View Full Version : CBT - My diary
Hello everyone,
I’m doing as I promised and keeping a diary of my CBT on here, in the hope it might help others!
Briefly my story is I’m having treatment for a phobia of being ill while I’m out…more specifically being in a place…like a shop or café…anywhere indoors basically. My main fear is fainting or feeling faint,
It seemed to start when I was taken ill in a garden centre (because I also suffer with M.E) and that seemed to trigger the thought that “this could happen again”.
So there you go, that’s where I’m at right now. Yesterday I had my second CBT appointment and so far I’m finding it really helpful. I’ve talked to so many people in the past about my problems, but they’ve never made me think about things the way the CBT seems to be doing.
I’m finding that my psychologist is asking me questions that make me link my thoughts and realise how they come about. I’m personally finding a lot of my current thoughts and fears seem to link all the way back to my childhood.
What I’ve realised is your thoughts seem to be like a domino effect; you push one over and there’s a whole string that follows right back. Of course I’ve always realised that what your thoughts do…its how the brain works, but what I’ve discovered is i’ve actually started linking thoughts I never knew were connected in the first place. I’m also discovering thoughts that I didn’t realise were associated with my problem. It’s like a leap frog of thoughts (if that makes sense?)!
I can elaborate on this and use examples if anyone would like me to, but I don’t want to ramble on too much and bore you all!
I wouldn’t say that CBT is all about looking back to the past…it’s about moving forward. But obviously to do this, you have to realise what started these thoughts in the first place…and with me that goes way back.
At the moment it’s just a lot of talking and letting me work out for myself how some of my earliest thoughts have a role in the problems I have today.
My psychologist is nice, and actually makes me laugh about my thoughts which is important because it helps to take the edge off them.
I will update this when I feel it might help others…and certainly when I move on to actually tackling my fear (that’s going to be hard I know :( ) and any techniques.
Thanks for reading everyone, hope this helps some.:D
xxxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Hi Hun
Glad the CBT is going well for you & thanks for sharing how the session went.
Good luck for the next session.
Take Care
Alex
Many People Will Walk
In & Out Of Your Life
But Only True Friends
Will Leave Footprints
In Your Heart
Thanks for sharing Munchkin. Sounds like you are doing well.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">What I’ve realised is your thoughts seem to be like a domino effect; you push one over and there’s a whole string that follows right back.</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
The domino analagy is a good one. A hypnotherapist I know described it like this and said that panic can be halted by removing one domino, which stops the effect of all the dominoes falling.
So remove one aspect of anxiety and it can halt panic. An example he gave was of a man who emailed him to say that whenever he chewed gum he found the anxiety would abate. When he thought about this he said it made sense physiologically because in the fight or flight response all non essential systems are switched off - including the need to eat. So chewing gum was stimulating saliva production, in turn confusing the subconscious into disbelieving that this was in fact a dangerous situation. If the person could 'eat', even if it was only chewing gum, it could not be a life or death situation.
I've not actually tested the theory myself!
Karen
Happiness is not a state to arrive at but a manner of travelling.
You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough ~ Christine Cagney, Cagney & Lacey
Glad it's going well, Munchkin.
Kate
"Everybody's changing and I don't feel the same"
It sounds like it is going really well munchkin.:D
Nice to be able to bounce your thoughts about like that, out in the open - I'm sure it helps to make some stuff click into place.
Love Piglet xx
Thanks for starting this post, its very useful for others embarking on sessions with a psychologist to understand what may hapen and as we know changing learned and innacurate patterns of belief is crucial
Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com
Your anxiety is the human representation of the pictures that you paint using your many vivid colours of revolving and reoccurring thoughts.
How big is your gallery ?
Thanks for the support everyone!
Karen, thats an interesting idea about the gum...maybe I will try it! It does make sense.
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
nomorepanic
10-03-06, 15:17
Great post and thanks for keeping this going for us. I will add this link to the others I have and look forward to reading the updates soon.
Nicola
Well I went again yesterday...it went ok. My psychologist has said I need to start to 'challenge my thoughts'...which I agree with. But it is hard when you've thought that way for so long!
I already understand much more about why I think the way I do...so that has to be a step in the right direction. He's also dropping the price per session slightly for me, which will help.
I'm not sure when he'll start giving me some techniques to use when i'm having to face my fear...? My problem is i'm a pretty complex case!!
I went out today, not part of the therapy (at this point anyway), but just because I wanted to get out. It went ok...although when it came to paying at the tills for some things i'd bought my anxiety went into overdrive because I felt trapped in the situation and couldnt leave if I needed to (silly I know, but i'm sure you guys understand).
Anyway will keep you posted. Thanks for the messages. xxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Hi Munchkin
Sounds like you are doing really well. I agree that it is not always easy to challenge the negative thoughts but practising this will help you progress. We are doing this in group CBT at present. Like you, I've had these negative thinking patterns for so many years and I also have a good understanding now of how I have ended up with these issues.
Good on you for going to the shops and for sticking with it. Anxiety and panic does naturally eventually recede if you can stay in the situation. Practising breathing techniques helps.
Have you tried the gum idea?!?
Karen
Happiness is not a state to arrive at but a manner of travelling.
You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough ~ Christine Cagney, Cagney & Lacey
Well done hun and yes think we all know what you mean at the checkout.
Love Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Thanks for sharing munchkin! I am nearing the end of my cbt group and am happier than I have been in a long time. It's hard work but turning out to be worth it for me. Your group sounds a little different than mine in that we were prohibited from talking about the past after the first few sessions. Our group leader insists that what happened in the past is of little consequence and all that matters is that we learn how to think accurately by eliminating our thinking errors so we can move forward without anxiety and panic. The longer I have gone without a panic attack the more confident I am becoming and I used to have them regularly. I hope you begin to experience similar success in your group.
Thanks again everyone...these messages really spur me on and keep me going when I feel down.
Karen, no i've not tried the gum idea yet...i need to buy some! I will give it a go! thanks for your kind words.
Axel, i'm not in a CBT group, just one to one. Its interesting to hear your story though, thanks for that. I'm glad CBT is working for you! Hope it does the same for me!
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Munchkin
Glad it is all going so well
Thanks for keeping us updated
The till thing is very common
An open letter to a shop assistant. (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1211)
FW: Here we go again (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7040)
Meg
www.anxietymanagementltd.com
proactiveness, positivity, persistence, perseverance and practice = progress
Thanks for those links Meg. I just read through them, I can relate to what people are saying SO much.
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Thanks again everyone...these messages really spur me on and keep me going when I feel down.
Axel, i'm not in a CBT group, just one to one. Its interesting to hear your story though, thanks for that. I'm glad CBT is working for you! Hope it does the same for me!
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 18 March 2006 : 19:44:56</div id="right">
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Thanks for the response to my note Munchkin. I hope you are making progress in your one on one sessions. Let me know how it is going when you get a chance and if you have any questions fire away :D
Hi Everyone,
Just wanted to give quick update.
I’ve had two more sessions since my last post here…both went well. I’m working on challenging a particular thought pattern I have which is related to my anxiety.
My psychologist is quite good, in that he doesn’t tell me how to think…he lets me figure it out for myself. He simply suggests a new way of thinking about things…and lets face it, suggestion is a very powerful tool! If it wasn’t for all the suggestions I think about of what might happen when I go out, I wouldn’t be suffering from anxiety!
I also find it better because I don’t feel that he’s telling me how to think. I personally am very stubborn and if I thought he was telling me to think in a certain way, I’d probably rebel against it! It makes you feel very in control of your therapy and your thoughts.
In the last session he also got me to visualise my worst nightmare situation and explain what I was thinking, but more importantly, what was behind my thinking.
I’ve had a couple of really good weeks (well good for me!) and yesterday I went out with a friend. I’ve also had a rather good trip to Waitrose supermarket, and didn’t freak out (and I hate supermarkets!). I’m finding the confidence to do these things from somewhere and I’m hoping it’s from the CBT…
My next session will be my sixth and then we’ll review how things are going.
Will keep you posted. Thanks again everyone.
Ps, Karen, keep forgetting to try to gum idea!! My memory is AWOL at the moment!
Axel, thanks for the post...can i ask, how many CBT sessions did you attend before you started to feel the benefits?
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
hi munchkin, pleased to read the counselling is going well for you, tc .. andrew
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Ps, Karen, keep forgetting to try to gum idea!! My memory is AWOL at the moment!
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 30 March 2006 : 13:28:22</div id="right">
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LOL Munchkin :D. I doubt it is a 'miracle cure' or solution but makes sense in that making one change removes one of those 'dominoes' and prevents the whole domino effect.
Well done for the progress you are making and it sounds like the therapy is being helpful and teaching you to challenge those thought processes.
Keep letting us know how you are getting on.
Karen
Happiness is not a state to arrive at but a manner of travelling.
You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough ~ Christine Cagney, Cagney & Lacey
Munchkin - the confidence is coming from you hun which is why you are building up good experiences now. The CTB sounds like it's the aid to that.
Glad its going so well :D:D
Love Piglet
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
As always, thanks everyone.
Karen, finally tried the gum idea the other day...maybe it helped a little in that It gave me something else to concentrate on...although at times I did look like a frantic beaver with all my chewing!!
Yesterday I went to Oxford to see my friend. The journey there was horrid...I was getting paraniod over things I dont usually even think about, but once I got to my freinds I was ok. The anxiety subsided and the journey home was better....it has proved to me, if you can stick something out, things do get better...it's just the sticking it out thats the hardest part.
xxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
Axel, thanks for the post...can i ask, how many CBT sessions did you attend before you started to feel the benefits?
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 30 March 2006 : 14:28:22</div id="right">
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Happy to help in anyway I can. My total treatment was 20 sessions once a week and I would say it was not until the third or fourth session that it all started to sink in and then I really felt like I was making great headway by about the seventh or eighth session. Some people in my group "got it" much quicker than I did and some took even longer but all but one who dropped out did get better. It sounds like you are on the right track:D
Did I mention the book we used at the start of our group which was about a guy who went through cbt and described his experience? It's called Been there done that? Do This! by Sam Obitz. You may want to read it, I found it very encouraging. Keep at it, it sounds like you are ahead of the pace I was on already.
Thank you for such a kind reply axel. Most appreciated! I'll look into that book, sounds very good. I suppose the thing with CBT is everyone moves at their own pace.
Thanks again!
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Hello!
Hope everyone is doing ok.
Well, I had a really good session this morning! We focused lots on my actual fear of fainting, or being taken ill, while I’m out. I’ve realised I fear this because I worry, that if I faint, people will be staring at me and wondering what I’m doing and I’ll feel like an idiot (crazy I know, but that is what drives my fear).
So…on that note, my psychologist is starting me on something called Desensitisation. My challenge for this week is to go and pretend to faint on our front lawn and lie there for a minute or so…no I am not kidding! This might seem easy for some, but for me, someone who fears making an idiot of them self in public, this is a big thing.
He thinks that I should start off somewhere I feel safe and then eventually move onto something bigger. He did mention doing the same thing in a supermarket…that fills me with horror. Can you imagine?!
The theory is that by putting myself in the situation I fear, and seeing that nothing really bad does happen, things should get easier.
He feels I’m making good progress and so do I. I am not going to attempt the fake fainting thing today because its pouring it down with rain, and I wont just look stupid, I would actually be being stupid!
What will the neighbours think?! I am going to look like a total WALLY…but I have this feeling that once I’ve done it, I’m going to feel quite liberated…
I know this might seem trivial to some, but this is the first step for me and any support would be appreciated. Thanks everyone. I will post on my ‘fake faint’ when I’ve done it…
Oh my goodness.
ps, good luck to Jodie, who is starting CBT today.
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Thank you for such a kind reply axel. Most appreciated! I'll look into that book, sounds very good. I suppose the thing with CBT is everyone moves at their own pace.
Thanks again!
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 05 April 2006 : 14:10:01</div id="right">
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You are very welcome and thank you for yours :D You are spot on when you conclude that with CBT everyone must go at their own pace. Your desensitation sounds similar to what was called habituation in my group. We did exercises like hyperventilating to bring on similar body responses to those experienced when we were having panic attacks. Also spinning around in a circle and a few others like holding our breath then immediately began countering the thoughts those exercises produced in a tea form. I found this difficult to do but very helpful over time. Take care and keep me posted on your progress.
Hi. Well, I have had a really good week! I went into Waitrose and actually bought a magazine (I hate checkouts). I did wait until there wasn’t a queue, but still. I wouldn’t have done that a few months ago. But the biggest thing I did was going out to pub with a friend for a drink. It’s something I’ve been wanting to do for about a year, but not had the confidence to actually do it. So I decided I wanted to do it and nothing was going to stop me, so I suggested it to my friend who sounded somewhat surprised by my idea!
Anyway, I did it and was there for TWO hours (for someone who is usually in and out of a place in 2 seconds, this was amazing!). The build up to it beforehand was the worst part, no sleep and all the thoughts that race through my mind about the ‘what ifs’. When I got there the bar was really busy with a group of young people with disabilities. Obviously some of them were having trouble ordering etc, but I was actually ok and didn’t panic. I was just so determined that I wanted to do this (I actually scared myself with how focused I was!) and when my friend arrived I actually relaxed into it and started to enjoy it. My anxiety level dropped and when I left I just screamed with happiness. I still can’t believe I did it. It’s a situation I dread and now I actually want to do it again!!
I just find now that I know that these are just thoughts in my mind, I know where they come from and the pattern they take, they cannot harm me, will not harm me, and I’m in no danger. I think understanding anything is the key to not fearing it so much.
Also I did my fainting ‘thing’ in the garden…felt very silly. I’ve told my psychologist that I actually would probably feel happier about doing it in a supermarket or somewhere, because that would make more sense than walking out onto the front lawn and doing it there. He did understand, but for now he wants me to just practise fainting indoors. he said in our next session he might get me to imagine fainting in a public place and see how I feel about that.
I feel very tired at the moment because of everything I’ve done and the fact that I also have M.E, but I feel positive. I feel like I’m moving in the right direction at last.
Thanks to everyone who replies, especially axel, it means a lot.
xx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
well done munchkin, sounds like your making fantastic progress and sound really positive in your thinking, tc .. andrew
Well done munchkin - progressing really well and it's this slow steady sort that seems to work the best :D:D
Love Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Thank you Piglet and Andrew! I appreciate you taking the time to read my ramblings and reply!
If there's anyone reading who has had CBT, can I ask is it ok to discuss past issues with your theapist...or is it better to say that you want to focus on the future?
Only, I have things that still bother me from my past, and i'm unsure if they are actually related to the anxiety or not. I don't want to go over them if they are not, but then if they are, I dont want to ignore them if they could help me progress. Any advice anyone? Thank you.
xxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
Thanks to everyone who replies, especially axel, it means a lot.
xx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 28 April 2006 : 12:11:11</div id="right">
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You just made my day Munchkin, thanks that was very sweet of you to say :)
From my experience you will want to go back and revisit old issues especially now that you are able to look at them more objectively. It is amazing how many things we hold onto that were never true but seemed true and quite bothersome because of the way we looked at them inaccurately in the past. I had attached several inaccurate labels to myself that could not be further from the truth but if I didn't go back and look at them with my new objective thinking I'd still be believing them today. So by all means go over those things from your past!
Hi Munchkin
Catching up with your posts it sounds like you are doing so well with the CBT which is great to hear.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">If there's anyone reading who has had CBT, can I ask is it ok to discuss past issues with your theapist...or is it better to say that you want to focus on the future?
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 30 April 2006 : 12:16:05</div id="right">
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I haven't had any one to one CBT, however my personal opinion is that it would be fine to mention anything from the past you feel may be holding you back and ask your therapist for strategies to deal with it and put it behind you so that you can deal with the problems it causes in your present life.
So many of us do have issues from the past which affect how we deal with present day lives and I know this is definitely the case for me. I was discussing this with two therapists at the clinic I attend only yesterday because one of them had been focusing solely on retelling the past memories and experiences which had been making me feel worse. I said that I acknowledge the need to deal with the results of those experiences but I already have the insight into how my past has left me with my current problems. So what I want now is a way to be able to deal with what happened in a practical way which focuses on coping strategies for now and the future.
This is just my personal opinion. If those past events are still a problem then I would suggest discussing this fact with your therapist.
Karen
Happiness is not a state to arrive at but a manner of travelling.
You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough ~ Christine Cagney, Cagney & Lacey
Thank you axel and Karen for your very helpful replies! I will certainly have a word with my psychologist about some past issues i have. It makes sense, as anxiety doesnt just pop up from no where, it always has a cause and that cause is always in your past!
I had another session on Thursday which went well. My current homework is to have, what could be, a rather difficult conversation with my dad. through this thearapy i've realised a lot of my beliefs and the pressure i put myself under, come from him. he is very critical of everyone and everything, and i've been told to tell him to '"cool it" because it's really getting to me.
If i can ever help anyone with advice or anything, and return the kindness that so many of you have shown me, then feel free to contact me. Thank you guys!
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Hi ya Munchy,
Glad its all still going in the right direction mate - I think the 'cool it' conversation with dad is a tough one and wish you lots of good vibes with that.
Sometimes it does us well to visualise our parents the way other people do ie: not as parents, he must have been a little boy and a teenager at one time or another and obviously the way his life has gone has developed and shaped him into the man he is. I find if I visualise my parents in this way then I can grow out of being a child in our relationship and see them with more perspective.
We are all really only grownup children at the end of the day and I think I have a fair bit more growing to do :D:D:D
Love Piglet x
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Munchkin I am glad you are finding Karen and my replies helpful. Don't worry if your "cool it" talk does not go well because you can't control other people but you can control how you let them affect you and your thoughts. Keep up the good work and keep in touch.
aw thank you Piglet and axel! I had that chat, went better than I thought. I actually came across a very interesting article in Psychologies magazine about being critical, so that helped me to bring up the subject and it had some good 'self help' tips in it hopefully he'll read (gosh, i'll turn into a theapist myself at this rate!). Whether or not he actually 'cools it', remains to be seen.
axel, you are very right. we cant change the people around us, and I think when you have the right outlook on life and strength to choose how you handle others, things can look a lot brighter. are you still attending your CBT group? I'd always be interested to hear how your doing.
I missed my CBT this week, had a bad cold, but I will post soon. thanks a million everyone :) axel, i cant believe you are still reading my ramblings!!! i'm sure most have fallen asleep by now!! ;) and piglet, you are right, we are all just grown up children, and i will try and see my dad as being one too. thank you for your advice. :)
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Do keep posting - I am finding it very interesting.
Love Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
axel, you are very right. we cant change the people around us, and I think when you have the right outlook on life and strength to choose how you handle others, things can look a lot brighter. are you still attending your CBT group? I'd always be interested to hear how your doing.
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 13 May 2006 : 16:41:20</div id="right">
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Im glad your chat went well and hope he ends up reading the stuff you left him. I am finished with my CBT group but I am doing my TEA form exercises for about 20-30 minutes almost everyday and feel like I am still progressing. I too would also be interested in hearing how you are doing and happy to be of help in any way that I can be. I hope you are over your cold now and feeling better!
Hello!
Well here I am with another update. My last appointment went well, and I discussed with my psychologist an idea I’d had about gradually confronting my fear.
One of things I’ve realised through having CBT is why I fear the things I do, the exact reasons. One of the reasons I realised I fear becoming ill (fainting) when I’m out is because I feel that I can’t ask anyone for help. So therefore when I’m out, I worry about being ill because then I may have to ask someone for help. And I find that awkward because I tend to think that people wont believe me and will think I’m just playing around (crazy, I know, but this all stems from an experience back in childhood when I was ill and no one believed me and thought I was mucking about. So for me it all makes sense).
I suggested that it might be helpful for me to go into shops and approach an assistant and ask for a chair and say I’m feeling a bit faint and need to sit down for a while. By doing this, it’s showing me that people do believe me and will want to help, and that I wont be seen as being a ‘nuisance’, thereby giving me the confidence that if I ever am feeling ill when I’m out, I can easily ask for help. My psychologist thought this was a good idea and if I could do it, I would be making clear progress. I also said to him that I realised the only way to beat this fear was to face it, and he agreed strongly. He then helped me visualise doing this task and staying calm.
So, the other day, terrified, I headed off to Next with the intention of asking an assistant for a chair as I was feeling a little faint. I would then sit on this chair and after several minutes announce I was feeling better, thank them, and leave the store. I hope this isn’t sounding silly…please remember this is my phobia, so its not just a crazy idea!
When I went into the shop, I eyed up my target (!), an assistant standing by the door doing very little. So I wandered around the shop for several minutes, my heart pounding because I knew what I was about to do. I think this was the first time I’ve been in a clothes store and not given two stuffs about the clothes and lovely things around me! I managed to approach her and said my piece, she looked concerned and said there were some seats by the shoes. “can you walk there ok? only I cant leave this spot” she announced (was she glued to it or something?). Anyway I found this seat and sat there, quite calmly which surprised me, and then left, and on my way out thanked her. So despite being rather unimpressed with Next’s customer service I had confronted that fear and felt ok about it. My anxiety dropped and I went home.
I’m now hoping to do this in lots of different shops (maybe I should begin rating them on their helpfulness to a dizzy person?!) building up to my worst dread, the supermarket, until it becomes easy for me to ask. This hopefully, will mean I feel more relaxed when I’m out because I feel I can seek help if needed.
I’m still planning, at some point, a ‘fake faint’ somewhere, but this will come later because right now the thought of it makes me shiver.
So that’s where I’m at. I’m looking forward to my appointment with my psychologist tomorrow so I can tell him my progress. He’s very helpful because he always sets me these tasks, but says “don’t worry if you cant do it, its not a big deal”, which helps take the pressure off me and actually helps me do these things because I don’t feel like I have to (is that called reverse psychology or something?!).
Thanks for reading everyone. And to Piglet and Axel, you are both sweeties and your replies keep me going.
xx
ps, axel, so pleased to hear your still making steady progress. you go for it, you will get there.
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
OMG I can't tell you how incredibly impressed I am - I read that post with utter awe. You brave brave pumpkin you!!!
I was discussing this very thing last night and saying how much I hate being ill with an audience and think this may be a big factor in my agoraphobia. Even as a child I prefered to wander off alone or just be with my family if I wasn't well - I think at that age I just wanted to be quiet.
I guess for me its a combination of not wanting people watching me and also feeling like its a loss of control - if we played doctors, nurses and patients on here (steady now) I would so have to be a nurse - I don't need to be a doctor (I'm not a total control freak[:I])!!! but I like to be at least in control of some of the situation.
You doing what you did yesterday was utterly jaw dropping for me - I am totally sure if you do this some more you will put this fear to bed. I loved the fact that you did this - so simple but oh so effective - it can't help but work!!!!
I just cant wait to see what you do next and so wished you lived near to me then I could ride on the back of your coat tails and reap some of the rewards by proxy!!! And in Next of all places (my totally fav place)!!
Well done again mate - be proud, be very proud :D:D:D
Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
aw Piglet, bless you for such a lovely reply! :D you've no idea how much your encouraging words help me. thank you!
I only hope these entries can help others. I'm going to continue on my quest into as many different shops as possible. My next mission is to find one that doesnt have any seats for shoes in, that way they'll have to go and get me a chair and this will make me face the fear that i'll be 'inconveniencing' people even more. wish me luck!
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
I was discussing this very thing last night and saying how much I hate being ill with an audience and think this may be a big factor in my agoraphobia. Even as a child I prefered to wander off alone or just be with my family if I wasn't well - I think at that age I just wanted to be quiet.
Piglet xx
<div align="right">Originally posted by Piglet - 24 May 2006 : 16:15:22</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
i can totally relate to what you are saying here. I have exactly the same issues, and it's these i'm working through at the moment. i was just the same as a child too, so your not alone in how you feel.
oh and Next, i know, what a fabulous shop! If there's ever a place to face a fear, it certainly doesnt do any harm to be surrounded by lovely clothes while your doing it!
xxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
I can imagine me being ill in Next with all this crowd around me and its a horrible nightmare but somehow even in the nighmare I can spot a bargin and something that will go exactly with another peice of clothing that I have - so alls well that ends well!!!
I can't wait to hear the next installment!!!!:D
Bobsy I hope you're reading this hun!!!!
Piglet :)
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Hi Munchkin
Wow!!! Well done you. It seems you've taken some huge strides since I last had a chance to catch up on your thread and you are making such brilliant progress.
I can imagine how difficult to was to tell your dad to 'cool it'. I tried many times to slowly regain control of my life from my dad but nothing I said or did made any difference and sadly the only way I could lead my own life was to distance myself from him. I think you've handled your situation so well.
BTW the Psychologies magazine has some very good articles in it and there is also a website here (http://www.psychologies.co.uk/).
Brilliant progress too with dealing with your fear of fainting in public. I totally understand why you have this fear having not been believed in the past. In group CBT we have been talking about emotions and the way we try to numb and ignore them and why, as well as talking about core beliefs. I have a very strong belief that it is wrong for me to say what I think or how I am feeling, and this comes from being told to keep quiet, or my parents telling people I was attention seeking when in fact I was struggling with depression and anxiety.
I admire the way you are facing your fears and getting out there and doing it. Keep it going!
Karen
Happiness is not a state to arrive at but a manner of travelling.
You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough ~ Christine Cagney, Cagney & Lacey
Thank you Karen for your interest in my ramblings!:D
I’m sorry to hear you’ve had some of the same problems about people not believing you and not being very supportive, in the past. One thing my psychologist has spoken to me about is how, if we are unwell and others don’t believe us, they are being disrespectful to how we feel. We should not feel in the wrong. I hope you are finding your CBT group to be of great help. One thing that has amazed me, is how so many of our beliefs stem from childhood, and how even now, as adults, those beliefs can still grip us.
For an update, I have had a very good week. On Saturday I went to Next again (Piglet, I was thinking of you Mate!), this time with my mum, to actually do a little shopping. It went so well, I wandered around for ages, eventually leaving when my legs were aching too much to go on, rather than because of panic!
I also managed to eat out (sandwiches in café, but I’m getting there). I’ve not done that in years. My anxiety didn’t rise above 3-4. [Wow!]
And yesterday I did another of my ‘asking for a chair because I’m feeling unwell’ thingys. I went into a rather large home ware store and wandered around for ages, trying to eye up who my selected assistant for this act would be! Anyone I found one, circled like a shark for a while (actually I was trying to build up my confidence) and went up to her and said my piece.
I’m happy to say this lady was far more helpful than the one at Next, and if you have the same fear as me, do keep reading.
She took me to a chair and asked if I wanted the First aid person to come and see me. I said no and I’d be fine after a sit down. She then offered to get me a glass of water, and I almost went to say no automatically, but as my fear is of ‘inconveniencing’ people, I decided to accept her offer. She went and got me some water and asked me if I wanted her to stay with me. I said I was ok, and she said she’d come back and check on me in a minute. Anyway she did, I gave her my empty glass, thanked her and left. It was nowhere near as bad as I thought. She was helpful, she believed me and didn’t look at me oddly.
Also, no one stared at me. Despite sitting on a display chair drinking a glass of water, in the middle of a pile of cushions, no one gave two hoots what I was doing! ;)Which surprised and pleased me very much!
I saw my psychologist today. We spoke about how a bad experience, where I was taken ill in a garden centre years ago, is making me so nervous whenever I enter a building with the same flooring and lighting as this place had! I’ve discovered that’s why I hate shopping malls and supermarkets, because they all have that white tilled flooring and bright harsh lighting. So I am associating feeling ill with those elements. I now understand why I feel faint whenever I go near these places. So CBT has helped me link these issues.
Tomorrow I have arranged to meet a friend for a drink. I am nervous, but a few months ago I would never have even thought about doing it.
This week has been a good one, and I know they wont always be as good as this. I do have up and downs and still have a long way to go, but I’m certainly making more progress than I thought I could.
I’m still finding it very hard, but determined to keep going.
Thank you for your continued support everyone. I’ll keep you updated on my ups and downs.
xxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
hi there
yes piglet i have manged to catch up with this thread.
by you have been busy. I am too like you and piglet (as you already no piglet) and am reading your thread with inspiration.
I hate going into shops and walking around places. i have not really found out what my main fear is but i am working on it.
keep up the good work and look forward to reading your thread with interest
bobsy;)
Munchkin it is great to hear of all the progress you have made in the past few weeks. Your determination will take you far:D
Munchy mate I love this thread as I can never quite believe what you are going to do next (pardon the pun).
I am finding it so inspirational as Bobsy said (me and Bobs like to have good comparing sessions on msn now, as we cant believe how alike we are in our funny little ways - can't think what we three would be like out together but at least we would have some rather nice clothes)!!!!
Keep on going cos I think you are a little marvel and I am sooooo riding on your coat tails!!!
Love Piglet :D:D:D
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
oh , Piglet, you do make me smile with the whole next thing! :D bobsy, I do hope your able to find out what drives your fear, as i think this is a big step in overcoming it. Thanks once again everyone for reading.
So here I am with another update. I’ve had another session since my last post here, and I’ve also been continuing to make good progress.
My trip to the pub with a friend went well, better than I expected and I did enjoy it very much (and I wasn’t drinking so I know it wasn’t the alcohol!). [:P]
I’ve also been out quite a lot, and have been paying for things at the checkout my own. I still hover until there’s no more than one person queueing, but still! I’ve not done my ‘asking for a chair’ routine anywhere so far, as frankly, I have been feeling so relaxed when I’ve been out I’ve not felt the need to.
In my last session my psychologist did the whole ‘desensitisation’ thing, by getting me to feel very relaxed and then imagining going into a supermarket (the place I hate the most) and actually fainting. He incorporated my fear of the bright lights and hard tiled flooring into it, and said if I needed to stop at any point to just raise my finger. Anyway I was ok with this, and he set me the challenge of going to the supermarket and getting some items!! This freaked me out, but I came up with the idea of going into the smaller branches of the supermarket, Like those ‘Tesco express’ stores. Not quite so big and busy, so hopefully a good place to start. My psychologist also gave me several mantras to recite in my head while doing it. Things like “Whatever happens I can handle it” “I am confident of my ability” and “I am an independent person” etc etc…
Anyway, yesterday I was out, in a village and came across a small co-op shop. Despite being small, it had the set up of any larger supermarket and also the bright lights and awful flooring that I hate. So I decided to go for it. I picked up a basket and got two items quite calmly and then went to the checkout and paid. This was the dodgy bit and I was shaking somewhat, but got through it.
I came out thrilled. I am now planning to do this again and again until eventually I end up in a big supermarket.
One thing that is taking the edge off my achievements though is that, for some bizarre reason, during summer my anxiety is always lessened. [8D] I don’t know why, but I do feel so much calmer this time of year. I think because I can stay outdoors, where i feel fine and not go inside, where i get panicky, may be a reason. Having said that, this time last year, despite the sun shining, I never would have gone near a supermarket.
I am so determined that I don’t want to head back into winter and go backwards as I always seem to.[Sigh...] There’s always the temptation I have, that as things seem brighter for me in summer, I just think ‘oh, this anxiety is nothing, I can handle it’, then winter come and I regret it.
So I have vowed to not think that way, and despite feeling so much better, to continue facing every little thing that I fear in order to conquer it, and lessen the chance of a relapse in winter.
Wish me luck with my trips to the mini-supermarkets! I hope one day I’ll end up in a big one!!
xxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Munch you hardly need luck anymore as your attitude is totally driving this :D:D
It must be a lovely feeling to have relaxed times when doing the things you find most difficult.
I see advantages to both summer and winter in terms of anxiety - yes in winter it can be a bit gloomy but the darker evenings mean I can get out to the shops much more happily, so thats good for my exposure - if not my bank balance. In summer I feel much more jolly cos of the brighter warmer days (we do get some sometimes) and the longer days make you feel you achieve more.
So perhaps it may help you to see that both have ways of helping you practice something or other.
Bobs and I were discussing this whole thing of trying to see any outings as practice sessions and not test situations as that would go along way to taking the pressure off.
Not that you need telling any of this, because you really have a handle on it now and it's lovely to watch!!!!:D:D:D
Love Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
nomorepanic
10-06-06, 18:32
Munch
Well done on all your progress you are doing so well and it is obviously working well for you!
Great progress so well done you for all you have achieved.
Nicola
Wow Munchkin, so much more progress since the last time I was here. I haven't read for a while due to going through a bad patch myself but it sounds like you are coping brilliantly.
I agree that it is a good idea to start with smaller versions of supermarkets, like the Express stores. I currently have a problem with panic attacks in supermarkets but this is due to being surrounded by food. The day hospital manager at the clinic I attend said she would not suggest anyone with panic starts by tackling the big supermarkets but to start small and build up. Unfortunately, I have only certain foods I will eat and can only get these from the bigger stores.
Keep going with the practising as you are doing so well. Just take things one step at a time and you will get there.
Karen
Happiness is not a state to arrive at but a manner of travelling.
You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough ~ Christine Cagney, Cagney & Lacey
Piglet - Thanks for your support to all my posts. They really do keep me going when i'm feeling a bit low
Nicola- Thanks a lot for stopping by and reading. I know moderating this forum must take a fair amount of your time!
and Karen, I'm really sorry to hear you've hit a bad patch recently, but thank you for your advice about the supermarkets. you are very right, I think it's wise to walk first before trying to run!
xxxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Hey everyone,
Sorry for lack of updates. Not been feeling too well and I didn’t have another CBT appointment last week anyway so didn’t have much to report.
I’ve had two trips to a supermarket since my last update. One where I queued behind three, yes three, people to pay for an item! And I didn’t freak out and do my usual “oh, I’ve forgotten something” routine to get myself out of the queue! I stayed with it and it wasn’t too bad. My next plan is to take a small trolley and shopping list around this mini Tesco. I also went round a big Sainsburys, not for shopping, but managed to get right to the back of the store without freaking out about being far away from the door. I would say my anxiety was about a 4-5, not bad, but within a second (literally) it shot up to a 10 without warning, it was very bizarre. But I didn’t run and it did subside.
I had another CBT appointment today, which was very intense and I feel thoroughly drained. I didn’t enjoy it to be honest and feel a bit upset about things. :( I think just because at every corner the psychologist was making me carry on and think beyond the point that I would have normally stopped at. Some of the questions have made me remember things I’d rather forget…but I cant forget them any longer because I have to face up to things and stop hiding. Plus I’ve not had a session for two weeks and it was like two rolled into one. I feel like I want to cry and I’m not even sure why…[Sigh...]
Anyway I suppose ups have to have downs. Will update when I have something more helpful to add, rather than just mumbling.
xxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Piglet gives Munchy a friendly hug to reassure her that all is still ok and this is just another rung on the ladder to climb.:)
You are doing so well mate that there have got to be some consolidation days in amongst all the progress. Well done on getting to the back of the supermarket and letting the panic do its thing and then sod off, that was just the right approach.
Also well done for queuing with 3 people ahead without resorting to saying 'I will need to go first as I have a prolapsed womb'. Someone used that line infront of me once and I was so jealous of their inventiveness and really wanted to add one of my own - I was so busy thinking like this I forgot to be panicky.
You feel crap now at letting out some stuff but letting it out is like letting it go and will eventually free up some space in your head for nicer stuff.
Love Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Hey munch
sorry your not feeling too clever at the minute im not having such a good time either. It must be the weather lol
I was wondering if in fact is was really because im trying to do more things and move a little out of my safety zones and it can be quite scary dont you think when you no you have to move on a little Maybe you are doing the same and all those scary thoughts come back.
I had a real scary feeling come over me on saturday (for no reason I thought) but im sure there will be one at the back of my head somewhere.
Im sure you will soon be back to your lovely self
take care
bobsy
chucklehound
22-06-06, 10:00
Hi Munch and Bobsy, I hope you both feel better soon!
Take care
Chuckle
xxxx
thanks everyone. Piglet, your 'prolapsed womb' story certainly brought a smile to my face, thank you!
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Munchkin your notes continue to encourage me and everyone else. Don't get too down about the tough appt it's always two steps forward one step back :)
hi there,
bit more of a cheery update this time, sorry about my last. And thank you very much to everyone who replied with kind words. I feel like everyone is giving me support and I want to give some back in some way!
Since my last update I have been round several supermarkets, the biggest being Waitrose where I actually plucked up the courage to take a small trolley around. It was very busy and when I got to the checkout found every till had a queue a mile long – nightmare situation. :( I did begin to panic and joined one of these lines, however then noticed the ‘baskets only’ till was empty and was very cheeky and, as I only had a few items asked if I could go through. I did and then regretted it for not sticking with it and wimping out. I also tackled a Sanisburys, this time only with a basket and freaked out again at the tills.
I have today discussed this problem with my psychologist and we both agree that, in the Waitrose situation, I should have stuck with it. He has suggested that I think of a ‘so what’ approach when I begin to panic like this and think of some positive things to say to myself, also telling myself that I have been through these feelings so many times and that they cannot harm me.
Because I fear being ill In these situations, he suggested also that, when at a checkout and queuing, to try and just sit down on the floor, reassuring those around me that I’m fine and often feel a bit faint and therefore need a sit down…this may sound crazy but the theory is that if I feel that I can sit down without feeling awkward about it, then I wont panic so much about feeling faint, because I’ll know what to do. does that make sense? So I may soon put this theory to the test, so if you see someone sitting crossed legged in the middle of a queue anywhere, shuffling along on her bottom when the queue moves, you know it’s me!!;)
I am finding paying for things at tills easier now though in most places, except supermarkets and anywhere that has the two triggers for me, tiled flooring and bright lights.
On a positive note, I was out yesterday with friends, something I never would have even thought about a few months ago. Although anxious beforehand once I got going the anxiety seemed to crawl back into its stupid little hole and leave me alone.
This weekend I am away at a hotel with a friend, wish me luck because although I am not freaking out at the prospect, it’s still a little unnerving. I now have two weeks or so with no CBT (apart from a free personality test and profile that my psychologist has kindly arranged, gawd knows what it'll say I'm like!!;)). I will keep going with my tasks though and will let you know if theres anything that can be of help to anyone.
I appreciate the time everyone who replies takes, thank you, and I welcome anyone into the topic who has anything to add.
I hope things with all my regular readers (!!) are going ok? axel, are you still progressing ok?
xxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
So if a friend says there someone sat on the floor ahead of us I can just say " Oh that's Munch she does it all the time - now shut your face and pass me that brown paper bag and I'll see you at the car!!!!!!
I will be waiting avidly for news of this latest idea!!!!
You amaze me and I think you're fab!!:D
Piglet x:)
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Hi Munchkin, thanks for asking how I am doing! I had fears about relapsing once my group was over thus far I am doing pretty well. I have not had an anxiety attack in months and am feeling better all the time. Our instructor said it was important to keep doing the exercises we have learned to get them more ingrained as our new way of thinking and I am doing my tea forms everyday and I am starting to see them become more my natural way of thinking. I know I still have a lot of work ahead of me but for the most part things are going well.
Make sure and do your tea forms and other exercises during your break becuase that will just make them stronger and the homework was what really got me progressing faster. As for your Waitrose line, I would change the wording your psyche used to we both agree 'it would have been a good idea to' have stuck with it. Our group leader said using the word should causes anxiety and is the main offender in the counterproductive thinking error which causes more anxiety. Hope you are having fun with your friend.
thank you once again piglet and axel! :) axel, i am so pleased to hear your still making positive progress. :D I know the fear of relapse can be quite scary, but you encourage me with your words. keep on going my friend, you will get there! Do keep me updated on how you’re going.
and piglet, thanks for your support and sticking up for me!! ;) I was in sainsburys today and was queueing for some time, I was going to sit down but didn’t feel the need to. I found that trying out a ‘so what?’ kind of approach was helpful. I find when I get anxious obviously it all seems very serious and dangerous (even though it isn’t) and that saying in my mind, things like “so what? It cant hurt me. I’m in control” took the edge off it and made it seems less scary. I also managed to say to myself “bring it on, because I can handle it” and when I said that I just felt that roaring anxiety back down slightly because it had no where to go. I guess you could say it’s like calling the anxieties bluff!
I also queued for ages in the post office today, and managed ok, particularly enjoying the air conditioning in this 36 degree heat!
And as for my weekend away with a friend, despite no sleep the night before and anxiety on the way there, I managed fine at reception and even managed my first meal out in 5 years (which was a three course one, so I was there a while!). I then began to relax into it, and going down for breakfast the next morning seemed easy. I’m pleased I ate in the restaurant because I have an understanding friend who wouldn’t have minded eating in our room. But I would have minded, because I knew I could eat in the restaurant and wasn’t settling for anything less…I am rather glad I did go down for my meal as our waiter was rather like Johnny Depp which pleased me greatly!!
I also find that trying to not give too much thought to something before you do it, helps. If I had arranged to go for meal with a friend one evening I would have been fretting away beforehand, but through being with my friend and chatting away, I had little time to think about what I was going to try and do.
i still have a long way to go because i still have regular 'freak outs', and this weekend has been a bad one. but i'm so determined to get there and wont rest until i've sorted this.
Anyway I still have a few weeks before my next CBT appointment so will update then. And many thanks once again to everyone who takes the trouble to reply.
xx ps, can i ask anyone who may know, i've seen a video of Claire Weekes and want to get her books. has anyone read them and if so what one would they recommened as being best for me and my problems? mind you they'd probably all be good from what i've heard!
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Hi Munchkin,
Thanks for your words of encouragement as well:D. I'm in a rush but wanted to check in with you and say hi. I have not read the Claire Weekes books so I am sorry I cannot give a recommendation but I am sure there are things that can be gained from any cbt book. I know what you mean about not thinking too much before doing things helping but we were taught that it is better to confront those thoughts and change them to more objective thoughts or we'd keep reinforcing them. It seems to be working so hopefully you can give that a try soon. Take care.
thanks axel for your advice...your such a poppet to still be interested in my ramblings! I will give your suggestion a try, I assume after time, thinking more positively comes naturally?
It is so hard to replace thoughts you've had for such a long time, as I'm sure you know.
always feel free to use this topic to let me know how your getting along, because I'm sure others find your advice very helpful too.
I have seen my psychologist again this week. i will now have a session every two weeks, as he feels we have now moved into the 'action stage' of the operation! this will give me more time to get some of the activities done in between sessions.
I have decided I want to try and get on a bus into town. I'm not attempting this until the weather cools here, as this heat is making me feel awful.
My psychologist has also asked me to try flooding...I am going to post a seperate topic on this as I would like others opinions. He feels this would be a good thing to try in a supermarket (going in for item after item and not giving up until the anxiety has subsided.), as I never see anxiety through to the end, escaping as soon as I can. he has offered to be there with me, in case i need extra support.
He also suggested having a plan of action, so I know exactly what I am going to do, and also to try and focus outwards as much as possible as I seem to look inwards all the time.
Progress wise, I have continued to get out, always paying for items myself rather than sending whoever i'm with to the tills, or avoiding them altogether. And I feel I am taking more control and being more independent through doing this.
Thanks for reading everyone.
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
nomorepanic
28-07-06, 19:59
Munchkin
Sounds like you are doing really well to me and I will look at the flooding post.
Well done on all your progress so far! We will crack this together won't we?
Nicola
thanks :) yes, we will crack it...and when we do I think we should also crack open a bottle of champayne!!
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">thanks axel for your advice...your such a poppet to still be interested in my ramblings! I will give your suggestion a try, I assume after time, thinking more positively comes naturally?
It is so hard to replace thoughts you've had for such a long time, as I'm sure you know.
always feel free to use this topic to let me know how your getting along, because I'm sure others find your advice very helpful too.
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 28 July 2006 : 13:43:33</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Slowly but surely it is becoming more natural to me but it has taken some work and it is a slower process than I would prefer but as long as I keep seeing progress I will continue to counter my thoughts everyday in a tea form. Hopefully in the not too distant future I will awake and not need to use tea forms or any of the other exercises anymore because it will be my default way of thinking in the same way my improper processing of thoughts got me here was in the first place.
I think the flooding idea is great but would definitely have him go with you the first time or two at least. Without support you may be setting yourself up for failure and that may set you back so take him up on that offer.
It's always good to hear from you and I will look forward to hearing how your flooding goes. Take care!
Hi ya Munchie hun,
Sounds like things are still progressing really well - interested in the flooding idea.
I really like Claire Weekes and the book I have I think is called self help for your nerves, it's the one with a cream border and a purply lilacy flower design on the front if that helps (just being too damn lazy to go upstairs to look actually - but I will if you want me to)!:D
Love Piglet xx
I am really encouraged to hear about the positive effects of CBT. I work as a psychotherapist in London and have employed many forms of counselling over the years. My patients respond very positively to CBT and I am glad to hear of similar experiences. One of its advantages, of course is that it is relatively brief compared to other forms such as psychodynamic or psychoanalytic work.
Dr Sheri Jacobson
http://www.harleytherapy.co.uk
thanks axel for your post. i am encouraged to hear that your finding your thoughts becoming more positive naturally. you seem to have such a good understanding of them, which clearly helps very much.
pigelt, thanks for your advice on the book! i am definately going to get them.
and Dr Jacobson, nice to have a professional input. thanks for your post, much appreciated.
anyway an update...
My progress has been slightly impaired recently, as I’ve been unwell and not had so many opportunities to get out (although in some ways not being well proved to me how far I’ve come, because an appointment at the doctors and a hospital visit for blood tests, didn’t even phase me). Its due to this that I’ve not yet attempted the flooding. I will when I’m feeling better though and will keep you updated.
Progress wise, I have been out socialising far more than I used to and have made some new friends, one of whom I’m going out for coffee with this week. A few months ago I wouldn’t go out with a friend I’ve known for 16 years, let alone go somewhere with someone I’ve known two weeks!
I’m still finding the anxiety is there every time I go out, however I am feeling more confident about handling it. I do still have bad experiences though, one last Sunday shook me up and I had to leave the situation I was in because I made myself feel so retched. Times like those make me angry because I want to be free of this, but I make myself look at what I am achieving and how far I’ve come.
In my session today my psychologist suggested each day for 10 minutes, I try some meditation while reciting a mantra, to try and calm my mind. If I can get a bit of respite from my whizzing mind, it may help me feel calmer generally.
So much has changed in my life over the past few months that I’m having trouble taking it all in. I feel somewhat shell shocked because all the things I dreamt of doing, I’m either now actually doing them, or I feel my goals are within reach.
I have no appointment for a month, and I am away on holiday by the coast for two weeks soon. Despite being away I am still going to take every opportunity there is to face my fear and will update this when I have some more news (may be a while though).
Take care everyone and thanks as always for the replies, they mean so much to me xx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
nomorepanic
09-08-06, 19:37
Hi munchkin
You do sound a lot better and like me are finding it hard to find time to practise these things as often.
The socialising is fab as that builds self confidence too.
I too have the anxiety whilst driving so I know how you feel - we both have to recognise it can't kill us and it will not set us back atall.
Have a fab holiday and put all this new found knowledge into practise!
Well done!
Nicola
Munch - you are still doing most marvellously well!!!!
Enjoy your holiday hun :D:D:D
Love Piglet x
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
thanks so much nicola and piglet.
and nicola, yes I totally agree, socialising does build self confidence. i've certainly noticed this.
speak to you all when i'm home,
xxxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">I am really encouraged to hear about the positive effects of CBT. I work as a psychotherapist in London and have employed many forms of counselling over the years. My patients respond very positively to CBT and I am glad to hear of similar experiences. One of its advantages, of course is that it is relatively brief compared to other forms such as psychodynamic or psychoanalytic work.
Dr Sheri Jacobson
http://www.harleytherapy.co.uk
<div align="right">Originally posted by shezibear - 09 August 2006 : 12:21:49</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Great to have a doctor on the site posting! Cbt has been great for my life. I tried years of psychodynamic and analytic and gained understanding but not much to help me live my everyday life. What are your favorite cbt books? Lots of people on here talk about Claire Weekes books, do you have an opinion on them? We used the book by Sam Obitz in my group and I found it to be great for me because I really identified with what he went through and it encouraged me to keep at the exercises. Any other books you like? Thanks and I hope you keep posting here.
Hi Munch, good to hear from you! I think the socialising is great and will help build your confidence but I am confused as to why your therapist is not focussing more on helping you counter and change your thoughts because that is what my understanding of cbt's main component is? We focussed after the first few sessions on this and exposure therapy. You may want to ask your therapist at your next session. Take care and enjoy your break :)
missacorah
22-08-06, 14:41
Wow! What can I say? This is the first time I have been in the 'therapy' section of the forum and after being referred for CBT yesterday was delighted to find this honest and informative thread.
Honestly, thanks, Munchkin - I've been sat here like a loon laughing and crying at the same time at some of your posts and experiences as I am having a bad time at the mo - you are a great inspiration so thanks and cant wait to hear more of your progress.
Well done!
Welcome missacorah. You'll love cbt it has been great for me.
Thank you missacora for your comments and welcome to the thread! It encourages me to keep on updating, when I know others find reading my posts interesting. I’m so glad you’ve been referred for CBT, it is hard work but very worthwhile. I just hope it can help you as much as its helped me and the others on here. Thanks again for such a lovely post.
Axel, yes I am going to ask my psychologist about focusing more on tackling my thought processes. We do in every session, but I’ve found that I’ve always made the most progress when I’ve used this approach to the full. I’ve found, as I’m sure you have, that when you understand the pattern your thoughts take and how they simply just repeat over and over, you stop listening to the thoughts so much. I think I also need more positive affirmations to replace the negative thoughts I’m trying to get rid off.
My holiday was not the best, nothing to do with anxiety though, I’m pleased to say! Just situations and weather not going as planned, but it was good to have a break.
While I was away, I went into a small supermarket for some bananas and my anxiety in there was so low it was amazing. The sceptical side of me is just saying it was a good day, but I’m hoping it was permanent.
Everywhere I went on holiday I queued and paid for things on my own (even using my visa card which takes longer than just bunging money in the cashiers hand, as I used to favour doing). I didn’t have one incident of severe anxiety for the whole two weeks.
Also the fact that the weather was pretty bad, was probably a blessing in disguise because it meant I had to go into places (my main fear) rather than opting to eat outside or whatever.
Also before I went on holiday I went around a big sainsburys with a TROLLEY (!!!) and got several items on my own. I was quite anxious but about 4 months ago I wouldn’t even go though the shop doors even with someone I knew.
When I was away and thinking about things, I also realised something very interesting. I feel so much more freedom in my life generally now. before I felt so trapped by others expectations of me, of the pressure I used to place on myself and also feeling trapped by others views on life, and I really felt out of control of my entire life. Like someone else was in the driving seat and I was just a passenger.
My therapy has helped me see that I am in control, of the way I feel and behave and also I have complete control over what my opinions are and don’t have to just accept others views. I have the right to think differently. I used to feel so trapped whenever I went out anywhere, and I’m wondering if that was a reflection of how I felt deep inside about my life generally.
My psychologist once made an interesting point, that even if you are in prison and have no physical freedom, or held captive against your will, on one can ever take away your freedom of mind.
Anxiety always tries to rob us of this freedom but I am certain now, that you can always always take back control.
Another cbt on Wednesday. Thanks once again for your support everyone.
xxxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
When I was away and thinking about things, I also realised something very interesting. I feel so much more freedom in my life generally now. before I felt so trapped by others expectations of me, of the pressure I used to place on myself and also feeling trapped by others views on life, and I really felt out of control of my entire life. Like someone else was in the driving seat and I was just a passenger.
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 02 September 2006 : 14:26:10</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I can/could so identify with this and feel this a realisation I am slowly coming to too Munch!
This is why people who don't give a damn about what others may think of them rarely suffer this type of anxiety. They may suffer anxieties after some terrible life experience but are most certainly not hampered in their recovery because of it.
Again I smiled about the always liking to pay by cash = another me thing too!
Well done on your holiday hun - you really did tackle lots of little bits and bobs which added up together as an enormous amount of progress! :D:D:D
Love Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
nomorepanic
02-09-06, 14:06
Munch
Sounds like you are doing really well and changing those thought patterns and challenging it along the way.
I am really chuffed that you are doing so well and CBT is really helping you.
Well done on all your shopping experiences too! Way to go girl!
Nicola
Thanks guys! And piglet, you are so right, those who don’t give a damn don’t seem to suffer like this. oh the curse of caring…or caring too much, of what other think of us! how are you doing anyway piglet? and nicola, i hope your cbt appointment on the 15th goes really well too.
I had another appointment last week. Went well, and we spoke more about this whole ‘caring about how others see me’ issue…and I had a revelation!
We were talking about how fainting in public, being spark out on the floor somewhere, is my worst nightmare. My psychologist asked me what the reason behind this was…and after a long silence I suddenly realised. I like to control how others see me, it’s really important (too important) to me that people think I’m a capable ‘normal’ person, and that they don’t think anything weird or negative about me. I feel, that if I was lying on a supermarket floor after passing out, I wouldn’t be in control of their view of me…I’d be sort of exposed, and they might be thinking ‘look at that wierdo’ (even though I know no one really would!!).
This also applies to me in social situations, I get so focused on trying to say the right thing and come across in the right way (even with people I’ve known for years), that I can never fully relax and just be ‘me’.
These feelings all contribute to my anxiety, and seem to be one of the (many, I’m discovering) root causes.
To help me with this my psychologist then said, that obviously in life, you cant please everyone, and the only thing you can do is to decide, based on your own values, what a good decent person is and be that person. He said that some people may dislike you for weird reasons, things you cant control, and when I’m in social situations to imagine how I’d behave/respond if I thought this way and compare that with how I think and behave now.
So basically, I’m a control freak!! I’ve always been one, now looking back, I can see that. And of course, if your taken ill, I always feel that control is lost.
I’m still queuing, even in the post office which is always busy, And I’m getting to church and managing to stay in my seat rather than fidgeting for Britain!!
The flooding idea is still going to be attempted, but since being back from holiday I’ve honestly not had a spare moment to do it. Do not give up on me though! I always stand by my word and I will do it!!!
Lots of love to you all.
xxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
We were talking about how fainting in public, being spark out on the floor somewhere, is my worst nightmare. My psychologist asked me what the reason behind this was…and after a long silence I suddenly realised. I like to control how others see me, it’s really important (too important) to me that people think I’m a capable ‘normal’ person, and that they don’t think anything weird or negative about me. I feel, that if I was lying on a supermarket floor after passing out, I wouldn’t be in control of their view of me…I’d be sort of exposed, and they might be thinking ‘look at that wierdo’ (even though I know no one really would!!).
This also applies to me in social situations, I get so focused on trying to say the right thing and come across in the right way (even with people I’ve known for years), that I can never fully relax and just be ‘me’.
These feelings all contribute to my anxiety, and seem to be one of the (many, I’m discovering) root causes.
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 11 September 2006 : 14:05:23</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Sometimes Munch I could write your posts for you - this is soooooooo me as to be ridiculous. I too have a certain way I like to think people think of me. Why? I have absolutely no idea.
Again like you I guess I am a control freak - I don't think I am in every aspect of my life but obviously in this area I am. I wonder why this is so important - weird!!
Anyway hun you keep posting as your replies strike a chord with so many of us.
Love Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
Axel, yes I am going to ask my psychologist about focusing more on tackling my thought processes. We do in every session, but I’ve found that I’ve always made the most progress when I’ve used this approach to the full. I’ve found, as I’m sure you have, that when you understand the pattern your thoughts take and how they simply just repeat over and over, you stop listening to the thoughts so much. I think I also need more positive affirmations to replace the negative thoughts I’m trying to get rid off.
My holiday was not the best, nothing to do with anxiety though, I’m pleased to say! Just situations and weather not going as planned, but it was good to have a break.
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 02 September 2006 : 13:26:10</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Glad to hear of your continuing progress but sorry to hear that your holiday was less than you'd hope it would be. It is always great to hear your updates and keep up the good work!
xo
Thanks Piglet and Axel...I hope you're both doing ok at the moment? Thanks for your continued support!
I've had another CBT since my last post, it wasnt the best of sessions as I was feeling quite low at the time. i seemed to have reached a standstill in my progress and hated it. i felt like everything had been going so well and that something was bound to go wrong sooner or later.
However I am pleased to report that (i seem) to be back on the road again. Today, I managed to get into town and I walked right through the shopping mall...I say walked, it was more of a half-run-half-walk, and I did not want to stop as whenever I did I felt the anxiety rise. However I did it, with no major panic, and shopping malls are my most dreaded places. I'm also finding paying for things now is fine, don't seem to freak out at all...unless it is in a place I really dislike (like supermarkets etc). There's lots more I've been doing which I'm pleased with too, so its all going ok at the moment...
I've also been offered some work experiance, which i missed at school for health reasons, and i'm jumping at the chance. so this is all real progress.
i've also ordered a claire weekes book and another one i cant remember the title off...i'm hoping they'll be helpful and just reinforce my therapy. I've been very aware that it becomes easy to slip into a more lazy attitude to the anxiety and suddenly find yourself 'not bothering' to confront the issues that still hold fear for you. So I am taking a fresh attack and not giving in...because when I dont work at it, I feel the anxiety creeping back in.
anyway I do hope you're all doing ok. thanks for reading and i'll update when i have any more news!
xxxxxxxxxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Keep your head up because life and progress always are filled with bumps along the way. Keep working and we will all get where we want to be. I'm glad you got some books to reinforce what you are learning in your sessions because I found them to be great allies while I was in my group and still refer back to them all the time.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote"> I've been very aware that it becomes easy to slip into a more lazy attitude to the anxiety and suddenly find yourself 'not bothering' to confront the issues that still hold fear for you.
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 25 September 2006 : 19:11:29</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I'm afraid this is just how I have been lately - I seem to have more things that are interesting to do at the moment and don't cause me stress, so they take priority [:I]:D.
I am going/trying to take myself in hand!
Keep going Munch hun, like Alex says there are always bumps in the road to navigate :D
Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Hi Munchkin
Ive just stumbled over this thread and am rivetted with interest! Im undergoing CBT myself but am a way behind you. You seem to be making really good progress, its so encouraging. Im looking forward to reading more.
Keep it up!
KathXX
Thank you for the replies…piglet and axel, how are you both doing? Axel, you are so right about the books…have you tried one called ‘What to say when you talk to yourself’ by Shad Helmstetter? Would really recommend it.
And Kathy, good to see you here! Hows the CBT going? Great to hear that you’ve started with it, I really hope it can help you! Would love to hear how your getting along.
So to an update. Well I’m now having CBT every three weeks, sometimes two (depending on how I feel I’m coping). This is why my updates are not so regular…I’ve not gone AWOL!
Since my last update, I have been out to eat a proper meal, inside a busy bar/restaurant and didn’t panic once! I was quite amazed, as the person I had the meal with, was not someone I’ve known long…but somehow this seemed to help rather than hinder! I think it sort of signified that my life is moving forward, that I’m doing new things and with new people…so I was very pleased. I’m now more than happy to get in cars with friends etc, whereas before being out with anyone other than a family member was just impossible for me.
I can now wonder round shops with much more confidence….the old checkouts are still causing a few problems, but only in bigger shops. Small ones are fine now.
I’m also managing to get out in the evenings on the odd occasion. This was always a bigger deal for me, because I tended to feel worse then, and just wanted to stay at home. Plus I’d be tired and couldn’t face the deluge of anxiety. Going into places with new people or a new loud, busy situation, doesn’t bother me half as much. though the anxiety is still pretty bad beforehand.
I’ve also noticed that getting to church and having to sit through the service is getting slightly easier the more I do it…I say slightly because I still have my moments where I freak out.
I’m finding Claire weekes book very good indeed…and am trying to ‘float’ with the anxiety….though as I’m sure so many of you know, this is not easy and takes practise.
I think the major thing that has helped me, and my confidence to grow, is that I do not fear this retched anxiety anymore. I understand what is happening to me, and although during a major panic, I still get scared by the symptoms, on a day to day basis I cope a lot better with it. Even during the panic times, I know that it cannot harm me…if I can build on this then I should continue to move along.
I’m also trying to accept who I am…and not try to change to constantly impress others. If I can manage this, then the fear of ‘what will others think of me’ should ease because I’ll be more ‘who cares what others think of me? I am what I am’! easier said than done…
I also have a small job now…only a couple of hours a week. Doing some admin work…my first day on Wednesday went very well and I was confident of my ability (one of the positive affirmations I’ve been telling myself for months seems to be sinking in!).
At the moment I’m happy. My life has turned around so much this year, its actually hard to process it all. In fact the other morning I woke and it all suddenly hit me…I felt like it had all been a dream and the reality of it all made me panic briefly! I just thought ‘this is not me! my life cannot be this much better!’…but it is!
I will continue to update when I have news…and I would recommend Claire weekes books to everyone! Thank you for reading as always!
xxxxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Oh Munch you do sound good hun.:D
Congrats on the new little job - how fantastic!
I always look out for your thread to see how you are going, as you know I can relate so closely to it.
I love Claire Weekes too - haven't quite mastered the floating either as yet but I am often trying! :D I also read the Shad book as Meg recommended it a long time ago to me. It is sooooo important the stuff we say to ourselves.
Your progress is great to read mate.
Love Piglet :)
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Thank you for the replies…piglet and axel, how are you both doing? Axel, you are so right about the books…have you tried one called ‘What to say when you talk to yourself’ by Shad Helmstetter? Would really recommend it.
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 20 October 2006 : 11:40:43</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Hi Munch, Piglet and a big welcome to Kathy. I'm doing pretty well but got a little anxious the past couple of days when I had a flu bug. Feeling better now but I always seem to regress some when I get sick. Does that happen to any of you? I have not read that book but will try and check it out thanks! I like the books by Claire Weekes but the thing that has helped me the most thus far is doing the tea form exercises from the book by Sam Obitz. I try to do them everyday when I can and feel better when I am doing them regularly. They always help me get out of my head and on with my life.
Anyway, great to hear from all of you and best of luck to you Kathy. I hope cbt helps you as much as it has helped me.
nomorepanic
20-10-06, 20:57
Wow Munch
What a busy bunny you have been and look at all those fab achievements:D[^]
A HUGE well done to you and it so lovely to see that a life can be turned around like yours has.
Fab news and I am so pleased for you[Wow!][Yeah!]
xx
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
Nicola
Axel where can I get that Sam Obitz book you recommend?
Love Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Thank you piglet and nicola for your continued support, how are you both? I always feel like its about me all the time, and I do care about others progress as well!...and axel, sorry to hear you had a few bad days....and yes my anxiety is always worse when I am ill, so you are not alone. I hope you are feeling a lot better now. And I would ask the same question as Piglet, where can I get the Sam Obitz book, do you know if its for sale in the UK?
Anyway I have a brief update, as today I attempted flooding, as I previously discussed here...
I said I would do it! Basically I went through the checkouts at sainsburys three times in a row…the first time, using numbers to rate my anxiety, I was about a 9, really bad…after I’d gone through and went back into the store, the anxiety had dropped to about a 6 and then gained up to about 7 when I reached the checkouts again.
The third time was a lot better…I was reaching the point of ‘oh, I couldn’t care less’, and my anxiety was the lowest at that checkout than it had ever been at a supermarket checkout before…About a 5-6 I would say. I then went and queued at the newsagent section for a mobile top-up and, despite the queue being extremely long, I didn’t fuss at all.
I most certainly should have kept on going until my anxiety was non-existent, however I was pleased that I did what I did and on such a busy day as a Friday. It proved to me that anxiety does subside….and the memory of a good experience today is helping to take away my fear of supermarkets.
I also practised the Claire Weekes ‘floating’ method, trying to ‘willingly except’ the anxiety and NOT fight it…with some success and when I did manage to float, it worked! It really did. Plus just understanding the symptoms and the pattern they take helps to take the roar out of them.
I still have issues with checkouts, but will continue to practise as I feel this is the only way. Claire Weekes says that your recovery lies in the places and situations you fear the most. And the more I do, the more true this becomes. plus to look at those ‘dreaded’ places you fear the most, as actually holding the key to your recovery, helps you to look at them more positively.
xxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">I said I would do it! Basically I went through the checkouts at sainsburys three times in a row…the first time, using numbers to rate my anxiety, I was about a 9, really bad…after I’d gone through and went back into the store, the anxiety had dropped to about a 6 and then gained up to about 7 when I reached the checkouts again.
The third time was a lot better…I was reaching the point of ‘oh, I couldn’t care less’, and my anxiety was the lowest at that checkout than it had ever been at a supermarket checkout before…About a 5-6 I would say. I then went and queued at the newsagent section for a mobile top-up and, despite the queue being extremely long, I didn’t fuss at all.
xxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 27 October 2006 : 18:21:37</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
You can't see or hear but I am clapping, very big loud claps (the sort that make your hands sting)!!! :D:D:D
You are blinkin marvel and a really great inspiration!
Piglet x
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
nomorepanic
27-10-06, 19:34
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Thank you piglet and nicola for your continued support, how are you both? I always feel like its about me all the time, and I do care about others progress as well
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Munchkin - I am fine thanks for asking. It is supposed to be about you as it is your post and your recovery and we love to read all your successes. :D:D
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote"> And I would ask the same question as Piglet, where can I get the Sam Obitz book, do you know if its for sale in the UK? </td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Try this post ....
CBT/The Obitz book/tea forms (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4250)
Huge well done for today. You proved that you can do it and the anxiety does get less each time. You will get loads more practice soon with the Xmas shopping coming up haha.
Great news and stick at it ok - you are doing fab![Wow!][Yeah!]
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
Nicola
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">Axel where can I get that Sam Obitz book you recommend?
Love Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
<div align="right">Originally posted by Piglet - 20 October 2006 : 22:12:25</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I just went to the website and copied the link to the order page for the book by sam obitz
http://www.supertao.com/order_book.html
I would say it is an entry level book to cbt (it is a thin book) with a good overview of the process from a patients perspective. I found it encouraging and the tea form exercise is the thing I took from it that has really helped me in my daily life. They are easy to do and keep you in the moment and cut my worries off before they take over me.
Is that quote at the end one you have always used because I just noticed it now and that is kind of what a tea form does for me, takes away away from my irrational worries :)
I hope this finds you well!
Munch this is all great news! You are making great progress and it will gradually build on itself. Thanks for letting me know illness wreaks havoc on you too. I was starting to freak out a bit about it, but now that I am feeling better physically I am doing 1000% better.
Keep up the good work!
Hi Munchkin
Ive not been around for a while, it was great to pop back and see what you have been up to. Im really impressed by all the work you have done, its a real inspiration.
Im not sure how my CBT is going really. Although the physical anxiety symptoms are much reduced/almost non-existent, the thoughts are still there. They arent as numerous as they used to be, and they dont have the same physical effect on me. So thats good. My CBT homework tends to be about writing things down - lists of trigger points, making timelines etc. This week I have been unable to do it and it caused me a lot of upset. He asked me to write down a timeline for the next 10 years, listing out what I thought I might be doing each year, what my kids would be doing, and what my physical state might be like. For the first time I have found that I physically cannot do it, for me its like counting down the hours till I die, and feeling like I have to plan every minute out or I will waste it. I suppose when I tell him I cant do it he wont mind but Im scared he will give me something else to do that will scare me.
I used to be like you, I just felt like fainting in supermarkets, especially the checkouts, but Im not sure why. Im totally ok with it now except in one or two specific places, TopShop is a real difficult one for me, I have no idea why!
Nowadays I might have a couple of weeks where I feel great, then I have a setback, and each time it happens the disappointment is more cruel than the last although I know it shouldnt be. I keep hoping each time I feel good that I wont have another setback or that it will go after a day, but when it sticks around for a week Im practically suicidal. Im not sure how much more my marriage can stand, my poor husband has a stressful job and worries of his own.
Keep up the good work
KathXX
Thanks for the replies everyone...sorry for the long delay in my reply, I'm not online very often nowadays.
Axel, and nicola also, thanks loads for the book info. i'm going to look into that. i've just finished the claire weekes book and have found that a huge help, although i do have to refer back to it often to keep the 'message' in my head.
Kath, thanks for your encouraging words, but i was sorry to hear you were struggling when you last posted...everything you said I could relate to...especially the setbacks part. this is hard for all of us i know...but the more setbacks you come through the more your confidence will grow, because you'll know you can handle them. and setbacks themselves are recovery, because you couldnt have a setback if you hadnt made progress! its hard to think this way when your going through it, i know. it does sound as if your making brilliant progress, and i still battle with my thoughts too, every day....they are the hardest thing to overcome. I hope things pick up for you soon...you are among people who really do understand so dont feel alone.
i have anonther CBT appt this thurs and will update properly then.
hoping your all doing ok...? xxxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
nomorepanic
11-11-06, 11:26
Munchkin
Hiya - good to see you again.
Look forward to the update next week
Good luck!
Nicola
People will forget what you said
People will forget what you did
But people will never forget how you made them feel
:)
Piglet x
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Hey there!
Well I hope everything with you guys is going ok…
In terms of update…well, I’m not sure theres a huge amount to say. I have been continuing to make steady progress, and don’t seem to have suffered any setbacks. This is especially good, as winter is my dreaded time of the year, due to the fact that everywhere I go I have no choice but to be indoors and face my fear…plus usually I always feel far more stressed out at this time of year.
This does not seem to be happening however this year, and I find that the only places I’m not avoiding are shopping malls…and supermarkets are still not on my list of favourites! I’ve come to realise though that I have to face these places repeatedly, but I do feel more confident to do this now, and the techniques I have to cope need to be used after all.
I’m doing 100% more than I was this time last year…but am aware that my progress is becoming, yet again, a big stagnant…so I do plan more outings to keep on at it. I’d also like to attempt a bus ride before too long.
I spoke to my psychologist about something that baffled me the other week. I’d been on Sunday to three, yes three, baptisms in our church. There were hundreds there, and I was right up the front and didn’t have one major panic at all.
A few days later, I went to a quiet coffee shop with a friend for a drink and my anxiety went wild. I couldn’t understand why something so simple, compared to the church service, would throw me.
we looked into it and it helped me to see that when I’d gone out with my friend, the pressure I put upon myself to cope and not ‘let her down’ in that situation was the root cause, rather than in church where there was no such pressure. If I’d wanted to leave in the church situation, I could have done so, without feeling I’d personally ‘let anyone down’…obviously with my friend the difference was the pressure I put upon myself to ‘cope’ and make sure that my friend ‘had a good time’ (I always seem to take this responsibility…as if I’m an entertainer or something).
Also this coffee shop has so many bad memories of previous panic, it didn’t help either. Now I understand this, its helped me and hopefully will make a difference in the future. It is so true though, that places that you’ve had panic in before automatically bring it back when you next visit…memory is always the killer..agh
anyway that’s all for now, still having CBT every three weeks now, so will update whenever I have news.
Thanks as always for the support!
xxxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Hi Munchkin,
just read the posts in your thread which are very interesting. I wish I had taken the time to read it all through before (except I had the concentration of a goldfish and anything longer than a paragraph stumped me!) So much of what has been said by you or others is like an echo of how I think or worry about. The whole worrying about what others think of me or how they see me, being perplexed as to why I can be cool in one situation but in a blind panic at a seemingly less stressful one, being down after facing matters brought about by CBT.
I have also been receiving CBT on a 1-1 but I am a good bit behind you in progress. However, I feel the depressive side of my illness is lifting a bit and I feel a bit more able to take on board the CBT.
I have spent so much time being scared of everything, seen very little positive way forward sometimes and added almost daily to my list of anxieties that it is great to read that you have done and are still doing so well.
Thank you for the opportunity to feed on a positive story, which has helped instill in me a bit of confidence for the future.
Happyone
x
I am always drawn to this thread not just because I find it an inspirational one but because so much of what is said here could be me talking.
Kathy and Happyone you two both said stuff I could have said too. Particularly about set backs - I find these so destroying at times!
I think the whole basis of my panic is about how other people view me and I guess I want to be in control of that and I can't. How to let go of this and not care is really my biggest challange. I will keep reading to see how you all progress because it really helps me.
:D:D:D:D
Love Piglet xx
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
happyone, thanks for the post. its always encouraging to hear from others how their CBT is progressing, and of course it always helps us in not feeling so alone, that there are others out there who face the same battles and struggles. do keep us updated on your progress if you have time :)
piglet, i could so relate to your last post...about the whole 'controlling how others see you' issue. I am exactly the same...I seem to think when i'm out and feeling in a panic that everyone is so interested in me and what i'm doing...when in reality eveyone is too busy with themselves.
I think a huge part of letting go of how important others opinions of you are, is actually learning to be happy with who you are. and accept who you are...warts and all! I feel i'm making headway with this, but its so hard because i've never liked who i am. I do find that if you can honestly learn to say to youself (and mean it) that 'I know who I am, and I'm happy with that' then what others thinks really does not matter anymore. its all about self-confidence i guess... though its easier said than done i know!!!
also, why is it that we always just assume that others think bad and negative stuff about us?! they might just be thinking something wonderful...! its a thought to ponder on i guess!
xx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
I think a huge part of letting go of how important others opinions of you are, is actually learning to be happy with who you are. and accept who you are...warts and all! I feel i'm making headway with this, but its so hard because i've never liked who i am. I do find that if you can honestly learn to say to youself (and mean it) that 'I know who I am, and I'm happy with that' then what others thinks really does not matter anymore. its all about self-confidence i guess... though its easier said than done i know!!!
also, why is it that we always just assume that others think bad and negative stuff about us?! they might just be thinking something wonderful...! its a thought to ponder on i guess!
xx
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 22 November 2006 : 14:29:02</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
Yes it is a thought to ponder on!!
You know I keep getting glimmers of accepting who I am and it feels so near but just out of reach if you know what I mean. I think I have come as far as quite liking myself but just not far enough!! I guess that is why I do like my own company quite alot, cos me and me quite like each other :D:D:D and have a bit of a laugh!!
Love Piglet x
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Piglet,
you said there ' I think I have come as far as quite liking myself but just not far enough!! '
Wow! That sums it up! I have got as far as liking me, but having faith inothers liking me is another matter, if you see what I mean?
Happyone
x
Yes hun I totally do!!
Perhaps if we get to like ourselves more and more over time and feel it right to the very core then others judgements of us won't seem so important or relevant?? Wow how lovely to be that secure :D
Piglet x
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
Perhaps if we get to like ourselves more and more over time and feel it right to the very core then others judgements of us won't seem so important or relevant?? Wow how lovely to be that secure :D
Piglet x
<div align="right">Originally posted by Piglet - 25 November 2006 : 00:17:21</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I'll back that 100%! Exactly what I think too...and with time and work, i'm sure that frame of mind, and security, can be reached.
xxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
LickeyEndBlues
27-11-06, 19:14
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
Perhaps if we get to like ourselves more and more over time and feel it right to the very core then others judgements of us won't seem so important or relevant?? Wow how lovely to be that secure :D
Piglet x
<div align="right">Originally posted by Piglet - 25 November 2006 : 00:17:21</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I'll back that 100%! Exactly what I think too...and with time and work, i'm sure that frame of mind, and security, can be reached.
xxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 27 November 2006 : 17:59:17</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I am so hoping to reach that state!!
Iain
What's so funny about peace, love and understanding?
Right well we all know what we have to do then - lets synchronise watches!!
Rendevous at 18.00hrs 27/11/07 to see if objective achieved!! :D:D:D:D
If not then bugger it and lets all have a jammy doughnut!
Piglet :)
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
<b id="quote">quote:</b id="quote"><table border="0" id="quote"><tr id="quote"><td class="quote" id="quote">
Perhaps if we get to like ourselves more and more over time and feel it right to the very core then others judgements of us won't seem so important or relevant?? Wow how lovely to be that secure :D
Piglet x
<div align="right">Originally posted by Piglet - 25 November 2006 : 00:17:21</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I'll back that 100%! Exactly what I think too...and with time and work, i'm sure that frame of mind, and security, can be reached.
xxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
<div align="right">Originally posted by Munchkin - 27 November 2006 : 17:59:17</div id="right">
</td id="quote"></tr id="quote"></table id="quote">
I think I am nearing this point in my recovery but I have to constantly remind myself that I cannot control what others think so I concentrate on countering my inaccurate thoughts and in this way I am learning not to let others judgements affect me so much and not jump to conclusions about what others are thinking so often anymore.
Hey everyone, thought I’d do a quick update before Christmas!
Axel…really pleased to read you are making progress still. It really is so encouraging to see that it is possible to not let our old thought/behaviour patterns creep back in. I know it’s a constant battle, but I’m finding with time, it all becomes so much more natural.
I’m really pleased to report that I’m still making good progress, despite now being in the winter, which has typically been my time of great relapse in the past. But I’m still on the way up! Yesterday I had a Christmas meal with a friend, and although I had a few flashes of panic, I managed to see them through. I was so pleased that I’ve arranged another meal with two friends for next week.
I still always find the anxiety is as its worst before I go out to do something. The anticipation is always the killer for me. but I try to remind myself what Claire Weekes says about anticipation and how if your anxiety is the worst BEFORE you do something, and you can cope with that, as I always do, then you can cope with whatever comes next. And its true, plus once you get out, its never as bad as you think it will be.
I can go round supermarkets now with my anxiety never above about a 6. it used to be a 10 plus…so although I still have a way to go, I’m getting there. I’ve yet to tackle shopping malls…though I don’t think this time of year is really the best to try this!
I also got on a day trip the other weekend to see a friend, fair amount of travelling etc. and it was the first time I got a good nights sleep beforehand…and I felt in control throughout the day. . it was the first time I’d done this trip and not found it overwhelming…or a ‘big deal’, which I guess shows I’m seeing things more clearly.
Anyway I’d like to wish everyone who reads, whether they’ve ever posted or not, a very Happy Christmas and a better 2007 for everyone. I know when your in the storm of anxiety its hard to see a way out, but there really is a way through. I was totally hopeless this time last year but with hard work Im reaching the point I never thought I could. And anyone else can do the same. I’m nothing special, and theres so many others out there who have overcome too, so don’t give up hope.
I really appreciate all the support of those who have been faithfully reading and I will update in the new year!
xxxxxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Munch I was only just thinking about you yesterday and wondering how progress is going!!! Spooky!! :D:D:D
I'm plodding along and I'm managing a few little Christmas shopping trips which I am pleased about. I am sticking to the nearest small town rather than the bigger towns and going later on in the day (love my darkness don't I - I must be the only person alive who would find living in Norway/Sweden brilliant at the moment :D). So progress is being made albeit slowly!!
Mate I hope you have a very Merry Christmas and a super duper New Year.
Piglet xx :D:D:D:D:D:D
"Supposing a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?" said Piglet.
"Supposing it didn't," said Pooh after careful thought.
Munchkin, hi there, may I ask a question:
I've noticed that your post started around March 06 and if I'm reading you correctly, as of Dec you're still troubled by these symptoms.
Have you been undergoing CBT regularly for the last 10 months?
Without wishing to 'put my foot in it' as a newbie here, that sounds like a long time to resolve something.
100% no offence meant, just trying to understand further
Regards
Brian
Hi Munch Piglet and everyone and happy new year to you all.
bb01234 if you read through a lot of munch's posts you will see that it has a lot more exposure type exercises in her treatment and a lot less of the pure thought countering exercises that I learned in my group and this may be what accounts for the length of her treatment. My group was much shorter and focussed heavily on the thought countering exercises like the tea form and encouraged us to keep using them once the group was over and it has benefitted me greatly. You sound like someone who has already gone through cbt and I am curious to hear more about your experience? We used the book by Sam Obitz in my group and the overview of the entire process was very encouraging to me and I recommend it to most everyone. Please tell us/me more about your cbt experience and welcome to the boards.
hey all,
thanks for the replies. I am sorry I’ve not been on here for a while to answer back more quickly…
I’m really happy to say that my first ‘update’ of the new year is a good one! I’ve done so much lately, and my anxiety really seems to be ‘under control’. Not to say that I don’t struggle in some situations still, but I don’t feel that it controls me anymore, and my confidence is growing a lot.
I actually went into a shopping mall the other week with a friend. we only went into one shop, but my anxiety didn’t rise above a 5…which has just blown me away. Before whenever I used to even think about a shopping mall, I used to feel panicky and imagine how awful it would be. But I seem to be more positive about things in general now and this is having a knock on affect.
It’s a battle though, and there are some days when for no reason at all my anxiety creeps back in. but I’m going through checkouts now, in some of my previously most dreaded shops, and just get on with it. I think repetition is the biggest help to me personally, because doing these things now feels more ‘normal’. I can also go out for meals now without a major panic, where before that was a main trigger for me because I used to feel so ‘trapped’. Actually as I type this, I suddenly realise that I’ve not felt trapped in a long time…and as corny as it sounds, I do feel far more free now.
And piglet! I was delighted to read if your progress, I’m just sorry I didn’t reply in the same year as you posted! I do apologise, and may I say that your not the only one who prefers the dark…I am the same!! I don’t know what it is…but somehow things don’t seem to overwhelming when it’s darker…strange I know. I’m hoping your Christmas and new year went well??
And axel, happy new year to you too. and thanks for your post. You are right in what you say regarding bb0123’s post.
Talking of that…Bb0123, thanks for your comments, you didn’t ‘put your foot’ in it at all. and you are right, my treatment has lasted a long time. This is because my progress has been slow, but sure. My therapist realised that putting me under pressure to achieve certain things, was not helping me, and when I was allowed to work at my own pace, I found I moved a lot faster. The thing that has helped me the most, as I said earlier is repetition and gradual exposure, teamed with slowly changing the way I think and handle the anxiety when it comes. I’m someone who is very good at realising what I have to do, but sometimes I’m pretty slow at actually doing it! and some of the things I’ve had to tackle, in terms of my negative thoughts, have been quite deep-seated and therefore taken time to change. Another point to note is that my therapist uses a technique called ‘existential’…which is basically guiding the patient in the right direction to help them realise things for themselves. I’ve found that this has been key in my recovery because things ‘sink in more’ when you find them yourself and are not just told how to think.
Understanding the path anxiety follows is a really hard lesson, and actually getting to the point of understanding so fully, that it doesn’t scare you anymore, is a hard place to reach as I’m sure many of you guys on here realise. I’m not even at that point, but I feel my therapy has been priceless and has helped me reach achieve more than I ever thought I could.
I only have my therapy every month now, whereas before it was weekly. And I’m hoping over the next few months to phase it out even more. Does that explanation help any? I hope so, and as axel said, please feel free to post of your experience if you want to.
Happy new year to you all and I’m hoping that 2007 will see in complete recovery for us all.
xx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Munch lovely to hear from you as always :D
Thought you may like to read this thread when you get time :D
I lay down on the pavement today! Progress report! (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15913)
Love Piglet xx
thanks for that link piglet...have replied to the topic...what a busy bee you've been! nice one!
xxxx
"A Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"
Hello everyone.:)
I am now coming to the end of my therapy, and have made so much progress that I feel its time to close this thread.
I still have obstacles to overcome, and I'm still working on these issues...however I can now get around supermarkets and even shopping malls fairly calmly. I don't feel I can add anything more helpful to this thread...and would probably just end up repeating myself (that's if I havent already!!).
So Id like to thank everyone who has supported me over these pages...its been a huge part of my recovery...just being able to type up my progress has helped me to see how far I've come.
I really hope that others reading this, who are maybe right now, in the same situation I was a year ago, will see that this sort of anxiety and phobia can be overcome with hard work.
As I said, I'm not 'cured' quite yet...but I'm getting there and finally feel like I'm moving the right direction.:yesyes:
I will certainly be around on the forums I am sure, as they are such a help.
Would love to hear how my 'regular readers' (!) are...you've helped me so much, and I do care how you're doing!
Thank yoooooou! xxxxx :hugs:
Hi ya honey,
Yes Munch I am plodding along slowly - now managing the shops several times a week in DAYLIGHT and done the dentist and optician in the last couple of months too.
Had visits from both Trac and Karen off here and generally feel more like giving things a go.
It's super to hear from you as always and I have always found this thread really inspirational so please don't disappear completely - I love to hear how you are getting on.
Massive well done on just how far you've come - it's been a pleasure to be part of the journey! :hugs:
Piglet :flowers:
nomorepanic
10-03-07, 17:14
I am so pleased you started the thread as it is something you can always look back on and see how far you progessed etc.
Well done on all your achievements and lovely to see you back here and thanks for the update.
Let us know how things go ok?
Aw, thank you piglet and nicola...your support has been much appreciated through this past year or so.
Piglet, I am so pleased to hear things are moving in the right direction for you...and a visit to the optician is something I can relate to...only last week I managed the same thing (in a shopping mall of all places) and I have to say was rather pleased with the experiance as my optician was somewhat gorgeous...made it all the more enjoyable!! ;)
Anyway now I am just rambling, but of course I will update on here every now and again, whenever I have any news.
Loving the new forums by the way, this place is such a lifeline and help to so many...
xxxxxxx
Hi,
This is an old thread, I thought it might help anyone who is thinking about trying CBT, or anyone who has just started it, or like me is waiting to be referred by their gp.
I found it really helpful. :) Anna x
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