View Full Version : Help!! I really don't want to live like this any longer
HI All
Not been here for awhile. Had some fab advice on taking cit - thank you all - however now I'm wondering whether it was all worth it.
I got made redundant and started my own business - early stages yet but very stressful - part of what I'm having to do is make semi cold calls to potential customers for my business and I am finding it really difficult almost too difficult. Its taking me an hour of psyching myself up to make these calls and it's doing my head in. I hate being useless but I know that I am. I know I can make it work the only thing stopping me is me.
I went cold turkey from the citalopram back in mid december dropped down from 40 mg to 20 and the thought sod this I can do without this muck. So I quit.
But now I keep crying all the time and feeling that the world would be better off without me.
I put on a happy face for the doctor when I went to see him on a non fraggle related problem and he seemed ok with me not taking the cit. I was terrified that I would be sectioned for not taking my medication so I really put on a good performance for him.
Now I don't know what to do. I NEED to be able to have the self confidence to make these cold calls and deal with the 80% of people who politely tell me to bugger off.
I really bloody hate this I really do. I wish I had never taken Cit at all it doesn't seem to have improved things for me at all. I should be able to deal with this stuff it's not bloody rocket science.
Because I'm stressing over the calls I'm neglecting the housework, neglecting myself and getting myself into a right state. I don't want to go out and meet people socially anymore either.
I wish I could temporarily die and wake up better.
Sorry about the rant I just don't know where else to turn.
While I was on the cit I did have self confidence and was buzzing round getting stuff sorted out but now I'm just feel that I'm running between feeling fairly useless, useless and really useless.
Trundler
PS I'm drinking more alcohol than I used to and that is worrying me as well as it's giving me nightmares that are with me all day long.
Hi Trundler,
I’m sorry to hear about the redundancy, but well done for doing something proactive about it by starting your own business.
I’d hate doing cold calling too, so your not alone. It’s not being useless – some things we’re good at, some things we’re not, that’s all. It seems like this one little task is taking up so much of your time, and no doubt distracting from other work that needs to be done. So I was wondering... is it essential, or would it be better to focus on the things you can do for now? Or is there another way? Perhaps by email, or even old fashioned letters, or leaflets if it’s local. Dunno... maybe that wouldn’t be aggressive enough to get results :shrug:
Or is there somebody else you could enlist to make the calls? Friend, family member, ex colleague who was made redundant too? Even if you had to pay a small amount for their services, you might find you made more in the long run by focusing on the parts of the business you’re better at. Managing your weaknesses and playing to your strengths.
“I NEED to be able to have the self confidence to make these cold calls and deal with the 80% of people who politely tell me to bugger off.”
You need to develop a really thick skin for that, and I’m sure there are many people who aren’t even polite about it. Suppose it takes good self esteem – a solid belief in oneself as a person – to be able to do that. Perhaps self esteem is something you could read up on.
“I went cold turkey from the citalopram back in mid december dropped down from 40 mg to 20 and the thought sod this I can do without this muck. So I quit.”
This could also be still having an effect, so try to make allowances for that fact too. Many of these drugs work by suppressing the emotions. As you said, while you were on them you had the confidence, but in a way it wasn’t so much the confidence but the dulling of all those other negative and often limiting feelings and self beliefs.
Over time the brain starts to compensate for the effects of the drug, hence why the dose is often increased. But it comes to the point where there is a balance. When a person suddenly stops, the brain is still overcompensating for the drug’s effect, and that cause very intense emotions. Often the person experiences all their old feelings, but intensified. That’s why it’s always recommended to withdraw gradually. I guess it’s best to stick with quitting now, but try to make allowances for the way you feel for now.
Best of luck with the business :yesyes:
Nigel
Anxious_gal
19-01-11, 20:31
you could try EFT tapping before making the calls? give it a go it might help x
http://www.google.ie/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=youtube+eft#q=youtube+eft&hl=en&prmd=ivns&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=Fko3TfmoK860hAfcmqSvAw&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCwQqwQwAA&fp=192121d28dc8cff2
HI All
Not been here for awhile. Had some fab advice on taking cit - thank you all - however now I'm wondering whether it was all worth it.
I got made redundant and started my own business - early stages yet but very stressful - part of what I'm having to do is make semi cold calls to potential customers for my business and I am finding it really difficult almost too difficult. Its taking me an hour of psyching myself up to make these calls and it's doing my head in. I hate being useless but I know that I am. I know I can make it work the only thing stopping me is me.
I went cold turkey from the citalopram back in mid december dropped down from 40 mg to 20 and the thought sod this I can do without this muck. So I quit.
But now I keep crying all the time and feeling that the world would be better off without me.
I put on a happy face for the doctor when I went to see him on a non fraggle related problem and he seemed ok with me not taking the cit. I was terrified that I would be sectioned for not taking my medication so I really put on a good performance for him.
Now I don't know what to do. I NEED to be able to have the self confidence to make these cold calls and deal with the 80% of people who politely tell me to bugger off.
I really bloody hate this I really do. I wish I had never taken Cit at all it doesn't seem to have improved things for me at all. I should be able to deal with this stuff it's not bloody rocket science.
Because I'm stressing over the calls I'm neglecting the housework, neglecting myself and getting myself into a right state. I don't want to go out and meet people socially anymore either.
I wish I could temporarily die and wake up better.
Sorry about the rant I just don't know where else to turn.
While I was on the cit I did have self confidence and was buzzing round getting stuff sorted out but now I'm just feel that I'm running between feeling fairly useless, useless and really useless.
Trundler
PS I'm drinking more alcohol than I used to and that is worrying me as well as it's giving me nightmares that are with me all day long.
Hiya hun, can really relate to how u feel living like this is hell its no life, its only my hubby and kids who keep me going. Perharps u should go back to your doc and discuss meds? Im sure things will improve for us:bighug1:
Hiya hun, can really relate to how u feel living like this is hell its no life, its only my hubby and kids who keep me going. Perharps u should go back to your doc and discuss meds? Im sure things will improve for us:bighug1:
For personal reasons I really don't want to have to go back to the doctors to ask for more meds. I don't want any more 'mental health' stuff on my medical records in case it causes problems for me later on in life. This is why if I could get Cit 'off the books' IYSWIM then I'd be there with my chequebook asking for a supply of 20mg Citlaopram.
Hi Trundler,
I’m sorry to hear about the redundancy, but well done for doing something proactive about it by starting your own business.Nigel
Thanks.
I’d hate doing cold calling too, so your not alone. It’s not being useless – some things we’re good at, some things we’re not, that’s all. It seems like this one little task is taking up so much of your time, and no doubt distracting from other work that needs to be done. So I was wondering... is it essential, or would it be better to focus on the things you can do for now? Or is there another way? Perhaps by email, or even old fashioned letters, or leaflets if it’s local. Dunno... maybe that wouldn’t be aggressive enough to get results :shrug:Nigel
I've done a huge physical mailout but I need to follow up the letters with calls. At the moment I'm psyching myself up doing five calls and then crying about my uselessness.
Or is there somebody else you could enlist to make the calls? Friend, family member, ex colleague who was made redundant too? Even if you had to pay a small amount for their services, you might find you made more in the long run by focusing on the parts of the business you’re better at. Managing your weaknesses and playing to your strengths.Nigel
I think that is probably what I need to do.
“I NEED to be able to have the self confidence to make these cold calls and deal with the 80% of people who politely tell me to bugger off.”
You need to develop a really thick skin for that, and I’m sure there are many people who aren’t even polite about it. Suppose it takes good self esteem – a solid belief in oneself as a person – to be able to do that. Perhaps self esteem is something you could read up on.Nigel
That's what hurts I used to have such a thick skin. I could blunder my way through some pretty dangerous situations because things didn't appear to faze me. I'll try a self esteem book but my experiences with self help books hasn't been good.
“I went cold turkey from the citalopram back in mid december dropped down from 40 mg to 20 and the thought sod this I can do without this muck. So I quit.”
This could also be still having an effect, so try to make allowances for that fact too. Many of these drugs work by suppressing the emotions. As you said, while you were on them you had the confidence, but in a way it wasn’t so much the confidence but the dulling of all those other negative and often limiting feelings and self beliefs.Nigel
Good point. I hated the fact that I couldn't 'feel' when I was on Cit. I wonder whether or not I should have just flushed the cit down the toilet and seen if I could have got better with a lot of rest. Have I made a rod for my own back bytaking it in the first place?
Over time the brain starts to compensate for the effects of the drug, hence why the dose is often increased. But it comes to the point where there is a balance. When a person suddenly stops, the brain is still overcompensating for the drug’s effect, and that cause very intense emotions. Often the person experiences all their old feelings, but intensified. That’s why it’s always recommended to withdraw gradually. I guess it’s best to stick with quitting now, but try to make allowances for the way you feel for now.
Best of luck with the business :yesyes:
Nigel
Thanks I've started to get some customers and I know January is quiet and I know I've only been in business properly for a month but I feel that I need to make these calls to feel that I'm doing something. The problem is I'm going on a 'schlep and sell' trip on monday round the local engineering firms and I'm less nervous about walking into someones firm and chatting about my business than I am calling people.
For personal reasons I really don't want to have to go back to the doctors to ask for more meds. I don't want any more 'mental health' stuff on my medical records in case it causes problems for me later on in life. This is why if I could get Cit 'off the books' IYSWIM then I'd be there with my chequebook asking for a supply of 20mg Citlaopram.
Why are you so afraid/ashamed to have a "mental health" history??
Anyone with anxiety, depression, panic disorders etc, has a mental health problem - dos'nt mean they will have a criminal record or they are bad people to be avoided.
What is the difference between having a "physical" health problem as opposed to having a "mental" health problem?? I will tell you - stigma and ignorance. Some people hear "mental health" and immediately think, lunatics, crazy people, psychiatric wards etc etc.
A lot of people just have short term mental health problems and yes, this will be on your health records for good reasons. However, your health records are completely confidentual so, only health professionals would ever see them.
There is nothing to be ashamed of to say to others " I have an anxiety problem or whatever". you are not being weak or pathetic - you are being true to yourself. Acceptance is the key to overcomming this illness.
You sound like a very strong minded person that is getting frustrated with your illness - I too have been like this - but give it a little time, be patient and kind to yourself and you will overcome it and learn to manage it.
Best wishes
Judi
For personal reasons I really don't want to have to go back to the doctors to ask for more meds. I don't want any more 'mental health' stuff on my medical records in case it causes problems for me later on in life. This is why if I could get Cit 'off the books' IYSWIM then I'd be there with my chequebook asking for a supply of 20mg Citlaopram.
Why are you so afraid/ashamed to have a "mental health" history??Best wishes
Judi
Because my wife and I would like to foster or adopt a child at some point in the future and having more than one MH episode on med records may preclude this. Basically I don't trust social workers any further than I can spit. I have seen them do some appalling things to conform with whichever their current dogma is at the time.
Anyone with anxiety, depression, panic disorders etc, has a mental health problem - dos'nt mean they will have a criminal record or they are bad people to be avoided.
What is the difference between having a "physical" health problem as opposed to having a "mental" health problem?? I will tell you - stigma and ignorance. Some people hear "mental health" and immediately think, lunatics, crazy people, psychiatric wards etc etc.
A lot of people just have short term mental health problems and yes, this will be on your health records for good reasons. However, your health records are completely confidentual so, only health professionals would ever see them.
There is nothing to be ashamed of to say to others " I have an anxiety problem or whatever". you are not being weak or pathetic - you are being true to yourself. Acceptance is the key to overcomming this illness.
You sound like a very strong minded person that is getting frustrated with your illness - I too have been like this - but give it a little time, be patient and kind to yourself and you will overcome it and learn to manage it. Best wishes
Judi
I agree with you that in an ideal world MH wouldn't have a stigma attached to it but in the real world it does. It's not just the adoption / fostering thing it affects everything. It affects whether or I can work in certain areas also it shows up on vetting searches if I want to do contracts for certain areas of the public sector.
No the world isn't fluffy and I'd rather pay a little more for my meds than have a second MH episode on my records. Maybe if I had not quit the Cit and had just had a continuation of the script it would have been OK but a second MH tag on the records makes me look dodgy - which I am most definitely not.
Trundler
You sound like a very strong minded person that is getting frustrated with your illness - I too have been like this - but give it a little time, be patient and kind to yourself and you will overcome it and learn to manage it.
Best wishes
Judi
I am getting really frustrated with this illness. I hate the way that it puts stumbling blocks in my way and I'm too weak and pathetic to move them from my path.
ladybird64
21-01-11, 12:26
I can certainly hear and feel the frustration coming through your posts and I totally understand it.
I'm an ex-Cit user, stopped cold in October last year and got hammered by side effects. I also have an adversion to going to the GP..took me more than 25 yrs to get myself there and be put on the Cit!
However, I took myself off for probably the same reasons that you did and have stayed off them. Life is definitely not as sweet as it was while I was taking them (I felt like Superwoman :D) but I'm not going back on them as I feel you have got to come off them sometime!
Going through everything you have written it's the cold calling that's the trouble, the rest you can manage. The advice about getting somebody in to do this particular task seems sound to me, leaves you to get on with things further up the line.
I'm not going to say be kind to yourself because at the moment, I don't think you're going to listen..you're too peed off with yourself!
By all means let the frustration out but once you have done that take a step back and rationalise the situation.
At this precise moment in time you can't handle the phone calls. Doesn't matter why and no amount of kicking yourself around the room will change that so you have to work around that issue.
Secondly..do you really want to go back on the Cit again or do you want to be the person you were when you were taking it?
I'm not trying to put you off but I think you need to take a long look at your motives..are they enough to make you go back on meds again or is this frustration talking?
You will gain strength by rationalising and figuring out a way to cope with the immediate problem Im sure of that. When the next problem comes along (it's life, comes with probs!) then you will be able to manage that too.
Maybe not in the way you used to, or the way you THINK you should but in the way that is most effective for you at the moment.
Good luck :flowers:
I can certainly hear and feel the frustration coming through your posts and I totally understand it.
Good luck :flowers:
It is frustrating. I SHOULD be able to do certain things.
I'm an ex-Cit user, stopped cold in October last year and got hammered by side effects. I also have an adversion to going to the GP..took me more than 25 yrs to get myself there and be put on the Cit!
Good luck :flowers:
Same here because of what happened to my Nan years ago (sectioned, powerful tranx, treated as a non person) I really didn't want to present with a MH problem as it seemed to me that was admitting that I'd failed at life.
However, I took myself off for probably the same reasons that you did and have stayed off them. Life is definitely not as sweet as it was while I was taking them (I felt like Superwoman :D) but I'm not going back on them as I feel you have got to come off them sometime!
Good luck :flowers:
Agree that life isn't as sweet without the cit than with them. I don't want to feel that I need a tablet to feel normal.
Going through everything you have written it's the cold calling that's the trouble, the rest you can manage. The advice about getting somebody in to do this particular task seems sound to me, leaves you to get on with things further up the line.
Good luck :flowers:
I'm going to have to sub the phoning out.
I'm not going to say be kind to yourself because at the moment, I don't think you're going to listen..you're too peed off with yourself!
Good luck :flowers:
Oh yes I'm mightily cheesed off with myself and at its worst it feels like I don't deserve to be kind to myself.
By all means let the frustration out but once you have done that take a step back and rationalise the situation.
Good luck :flowers:
At this precise moment in time you can't handle the phone calls. Doesn't matter why and no amount of kicking yourself around the room will change that so you have to work around that issue.
Good luck :flowers:
I'm finding that the other bits of the work I deal with fine and I have no problem with incoming calls whatsoever.
Secondly..do you really want to go back on the Cit again or do you want to be the person you were when you were taking it?
Good luck :flowers:
I don't want to take Cit if I can avoid it. I've done some digging and know that I can get it from overseas without having to present myself to the GP. This has calmed me down a lot. To know that I can go back on them if I really need to without involving the GP is a huge load off of my mind. You are right I want to be the person I was when I was on Cit but I need to be able to do it without it.
I'm not trying to put you off but I think you need to take a long look at your motives..are they enough to make you go back on meds again or is this frustration talking?
Good luck :flowers:
Frustration it seems at present.
You will gain strength by rationalising and figuring out a way to cope with the immediate problem Im sure of that. When the next problem comes along (it's life, comes with probs!) then you will be able to manage that too.
Maybe not in the way you used to, or the way you THINK you should but in the way that is most effective for you at the moment.
Good luck :flowers:
Thank you so much for that. My wife says to me that I set myself far too high a standard for myself so that I'm bound to fail.
Setting standards that are too high..... hmm, this sounds very familiar.
I suspect that a lot of us who suffer with anxiety and associated problems are like this because we have been conditioned to expect too much of ourselves. I do this all the time - I beat myself up terribly about failure, or about being inadequate.
But this comes from somewhere - if we look back carefully, there will be incidents in our lives which have given us a basic belief that we're "not good enough", and what we have to do to get better is to put that aside, and then we can have more reasonable expectations of ourselves. It's OK not to be perfect; I just to try and tell myself that at times as well.
Setting standards that are too high..... hmm, this sounds very familiar.
Likewise.
I suspect that a lot of us who suffer with anxiety and associated problems are like this because we have been conditioned to expect too much of ourselves. I do this all the time - I beat myself up terribly about failure, or about being inadequate.
So do I.
But this comes from somewhere - if we look back carefully, there will be incidents in our lives which have given us a basic belief that we're "not good enough", and what we have to do to get better is to put that aside, and then we can have more reasonable expectations of ourselves. It's OK not to be perfect; I just to try and tell myself that at times as well.
I've tried to do that and I can see some things but I really don't want to go there. I don't trust counselling and I know why.
I have a lot of problems with talking about feelings and stuff and this goes back to my ex partner. She was very psychologically knowledgable (I would guess degree level) but used that knowledge in an abusive way to control me for example making me sit on th floor in front of her for hours until I did what I was told and slagged my own familiy off, telling me I was useless in bed and useless round the house. She took money off of me and generally controlled me. To me the 'talking cure' reminds me too much of how she used her knowledge to my detriment. I should have got out much earlier than I did but I didn't think I'd survive without her instructions. I'm ashamed that I was such a fool and a wuss.
[QUOTE=Trundler
I don't want to take Cit if I can avoid it. I've done some digging and know that I can get it from overseas without having to present myself to the GP. This has calmed me down a lot. To know that I can go back on them if I really need to without involving the GP is a huge load off of my mind. You are right I want to be the person I was when I was on Cit but I need to be able to do it without it.
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Sorry if this is going to make you anxious again .But please dont even think about buying Drugs online .You dont know what they contain ,and can sometimes make you very ill ,have no effect and even worse cause you serious complications . Im sure you can cope quite well with out them .But try not to be so critical of yourself .Its ok not to be 100% perfect all the time .Its an impossible expectation ..T/c Sue x
[QUOTE=Trundler
Sorry if this is going to make you anxious again .But please dont even think about buying Drugs online .You dont know what they contain ,and can sometimes make you very ill ,have no effect and even worse cause you serious complications . Im sure you can cope quite well with out them .But try not to be so critical of yourself .Its ok not to be 100% perfect all the time .Its an impossible expectation ..T/c Sue x
This company looks legit (has a policy of no opiates, no barbituates etc etc) seems to have legit manufacturing sources etc but I'll bear what you said in mind. Like I said before priority is to get better whichever way I can without involving the GP.
Thanks everyone I'm beginning to calm down a bit now. Frustrations still there and still hurting though.
I'm sorry If this seems harsh but I am one of those people who have to take cit to feel 'normal'. I was so disappointed when I realised this but when I came to accept it and open up about my mental health things have become a lot better for me, I now don't put so much pressure on myself and feel like i have to make exuses and lie to ppl about my life.
Sounds like you need to accept what is going on, sounds like you need to open up about how you're feeling, realise the thoughts you are having and how they aren't helping! eg SHOULD!!!! that is a word overloaded with pressure and negativity.
and I'm sorry if my opinion offends but i really don't think you should even be considering fostering etc until you're stable and it doesn't sound to me like you are.
You also have a really negative view on doctors, social workers, etc and like you my nan died in a mental institution it doesn't mean we have to feel negative about any of it!!!
We have to deal with stigma and ignorance=Fact!
A way to challenge this is not try to avoid it, we can do this by opening up about our mental health, not by trying to ignore and pretend it doesn't exist!
Oh and buying cit or any other drug over the internet no matter how desperate you are is quite frankly dangerous and stupid!!!
I'm sorry about the rant but this thread and some of the posts have annoyed me.
I'm sorry If this seems harsh but I am one of those people who have to take cit to feel 'normal'. I was so disappointed when I realised this but when I came to accept it and open up about my mental health things have become a lot better for me, I now don't put so much pressure on myself and feel like i have to make exuses and lie to ppl about my life.
Sounds like you need to accept what is going on, sounds like you need to open up about how you're feeling, realise the thoughts you are having and how they aren't helping! eg SHOULD!!!! that is a word overloaded with pressure and negativity.
and I'm sorry if my opinion offends but i really don't think you should even be considering fostering etc until you're stable and it doesn't sound to me like you are.
You also have a really negative view on doctors, social workers, etc and like you my nan died in a mental institution it doesn't mean we have to feel negative about any of it!!!
We have to deal with stigma and ignorance=Fact!
A way to challenge this is not try to avoid it, we can do this by opening up about our mental health, not by trying to ignore and pretend it doesn't exist!
Oh and buying cit or any other drug over the internet no matter how desperate you are is quite frankly dangerous and stupid!!!
I'm sorry about the rant but this thread and some of the posts have annoyed me.
I know I'm not stable at the moment but I'm absolutely desperate to be so I can function properly. You are right it does feel like a disappointment to feel that I may need this tablet to be normal.
I think that everyones experiences of particular professions colours their view somewhat. Because of some of the circles I've been round and jobs that I have done I have seen a side of some of these professions that makes me uneasy. Your experience may have been very different.
I don't want or need any 'talking cures' from experts for reasons that I've already explained. Frankly I fear them although logically I know this shouldn't be the case.
I certainly see your point about the SHOULD thing. It can become oppressive.
I think I shall do without the Cit.
Your pov doesen't offend me one bit.
Sorry I vented while I was feeling shit. I'm off for a beer.
Talkng about MH stuff really isn't helping at the moment. In fact it makes me feel worse.
I refuse to be victim of this.
I'm off. Stay well everyone.
Hi Trundler,
I do sort of understand re the MH stuff. A lot of things shouldn’t happen, and I think things are much better than they were, but sadly theory and real life don’t always match up. Suppose if you can do it alone, that great. Just treat yourself with a little more compassion, just like you would when recovering from a physical illness.
If you’re into self help books, I like Paul McKenna. I bought Change Your Life in 7 Days (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/059305055X/ref=nosim?tag=psychologysol-21) a few years back and thought it was really good. He’s since done some more specific ones about Confidence (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0593055357/ref=nosim?tag=psychologysol-21) and Money (http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0593060512/ref=nosim?tag=psychologysol-21) that are on my ‘things to do’ list.
Sounds like a good plan to sub out the cold calling. There must be loads of women stuck at home with the kids that would love to be paid to chat on the phone for a few hours. You mentioned engineering so I assume a lot of your clients are men. I know I’m gonna be shot down in flames for being sexist, but they might be more inclined to listen to a sales spiel from a young lady :winks:
I have to second what Sue, and others, have said re online drugs. As Sue pointed out, they’re often fake – sometimes harmless but sometimes can make a person very ill. Delivery is unpredictable as it’s from overseas, and some orders get intercepted by customs. This all causes more unnecessary stress. Also, the law is constantly being tightened and you can find your supplier suddenly disappearing leaving you to go ‘cold turkey’ with all the unpleasant sudden withdrawal side effects that entails.
I know you say the site looks legit, but selling prescription drugs like that isn’t legit, so it’s impossible tell. People can say anything on the internet. The other thing is where do the supplies come from if they are the real thing? Some may be sourced from the supplier, but many are from faked prescriptions or even stolen from medical supplies. Somewhere along the line needy people are going without. Also, a lot of the profits – like those from many counterfeit goods – goes to fund organised crime and even terrorism.
Sorry for the lecture. It’s just something I feel very strongly about because I’ve seen first hand the problems and distress it can lead to. It isn’t worth it. Please don’t go there.
I also have to second the comments about the word ‘should’. Along with it’s cousin ‘ought’ it’s banned on NMP :winks:
For example, from an earlier reply:
“It is frustrating. I SHOULD be able to do certain things.”
If there wasn’t a ‘should’ there would be no ‘frustration’ and life would be a whole lot easier. There would be less stress and negative feelings, and in that calmer state the mind works much better at solving problems.
Best of luck with the business :)
Nigel
Thanks everyone. I'm going to stay off of the Cit and get better properly.
I know some people are going to think that I'm wrong but I do feel that speaking about MH stuff doesn't make me better it just makes me feel like a victim.
Therefore I'm going to delete my account from here, grow some balls and sort my life out.
Thank you all for being so helpful. This place might help some people but not me. Goodbye.
ladybird64
21-01-11, 20:37
I'm sorry about the rant but this thread and some of the posts have annoyed me.
Can I ask what it is that you have found annoying? :shrug:
ladybird64
21-01-11, 20:39
Thanks everyone. I'm going to stay off of the Cit and get better properly.
I know some people are going to think that I'm wrong but I do feel that speaking about MH stuff doesn't make me better it just makes me feel like a victim.
Therefore I'm going to delete my account from here, grow some balls and sort my life out.
Thank you all for being so helpful. This place might help some people but not me. Goodbye.
I'm not going to say what I'm thinking..you can probably guess. :winks:
A suggestion. Leave the account open, you may even want to post back here with good news in the future.
Take care :flowers:
Can I ask what it is that you have found annoying? :shrug:
I just find talking about MH stuff really difficult. I can't be 'measured' about it. I just splurge my fears and pain and I don't think that is helpful to me getting better. It makes me feel worse and it makes me feel like I'm some sort of victim.
Talking about the MH stuff allegedly should make me feel better but it doesn't.
ladybird64
21-01-11, 20:43
Trundler, the question was asked to Kezstar, not yourself!
For what it's worth,,I feel exactly the same about talking..it's not everyone's cup of tea.
Do what's right for you and if you do decide to leave, I wish you all the best. :)
PS. Talking as in talking to professionals, not here on the forum.
OK won't be deleting the account but will not come back until I feel a bit better.
ladybird64
21-01-11, 20:52
Totally understand that. Take care :hugs:
harasgenster
21-01-11, 21:07
Hi
Just wanted to chip in with one thing. Sometimes it feels like you need pills to feel normal, but you don't. Pills are a short-term patch to help you through as you change your life and thoughts to ones that no longer make you anxious.
Cit makes you feel great at first, I was high as a kite on it for the first year, but then it stops working and you fall flat on your face.
Medication is brilliant, it's an absolute Godsend when you need it, but it's really important to always bear in mind that you have to come of it some day, there isn't any point in staying on it because it will stop working and you'll just need to swap pills or go on a higher dose and by doing this you will may get in a trap that makes it harder to get better.
Trundler - if you don't want to go back to the doc and get more pills then don't. I've been through really tough times on pills and equally tough times off them and I've pulled through on both occasions equally well.
Cold calling is a nasty thing to have to do, I hate it, in fact I pretty much bent the rules to get out of it when I had to do it for a job but I didn't feel like a failure. I know this is something you have to do for the business, but like you said, sub it out for now :)
You don't have to do talking or take meds and I totally agree with you that if you feel like the forum is making you worse then don't come on for a while. It makes me worse too sometimes but I end up hanging around here procrastinating!
Your wife seems to understand, you said that she thinks your setting standards too high for yourself.Could you and your wife sit down and have a talk about this? There might be things you can work out that you could do to make you feel better.
Some things are really obvious stuff that really make a massive difference, like:
1) Healthy diet - eating a lot of high-fat food can make you feel weighed down. Don't diet because that'll make you feel even worse, but just cut out some of the grease and add some veg if you think you need to.
2) Exercise - try to get half an hour every day and do it outside in the fresh air - even if it's only a walk.
3) Silence or soft music - you need quiet. I'm a girl so I go for a bath with a scented candle of incense and some piano music to listen to - don't know if that would be your kind of thing but you could try and find an alternative that makes you feel relaxed. See if you can have some time just lying down in a quiet place with your wife?
4) Do something you enjoy every day - something that doesn't have ANY stress attached in any way. You might feel like you're not going to enjoy it and you might have to force yourself to do it, but I reckon you'll enjoy it more once you get there.
Lastly, well done! You're suffering from anxiety, yet you've started a business and you're organising mailouts, going round businesses, taking calls and you are making cold calls even if you're not enjoying it.
That's more than a lot of people without MH problems could do and you're doing it despite them. I don't know what you're saying about not having tough skin anymore because you clearly do. The fact that you continue to push the business along shows that you're picking yourself back up every time you feel you have failed with the cold calling.
Good luck with everything. There's nothing wrong with pills and therapy but there's nothing wrong with not having those things either, if you ask me. Just so long as you're doing something to help yourself. And do try to talk to someone, such as your wife. Even if you don't want to talk to professionals, it is best to be sharing things with someone or you'll end up mulling it over all the time.
Thank you all so very much everyone. Sorry about the huge and very embarrassing rant :ohmy:
I've made an appointment to go back on the Cit but I'm only going to ask for 10mg. Feels like I've failed by having to go back to quacks but it's got to be better than feeling like this. I can't let the business suffer for want of a tablet. This was the first time I cold turkey'd of sorts from Cit and I felt great for about a month then it all went bad again.
Many thanks again. I hate being mad I wish I was as sane as the next person.
You're not mad!! everyone has thier issues, believe me, just some don't like to admit them! lol.
Some of the advice on this forum is great but some not so, there's lots of personal opinions but everyone is different!
Just because one person can get on ok off meds doesnt mean another person can do the same. I am one of those people who will be on medication for life, It was hard to accept as i felt like a failure. I've tried different medication and being off them but the fact is I am one of those people who need to take a tablet to function normally and I accept that now.
I always try to explain this to people who don't 'get it', i tell them that i have a chemical imbalance in my brain that means i need to take medication to make me 'normal', just like someone with diabetes needs to take insulin to level out thier blood sugar.
The diabetes needs insulin.
The chemical imbalance needs meds.
It's as simple as that.
and as a good friend of mine-who has bipolar said to me when I was feeling like a faliure
"why shouldn't we be allowed to feel like everyone else?! It's only a pill at the end of the day"!!!!
x
Hi
I am 2 weeks into Cipralex and am just starting to see the light, albeit a tiny light!
Some posts inspire me, others make me despair. I don't care if I have to be on meds for the rest of my life, as long as I can feel somewhat normal like I used to. Getting a bit concerned now after reading this post that the meds will stop working and i'll be back to where I started!
I have had councelling and am currently doing a anxiety management course but I strongly believe that its more than just deep breathing, changing thought process etc, I honestly believe there is a chemical imbalance in my brain that cannot be controlled by diet, exercise etc.
I work, am happily married, no money worries, eat fairly healthly (when not anxious!) went to the gym twice a week and swam once a week. Relaxed in the sauna, jacuzzi once a week and hey ho I STILL GOT ANXIETY.
Sorry but no one will convince me otherwise that its nothing to do with a chemical imbalance!
I nearly posted on a thread a few days back to say that no woman who's ever suffered the psychological effects of PMS would ever try to downplay the effects of brain chemistry - it isn't that you suddenly start thinking the wrong way, it's that your brain gets flooded with stuff that messes up the thought processes. I think psychological approaches are valid and important even and I think there are issues with the way that drugs get promoted as the answer to everything but I don't doubt for one minute that some people are just blighted in their brain chemistry and that drugs can go a long way towards alleviating that problem.
I nearly posted on a thread a few days back to say that no woman who's ever suffered the psychological effects of PMS would ever try to downplay the effects of brain chemistry - it isn't that you suddenly start thinking the wrong way, it's that your brain gets flooded with stuff that messes up the thought processes. I think psychological approaches are valid and important even and I think there are issues with the way that drugs get promoted as the answer to everything but I don't doubt for one minute that some people are just blighted in their brain chemistry and that drugs can go a long way towards alleviating that problem.
Hi b4eve, everyone around me is telling me to not blame myself for the way I feel but I cannot get past the feeling that my anxiety is a character flaw. I've had a partner with extreme pms so I KNOW empiricly that chemical imbalances affect brain chem but why can I not stop blaming my self for everything. I've taken a couple of days off work (but I'm still on call) to try to make my environment better but I just seem to be moving one boxes and piles of cack from one place to another and this is getting me down again.
I'm determined NOT to go back to the doc for Meds as I should be able to beat this.
I wish I could believe that there was a pill to help me and that it was all chemicals
Oh bugger it all.
Marc
I hope you find a way to work through your problems. I don't blame myself for the anxiety itself but sometimes I do get very frustrated by it / myself and sometimes, looking back, I wish I'd dealt with it differently than I did. I personally feel now that the important thing is to get on top of it by any means necessary but it still isn't always easy to determine those means
I hope you find a way to work through your problems. I don't blame myself for the anxiety itself but sometimes I do get very frustrated by it / myself and sometimes, looking back, I wish I'd dealt with it differently than I did. I personally feel now that the important thing is to get on top of it by any means necessary but it still isn't always easy to determine those means
The thing is I DO blame myself for my anxiety. If I'd made different decisions at almost every point in my life I wouldn't be here. Instead of being scared to do what I need to do and shockingly scared to even go up to the front door let alone go outside, I would be confident, sucessful and with cash on the hip. If I'd worked harder at school, not chosen the wrong career, not taken the wrong jobs, not gone with the wrong partners, not been soft hearted, not allowed myself to be domestically abused etc etc etc. I was weak, weak WEAK at times when I needed to be strong. All these bad decisions have resulted in my current weakness and inability to cope. Maybe my depression isn't a chemical illness but a slow burning realisation that I'm a screw up.
I was fine when on the cit but now I really cannot cope now I'm off of it, What sort of a man am I that I can't cope with life without a bloody tablet.
I can see what you mean about 'by any means necessary'. However, I'm trying to not surrender to the meds yet if at all. I'm going to beat this even if it kills me.
I have only read the first post, and your last one trundler.. Im sure theres been plenty of advice given :)
I just wanted to say though, try not to feel mad or insane or anything else! I feel similar sometimes, I look at what others around me seem to do so easily and I always end up feeling weak and pretty depressed about it all (although Im sure they have their problems too!).
My life now is a world away from how it was 7-8 yrs ago and unfortunately its taking me longer to get better than I would have hoped. But so be it.
Anyway, back on point.. Its no wonder you dont want to make those calls. Tbh, who would!? Most of the time you're probably told where to go, and I think theres only so much of that anyone could take, thick skin or none.
Its probably already been said, but a counseller might be a nice idea.. just someone impartial to chat to, just get stuff off your chest with someone who wont judge or tell anyone else what you've told them. I shunned it to begin with, but in reality it became something I looked forward to, just to get it all of my chest, have a good cry or whatever.. (until it got pulled out from underneath me! Apparently being put on a 2yr wait list for cbt means you're allowed naff all in the meantime, nice!).
If I could cope with the side effects I would be on medication too, Im sure it would make life a damn site easier than how it is now. Dont be ashamed of it.
good luck x.
Just spotted your very last post!
I too blame myself. If ever i have a cry, which is often lately.. I realise just how much I do blame myself.
All of my problems came about when my partner died, and in part, because of it.. I was pregnant, and basically I chose to give up work (in part due to depression aswell) stay inside where I could keep me and my unborn baby safe.. But that started off the health anxiety (-staying in away from the germs!?!), and also the agoraphobia.. I had my first panic attack in the cinema, and rather than face my fears I made damn sure I didnt go near the place again! Then more places became harder, and so the more I stayed in.. But did I realise at the time I was becoming agoraphobic, did I realise that staying in away from all the dreaded stuff I could catch could make me have health anxiety? No. If I did know that I would have done things a whole lot differently!
I also ended up with an ectopic pregnancy a few yrs back that triggered my health anxiety to a whole new level.. And rather than look at that rationally I still blame myself for the whole lot, and also for the way Ive dealt with it.
I think the thing to do is not look back, whatever reason bought you to the place you are they dont really matter, what matters is how you deal with it now.
I think you will come out of this the other side much stronger. You seem perfectly sane, normal, strong.. whatever, you're just struggling and will learn how to deal with it, cope and also get better.
Dont be too hard on yourself. Its hard enough when the going gets rough, without giving yourself a battering in the meantime! x
As someone who used to work in a call centre, for *cough*B*cough*T*cough*, and who used to "cold call", I fully appreciate where you're coming from. On a good day, this type of job is arduous, to the anxious and unconfident ones amongst us they are an absolute pigging nightmare. I feel for you, I really do.
The only thing there I can suggest is that you work to a flexible script of your own writing, and practise making calls - either in your head or with a friend so you can become confident in your own way. xx
I always remember something my doctor said to me a few years back about taking meds, when I didn't really want to go back on them. people with physical illnesses have to take meds, high blood pressure, heart disease, cholesterol, etc...some, have to take them for the rest of their lives, otherwise they are unable to function or even survive without them. What is the difference with mental health? If you have to take meds to function and even survive, then so be it! I understand what you are saying about not having all that on your records, because it may make adoption harder, but surely there has to be a way around it, and surley that is something that cannot and should not be held over you as a reason to not grant you adoption! I would say that is discrimination! The fact that you acknowledge that you have a problem, along with half the population of the world, maybe more, should work in your favour. The fact that you are willing to help yourself and have sought treatment, should work in your favour. I would be more concerned about not having this under control, than not being on meds.
I know myself, there are periods in my life when I don't need my meds and I can have a run of a year or 2 without them, but when I need them, I take them...if I have to stay on them for the rest of my life, so be it! At least I know they improve my quality of life, and I am able to function properley and enjoy it!
I would suggest being completely honest with your doctor, if you don't want to go back to him, find another and maybe seek some alternative treatments.
Good Luck
"I have had councelling and am currently doing a anxiety management course but I strongly believe that its more than just deep breathing, changing thought process etc, I honestly believe there is a chemical imbalance in my brain that cannot be controlled by diet, exercise etc." >smb25
You realise that this is a cognitive distortion, i.e. an illogical connection your are making, because even though what you are feeling seems overwhelming, massive and dramatic to you, this doesn't mean that any possible treatment has to be overwhelming, massive and dramatic as well. CBT techniques might appear inappropriately lightweight to you, but that doesn't mean they are not working. Because they do. CBT is by far the most successful treatment for anxiety and panic these days.
"If I'd worked harder at school, not chosen the wrong career, not taken the wrong jobs, not gone with the wrong partners, not been soft hearted, not allowed myself to be domestically abused etc etc etc. I was weak, weak WEAK at times when I needed to be strong." >Trundler
Blimey! How is anybody supposed to feel remotely confident and at ease with themselves whilst laying into themselves in such a horrendous way? What's more, these are all regrets that are in the past, which means they can't be changed. It's totally futile and nonsensical to beat yourself up about it!
Wouldn't it be much more constructive to look at these things, acknowledge them and try to learn from them in order to have a different outcome the next time round? Because how is anybody going to learn anything, if not through some mistakes? And isn't this expectation never, ever to make any mistakes whatsoever incredibly unrealistic in the first place? Not to mention extremely blinkered and unkind towards yourself? Who are you trying to be: Superman?
Nobody treating themselves like this would feel good about themselves. The thing is, though, that it you and your incredibly brutal and negative attitude that is causing your dejected outlook on life. Life itself is generally much kinder!
"I have had councelling and am currently doing a anxiety management course but I strongly believe that its more than just deep breathing, changing thought process etc, I honestly believe there is a chemical imbalance in my brain that cannot be controlled by diet, exercise etc." >smb25
You realise that this is a cognitive distortion, i.e. an illogical connection your are making, because even though what you are feeling seems overwhelming, massive and dramatic to you, this doesn't mean that any possible treatment has to be overwhelming, massive and dramatic as well. CBT techniques might appear inappropriately lightweight to you, but that doesn't mean they are not working. Because they do. CBT is by far the most successful treatment for anxiety and panic these days.
"If I'd worked harder at school, not chosen the wrong career, not taken the wrong jobs, not gone with the wrong partners, not been soft hearted, not allowed myself to be domestically abused etc etc etc. I was weak, weak WEAK at times when I needed to be strong." >Trundler
Blimey! How is anybody supposed to feel remotely confident and at ease with themselves whilst laying into themselves in such a horrendous way? What's more, these are all regrets that are in the past, which means they can't be changed. It's totally futile and nonsensical to beat yourself up about it!
I find I dwell on how better things would have been if I had made different decisions.
Wouldn't it be much more constructive to look at these things, acknowledge them and try to learn from them in order to have a different outcome the next time round? Because how is anybody going to learn anything, if not through some mistakes? And isn't this expectation never, ever to make any mistakes whatsoever incredibly unrealistic in the first place? Not to mention extremely blinkered and unkind towards yourself? Who are you trying to be: Superman?
I've learned from mistakes I just wish I'd learned the lessons earlier. I'm just trying to be normal. What guts me is the members of my family who had trades are all sitting pretty but me who went for a career which went pear shaped feels sneered at. My family both nuclear and extended are pretty driven and harsh with themselves and I feel that if I was more like that I would be more successful. *
Nobody treating themselves like this would feel good about themselves. The thing is, though, that it you and your incredibly brutal and negative attitude that is causing your dejected outlook on life. Life itself is generally much kinder!
The examples I got in life is that if you are not brutal with yourself you will not succeed.
I can't cope with these feelings without the meds. The meds make the negative feelings less invasive and allow me to function normally. I have to put my hands up, admit defeat and failure and go to the doctors in the morning and ask to go back on the Cit.
I have failed. I took the meds, got better and failed to stay better. Better to admit it now and climb back up than spiral further down.
*some members of my family are fantastically emotionally controlled and I wish I could be more like that instead of like this, a cornucopia of fears, panics and anxiety.
"I'm just trying to be normal." >Trundler
Which is why you are getting so frazzled: Ask a hundred people about their definition of 'normal', and they will come up with a hundred different definitions. There is no such thing as 'normal' - there is only 'average'. And trying to be everybody's darling, i.e. to live up to everybody's expectations (and their definitions of 'normal'!) only will get you torn to shreds. It's impossible succeed that way - so, why even try?
"The examples I got in life is that if you are not brutal with yourself you will not succeed." >Trundler
In reality you will find that it's precisely the other way round! Unless you're a masochist, that is....:winks:
"I can't cope with these feelings without the meds. The meds make the negative feelings less invasive and allow me to function normally. I have to put my hands up, admit defeat and failure and go to the doctors in the morning and ask to go back on the Cit." >Trundler
Don't you realise how abjectly illogical you are here? On the one hand you say you can't cope with your feelings and want to go on meds, yet on the other hand you insist on inflicting these same-self feelings onto you. In other words: You are causing yourself to feel this badly about yourself, and insist that this is the attitude you have to adopt - and then you want to get on meds in order to soften the blow.
Wouldn't it be much more logical and make much more sense to stop the blows in the first place? I mean, it's you who is doing this to yourself - nothing and nobody else! Why on earth are you treating yourself like this!?
Oh, and one last thing: Constantly comparing yourself to others, be that family members, colleagues or even friends, is one of the surest way of making yourself feel miserable and utterly inferior. Again, it's you who is doing this!
If you want to get better at all, you've got to stop treating yourself in such an abjectly destructive and unkind way? It's as simple as this.
"I have had councelling and am currently doing a anxiety management course but I strongly believe that its more than just deep breathing, changing thought process etc, I honestly believe there is a chemical imbalance in my brain that cannot be controlled by diet, exercise etc." >smb25
You realise that this is a cognitive distortion, i.e. an illogical connection your are making,
!
What a load of rubbish. Smb, while some people argue that there is no proof that anxiety/depression are caused by a chemical imbalance - there is no proof that they aren't either. Personally, I think you should keep up with the other stuff as well but if meds are helping you, that's great and don't let anybody make you feel bad about taking them x
Don't you realise how abjectly illogical you are here?
European, do you really think speaking to people in this way is going to help them, especially when they are already down? You have made some decent points and yet you manage to make it sound like you are insulting people.
Trundler, European, despite the way he comes across, has some good things to say in that you do need to start being more kind to yourself :hugs:. I could have done virtually any course I want at university but chose instead to go straight into an industry which I've loved working in for 30 years but is now basically going down the tubes. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing but I'm still not sorry I did it. I suppose I've made lots of other mistakes in life too but it really is better to put them behind you. I'd imagine the way the rest of your family is has a lot to do with the way you feel but if you are not the same as them, it isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Please don't think of taking medication in terms of failure. The bigger failure would in IMO be to deny yourself something that can help you - what is the point in that? Use the meds to get into a place where you can do something about these non-helpful feelings you have about yourself, through CBT or whatever.
My husband is a great man but I think he'd be a mess without cit these days. I don't think any worse of him - or myself - because we happen to take antidepressants. Get along to the doc and I hope you feel better soon x
PS, smb, my husband has been on citalopram for about 12 years and they've yet to stop working xx
"What a load of rubbish. Smb, while some people argue that there is no proof that anxiety/depression are caused by a chemical imbalance - there is no proof that they aren't either. Personally, I think you should keep up with the other stuff as well but if meds are helping you, that's great and don't let anybody make you feel bad about taking them" >JaneC
No, it's not a lot of rubbish. It's textbook 'emotional reasoning', which means that only because something feels to be the case, it hasn't actually got to be the case. Because in most instances it's not.
And I think you're not doing anybody a favour by rubbishing any attempt at a little more awareness in this - it's this awareness, after all, that has the power to help.
As for the "chemical imbalance" chestnut - it's a cop out. And anybody using this cop-out will pay for this by rendering themselves helpless and in a victim position, which is utterly counter-productive and only keeping people exactly where they are.
Anxiety and panic are first and foremost emotional problems (which is why irrationality or illogicality is breeding the horrible feelings). The only way to overcome this is by applying a little logic and rationality that would see through the big, big monster, and allow oneself the chance to realise it has no teeth.
I haven't met anybody in the health profession who wouldn't have argued that the only way *out* is *through*, and what they mean by this is to get through one's feelings, no matter how bad it feels. That's the only way to overcome the problem.
The question is: How would this ever be possible if we avoid those feelings, or numb ourselves to them? How is anybody ever going to get through this and come out at the other end, without allowing themselves to actually feel the emotions that are causing the problem? It's not likely to happen, now, is it?
"European, do you really think speaking to people in this way is going to help them, especially when they are already down? You have made some decent points and yet you manage to make it sound like you are insulting people." >JaneC
There is far too much mollycoddling going on here in the first place. Which is to be expected on a website forum for mood disorder sufferers. Have you ever thought about all this 'niceness' probably being at the very hub of the problem? And that all this niceness and mollycoddling is actually enabling the anxiety/panic?
Mood disorder sufferers are notoriously 'nice' and the biggest people pleaser's in the universe, and though it might be *meant well*, all this niceness is rarely *doing well*. In fact it often has the reverse effect. Again, it's a cognitive distortion: Only because you feel you've helped somebody doesn't actually mean you have.
There's certainly no intention to insult on my part by merely pointing these things out, JaneC. In any case, an insult takes two, and if you feel insulted by what I have said, I am very sorry, but it would maybe make some sense to look at yourself and ask why you are getting all this defensive. There is nothing I can do about this, and I refuse to take responsibility for it either. Like in the case of Trundler (who is his own worst enemy!), only you are responsible for the way you feel!
European, you have no proof that smb or anyone else isn't suffering from a chemical imbalance and therefore are in no position to pin the "emotional reasoning" label on it -it's like saying "it's all in your mind" when that isn't necessarily the case (except possibly in a actual physical way). Tbh I am not that bothered whether anybody has proved whether the chemical imbalance theory is right or wrong. I know taking antidepressants is beneficial for me however they actually work (while also realising they are not a cure-all) and I certainly don't regard myself as helpless or a victim.
Hm, that word again, just as most of your post is the same old. As regards the latter part of it, as I said there are ways of saying things that might help encourage people to tackle their problems and ways that might just damage their ability to do so.
Saying someone's thoughts might be illogical, I don't see a problem in that but to say they are "abjectly" illogical? I do find that insulting towards the person you were replying to given some of the definitions of that word ("contemptible" being one). I simply think you should choose your words a little more carefully at times. There is a difference between being too 'nice" and going too far the other way.
So I don't think I am guilty of any "personalisation" here and will not have you foist that upon me.
"Saying someone's thoughts might be illogical, I don't see a problem in that but to say they are "abjectly" illogical? I do find that insulting towards the person you were replying to given some of the definitions of that word ("contemptible" being one). I simply think you should choose your words a little more carefully at times. There is a difference between being too 'nice" and going too far the other way." >JaneC
Let me get this straight: Here is someone starting this thread driving himself up the wall by emotionally abusing himself left, right and centre, and laying into himself with a cruelty and brutality that would never be deemed acceptable, and in all likelihood cause some very strong responses, if he treated other's in the "abjectly illogical", and furthermore abjectly vile, way he is applying to himself.
And then you come along, JaneC, and project all your insecurities about medication onto this person by encouraging him to get on antidepressants, whilst totally missing the point in terms of where the person's misery actually originates from, and that it would make some sense if he tried to stop being his own worst nightmare to himself. Great (NOT!) Very helpful (NOT!) :lac:
This is all about as constructive as telling an alcoholic to get himself into rehab, without mentioning that rehab only makes sense under the condition that the addict actually stops drinking....
"I know taking antidepressants is beneficial for me" >JaneC
Good for you! But if that really is the case, as you say, why are you jumping at every opportunity to get all defensive when someone as much as utters a word against medication? Up to the point when you completely loose track and this thread ends up not being about the person instigating it, not even about me - but merely about yourself and your own insecurities about your medication. If you really are so convinced about your medication, and that you are actually making progress on it, why is it so incredibly easy to make you "feel bad" about it?
It's always the same, JaneC, and you realise this is the umpteenth thread you have hijacked this way and diverted towards your own ends, don't you?
I don't like to take sides but i agree with what European is saying, its harsh but true.
Its a state of mind, i was agoraphobic and couldn't leave the house, i was just waiting to get better feeling sorry for myself, then it dawned on me there is no miracle cure, i just have to change my attitude, just go out and do it essentially. When i feel i cant do something its not because of an imbalance its purely because i have trained my mind to think in such a way.
This site is great and can help but i think it also leads to further reassurance behavior and if we want to beat anxiety, we can not spend all day dwelling on it.
THank you everyone. I went to the doctors and went back on Cit and even the basic act of going to the doctors is starting to make me feel better. I'm surprised how non judgemental the doctor was even going so far as to congratulate me for spotting the warning signs of a problem. I'm in a slightly more rational headspace now and I am going to look at why I beat myself up about stuff. Looking back on it I found the meds helped me to look at how I could change attitudes and without the meds I fell back into a negative feedback loop.
If I could do without the meds to do this I would gladly do so but I don't think I can at the moment. If I had diabetes I wouldn't stress about insulin so why stress about Cit?
Many many thanks again for stopping me careering off the rails
That's brilliant - so glad you've taken action. Hope the improvement continues and that you do gain the understanding that you're looking for
I'd like say thank you to JaneC.
I read what European had said about my post and did get a little upset. To be honest, I didn't actually know what it mean't! i'm not unintelligent but not a professor either, I just knew it wasn't particularly being "nice" not that I expect everyone to be nice. It kind of made my head spin but probably because I read it over a couple of times to try and work out what it meant!
Im not against CBT or any type of therapy. I am positive it works for many people. All I was trying to say is, that despite having councelling and now therapy, I still had / have severe anxiety which only seems to have subsided with medication, so I believe that my chemical balance is not what it should be without the meds.
Thanks for the heads up about your husbands medication working for many years.
:)
"I read what European had said about my post and did get a little upset. To be honest, I didn't actually know what it mean't!" >smb25
What I was trying to say is that even though your anxiety/panic might feel dramatic, any intervention doesn't have to be dramatic. In other words, there is a hell of a lot more anybody can do apart from medication, as the immediate resolve to medication is often the equivalent of trying to crack open a nut with a sledgehammer.
"I just knew it wasn't particularly being "nice"" >smb25
I don't see why what I said was not "nice" at all - unless you insist that "nice" would categorically mean to say only things you want to hear. :winks:
"All I was trying to say is, that despite having councelling and now therapy, I still had / have severe anxiety which only seems to have subsided with medication, so I believe that my chemical balance is not what it should be without the meds." >smb25
In other words, you buy into the "chemical imbalance" myth and resolve to the easy option of putting yourself on meds, which will merely help you to manage your symptoms - for as long as the meds work.
Fine. It's your choice. But be aware that all you are doing is establishing a dependency. It will be you - and nobody else! - who will have to live with the consequences of this.
"If I had diabetes I wouldn't stress about insulin so why stress about Cit?" >Trundler
If you had diabetes you could potentially die without insulin. On the other hand, you would not run the risk of dying from anxiety and panic attacks. There is a difference!
"Looking back on it I found the meds helped me to look at how I could change attitudes and without the meds I fell back into a negative feedback loop." >Trundler
Good. Just be careful to use the meds as an 'enabler' rather than a 'crutch'. If you can use them to enable yourself to tackle your underlying problems, in particular the extremely unkind way in which you are treating yourself, that would be putting them to some good use, in my opinion.
Just be aware as well that there will come a time when you'll have to 'enable' yourself. If you want a life, that is. :winks:
allergyphobia
17-02-11, 16:43
Euro, stop acting as though your theory on chemical inbalance should be taken as gospel! Let people use whatever they want to aid their recovery, i think what would help is if you stop trying to wind everybody up all the time... :blush:
Then lets try to all get along shall we? :winks:
Smb, I'm glad you found my input helpful - I'm not against CBT or any other therapy or indeed anything a person finds to work for them either. Like you I have done other stuff but choose to take medication because I find it beneficial alongside whatever else.
Trundler, I'm glad you too are feeling some relief. I don't think anyone wants particularly to take ADs but they do have their place, especially if you can use the space they give you to address whatever issues a person in having.
Dear Euro, it is you who hijacks threads to say the same things over and over again. When I respond it is often because I think there is a need for a bit of balance against some of things you say because I think there are situations where you might actually be potentially doing harm.
You also have a wee habit of making possibly fairly wild presumptions about people way, way beyond anything they might have posted (is that you projecting?). Two definite threads that I can think in the last couple of weeks and now me too. I don't feel in the least bit insecure about taking ADs, absolutely not in the slightest :yesyes:. But if I think you are insulting people or putting them off taking meds when they might benefit from them ... I'll be here.
"If I had diabetes I wouldn't stress about insulin so why stress about Cit?" >Trundler
If you had diabetes you could potentially die without insulin. On the other hand, you would not run the risk of dying from anxiety and panic attacks. There is a difference!
You have absolutely no idea if there is a difference or not in terms of what a body/brain needs to function properly.
In other words, you buy into the "chemical imbalance" myth and resolve to the easy option of putting yourself on meds, which will merely help you to manage your symptoms - for as long as the meds work.
Fine. It's your choice. But be aware that all you are doing is establishing a dependency. It will be you - and nobody else! - who will have to live with the consequences of this.
European: Not sure you have understood or not read my post correctly, I have HAD councelling and am now HAVING therapy so I haven't just taken the easy option and gone straight for meds. Just merely pointing out that I haven't felt relief from the anxiety with therapy/councelling. Since starting Cipralex, I have felt better.
I don't want to become dependant on them but if just the therapy isn't working, what choice do I have?? and its not been just the last few weeks either, this has been going on for 12 months now so I feel I have given the therapy a good crack of the whip. So yes I guess I will have to live with the consequences.
"Let people use whatever they want to aid their recovery" >allergyphobia
I have no means, and no intentions, really, to tell people what to do or not to do. But I'm entitled to have an opinion, don't I?
And what's more, this opinion is based on years of experience with the problem at hand, which made me realise that there are *constructive* ways of dealing with anxiety/panic, and there are *destructive* ways of dealing with it. And ultimately, we all have to deal with the consequences of our choices. Simples. :winks:
"You have absolutely no idea if there is a difference or not in terms of what a body/brain needs to function properly." >JaneC
Nonsense! People don't die of panic attacks and anxiety. And insinuating they do merely smacks of being over-dramatic and self-pitying. Again, the emotions involved might feel really horrible - but they don't kill people!
And again, there is no scientific evidence that anxiety/panic is caused by a 'chemical imbalance' of the brain. It's a myth started (and maintained) by the pharmaceutical industry, who are making a hell of a lot of money out of it. And the mere fact that a lot of you on here buy into this myth doesn't make it any more real!
allergyphobia
17-02-11, 17:24
"But I'm entitled to have an opinion, don't I?"
Haha, coming from the person who won't let anybody else have one!
Quit preaching. A lot of your advice I rate, but I prefer to keep my soapboxes for laundry :winks:
And again, there is no scientific evidence that anxiety/panic is caused by a 'chemical imbalance' of the brain.
And no scientific evidence that it isn't
"And no scientific evidence that it isn't" >JaneC
Have you ever taken your head out of the sand and actually looked at the scientific evidence out there?
"When I respond it is often because I think there is a need for a bit of balance against some of things you say because I think there are situations where you might actually be potentially doing harm." >JaneC
There has been a whole number of people contacting me privately over the last several weeks, saying that anxiety sufferers can be their own worst enemies. They also said that they basically agreed with most of what I was writing on here, but didn't dare to make their own views public on this forum for fear of being ganged up on and shouted down (again!). And no, I'm not making this up!
Since you're generally the one calling in for the cavalry once your arguments becomes weak and empty, JaneC, is that really what you would call "balance"?
I mean, come on, let's get real here: The majority of regulars on this forum are medicated, if not heavily medicated, in some cases for more than a decade. Which is why it is not surprising that there is quite a bias in favour of medication, often in the most superficial and glib way possible. Could this really be called "balanced"?
What's more, there are even a handful of people on here who proudly present the whole array of their different medication at the bottom of every post they are writing. Which only shows how ingrained meds have become, almost like being part of someone's identity.
Frankly, I am surprised that this form of blatant advertising is actually tolerated on this website! And no, I'm not the only one who has noticed this, as I had to chuckle the other day when I realised someone doing a satirical equivalent at the bottom of his messages.
In short: Most of what's going on on this forum revolves around medication in some shape or form. And personally, I am finding this exceedingly unbalanced, and I wish there would be some other people speaking out and confront this, in order to redress this imbalance to some degree.
It's this imbalance that is potentially doing a lot of harm, as it gives people a completely slanted and unrealistic idea in view of how they could possibly overcome their problems. Which is most evident at the depth of discussion, which rarely goes into detail, but generally gets stuck at the medication threshold, combined with endless symptom picking and complaining.
All this is probably not surprising: There are reasons why people suffer anxiety and panic, starting from avoidance behaviour, people pleasing, co-dependency issues, and so on, in short: Abjectly negative and maladaptive ways of dealing with oneself and the world. In view of this, it is probably not surprising that this negativity has the tendency to be spread, if left unchallenged or unmoderated, thus encouraging and reinforcing the negativity and avoidance behaviour in others. There might be short term relief to have found other sufferers, granted, but the long terms effects of the peer pressure involved in a forum like this with the above mentioned imbalance, is not at all beneficial in the long run.
Let's face it: It is true that anxiety and panic sufferers are their own worst enemies, and I can't help thinking that a problem solving approach that is merely being discarded as "preaching" illustrates this pretty well. But support is NOT just telling each other what you want to hear - it is a lot more, and sometimes just the opposite of what you want to hear!
The jury is still out for me in this respect, but I can't help getting the impression that this forum is failing miserably in actually helping people. If anything, all it is doing is confirming a status quo for most. And no, I can't see this as being "balanced" at all, but indeed potentially doing more harm than good.
ladybird64
17-02-11, 19:38
That's quite a statement European.
Can you explain why you feel it is failing miserably? I don't quite follow.
European,
I find it extremely rude when Nicola allows people to join this site for free and then members post things like " THIS FORUM IS FAILING MISERABLY ON HELPING PEOPLE"
How rude and how annoying do you think i find that comment when i give up so much of my free time to help.
I only hope Nicola doesn't see that comment as it must be really upsetting for her to read.
A very annoyed administrator.
nomorepanic
17-02-11, 20:28
Well I have seen it now as the post was reported so I received an email about it.
European - I will just ban all the members on medication then and that will you be happy won't it :mad:
Then I will ban those that don't like CBT or it isn't helping them - that's a load more gone. :yesyes:
What group could I target next I wonder?
If you would like to ask all those members that PM'd you if they give their permission for you to forward those PM's to me - not giving me their forum names -then I can read the comments that have supposedly been said.
Obviously NMP is not the best place for you to be so why bother being here ? What are you actually getting out of this and trying to achieve by being here apart from winding a lot of people up and now me as well :mad:
Here we go again :whistles:.. What exactly are you doing here if you think this ????? There is a balanced view and if people decide to take medication its non of your buisiness .You deal with your problems your way and leave others to do the same .This site for your information has helped absolutely hundreds of people .It will continue to do so .Your remarks as usual are rude and insulting ,not only to the members here ,but to Nicola .Your opinions have been repeatedly voiced here and duly noted . You cant expect everyone to be like you and agree with every thing you say .But theres absolutely no need to be so downright disrespectful .You should read a book on "How to win friends and influence people "Instead of coming on here throwning you dummy out the pram every time someone disagrees with you .As for victim mentality .You ARE a prime example of this ,When someone disagrees with you and your attitude . Yes you are entitled to your opinion and your say ..I think we have all got the message .Pity you havnt :lac:.Sue
Ah yes, the wretched, miserable, failing, drugged-up cronies of NMP. A pool of damaged people beyond redemption...
You have been gassing at full throttle now for some months about the abject misery caused by taking meds and yet, lo and behold, people are still taking meds... They even list them in their signature! I took my meds this morning and I'm dribbling as we speak.
You have some valid points Euro, as I've said before, and (slap my wrist) have even concurred with you on several cogent points. But all this gets drowned in your aggressive, hostile and ram-it-down-your-throat tone and approach.
We will continue to ram it down our throats (meds that is) until each individual feels ready to ditch the evil little beasts in their own good time.
Ciao from MM
I've probably said quite enough for today but you're right Dahlia - I've been on a thyroid board where everybody listed not only their meds but their most recent blood test results - presumably so people had a quick guide to where they were with their health and advise appropriately rather than a wheeeeeeeee look at me way x
scaredstiff695
17-02-11, 21:52
hi
i have only read bits of this post so I'm sorry if i say something that's been said.
i have to birdm with European in some respect
i km e this site for coming on when I'm feeling a little off for a rant and for peoples advice who have been their. BUT i do think its true so many on this site are obsessed with medication and what tests they have had done.
i don't take medication but i don't disagree with any one that does but have you really tried other methods so many people on here tell all clout switching this medication to another etc it obviously is not working. i think its too easy to be prescribed a pill and not deal with what's really wrong.
so many people on here never truly praise them selves for little things. i live terrible with anxiety and cry all the time but i gave myself a kick up the ass the other day and decided to eight instead of just living with it which s many on here do.
A pill can help but is not a cure it is thought that do this so challenge them.
foot just except living with it. x x
nomorepanic
17-02-11, 22:05
Did you post that from a phone scaredstiff as I can't understand most of it to be honest - sorry.
scaredstiff695
17-02-11, 22:06
h
sorry read some more and just wondered why are some people starting threads? cos you want peoples Orionp and advice but when you get something you don't agree with it causes arguments and insults everyone has different views etc we can't all agree life would be dull. lets just express opini butn d don'tPost a thread if you are going to get offended if its not what you want to hear x
scaredstiff695
17-02-11, 22:07
so sorry yeah i did will look back at sorry
Scaredstiff, I have to point out that both the original poster and someone else posted to say they'd found this thread helpful.
As a general point, just because someone asks for advice, it doesn't mean they are obliged to act on all of it - they can choose to take away what they think might help - or ignore the lot if they like.
scaredstiff695
17-02-11, 22:28
hi Jane
don't fully understand what you are saying i never said anything blot having to take the advice but in many people get upset and arguments happen all the time on here when some one says somethig others don't agree with. why can't the opinion be expressem and talked about in a adult way?
Sorry if I misunderstood you Scaredstiff but that is what I thought you were saying when you said
"just wondered why are some people starting threads? cos you want peoples Orionp and advice but when you get something you don't agree with it causes arguments and insults"
and
"d don'tPost a thread if you are going to get offended if its not what you want to hear"
But as Nic said, posts from your phone can be a little hard to follow.
scaredstiff695
17-02-11, 22:41
i no my phone is bloody useless sorry if it came across wrong.
i just genuinely feel sometimes people get too upset if its not what they want to hear.
i did with my doctor now understand what he means was just done in the wrong context.
nomorepanic
17-02-11, 22:47
Scaredstiff
I replied to this thread as I took offence to this comment from European:
"The jury is still out for me in this respect, but I can't help getting the impression that this forum is failing miserably in actually helping people"
Who is he to say this site is not helping people?
scaredstiff695
17-02-11, 22:53
i wasn't commenting on individual things that's not my place and I'm talking about it as a whole i don't think there is any need forpeople to insult people on here its designed to help people. I've wrote and read posts and thought what the hell but that's what people believe.
while i think that was upsetting to read that's his opinion and one that may not be shared by people. but you and many more no it does help and if it doesn't then that's up to them no one forces an one on to the site. x x
nomorepanic
17-02-11, 23:04
I agree about the insulting wholeheartedly and that won't be tolerated.
Yes it is his opinion but one he seems to think that we all need to hear over and over again yet he still comes on every day to post.
Maybe European should create his own forum and not allow anyone to join that is on medication or not doing CBT!
We don't need this rammed down our throats.
I have been very supportive of European over many issues regarding medication and CBT so I don't need it thrown back in my face to be honest.
But as you said he is just one person and not that important at the end of the day and people do still come back so it can't be that bad
"If I had diabetes I wouldn't stress about insulin so why stress about Cit?" >Trundler
If you had diabetes you could potentially die without insulin. On the other hand, you would not run the risk of dying from anxiety and panic attacks. There is a difference!
I disagree here. I've got so low that I would have done almost anything to stop the feelings. I haven't crashed so low that I've attempted suicide but some people may get this bad. I think for some people the anxiety and panic may get so hard to bear that it could cause them to lose their lives. So there si a similarity between AD's and for example diabeties.
"Looking back on it I found the meds helped me to look at how I could change attitudes and without the meds I fell back into a negative feedback loop." >Trundler
Good. Just be careful to use the meds as an 'enabler' rather than a 'crutch'. If you can use them to enable yourself to tackle your underlying problems, in particular the extremely unkind way in which you are treating yourself, that would be putting them to some good use, in my opinion.
Just be aware as well that there will come a time when you'll have to 'enable' yourself. If you want a life, that is. :winks:
As someone who has self medicated with stuff in the past to make myself feel better I can see the danger of using the meds as a crutch but then that would take the meds into the area of addiction which I believe is not the case with SSRIs, which are not physically addictive.
Trundler, please keep in touch and let us know how you are doing :hugs:
I think some people are more interested with shooting down a certain poster then actually offering advice to the guy who started the thread.
This forum can offer great support, but i think it can do damage if people rely on it for constant advice rather than seeking the proper advice.
Clearly some peoples opinions have upset others, but there is no need to gang up on said person. At the end of the day, we make are own choices and live and die by those. I personally chose not to take medication to aid my recovery, and yesterday i felt vindicated for this, a year ago i couldn't walk past a stranger or even leave the house, yesterday i was in a two hr job interview with complete strangers. If medication helps people that's great for them, but for me it won't deal with the route problem which is how we view ourselfs and how we think.
scaredstiff695
18-02-11, 14:43
very well put jonnw582
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