when life doesn't seem worth living

[On The Outside]

I feel at an all time low. I've recently been rejected by a woman who I had feelings for. We hadn't actually met as she doesn't live near me but we had been emailing for some time and talking very regularly on the phone. I had hoped we would eventually meet and she had said she'd like to. Now she's finally told me (after weeks of speculation and suspicion) that she's involved with someone and I feel devastated. I've never had what I consider a proper relationship. She's had numerous relationships because though she claims to have SA blokes will ask her out. So I'm left on my own again feeling that nobody will ever love me or want me for me.

I wish I'd just ended my life in 1998 when I first realised that I couldn't cope with being unattractive and undesirable to women. Instead I've spent the last 13 years trying to meet women and make good friends and trying to deal with my emotional and mental health issues without any success.

I don't know how I'm going to survive the next few days, let alone weeks and rest of the year. I just wish I could find someone local but I have too many issues as I said in my last thread.

[gaaron]

:hugs:it's horrible when that happens. Try and keep your chin up xxx

[LucyR]

Hi, Please do not worry about her, it was nasty of her to keep speaking to you knowing full well she was involved elsewhere with someone else. I am sure you deserve better and will find someone faithfull in time. Just try to forget about her and concentrate on feeling better yourself.

[On The Outside]

Thanks for your replies. I've not been online much recently, been trying to make myself go out for walks even though I'm still alone with my thoughts most of the time. I've survived the last few days and not felt too bad but today I'm feeling really lonely again and believing that I'll never find anyone who loves me.

I find it almost impossible to meet single women, let alone girls who understand about my issues as she seemed to. In all reality, she lived too far away for a relationship to have worked but I had been prepared to do my best and work hard to make this happen is he had wanted the same.

I wish I wasn't so obsessed about wanting a girlfriend as I'm becoming increasingly more bitter and resentful of people in relationships. Especially when it's happened so easily for them. I constantly have to make the first move (which is really difficult being so shy and having so many issues) and then end up being rejected though usually before we even become "friends" or meet up.

I'm disillusioned as well because she still wants to keep in touch but only as a friend. I could probably deal better with the fact that she doesn't want a relationship if she didn't want to be with this other bloke. That's been the story of my life, happened too many times and this has been the last straw. Part of me feels I need her in my life as we got on so well when we talked and had things in common. The other part feels too much hurt and wants to forget her and move on. But I have almost nothing in my life to move on to. I could try to make more friends online (as I have no groups I feel I could go to) but I don't find it easy to randomly PM someone.

A friend of mine believes I can still meet a girl on a good dating site but I hate having to sell myself and convince women I'm worth dating and have to compete with other men on these sites. Even if a girl wanted to go out with me, I'd still have all the anxiety and other issues but at least I'd feel that someone was interested.

[mercer88]

deleted

[On The Outside]

Thanks for your reply, Mercer88. You're right about winning the Understatement of the Year award for your observation. I'm quite a bit older than you (in my thirties) so it's been hard not to become obsessed over wanting a girl to share my life with. Unlike you, I haven't actually been loved by any women that I had any interest in (the one "relationship" I've had was with an older woman I didn't find physically attractive who made the first move - I only went out with her because no other women had asked me). Usually it's been me who has developed feelings for them which they haven't reciprocated. Then, to make matters worse, they get involved romantically (or even just sexually) with someone else.

I'm close to suffering agoraphobia so don't go anywhere now where I migth be able to meet women and, even if I did, I'd find it very difficult to approach them with all my anxiety, OCD, BDD issues, not to mention how uptight I would come across. You're right that I am a very deep, very considerate person, capable of providing someone with a lot of love. (Thanks for that compliment.) And you're also right that it's the girls who choose to reject me that are missing out. I find it hard to move on from rejections though and tell myself that it's their loss and not mine.

I am really hoping I can find the strength to move on with my life now, make something of it (despite having so many issues and almost no help from anyone least of all local mental health "care") and, most of all, forget about this woman who has hurt me so much. I don't think I've ever felt so bitter as I have this last couple of weeks but if you saw some of the poetry I had written for her then you'd probably think I had a right to be bitter and not want any more to do with her. She wants to keep in touch with me but only as a "friend" which, to be honest, I find insulting after all I had shared with her through emails and phone calls. I know some will be sceptical of the fact that I had never actually met her though she had been talking seriously about it before she decided that she was in love with this other bloke. (A friend of the one overpowering and annoying real life friend I have said to him: "Why's he so upset if he never met her?" He doesn't understand that I see the internet as my only option of meeting women who might understand about my issues and love me for who I am.) She had wanted to talk about him before but our conversations went from one topic to another as I digress more than Ronnie Corbett in one of his armchair monologues (!!) and she already knew I was very sensitive about hearing about relationships.

I expect if she had told me about him we would have stopped talking long before but, for some time, she was my only regular contact and I was very lonely. I believed in my heart that this could work (as it had done for other people I've known and read about with girls online who had similar issues) but I think now (though I enjoyed talking to her at the time and for up to six hours sometimes) that, if I hadn't felt so desperate for love and affection then I would have held back more.

I'd like to be able to just set up a profile on a dating site but I have even less confidence and more baggage than I had before. And, unlike her (who never had to make the first move in any of her relationships), I will be expected to send out messages again and probably be rejected or ignored as I have many times before. I asked her how she thinks she might feel if she'd reached my age and not been loved by anyone and received very little or no intimacy and she couldn't answer. I've come to realise that I can do much better than her and that she is a cold hearted woman and I'm better of having nothing more to do with her than being reminded of what I could have had if it hadn't been for her love for this other bloke.

As for spending the rest of one's own life alone, drinking and masturbating into a comatose state (is that what you're doing, Mercer88?!?)... well, it doesn't sound very pleasurable does it? I've been far too depressed and in too much emotional pain recently to even get any urges though I've suffered such frustration when I was younger and only made me feel worse about being without love and intimacy and constantly hearing about other people either in love or getting laid.

Anyway, hopefully I will be able to enjoy myself and eventually feel happy again.

[Anxious_gal]

I do understand your hurt.
I can see how this was a very big deal for you.
I understands the need for love and affection.
It's the little things too, the cuddles, holding hands, having someone care about you, some one that thinks highly of you and finds the weird things you may do kinda cute and sweet.
someone who understands and seems to know how you tick.

I know you deserve better but I guess you feel like you have to take love from where ever you can find it.
All this love your self stuff? It works honest but you do still need to know that you are loveable and attractive from other people too.
I think this book> the one I'm reading might help .
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0061438294/ref=oss_product

If you can read the language off the body, then you will be able to judge if a Woman likes you back.

I struggle with trust and always wonder If I'm just being paranoid.
A lot of the time we have that gut feeling but we don't listen to it because we have no evidence to back it up.
I hope when I finish this book I hope I be able to tell if some one is being honest with me or not.

I think it might help if you make a list of all the good things about you.

your also going through the proccess of healing.
It's normal your thinking about every conversation, I did the same thing my self.
"he wrote me such sweet letters why would he do that if he didn't care?"
it doesn't make any sense!!!! thats what is frustrating.
so many questions and no answeres.
heres another book that really helped me out but I did read it more than once becase it took a while for "reality" to set in.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0425172287/ref=oss_product

when you don't have a lot going on in your life it's easy for that person to become your whole world.
they bring you an insane amount of joy.
you anticipate the phone calls and the get togethers , it becomes something to look forward to.

when that suddenly goes away your left with this emptiness. this pain that runs so deep it's unbearable and feels like it may never go away.

it can help to look at the person for who they are and really ask your self if they really gave you , what you needed and deserved.
or what is the illusion the fantasy, the person you "thought" they were that you fell in love with.
because when they leave, we give them so much power when we are left in all this pain, we can think that we did infact need them because we feel as if we will die without them.
we can confuse this Power with love.

Forgive me for explaining this very badly.

I can also see you in a innocent way, a way that makes you some what vulnerable.

it's funny how we tend to be attracted to someone we feel or view as better than ourselves. we like them because they have traits we wish we had.

I really don't know what advice to offer you,
I have seen shy guys turn from insecure to almost arrogant after being with a beautiful woman.
A trait i really dislike and saddens me to see.

I'm not sure what your comfort level is, around women but you could maybe try talking to more women and build up your comfort level, even little things like talking to checkout girl about the weather, smiling, saying hello.

Make smaller goals and work your way up to the big goal maybe?

I'm not sure how dating profiles work really, I have tried them now and again and gotten pretty much no interest from any guy!
I'm fairly pretty I think, but it's the women in the bathing suites, blond hair, younger than me etc.. that get 99% of the interest.
so I can see how if thats the only way you may talk to women it would really bring down your confidence.

[ditzygirl]

Oh hun you are being very very hard on yourself.

It's perfectly natural to want a relationship and to be loved and give love - that's what life is all about.

Just because you haven't found someone at the moment does NOT mean you wont.

Hun, I spent some years trying to find love and feeling as you do, believe me I have been there many times - but the minute you stop focussing on it is the time you will find someone special.

You can also turn your life around and you have the strength to do it, I know you do by what you have written!! It takes courage and bravery to write what you have and I think you should be very proud of yourself for being so honest.

Your issues, sweetie, are very common - you are not alone in them. So please try not to worry about what other people think of you because most people have their own issues too.

The problem with Anxiety related issues is that they are a taboo subject - but remember anxiety issues are habitual NOT a mental health issue.

Forget dating sites for now - from experience you need to be pretty thick skinned, and they can eat into your self esteem so don't put yourself through just now.

Why don't you join a yoga group or meditation group, or find a local support group with Mind. You need to get out and meet people, it will be hard at first but others will be feeling exactly the same as you. Yoga or meditation will help and you will be able to relate to other doing the same as you.
Or see if the college have a part time course you could try, doesn't have to be educational, try pottery or art, anything to get out and meet people.

But rest assured Your life is worth living, your just having a difficult time at the moment.

Keep you chin up and let us know how you are doingxx

[On The Outside]

Thanks for your kind, thoughtful and helpful replies, Mishel and Ditzygirl!

Mishel

You're right that I've spent a lot of time feeling as though I have to take love from wherever I can find it. I think that's one of the reasons why I've found it so hard to understand why it's been so hard for me. I mean I've joined dating sites and other places and not been particularly fussy. I care far less about looks than I used to though I find it difficult if I don't find someone physically attractive in any way. I've never been hoping to end up with a stunner or "trophy girlfriend" like some men seem to want.

You made a lot of good points in your reply. I might not be able to refer to them all but the bit about "not having a lot going on in your life and that person becoming your whole world" was something that has been true for me. It has happened before with other people including some I never got to speak to but emailed regularly. I've known some people in real life who underestimate the power of the internet to bring lonely people together (or find support and advice that they wouldn't get from people in their lives) though usually they are people who never use the net. The thing that I've had to try to tell myself is not to rely on one person to make me happy. I already know that if and when I do find someone special, I want to make other friends and contacts. That's one of the reasons I joined this site.

Your explanation was fine. I think a lot of us have illusions and fantasies about people and the person we "thought" they were that we fell in love with. We led very different lifestyles. I won't say what she did but she interacted with many people each day in her job whereas, apart from my immediate family, I hardly see a soul. I think I've certainly been attracted to women I see as better than myself and wished for similar traits.

I feel innocent and vulnerable a lot of the time, almost like I'm still a child rather than a man. I have read posts on other sites where other people with Social Phobia or OCD have felt that they've never grown up.

Interesting that you mention having seen shy guys become arrogant after being with a beautiful woman or maybe a girl who loves them. I have seen evidence of this with a few people I used to know from Social Anxiety groups and also from reading other forums. A friend of mine who found his first girlfriend last year at the age of 30 still sounds very much the same when I speak to him on the phone. He's really grateful for what he's got and also not the type who would rub it in people's faces as he's known and even been friends with people who have boasted and bragged about their conquests. I couldn't ever imagine doing this to someone especially if I felt they were worse off than me or had waited even longer to find love. My confidence and self esteem are things I really need to work on but I agre that arrogance is not an attractive trait.

It's been some time since I've really interacted with women (or even people in general) when I'm out. I have a friend who is shy around women he likes but otherwise might seem like an extrovert (but he also often doesn't think before he opens his mouth and can be quite tactless at times). He will make conversation with some people about the football results and can sometimes make small talk with the person serving behind the bar. He tends to do the asking though. I used to but don't as often as I used to before some of my worst issues (those about how I look and how I come across) became worse.

So, for the last few years, most of my contact with women has been online, on support sites and briefly on social networking sites. I used to go to several Social Anxiety related groups but had some bad experiences with people which put me off. But thes groups tended to be dominated by males and I even remember a very early meeting when a young man and woman (both in their early twenties) hooked up very quickly. There were expectations for others to do so and a few did at other meets but I was never successful. I did have an occasion though where I went for a meal with a girl afterwards which I thought we both enjoyed. I even sat talking with her in her car while I was waiting for a lift! But, after a couple of emails, I neevr heard from her again.

For me, dating profiles and sites seem to be based on luck (as well as looks!). I mean, I have times when I feel I'm fairly good looking but I almost never got messages and found it difficult to send any out (apart from possible rejection or indifference, I overthink everything instead of just writing a quick message and clicking send - OCD is a curse) I've heard other people say they've had loads of messages and some shy girls get a lot but also seem to be bombarded by pervs asking for the obvious. I can'tr be anything other than polite and respectful though it's got me nowhere in life.

Thanks for the book recommendations. :)


Ditzygirl

Sorry to hear you had to wait a long time for love as well. I have noticed with other things in life that they turn up when I least expect them (I used to collect all kinds of rare records and magazines which were impossible to find but, years later, when I don't have the room to keep them or so much interest, they turn up on eBay almost instantly!!). One thing I have found with my illness is that having an obsessive, one track mind can make living a normal life very difficult. I've spent most of my life being fixated on a particular thing, often to the exclusion of everything else. I've had times where I'ev attributed everything to my illness and thought things like "it's not me, it's my OCD" which may have sounded like a cop out. Sometimes it's even more frustrating that I know and recogniose most of my problems but don't know how to stop such thinking and change myself!!

Thanks for your compliments! I do actually take pride in being so honest though I can be too much so at times and way to open with some people. Then again, I would feel bad about myself if I lied and tried to deceive people as some seem to. I've met people in life and online who have tried to deceive me and, fortunately, I saw through them.

I agree that anxiety issues are habitual. A lot of my other issues are related to mental health though.

I've heard even confident people don't always get the results they want from dating sites. I think what has surprised me in recent years is the number of shy, socially anxious )or even phobic) people who have somehow connected and eevn got together. I used to assume shy people would find it hard to get dates or romantic partners but for some it seems the one thing they can do.

I am going to try to do a few things, maybe join some groups if I can get in the right frame of mind. I seem to be locked into constant procrastination and never really get the push to break out of my thinking and do something. There's very little going on where I live and I think I exhausted the local mental health groups. I'd like to do something worthwhile though but I need to try to hold back my expectations.

[Bill]

Just a thought but there's a saying "to win a war, you first must get to know your enemy, to get into their minds, to think as they do to anticipate their next move". In other words, to meet the woman who is out there looking for you, you need to think what she will be doing to try and meet you and to search in the places where you share the same interests otherwise you'll never find her and meet those who are incompatible.

I think these days alot of written contact is made over the Net but have you mental health charities that post penpal lists? There are Alot of people suffering from similar issues who feel trapped in homes who still don't have access to the Net. Just a thought in case it's of help.

I'm fairly pretty I think, but it's the women in the bathing suites, blond hair, younger than me etc.. that get 99% of the interest.

One other thought is as Mishel says about the Net, in a penpal list you are attracted to peoples personalities and interests rather than appearance because no photo is included at the beginning which also means the right people are attracted to others for the right reasons so therefore stand a better chance of finding your soulmate who is looking for you.

I agree though about groups but I'd suggest going to groups that firstly you enjoy so that the women there share your interests as I feel you'll stand a better chance of hitting it off.

Don't get disheartened though. It could be worse. You could end up just as lonely by being trapped in a marriage where you don't get any of the things we all need...love and affection, cuddles, holding hands, having someone care about you, some one that thinks highly of you and finds the weird things you may do kinda cute and sweet.
someone who understands and seems to know how you tick.

Be patient. You have lots of time to play with because you're Free.:)

[Anxious_gal]

Hmmm Personally I find the more I get to know someone, and if I like them the more attracted I become, to them.

Yeah , plus romance is a nice distraction from your own problems too.
I find it hard to connect with people to begin with , so on the internet I dunno, I did have one internet friend and we used to have great chats and it helped that he had a webcam too, just for the interaction factor.

Yeah I need to widen my social circle but at the moment I can't really due much, I'm so stressed out , but if i could manage to start doing the little things like meeting a friend for coffee it would really help.
thats what always has helped me, (the thing "agoraphobia" hates) just going out, meeting people and doing things.

I did hear an old friend was asking for me, so that really made me feel good.
thats the thing about us (anxiety etc..)we really appreciate the little things. :)

I feel vulnerable too. even more so now with all the family issues,.
it scares me , relashionships, because I found last time so hard I wonder what if I won't be able to pick myself up next time?

I feel like a lost child, honestly I wish I had someone to hold my hand at times, plus with the agoraphobia it's be so nice to have someone to go places with as at the moment i suck at going anywhere on my own.

What kind of OCD do you have?

Well I have seen it wit shy people too, when they get a lot of friends they lose all their old friends, replacing them with the Popular friends....

Of course this is only one or two people I'm talking about.

Confidence is great, I see arrogance as a person who thinks they are better than me, or looks down on me

I often get shy around men I like, sometimes I cant even look at them :blush:
But I think most people do that, some are just better at hiding it!!

A few drinks could help, I haven't drank in a year I think, but even one drink can really boost your confidence and make you more likely to talk to people.

I never drank more than 3 drinks, now I can't even drink one! between the anxiety , my need for control and my mothers addiction!
.
well if you are talking to someone, act like your super interested when they are talking about something they enjoy or get excited about!
that way they do all the talking :yesyes:

I must admit I do find it hard to find people I like.
I don't enjoy the ignorant,um football crazy, boy crazy, drinking, drugs typical irish people in a pub.

I know that sounds really judgmental.......
But I do live in a smallish town.

Uh I dislike when people can't be honest I would rather know they didn't like me back than wondering what did I do wrong :mad:
She took the cowards way out.
But well done on going for dinner, I went for dinner once in a restaurant with a boyfriend and I found it sooo nerve wracking!
It's hard to sit still with no where to hide :blush:

I get times too where I lose confidence in my looks.
It helps when you get outside feed back from people , whether its just a look or a nice compliment.

as far with being honest, it's good to be mysterious, not let the person know everything about you, its good to get to know someone slowly.
like reading a book, it wouldn't be as fun if you read it in 5 minutes!
you want the person to want to turn the next page because they want to know more.

Yeah I have read a lot of self help books, but those 2 are quite good.

[SHYGIRLAJB]

Hi, On The Outside.

I would try and focus on making new friends rather than finding a girlfriend. There you can sort of build up your confidence and what not and who knows what will happen.

Do you know if there any like sort of clubs or drop in sort of centre for people with mental health, anxiety problems etc in your area, that you could go to.

Carry on trying to go out often (other wise staying inside may become a habit) How about meeting a friend for a coffee or something??

Hope you are ok.

Anita.

[On The Outside]

Hi, On The Outside.

I would try and focus on making new friends rather than finding a girlfriend. There you can sort of build up your confidence and what not and who knows what will happen.

Do you know if there any like sort of clubs or drop in sort of centre for people with mental health, anxiety problems etc in your area, that you could go to.

Carry on trying to go out often (other wise staying inside may become a habit) How about meeting a friend for a coffee or something??

Hope you are ok.

Anita.


I have one friend I meet up with regularly who I've known for ten years but he can be very difficult and he also often says quite tactless things and about sensitive subject matter. I met up with him on Saturday afternoon but can't see him too often as he's so intense.

I've been to a lot of groups and drop in centres in the past and usually ended up meeting the wrong sort of people. (I've had a few who have used me as an emoytional crutch and even behaved in a stalkerish way towards me.) The local services are really poor and I was actually discharged last August after seeing a consultant psychiatrist from hell! (The sort of person who you'd wonder why on earth they're in that profession as she was really cold and had no empathy.)

I did make one really good friend (on a course at a workshop for people with problems) who I knew for six years but he sadly died in 2006. I've also used Meetup at times and been to groups on there but, again, ended up meeting people who turned out to be users and manipulative of me and my generosity. If I hadn't had these bad experiences (and ioften heard about other people finding really good friends, romantic partners etc) I would probably try again. But I keep looking at localish groups on Meetup (which are about 20 miles away) and haven't found any that are inspiring or there are people who go who I fell out with in the past who I want to avoid seeing.

I think services vary in different areas as I've spoken to people online who've had really good therapists and social workers and groups where they meet caring and friendly people. I find it hard to believe it sometimes why I've met so many cold, detatched and even aggressive people in groups I've been to. It just feeds into my thoughts about being unlucky.

I do really need to make some new friends though whether I find a girlfriend or not. But, like a lot of people here, I have issues with trust, even more so after the way I've been treated by this woman who was very special to me. I'm grateful for a friend I made on another site who I phone regularly as he's really helped me the last few weeks but I don't want to take up too much of his time as he has things he needs to do.

I thought about possibly posting on here to see if I can find any local friends or people I wouldn't have to travel far to meet. I'm better one to one than in groups as I often feel like a fly on the wall seeing everyone else chat and interact. The only thing is I've posted looking for friends on other sites and never heard from anyone.

[ditzygirl]

Sweetie

I think you should put something on here to see if others in your area want to meet up.
I know many other do meet up, not so easy for me coz I am a long way from most of you.

I am sorry you meet the wrong people but keep being positive. You are incredibly sensible, you know you attract the wrong people and its easily done - I have had friends in the past that I would never have now!!!

Have you thought about volunteering for something ? Volunteering is a great way to build your self confidence and meet new people. From the way you write you are intelligent and sensible and have a lot to give.

I don't know if you have one of these groups in your area:

The BTCV Green Gym®

I think they combine depressive type illness with conservation. You learn new skills, get fresh air with people you can relate too.

Keep thinking positively - your life can change and we are here to help youx

[On The Outside]

Thanks, I've just put a post up in the Penpals section. I thought about doing this shortly after I joined last month but I'm usually quite private about where I live on forums.

I've looked into voluntary work in the past and even worked part time. I haven't had much support with that either and kept being moved from one "training co-ordinator" (or whatever their title was) to another. But I would like to work again at some point. Every decision I make seems to be very difficult due to my constant obsessive thinking and self doubt. I want to try to think positive (but not get my hopes up too high about anything) though and not get so caught up in negative thinking.

I'll look into the BTCV Green Gym as I've not heard of them before.

[Anxious_gal]

I do know theres a group here I think that meet often but again it depends on where you live.
But how amazing would that be to not have to worry or hide all your anxiety and issues!
Oh I'd be the same about giving out my address too.
way too paranoid lol.