Citalopram and Serotonin

[scorpiosun]

Hi Guys

I have been looking at this site for about 4 months now, but only just registered today. I found this site early Oct 2010 after my doctor prescribed me citalopram in an attempt to decide whether I should actually take it or not. My upteenth breakdown the next morning at work actually did the convincing though and I started to take it that day.

My question though - I have suffered virtually no side effects, and after approx 1 month I started to feel better. I cannot even say I feel like my old self because (I am now 44), I actually really don't remember feeling this good. I still have anxieties and low(ish) self esteem, but I am able to put everything into perspective like I have never done before. After years of crashing in and out of anxiety / depressive periods I now feel almost human.

So here is my question - is it possible that I have either not produced enough, or reuptaked (if that's a word) too much seritonin my whole adult life. I.e. is it possible that this has been a permanent condition with me, and if that is the case why would I stop taking citalopram?

I know that sounds like an addictive statement, but if I were suffering from a long term physical disease, and needed medication to assist it, there would be no question about me being able to take that medication for life, so why is it different for mental illness.

I have read so much on this site about how to come off citalopram, and that it we will not be on it for life. I just wondered if I could get some opinions on what I have said and whether you think I am just speaking from an addictive (physcological) point of view or whether my thiniking has some validity.

BTW - I thank everyone who has posted on this site. I have gained so much knowledge and support from just reading the posts and the brilliant information on this site, that alone has been a great help to me.

Thanks
Donna
xx

[JaneC]

Hi Donna :welcome:

You may get others disagreeing, but there are those of us on here who find it necessary to take antidepressants on a long-term basis - I prefer to look at it as long-term rather than permanent but it may well be the latter in my case. I certainly wouldn't feel under any pressure to come off them anytime soon if you don't want to, but it might be worth while taking advantage of feeling better by reading some self-help books about anxiety/depression/relaxation, things like that, rather then relying on meds on their own.

Again, there are those who will argue that there is no proof that anxiety/depression have their roots in a chemical situation in the brain - my response would be to say there is no proof there isn't, and I've certainly benefited hugely from taking ADs.

It comes down to personal choice (or need) in the end, so do what feels right for you xx

[scorpiosun]

Thanks Jane, that's really appreciated. I have some computerised CBT classes organised (on the NHS) and if there are any books anyone can recommend to read I would appreciate it. Now I have realised this has been happening I really want to get all the info I can to prevent future problems.

Thanks
Donna
xx

[JaneC]

Good stuff Donna, there's a book list here:

http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/articles/reading/

A lot of people on here swear by Claire Weekes.

Brilliant Cognitive Behavioural Therapy: is also pretty good for starting out with.

Or there's Mind Over Mood: Change How You Feel By Changing the Way You Think by Christine A Padesky and Dennis Greenberger , which is what my psych used when I first started doing CBT, although it's a bit more expensive x

Edit: Sorry Donna, I;ve changed to better link

[scorpiosun]

Hi Jane

Thanks - I have ordered the mind over mood one as it seems to be as much of a workbook as an information book. I have done a lot of reading over the last few years and to be honest, thought I had got a grip of this so to a large extent I am in a situation where I actually know what to do, but just don't do it. So this may force me to actually apply some of the knowledge.

Do you have any idea of a good 'medical' book to read. As well as trying to fix myself, I would love to read about what causes this from a medical point of view. I know there are only theories, nothing is proven, but it would be interesting all the same.

Many thanks for your help Jane.

Kindest regards
Donna
x

[JaneC]

Nothing I've read myself Donna but have a look on Amazon. I thought these looked interesting

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Depressive-illness-curse-strong-Tim-Cantopher/dp/0859699749/ref=cm_lmf_tit_3

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Depression-Treatment-Aaron-T-Beck/dp/0812210328/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1295691948&sr=1-7

The Beck one looks quite heavy duty but if you want to go that deep he's hugely respected xx

[SanitySeeker]

Anyone that is taking it long term, i'd be interested to know what dose you are on. My current plan is to stay on it for the minimum 6 months recommended, but i want to cut down to 10mg (from 20) way before that.

[scorpiosun]

Thanks Jane. I ordered the first one for starters. The second one does seem a bit heavy, but it lets you read the first page and it does seem to be written in an understandable manner, though if I read it I think I will have to have a dictionary handy. I may order that one if I get to grips with the first one.

Who knows, I could be a pshyciatrist in a few years, lol.

@Sanityseeker. I have been on these tablets for only 4 months myself, 20mg, and I was wondering the same thing as you to be honest. If I find any answers I will let you know.

Take care all
Donna
xx

[miles]

Hi Donna,

I started 20mg in Nov 2009 after a terrible time.
Apparently you're supposed to take them for six months at least, then continue to take them for 6 months after you feel 'better'.

I'm still on them, I'm considering whether to come off them in the next month or so, so I'll have been on them for about 14 months.

If I look back over my life I can see I had similar episodes of anxiety/depression but never realised what they were, just carried on and things got better without treatment. I didn't have the experience or knowledge to look back and analyse my life clearly before (I'm 49 now).

So I too am thinking about whether I have a long term problem with seretonin levels. Although my natural mood is to be happy, so it can't be consistently low, which suggests other factors such as stress.

It would be interesting to explore this further.

Miles x

[scorpiosun]

Miles I know what you mean. I really feel looking back that this has been my problem for a long time (44 now). I rarely go through a year without anxiety pushing me over the edge, but it only usually lasts a week or two, occasionally longer, so I have sort of put up with it. There have been many times also inbetween where it has only been a day or two crying before I come around. So this technically doesn't qualify as depression so I felt I couldn't ask for help. It's the anxiety descriptions that have really got my attention, they describe me perfectly. The worry, think about, thoughts fermenting, going round in circles, thinking about every possible (usually black) outcome to things that tend never to become a problem anyway.

My thought is that if I had type 1 diabetes and my body could not produce enough of the hormone insulin, then there would be no choice, I would have to take insulin regularly to keep healthy. But if my brain is not producing enough serotonin, or it is 'sucking' it back in too quickly, I am told by my doctor that this is something we all have to put up with and pills or councillng won't help. He only gave me the citalopram to make me go away.

Anwyay, rant over. I can absolutely say that the citalopram has helped and I am going to research this more. I will post my findings (or opinions if you choose) from time to time.

Donna
xx

[HVC]

Hi Donna,

I'm 44 in a couple of weeks and like you have suffered anxiety/panic attacks for may years, actually on and off since my teens.

My lastest attack started on Christmas Eve.. out of the blue (although looking back I was over anxious about my mother as she to was having a bit of a rough time with anxiety herself and I think this started mine off!) I started taking Cit almost immediately. Prior to this latest episode I had my last attack two years ago and that was the first time I had ever gone on any type of medication for it. The Cit has been a godsend and although I knew I would have a couple of rough weeks the anxiety soon disappeared and I was able to return to work after the Xmas break as " good as new."

I really believe there are chemical reasons and an inbalance with them that causes our anxiety. I to would be interested on any research into this as I find knowing the reasons behind it really helps me deal with it. This site has been great to, I first logged in on Xmas day, didn't like to show anyone I was having a rough time but it really helped to know I wasn't alone and others out there were going through the same. I will stay on the Cit for the next 6mths as advised by my doc and see what happens after that.

Lets us know how you get on with the research.:yesyes:

Take care
Helen x

[scorpiosun]

Hi Helen. This is my first time on citalopam although I was prescribed fluxotene approximately 15 years ago. I took them for about 9 months before pronouncing myself well and cutting down and coming off them. Though in hindsight I wasn't well and this anxiety has been a constant battle. Now I have a name for it I know what I'm up against. I knew it wasn't depression except when it became extreme and it wasn't until I read the definition of General Anxiety Disorder on this site that everything started fitting into place.

I plan on doing loads of reading much inner soul searching and hopefully I can sort me out.

Good luck with your own journey and take care of yourself.

Kindest regards
Donna
xx

[HarrogateChris]

I was discussing this issue with my therapist this evening. One of the interesting things about the brain is how it can rewire itself and change the way in which it works. My hope is that by working on the root causes of my anxiety and depression I will rewire those problematic parts of my brain and can stop taking the cit.

I saw an interesting paper in Psychiatry Research: Neuroimaging (http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/journaldescription.cws_home/522789/description) (a scientific journal I am sure we all read regularly) which decribed how a MRI study showed that mindfulness practice can cause measurable changes in the physiology of the brain in as little as eight weeks! (Abstract here (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21071182)) (Paper Here (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TBW-51F813Y-2&_user=10&_coverDate=01%2F30%2F2011&_rdoc=7&_fmt=high&_orig=browse&_origin=browse&_zone=rslt_list_item&_srch=doc-info%28%23toc%235153%232011%23998089998%232795751% 23FLA%23display%23Volume%29&_cdi=5153&_sort=d&_docanchor=&_ct=15&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c19bf93d5585fe51d83fdf0cadcd323e&searchtype=a))

I like to think of cit as buying me the time to rewire my brain.

Chris

[cathy s]

Hi Ladies

This is a very interesting post. I feel the same as you scorpiosun; I wonder if I may need medication long term. I'm 40 this year and am on week 5 of 20mg cit. (I was on it once before for about 3 years) It has helped me in the same way as you - I worry and ruminate alot, but don't realise it half the time! I think JaneC has given some excellent advice and information. The books she's mentioned have helped me alot esp. Claire Weekes. Not so much the workbooks for me as I found this caused me to keep introverted in thinking about how I feel and what I think all the time. But that's just me!
My doctor told me alot of people who take citalopram stay on it for life. The thing about this site is that the people on it are pro-active in supporting each other and finding and sharing ways to recover, so I guess these are the type of people who are more likely to, and ultimately in a better position, to consider coming off if they feel they have built the foundations to keep them well.

Other books I feel have been beneficial to me have been;

The Worry Cure - very good to understand why we worry and what to do about it.
Depressive Illness, the curse of the strong - that was very positive about medication and makes you realise how much you do and we need to stop and take care of ourselves first. It's very easy and quick to read.
The Mindfull Way Through Depression also very good.

I don't think the docs can decide if brain chemicals are changed by our negative moods/thoughts or the other way around.

Must put the kids to bed!

Good luck!

Cathy