Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
I'm not shocked by much of this, it's par for the course when politicians are involved.
Will things change much when/if Starmer is in charge, I very much doubt it.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spectrum123
I'm not shocked by much of this, it's par for the course when politicians are involved.
Will things change much when/if Starmer is in charge, I very much doubt it.
Your choice obviously, but that seems to be the same old excuse trotted out by many as a means of shying away from voting period and inadvertently causing the current bunch of jokers to stay in power for longer, plus it seems easy to tar all politicians with the same brush.
Of course Starmer will never be absolutely perfect, and he's only a human being after all, but I personally think he and Labour in general should at least be given a chance without being ripped to shreds willy-nilly, especially by the likes of The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Express, etc, and the usual egotistical armchair know-it-alls on social media and the like, who of course very likely have similar digs at Sunak and Co too on a regular basis.
The thing is, nearly everyone seems to be some kind of nit-picker these days; not only with politics but the most minute 'imperfections' within virtually every aspect of everyday life, many of which would have probably passed virtually unnoticed by most people pre-21st Century.
Let's face it, a lot of the old favourite TV shows, films, music releases, etc of the mid-late 20th Century that we've all come to know and love so dear probably wouldn't even have got a look in had they came out today instead, and would have no doubt been epically slagged off.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
We have centrist parties in this country. Labour is left of centre, the conservatives are right of centre, therefore there isn't a huge difference. There are a lot of millionaire MP's both sides of the house.
At the election they will both promise the earth, but will only give us morsels when they achieve power.
For decades the British attitude to political voting has been to vote for the party you least dislike. Hence we don't have the big rallies like the US does, as the parties over here can't drum up the enthusiasm. They are aware that a lot of people who vote for them don't really trust them.
Sure give Labour a chance, but don't expect a huge change. We'll have a honeymoon period, then normal service will resume.
As I said before. Whoever gets in. The poor will remain poor, the rich will remain rich. That's how capitalism works unfortunately.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spectrum123
We have centrist parties in this country. Labour is left of centre, the conservatives are right of centre, therefore there isn't a huge difference. There are a lot of millionaire MP's both sides of the house.
At the election they will both promise the earth, but will only give us morsels when they achieve power.
For decades the British attitude to political voting has been to vote for the party you least dislike. Hence we don't have the big rallies like the US does, as the parties over here can't drum up the enthusiasm. They are aware that a lot of people who vote for them don't really trust them.
Sure give Labour a chance, but don't expect a huge change. We'll have a honeymoon period, then normal service will resume.
As I said before. Whoever gets in. The poor will remain poor, the rich will remain rich. That's how capitalism works unfortunately.
Yes, it won't be long before the media, especially the likes of The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Express, etc, epically start having digs at Starmer and Co and of course the usual image macro memes starting to appear on social media blatantly slagging them off, just like what happened with Blair, Brown and Co in the 2000s, though social media didn't really become fully mainstream until approximately 2012 onwards IIRC.
Back to the original topic; I reckon there's probably always been episodes of dubious and unscrupulous goings-on behind the scenes in Downing Street and within Parliament in general under the watch of various past PMs and govts, but many of the respective political correspondents of the time probably just hushed up over them, especially if the issues at hand might have been extremely sensitive and/or taboo, such as politicians swearing and/or instances of misogyny, sexual misconduct, etc, unlike now in these more enlightened times, such misconduct and misdemeanours seem to be scrutinised and inadvertently exposed a lot more than ever before. And not just this current exposé on the antics of Boris and Co amid this current Covid Inquiry but other things such as misconduct, corruption and various other unsavoury antics among certain Police officers, especially within the Met and most certainly in the wake of the Sarah Everard tragedy in March 2021.
In some respects I'm now beginning to perceive the current decade of the 2020s as more enlightened with increased awareness of and also decreasing tolerance of unscrupulous chancers who have seemingly passed for authority figures for far too long now, especially in contrast to the seemingly more blasé and indifferent 'anything goes' 2000s and 2010s when and where the easiest option seemed to be to just shrug off many issues and bury our heads in the sand, especially when and where it suited us personally.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
For balance, don't forget, the Mirror and Guardian will support the left regardless. Terrestrial TV news like the BBC are also left leaning. TV and Rock and Pop personalities are largely left supporting, so Labour will be able to use them during campaigning, something the conservatives tend to lack.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spectrum123
For balance, don't forget, the Mirror and Guardian will support the left regardless. Terrestrial TV news like the BBC are also left leaning. TV and Rock and Pop personalities are largely left supporting, so Labour will be able to use them during campaigning, something the conservatives tend to lack.
I think political trends and opinion polls tend to be cyclical in many respects and largely a case of 'what goes around comes around'.
I remember during the latter half of the 2000s many of the people and organisations you mentioned above actively shunning and turning their backs on Labour en masse, even before the Global Financial Crisis kicked off.
Also I'm rather surprised that nobody else on here apart from you has as yet responded to this thread, especially being such a pertinent topic right now.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
I guess everyone else, a bit like me, I don't really care. We all know very little action will come out of this enquiry. They will carry on as the have been doing.
I'm much occupied with work and being with family, and meeting up an socialising with friends, than care what our MPs have been up to.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
I see your point there, as becoming invested in this whole sorry situation can no doubt be extremely tedious and fatiguing for many, plus there's inevitably the decreased attention span thing at play too.
Of course it's also being heavily overshadowed by the Israel/Gaza thing right now which is getting the most wall-to-wall coverage on the major news channels similar to Covid in 2020-21 and of course Ukraine, the COL crisis and shortages of things during 2022 and still earlier this year.
This time next year the big 'issue' will probably be something else, and no doubt in November 2025 something else yet again, ad infinitum.
Let's face it, nobody really talks about the Global Financial Crisis, Swine Flu pandemic, etc, any more.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
Boris Johnson's remarks during yesterday's leg of the inquiry seriously didn't add up. He was basically saying (in retrospect) that in January 2020 Covid was already something like a 'ticking time bomb', which seemed totally at odds with what he actually seemed to be saying and doing at the time, which was 'Let's Get Brexit Done!' and also wussed out of turning up at COBRA meetings, etc, as if he (Boris) was in total denial about the whole Covid thing.
I'm so glad that man is no longer in Number 10; he was a sheer embarrassment to this country during his tenure as PM.
Cool dude my backside (still)!
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
I agree with Spectrum. And don't forget it was Boris or Corbyn.
Nobody really knows what Starmer stands for and he has demonstrated he will blow with the political winds. He promised members one thing and then turned on them. Maybe he will do the same to get to PM? I think he will determine what people want to hear, get votes and then do whatever in office. If you are expecting change & something great you are in for a very big disappointment. Is this why people think Blair is coaching him?
Basically all he is guilty of is being a typical politician.
One of the horrible elements of the pandemic was how loved ones couldn't be present as someone died. The politicians are getting it in the neck over this bit what of Whitty? Didn't he advise them to lock the hospitals down? Surely he didn't advise them not to? Did he offer advice on allowing limited numbers of loved ones in?
One of my family died that way. All alone with dementia. She was a lucky one though because one of her family worked at the hospital so was given the access the public were denied. I'm very glad she did but it did make me question how they can do it for their friends.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MyNameIsTerry
I agree with Spectrum. And don't forget it was Boris or Corbyn.
Nobody really knows what Starmer stands for and he has demonstrated he will blow with the political winds. He promised members one thing and then turned on them. Maybe he will do the same to get to PM? I think he will determine what people want to hear, get votes and then do whatever in office. If you are expecting change & something great you are in for a very big disappointment. Is this why people think Blair is coaching him?
Basically all he is guilty of is being a typical politician.
One of the horrible elements of the pandemic was how loved ones couldn't be present as someone died. The politicians are getting it in the neck over this bit what of Whitty? Didn't he advise them to lock the hospitals down? Surely he didn't advise them not to? Did he offer advice on allowing limited numbers of loved ones in?
One of my family died that way. All alone with dementia. She was a lucky one though because one of her family worked at the hospital so was given the access the public were denied. I'm very glad she did but it did make me question how they can do it for their friends.
So it seems you're basically implying that general elections are now a lost cause and no longer worthy of even bothering to participate in.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lencoboy
So it seems you're basically implying that general elections are now a lost cause and no longer worthy of even bothering to participate in.
No, but I just can't see anything coming from either party right now. I suspect you are right though and we might see some dips in turnout.
I don't think Labour are giving people much to vote for. It's more that the Tories have descended into what they do after too many terms in office. They need a shake up. Sadly we have a weak Labour.
We will have to wait to see the manifesto pledges. Then let independent parties assess if they are correctly costed. Then you pick the worst of two evils. But if I'm honest I think I will look towards not voting at all in this one or for an independent. The trouble is we sometimes only get blue or red on the ticket around here.
Starmer might do ok but I don't expect any more than that. His front bench include some idiots as the government do. Labour have to appease their members and whilst the open racists might be gone it doesn't mean they still haven't got a lot of the elements that gave us Corbyn as leader. That will hamper Starmer just as it has recently.
Starmer needs to tackle some big problems that will span multiple terms but he has many who will derail him due to their activist elements, the things that have caused Labour to lose their traditional bases. The Tories have such problems due to the harder members like Mogg. But I think Starmer has a problem because he tries to appeal to whichever group his attention on e.g. look how he pissed the feminists off to appeal to the t element of LGBT+? There are a lot more women, and mainstream voters, who have concerns about women's rights being eroded than pro trans to the point of infringement of those rights (thinking the more radical elements of trans).
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MyNameIsTerry
No, but I just can't see anything coming from either party right now. I suspect you are right though and we might see some dips in turnout.
I don't think Labour are giving people much to vote for. It's more that the Tories have descended into what they do after too many terms in office. They need a shake up. Sadly we have a weak Labour.
We will have to wait to see the manifesto pledges. Then let independent parties assess if they are correctly costed. Then you pick the worst of two evils. But if I'm honest I think I will look towards not voting at all in this one or for an independent. The trouble is we sometimes only get blue or red on the ticket around here.
Starmer might do ok but I don't expect any more than that. His front bench include some idiots as the government do. Labour have to appease their members and whilst the open racists might be gone it doesn't mean they still haven't got a lot of the elements that gave us Corbyn as leader. That will hamper Starmer just as it has recently.
Starmer needs to tackle some big problems that will span multiple terms but he has many who will derail him due to their activist elements, the things that have caused Labour to lose their traditional bases. The Tories have such problems due to the harder members like Mogg. But I think Starmer has a problem because he tries to appeal to whichever group his attention on e.g. look how he pissed the feminists off to appeal to the t element of LGBT+? There are a lot more women, and mainstream voters, who have concerns about women's rights being eroded than pro trans to the point of infringement of those rights (thinking the more radical elements of trans).
So to sum up, Labour are basically between a rock and a hard place ATM and will get lambasted by both the media and certain elements of society no matter what? There are also those who shun Starmer for the most trivial of reasons (e.g, 'he's ugly', 'no charisma', etc). On the other hand I do think he made a bit of a faux pas last week as he was reported to now be 'down with the Thatcherites'.
And of course we will get those who will say 'better the devil you know' in reference to the Tories, even if they still generally despise them.
It does seem there's a lot of whataboutery and strawmen/one-upmanship going on with a lot of this right now. And I don't mean from you Terry BTW.
Of course, only time will tell as to how things eventually play out in next year's election, but despite Labour's more favourable opinion poll ratings more recently, (at worst), I'm still not holding my breath.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lencoboy
So to sum up, Labour are basically between a rock and a hard place ATM and will get lambasted by both the media and certain elements of society no matter what? There are also those who shun Starmer for the most trivial of reasons (e.g, 'he's ugly', 'no charisma', etc). On the other hand I do think he made a bit of a faux pas last week as he was reported to now be 'down with the Thatcherites'.
And of course we will get those who will say 'better the devil you know' in reference to the Tories, even if they still generally despise them.
It does seem there's a lot of whataboutery and strawmen/one-upmanship going on with a lot of this right now. And I don't mean from you Terry BTW.
Of course, only time will tell as to how things eventually play out in next year's election, but despite Labour's more favourable opinion poll ratings more recently, (at worst), I'm still not holding my breath.
That's ok, I know you mean what you see in the media.
The polls are very favourable but right now we don't know what Labour will do since the opposition get the luxury of opposing without having a plan either. When the election comes they will have to at least outline their plans and that's where they could see their ratings plummet, and the Tories can win back ground, if their manifesto isn't inline with what people want.
Labour aren't stuck anywhere other than that of their own making. They will always be attacked by those that oppose them. The Tories get that too. Diehard elements will never change. But that's not an excuse for having no policy worth voting for. If they don't reveal their plans, and ones that stand up to scrutiny unlike some of their previous failed costings, some of us are going to be faced with the age old holding your nose issue or just looking elsewhere e.g. a decent independent not afraid to say what they want.
I don't envy him dealing with those further to the left in his party. He has tried but in recent times seems to be slowing down which some might question whether his previous actions were just about brand damage.
I liked how he slammed the lid on those in his party that wanted to keep dragging Brexit out but I also remember how he changed his stance twice on that before. If he attempts to pull towards the Single Market, Customs Union or Associate Status then God knows how red wall voters will respond. Given our links to the EU are still messy it will be interesting to see his proposals.
How will he solve immigration and the holes we have in our labour caused by our reliance on cheap workers and chasing degrees over filling those gaps? How will he reduce the queues? Stop the people smugglers? Address the issues with France? He suggested building more housing but that achieves nothing in the short term and should be for those here that can't access housing. That is just treating a symptom.
I would ignore those criticising trivial things like looks. It happens across the board to public figures.
Like you I don't take anything from the Thatcherite stuff. The media often make desperate links anyway when there is always some common ground especially when you are a centrist as spectrum pointed out. I remember taking one of those "where do you sit on the political spectrum" tests once and came out centre right because my answers spanned both sides.
Both main parties just seem woeful in talent and standards right now.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
Back to the original thread topic; It does seem that the Covid Inquiry has now lost a lot of its momentum, and a lot of the MPs being interviewed just seem to be deflecting and also in blatant denial.
I do also think that the media have been pandering to the lowest common denominators with a lot of this and have also turned much of it into a tedious drama-fest.
The same also goes for the stuff happening in the Middle East right now where certain outlets seem to be riling up the serial anti-Semites in this country alone.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
Well this week it's Sunak's turn to get it in the neck.
But TBH I reckon most of the country are now beyond even caring and (for better or worse) simply want to move on with their lives.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
Not the bereaved families though. They want to know precisely what truly went on behind the official scenes. Quite understandably.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pulisa
Not the bereaved families though. They want to know precisely what truly went on behind the official scenes. Quite understandably.
Of course.
But unfortunately Johnson and Co seemed far more concerned with 'getting Brexit done' and pandering to the serial naysayers and denyers at the time than to care about people's lives being at risk.
In a nutshell, caught napping.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pain
In some respects I'm hardly surprised, especially as the spread of other pre-existing bugs/viruses were temporarily halted during the Covid restrictions of 2020-21, but now seemingly spreading like wildfire.
Kind of ironic really.
Re: The Covid Inquiry (UK)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pain
Kind of unkind may be closer to the truth, in some respects. The many short and long-term negative impacts of lockdown should be discussed fully, because, as the folks in officialdom are so keen on saying (when it suits them), there are undoubtedly some very serious lessons to be learnt.
Before we embark on the same course of action in a future similar situation (and there are still, almost unbelievably, folks out there who think we should all be locked down and wearing masks right now!), maybe we should study the Swedish model (er, no, not that one!) which avoided many of the worst of the lockdown privations by allowing common sense to prevail instead of using the full-on authoritarian banning of almost all public daily life?
All in all, I think it's still very much a case of 'damned if do, damned if don't'.
Last night, me and my dad attended a Christmas bash (in a village hall) for the first time since 2019 and my immediate thought was how fab it is to be free and not constantly having to walk on eggshells anymore. Everyone else there was having a fab time seemingly without a care in the world, even though they were generally respectable folk at said event.
On the other hand, I still couldn't help feeling a little sense of guilt as for much of the past 4 years we've become accustomed to being mindful of all things Covid and having to have our wits about us, and probably even this time last year me and my dad probably would still have felt a bit jittery at the thought of attending said event (or any other 'gathering'), but again, for the first time since the end of 2019 we've felt far more relaxed.
Of course, the pro-lockdowners still have the prerogative to keep shutting themselves away if they so insist, but I personally want to move on now as best I can, but if we ever have to have any more 'restrictions' in the future for health-related 'emergencies' (heaven forbid), then so be it; we'll deal with it as and where necessary.
