All my conclusions in one post.

[cymraig_chris]

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[ladybird64]

Well hello there Christopher :)

Thought you might like to know that a dose of depression has buffeted the calmer waters but I am still refusing to play ball with Mr Anxiety..I have more important things to do. :yesyes:

Good to see you drop by :D

[jothenurse]

A good read and with a lot of good information.

[juliej]

i enjoyed that, very interesting ...thank you :D x

[sedalia]

I always enjoy your posts, and would like to thank you for taking the time to reassure and support all of us

[Meltdown]

Hi Chris

I have just spent nearly one hour reading that (I'm a slow reader!) I take it that you wrote all that yourself? I don't mean that to sound patronising, but I have to say that that was as good, and as professional, and as profound as anything I have read in any self-help book!

Full of great analogies, and insights, and written with a great rhythm and flow....

If you are not a professional writer, I would suggest that you take it up as a career option!

A lot of what you say mirrors my own experiences - I have come a long way! - but I have not achieved complete freedom yet...it's good to remind ourselves of where we are from time to time, and where the exits are located! Your piece reminded me that there are many exits, and many ways to walk out!

[cymraig_chris]

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[cymraig_chris]

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[ladybird64]

Hi again Chris

Just a quick post before I head off to bed.

If a stress event is a continuous happening, very real and not just a worry, how is it possible to for the brain to rewire itself into happy mode?

Does that make sense? Hope so!

I can't pretend to be happy as the very situation that causes sadness is happening on an almost daily basis. I know it's a reaction to that but unfortuantely I have a real and at present difficult problem to deal with..suggestions welcome please. :flowers:

[katnap64]

thank you. =)

[cymraig_chris]

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[phil06]

I experienced nausea, vertigo, vomiting, derealisation, depersonalisation, unreality, sweating, light-headedness, numbness, chest pains, shortness of breath, delayed perception, visual disturbances, hypersensitivity, constant obsessive thoughts, despair, anxiety dreams, phobo-phobia, fear of suicide, depression, fear of depression, hospital visits, Doctor’s visits etc. I had so much adrenaline, I felt could not sit down, any spare moment, I was walking and running around trying to escape from this anxiety. What didn’t help is that I work as a software engineer which means I’m supposed to stay at my desk in a huge open plan office for 7.5 hours per day. Every ten seconds was a battle. I was too scared to sit still; I was too scared to run. When I managed to get home in the evening, the place where you are supposed to feel safe, anxiety and panic carried on.


That sounds alot like I've had the last few months..a stage of Chronic/Generalised daily anxiety...delrealisation and unreal symptoms, the obsessive thoughts, chest, numb, doc visits and my home is a safe place.

I guess the positive is you do get better? I just want to get over my anxiety at the state it's at now.

[ladybird64]

Hi Chris

As always, thanks for your encouraging reply. :)
I would like to raise a point or two and perhaps you can give me some feedback.

I'm not sure if I can agree with you regarding my control over stressful events, let me explain if I may.

I briefly mentioned in a PM to you that I have a daughter (20 yrs old) with special needs. For a considerable time now her behavioural issues have been getting worse and although we now have a team of specialists on board, there is no change.
On a regular basis, sometimes 3 or 4 times a week, myself and other family members are subject to a barrage of abuse, both verbal and physical. We have things thrown at us, belongings ripped up and broken and these "tantrums" can go on for anything up to 4-5 hrs at a time.

Twice recently these episodes have taken place in front of my grandchildren which was obviously very disturbing for us, luckily my grandkids love their auntie even if they don't understand why she "goes off on one""

I honestly think it's the events that stress me out and I don't know anyone who wouldn't feel stressed by them!
I try to react calmly or not react at all but when I'm ducking from an onslaught of clothes, toys, and other stuff being chucked around it's impossible.

How can I pretend that it's not happening? This was not my choice Chris, I love my girl but this is not the way I wanted our lives to be and at times I feel desperate..hence the depression.

She is here and this is our life. Not always like this but frequently..I can't switch her off nor my feelings towards what she does to us.

You know how much I value your advice and have made no secret of the fact that your previous posts have been intrumental in helping me give my anxiety the attention it deserves..practically none.

I follow what you mean in the rest of the post and it makes sense but I can't see how I can shrug off depression when it hits in regard to my own personal situation.

look forward to hearing from you again. :)

[cymraig_chris]

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[ladybird64]

Hi Ladybird,

Did you know that throughout the world the majority of all the cultures have viewed the ladybird as a symbol of good luck? Children throughout history all over our fine world have made wishes when they see a ladybird and they believe that if will give them good fortune. This interaction does seem to bring luck and consequently this ancient bit of wisdom has survived through the ages.

Firstly I apologise that within this reply I will be using many assumptions on your situation and your mindset, but without the specifics of your life I have to extrapolate from the patterns available. Obviously it is not my intention to overstep any 'mark' or 'line' and if this is perceived then it was not my intent.

Additional: Without knowing the specifics of the diagnosis of your daughter it would be impossible for me to offer many direct techniques for you to try. Nonetheless we can answer this (just as fully) on a more general level which you will naturally fine tune to your own scenario, this ultimately is more beneficial because the truth is ... we are all our own best psychologists if we simply believe ourselves to be. You are the expert in all things 'you'.

My observations and extrapolations:
It is my observation that you have belief that although you have come this far in your own recovery it is impossible for you to take the final step and eliminate anxiety (due to uncontrollable external factors). It is this belief that is hindering you from fully understanding the potential for relaxation and wonderful potential within your whole family unit. What I am saying is that as a recovering anxiety sufferer you are best placed of all to implement the wisdom for the eventual solution.

You have read and understood the philosophies, you absorbed all the anecdotal tales of those who have recovered and you have made the observation that the 'recovered' did not have your current predicament, you have supplied evidence (the evidence that you still have the some remainder of an anxiety disorder) to yourself that you are correct in this assumption. Consequently you have concluded that if the 'recovered' did have your predicament that would have hindered their recovery. Your conclusion is that the philosophies and methodologies for recovery only partially apply to you. You have observed the results of this belief and offered it as evidence to yourself that your belief was correct. Let's call this the 'evidence-chain feedback loop'. What have you actually done? ... You have used the evidence-chain feedback loop to prove to yourself that you are exempt from complete recovery when you are the one who created the evidence in the first place (the evidence being your own anxiety). Not only do all anxiety sufferers do this, everyone in the world does this in whatever their chosen endeavours with both positive and negative results ... each affecting themselves and all those around them.
It's all to do with belief, it always has been.
Why?

As stated ... the evidences we encounter which prove our limitations are simply social and physicals manifestations of previous beliefs. We ourselves created the evidence that we ourselves use to define and justify our own limitations.
What about me?

My son has a mild(ish) version of 'Aspergers', he's very clever, he naturally sees the patterns within life, and he's prone to outbursts, some bouts of very 'disruptive' and 'stressed' behaviour, especially during my extreme 'anxiety years'. He was classified as a special needs child in school (by the way the school are very good as is the positive encouragement he receives).

Since my recovery his 'disruptive' behaviour has diminished considerably to a level equal-to or less-than his peers. Everyone picks up minute details from everyone else and we use these details to decide how to view ourselves on a subconscious level. Not only are we what we think we are, we become what others think we are.

Since I realised that there was nothing wrong with me, I also concluded that there was absolutely nothing wrong with my son and treated him as such. The negative aspects of his 'syndrome' have almost disappeared, and he is left with the creativity, the pattern recognition and the intelligence and all the other good bits that go hand in hand with the labelled 'aspergers' person. He get's his 'cues' from the external environment, me, my wife, and his teachers. We give him positive cues; he in return gives us positive cues.

I remember watching him doing four 25 piece jigsaw puzzles concurrently when he was two and a half years old and by three, he was subtracting double integer values from triple integer values. Before the age of 1 he had a concentration span of an hour. He gets obsessed with things very quickly and very deeply ... should this be a cause for celebration or cause for worry? The answer is: whatever we choose it to be … that’s what it will become.

He's now warm and loving. He's happy to be him, he's not very coordinated and does things in his own time, but when he chooses, he's brilliant. He loves his baby brother very much. He won’t take much on face value because he wants to know 'why', if you give him a good and honest 'why' ... he's happy. Is he ‘special needs?’ Is he ‘gifted?’ It's all perspective. He is whatever he chooses to be.
When people are experiencing behavioural/emotional issues, it is often the result of a perceived lack of 'why?' They feel they need a reason and soon as that reason is supplied the relaxation comes quicker. You are a 'why' person at the moment, you daughter is also. In fact most people nowadays are. It's ok to be a 'why' person. Why are you a 'why' person? Because you want to know that people care as much as you care. Well they do, it's just that all too often they are just too afraid to express it.

Social Techniques.
As you are probably becoming aware any techniques which work internally also work socially. Apply all your new techniques and understandings to your social interaction with your daughter and everyone else and watch as the 'confrontation' diminishes and the balances of care and love are restored.

The more relaxed you are the more clarity you see and the more you are able to understand the mechanisms of life.
If you 'pretend' you actually produce the real and tangible evidence that feeds back into the loop. Why? ... because we are able to use the mechanism that causes anxiety 'disorder' to cause the anxiety 'cure'. As stated in the original post, the Limbic system (the source of the Protection Response) does not know the difference between a 'real' and 'pretend' threat, (the cause of the 'disorder') therefore the Limbic system does not know the difference between a 'real' and 'pretend' response (the cause of the 'cure').

If you heal yourself, you heal your world.

It is most kind and flattering that in your reply you credited me in being a part of your continuing recovery, however, the only person deserving of any credit is yourself, there is nothing wrong with this self-empowerment, as this creates confidence and with this confidence you are able to gift your peace of mind, happiness & love to all that you encounter. You have a gift, the gift of anxiety understanding; this gift has created within you increased bravery, fortitude, wisdom, altruism and so many more good things yet to encounter.

Some say I am a 'naturally positive person' ... there is no such thing; I am simply positive because I choose to be. Positivity is the result of our brain chemicals and links, and our brain chemicals and links are the result of our reactions. By simply choosing how we define ourselves we alter our chemicals and links. 'Pretend' you are positive and positive you will be.

If you believe ... you can, if you can ... you do, if you do ... you believe.

So for you dear friend, you just need to take one more leap of faith if you so choose, the faith that you can and will achieve your relaxation and happiness goals in the presence of your predicament. Once you do that you will realise that it is only the start of your good journey, and the by-product of your relaxation will be the relaxation of your kin. Which will in turn feedback to you ... and so on … and so forth.

In a nutshell, if you really believe that the ladybird brings you luck, then you will ‘act’ more positivity after your encounter one.
Your ‘act’ affects your brain links and chemicals, which in turn makes you more positive. This will in turn affect you and all around you, your collective brains will be rewired and their chemicals rebalanced. Where you once saw limitations you will new see opportunities.

The spots of the 'seven-spot ladybird' were said to symbolise seven joys and seven sorrows, what this tells us is that the power of choice was once symbolised as the ladybird by our creative ancestors. They chose to directly observe the ladybird and then to attribute any evidence produced to the initial encounter.

The Sorrows:
The greater the amount of protective and fight/flight chemicals we have the more the unhappy and anxious thoughts stick with you.

The Joys:
The greater the amount of happy and relaxed chemicals we have the more the happy and relaxed thoughts stick with you.

So what am I saying ... is the whole thing placebo? Well no, the belief in anything certainly rewires the brain and in turn effects all the social interactions we have. The implementation of the 'pretend' response requires no belief because it exploits the hardwired feedback mechanism that caused the so called 'disorder' in the first place.

The proof that you have the mechanism for recovery is the fact that you have anxiety disorder in the first place.
Ultimately, It’s the anxiety puzzle that has brought us to these boards, and in such spirit ... I'll leave you with this little cryptic clue ...

"Add sexy interior and exterior is dandy".... muddled? It’s all reflective perspective. (7, 8)


All my regards,
Chris
　

Thanks for this, I have read it, re-read it and am still breaking it down into smaller chunks so I can take it all in. :)

It is difficult for me to put into words what I feel..I will give it my best shot.

I do have hope and I do have optimism and I am sure, POSITIVE, that I all the answers to my future lie within myself. But..I am scared. Is it possible to be hopeful, secure and also feel trepidation at the same time?

Regarding my daughter, yes you do have a point but I honestly don't think that the situation with her is keeping me from "recovery" (I hate that term!), even when I have felt depressed recently I have still felt optimistic as to things I can achieve anxiety wise..in my mind they are 2 seperate issues.

I'm depressed because I'm sad that things have turned out this way and wonder if I could have done anything differently..yes I feel I have failed, even though I know I haven't.

I do believe that I can move forward, I don't doubt it for a second. But the end of the rainbow is an unknown quantity for me and I fear the unknown..I think this is a common factor with many of us who have had anxiety issues or are just generally nervous people.

How do I make the leap of faith? In practical terms? I so want what lies ahead and am looking forward to it but everything about "it" is alien to me?

I know I can do it, past, present and future predicaments included. To do this means to leave behind all that I have come to know anxiety wise, all that has made me the way that I am and who I am since I was a child. Is it possible for me to leave more than 40 years of my life behind me and move on..it has to be possible.

Or maybe I just do nothing and let the future come to me.

I know this is not very eloquent and more than a little garbled, sorry!

Your post has touched raw nerves Chris but not in a bad way..I just feel a little lost..maybe I need to spend a bit of time thinking things through!

Thanks also for telling us about your son..it helps to hear positive stories. :)

[cymraig_chris]

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[heavenly]

Well in the next four weeks you can (if you choose) create limits for Anxiety itself:

If I was you (and indeed in the past I was very much like you) I would try the following:

1) Don't visit this site.
2) Don't visit any other 'Anxiety' or 'Depression' site.
3) Don't mention your 'Anxiety' to anyone.
4) Don't ask anyone for help.
5) If directly asked, just change the subject or tell everyone you are cured (yes ... tempt fate!!!!!).
6) Keep taking the Medication if you are have been prescribed any (but always remember ... that with Anxiety medication, it is you who makes you better, not the medication).
7) If there is anything 'you want to do' or 'you have to do' but Anxiety tells you not to, just do it anyway.
8) Don't read anything about Anxiety at all. (remember any time you read anything about Anxiety all you are really doing is topping up your Anxiety levels)
9) Bin all of your Anxiety literature (Print-Offs, Books, Word docs ... etc).
10) If you catch yourself in the mirror, smile!
11) If you do find yourself having a panic attack then ignore it and carry on doing exactly what you were doing.
12) Go on youtube and search out comedy, music, play computer games, go for walks, go into town for no particular reason apart from to have a look around, cook, clean the house, go dancing, go for a meal etc ... do lots of non-anxiety stuff.
13) Do what YOU want to do, not what Anxiety tells you to do.

Hi Chris, very informative posts, thank you so much for taking the effort to post them on here.

Can I just clarify something with you? Are you saying that coming on here for support or reading literature etc, is actually making the anxiety worse? I do know that if you read for hours and hours about something, especially if its medical, it will actually make the situation worse, but what about this place?

Thank you again.

[cymraig_chris]

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[Ryukil]

Can I necro this thread?


God I wish Chris hadnt deleted his posts.......... But yeah...I was wondering if anyone has PMs from him or anything... He knows his stuff and I believe his way to recover is the way to recover.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Can I necro this thread?


God I wish Chris hadnt deleted his posts.......... But yeah...I was wondering if anyone has PMs from him or anything... He knows his stuff and I believe his way to recover is the way to recover.

Its a bit weird, he seems to have deleted pretty much everything which I find strange in someone clearly trying to help others.

If you look at his posts after the date of the above deletion (they are all deleted on the same day) then you will find some of his comments.

On some of the threads, other posters have replied using parts of his posts so you can get some of the info back at least.

[Ryukil]

I bet that some people disagreed with him and he overreacted by deleting all his posts. That is my guess.

[MyNameIsTerry]

There are 4 threads where people disagreed with him in full or in part. Two of them, it seems he indicated he was going to leave because two posters advised him to stay. One of these was Nic and the comments were inappropriate to him, but I am mindful the response has been deleted now.

Plenty of people liked what he was saying though.

Its strange because he deleted everyday later. He did miss some that are not talking about his methods and then came back for a bit.

Really odd given there is so much information on that letter.

I can only go on the comments of others but there seem to be some less than mainstream views about labelling of disorders and what social anxiety is. This doesn't surprise me because the letter covers OCD and the detail about how anxiety works & why doesn't match for OCD.

So, it sounds like a panic based product to me. I've seen this before with recovered sufferers where they think what they used can be expanded out across all anxiety disorders and its just not like that. It is still only anxiety, but the behaviours are so different that therapists use specific tools within CBT to treat them.

Like I said, if it appeals to you, go for it. I would be more careful on this subject if I saw a pricetag on a product as some of the gurus out there just recycle other peoples products.