View Full Version : the chemicals that cause panic
olderfella
23-10-10, 14:56
I have posted this for the people that dont know whats happening within their brain when having a panic attack hope this helps people understand
A Hypothetical Explanation of Panic Disorder
Copyright ã 2001 James Michael Howard and German Journal of Psychiatry 2001; 4: 40-42
Abstract: Panic attacks may result from severe reduction of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) in a person of low DHEA with normal or increased levels of cortisol. That is, an excessive ratio of cortisol to DHEA occurs which extinguishes the effects of unstable DHEA and magnifies the effects of cortisol. Prolactin increases during panic attacks and is correlated with attack severity. That is, prolactin increases to stimulate DHEA, but the response is inadequate to stabilize the DHEA to cortisol ratio and inhibit prolactin production. Therefore, prolactin remains elevated during an attack. Panic attacks occur when the effects of excessive cortisol excite prolactin stimulation of DHEA in a person who cannot respond with adequate DHEA
And?
I'm pretty sure most of us here know that something physical is triggered off by anxiety and panic - one doesn't have to be a neuro-scientist to realise this!
But this doesn't mean that we are powerless and have to succumb to our physical symptoms, because we don't!
And it also doesn't mean that we can hand our personal responsibility over and merely blame a physical reaction for our suffering, whilst popping pills and waiting for a miracle cure to be invented, because the physical is only part of the story.
I'm really sorry, but I can't help finding the reduction of the problem to the merely physical side of it not very helpful. And ultimately also somewhat irresponsible.
olderfella
23-10-10, 18:51
Well What!From the medical side why are we not asking our doctors for the medicine that can stop these actions,if i remeber correctly your the person that was giving it large about cbt and how people are negative towards their illness and after x amount of years cbt is your saviour nice if it works for you.What about all the people it doesnt work for are they to be left to suffer?Like a lot of people on here i tried various therapies at first they seemed to be having a positive effect due to funding in my area my therapy lasted 7weeks.Anxiety and panic soon returned at which point i was put on amitryptiline which helped for a while but bit by bit my medicine was increased to 170mg daily at which point i decided to seek out some answers,i was lucky enough to be find a website where this illness is discussed by people with a greater understanding of treating it than i have found in any gp,s surgery.I found a guy there that was agrophobic,sponteneous panicker and had suffered from gad most of his life,he then started studying medicine at home.Anyway this guy in the states was fed up of paying doctors and like most of us not getting lasting results so he started self medicating he now has a job and has been without gad and panic etc for more than two years.To get to the point the guy told me what he was taking,i took the list to my doctors and she read it looked something up in the bnf and told me the guy was spot on with what he had told me.I was prescribed two of the three medicines which i started more than three weeks ago the third and last medicine will be prescribed on tuesday.Since i have started these meds i have never felt so good my anxiety is nil my mood is good and i feel l;ike my old confident self after three years,i may have a long way to go but i am pretty certain i have turned a corner and instead of telling people they are negative i would like to help people if i can.No i cant say my meds will work for everyone just the same as cbt doesnt work for everyone but i wont put people down with arrogance has you have in the past.Last week one member posted on here something similar to my post on how the doctor had told her what chemical reactions in the brain caused panic etc so why am irresponsible for posting something written by someone who practices Psychiatry, some members may not know what is causing it some may not wish to but there are those that want to know especialy new members and if cbt is so good why did it take you years to discover it.
olderfella > "why am irresponsible"
Because by merely focussing on the physical side of it you are taking away your personal responsibility in this, as you are projecting said responsibility regarding the problem on to the brain/hormones/an imbalance in the brain, or whatever, which is not just totally one-sided, but also totally counter-productive and ultimately dis-empowering. What this attitude is basically doing is creating a victim mentality.
And granted, you - or anybody else following this line - are of course entitled to turn yourself into a victim and I can't keep you from doing this, nor do I want to, because (I assume) you are a grown adult and as such responsible for yourself.
When it comes down to advocating and peddling this victim mentality on a public forum like this, however, I will speak up against it and at least try and put it into some perspective, as this is a public forum, and not your own personal domain.
olderfella
23-10-10, 19:28
What ever, my argument is that you seem to think that people taking medication are lesser mortals than you well your wrong,i dont care what opinion you voice,do you take paracetamol for headaches,antibiotics for infection or are you such an immortal being from planet zorb that you can recover without them.Well im sorry but some of us cant:)
First, thanks for the info, Olderfella. I think it can only be a good thing to get information on all aspects - whether brain mechanisms, meds, therapy, exercise etc.
"i took the list to my doctors and she read it looked something up in the bnf and told me the guy was spot on with what he had told me.I was prescribed two of the three medicines which i started more than three weeks ago the third and last medicine will be prescribed on tuesday."
Ok, I'm intrigued! What meds are these?
Thanks
Dahlia
olderfella
23-10-10, 19:51
The medicines and amounts are as follows there is nothing secret or special its how the three work together
Escitalopram 20mg - SSRI, didn't like citalopram
Nebivolol 5mg bid - β1 blocker, I've just started this but it feels just as effective as propranolol
Candesartan 4mg bid - angiotensin receptor blocker, shown to block lactate induced panic attacks, reduces plasma epinephrine
European
You are that sharp you may cut yourself. I think you need to calm it fella, I know you don't agree with meds, but like it or not, it allows many people to live "easier".
May I suggest you are a little more open to other people's coping techniques?
The medicines and amounts are as follows there is nothing secret or special its how the three work together
Escitalopram 20mg - SSRI, didn't like citalopram
Nebivolol 5mg bid - β1 blocker, I've just started this but it feels just as effective as propranolol
Candesartan 4mg bid - angiotensin receptor blocker, shown to block lactate induced panic attacks, reduces plasma epinephrine
Thanks Olderfella. I don't think beta blockers are right for me, as my key horrible symptom of panic is nausea. I don't really notice any of the other symptoms - and my doc said it won't even touch nausea.
I am going to look into Candesartan. Sounds like your doc is similar to mine - very open minded and willing to work with you.
Thanks again
olderfella
23-10-10, 20:05
Your very welcome Dahlia and so is anyone else who wants to approach their doctor i hope it can bring relief to you as it has me and quite a few others good luck:D
European
You are that sharp you may cut yourself. I think you need to calm it fella, I know you don't agree with meds, but like it or not, it allows many people to live "easier".
May I suggest you are a little more open to other people's coping techniques?
I have nothing against medication, but I don't like a victim mentality, for obvious reasons.
I think it is telling that nobody here is actually engaging in a discussion, but merely being very, very defensive.
As for "coping techniques" - some people turn to alcohol, others to drugs, and others still to suicide. Which is understandable and I can empathise - but would this really make a coping technique constructive and helpful? I don't think so. And where, if not here in an open forum, could we possibly discuss these kind of things?
I also believe it to be a false kindness that mollycoddles and thus encourages someone indirectly into their victim mentality - it smacks more of pity than it actually shows any respect....
I have nothing against medication, but I don't like a victim mentality, for obvious reasons.
I think it is telling that nobody here is actually engaging in a discussion, but merely being very, very defensive.
As for "coping techniques" - some people turn to alcohol, others to drugs, and others still to suicide. Which is understandable and I can empathise - but would this really make a coping technique constructive and helpful? I don't think so. And where, if not here in an open forum, could we possibly discuss these kind of things?
I also believe it to be a false kindness that mollycoddles and thus encourages someone indirectly into their victim mentality - it smacks more of pity than it actually shows any respect....
You can't end a "victim mentality" by being hostile. I do agree with some of the things you write - just not your style - which in my opinion is causing people to be "defensive".
European
The pinnacle of anxiety treatment has not been identified to one source. That is to say that there is not one cure that will suffice for all.
If that was the case, then we would all be cured, for minds greater than ours (and even yours) would have pinpointed this and distributed it to us all.
This is not the point though. The point is your attitude on NMP.
We are impressed with your obvious intellect, but may I request you use it in a more positive and less agressive manner
Jaco
You can't end a "victim mentality" by being hostile. I do agree with some of the things you write - just not your style - which in my opinion is causing people to be "defensive".
I'm sorry, but I believe that even if I - or anybody! - spoke with the voice of an angel, certain people would not like somebody else pointing at the fact that a victim mentality is ultimately self-defeating and destructive.
Should the issue therefore be brushed under the rug? I don't think so.
olderfella
23-10-10, 21:11
So just run that by me again,if we try to find a medication to stop our symptoms instead of finding a better coping technique we are victims?Taking medication is not the same as taking to alcohol,just wish you would get off your high horse and remember we are all individuals and what works for one does not mean it will work for all, i find your self righteuos preaching monotonous bullsh*t why do you have to be so critical your not trying to help people your trying to make them victims of your mental bullying
Should the issue therefore be brushed under the rug? I don't think so.
Sure, but I think ramming it down their throats is worse personally.
How about if/when you come off it though? Or do you intend to stay on it for the rest of your life? Symptoms of anxiety/panic aren't "cured" by taking ad's :( Don't you think that "sooner or later" we must look at the underlying causes of our anxiety?
olderfella
23-10-10, 21:29
I do agree that we should try and find the underlying cause of our anxiety but till i find the answers i will continue taking medication as it makes my life bareable
olderfella > "if we try to find a medication to stop our symptoms instead of finding a better coping technique we are victims?"
No, but to exclusively rely on medication, because it is the easiest option and allows shirking personal responsibility (as everything is exclusively seen as a physical matter, so, other than taking pills, what could one do?), whilst rejecting and denigrating all other options, particularly the psychological ones - THAT sounds to me pretty much like a victim mentality.
I have nothing against medication, but there is a fine line between using it to one's advantage, or to end up in a much bigger mess on account of it, and prolong the suffering for years, if not decades. I've been there myself, and have witnessed it with others time and time again - and it does upset me! You don't have to take my word for it, but I have yet to meet a single person who has been 'cured' by medication.
And "ramming" this point down anybody's throat is pretty insubstantial. After all, we all have to bear the consequences of our decisions, some of which are constructive, others are less constructive, and some are downright destructive.
Life's what you make it - ultimately, it all boils down to this. And most of us are by far not as helpless as we sometimes like to think. That's all I'm trying to say.
ladybird64
23-10-10, 22:44
Why on earth have we regressed to this "victim mentality" codswallop again European?
I find what you have to say interesting, as I mentioned before, I am not closed minded. But I find your level of arrogance quite staggering when you choose to ignore the fact that you yourself spent more than 10 years before you found your cure and think that it's ok to repeatedly say that people have a victim mentality?
How do you know where any of the people on this forum will be in a month, a year, ten years? You cannot possibly know and to cast aspertions on those who are trying to find their own way is wrong and I think you know it.
There is nothing wrong with discussing matters on an open forum, I totally agree with that and as I have said, I find some of your views interesting and I agree up to a certain point.
But I do find some of your posts narrow minded and unecessarily harsh, you yourself appear to be guilty of putting people here into categories..those on long term meds are "shirking personal responsibility", the same for those who are not ready or able to go into therapy..you are being unfair by not giving people a chance.
It is bad enough being given labels by those who don't have the same difficulties as we do but labels being bandied about by someone who spent ten years on and off meds looking for an answer?
I find that so very sad.
I wonder why so many people are afraid to face their fears head-on? Antidepressants do tend to be too much of a crutch in these days of "quick-fixes", and people always expecting someone else to give them the answer they're searching for... could we not maybe search a little harder ourselves, and find our own answers? Do we not need to be a bit braver?
Hi people, just returned after nearly a year:D
Can see both sides of this argument and agree the points could've been put more tactfully. I personally haven't taken meds to cope with my anx/panic/agoraphobia due to suffering terrible withdrawal symptoms for nearly 2yrs when I weaned of diazepam.
Some people need the help of drugs to cope, other's swear by therapy. For me, it was learning all I could about what was happening to me and mastering different techniques. I then realised it didn't matter what had caused my anxiety, I now suffered with it and now knew how to deal with it. And yes, you do have to be brave, when you are terrified to walk out of your front door on your own or, terrified to get into a car and stop yourself jumping out while it is moving (as you had done before), you have to be brave. You also have to find your sense of humor again and learn to laugh about things as I did. So what if I jumped up out of my seat at a resturant and shouted like a maniac that I needed a fag while running for the door and hubby having to chase after me, leaving my sister and brother in law to foot the bill (the look on her face was priceless!) and all the other times I panicked and took of screaming like a maniac. Don't waste your time worrying about being embarrassed it won't kill you, nor will a panic attack or any of the horrible symptoms you experience. Learn, believe and do, that is how you live with anxiety and phobias and then ENJOY.:yesyes:
:bighug1::bighug1:to you all
diane
I wonder why so many people are afraid to face their fears head-on? Antidepressants do tend to be too much of a crutch in these days of "quick-fixes", and people always expecting someone else to give them the answer they're searching for... could we not maybe search a little harder ourselves, and find our own answers? Do we not need to be a bit braver?
What's braver got to do with it?
Right here is the news, in simple terms (it's like attempts for the Booker prize this thread). You go to the GP, you are diagnosed with anxiety, you are expecting help. GP has 5 or 10 mins, he offers meds, it's the quickest way to get you feeling better. You take meds. Chances are the GP does not even discuss therapy due to the length of time it takes to work and the horrendous waiting lists and shortage of practitioners.
Bravery does not even come into it.
In my humble opinion, yes take meds to get you to a level were you can get more benefit from therapy. However, if you take meds, they work, you are happy to stay on them?, then stay on them, it's an individuals choice.
Why people get so uptight about others taking meds is beyond me, if you don't fancy taking them, don't take them, no one is ramming them down your throat.
But if someone wants to take meds (or even has to, like bi-polar etc) then it's not a sign of weakness, it's not that they are not brave enough, it's just another type of treatment.
And if I know one thing about anxiety, we are all different and respond different to treatment. I can't take meds due to intolerance to SSRI's I found therapy ok, but found exercise better. Some people have CBT and swear by it. Some have CBT and it does nothing for them. Some people have talk therapy and end up feeling worse.
In summary, do what works for you, simples ;)
Morning Jaco, again that's your opinion... As everyone gives on here. I have been on and off so many different ad's in the last 17 years since my son was born... my problem has always been once I come off them. If your problem is a brain chemistry imbalance every time you come off you will be back to square one... I now suffer with horrific PTSD, which has only helped me to realize that I personally need to "be braver" and learn to understand and recognize my fears. I believe that ad's interfere with our brain and physical chemistry, and in the long-run probably do cause more problems for an already weakened body to cope with.
I meant being braver in the sense of facing our fears, rather than trying to run from them, as we are doing when we take ad's... I wonder why I am not entitled to believe this? It is my experience, and so shouldn't it be valid?
At no point did I tell you what you are an not entitled to be believe, I do believe ;).
I am merely pointing out that a sufferer is guided by the GP, we rarely question them, we take their advice if they offer meds (which they do, as 1 - 4 prescribed drugs are anti-depressants).
All SSRI's do, is stop the synapes in the brain from mopping up serotonin too quickly, the chemical messenger serotonin, is then present in the brain for longer, and hence, can ease anxiety etc etc all well researched stuff.
Do they cause problems to the mind in the long run? Well I would like to read the evidence of studies to prove this either way. But, if I was an anxious med taker, reading this thread, statements like that would ruin my otherwise peaceful Sunday morning :)
It's a long long debate, that's been played here many times, but the conclusion is always the same, you pay's your money and you take your choice.
Next people will be telling me wine & kebabs have a negative effect on the body.
Who do you assume would be afraid to face their own fears? Where is your research into this conclusion? Or are you merely assuming that people who have to take medication are running away from their fears?
How about people who have to wait more than 18 months for therapy (as I have) and have no other option but to accept medication for PTSD. If that makes e weak and hiding from my fears I guess I'll have to deal with that. Thankfully though, not everyone is as simplistic and closed minded as to pigeonhole the millions of people who have to take medication for whatever reason, so I think I'll carry on with what I'm doing, taking medication, which has made a vast difference to me in a short space of time and wait for the elusive therapy..... unless someone wants to offer to pay of course :winks:
I wonder why so many people are afraid to face their fears head-on? Antidepressants do tend to be too much of a crutch in these days of "quick-fixes", and people always expecting someone else to give them the answer they're searching for... could we not maybe search a little harder ourselves, and find our own answers? Do we not need to be a bit braver?
ladybird64
24-10-10, 11:25
A valid point of view from my perspective Kibbutz although I would reiterate what I mentioned in an earlier post, it took many of us a long, long time to "find our way" and lack of understanding given towards those who are struggling isn't conducive to enabling them to feel empowered.
Which we know we have to be to start getting better.
The points that Jaco has raised are more or less the same as my opinions..different strokes for different folks.
The opening post was valid and useful for many but European refuses to acknowledge that there can possibly be a valid imbalance in the brain chemistry unless one suffers from Bi-polar or similar and I find the "one way to recovery" standpoint irritating, particularly when combined with unnecessary harshness.
There are some people on the forum who have been here for a few years but many have "recovered" and left.
We do need to remember that those of us who have done the "long haul" have had to go through a voyage of discovery before we have reached the point where we can see the wood through the trees.
The vast majority here are earlier on in their journey and many are bewildered and scared. I don't believe that showing some empathy is damaging, the most important thing is to reiterate that it is possible to feel better, then stand back and give the person time while supporting them.
Whatever works for the individual, whatever enables them to feel strong.no matter how long it takes...has got to be the right thing.
Doesn't common sense have to prevail?
Kind regards, Ang...On the lookout for the Booker Prize..does it pay out much? :tongue:
ladybird64
24-10-10, 11:29
Next people will be telling me wine & kebabs have a negative effect on the body.
Now that really is going too far, where on earth did you get that from?
Pffft..never heard such nonsense..scaremongering..mumble mumble...:winks:
European/Kibbutz, it's an old argument but do you go on forums for people who have eg diabetes, epilepsy, thyroid conditions and urge them to be "brave" and throw away their meds?
They stop taking them, their symptoms return. the same as happens when some people stop ADs. I still need a certain amount of courage to get on with my day at times but at least I'm not trapped in the house being gibbering wreck.
I'm totally with the others who say ... whatever works. And we're entitled to our opinions just as you are.
I'm fairly new here but this thread makes me feel worried to post something in case someone comes back at me so aggressively!!! Came here looking for some friendly advice and encouragement as I don't understand all what it happening to me so was interested in the title of this post. I do understand all your points of view just not the way in which they are being expressed.
Rennie1989
24-10-10, 12:41
People who suffer from panic attacks are the bravest people I know, please give them some credit. We all get to a point where it can get too hard go cope, our minds are so clouded with dread, anx, and other negative thoughts that we need some help from people.
What if, say people like me, have panic attacks for no reason, completely out of the blue, how can we face our fears when there arent any at all? What if antidepressants are the only way that panic attacks can be controlled because they are physiologically out of our control. They certainly are not a quick fix job! They help to regulate the chemical imbalance in the brain, like seratonin.
Can I just ask you something, are you aware that your post could offend people?
ladybird64
24-10-10, 13:14
I'm fairly new here but this thread makes me feel worried to post something in case someone comes back at me so aggressively!!! Came here looking for some friendly advice and encouragement as I don't understand all what it happening to me so was interested in the title of this post. I do understand all your points of view just not the way in which they are being expressed.
Awww Shaz-please don't be afraid to post for advice or support, that's what the forum is for.
Nobody has a right to treat anyone aggressively and if that were the case, rest assured the admins would step in immediately.
Post away :hugs:
olderfella
24-10-10, 13:37
Shaz dont be afraid to make a post if you have questions to ask then ask away we are all here to try and help each other,i started this post with the idea it may help people understand whats happening in their brain not to terrify or bully people,you can get loads of help and support on here they are a great bunch of understanding and caring folks:winks:
I don't really see how my post could offend anyone :( It wasn't meant in an offensive way... I was only trying to point out things that are perhaps sometimes "over-looked" by GP's or fellow sufferers :( There are always different perspectives on things :) It's perhaps about looking in different places for positive answers? I certainly wasn't trying to upset anyone, I was just "speaking" from personal experience... and the experience of others in my psychotherapy group who have been "stuck" on meds for years, and their Gp's and psychiatrist's have no clue how to help them anymore :( So they just pile-on more meds :( I believe that ad's are a god-send for people who have suffered a bereavement, or a sudden emotional trauma... but I am sorry to say that I still feel that they can at times do more harm than good... I can't change that opinion just because people on this site don't agree with me :( Would you want me to lie? Is that fair?
You can have your opinion kibb, no problems there :)
But it is only an opinion, I prefer facts. Just because you "feel" they do more harm than good, doesn't necessarily make it a fact. Now if you had facts to this, now that would be a different story, although I refuse to google it, as there will be some crackpot out there that says SSRI's turn you into a mermaid or something.
Now I feel I need to get back to the Celtic V Rangers match, we are winning after all ;)
olderfella
24-10-10, 14:00
cum on you gers:D
Hi Jaco.... problem is facts are somewhat "elusive", as the amounts of money spent and made on modern meds are astronomical.... that's why there is very little research done into their long-term effects :( As we know, the drug companies are not the most ethical :( I still believe people should be given "all the facts", before they make decisions either way... and yes this is just my perspective on things, but so are all the things on here... someone's perspective :)
Celtic 1 Rangers 3, anyone got some sedatives I could have ?
eeyorelover
24-10-10, 15:06
Sharing what works or doesn't work for you is great!
I think we can use all the info and personal experiences we can get.
The issue I think that some are having is calling meds a 'crutch' or saying that because a person is on meds, that they are running from fear.
I do agree that doctors are too quick to try to hand you a prescription right away, but that is for anything not just anxiety!
Overuse of antibiotics have compromised so many people's natural immune systems and helped to create superbugs that are harder to treat.
Doesn't mean society as a whole completely gets rid of antibiotics!
Some NEED antibiotics to fight infection. Just as some NEED anxiety meds. Doesn't make them any better or worse, that's just the way it is.
Hiya Shaz 14, been on the site for a while, post now and again and read other peoples posts a lot. Please don't let these animated postings put you off, the site is usually placid and gentle. Big full moon around at the moment...perhaps it's affecting some folk....lol. :blush: hope I ain't gonna get it in the neck now for being flippant.
Hi "Rennie", just to say that I unfortunately do have first hand experience of hideous anxiety/panic... I've suffered for 6 years now... daily :( I also now have PTSD, which causes petrifying flashbacks to a terribly abusive childhood :( Panic disorder is generally related to adrenal
fatigue/exhaustion, and can take years to "reverse"... as it probably took years to "create" :( I think that unless or until we take a proper look at what has "caused" our problems, how can we hope to become and stay well for the rest of our lives?
I will be the first to say "I am b***** brave in what I endure every day..." but I need to find the "right" answers, not the "wrong" ones :)
Good luck in your healing.
Hmm drugs vs therapy?
I've been incredibly lucky and was always offered therapy along with the meds. They are both equal in their help in my opinion. I believe the ADs give you a stable base on which to start getting better.
Problem is facts are somewhat "elusive", as the amounts of money spent and made on modern meds are astronomical.... that's why there is very little research done into their long-term effects :( As we know, the drug companies are not the most ethical
That’s an interesting point – and btw, I have absolutely no evidence to back it up. It’s just a personal opinion.
But I wonder sometimes how much the drug companies do influence the medical profession with their clever hype and sales techniques. They no doubt use lots of medical facts and evidence – just the sort of ideas that appeals to a doctor’s medical mind – hence it strikes a chord and they’re sold on the idea. They believe in it. They’re enthusiastic about it.
Then they pass on their beliefs in the product to their patients, who in turn also believe it. And why wouldn’t they? They trust their doctor, plus they’re trying to find something themselves to believe in to help resolve their problems.
I agree that meds do help lots of people cope and get through the worst of a crisis. I also agree that in many cases that’s left to develop into long term dependence when more effective therapeutic help should be offered.
Nigel
Thanks Nigel, you said what I was attempting to express, but didn't do as good a job as you :)
I see the fires are still raging here ;)
Responsibility is the key issue in all this (as European has pointed out somewhat badly). If you don't take responsibility for YOURSELF then nothing will "cure" you. Meds can help but they also fail many people. Even if it does help, sitting back and doing nothing will always lead to the question of what you'll do when you finally come off them. I don't think the majority of people on this forum are ignorant of this either. I think that many of us are searching ourselves in an effort to recover, whether we're on meds or not.
CBT and other talking therapies can also help but if you don't take responsibility and work at it, then that will fail you too. The problem is that we too often expect external influences to solve our problems: drugs, therapists or even time. Taking responsibility for me implies searching, questioning and taking action. There must be something that comes from YOU, internally, not endlessly seeking for someone else or something else to cure us.
Taking responsibility for me implies searching, questioning and taking action. There must be something that comes from YOU, internally, not endlessly seeking for someone else or something else to cure us.
Absolutely Mel but I don't feel I taking ADs stops me doing any of those things simultaneously.
Shaz, please don't be afraid to post. I'd say at least 999 threads out of 1000 on NMP are non-confrontational. there are just one or two people who can be very opinionated (and not in a good way) and it gets people's backs up :hugs:
Jaco, I find not having to work in Glasgow on Old Firm day is excellent for my mental health :yesyes: :winks:
Absolutely Mel but I don't feel I taking ADs stops me doing any of those things simultaneously.
Exactly Jane. I'm on meds but it doesn't absolve me of my responsibility to myself... We don't sit back and twiddle our thumbs. (Or any other twiddling for that matter.) If only it were that simple - perhaps none of us would be here.
Lordy, what's all the fuss about? :lac:
Btw, I wouldn't call it "opinionated" hun... I'd call it "having an opinion"
And sometimes confrontation is a positive not a negative...
paula lynne
24-10-10, 21:31
Its horses for courses..whatever works for you. x
However, Im no longer reliant on meds after valium and anti-dps messed me up completely...and 6 years on completly drug free. I feel my anx and panic is much better, not so severe, and feel more alive. It opened me up to really FEELING the panic and all its nasty symptoms, but at the samt time, helped me to heal.
Meds, cbt, alternative therapies, excercise, all have their place. Its very individualistic. As long as the person improves and gets beneficial results..job done. But Im glad I personally faced my fears and gave up the meds. :yesyes:
ladybird64
24-10-10, 21:31
Last post on this one as I have put my opinion forward and don't want to get into niggly arguments.
Re your last post Kibbutz..having an opinion is fair enough but when that opinion comes across as so harsh that people actually consider whther they should post in case they are answered aggressively?
Not really on is it?
Cambridge Dictionary definition of "opinionated"
describes someone who is certain about what they think and believe, and who expresses their ideas strongly and often
Seems accurate enough usage to me :whistles:
BTW, you should be careful about calling Scottish people "hun". It has a particular meaning up here and using it can offend, particularly on days like today!
I can only see one person here with a problem... why are you getting so defensive JaneC? Everyone on here gives their personal opinions and experiences... did I do anything different?
MidnightCalm
24-10-10, 21:41
Where is the love?
Obviously not on this thread :(
Come on ladies... There's nothing wrong with expressing "opinions" (in a positive way of course).
paula lynne
24-10-10, 21:50
Heres a little bit of love :bighug1::bighug1::bighug1::bighug1::bighug1::bigh ug1::bighug1:"Give a lil bit...give a lil bit of your love to me....I'll give a lil bit...give a lil bit of my life to you......" xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I can only see one person here with a problem... why are you getting so defensive JaneC? Everyone on here gives their personal opinions and experiences... did I do anything different?
I have said more than once that everybody is entitled to their opinion. I also think it's fair enough on a forum if other people then want to voice differing opinions.
I don't think I am being defensive - you didn't like a word I used and I pointed out that it seemed, by definition, an entirely appropriate word in the circumstances. Words, their meanings and their correct usage are very important to me.
I would point out that this thread only kicked off when your friend started criticising what amounts to a large number of NMP members, but I'd be happy to see it closed at some point soon.
...but I'd be happy to see it closed at some point soon.
...and that’s what will happen at this rate, which would be a shame because there have been a few interesting points raised, and they would be lost too.
So may I please suggest that this thread remains on track, with any personal arguments carried out via PM etc.
Many thanks,
Nigel
bottleblond
24-10-10, 22:29
Well said Nigel! Can't say fairer than that.
Lisa
x
...and that’s what will happen at this rate, which would be a shame because there have been a few interesting points raised, and they would be lost too.
So may I please suggest that this thread remains on track, with any personal arguments carried out via PM etc.
Many thanks,
Nigel
I agree Nigel but I don't understand why you don't just remove individual posts instead of closing an entire thread which was started with good intentions by Olderfella and as you said also has some good replies.
If it was my thread I'd be livid.
nomorepanic
24-10-10, 22:50
It is like deja vue around here sometimes :unsure:
ladybird64
24-10-10, 22:54
Only sometimes Nic? :winks:
I'd could swear I have been here before too..
PS. Said I wasn't going to post here anymore. Can I beg forgiveness oh boss of bosses? Illustrious leader? Hmm? :noangel:
Only sometimes Nic? :winks:
I'd could swear I have been here before too..
PS. Said I wasn't going to post here anymore. Can I beg forgiveness oh boss of bosses? Illustrious leader? Hmm? :noangel:
OK, I forgive you LB :D
nomorepanic
24-10-10, 22:58
LOL Mel
bottleblond
24-10-10, 23:01
:roflmao:
A little humour goes along way at times.
It's not a boxing ring but an anxiety forum. We are not here to fight but to help and advise eachother.
Anyone got next weeks lottery numbers please?
x
Might be easier to cut replies from all the varios threads of this nature - would get to the same conclusion far quicker. Then we can all agree to disagree as usually happens :shades:
ladybird64
24-10-10, 23:08
Sounds like a good idea Soobie only problem is sometimes cutting certain replies makes the rest of the thread difficult to understand.
With a thread like this though it shouldn't be a problem.
Oh and Lisa..ask Mel for the lottery numbers. He knows everything. :winks:
bottleblond
24-10-10, 23:10
Far be it from us to be judge and jury. Let people fight and argue if they have nothing more productive to do with their time, we will just pick up the pieces again like we always do.
Sighhhhhhhhhhhhh
Amin stoogies lol
xx
Sounds like a good idea Soobie only problem is sometimes cutting certain replies makes the rest of the thread difficult to understand.
With a thread like this though it shouldn't be a problem.
Oh and Lisa..ask Mel for the lottery numbers. He knows everything. :winks:
MM will be cutting you, you cheeky swine!
MM knows SOME things (OK everything about BB anyway :D)
I find most things hard to understand LB :winks: I do find the winning lottery numbers quite interesting though lol
bottleblond
24-10-10, 23:15
MM will be cutting you, you cheeky swine!
MM knows SOME things (OK everything about BB anyway :D)
Shhhhhhhhhhhhh you :lac: pmsl xxxx
nomorepanic
24-10-10, 23:16
I agree Nigel but I don't understand why you don't just remove individual posts instead of closing an entire thread which was started with good intentions by Olderfella and as you said also has some good replies.
Not that easy though is it (p.s. I am not Nigel lol).
If we remove someone's thread and not someone else's that person will think they are being singled out. This is why we end up removing the whole thread :doh:
ladybird64
24-10-10, 23:17
MM will be cutting you, you cheeky swine!
MM knows SOME things (OK everything about BB anyway :D)
Io?? Penso di no! (in other words..just try it! http://digilander.libero.it/faccinewub/w/11/pugni.gif)
Apologies to olderfella for hijacking his thread with a touch of humour but I hope he won't mind TOO much..seems a very nice guy. :)
Goodnight all and peace out :hugs:
Not that easy though is it (p.s. I am not Nigel lol).
If we remove someone's thread and not someone else's that person will think they are being singled out. This is why we end up removing the whole thread :doh:
OK, hope you don't mind if I consult LB on this and get back to you with a decision?
I know what you mean about all the cutting Oh Dear Stooges of NMP (incl BB no "e")
Gotta laugh :roflmao:
Hope it cheers Olderfella up a bit too
Been away for a couple of hours so just catching up.
I agree Nigel but I don't understand why you don't just remove individual posts instead of closing an entire thread which was started with good intentions by Olderfella and as you said also has some good replies.
That’s a good point, and one that others have answered. Sometimes it’s possible, but it depends whether removing certain replies leaves the whole thread rather disjointed. People often refer to previous replies, and that sometimes makes it hard to do.
Better to keep things on track in the first place, me thinks, and thanks everyone for doing that :)
Nigel
I just wanna say one more thing... you called me "opinionated"... and that was your opinion :( This whole site is called no more panic... regardless of how we achieve that. Btw European isn't my "friend"... I don't even know if it's a male or a female :( This is all pretty petty, and I reckon it's time to grow up :)
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