I want to stop CBT

[daisycake]

Basically as I've said. I don't like it - the person doing it is only a trainee and I feel using me as a sort of guinea pig. I get told what to say - when I ask about something else I get asked to stay on topic. He says he can only help me with one aspect of my life - i.e. going to uni and my functioning monday to friday, he cannot and wont help me with anything else - and the other stuff is what's most difficult. He said he wasn't happy about me seeing my GP - which frightens me as I rely on her support at the moment - and he said if she carries on doing tests he will need to collaberate with her as I need to believe all my symptoms are just anxiety - and they're not. Even my GP agrees with that and is sending me to the hospital for that reason. I'm too scared to tell him all this though. I've also been reffered to get more help with my dyspraxia at Uni and that will bother him too as he says I use it as a tool to beat myself up with or to get more attention for myself. He says I have a dependent personality disorder too?

I tried asking him about other things, namely intrusive thoughts and the nfact that someone once told me this might mean OCD but he shrugged it off and said I was using diversionery tactics to avoid talking about my real worries which is not true.

He said he is going to get me to do deep progressive relaxation therapy in his office too which frightens me even more and I'm finding myself getting anxious going up there. I can only take a taxi up there too, costs £20 a week, and on a student loan of £100 a month, its not good - I mean I have savings so I'm not destitute but I always wanted to use them if I get married or want to do a further degree, not for taxis to the hospital!

I doubt they'll let me though as according to one of their quizzes I score severe for anxiety and depression and I'm an exceptionally complicated/complex case because there's so much going on; and I've s/h too in the past so will they section me if I ask to stop?

I've heard so much about mental health help from my mum and I'm terrified of it basically. I want to ask my GP for help but I only saw her on Friday and I'm not sure if I can phone so soon :shrug: - she is very very nice but I'm so scared of upsetting her, she got my full history from CBT last week (3000 words) a lot of which I have not yet told her myself and I'm so frightened she'll change her opinion of me and not want to help anymore.

Basically I don't know what on earth to do anymore, please help me.

[thetube82]

'I want to stop CBT
Basically as I've said. I don't like it'


stop doing it, nobody forces you to do it!!

however, i would suggest you discuss your concerns with your therapist and GP first, maybe CBT aint for you and you need another approach??
Also, I think it is very very unlikely you will be Sectioned for stopping CBT, as far as i am aware you can only get Sectioned if you are deemed at severe risk to yourself or others? best to check the true rationale for getting Sectioned out rather than guessing at it though, and i am unsure of Scottish mental health act (i take it ya Scots by the flag??!!)

thetube82

[mtatum4496]

Daisy, based on what you've shared here, I think the problem is not necessarily the CBT, but the trainee that you are working with.

Having been to a therapist or two myself in years past, I can tell you that just like medications, there are therapists who can help bring about a world of good and others that just make things worse.

Is there any possible way to be reassigned to someone who might be a little more compatible?

[European]

"Daisy, based on what you've shared here, I think the problem is not necessarily the CBT, but the trainee that you are working with." >mtatum4496

Maybe that is the case. But maybe it could also be the case that the therapist is on to something, which is stirring up Daisy's defences. Because there is always going to be high anxiety when it comes to facing the truth, let go of past and maladaptive defence mechanisms without quite managing the trust and vision yet in order to know where all this could lead to. That's in the nature of therapy. Just a thought.

In any respect, daisycake, this is about you, and people are trying to help you. But this can only happen if you actually tell people about your insecurities and what you need. Nobody will be capable of reading your mind! And if things are going too quick for you at the moment, I think it would really be a good idea to communicate this and try to negotiate a solution.

Running away is hardly ever the answer when it comes to anxiety. If anything, avoidance is at the very heart of it all, and the more you avoid, the worse you will feel in the long run.

Maybe take this situation as an opportunity for yourself to stick it out and learn to stand up for yourself and make sure that your needs are being met. That is, after all, why you are doing the therapy in the first place, isn't it? :)

[mtatum4496]

Maybe that is the case. But maybe it could also be the case that the therapist is on to something, which is stirring up Daisy's defences.

Personally, I have a hard time making that leap based on what Daisy shared.

What I do get from her post is an image of a patient who is looking for answers and is asking questions, but is being stonewalled by someone intent on pursuing a preconceived agenda that allows no room for the patient to participate in her own recovery, outside of being told jot and tittle what to do.

Dismissing questions and concerns as diversionary tactics strikes me as extremely poor form and hardly conducive to getting to the root causes of Daisy's illness. Getting bent out of shape about her talking to her GP and inferring that there is no need to consider possible physical causes for her distress also strikes me as being irresponsible. Of course she should talk to her GP and she should have tests to determine if there is any physical issue that is playing a part in all this.

Will that sort of approach motivate the patient to put up barriers? Absolutely.

No one should walk out of a therapist's office feeling as if their concerns have fallen on deaf ears. All the more reason to find someone else who can think outside their own little preconceived box before more damage is done that a truly effective therapist will have to work through with the patient before any progress can be made.

Been down that road myself, and it ain't pretty.

[European]

"Personally, I have a hard time making that leap based on what Daisy shared." >mtatum4496

Neither of us has any means of determining the objective truth here, as we haven't been present. This is between daisycakes and her therapist.

"No one should walk out of a therapist's office feeling as if their concerns have fallen on deaf ears." mtatum4496

True. And yet, it is perfectly natural and part of the process that this might happen at times during the course of therapy. I'd even say it's part and parcel of it. I think it only becomes a problem if it's a chronic, as opposed to an acute, occurrence. In either case it would make sense to address it.

I think we have to be very, very careful here as total outsiders on this forum in view of taking sides, or probably even encouraging people to give up their therapy at the first hurdle. I think anxiety/panic sufferers are extremely susceptible to this kind of behaviour, which will have played a vital part in establishing the anxiety/panic in the first place. Encouraging somebody to indulge in some kind of avoidance behaviour is generally very counter-productive.

I think the best thing to do is, again, to communicate any misgivings and actually confront them. This is not easy, granted, particularly if one suffers from anxiety and panic, but if one doesn't make any steps in learning to confront and communicate one's needs, then I believe it wouldn't make much difference which therapist might be involved, as there would be any communication, or at least no sufficient communication, in the first place. Running away from this is more than likely to exacerbate the problem significantly.

[daisycake]

European I do understand what you're saying and have been thinking that all day - that I'm hiding from things BUT I don't know if that is the case. I know as well that a lot of things are clashing right now - the help CBT are offering is somewhat different to what my GP and disability office at Uni are saying. I don't want to run away from anything and am going to ask my GP her thoughts first - she's got the full history that they took so she might be able to explain a few things.

My GP did say the last time we discussed this, that anyone starting therapy always has misgivings to start with and finds a reason to stop it - and she did say it was often an avoidance tactic. But she also said that if I'm not ready for this right now, I can say stop and they will,

But said that one day I will eventually have to go to some kind of counselling - that you can't avoid it forever - so its not really running away.

I would rather - and I hope it doesnt come across badly - see someone who's fully trained - he is trained in eating disorder pyschotherapy and is currently using me as a case study for his training in CBT and I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that..

Yes bits of it I am running away from - the relaxation exercises and induced panic (he said they can only do these things if they make you feel panicy and then teach you how to calm down) but those things I know I can learn over time and don't need to or want to be forced into doing it quickly.

Will see what my GP says anyway - not seeing her til 28th but will have to try and push the appt up considering I'm meant to have CBT next week - I already cancelled today's!!

I don't want to make anything worse though and that's worrying me now - I didn't think it could get any worse than this.

[mtatum4496]

I agree European, neither of us have the means to determine the objective truth. The best we can do is look at the matter subjectively, based on what Daisy has chosen to share - hence the reason I prefaced my original response as I did.

I would recommend the same counsel to you - speculating on what may or may not be true outside the scope of what she shared accomplishes nothing.

Within the context of her original post, I see no reason to recommend she cease seeking therapy. I do see reasons to continue that therapy with someone that she can connect with and trust, something that her post indicates is not taking place with this one.

[pammy1944]

change your therapist .........i didnt get on until the second one who was wonderful and has changed my life for the better ,,,,,

[scaredstiff695]

hi
I'm currently on cbt and i have to agree with European on some respects but can see daisycake side. i opened up a lot with my threapgpt and she is very good with me i got worse though when i first started be would dread going.
but we have moved on from one aspect now and I'm feetgmg more relaxed. i see a councillor too who is lovley but has made a decision to cut backinw often i gee her.
i think that you have grown attached to your doctor and using her as a councillior but she is not trained in that BUT she is giving you the reassurance you so desperately want.
after my doctor appointment yesterday i was raging at now no whaw he ment but just think he should have listened he didn't need to check x

[scaredstiff695]

sorry i ment to put that the reason my councillgmp is drawing back is because sometimes everyone's treatment is different and it can confuse mug minds a little

[daisycake]

hi
I'm currently on cbt and i have to agree with European on some respects but can see daisycake side. i opened up a lot with my threapgpt and she is very good with me i got worse though when i first started be would dread going.
but we have moved on from one aspect now and I'm feetgmg more relaxed. i see a councillor too who is lovley but has made a decision to cut backinw often i gee her.
i think that you have grown attached to your doctor and using her as a councillior but she is not trained in that BUT she is giving you the reassurance you so desperately want.
after my doctor appointment yesterday i was raging at now no whaw he ment but just think he should have listened he didn't need to check x

A bit attached but she wont discuss anxiety much - she said she's not a counsellor or pyschologist and there's only so much she can do.but she said she can speak to me when things at home get a bit much, which CBT won't generally do... My mum and sister are both disabled, my dad makes things worse and my family (the nearby family anyway) arent very supportive and none of that's going to go away no matter how much CBT I do... especially since he will only help me with my functioning mon-fri and nothing at all to do with home!!!

It's upsetting me further as I'm going in positive and then he says I'm hiding negative emotion and then tells me I ought to feel unhappy about things and that's what they expect and it's odd if I'm happy - so when I'm happy I'm lying basically, if that makes any sense. But then on other occasions I've gone in happy and he's been pleased with me for feeling happy :shrug:

Supposed to see GP every couple of weeks or so as it is for various health issues and hospital appts/surgery etc - I do agree I do get attached to people very quickly but I'm not sure that's always a bad thing, its nice to have someone to fall back on.

Will see if they can change therapist though as opposed to dropping it altogether..

[European]

I can only repeat what I said previously, daisycakes, in that I think the best course of action would be to broach your misgivings with your therapist, before making any decisions. Give yourself the chance to actually deal with the situation, as opposed to sitting it out or run away. No matter what decision you will be making afterwards, it will be a considerably more informed one.

Also, I can't help the feeling that this whole thing about your therapist being a "trainee" is a bit of a cop out that has the intention of lowering the therapist's authority to you. There is no reason why the person can't be a good therapist as a trainee - and if you are having a problem, then, again, the best way of dealing with this is actually confronting this and telling your therapist how you are feeling.

It is totally counter-productive to try and please everybody and merely adjust yourself to what you think people want to hear. By doing this, you are undermining your potential therapy success in a massive way. In fact, you are actively sabotaging it!

If there is a lesson to be learned here, I think it would be to pluck up the courage to communicate how you feel and simply stand up for yourself. I can almost guarantee you that you'll feel better afterwards, as you will have given yourself - and everybody else - a chance to put things on the right track.

"I do agree I do get attached to people very quickly but I'm not sure that's always a bad thing, its nice to have someone to fall back on." >daisycakes

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Making yourself dependent on others to such an extent is a childhood behaviour. You needed to do this when you were a child, as you didn't have the means and maturity to look after yourself. But this is a completely different story once you become an adult (which I assume you are!).

You are not a helpless child any longer, but perfectly capable of helping yourself and make sure that your needs are met. The only one who is standing in your way in this is you yourself by still following the behaviour patterns of a child. They are not appropriate any longer.

Also, by making yourself constantly dependent on other people, your self-worth will go up an down like a yo-yo, as you are not in control of these people, their moods and circumstances, and how they are going to treat you. Which will only cause a lot of insecurity.

Wouldn't it be much more constructive to depend on yourself, take responsibility for yourself, and thus prove to yourself that you can actually help yourself and know best what is good for you in the long run?

"none of that's going to go away no matter how much CBT I do" >daisycakes

CBT is not designed to make anything go away, but it's purpose is to actively help you to help yourself. All its theory and techniques are there to empower you to sort yourself out and put your life on the tracks you want it to be on, and in the directions that is congruent with your needs and wants.

Again, since you are an adult, nobody can (and should!) make these decisions for you (as the outcome would be more than likely not to be in your interest at all!). The best way to live a fulfilled and successful life is by making those decisions yourself. :)

[JaneC]

Also, I can't help the feeling that this whole thing about your therapist being a "trainee" is a bit of a cop out that has the intention of lowering the therapist's authority to you.


:emot-rolleyes: Daisy, I think that's a load of psychobabble tbh. Therapists can be good or bad whether they are trainees or very experienced – the important thing is if you don't feel they are on your wavelength that they understand you and want to help you as a person (not via some preplanned "this is how you do it, one size fits all" thing, you might struggle to get things to work for you.

I was very ill with anorexia when I was 21 and saw a psychiatrist who told me the root of it was "x". I didn't agree but found he had made up his mind about this and was not in any way listening to me. That meant I was unable to have any useful relationship with him. Nowadays, I would be able to stand up to that, back then I wasn't, and you are quite young, too, if I remember correctly.

I don't understand why your therapist won't let you talk about what you want to talk about. It so frustrating when they don't listen and I don't see why things have to be so rigid. I can't remember how old exactly you are, but if you are not able to discuss the issues you are having with this person with a superior of theirs (bearing in mind they are only learning) could maybe your mum or someone else help you with that? I do think CBT can be a massive help and it would be such a shame if the opportunity was lost to you because of these things that are happening. Sorry to go on xxx

[Kells81]

Hey Daisy Cake

I agree with JaneC on this one, a therapist is surely simular to other profesions in that you get some good ones and you get some bad ones! All therapists have different ways of doing things so I thnk it is only natural that there may be some that we could all possibly not get on with at all.
If you are really not happy then you should stand up for how you feel and request another therapist.

Good luck with everything xxx

[mtatum4496]

Folks, let's dispense with these ridiculous self-aggrandizing verbal pontifications and charges, and get to the root of the issue.

Daisy, it is apparent that things are not working with this particular therapist. It happens. A therapist that is a good fit for one person is a bad one for someone else. His methods may be fine for someone else, but that is neither here nor there as it relates to your own pursuit of recovery.

It is also apparent that you want to help yourself and that you realize you need assistance in order to do so. If you feel that requesting another therapist will make it possible to move forward, then it is your right to do so.

End of story.

[daisycake]

Thank you all for replies :) had a word with GP last night - she suggested to carry on with CBT at present but that what I need CBT and she can't provide - i.e. just someone to sit and talk to and someone who can help me make sense of the past etc - she said that would come from a pyschologist, which she'll refer me to probably next year sometime so sounds good :) she said though that I still have her to fall back on and can keep in regular touch with her so it's not too bad for the moment, thanks for advice though I really do appreciate it

[Nutmeg]

I really hope it works out! I hate cbt with a passion it just doesn't work for me.... it worked really well with my ocd but it doesn't work with my social anxiety, depression etc. I've had good therapists and bad therapists it's dependent on who you're working with, if you trust them, if you're willing to get better etc. they problem is that cbt focuses on one aspect and doesn't let you think about anything else which is frustrating when you suffer from more than one issue. I was in cbt twice last year (so that I could function at uni!) the first time a couple of sessions in I realised that what I'd been referred for wasn't the biggest issue so we changed and worked towards something else and looked at how it all linked together. The second time the guy was inflexible and focused purely on my social anxiety... and refused to let me talk about other stuff (including the fact that I was self harming and feeling suicidal).

Oh and the first person I ever had cbt with... made my ocd worse... he admitted that he had never treated anyone with ocd and made it worse... i ended up quitting cos my ocd got so bad i couldn't leave the house!

People sing the praises of cbt and it has great potential but you need both a ggod therapist and to be engaged in it... I really hope it works out!

[davew]

Daisy I am new here and not an expert by any stretch but my advice to you would be to try and focus on the exercises and coping mechanisms you are learning in cbt and make the most of them. I am self treating using the TEA form method and in four months I have made astounding progress to what I made going through sevetral years of psychotherapy. What I like about cbt is that my success depends on me doing the work and no reliance on the therapist and therefore I get the credit as well as the benefits of what cbt has done for me thus far:yesyes: