[QUOTE=BikerMatt;1561938]Hahaha that made me chuckle Matt :roflmao:
We can still be fwends :buttkick::yahoo::roflmao:
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http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...ain-in-the-eu/
Are there really no go zones in GB?
No more so than the ones that have existed for decades. They aren't "no go" areas, they are rough areas. There are areas where skin colour is an issue too. None of this is new to the UK.
I'm 40 and from a typical working class industrial city. When I was young we had areas that meant trouble. We had pubs that where "fight a night" places. We had gangs meeting up at night for a rumble. A lot of this had been broken up by moving families around and better policing.
This guy is talking garbage, I've never known any different.
Football violence is nothing now compared to riots years ago and the firm's sparking up everyone around them. My brother is 9 years older than me and that was the scene around him as a regular football fan when he was young.
Spin back decades before and it was mods & rockers. Skinheads inbetween.
My dad is mid seventies, he worked hours like the guy whinging in that article and back in his day the state weren't dishing out tax credits to help families, you got a family allowance and it was nothing.
There is so much of this these days when our parents and grandparents worked all the hours too. Costs have gone up greatly but so have many of the benefits of the modern day. Looking at his clothes, he doesn't exactly fit my profile for someone really poor.
Ok...so the mass immigration has nothing to do with the so called no go zones then?
Totally crazy Terry:doh: obviously there's upsides and downsides for in or out, but why treat us like morons:ohmy: both sides lie and deny the downsides why not just tell the bloody truth everything has downsides:shades:
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[QUOTE=Superworrier;1562010] NOPE please don't reply to any of my posts ever again:whistles:
Haha of course we can be fwends:winks::hugs: x
Anyway what's fwends:shrug: a Jonathan Woss moment :roflmao:
The term "propaganda" was coined not too long ago in history in time of war, it's just the norm these days.
They lie, mislead, backtrack on promises. Just look at how the new London mayor has turned around and shafted them all on travel. Vague promises and now a "well I didn't day EXACTLY that" turnaround. Everything we despite about the slimy little toads.
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It just means that in a city, one of many, that has areas of high crime there can be larger numbers of poor people in those areas. Maybe in London these poor people are predominantly from Europe but if they weren't, they would be poor English people as they always have been in higher crime areas.
Leaving the EU doesn't solve that, it just cuts down on the European populations that may be causing some of this.
The guy bangs on about leaving the country for a better standard of living when the truth is he could already obtain that if he looked outside of London where house prices are cheaper. Given he works 80 hours a week to stay afloat in a small flat, he isn't going to be in a job that could be professional that draws him there. Maybe he runs a small business, in which case hours like that are the norm?
So, I think he is a bit over the top. A "no-go" zone to him is not necessarily the same to the rest of us, he doesn't really look like someone who is used to walking dark streets in city centres surrounded by drunks. So, no barbed wire, no "don't beyond this street" stuff. There areas like that further north due to race issues but it's not like yours in NY.
[QUOTE=BikerMatt;1562105]Totally crazy Terry:doh: obviously there's upsides and downsides for in or out, but why treat us like morons:ohmy: both sides lie and deny the downsides why not just tell the bloody truth everything has downsides:shades:
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Haha Matt best fwends forever :roflmao:
Reckon your starting to see the sense of staying in and I touched a nerve :whistles:
:bighug1:
Vote Leave if you want to have any sort of democracy or independence as a country that make its own decisions in years to come.
People finally seem to be waking up and realising the EU is a disaster waiting to happen and it's actually more dangerous to stay in than to leave. Leave/Brexit is starting to take the lead in the polls which is good news for Britain.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSbi154qnkc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0pwXLtvt2w
We need to get out now. We won't get another chance.
Read Mark Steyn's book America Alone...if you dare.
Let's not allow this to descend into campaigning though. Both campaigns are marred by lies.
Remember we didn't have control of our government before the EU existed. It allows the government to have control with less interference.
That's very different from we the people getting our country back... we never had it in the first place.
Blimey, I have tried to read it all, what members have said.
I don't know if I have voted the right one, as it is all double dutch to me.
I know that my husband has voted differently from me.
Don't fancy any of the men that could be the next Prime Minister.
Perhaps the comedian that I have never heard of would be a good choice!!!!
Same here, Magic. The level of propaganda on both sides would gave an appreciative nod from the Nazis! I've been back & forth over it and I'm not convinced I've voted right either...I can't see how anyone can be, it's too complex for us to know for sure.
I don't fancy any of them for the next PM either. I certainty won't vote Labour until the Left are back on the backbenches where they belong.
If we are going with comedians, can I put in a vote for Alan Carr? I would love to see him sitting on Putin's lap asking for him to sign his bare chest on the photo of him on the horse. :yesyes::roflmao:
*that made me smile*
I've posted my #Bremain vote after days sifting all the material and factoring in my own gut feelings
Let me ask my UK friends - is this true? If it is it will be the end of your country - in my opinion.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...gration-limit/
That's old news. It's one of the issues people want out - economic migration. We have a good benefits system and couple with the NHS, we get poorer EU countries migrating over here for free housing, free healthcare, job allowance payments, payments for their kids, etc.
It's not just the EU, we get more (I think we spend more on non EU immigrants) from outside. Benefits rules have been tightened up since the Tories came back in, since Labour ducked the immigration for a good 12 years and the benefits they created to be abused, but it's still not enough. When kids are involved, the councils have to take action to safeguard them.
So, we get a lot of immigration for people who want a better life. That's nothing new, it's been going on over 100 years here but with the lack of jobs many come over the exploit the benefits system. Previous large-scale migration, such as Indian/Pakistani/Polish nationals, came over at a time when there were little benefits other than the NHS but had more work opportunities.
One of the big complaints is every time a new state enters the EU that is poorer than us, we get the potential for mass immigration to here. It's not always truthful though because it gets stirred up by the opposing government of the time, which laughably is Labour...those who ducked dealing with it before! It doesn't always happen like that but it's still a problem.
We get people coming over here, taking benefits and then moving the money back abroad where it is worth more.
So, that article is nothing new to us. We've lived with this for decades. But it's not the only reason for immigration problems, we seem to take a lot of refugees in to when other countries get away with doing very little. Another reason why a lot of people dislike the EU.
And Corbyn? The guy who voted against joining in the first place. The guy that has upheld this view until this year when he has been ordered to now support remaining in the EU? Why? Because the trade unions have always been the biggest supporters of the Labour party and they want in. So, he has changed 4 decades of his opinions to fit despite telling everyone how much he stands up against all this and won't be swayed. Plus he was an IRA sympathiser, HAMAS I think too. He's very left wing. He would be a bigger disaster for this country than anything the EU can throw at us. This guy wanted even more immigrants in from Syria despite immigration complaints being quite a big focus for your typical Labour voter, being the working class man who can't get support due to too much of it. He just doesn't work with their voters. He only got in because the previous leader brought in a policy to pay £3 to register as a party member to vote on their leadership so it attracted a lot of left wing radicals.
But old news doesn't make it wrong news...correct?
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If people keep leaving countries to go to countries to get a better life as you say then their countries will never get better. The problem here is when people immigrate here now they immediately go on the government tit. They are not an asset to the country but a drain. It wasn't always that way. Immigrants would come here have a sponsor have a job and assimilate. But most importantly not go on any kind of welfare. They were a real asset to the nation. We have to get back to that.
N.
I am really quite scared of this referendum. More so than the Scottish independence one. There is so much scaremongering either side so how can anyone make an informed vote who hasn't done their own in depth research?
I am scared of losing my job as my office does a lot of business with European countries.
I am scared of my boyfriend losing his job as his job is directly affected by the eu.
I am scared of the economy diving a losing savings and things being more expensive.
I am scared of not getting another job because things are already tough up here in the north of Scotland because of the oil price.
Immigration seems to be a key leaving factor for many but it has no impact on my life at all - in fact it has made it better as my mum is European and my brothers fiancé is Eastern European.
Money saved if we leave is realistically not going to be seen by the general public. Let's be honest now!
I am going to be very nervous on Friday morning.
It's an OUT from me too
Hi Kimberly - Every reason you gave seems to be from strictly personal point of view. that's not a put-down just an observation. I think survival of the nation hangs in the balance on this referendum.
I do agree with you that too many people don't know much about what is going on. and worse than that they don't care. apathy can destroy a country. there is a guy here on radio who has had the biggest political talk show in the country for the last 20 years. his name is Rush Limbaugh and he gets 20 million listeners a week Nationwide, not sure if you've ever heard of him in Great Britain. but he calls the people you are talking about the low-information voter. and they are frightening. there is a license to drive a car they should have a license to vote too. One should have to take a civics test before they're allowed to vote.
N.
Noivous, am I wrong to think that everyone votes from a selfish point of view? Maybe I am wrong but I feel like deep down most people are just out to make their own lives better. And from my perspective, there is nothing to be gained from leaving. Maybe if I lived in England and my life was different I would be voting differently.
But you're right, the apathetic voter is a dangerous thing!
Hi Kimberly - No believe me as I said my comment wasn't a judgement call at all. Self preservation is a natural and necessary phenomenon of the human condition. It's understandable.
But I believe unfettered and unchecked immigration into any nation is extremely dangerous to the survival of that nation. That is simply a fact. It boggles my mind to think of everything the government doesn't tell us about what is actually going on with all the legal and illegal immigration. I suspect it is something very devious and sinister.
N.
Noivous - what I don't understand is that when you look at immigration, more immigrants are from non EU countries! So a larger majority of immigrants needed to get a visa from the government than move freely into the country from Europe. I don't know enough about this to comment but unless I'm missing something doesn't that mean that the UK are in control of letting in over half of the immigrants?
http://www.infowars.com/report-three...oint-in-idaho/
http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2016/0...m-immigration/
But doesn't that mean that the UK is not controlling half the immigration into their own country? That is unsafe and unacceptable in my book. I've attached a couple of articles in regards to immigration in both our countries.
N.
Yeah that's true, but Ive read that even leaving the EU won't give total control over immigration in order to be part of the free trade area.. So we wouldn't really be any better off unless the UK cut itself off completely, I don't think?
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-under-control
As with the refugees, I think even without being in the EU this won't change the amount that come to Britain. All the main party leaders have already decided that they will continue to take in just as many.
It's all a bit of a contradiction here at the moment, isn't it?! This is why it is so difficult to know who is telling the truth as well.. How are we to know who is lying!
Thank you for the article. Though I whole heartedly disagree with Mr. Sriskandarajah (that's a mouthful). I take some of his point. But he and his ilk are the reason for the problem in the first place. He admits that yet says it was the right decision. In other words he says he was wrong but right. That's spin. I want clarity.
N.
The issue over immigration that we can't change is to cover those fleeing from danger. We can't deport people to countries where they will persecuted. I agree with that but recently because of this we now have to spend money on MI5 monitoring terrorists who we can't deport due to this very reason. That is wrong but it's what we have to do because terrorists, well more their vile lawyers, are exploiting this policy for their own aims.
This has been said can't change because it's nothing to do with the EU. But one of the Leave backers is a former head of MI6 and states that we would be able to. I don't know what he means. Does he mean stopping then coming in? Well we surely don't have to take in terrorists now? So, does he mean we can challenge the need to retain them when they are committing acts against us?
I'm all for booting them back and I don't care about the persecution either, they earned that themselves through what they do - which they have tried to do to us. They don't care about hurting innocent people so why should people care about such a violent criminal being persecuted?
I don't think anyone can vote with confidence we don't know how it works on the inside unless we work in these circles.
Scotland has said it wants more people. Fine, let's move some and take the pressure off us but does Scotland want the benefits cases or just the hard working ones or those with money? We can't keep taking them forever unless we can get more money in to pay for it all and to support all the negatives it will bring.
I'm just not sure what the impact will be to jobs but trade will certainly continue. We would not be the first to leave the EU. It's also interesting that some of the world players in trade sit above the EU but we can't join those boards as EU membership precludes it.
I feel like this vote has been thrust upon me, and I have not a clue about what will happen to the financial state, what the sneaky eu bosses are up to, how it will affect the NHS or how it will affect us. I just haven't been alive long enough to have a clue and both sides just say each other are lying. I don't know what I'm going to vote, it could be completely random/gut feeling.
I've got both of you beat. But I don't get a vote.
But have you noticed that just about all the so called refugees coming from the middle east are young men? Wonder why?
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In the end it comes down to basics I think. To me it's kind of like nobody cares for ones child more than their mom and dad. The other nations in the EU don't care about the wellbeing of Britain as much as the British people do. The fate of their future should be fully in their own hands.
N.
I don't know but what about the camps? Aren't they more the women & children?
The young men may flee because they would get drafted. I can understand that as by drafted it can mean either side but today's conscription is not like years ago where war was seen more romantically. People now understand the horrors more before they get there and in countries that are constantly at, they've probably seen enough to be on this forum with PTSD and other anxiety/panic issues.
I guess to understand that issue is to know what the UN and the charities are seeing?
It looks like the Government are panicking.
They have now drawn in 'David Beckham' to endorse that he is voting out.
All I can say is that everyone I have spoken to in my town are voting out and I haven't actually met anyone who is voting in. :shrug:
Personally I think we would have a better future if we did vote 'In'.
I can understand people's fears, especially people that have not lived through times pre 'The Euro'. My Dad said we should never have gone in and he waited for the day we came out. Unfortunately he passed before he had a chance to experience this vote.
This is how I see it for the people that are worried about our economy, not just immigration; although that does seem to be the main factor is this decision.
We bought food from all over the world before the Euro, we travelled all over the world before the Euro, we did business all over the world before the Euro, we had more British Companies before the Euro, we had more space, jobs and the NHS was not bursting it's seams. We eat food that was not covered in chemicals, because it was our own. The chemicals that could be responsible for so many diseases we suffer from today. We had Greengrocers, Butchers, Bakers, Cake shops. What do we have now?
Government led Supermarkets with 'own brand' products. Eventually, it will all be 'own brand'. Who knows where that has come from???
We also have to bear in mind the seriousness of immigration and as we know, not all of the other European Countries take their fair share and we also know that eventually all of the settlers in those Countries actually want their destination to be England!
My mum lives in a town which is rife with Muslims. There are no English shops anymore and they are mostly young men; no women or children. They hang around in the streets all day and night and if you see what I see, you would be frightened of the prospect of that breeding. Her town also has the highest rate of TB. The streets are covered in litter, over flowing bins, sofas and fridges dumped in the front gardens, unexplained people living in sheds and garages..............
I think we need to take back control of OUR Country, if we don't do it now, it will be impossible to do it in the future.
When other point, we never voted to go in to a European Union, we signed up to a European Trade Market!!!!
I know it's bad but I haven't paid any attention to the EU referendum spiel. I don't even know whether I'm going to vote or whether I'll have the opportunity. Fortunately there are plenty of others who have an opinion and good on them. Whatever happens we'll still be whingeing and complaining as usual..
Wow...now there's honesty for you. That's how we need our politicians!
You're like Dr Zhivago. No matter who was in power, the Imperialists or the Bolsheviks Yuri just tried to live his life...you know...just trying to be a good lover and a good doctor. :D
N.
I think that's a good policy to have! Not that I have those "skillz" that is!:D All politicians are the same the end of the day-interested in the sound of their own voices and promising the world...Neither of which interest me
Drum roll please...it's the big day!!!
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I often follow some things but it's more to have a laugh at how stupid they all are, and hypocritical.
Years ago I decided that my voting strategy was to vote for who I think will do the least damage because I have little faith in any of them to improve it.
Well it keeps hovering but it's set for Leave right now. It went up to 52% by 4:30am but it's just dipped back to 51.8%. It was on round 51.5% around 4am I think.
The BBC is predicting a leave win. The traders saw a drop in the pound expecting a leave win. The south has voted for a leave by the looks of it and I would have thought they were more likely the remain bunch. The further north, the more working class & less rich, and these regions are very sick of immigration and silly EU policies coming in.
I voted Leave in the end. I was a Remain voter most of the way. What swung it for me is the fact the EU just don't seem interesting in retaining us. Sanctions could easily be placed on immigration allowing us to take less because of the lure of our benefits system. If the EU won't help us, we cant keep taking the crap for them.
My mum & dad voted Leave too. They have said that whilst shopping today, everyone was saying they were voting out. I spoke to someone in Tesco earlier and he said of their employees via a poll, around 80% were voting out. That's a few hundred thousand people according to him on the workforce. I wonder how many were in that poll?
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Wales voted out (52.5% to 47.5%). Scotland voted highly for a stay (62% to 38%). Northern Ireland voted stay (56% to 44%).
I can't understand this with Scotland at all. We keep hearing how the SNP & Greens want away from us because we are having too much of a say in Scottish politics yet they want to stay in the EU when one of the big arguments to come out is the EU having too much of a say. That seems quite hypocritical to me! :shrug:
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Some world reaction:
Geert Wilders, Dutch Freedom Party leader
"Hurrah for the British! Now it is our turn. Time for a Dutch referendum!"
German Vice-Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel
"Damn! A bad day for Europe."
Anton Boerner, head of Germany's foreign trade association
"That is a catastrophic result for Britain and also for Europe and Germany, especially the German economy. It is disturbing that the oldest democracy in the world turns its back on us."
Gerard Araud, French ambassador to Washington
"Now to the other Members states to save the EU from unravelling which excludes business as usual, especially in Brussels. Reform or die!"
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8 results left to count but the vote is over - we have left the EU!!!
So, it's a big :finger: then.
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Final result:
Leave
Vote share
51.9%
Votes 17,410,742 Votes
Remain
Vote share
48.1%
Votes 16,141,241 Votes
The UK is now leaving.
Watch out US voters, Trump is next. :ohmy:
I think it was 72% that voted. This is high compared to general and local elections but I'm surprised it wasn't higher. Voting in the general or locals is often a case of your vote not really counting when it's either Labour or Tory since these parties are largely the same, it's all oinkers in the trough together. With the EU vote, we actually did have a say in the future of the country.
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If you want to look at the results in more detail, and see the main swings, this is a good site:
https://ig.ft.com/sites/elections/20...eu-referendum/
All 4 wards around me left with mine being the largest in favour of out. My region had the largest swing towards leave too. This doesn't surprise me as it's heavily working class and we have a large number of Asian and black communities in this region. I know from talking to many an Asian taxi driver over the years that they dislike immigrants from Europe in their areas as their crime rates have gone up.
Wow! We are experiencing a major change in our lives now.
Most people I know voted to leave including our household.
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Great info Terry :)
Cameron has resigned!