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Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
I was reading earlier today about the 1939 film 'Gone With The Wind' being deleted (from Netflix I think?) due to its racially sensitive content, especially during the current climate.
I am kind of on the fence over this, as one half of me agrees with its deletion, but the other half of me wonders as to whether it may be a slight over-reaction, given it's a 'product of it's time' and should be viewed and interpreted within the context of it's era.
I also get a bit miffed when people get indignant over, say, the 1987 festive hit 'Fairytale Of New York' almost every Christmas because it contains a 'slur' that is also the name of a well-known and much-loved English meat dish from Mr. Brains, which ironically continues to be sold in supermarkets all over the country on a daily basis seemingly without anyone even giving it a second thought, yet most people don't even seem to bat an eyelid over a lot of stuff in the charts and on post-watershed TV over the past 20 years or so that is constantly littered with F and C-bombs and, depicting/referencing violence and aggression (e.g, Eminem, and a lot of the more recent drill-rap stuff), and seemingly no calls to ban them.
Yet people still get their knickers in a twist over the content of a lot of material produced before the 90s, most of which IMO, is pretty tame compared to a lot of stuff that has come since then. I really don't get it.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
I have a tough time with this one, too. I don't really know what the right answer is. Although I see a benefit to eliminated confederate flags and statutes, I think movies and other cultural references fall into a different category. I feel like it's actually really important to remember our past and how we treated people so that we understand what needs to change. I watched the Disney Peter Pan with my daughter a few months ago and when they all started singing, "what makes the red man red," I was *horrified*. But, part of that horror was one more reminder of what we need to stop being like that. I'm white, though, so I'm not sure if others feel the same. Content like that is offensive but not directly to me, which I'm sure paints my reaction to it.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
Its like Looney Tunes taking away Elmer Fudd's shotgun. Why? It always backfired on him anyway :shrug: I understand the background reasons but c'mon, its a classic cartoon! How can you hunt 'wabbits' with a sickle? :huh:
Positive thoughts
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
As a whole, we've become more socially conscious as the years pass which is good as people are people despite our difference. Some countries have become far more multicultural which has helped the process. The same with sexism.
Films and movies are a record of our past, a reflection of the time, so that's why we can react so strongly to them because our attitudes have changed.
Yep the old cartoon are still as funny as ever, Road Runner is my fav but I don't see it as man trying to destroy the chaparral bird as it's based in fantasy, Roadrunner always wins the day anyway :D Wacky Races is another fav of mine with Dick Dastardly and Muttley :)
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Originally Posted by
WiseMonkey
Wacky Races is another fav of mine with Dick Dastardly and Muttley :)
I have a T-shirt for Dick Dastardly Motor Mechanics - "fairly reliable" !! :roflmao:
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
Now they're talking about retheming Splash Mountain at Disneyland and Walt Disney World because of its connection with Song of the South. But, seriously, I get the feeling that pretending Uncle Remus never existed would be so much worse.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
Now it's statues and monuments.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
I actually think it's probably appropriate to take down Confederate statutes and monuments, and I say that as someone with a huge number of Confederate ancestors. But, they lost a war against the United States that almost tore the nation apart, so I think it makes plenty of sense to not venerate them. I totally recognize that the Civil War was about a lot more than just slavery and that states rights are really important, but I think it's kind of silly to maintain this veneration for Confederate generals and the Confederate flag.
My dad and I have done a ton of work on our genealogy. My ancestors came to North America from England in the 1600s and set up shop both in what became Virginia and also in the Caribbean. They have a long and sordid past as not just slave owners. They were deeply entrenched in the slave trade across the continent. Many of them were also integral parts of formation of the United States as representatives at the Continental Congress, Generals in the American Revolution, and high ranking government officials in the Washington, Jefferson, and Adams administrations. I have a lot of pride in my family's past as builders of a new way of life, but also have had to grapple with the less than glorious (and in some cases downright heinous) parts of their lives.
I think this is really America's story - finding a way to balance pride in our history while still being able to recognize our wrong doing for what it was. This means, I think, holding on to things you value in your past while not building literal monuments to the darker pieces of your story. I think Americans have this insecurity about our past. We are sold such a mystical story about our founding that when we grow up and learn more details about it it feels really uncomfortable. Instead of admitting we're not perfect, we double down on the myth.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
This has nothing to do with racial equality or justice of any kind. Blacks are being used as proxy warriors to spread anarchy so that order could be created out of chaos. Now, they're planning a Charlottesville type of false flag in Britain which will lead to racial violence and further tension. Both sides are being manipulated and controlled, BLM is funded by George Soros. This won't end well for black people, their culture has already been subverted through Gangsta rap which glorifies drugs, violence and crime. Rioting and destroying a few statues won't improve their socioeconomic situation in the long term.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ErinKC
I actually think it's probably appropriate to take down Confederate statutes and monuments, and I say that as someone with a huge number of Confederate ancestors. But, they lost a war against the United States that almost tore the nation apart, so I think it makes plenty of sense to not venerate them. I totally recognize that the Civil War was about a lot more than just slavery and that states rights are really important, but I think it's kind of silly to maintain this veneration for Confederate generals and the Confederate flag.
My dad and I have done a ton of work on our genealogy. My ancestors came to North America from England in the 1600s and set up shop both in what became Virginia and also in the Caribbean. They have a long and sordid past as not just slave owners. They were deeply entrenched in the slave trade across the continent. Many of them were also integral parts of formation of the United States as representatives at the Continental Congress, Generals in the American Revolution, and high ranking government officials in the Washington, Jefferson, and Adams administrations. I have a lot of pride in my family's past as builders of a new way of life, but also have had to grapple with the less than glorious (and in some cases downright heinous) parts of their lives.
I think this is really America's story - finding a way to balance pride in our history while still being able to recognize our wrong doing for what it was. This means, I think, holding on to things you value in your past while not building literal monuments to the darker pieces of your story. I think Americans have this insecurity about our past. We are sold such a mystical story about our founding that when we grow up and learn more details about it it feels really uncomfortable. Instead of admitting we're not perfect, we double down on the myth.
I agree. I think those in the slave trade should be removed however I don't think it should be expanded out into colonialism and empire because they were all like that! The more you go back in history the more xenophobic and racist we all were. The world was built on conquest and all skin colours were enslaved by conquering nations and their resources pilfered. That's just how it was.
Black slavery is recent in our history and we are at a point in our own history where people are able to voice their opinions. In future centuries this won't be the same and maybe those generations won't think much of it if we have moved on?
But if purifying is the answer they had better start pulling down every portrait and statue going because I think they will struggle not to find bigoted attitudes in history. Go back even further and our father's were raping & pillaging swinging axes into each other's faces on battlefields.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Originally Posted by
MyNameIsTerry
But if purifying is the answer they had better start pulling down every portrait and statue going because I think they will struggle not to find bigoted attitudes in history. Go back even further and our father's were raping & pillaging swinging axes into each other's faces on battlefields.
Yes, I agree. I think that's part of the accepting our history and learning from it.
The other day someone was reading part of Langston Hugh's poem Let American Be America Again and this line is so striking:
O, let America be America again—
The land that never has been yet—
And yet must be—the land where every man is free.
I think it really sums us up - We have this idea of what America means, but we've never really achieved it. If we realize that we have hope of someday getting there. Instead, when terrible things happen - like rounding up immigrants or police brutality we all like to say, "that's unAmerican!" ... but it's really not, it's our entire history!
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
All,
I understand the sentiment of what you are all saying. You can’t delete history no matter how uncomfortable and we must never forget it nor fail to learn from the lessons it taught us. In fact, we should use these lessons to direct us to do better in the future.
The point of my message is to make you all think before you post. We are a totally inclusive site and there is no room for discrimination against any with protected characteristics. Indeed, we are all anxiety sufferers and know better than most what it’s like to feel invalid and isolated.
Hey, but what do I know? Only that we all deserve to be treated with fairness and dignity.
Pip x
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Originally Posted by
Hollow
This has nothing to do with racial equality or justice of any kind. Blacks are being used as proxy warriors to spread anarchy so that order could be created out of chaos. Now, they're planning a Charlottesville type of false flag in Britain which will lead to racial violence and further tension. Both sides are being manipulated and controlled, BLM is funded by George Soros. This won't end well for black people, their culture has already been subverted through Gangsta rap which glorifies drugs, violence and crime. Rioting and destroying a few statues won't improve their socioeconomic situation in the long term.
With regards to gangsta rap music, and it's obnoxious attributes, which also involves White persons (e.g, Eminem), hardly anyone seems to bat an eyelid, but people get all uptight over stuff like Fairytale Of New York and even classic 70s comedy dramas like On The Buses and Fawlty Towers.
And you're probably correct that certain factions of our population are using the BLM protests as some excuse to let rip, especially
those who are hell-bent on anarchy just for the sake of it and this is the latest 'trigger'.
Twas ever thus I suppose.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
This is all the inevitable, logical outcome of 70 years of liberalism and progressivism in the West. It was always going to come to this. Whether you welcome this new phase or fear it, well...to each his own.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Originally Posted by
Panicattacka
This is all the inevitable, logical outcome of 70 years of liberalism and progressivism in the West. It was always going to come to this. Whether you welcome this new phase or fear it, well...to each his own.
Perhaps we're kind of at fault for being so blase about a lot of issues for all these years, and inadvertently developing the blame game culture, when and where a lot of us ourselves should have instead been putting our own houses in order, rather than shrugging it off with the typical 'it's someone else's fault/problem'.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Originally Posted by
Lencoboy
With regards to gangsta rap music, and it's obnoxious attributes, which also involves White persons (e.g, Eminem), hardly anyone seems to bat an eyelid, but people get all uptight over stuff like Fairytale Of New York and even classic 70s comedy dramas like On The Buses and Fawlty Towers.
And you're probably correct that certain factions of our population are using the BLM protests as some excuse to let rip, especially
those who are hell-bent on anarchy just for the sake of it and this is the latest 'trigger'.
Twas ever thus I suppose.
I think Hollow means they are being used to give an excuse for stricter control of people. Agent provocateur style.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Originally Posted by
Hollow
Hollow, we aren't mind readers so can you explain your point otherwise all I see here is an inflammatory post aimed at stoking things up?
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MyNameIsTerry
Hollow, we aren't mind readers so can you explain your point otherwise all I see here is an inflammatory post aimed at stoking things up?
Careful Terry, you can't suggest that someone here dwells under bridges or you'll get your post removed.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Originally Posted by
Pamplemousse
Careful Terry, you can't suggest that someone here dwells under bridges or you'll get your post removed.
I don't think Terry was suggesting Hol is a troll.
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Originally Posted by
MyNameIsTerry
Hollow, we aren't mind readers so can you explain your point otherwise all I see here is an inflammatory post aimed at stoking things up?
I think it would be more apt to replace "UK" with "British Empire" in this case, for it was responsible for exporting slavery and misery to the 4 corners of the earth, under control of "The Crown". It was the very essence of "racism". Yet I don't see protesters outside palaces and toppling statues of Queen Victoria, under whose reign the savage East India Company operated.
There is no value in violent protests, looting or vandalism. None of this will bring those who suffered and died under police or colonial injustice back. All it does is further reinforce the division and hate.
All lives matter - equally.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Originally Posted by
KK77
There is no value in violent protests, looting or vandalism. None of this will bring those who suffered and died under police or colonial injustice back. All it does is further reinforce the division and hate.
All lives matter - equally.
Agree wholeheartedly. And yet for some sections, saying "all lives matter" is racist - explain that...? Do you remember how Jeremy Corbyn drew flak when he refused to condemn any particular terrorist organisation by replying "I condemn all terrorism" or words to that effect?
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
Saying all lives matter is deflecting from the issue.
Yes of course all lives do technically matter its just in society it seems black lives matter a lot less (blame racism for that).
Saying all lives matter makes it seem like we are all equal in life and although it should be we are simply not.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Originally Posted by
Delilah001
Saying all lives matter is deflecting from the issue.
Yes of course all lives do technically matter its just in society it seems black lives matter a lot less (blame racism for that).
Saying all lives matter makes it seem like we are all equal in life and although it should be we are simply not.
This the loftiest load of bull I've ever heard. The only place that black lives matter a lot less is in your head. You and your ilk have thrown the racism charge around so often you've rendered it meaningless. I think it's hilarious watching the left twist themselves into pretzels trying to prove they're not racist. Next thing you'll be talking about is reparations. Where people who never owned slaves pay money to people who were never slaves.
N.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delilah001
Saying all lives matter is deflecting from the issue.
Yes of course all lives do technically matter its just in society it seems black lives matter a lot less (blame racism for that).
Saying all lives matter makes it seem like we are all equal in life and although it should be we are simply not.
No, N. What she's saying it exactly the truth. All lives should matter, and under the industrialized countries with democracies they are supposed to...except that they haven't. White privilege does exist, racism still exists, whether individual acts of racism or institutionally supported ones, and it's gotten to the point in some sectors of society that it's become normalized. That's why the movement is "black lives matter." It's not saying that other races don't matter, it's saying "Hey, black people are still marginalized, pay attention, we matter too!" If the problem against blacks and African Americans wasn't so bad, the message wouldn't have to be that specific.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Originally Posted by
Pamplemousse
Agree wholeheartedly. And yet for some sections, saying "all lives matter" is racist - explain that...? Do you remember how Jeremy Corbyn drew flak when he refused to condemn any particular terrorist organisation by replying "I condemn all terrorism" or words to that effect?
In Mr Corbyn's case it would be his unwillingness to point to certain groups he doesn't want to upset. Why they chose him to lead this new left Labour I have no idea, other than because he was weak so could be manipulated, because this was always going to be one of his undoings.
He knew they were baiting him but his unwillingness to condemn without hiding it behind a wider group showed potential sympathies. I just think he didn't want to upset people and he's likely a very good MP to his constituents which makes him the opposite of front bench material.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Originally Posted by
Pamplemousse
Careful Terry, you can't suggest that someone here dwells under bridges or you'll get your post removed.
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Originally Posted by
KK77
I don't think Terry was suggesting Hol is a troll.
I think it would be more apt to replace "UK" with "British Empire" in this case, for it was responsible for exporting slavery and misery to the 4 corners of the earth, under control of "The Crown". It was the very essence of "racism". Yet I don't see protesters outside palaces and toppling statues of Queen Victoria, under whose reign the savage East India Company operated.
There is no value in violent protests, looting or vandalism. None of this will bring those who suffered and died under police or colonial injustice back. All it does is further reinforce the division and hate.
All lives matter - equally.
Just to confirm, KK is correct. I was giving Hollow a chance to add some comment about the picture. It can be regarded as baiting. I know from experience he posts pics and headlines without his own opinion.
I fully agree with the forum rules about troll calling. However I would point out that rule came from repetitive anxiety posters being called fake and not members retweeting political points. I wish Hollow would think about this being an anxiety site, he used to engage on anxiety boards.
I agree on the change to British Empire but then how can we say it was us that created racism through our colonialism when empires predate us and they did much the same? We certainly did our share of bad things to other peoples but it didn't start at that point in history just as slavery didn't. Are they to be defined in a different way to our racism?
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
Thank you, Delilah, beautifully put.
Of course all lives matter, but black lives are the ones that need help right now, and as responsible, compassionate human beings we need to do what we can.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Originally Posted by
MyNameIsTerry
In Mr Corbyn's case it would be his unwillingness to point to certain groups he doesn't want to upset. Why they chose him to lead this new left Labour I have no idea, other than because he was weak so could be manipulated, because this was always going to be one of his undoings.
Entryism - most notably the "Three Quid Trots". I think a lot of people even on the moderate left were so pissed off at Blair's behaviour (the God-bothering, his cosying up to Bush Jr.) that they wanted to undo the attempt to turn the Labour Party into something resembling the German Christian Democrats. Of the four candidates on offer, Liz Kendall was an unknown Blairite at the time and so she stood no chance: Yvette Cooper (probably the best of them) would in the minds of the Tory Press and its supporters forever be "Mrs. Balls"; Andy Burnham would forever be tainted by the Mid-Staffs hospitals affair... and then there was Corbyn. Seen as a 'true' socialist who in fact never achieved anything in his time in Parliament (name a single bill he brought forward) and was in fact born into a very privileged white background and spent more time rebelling against party policy than supporting it, he was supported fervently by refugees from the SWP and just about every other bunch of extreme left-wingers, proto-anarchists and sundry other fringe elements who hoped that somehow they could seize power rather than convince the electorate to choose them democratically. Of course, it's difficult to get your message across when the Fourth Estate is quite right-wing in its views, mostly owned by non-dom tax exiles for whom his views would be anathema. Yet I saw no attempt to reintroduce Clause Four or anything like that, just an attempt to try and "level the playing field" (to use the modern vernacular) to reduce the massive disparity between rich and poor in this country. In that I see no wrong.
However Corbyn's personality was never going to win votes. Some say he's principled: I just see arrogance and a tendency to be oh so achingly worthy. By contrast, Starmer seems very dull but I think we've had enough of 'character' leaders now, don't you? In times of trouble you want a bank manager type to lead a country, not someone with a false 'buffoon' personality.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0NFQUW08Z8
Should this movie be banned too? A very funny clip from the comedy film Bustin' Loose with the hilarious Richard Pryor. Back before everyone was so sensitive. Enjoy...if you can.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Originally Posted by
AntsyVee
No, N. What she's saying it exactly the truth. All lives should matter, and under the industrialized countries with democracies they are supposed to...except that they haven't. White privilege does exist, racism still exists, whether individual acts of racism or institutionally supported ones, and it's gotten to the point in some sectors of society that it's become normalized. That's why the movement is "black lives matter." It's not saying that other races don't matter, it's saying "Hey, black people are still marginalized, pay attention, we matter too!" If the problem against blacks and African Americans wasn't so bad, the message wouldn't have to be that specific.
Hi AntsyVee
"Racism still exists" of course it does. You're not ever going to end it and neither am I. It exists on an individual level far more than it does as you imagine on an institutional level. That has pretty much ended in this country. And racism is not exclusive to the white race. It runs across every race and nationality and to say it does not is being disingenuous. Let's just take both of our places of employment. Is there institutional racism where you work? Because there isn't where I work.
Once again the Democrats are coming around to exploit the black community during election time. But in recent years the black community has taken a much closer look at what the Democrats have given them over the last 50 years. That is why the left is desperate to get illegal aliens the vote. They need a new group to exploit. Slavery existed in this world 2,000 years ago and it exists in this world today. But this country, at great cost I might add, a million-and-a-half casualties, ended slavery over a hundred and fifty years ago. Tell me who is more racist, the person that says a particular race needs all kinds of handouts and special programs to succeed or the person that says hey that guy or girl is at least as intelligent, strong and as capable as I am? Democrats have been condescendingly patronizing the black community for over 50 years. I'd be happy to get into it over the history of the democrat party and racism. Their track record isn't that good.
N.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
Oh dear, this thread straying off into politics now!
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Originally Posted by
Noivous
This the loftiest load of bull I've ever heard. The only place that black lives matter a lot less is in your head. You and your ilk have thrown the racism charge around so often you've rendered it meaningless. I think it's hilarious watching the left twist themselves into pretzels trying to prove they're not racist. Next thing you'll be talking about is reparations. Where people who never owned slaves pay money to people who were never slaves.
N.
Are you being deliberately provocative, or are you just a moron?
Your 'reparations' example has got nothing to do with what Delilah is talking about, and is just an extreme example of classic red herring diversion tactics.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
LOL! Moron... that's a good one!
But be careful you might be getting close to hate speech...I'm running off to one of my safe spaces right now I'll get back to you after I hold a puppy for a while.
But actually the reparations example was just that... an example of the lunacy on the far left...of which you are a member...as is BLM.
N.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
Knock it off, please, Noivous? You're making me uncomfortable, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Delilah001
Saying all lives matter is deflecting from the issue.
Yes of course all lives do technically matter its just in society it seems black lives matter a lot less (blame racism for that).
Saying all lives matter makes it seem like we are all equal in life and although it should be we are simply not.
Why don’t black lives matter ever seem to engage in protest when scores of young black men and women are murdered every day?
In late May, around about the time these protests started, Chicago in the US had the most violent day in 60 years, with dozens of black men and women murdered.
If black lives matter, that’s fine. For me, that should always be the case, not only when it happens to be a white guy who brings it to an end.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
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Originally Posted by
BlueIris
Knock it off, please, Noivous? You're making me uncomfortable, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Wait a minute BI. Knock it off? I'm making you uncomfortable? Well maybe you're making me and others uncomfortable. You did see that the guy just called me a moron that doesn't make you uncomfortable? You know you shouldn't shut somebody down just because you don't agree with them.
Or do you only get uncomfortable when someone challenges your viewpoint? Is this an open forum or not?
N.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
It wasn't an order, it was a polite request. Neither was it an attempt to shut you down, just a heads-up in case you weren't aware of the fact.
Really not in the mood for conflict, I'm just aware that there are younger, non-white users on here and yes, I do worry about their feelings.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
Okay fair enough. But I don't think I said anything offensive to them.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
Boy it's been a really nice June though. The weather has been terrific.
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Re: Outrage over historical films, TV shows, songs, etc.
Blue Iris I appreciate your compassion and consideration for others believe me.
N.