any one tried either of these anti anxiety medicines?
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any one tried either of these anti anxiety medicines?
hello
yes im on klonopin and i also tried buspar for me anyways the klonopin worked for me the buspar had no results but we are all different.best to ya.............linda[8D]
Hi Frankie,
I took Buspar for a few months. Firstly at a low dose (5m twice a day) which had little or no effect. My Doc upped my dose to 10mg 3 times a day. This did have an effect, but made my head feel a little odd. I stopped taking it a few days later, but in fairness I suppose I didn't really give it a chance to settle down.
Krakers.
Unfortunately, as far as I'm aware, Klonopin is only prescribed in the UK for seizures, its other use, not for panic attacks even though I've read many posts saying how well it works. If it was available it would be definitely something I'd try.
So, assuming the info I've read is true, the only way to get hold of it would be to purchase it via an online pharmacy which means you won't be properly monitored and is also illegal without a prescription which you can't get...
As for Buspar RemedyFind only gives it 2.9/10 for panic & agrophobia compared to 8.2 for Klonopin, 8.3 for Xanax and 5.6 for Celexa/Citalopram.
http://www.remedyfind.com/treatments/63/2148/ is a great site as each treatment is judged and commented on by suffers.
Marc
Hi Marc - was hoping it was available in the UK. I've been on the look out for meds that might help my situation and Klonopin (Clonazepam) looks like it may well help me. My doc won't prescribe diazepam becasue he's worried about additction / abuse. Thought I may be able to talk him round to this one given its shorter half life, lower dose and longer potential for continued efficacy.
Will let you know if it is prescribable at my next visit (likely to be monday now).
Krakers.
Hi
That seems to be the unfortunate thing in the UK, as Diazapines have the potential to be abused by people mixing them with alcohol Doctors are discouraged from prescribing them even if they would benefit deserving patients. Shame that the two most effective drugs for PAD are Xanax which you can only get on private prescription and Klonopin which I believe you can’t get at all. But do let me know what your doc says.
Remember that 1mg of Klonopin is equal to about 10mg of Diazapam so is only a lower dose weight wise, although they may work slightly differently, for PAD 2-3mg of Klonopin seems to be a common dosage with the minimum theraputic dose being 1mg.
If you can't get Klonopin you could try and get Xanax which kills PA's dead in their tracks and can also be used on a as required basis which, assuming as required isn't every day but once a week or less, would mean you wouldn't become dependent on it.
You don’t become addicted to these drugs unless you abuse them, you can become dependent which isn’t the same thing. A dependency is basically where your body gets used to the drug, addiction is when you crave it.
Marc
Addiction and dependency are two sides of the same coin.
Addiction occurs when ones dependency is intense and the drug must be had to restore a sense of psychological balance.
Dependency is a psychological reliance on the effect of the drug.
The body becoming used to a drug is known as tolerance. When the body develops tolerance to a drug, its effect is usually lessened [as with benzodiazepines].
Busparine may work if yous lucky and safe with none side effects
Klonopin will poop out after about 3 weeks
While often more benign than ADs, buspirone (Buspar) can trigger many of the same side-effects. Its main problem is it only works for a relative few and then only for GAD and maybe social anxiety. I've yet to come across anyone with PD, PTSD, or OCD who derived any benefit. But it will often increase the effectiveness of SSRIs and reduce the severity of some of their side-effects too. It also has a proven track record for reinvigorating pooped out SSRIs and SNRIs.Quote:
Originally Posted by lebonvin
While tolerance to BZD sedation usually develops within 2-3 weeks, it is rare for tolerance to the anxiolytic response, which is mediated by different binding sites, to develop that quickly, and some believe it never does. Most with anxiety don't escalate their benzodiazepine over time, but reduce it. Even some of the BZDs severest critics admit anxiolytic tolerance is less of an issue than sometimes claimed, for example:Quote:
Klonopin will poop out after about 3 weeks
"The typical pattern of a drug dependence syndrome, with drug seeking behaviour, rapid tolerance, and escalation of dosage, is rare (according to Marks's calculations, one in every 5 million patient months "at risk")" Benzodiazepines on trial
The bigger issue with BZDs is their negative impact on hippocampal neurogenesis and the onset of depression this may trigger.
Interesting
I pretty much agree with Panic Ian on all his medical knowledge but gotta disagree on this benzo rap coz it don't match my experience (Xanax and Klonopin)
I don't know if it's permitted to copy foreigner talk here but I guess a few folk can read French. It's from revivre.com and the Mikhoul dude is French speaker version of Panic Ian.
He say same as me almost, that benzos poop after about 30 days or the sedative effect no longer gets felt. That's dependence. The anti anxiety effect last another 30 days then yous gotta increase dose for same effect. Another 30 days etc then your addict
Avec les benzos ça prend plus ou moins 30 jours de prise ne continu pour développer une dépendance sévère qui est souvent considéré aussi difficile à quitter que l’héroïne. De plus après 30-60 jours tu développes un effet de tolérance qui fait que le benzo en tant que tel n'a plus d'effet anxiolytique à moins d'augmenter la dose et qui elle même ne sera plus efficace après ~30 jours...
En plus l'effet rebond des benzos lors du sevrage c'est d'augmenter l'anxiété ce qui rend encore plus difficile l'arrêt.
La prise à long terme de benzos peut avoir beaucoup d'effets secondaires au niveau cognitif et moteur.
Les benzos peuvent être utile mais à très court terme dans des circonstances précises, sur le long terme ils ne sont pas indiqués.
En espérant que ça t'aide à mieux comprendre les benzos
No, it's tolerance. Tolerance can occur without dependence and dependence often occurs without tolerance.Quote:
Originally Posted by lebonvin
Which is not what the science says, see, for example, Tvet IF, 2013 which explored the issue in depth. Nor does it accord with what I have observed in some 20 years of participating in anxiety forums such as NMP.Quote:
The anti anxiety effect last another 30 days then yous gotta increase dose for same effect. Another 30 days etc then your addict
Probably the better guide to this is epileptics than those taking BZDs for anxiety as the disorders can muddy the waters. Epileptics share the same benzodiazepine/GABA receptor binding sites density deficits and sensitivity impairments as those with anxiety and are typically prescribed BZDs at higher doses and often for longer, yet they generally have fewer issues, both while taking these meds and in stopping them (although the greater expertise of neurologists may be a factor in the latter).
There are very good reasons for not taking BZDs long term. Tolerance is one of the lesser ones, imo.
Hey Ian
Do you ever taken benzos yourself?
iI don't understand what's different between tolerance and dependence. Maybe the French speakers use them words in reverse. The guy got links to French medical stuff but no point in posting here
I wish you was right but in 20 years of taking benzos on and off and getting addicted Xanax I gotta agree with the Frenchy.
Or am I just different from most? Yes I am but when it come to benzos my experience is same as other guys and what docs and pharmies tell me.
We agree that they makes yous more depressed. We agree that they stop brain growing new cells in camp hippopotamus.
We agree they shouldn't get took long time.
I wish there was some drug what worked permanent to keep everyone anxiety free
Ain't this a bit like the climate change deniers science
They says it's baloney but you can see different with yous own eyes.
Greta got it right even though she ain't old enough to have read all the books
If anti-anxiety effects of benzos kept on working we'd all be fine and dandy
Since us folk here take benzos for anxiety the epileptic rap don't really help
From yous own admission you was never a pharmie or a doc, just a regular guy who reads tonza stuff about medications to help folk like me on this forum. That's great and you help countless folk.
I just think yous got this one wrong
I once saw a physch who told me about an AD "It's workin but you don't noticed it," after about 3 months on the gear. Well sorry my man I said, I'm suffering here so I know it ain't workin even if your medical books say it is.
So I'm still stuck on this benzo shit years later, I thought I'd come off ok till I got them hallucinations as you probably remember coz I asked yous advice and you said switch to a diazepam taper what I still intend to do.
Why not? They have the same benzodiazepine/GABA binding site deficits/sensitivity issues we do. It is the reason both cohorts respond so well to BZDs. The only significant difference is their experience is less likely to be influenced by psychological factors.Quote:
Originally Posted by lebonvin
Hi Ian
Point taken but I still ain't convinced. I wanna read more but that scientific stuff is too hard for me to take in
Just to make sure we never misunderstood - I'm saying that an anti-anxiety dose of a benzo last max 2 months, but your saying it last longer than that?
A question I was gonna ask you anyway so I'll ask here.
If your starting an AD for the first time, how long should you wait before giving up on it if it don't work?
If your switching from a SSRI to a new SSRI or in my case a SNRI to a new SNRI, how long?
If changing class of AD, how long?
Thanks
Yes. Years. Though it depends on the BZD. The short acting ones such as alprazolam (Xanax) tend to poop out much sooner than the longer acting diazepam, clonazepam and chlordiazepoxide.Quote:
Originally Posted by lebonvin
Something to contemplate. BZDs work because our brains have BZD binding sites. These haven't been in our brains since the dawn of humanity just waiting for us to develop the drugs. They are there because there are small amounts of benzodiazepine compounds in most of the things we eat, particularly diazepam and lorazepam and their respective metabolites, originating in plants and flowing up the food chain. My guess is that benzodiazepines are a plant poison to which animal life, Homo sapiens included, have become so adapted to that we can no longer function without them. If you could eat a natural BZD free diet you would die a pretty horrific, seizure racked death. Fortunately, natural BZDs are so ubiquitous that this is impossible.
While the quantities we get from food are small, they are not insignificant. Natural BZD levels can reach pharmaceutical levels in patients with some liver diseases 1. So high in fact that medical intervention may be required 2. If tolerance was as big an issue as you believe then we would be having to constantly increase our dietary intake to maintain the status quo or succumb to terrible bouts of anxiety and convulsions.
Well, you can't really claim an AD doesn't work until you've been on the highest recommended dose for 8-12 weeks as some people, e.g. me, only respond to near, at, or over the maximum, but that's a long wait. More practically if there are no hints of a positive response after 8-12 weeks at a more typical therapeutic dose for that med then the odds aren't good.Quote:
If your starting an AD for the first time, how long should you wait before giving up on it if it don't work?
Assuming it is an overnight, or short cross-taper switch from the typical therapeutic dose, to the equivalent of the new one then 5-8 weeks. If it is stopping drug A before beginning drug B then it's effectively the same as starting from square one. The only time this is essential is when switching to/from a MAOI class AD, but most GPs and many psychiatrists, ime, insist on changing ADs that way, presumably because they don't know any better, through fear of serotonin syndrome, or simply a lack of confidence.Quote:
If your switching from a SSRI to a new SSRI or in my case a SNRI to a new SNRI, how long?
This is trickier because effective dose equivalents can be much less certain so more playing around with doses may be required, however, 5-8 weeks plus the adjustment time.Quote:
If changing class of AD, how long?
References:
[1]
Baraldi M, Avallone R, Corsi L, et al (2000)
Endogenous benzodiazepines.
Therapie Jan-Feb;55(1):143-6 (Abstract)
[2]
Zeneroli ML, Venturini I, Stefanelli S, et al, (1997) Antibacterial activity of rifaximin reduces the levels of benzodiazepine-like compounds in patients with liver cirrhosis. Pharmacol Res , Jun;35(6):557-60 (Abstract)
[Note: no benzodiazepine synthesizing gut flora has ever been isolated despite much searching and they almost certainly don't exist in humans, and rifaximin probably reduces BZD by improving liver function, not killing such flora as the authors propose]
Hi Ian
Thanks for yous long reply and for taking the time.
Charlie
The two main treatments for anxiety disorders are psychotherapy and medications and doctors are mostly prescribed theses drugs. It may take some trial and error to discover which medicines work best for you. But without doctors prescription, its leads to addiction. It has strong side effects and withdrawal symptoms.