Have PTSD and need help with employment law

[lostandneedhelp]

I was diagnosed with PTSD nearly 6 months ago, Occupational Health diagnosed me with PTSD and said I should not go to work until I am better.

I've been off work for nearly 6 months now and am on various medication and have emdr as part of my therapy.

My symptoms are

flashbacks
panic attacks
anxiety
memory loss
nightmares
insomnia
paranoia
associated fear (cars and groups of people, busy areas)

My emplyers state that at 6 months i will go to half pay then at 12 months pay will stop

I have it on paper from my work doctors and a third party advisor that my ptsd is a direct result of my work and suffered at work

My emdr specialist and the advisor who diagnosed me with ptsd (a proffesor) have said reducing me to half pay would further make my condition worse and wouldn't allow me to focus on getting better

I have no way of paying the mortgage at all if I go to half pay (been in touch with the bank and absolute no chance of keeping up with payments if i go to half pay)

can anyone offer any advice at all?

SO far my emplyers have yet to make a decision on my pay (whether to keep it at half or full) till october only 28days before I'm due to go to half pay

was offered serverence (as my emplyers where offering severence to hundreds of people) but my emdr specialist is adament I cant return to the place of work never mind the job and was wondering if a medical retirement was an option, any thoughts would be really helpful

i'm really hoping someone will help me out here as i'm panicing big time

i'm in the uk and a civil servant

[Lynnann]

I think you need legal advice on this, a lot of employers don't offer 6 months full sick pay, statutory sick pay being quite normal in a lot of situations and is only £79.16 for full time staff. Take a look at this site it may help to explain things

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/Illorinjured/DG_10018786

Your first free step would be to get in touch with the CAB as they are more up to date than I would be.

You may be in a position to sue for compensation if your employers were negligent which resulted in your PTSD other than that I know some of the nursing staff that I work with that had long term conditions that needed to be managed returned to work for a week before being sick again which entitled them to another 6 months full pay, don't know if that situation could be done for you, how understanding is your manager?

Lynnann:flowers:

[nomorepanic]

I had 6 months full pay and then I moved on to the company's permamnet health insurance policy and they paid my salary.

I am now back part time but the insurance company still pay part of my salary.

I wonder if your company has that?

[mcclan]

hi since this put me out of work till the doctors say i can go back to work. i got my ssp for 6 months then after that it stopped. now im on contrubution based benifit e.s.a. This is what im getting back off the system which is your national insurance contrubutions what you paid in. The only down fall in that is when you retire it affects what you get when you retire. i dont know what you could do about your mortgage apart from asking can the freeze it for a bit till you get back into work. thats all i know about things but hope it works out for you soon as its cleaned me out for everything i ever had good luck dave

[Chem]

I too had an industrial injury as a civil servant. They had to pay me continuous full pay and then let me take my pick of any available jobs that I felt I could do, with a phased, supported re-enrty to work. My Union advised that they could not reduce my pay or replace me. I suggest you contact your union. If the incident happened less than 3 years ago and you are unable to resume work you are also entitled to sue them.

[lostandneedhelp]

Thank you so much for the advice and quick replys.

I have asked everything from my mortgage bank there is nothing they can do.

Intially I was off work and had to see a work physcotherapist based in london (I live a 3hr journey away) and had to travel once a week to see which was obviously very difficult and resulted in me having a very bad episode and memory loss on the journey down.

This prompted work saying not to travel to london at all and start emdr.

My condition has got worse (doctors have said that not me)

We dont have a union only welfare but they dont tell me anything.

Really dont know what to do as there literally isn't ten minutes in the day or night I'm not affected by this

[lostandneedhelp]

I know it's early days but my emdr specialist has already said I've got physcotic images and episodes caused by the ptsd but a condition that needs to be treated by a proffessional.

All my flashbacks and anxiety fear nightmares etc are about the incidents at work.

I cant even look at a news paper or watch the news any more it has a massive effect on my life and more importantly my wife who cant work now because she has to look after me

[Lynnann]

Hi Lost,

You are not alone in your symptoms, I gave up watching the news and reading newspapers a few years ago because of triggering content, I also vet television programmes although occasionaly one slips through:shrug:

PTSD has a massive effect on other family members as well as the sufferer and your families support throughout your recovery will be invaluable.

It is difficult enough trying to recover without the financial burden that you are facing as well, I hope that you manage to resolve something beneficial soon.

Even 1 day back at work will reset the clock on your sick pay, have a think about it?
Your doctor can issue a new sickness certificate after that day back?

Lynnann:flowers:

[lostandneedhelp]

Hi Lynnann,

Even my EMDR specialist says to travel into the building would set me back massively. I have an issued phone which my work doctors and oc health contact me on and even that ringing sets me off into a blind panic or flashbacks etc.

Just dont want to be in a position of my work kicking me out with nothing but dont know if i would be entitled to any sort of financial help from them at all

[Lynnann]

Hi Lost,

Is there a way you could do some work from home?

Working for the government and their attitude towards long term sickness at the moment means you are on a difficult path otherwise, I really would consult legal advice on a no win no fee basis and see what else they can advise. You may find yourself subject to a capability policy otherwise and eventually be looking at unemployment without the correct advice.

It is unfortunate that so many have to return to work before they are ready and in detriment to their recovery because of the financial constraints that they are under. Long term it extends a condition and aggrevates conditions; unfortunately employers don't always look at the bigger picture.

I wish I had a magic wand that I could wave to provide better understanding of the needs of people with mental health issues and especially those with PTSD.

Lynnann:flowers:

[lostandneedhelp]

Hi Lynn, no way of going back to work, even the building I worked from which would be backed up by my specialists too

[Lynnann]

Hi Lost,

I realised the building was difficult, is there no way to work from home?
The joy of internet lol, I often do some work from home, it's why I am sitting here listing spotting scopes now.
Just a thought?

On a personal note, I find the routine of work helps to distract me from things I might otherwise dwell on, perhaps it is time for you to consider a change in occupation? One more fullfilling and less stressful?

Lynnann:flowers:

[myself]

Hi lost

my ptsd wasnt caused by work but was identified by the works health people (local government) and my actual job does relate to the cause indirectly, as does travelling to / fro.

I was off work for 11 months and told either go back or be finished (no ill health retirement possible despite being over 50).

I did go back (staggered return) and found it incredibly hard, but just like Lynnann, focusing on work helped me mentally.

People are telling you not to go back, but what is your own view - would you like to eventually ? there are two sides here, if you lost your job will it hurt you more than the hurt of going back ?

Have you tried the CAB people, they are ussually helpful and would offer sound, impartial advice, either in person, over the telphone or even online.

In regards traveling to London for help, the actual journey there will mess you up, the journey back will mean you lose the benefits of treatment, ask for a referal from your GP to nearest ptsd clinic.

In the meantime, ptsd and associated problems are hell, but it is possible to have some kind of life (not always great I know but a life all the same), and you have the wife along side you, as I have, THAT is what makes it worthwhile.

ACAS also may be able to help you 08457 47 47 47. (Monday to Friday, 08:00-20:00 / Saturday, 09:00-13:00) .

Myself

[Nigel H]

Did you see your PM 'Lost' .....

Let me know

[lostandneedhelp]

HI guys, yes Nigel I got your PM will reply in a moment.

Absolutely no way I could work from home in this role and although I cant think about returning to work without sending me into a bad place, even my emdr specialist said to go near my building would send me right back to square one.

My GP has saidmy condition PTSD and potential physcotic paranoia is a direct result of my job and no previous issues.

My pay is due to be discussed next week whether it will be cut or stay on full pay depending on wether work decide if it was caused by my job (injury at work) or not.

Any other advise on how I should be documenting this or getting more help would be really appreciated.

Replying to pm now Nigel

[Lynnann]

Hi Lost,

That is ultimately the question, if your PTSD was caused by an injury at work, that they would be responsible for. Then there would be a case for compensation and to avoid a payout they would probably continue with your full pay. However as you are unable to go back there it may be better long term for you to recieve compensation freeing you from ties to that building and allowing you to heal without financial worry for a while?
It would depend on the agreement reached with your employers and your recovery which route is best for you and your wife.

If they decide they are not responsible for whatever happened to you then the likelyhood is they will start other proceedings and you could have a long and difficult path ahead of you without legal representation .

Again I cannot emphasise strongly enough your need to consult a solicitor, I would do it before the meeting you are about to have as the solicitor can attend this meeting with you to look after your interests.

Obviously we do not know your situation and where you stand depends on the circumstances of the event and the practices put in place at your workplace. Also the terms of your contract are a key factor in this as well and I just feel that unless you seek the advice of a solicitor you may agree to something that may not be in your best interests long term.

How you manage your recovery is a decision for you and your wife and I am sure the members here will offer all the support that they can to both of you. I hope that your meeting goes well and that you get the support from work that should be available, unfortunately that is not always the case. So please go prepared.

Lynnann:flowers:

[mcclan]

hi lost i went back to work after my ordeal and yes it did put me back to square one. although it was nothing to do with the works for what happened to me the doctors said i went back to work to fast. the doctors said that they will say when im ready to go back but now like your self im getting deeper into debt because of what happened to me and getting threat letters from evereything like housing electric gas coucil tax etc. it seams systems have let me down on this thats why my trust has gone on everything when we thought would get help from these systems. sorry to babble on whats happened about me but its seems like your in the same boat as i am

[Lynnann]

Hi Dave,

You need to get some help with debt counselling, they can help to sort out this for you and put in place a payment plan. If your circumstances are explained and they know you are trying to make payments, most creditors are understanding. There is legislation in place to help you. Take a look at this site

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/ManagingDebt/index.htm

Lynnann:flowers:

[lostandneedhelp]

Lynnann and anyone else able to give advise on this, my job is extremely stressfull and dangerous at times, although we have people to speak to when available none of it is compulsory which I think it should be.

Once every six months and within one month of stating you where in a stressfull time. This is what I think they SHOULD do but I dont know anyone who has ever gone to see the counsollors with a problem ever.

Whilst its accepted its stressfull its not the military and I think this should be classed as injury at work, what do you guys think?

My GP has done a letter for me stating it's clear to him that this job was and is the cause of my illness, I cant attend the meeting on Wednesday because I cant travel so i'll be getting a phonecall on wednesday telling me the outcome, i hope they class it as injury at work to give me some financial security while i focus on getting better

[Lynnann]

Hi Lost,

Without knowing details I believe your employers are falling short of their responsibility for your health and safety; whether it is your physical or mental health they have a responsibility to safeguard you.

From reading between the lines, when available, presumably not readily available although they are aware of the risks that your job entails. As stess is widely known as a huge factor in so many medical conditions they seem to be failing in their duty to all of their employees.

Your suggestion seems perfectly acceptable and something they ought to consider putting into place but I think you know that already as you already know that they have failed to put in place measures that would have protected you and helped with your recovery from the onset of your traumatic experience.

I hope that the decision on Wednesday is in your favour and takes some of the stress out of your life:)

Lynnann:flowers:

[lostandneedhelp]

Quick update, pay meeting was yesterday, have been told they will write to me with their decision... god knows if thats good or bad, will update everyone when I find out

[mcclan]

well lost hope things work out far ya

[Lynnann]

Hi Lost,

Thanks for the update, was thinking of you yesterday and hoping for a good outcome. Will continue to send good karma your way for a few more days:)

Lynnann:flowers:

[lostandneedhelp]

Still no word from work, please keep your fingers crossed and send me positive energy

[Lynnann]

Hi Lost,

You are still in my thoughts :) hoping for a good outcome. fingers and toes crossed

Lynnann:flowers:

[lostandneedhelp]

Thankyou so much for sending me good thoughts, My work have agreed to extend my full pay to 9 months instead of 6 because it was caused at work.

Thankyou so much I'm so glad they are doing the right thing

[Lynnann]

So glad you got a good result Lost,:yesyes: it gives you some time to think about what you want to do long term without that immediate financial worry hanging over your head.


Lynnann:flowers:

[jtoyota]

I wish I had looked into these kinds of forums when I was suffering 4 years ago.
I really feel your pain at the moment.
I was signed off as sick with depression from work and at the time it was considered to be from stress - however in hindsight (and I did not listen at the time - too proud) we all realise (and I think my employers did) that it was more down to the PSTD I was suffering after a kidnap scenario 6 months previously. Work was also hell and the 2 places together threw me into meltdown.

In the end I think my employers could see they were at least 50 percent responsible for the breakdown and so started talking to the lawyers pretty quickly to assess their options.

I left by 'mutual agreement' contract - which I guess looking back may have been the best thing. I was awarded 4 months pay - tax free (which amounted to almost 6 months net) but it was 2 month of hell before I managed to finally get myself another job.

Scary stuff - but one word of hope - once i found this new job, and I realised that not all employers were heartless and selfish tyrants.....my self esteem and self worth began to grow and I felt much stronger and more able to continue.

I hope it all works out for you .... because I know it's hell when you are in the midst of it all

[lostandneedhelp]

OK so now the time has come for work to review my pay and they ARE cutting my pay and about to stop paying for my treatment.

I have EMDR, which my specialist and physcatrist say is vital for my recovery, I need at least another 16 sessions (currently had 17)

Medication I'm on;

Levomepromazine 37.5mg a day
Olanzapine 5mg a day
Cetralepram 60mg a day

I have it in writing now from my GP, EMDR Therapist and shrink that my PTSD HAS been caused by my job.

Now my employers are saying they will cut my pay and will only review the situation when I have seen an 'independant' assessor.

Seeing a solicitor on Wednesday, but does this sound legal what they are doing to me?

All I did was do my job the best I could and now I feel like I'm being punished for it, we have sent all the medical reports and written letters to ask to stay on full pay but they won't acknowledge the letters and keep saying they won't review my situation till I've been assessed.

I've now been off work for 9 months, any advice would be really helpful

[Lynnann]

Hi Lost,

When your work agreed to extend your full pay to 9 months instead of 6 because it was caused at work did you get that finding in writing?

I think you may have a case for compensation, have a chat with the Solicitor on Wednesday and see what they say?

I hope it all goes well on Wednesday :)

Lynnann:flowers:

[lostandneedhelp]

The letter from my employers states 'we will extended your full pay as a gesture of good will and to acknowledge the fact your work for the department may have exherbated your current health issues'

Now they have not once acknowledge my written reports from my doctors which state;

GP ; It's clear to me his condition has been caused by his work

EMDR therapist; It's probable that his PTSD and other sypmtoms is as a result of his job and working enviroment

Shrink; his symptoms (Severe PTSD and dissociation) are as a result of his work.

My employers won't acknowledge these findings and insist I need an independant assessment. Which I will have then hopefully they will do the right thing, but does this sound right?

[Lynnann]

Hi Lost;

If an independant assesment differs from your current diagnosis, you can challenge it anyway. Unfortunately they are just starting to play hardball thats all and you will need to as well, employers and people don't always do the right thing.

Take all your paperwork to the solicitor tomorrow, You could be in for a nice surprise compensation wise at the very least :)

Lynnann:flowers:

[lostandneedhelp]

OK quick update,

I had my assessment which was horrendous reliving everything, however, I have asked to see the letter that my employers sent to the Dr doing my assessment. They flat out refused to let me see this letter stating it is personal.

Now I am about to send a formal written request on the advice of my lawyer who has said I should be entitled to see it under the data protection act 1998.

On a plus, they agreed to keep me on full pay as soon as I threatned legal action if they cut it before the findings from the report was back.

Any advice?

[Lynnann]

Hi Lost,

Glad you got a solicitor :yesyes: the fact that they are now keeping you on full pay gives some hope :) keep following the legal advice, hope it all works out for you.
As always here if you need us :)

Lynnann:flowers:

[lostandneedhelp]

OK another update,

My employers requested I have an 'independant' assessment by a trauma specialist shrink in London.
His report was completed without seeign my full GP history and based on a 1hr 55 mins assessment and some notes that my employers provided (that I did not see) The report said I was suffering with panic disorder and said it was not caused by my work.

This goes completely against what 4 others doctors and a proffessor have said who have all put it in writing it's 'consistant with a diagnosis of PTSD'' who have colectively seen me for nearly a 100hrs over the past year

I've had my pay cut and I'm now waiting for my solicitor to review all the evidence.

I'll update when I get more, any advice would be very helpful

[elainey70]

Hi Lost,

I was off work for 8 months with severe anxiety, my employers
(Local Authority) paid me 6 months full pay and the rest on half pay. I was entitled to ESA at the rate of £65.00 per week while on half pay, i know it's nowhere near making up to full pay but it did help. x

[lostandneedhelp]

Did you have any medical proffessionals saying your anxiety was caused by your work? I've been on full pay for 12 months and will be on half pay until october.
They (my employers) I feel are pushing normal ill health retirement as they have sent me the applications forms and within a week asked me to complete and return.

My solicitor has actually said to wait as she wants to send a covering letter with the application saying I wanted to be treated under the injury benefits scheme and loss of earnings etc

[Chem]

I was in the same situation and was advised to claim Industrial Injury Benefit. This was awarded to me and it stated that the award was for a "workplace injury".

This completely changed the position of my employers, who had to accept responsibility for the working conditions and incident that caused my PTSD. Like you, I am not able to return to work for them, but I do now receive monthly Industrial Injury Benefit in addition to my other benefits.

[Lynnann]

Hi lost,

They have asked you to complete and return but you are under no obligation to do this within that time period, you will have to start playing hard ball, they already are!

The signs have been there for a while now, they are doing what their solicitor advises, "their assesor on their payroll" found in their favour? That was not an independant assesment? You need to acknowledge that you will not be going back to work there but understand they are responsible for your safety or lack of in the workplace! Indusrial Injury benefit as chem mentioned does sound a way forward for you, have a chat with your solicitor. personally I think if you can get some financial support meantime and find a different career path it will benefit you long term as the distraction that work provides does help :)

Lynnann:flowers:

[lostandneedhelp]

Thanks for the reply guys,

Chem, did it take a solicitor to get your employers to change their mind or did it go to court?
My specialists (EMDR) and physc and GP are working with me on a new career as I'm left without any transferable skills but want to get back into employment in a different career, and I'm happy to say I start college as a mature student this year doing an access course then University next year to do a physiotherapy degree so I'm now more positive about the future.

The assessment done in London was meant to be independant but already my doctors have said it's full of holes and the fact it actually tries blaming the whole situation on my father having a non violent drinking problem when I was a child, it's honestly laughable especially done without seeing full GP history.

My employers are pushing the ill health retirement on me because they know something is wrong as I'm requesting copies of my contract and terms of service etc. I hope they are worried.

I did nothing to deserve this but I now refuse to be pushed around by them. I'm hoping the fact that so many doctors agree it's 'chronic PTSD' 'more than probable caused by my work' and the fact in the early days of my treatement my employers sent letters to my doctors and specialist stating 'been seen by one of our pysch's and has symptoms consistant with a diagnosis of PTSD' which I have copies of and the fact I've been on full pay for 12 months instead of the normal 6 indicates partial admitance already.

Hope solicitor will have a better idea next week.

The one thing about my cases is that it's being considered as a complex PTSD in which a series of traumatic (to me) events over the course of 2 years has made this a chronic case of PTSD as opposed to one single event.
Hi jack situation training
being threatened by a guy trying to mug me
being followed and chased by a car
twice the car I have been in was attack and people tried to drag me out of car
glass bottle thrown at me in which it smashed just behind me cutting my leg very slightly (no stiches needed) told not to report it by line manager
chased and threatned
ridiculous working schedule in which I was required to work away from home 80% of the time
being chased by someone with a hasp
and a few other things

I have this morning had another application form sent in the post for ill health retirement, it's the second application sent to me in two weeks, so I get the feeling my employers are hoping I settle for that rather than what my solicitor is going to seek


any advice or help or legislation to research would be very helpful

[Chem]

My employers had to change their minds as soon as I started to receive Industrial Injury Benefit that stated my PTSD was caused at work. Once that is established, they cannot remove you. They have to try to accommodate you in another job, or keep paying you as long as you have medical support.

Don't agree to anything with them without the advice of your solicitor. Make a claim for IIB and see how it goes.

Good luck.

[lostandneedhelp]

Say did you go back to your employers in a different role?

I have in writing from my specialist that I should never return to the place of work in any role. Going to set about applying now, actually never heard of it before so thank you

[Chem]

I did try, but was unsuccessful. I don't work now.

Good luck

[lostandneedhelp]

Thanks for the quick reply Chem you have a private message.

It's beyond me how 1 doctor thinks he can go against 4 others who have been treating me for a year and make this ridiculous claim in under 2hrs !

I just hope my employers realise how badly they have messed this up and look after me soon

[lostandneedhelp]

OK appeal has been sent to my employer disputing the assessment diagnosis, so just waiting to hear from that now.

[stressedout]

hi, I am off sick from work with ptsd, and depression... I had 6 months full pay, then went on to half pay. I contacted the Debt councilling service, who do not charge for their advice, they gave me a letter to photo copy, which i did and sent to my creditors, and I only pay £1 a month to them (credit cards, and catalogue). I also claim Employment Support Allowance from the DSS, and have applied for them to pay interest only on my mortgage (this is still being submitted, and sorted out)

I also contacted my mortgage company who agreed that I pay INTEREST ONLY for 6 months, until I go back to work.... ie June next month.

I still have no date to return to work, as am still ill, I will go onto zero pay, in the middle of June, and I am hoping that I will get my mortgage insurance to cough up, if they dont, then I should get the DSS to help me with int. only.

I have a dependent daughter, and no other financial help. I really dont know how long I will be able to last, before BEING forced to return to work.... but not being well enough to cope.

My work have had their doctor to assess me, he agrees that I cannot work, and am too ill.

Dont be too disheartened, contact M.I.N.D. in your area, they are helping me, they phone up people for me, accompany me to meetings, give me advice, and have housing officers to give you advice and help...they have been brilliant............ look them up in your phonebook, they are a registered charity. Also they can check to see if there are any other organisations that can help you...

keep your chin up, I am also in your predicament!!

[lostandneedhelp]

Thanks Stressedout, my insurance company have so far been excellent it's my employers that are now playing up. Now it's come to attributing blame and cause they wont accept and trying everything they can to discourage any action.

I've applied to the DWP for industrial injury benefit, I already get DLA from them. We'll see what the next few weeks bring

[Chem]

Keep stressing that it was YOUR PERCEPTION of events that caused your illness. Under Employment Law, every person has to be dealt with as an individual with their own feelings about situations that have to be given consideration.

[lostandneedhelp]

Thanks Chem, yes my specialist but it in a report that my perception needs to be acknolwedged.

I think we have a solid case, although now my employers are throwing as many hurdles at me as possible.

[lostandneedhelp]

Employers are sending out a reply to the appeal letter this week, Solicitor is sending a letter to them tomorrow stating our position which is unless they treat me fairly we will start court proceedings

[lostandneedhelp]

And the forms for the industrial injury benefits are being sent this week too.

[lostandneedhelp]

Things are progressing so I'll keep updating as I've had a few pm's to say it's helpful as they are in the same position.

Solicitor has explained the situation, we have two issues really firstly to get the right pension for me as I can't return to work and my employers have already indicated they want me to accept the lower tier pension, but we want to be treated under injury at work pension scheme so that's the one we are trying to get.

Secondly is a compensation and loss of earnings case. We are waiting for the reply to my appeal not to treat me under injury at work, but have also told them that I'm reporting the incidents to the DWP industrial injury benefits and the HSE because of the 8 seperate events.

[lostandneedhelp]

We now have a period of waiting as they have three weeks to tell us why they are not treating me under the injury at work scheme. So for now I'm working hard on recovery.

[lostandneedhelp]

OK so had my employers reasons why they are not treating me under injury at work, basically denying it could have been caused by work and siding with this Dr who said it was a panic disorder and not PTSD which goes against what 6 other Dr's have said (all agreeing it's PTSD) three of those Dr's work in Oc Health !

Anyway compiling a response and will be sending it back soon.

[ohno]

Please hang in there, I know first hand how difficult, I am in the USA, Washington State, meaning we have worker comp and I too fight the battle of IME, which are doctors bought and paid for by the very people that are suppose to be helping me get better, they over ride my doctors and than i wait, however every time this has happened it seems to be ok, I hope you get the help, as this is a lonely time and makes us more on edge, There are many break thought now with the wars about brain injury and PTSD. Which is helping us here in the USA. Hope you can get what you need. MY theroy is no one should be denied help!! this type of illness is terrible when there is no place to turn> ohno usa.