View Full Version : Existential terror, dreading death.
Hello everyone.
I wasn't sure where to put this, so I hope this is the right place.
I am new here and was directed here from another forum I frequent, so I hope you will give me your time.
I would first like to warn anyone feeling sensitive or vulnerable, this may not be the sort of story you want to read right now, and to anyone willing to read it and try and offer me anything, thank you.
I am having a terrible time right now and am feeling completely helpless, like I've just been put on a terrifying rollercoaster, I use that metaphor not so much because of the up and down nature, but of the railed pre-determined unwavering nature.
I really just need to bounce my thoughts off of other people who might understand these feelings.
I apologise that the first few paragraphs may be a somewhat atypical case, but I feel I need to put everything out there to really start dealing with things.
I have not felt like this since I was a child/early teens (I am early 20s now) and was faced with doubts of what I had been told about death by my family (heaven and the usual lark), and I was in an absolute state for quite sometime, I was reassured about the existence of the afterlife, I think in the end it passed and I still had some vestigial remains of faith in this concept.
But as I grew older, learned more about the world, started philosophizing, this vestigial faith all but fell away, left only was the fear of uncertainty, throughout the years, as I became more and more enthralled in science, and developed a perspective of the world based on evidence and logic, I arrived at the fact that these religious promises were highly unlikely to be true, and that the most likely state after death is that of pure non-existence, imagine that of the state before you were born.
During the early phases of coming to this realisation, I was a little anxious, but ploughed through with learning everything I could about nature.
After coming to this conclusion and frame of mind, I was quite serene about the whole thing, if death is non-existence, I shan't be in any state to suffer it, so just enjoy life and when it's over, there is nothing to fear and no uncertainty or suffering.
And it was with this frame of mind I lived with and very peacefully.
But recently, something triggered absolute fear, and that was an analogy about the incomprehensible eternity of the traditional abrahamic afterlife, and it was this realization of eternity, and that even the universe can seemingly not escape this vastness (thermodynamics;heat death), this struck absolute dread into me, I jumped up, hands either side of my head, and had a complete panic, jumping on the spot proclaiming "Oh god... oh god...", even as an agnostic atheist, I can't help but use that idiom.
There is no escape from oblivion, I thought, my non-existence will be for all eternity, there is no escape, even achieving immortality (in a biological sense) would do no one any good with the heat death of the universe, there is no way to escape, I felt completely helpless and felt numb all day, and for some days afterwards.
I eventually managed to return to the serene acceptance of this fact, but a few more weeks on, it was triggered again, and this time, circumstances meant I was on my own for 4-5 days, and so it was very difficult to put these thoughts out of my mind, and since then, I have been struck with this feeling everyday, all day.
I think this is anxiety and/or depression, the way it makes me feel certainly has the symptoms.
Everyone tells me nothing will happen to me, there is nothing to worry about, etc, but it will, I'll die one day and I won't exist for the rest of eternity, I have no one to speak to who seems to understand that it doesn't feel as simple as just not worrying, as it's almost certainly the reality, how can you just stop worrying about your path through reality?
And I also in a way don't want to make them understand how I'm feeling for fear that they may start feeling the same way, whatever beliefs or coping mechanism they have in place, I wouldn't want to cast doubts onto them, as how I'm feeling and thinking is an oblivion of terror.
Right now I completely envy those with sincere spiritual and religious beliefs, whether true or not, and have a whole new perspective on religion in society,
I have become so distraught and desperate that even as an agnostic atheist, I've retreated into my early childhood beliefs and tried to be completely sincere in the act of praying to non-specific deity (Come on, there have been thousands in human history, I've got to cast the net far and wide) for some sort of sign of existence beyond death, and as scary as eternal existence also seems, right now I'd prefer the image of 'heaven' over eternal non-existence.
How do you cope with something that you know there is no cure for, I'm not sure if I can ever get back to being at peace with death and non-existence, I'm even starting to wonder if I truly comprehended the realities when I was OK with it, it seemed so at the time, it certainly doesn't now.
Sometimes I get periods where I am OK for a few hours, even periods where I can think about these things and be indifferent, but then, WHAM, like a freight train, absolute dread and a sobering realization of reality hits.
In the back of my mind, I still know that even if, as the most likely scenario, we cease to exist after death, there is an almost incomprehensible level of non-suffering involved, it's the state of absolute nothingness, I am still terrified by the fact that be it in many years to come, or in the next 5 seconds, I will be gone, just like that, just like pulling the power cord from a computer, I won't even be aware of it, and things will be identical to if I never even existed in the first place, make the whole thing utterly paralyzing to deal with.
I am truly deeply sorry if this has affected anyone, but I post in the hope that someone else knows what I'm going through, and can perhaps just offer me something, I'm not sure what, but just some interaction on the same level.
Thank you for taking the time to read my post.
Doc.
As a sufferer for over 40 years, I will attempt to try and put it as clearly as I can.
Basically, I've been there and done that as far as Anxiety and all the whistles and bells are concerned. One thing I have learnt over the years now looking back is that;
I have worried about things that have never happened.
I have had thoughts that have scared the **** out of me.
I have missed out going places because of some fear of phobia.
I have worried myself sick over the future, only to discover the future never comes!
And so on.
I have now got to the point whereby at 56 years of age I now have my own beliefs about life and death and also how to deal with it. I would not class myself as religious, but very spiritual.
The difficulty is that if we look too deeply into the science of life and death, as Anxiety sufferers we can get ourselves into a downward spiral of panic and confusion and in turn make us worse in our suffering and worry.
When people tell you there is nothing to worry about, then there IS absolutely nothing to worry about.
I believe birth to be more traumatic for us than death and I don't know about you Doc but I don't remember being born, so it can't be that bad!
I never push my beliefs down anyone's throat and personally I have found that if my beliefs are enough to console me, that that's fine with me!
Bare in mind that as sufferers we are very very susceptable to what we hear and see in the media or whatever. We are super sensitive and emotionally alert to things that will and do have even the slightest possibility of upseting us.
Most of our feelings are the cause of the past, something which we sadly cannot change. But, we can control our future to the extent of making our journey less troublesome and positive as far as our mental and physical health is concerned.
You will find that most of us on here have a fear of death or dying. That is perfectly natural because we are always scared of the unknown. Even people who do not suffer Anxiety will probably fear death. However, personally I have found that life is far more challenging than death and therefore I do not have as much fear of dying.
Unfortunately for you Doc, this may be hard to understand being as you are in your early 20s. I felt exactly the same way. In those day there were not too many books or no internet etc., to help any sufferers. It was only as I got older that I discovered I had wasted my life worrying about something I had no knowledge of and also the best parts of my life had by then been lost by worry.
Just for the record, I've had one or two things that have happened that I can relate to as being the result of past loved ones who have died communicating with me. Previous to this I refused to believe that it was possible to do this. I have never tried to contact the dead or visited a Medium or had any interest in this whatsoever and it was only after I analysed what had happened that I now firmly believe in life after death.
But, as I say, they are only my beliefs.
Live your life Doc.
Horse.
Thank you for the reply, Horse.
Something that is offering a little comfort at the moment are Jon Kabat-Zinn's works of 'Mindfulness', which I found through browsing these forums, so I am trying to let that wash over me, as the from my early experiences of it, I could see it really helping in terms of just being and getting through life.
But then whenever I find myself coping in someway, it doesn't really seem like coping, just a state of ignorance and denial, and then everything comes rushing back.
I am absolutely terrified, because this isn't a fear of some part or aspect of life, it's complete dread of the whole encompassing journey and ultimate destination of life, it's not something that from my perspective, can be cured, to be macabre, life is terminal.
What makes it worse is that I can't understand how more people (excluding the religious/spiritual) don't feel the same, as we're all in the same boat, and that seemingly, they either don't, or they do and no one talks about this huge thing facing us all.
It is compounded by the fact as I said in my earlier post, that it doesn't matter if my existence ends within the next few seconds, or when I'm 70+, as the outcome is exactly the same from my perspective, and this makes it incredibly hard to get on with things without any burden of fear, as everything I'll have ever done or ever been is snatched away in the end, without any retrospect or awareness.
It is just the absolute worst dread and terror that can't be quelled, as unless 'God' or anything of that nature were to reveal itself to me, there is nothing I can do to escape, and I have been searching desperately with an open mind and heart for the slightest scrap of this kind, but nothing.
Is just living in a state of absent mindedness of reality really all we can do to get through until it's all over?
I'm really sorry to put anyone through reading all of this, but this seems like the only place I can console in, and I can barely bring myself to type my thoughts and perspective of reality out, for fear of further compounding them.
Thank you, everyone.
hello Doc:)
understand all you are saying .........but could never articulate it the way you have .
in the night I have same thoughts .......not as extreme perhaps .......but the essence of what you write ............futility and complete paralysing fear.
just been out now to sit in garden and hear the birds sing and see blossom and remind myself that malevolent forces although apparent in the universe dont rule it . Know this is not what you are saying .............but it is comforting and helps the mindfulness that we HAVE to have to be content.
A book I think will be helpful for you is :The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying by Sogyal Rinpoche ......on Amazon .
I am not a practising Buddhist or any other religion ............but found some very helpful wisdom there . Hope it helps .
you are not alone Doc ..............just we need to sometimes to not analyse and think too hard :hugs:
Hi Doc
I really feel for you as I know what you are going through. I think that most intelligent human beings go through a phase when they question their mortality-although some people seem to be in total denial all their life.:shrug:
I do think though, that it is impossible to spend the whole of one's life dwelling on death. As one gets older and different life experiences happen,the fear fades and an acceptance replaces it.
How many old people do you know that appear to be worried about their demise? Probably none. They seem to have learned to live in the moment and accept the inevitable-which is all we can do really.
I did worry about it dreadfully for a long time-when I was young- instead of getting on with BEING young and enjoying life in a carefree way.I am now in my late 50s with cancer behind me- and whilst I do not think one has to have a serious illness to put things into perspective it certainly got rid of my remaining death phobia!
I really think you must trust in the fact that as you age a natural acceptance takes over. I believe our brains are programmed to come to terms with our death as we age. We don't even have to try-it just happens naturally and gradually.It is fine to postpone thinking about it right now.You are still young! If you can just trust in your own brain's remarkable ability to adapt as you age and that you don't have to DO or think anything to make it happen -I believe you will find one day you will be accepting and comfortable with it-as I have become without even trying.
None of us know what is on the other side of death. Either it is nothing-in which case why worry about it-or it is something which will probably be wonderful-in which case-why worry about it? Either outcome is nothing to fear,is it?
Take care:hugs:
Hi there.
Thanks for the replies everyone, they all go towards building a bastion of comfort.
Snowgoose, I got the audio book version of Sogyal Rinpoche's book, so I will give that a listen soon, I can't bring myself to sit in silence and read in this state, so audio books help relax me in keeping me more occupied and in their material, as Jon Kabat-Zinn's work has been doing, the way of being he talks about and especially his guided meditation sessions are astonishingly relaxing, but right now I'm only relaxed at the time of actively engaging in his work, I hope eventually it may offer some comfort also when I'm not.
Hi there, Chrissie, I agree with most or all that you say, and as I alluded to previously, I previously did have this state of serene acceptance that I believe you're referring to, but something has just snapped and pushed me into oblivion and now that is all I can see and think about, maybe it will return with age as you say.
And from first impressions, you seem to be right in saying that older generations on the whole don't seem to have this fear, but you rarely ever truly know someone and their deep thoughts, and on the surface it seems as if people just don't want to face up to or discuss unsettling subjects, which makes me feel even more alone in the whole thing, in a short time this forum has offered snippets of normality just from reading the experiences of others, and from the replies I've had here dealing with my own feelings, so thank you, everyone, for that.
You are also right in saying that either outcome of death is nothing to fear, as this was a perspective I also once had, and even challenging and delving as deep into the abyss as possible and questioning every eventuality, I was still serene and unsettled, but as in my earlier posts, with where I am now, it just feels as if I was deluding myself or not comprehending things, when I truly believe I was, but I am now left desperately scrabbling around from philosophy to philosophy, thought to thought, but whenever I regain any normality, the dread comes back and hits harder than ever, and I'm left feeling as if I am vindicated in my fears that this dread is completely justified and normal, even though my rationality still knows that it's probably not.
I don't want to get into the whole self-diagnosis thing, as I think that in a fragile state of mind that can lead down very dangerous self-perpetuating paths, and I'm pretty sure that what I'm experiencing is anxiety, and that's why I found this place, but I think that this whole irrationality trumping rationality, however ever present my rationality is, may be a slight degree of derealisation? It's like my rational self is just looking on and can't break through and bring any semblance of rationality to my being.
As even a number of years before this, I often felt detached from my being, I would look into the bathroom mirror and feel no connection or recognition of the fact that I was inside that squidgy fleshy vessel, and I would have moments of feeling as if I had snapped back to reality like you would after day dreaming, only this was whole segments of the day, or sometimes whole days.
I had actually researched derealization before I even had any inkling of how I'm feeling right now, but never went much further than wikipedia and a few referenced articles, as it wasn't really having an effect on my life, it just felt a little weird sometimes, and it wasn't sustained month upon month, so I didn't worry, who knows, but I just thought I'd mention it.
I'm sorry to blather on in a tangent about all sorts, and I appreciate all the time everyone has taken to read my lengthy outpourings, as right now it feels as if confiding in people here and taking what I can from the experience is all I can do to cope with this, I'm not sure whether that's the right attitude or the wrong attitude.
But I'm sure that my state isn't normal, and concerned friends and relatives seem to be able to offer little comfort since they haven't been through it, and understandably, they urge me to see a doctor when they see the state I'm in, but maybe foolhardily and stubbornly I first want to see whether I can make any impact on this 'thing' just through self-help and interacting with people in this community, is this approach possible, has anyone managed it? or am I risking my own well-being the longer I put off seeing a doctor?
Thanks for your time everyone :hugs:
Hi Doc,
I know what your going through, i have the same thoughts and feelings towards death and non existence as yourself. I think as a previous poster said being an intelligent human makes us question this aspect of life and death. One thing is for sure, we will all die eventually and i think its good to question and wonder what happens, but it is my belief that we will not be aware we have died, which does scare the hell out of me. I think its important we make the most of being here now, having these fears can be a positive thing as it can make you take risks and get the most from our lives. I hope you can find some peace within yourself and relax and enjoy being here now, I look at people in history and wonder if they had the same feelings as us and made sure they were never forgotton once they had gone. :)
I started philosophising as I started college and started having these terrifying moments of reality when I suddenly realise how big everything is. Have you read some of the other threads on this issue? I started one myself and lots of toher people have this problem. Apparently there is an extostential terror psychotherapy website somewhere that might help you.
It may reassure you to know that I thought these thoughts would nerver leave me and I was on the verge thinking myself into madness, when one day I just forgot about these spacey deathy universy thoughts! Its true! It won't last forever.
Hi there, thanks for the reply.
Yes, I've read the other threads I could find of a similar vein, which have gone a little way to offering moments of comfort, but this thread is the best comfort I've found so far, just being able to have the interaction with people who understand helps.
But everything I've sought so far has only really offered solace in the moment, the dread just returns afterwards, and I can't escape it, the more it comes, the more I feel like this is normal, but it can't be, can it? society would surely be paralysed if we all felt like this, and everyone else seems to get along fine.
I don't suppose you have some more info on that site, do you? as I'd like to give it a look.
I feel like the only thing that will really help be carry on is being prescribed something, as anything I use to cope on my own is only momentary, and I can't spend every moment just focused on coping with this, I haven't really done anything since this hit me, and I can't carry on like that, so if anyone has experience of being prescribed something to cope with this, I'd be interested in hearing your perspectives of the experience.
Thank you everyone, I really appreciate the support. :flowers:
Here's a couple os sites that might help you
http://www.howtotreatpanic.com/2010/09/treating-existential-anxiety-through-psychotherapy/ that just explains the kind of therapies they use for existential anxiety
http://www.existential-therapy.co.uk/existential-therapy.html and I think thats the site I was thinking of.
Hi doc, i know exactly what you mean and i was in the same place about 18months ago (well very similar, same sort of thoughts but just different ways of looking at it)
To put it simply my thoughts were along the lines of "I feel so terrible/depressed/anxious, i don't fear death (at least not on a logical level, i am sure if someone had a gun to my head i would've been very afraid), so why should i bother going on? it's all over when you're dead anyway right?"
this was 18months ago and i can honestly say the last 6months or so (since i got off citalopram) have been the happiest of my life despite my external life situation really not changing too much at all. I implore you to please give the John Kabat Zinn stuff a really good go and stick at it at least for a couple of months say then allow yourself to draw conclusions after that!
I meditate about 30-40mins a day and i shall be doing it for the rest of my days. Once you get in to and get in some regular practice i'm sure you'll notice all of these thoughts will lose their power over you and eventually drift away. Just as a squirrel in the woods isn't walking around contemplating existential matters neither should humans, just sometimes some of us allow the neo cortex (the analytical part of the brain) to get in our way.
And please don't worry, soon enough as you practice mindfulness more and more you'll notice longer and longer periods of calm and peace between sessions which can stay with you for extended periods until it becomes pretty much a permanent background state. For instance i recently took some medication to help me concentrate better for work and one of the side effects is anxiety. I can still feel the sensations in my chest now and some worrying thoughts but now they just seem so unintimidating and it just feels like another part of life, nothing to be shooed away.
Anyway, good luck Doc (and everyone else :) )
Hi Doc,
Oh my goodness the stuff you are saying is like you've been inside my head! it is so so so comforting to know that you, and obviously many others grapple with this fear of death and eternal non existence.
When you said it's like other people just dont think about it or worry about it, that really gets to me. sometimes i'll be walking down the street, looking at people thinking they are all going to end up dead, as complete nothingness one day, dont they realise? how can they all be so calm and collected just going about their daily business?
I have to say, I live in a state at the moment of just not allowing myself to think about it if I can help it, i guess it's amost denial. I'm a midiwfe by trade, and sometimes (this sounds sick) but i'll deliver a baby and then when i get home i think, that baby will die some day. working on a daily basis in such close proximity with life and death really keeps it in the forefront of my minf, horrible i know. but i just wish we could work out how on earth we can make our peace with our fate, like you said, life is terminal. and there's absolutely nothing we can do about it. it's the most terrible feeling, but as I understand it and as it's so clear, it's a classic anxiety issue.
I doubt it anything I've said will help you, but knowing others feel the same as me is really comforting, so thanks for posting so eloquently and clearly. x
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