View Full Version : does anyone get hard spells of anxiety despite being on meds?
As the title says? I keep having hard spells every couple of weeks then have spells of normality, anyone else have this?
jothenurse
31-07-10, 13:11
I am not on an SSRI or a different antidepressant. I take a small dose of ativan every day. It takes some of the edge off, but I still have anxiety and panicky feelings every day. What it does help me with though is getting out and challenging some things - going to work, shopping, things that make me uncomfortable. The counselor told me that the more I challenge things, the less the anxiety will be over time. I'm hoping that is true. I have to admit that when I had the panic disorder 30 years ago (and I took Serax three times a day, a benzodiazepine, I did eventually get over it. And eventually tapered off the Serax. Even though during the last 30 years I had some anxiety, I pretty much felt good and free from anxiety most of the time. So, you can get better. I just have to keep reminding myself of that now. That the anxiety will eventually go away or at least lessen a great deal.
Yes chris how long have you been on the meds? I have been on them for 6 weeks but im starting to feel better now x
Yeah I do challenge myself I'm currently training fairly hard for a trek and keeping active and like I say I can go a couple of weeks feeling ok and normal only to be hit with a few days of feeling quite tearful and scarerd of trivial things it just comes out of the blue and I can't explain it! I've been on meds 7 months now
Hi Jo,
I too take atian as needed to help, and it sure does. My fear is that they can be addictive, and also that if I run out my doc won't give me more (thinking that i just want the drug) Not sure if this is rational or not, as I am like you and usually get by with .5 mg when I need it, and this is my first prescription in many months. Sounds like you have been using it for some time? Any troubles with that? I am also starting new go with cipralex, so the hope is I won't need the ativan for too long, but right now, calm seems so far away! Funny how even when being helped by the doc, there is still something new to fret about!
Okay, if you remain highly proximal to anxiety-prone or stressful circumstances, then I'm here to tell you that no amount of psychotropic medications can alter your symptoms. This is a mistake that many practitioners make and it often results in patients being over-medicated, as well as the misapplication of pharmaceutical prescriptions concerning duration.
By pure example and having nothing to do with your own circumstances per say, if an individual is faced with marital problems, or alternatively occupational problems, that pose daily exposure of circumstances which significantly increase levels of stress and/or anxiety or even clinical depression, then nothing short of pure full-on tranquilization would be necessary to absolve a person of their unwanted symptoms in this regard.
Psychotropics absolutely do not possess curative powers, but rather merely dampen the offending effects of a person's physiological response to depression, anxiety and a number of other disorders that impact the dynamics of mood and physical well-being. Both patient and physician alike sometimes fall under the false impression that the medication regimen is curing the patient and this is not the case whatsoever, nor should it ever actually represent the end-all approach to treatment in any instance.
These medications are designed to offer an intense and brief period of augmented relief to their physiological and psychological manifestations while other measures such as professional guidance, therapy and support are being gathered. As the average patient cares little for actually engaging in such necessary aspects of treatment, both they and their doctor often resort to mere long-term treatment with psychotropics as a coping mechanism. This is highly ill-advised for a number of reasons.
So the short answer to your question is that symptoms can indeed remain prominent, intermittent or any frequency in between relative to any treatment targeting their attenuation or resolution altogether.
I would ask in closing that if you're comfortable in doing so, please describe precisely all medications you are presently taking in this regard and why they were prescribed to you. Also inform me of whether precipitating factors are still present in your life and if so, what they constitute.
Best regards,
Rutheford Rane, MD (ret.)
Hi RLR
I like what you say and I think what you say makes sense.
I have been battleing with anxiety/depression with no relief for 3 years now.
I would love to have support and help in any form be it counselling, CBT or any other form of therapy.
I have been refused all of these and so I am left with drugs.
The longer this has gone on the more problems it has caused.
I'm sure that fluoxetine has been more harm than good for me over the past few years. I'm currently only on 20mg a day, but have been on 40mg for a while, and it's led to feelings of greater agitation and intrusive thoughts, with the feeling that things should somehow be worse for me than they are. I did come off the fluoxetine a couple of years ago but I just felt like crap and worried about everything - but I hope to come off them again and rely on other ways of support, along with exercise/diet and all that - will be hard though...
Okay, I'll respond to some points being made by other respondants. Here is the general method to proceed if you have question regarding present status on medications and its influence on your general state of mental health:
Consideration must be given to your baseline problem. You need to be aware that very few patients actually demonstrate concordance(familial inheritence) for disorders like clinical depression and anxiety and although patients will remark that they saw similar traits in extended family members, this does not in of itself offer proof. So in setting aside the premise of genetic predisposition, you must look very intensely and realistically at your life circumstances for it is here that you can weigh how influential these circumstances are and more importantly, how you cope with them on both a short-term and long-term basis.
Let's use a common example that doesn't sugget it to be the case in any person making inquiry here. If for instance, you are involved in a detrimental relationship or marriage and it is imposing factors which cause you to either feel trapped or otherwise relegated to a dystonic perception about the situation and possibly your life in general, then failure to overcome the circumstances by making tough decisions can lead to chonicity of the problem such that you gradually lose ground until it has altered your life views, well-being and general outlook on life. It can produce anxiety and/or clinical depression to the extent that physical manifestations occur. Overall, such individuals find their lives changing slowly to accept detriment because it alternatively produces a sense of security and absence of abrupt change.
A person so fixed in such matters will present themselves to their physican in efforts to seek relief by other means, typically responded to by one's doctor with a psychotropic medication of one type or another. The problem arises when the individual no longer feels any impetus to correct their circumstances, but merely cope with them as best as possible. They often proclaim that they once knew has long since disappeared and there is little ability for these people to accurately describe themselves when challenged to do so in a professional environment.
This is true not just of the generalized example that I've provided, but in any instance where the person's egocentricity has come under attack to the extent that they have lost a sufficient degree of self-confidence, self-image and in some cases, their sense of identity which was intact prior to the chronicity of difficulties that gradually produced resignation to coping mechanisms.
If for instance you "feel like crap and worry about everything" then no amount of medication can cure that predisposition. As stated earlier, it merely dampens the effects imposed by such a position. Even with medication, these patternistic influences are able to pierce the barrier of medication that equate with an ongoing struggle to use medication and coping mechanisms to live out one's life. Is there anything about that premise that clearly defies reality? Given the fact that each person only has one life to live, would they electively choose to persist in a manner that generally makes one ponder why it has to be in such direct conflict of their much earlier aspirations and dreams?
People so often at some point permit life to be dealt out to them rather than seek it out to whatever extent they choose in achieving life goals. They unwittingly move farther from their aspirations and more toward a life of acceptance to whatever might come their way, oftentimes more detrimental in nature than not and it offers a general outlook that life offers less pleasantries than fortunate outcomes. It becomes a life of duty to one's script that was written for them rather than by them.
It is here that anxiety disorder or clinical depression manifests due to predisposition by virtue of the circumstances. The internalized aspectes of self-confidence, self-concept and identity are formed and practiced by individuals who firmly hold their place in life as a unique individual. They hold the capacity to predict their lives because they are actively participating in the direction and goal-oriented aspects of daily living. In the case of the anxiety-stricken patient, or clincially depressed patient, these controls are out of their reach because they have exchanged them either in sacrifice for others or wherein they have been restricted from exercising them due to conflicts which arise.
Understand that these fundamental aspects of what make us individual human beings cannot simply be handed over in the interests of any other person simply to try and impart stability or concession toward a goal. In other words, using our example, if someone wishes to get along and make everyone happy, they will often sacrifice what is important to them in order that it actually materializes. They are often unaware that what is so effortlessly offered up in exchange for their driven expectations, is in actuality the very components which house their identity, self-confidence and agency of control over their destiny. They willingly risk these vital and critical aspects for the purpose of creating compatibility with others around them. Is it no wonder then that such people are often heard exclaiming "It seems like I'm not living my life anymore, that somewhere along the way something happened to me and the person I used to know so intimately inside, is not there anymore. I stay scared most of the time and I worry constantly to try and anticipate things before they happen."
These people rarely possess the insight to realize that they've sacrificed the elements of who they are and in the absence of practicing and living these elements on a daily basis, they simply atrophy like unused muscles in the body and become incapable of performing their task.
If you're taking psychotropic medications in order to cope with life, then you have to stop and wonder why. You have to determine what it is about yourself that you've given up in exchange for a hopeful life that didn't necessarily reciprocate in the manner expected. You have to be determined to indentify with your former self-concept and identity and place it at the front of the line in your approach to life because the people or circumstances that you sacrifice all these things for do not place the same value on them that you do. There is no reciprocity. If you give up yourself, then you serve another master.
Now I say all of this simply to state that there is an exremely complex system at work inside the human mind and regardless of how you choose to define it, it must remain intact in order for you to live your life as you choose and without the need for medication simply in order to cope. If you need artificial means in order to merely live your life, then you're living an artificial life.
It's simply something for you to ponder.
Best regards,
Rutheford Rane, MD (ret.)
Hi RLR and everyone,
Sorry Chris, I don't like to feel that I am taking over your thread:blush:
I am currently taking Cipralex. This is my second go at it. Tried it last year, it worked well, maybe too much so, as I came off of it after 3 months as opposed to the 12 my doctor had wanted. I started last week at 10 mg dose, was brought back down to 5 mg after 3 days of intense side effects, the worst being intensely heightened anxiety. I am set to increase dose back to 10 mg on Monday. I also have ativan for the really bad times. 1 mg tablets, that usually I break in half. I have not been needing that as much in the last couple of days.
My life is not anymore stressful than the average, and I may dare say possibly even less than that. I have no obvious stressors that can be pointed too. Since finding this site, I have learned a lot about "Health Anxiety" - A term that I never knew existed. This describes me perfectly.
I have had Panic Attacks since my early 20's (I am 35 now) out of nowhere. I can just feel the hairs creep up, heart shoot up, and bang - off to the races. I coped with it on my own for years, in the form of books, meditation, relaxation etc. I did a couple of times land in the e.r.
I started having some very troubling health concerns a couple of years back. That triggered the anxiety at an all new pace. It became a normal state of being. It is now to the point where I am unsure if I have ailments that cause anxiety or anxiety that causes ailments. It has reached the point where if I feel ANYTHING out of the ordinary, that is enough that my anxiety takes over and then it is next to impossible to shut it down. This of course leads to uncomfortable physical sensations that impress upon me the idea that something is wrong.
It started with a "knot" behind my ear and down the base of my skull. Not a headache really, but more like a pressure. Still painful. With this comes bouts of "Off Balance" Not dizzy, but more like I am on a boat, I feel unsteady. This comes with no warning, and can last minutes, hours, days, and then disappear for days, weeks, ?? Is this real or anxiety? Then I have times where my eyes seem weird. Not really blurry, but still not quite right....
I have numerous intestinal woes. Same thing, nothing concrete. Sometimes acid stomach, sometimes feels like I have swallowed a rock. I suffer diarrhea that goes from bad to worse daily. I feel constantly like I am just coming down with something, or weak like I am just getting over something. IBS? Anxiety? Something worse?
Like I said, are my symptoms causing anxiety, or is my anxiety causing symptoms?
Now add a medication that heightens anxiety, and causes side effects worse than I already have, and I can't tell which way is up. PANIC! (also the idea that because this medication causes side effects, everything will be passed off as such.)
On a good day, I can argue with myself, on a bad day I have a brain tumor, MS, cancer.
I am slated to start counseling at the first of the week. The last time I went once, and felt like I knew more about anxiety than she did. Because I don't have a concrete trigger ie stressful job, bad marriage, hidden scars, she pretty much didn't know what to say. Take a walk, get some sleep talk to a friend, read a book, try to relax!!!! If I could relax, I wouldn't be where I am!
Just writing this to you is causing alarm. 1) you will tell me something terrible, or 2) you will tell me nothing is terrible. That is the monster of anxiety.
Thank you for listening Dr. Rane, your input is invaluable.
sincerely,
Marla
jothenurse
01-08-10, 01:42
RLR - Marla
I have been on Ativan for about 4 months. I have tapered off of it a few weeks ago, really with no problem. I was only on a small dose though - usually no more than a total of 1 mg a day. And when I was almost done tapering, I was only taking .25mg a day. I presently am back on it .5mg at 6 AM and .25mg at noon. The psychiatrist told me that it was a small dose and I would have no problem tapering off of it. The Nurse Practitioner put me back on it temporarily so I could gain some weight back, which I am starting to do. I was told by more than one doctor that this dose should not give me any problems (like rebound or withdrawal syndrome) when I did taper off of it. I do worry about the addictive power of it, but seeing that I have already tapered off of it a few weeks ago, I guess I will trust the doctors in that I need it for now. I also see a therapist and doing a little CBT with him and also working through the reasons of some of my anxiety. Apparently it is accumulative, from a stressful relationship that I have had that person move out (a boyfriend who did not help financially) and a stressful job, then my boyfriend had a major heart attack, and then my Mom is ill. It started out with tachycardia, which became more frequently and it scared me so much, that my panic disorder returned significantly after being manageable for more than 30 years without medication. I took a benzodiazipine (Serax) and tapered off of that after being on that for many months back then. I am afraid of the Ativan, but am trying to trust my doctor and therapist.
Justanutter
23-01-17, 21:07
I'm sure that fluoxetine has been more harm than good for me over the past few years. I'm currently only on 20mg a day, but have been on 40mg for a while, and it's led to feelings of greater agitation and intrusive thoughts, with the feeling that things should somehow be worse for me than they are. I did come off the fluoxetine a couple of years ago but I just felt like crap and worried about everything - but I hope to come off them again and rely on other ways of support, along with exercise/diet and all that - will be hard though...
Okay, I'll respond to some points being made by other respondants. Here is the general method to proceed if you have question regarding present status on medications and its influence on your general state of mental health:
Consideration must be given to your baseline problem. You need to be aware that very few patients actually demonstrate concordance(familial inheritence) for disorders like clinical depression and anxiety and although patients will remark that they saw similar traits in extended family members, this does not in of itself offer proof. So in setting aside the premise of genetic predisposition, you must look very intensely and realistically at your life circumstances for it is here that you can weigh how influential these circumstances are and more importantly, how you cope with them on both a short-term and long-term basis.
Let's use a common example that doesn't sugget it to be the case in any person making inquiry here. If for instance, you are involved in a detrimental relationship or marriage and it is imposing factors which cause you to either feel trapped or otherwise relegated to a dystonic perception about the situation and possibly your life in general, then failure to overcome the circumstances by making tough decisions can lead to chonicity of the problem such that you gradually lose ground until it has altered your life views, well-being and general outlook on life. It can produce anxiety and/or clinical depression to the extent that physical manifestations occur. Overall, such individuals find their lives changing slowly to accept detriment because it alternatively produces a sense of security and absence of abrupt change.
A person so fixed in such matters will present themselves to their physican in efforts to seek relief by other means, typically responded to by one's doctor with a psychotropic medication of one type or another. The problem arises when the individual no longer feels any impetus to correct their circumstances, but merely cope with them as best as possible. They often proclaim that they once knew has long since disappeared and there is little ability for these people to accurately describe themselves when challenged to do so in a professional environment.
This is true not just of the generalized example that I've provided, but in any instance where the person's egocentricity has come under attack to the extent that they have lost a sufficient degree of self-confidence, self-image and in some cases, their sense of identity which was intact prior to the chronicity of difficulties that gradually produced resignation to coping mechanisms.
If for instance you "feel like crap and worry about everything" then no amount of medication can cure that predisposition. As stated earlier, it merely dampens the effects imposed by such a position. Even with medication, these patternistic influences are able to pierce the barrier of medication that equate with an ongoing struggle to use medication and coping mechanisms to live out one's life. Is there anything about that premise that clearly defies reality? Given the fact that each person only has one life to live, would they electively choose to persist in a manner that generally makes one ponder why it has to be in such direct conflict of their much earlier aspirations and dreams?
People so often at some point permit life to be dealt out to them rather than seek it out to whatever extent they choose in achieving life goals. They unwittingly move farther from their aspirations and more toward a life of acceptance to whatever might come their way, oftentimes more detrimental in nature than not and it offers a general outlook that life offers less pleasantries than fortunate outcomes. It becomes a life of duty to one's script that was written for them rather than by them.
It is here that anxiety disorder or clinical depression manifests due to predisposition by virtue of the circumstances. The internalized aspectes of self-confidence, self-concept and identity are formed and practiced by individuals who firmly hold their place in life as a unique individual. They hold the capacity to predict their lives because they are actively participating in the direction and goal-oriented aspects of daily living. In the case of the anxiety-stricken patient, or clincially depressed patient, these controls are out of their reach because they have exchanged them either in sacrifice for others or wherein they have been restricted from exercising them due to conflicts which arise.
Understand that these fundamental aspects of what make us individual human beings cannot simply be handed over in the interests of any other person simply to try and impart stability or concession toward a goal. In other words, using our example, if someone wishes to get along and make everyone happy, they will often sacrifice what is important to them in order that it actually materializes. They are often unaware that what is so effortlessly offered up in exchange for their driven expectations, is in actuality the very components which house their identity, self-confidence and agency of control over their destiny. They willingly risk these vital and critical aspects for the purpose of creating compatibility with others around them. Is it no wonder then that such people are often heard exclaiming "It seems like I'm not living my life anymore, that somewhere along the way something happened to me and the person I used to know so intimately inside, is not there anymore. I stay scared most of the time and I worry constantly to try and anticipate things before they happen."
These people rarely possess the insight to realize that they've sacrificed the elements of who they are and in the absence of practicing and living these elements on a daily basis, they simply atrophy like unused muscles in the body and become incapable of performing their task.
If you're taking psychotropic medications in order to cope with life, then you have to stop and wonder why. You have to determine what it is about yourself that you've given up in exchange for a hopeful life that didn't necessarily reciprocate in the manner expected. You have to be determined to indentify with your former self-concept and identity and place it at the front of the line in your approach to life because the people or circumstances that you sacrifice all these things for do not place the same value on them that you do. There is no reciprocity. If you give up yourself, then you serve another master.
Now I say all of this simply to state that there is an exremely complex system at work inside the human mind and regardless of how you choose to define it, it must remain intact in order for you to live your life as you choose and without the need for medication simply in order to cope. If you need artificial means in order to merely live your life, then you're living an artificial life.
It's simply something for you to ponder.
Best regards,
Rutheford Rane, MD (ret.)
Amazing read....
Catherine S
24-01-17, 15:53
Amazing read indeed, and it responds to practically every anxiety related thread on the forum. I remember RLRutherford MD very well back in the day, he was awesome :)
ISB
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