analogous to repeatedly taking your malfunctioning clock to the florist and finding that they are unable to solve the problem, essentially offering you no resolution despite your perserverence for many years. The definition of insanity has been quoted as approaching a problem in the same manner repeatedly and yet expecting a different outcome.

You can take the issue of benign heart palpitations to your doctor for eternity and they will not cure it nor find some elusive disease or disorder responsible. People continue to drop everything and make a mad dash for the ER during a troublesome run of such palpitations, only to find that they are once again hidden from detection or subsequent resolution provided by the medical team. I spent my fair share of an early career as an ER physician and I know all too well the expressions of horror and panic that these patients demonstrate. For them, it is all too real and I have never been one to disregard their position.

What drives me to create and host the heart palpitations forum is that these sufferers need to be courted in a direction toward the actual underlying cause for the disorder and for every occasion that they resist turn to old habits, I press more firmly to steer them otherwise.

Doctors give up on your because you refuse to to alter your patterns and remain firm and rigid in your own beliefs and interpretations concerning anxiety and the physiological manifestations which accompany the disorder. Doctors can no more relieve the symptoms on any subsequent occasion than they could on the original presentation.

So I recant patterns that you are likely all too familiar with and admit, but feel powerless to change. The florist cannot fix your clock, nor rescue it should it appear as though it's going to stop ticking. As such, the absence of actual cardiopathology leaves doctors with little to do except once again tell you that you're okay. They're certainly not going to intervene with life-saving measures where none are required.

So how is it that persons can know deep down that there's something adrift with their beliefs and yet be powerless to stop commiting the same violations in thought patterns and actions which rob them of the other half of their life? How can an incident, known by all medical facts to be entirely harmless, nevertheless invoke fear of one's life?

Could it have something to do with the fact that some unidentifiable and compelling process forces folks suffering from health anxiety to unavoidably check just to be sure, that the next occasion they choose to ignore will be the very lightning strike which confirms their suspicions all along? Could it be that the actual underlying cause for palpitations and other misunderstood physical symptoms has been present for many years and long before the arrival of circumstances which have led them to a point in their lives that seems foreign?

There are many examples on the forum I host wherein people have resisted to all possible levels, finally yielding and taking the initiative to move forward with their lives. Indeed, they are back to work, play, exercise and whatever extent of a social life they care to engage in and it's not a matter of my imparting the change in them, but rather leaving them with no other alternative.

I understand far more about the underpinnings of somatoform than you may realize and I don't spend my limited time at my advanced age on a cause that would have no purposeful outcome. I don't bandy words and as anyone on my forum will readily tell you, sometimes it hurts, sometimes it frustrates and sometimes it even angers them but in all cases it promotes insight that ultimately leads to resolution. I hold little regard for folks who look past the actual intent and purpose of my discourse to draw scrutiny of my mannerisms, as though I'm to be tutored in the art of expression and social acquiescence to some higher plane. I'm not here for tea and biscuits.

If you don't like what I have to say, then by all means don't partake of it but I'm entirely disinterested in perfoming in someone's circus event.

If you wish to be free of your palpitations and other troublesome features of anxiety, then I'll devote whatever portion of my time necessary to see that you achieve that goal. What I won't be party to, however, is the rebuff that constantly seeks out my postings. Again, and I'm not directing this comment to anyone in particular, but if you care little for my position on such matters then your time is better spent portending your own approach than attempting to correct mine.

http://palps.chemicalforums.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl

Best regards,

Rutheford Rane, MD, (ret.)

[Going home]

Dr. Rane,

On the contrary, you seemingly offer no solution to people such as myself and many others here and that is why we are here, because we cannot believe what we are being told by the experts and this is part of our 'illness'...we can only comfort each other with the knowledge that we are not alone in our fears and this can promote recovery where orthodox treatment often doesn't i'm afraid. If recovery was as simple as you seem to think then psychiatric hospitals would be empty of patients. Maybe you will allow yourself to 'get it' eventually. Because you only really make sense to people who have had experience of 'real' heart problems, not the people who are mentally waiting for the real stuff to happen. You are a doctor of medicine who treats people with medical problems and this is so far removed from doctors who deal with people who have so called 'imaginary' health problems.

Anna

[MarlaJ]

Hi Jo, I know exactly what you are talking about! The great thing about anxiety is that it is completely reliable, and ready to go at a moments notice! Even when you think it is being quiet, something disturbing, like anything noticeable in your heart, brings the ugly little beast right to the surface. Once anxiety rears its head, the racing heart really takes off. What a vicious cycle, it could really drive a person mental!

I notice that you said that you have lost weight, although you are not exercising as much...... are you getting enough to eat?

I too have had weird heart stuff over the years, and have also been "reassured" that it is nothing to worry over.(LOL) It really kicked up again recently after starting a new course of Cipralex. Talked to doc and told him all the side effects that I was experiencing - one of which was ZERO appetite & nausea. Food has not been good for days. He suggested that I start sipping on Boost through the day until I can start eating properly again. Thought that maybe rapid pulse could be part of not getting enough nutrition in a day.

The stuff is nasty, but it certainly has helped me some. Hope it helps!

Good luck and let us know if you find anything else that helps.

Marla

[jothenurse]

I didn't think my post would bring on so much discussion. And it is true that RLR has helped me a lot in being reassured about my tachycardia. It is not that I don't believe RLR or my Nurse Practitioner that I am seeing that there is nothing wrong with my heart. I am just trying to desperately deal with the physical manifestations that the anxiety/panic I have has brought on. I have worked very hard on calming myself during these episodes, which has been more frequent lately. I am working full time as a director of nursing and I am also dealing with this panic disorder, along with my mother starting hospice tomorrow. I have made some progress. I do not automatically go to the ER when I have tachycardia. It has been a couple of months since that has happened. I have been trying to just let my heart race, and distract myself and hope that the pulse comes down. I have the ativan to help if needed. I appreciate everyone's help in this - I was just trying to find other ways to cope with it. Hope I didn't offend anyone.

[RLR]

Well Anna, the only aspect of "getting it" is that you readily invoke sentiments of scorn and resentment as though my relative position as a physician is merely resolute to some stereotype that refuses to properly understand your plight. You describe yourself in a manner more expected by a terminally ill patient, which is clearly not the case.

I know of absolutely no one with somatoform that would be relegated to residency within a psychiatric hospital. Your dramatic remark in that instance is clearly unfounded.

The last point I will endeavor to make here is that your comments clearly indicate that you have gone as far to actually identify with the environment and lifestyle to which your troubles have led you, rather than seek to challenge what would otherwise be an unwanted position. It is evident that this outcome is responsible for your bleak hopelessness.

It is unfortunate that you live a life in fear of nothing more than irrational beliefs, which apparently now guide you. Physicians, contrary to what you have opined, get it all too well. What makes you angry and resentful is that we can't fix what you choose to believe is wrong with you. You're deathly afraid and you contrastly feel that it is the duty of the medical community to cure you based upon a problem that has no basis in physical pathology.

I must join with you in admitting such circumstances are impenetrable by any physician.

I wish you all the best, but in order to be helped you have to first want to do so.

I'll close by inviting you to share your difficulties to any extent you care to, such that I may at least be afforded the opportunity to try and understand what you say can't be influenced or changed.

Best regards,

Rutheford Rane, MD (ret.)

[Going home]

Rutherford, no absolutely not, there is no scorn in any of my replies and I appologise if that is how you interpret them. It was just me trying to make you understand how it is for people with health anxiety.

Jo...as a fellow sufferer i understand completely how you feel as you might have read in my replies to Dr. Rane. Didn't mean to take over your thread though, so sorry about that. Perhaps as a fellow sufferer i can reassure you that from what you say you are ok. Non-sufferers won't understand and aren't allowed to say so :D

Best regards
Anna xxx :flowers:

[jothenurse]

Like I said in my other post - I hope I did not offend anyone.
RLR - I appreciate your comments and I for one am trying to work on the anxiety/panic that I have so that my tachycardia will lessen. My counselor and NP have said that I have made great progress. I am gaining some weight back. My heart does beat fast after I eat, and I know I have fixated on that which in turn in the past has made it difficult to eat at times. I am now working past that and just distracting myself when the tachycardia starts and I have been making progress in this. I had a two hour board meeting yesterday, and I tried to eat a little lunch, but sure enough, my pulse started pounding and became very rapid. I did force myself to focus in on the meeting and it came back down within about 10 minutes. So, I do think I am making progress. Again, I do appreciate the help you have given me, RLR. I also appreciate the comments from other people who have these anxieties/panic, because you do learn what coping skills have worked for other people that may also work for yourself.

[mary3]

RLR,
I think the time and effort you put into helping people with anxiety is amazing. When and where else would people get the chance to ask a Dr often repeatedly about the worrys and fears people have about their health, and get a quick repsonse claifying the problems people have struggled to understand. The fact that you take time out of your life unpaid and retired to volunteer this information i find is fantastic.

I have suffered with health anxiety for 6 years and only recently have i been able to accept that it isnt my physical health that is the problem but my mental health and i very much doubt i could have moved forward with out the advice and knowledge RLR has given me through his personal replies and reading his other posts.

I know first hand the trauma of living with health anxiety and the affect it can have on a persons life especially anxiety about the heart so i am not trying to belittle anyones fears, i just wanted to help others by saying that if you do truely accept the medical advice given by qualifed people then you will be able to focus your energy more on healing your mental health.

mary x