Agoraphobia and incapacity benefit/employment support allowance

[TelboyD]

Thanks for the advice everyone. It's really appreciated at this stressful time.

[eight days a week]

I'm getting a lot of PMs about this. Of course I don't mind at all, but life is throwing me some difficult things at the moment so time is too short to help as much as I'd like :(

I posted on the previous page where to go to get a guide (there is a small fee to access it - sorry i don't know how much it is but it will be worth it I really think) that will help you greatly with your claim/appeal. I used to send out copies to genuine people but unfortunately I can no longer afford to do so.

I have no relationship to that site (actually I have never used it) and no reason to gain anything to promote it apart from to help people on here but the guide is BRILLIANT. My copy was given to me by my benefits adviser!!

http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/

The only other thing I can say is that my adviser (who I accessed through my mental health centre, so ask at yours if they have one and if you can see them - explain you need help) said that if you are under 'secondary care' (a mental health service in addition to your GP) then please show the person who gives you your medical any letters you have from them (ask them for copies of anything they send to your GP).

It can make things easier if they see that you are under 'secondary care' (psychiatrist, mental health team etc) as well as your GP.

Good luck everyone and god bless

[eight days a week]

Well, imagine my surprise and shock when I was sent the results of my ESA home medical of so many months ago that I cannot remember*. They have awarded me zero points!!

This despite my GP faxing them that I could not travel to a medical because of my condition (being able to travel to places you aren't familiar with alone is one of the criteria). They judged me able to go anywhere!!

This despite showing the guy who came to examine me the paperwork from my psychiatrist that backs up everything I told him.

This despite him asking me who does the paperwork and deals with day-to-day things that need addressing, and me showing him the piles of paperwork going back five years that I have never felt able to deal with (e.g. we haven't had any kind of home insurance until recently for at least three years because I couldn't feel up to trying to arrange it).

Etc etc etc.

I had thought that he gave me only a cursory examination because I had been failed before (with six points) only to take it to tribunal and overwhelmingly win. But no. It is obvious that (at least in my case) they have sent an examiner who would have failed me no matter what.

I had the criteria that I have posted a link to (and had gone through those points writing many pages of how my conditions directly affect me in relation to them). But he asked me about none of them.

When he was finished I showed him all my notes and asked him to listen to them. He walked out. Just before he did so, I gave him the example of 'how my illness puts me in danger' which is one of the criteria (in my case it is because of chronic insomnia lasting weeks on end which leaves me utterly unable to function, the effects of my medication (which spaces me out), and derealisation (I have been known to just run in front of cars when I have panic attacks because I don't know where I am or really care)). I often have falls or find cuts and bruises I don't know about, or am unable to do things (even cook or bathe) because I am scared of accidents.

He just said 'that doesn't matter, everyone has accidents'

Well, sorry sunshine, but it DOES matter. The criteria to receive this benefit is set in law. I know the law, and I have the criteria. Also, very thankfully, I am in touch with a great benefits adviser through my mental health team, and he knows the law too. Sorry ATOS, but this is another appeal you will have upheld against you, and another black mark against your name.

I spoke to my benefits adviser (who I was able to access through my mental health team luckily) and told him I'd received no points. He just rolled his eyes - he is sick of this, he fights this injustice every day. I told him all about my medical assessment and he wasn't surprised by the 'doctor's actions. I'm going to see him and he's going to help me.

I am sorry for the long post, I just wanted to share my experience. I have been turned down for ESA after a medical once before. I appealed (not knowing that if you want it overturned at that stage you have to provide 'further medical evidence' e.g. copies of letters from your psychiatrist or GP etc - something at least more than just saying 'I disagree'). So, it went to a tribunal. At that point I did (with my benefit adviser's help) have a supporting statement from my psychiatrist, but I have no doubt even without that I would have passed (the tribunal is impartial and HAS to uphold the law, even if ATOS don't even bother trying, and so they properly questioned me).

People!! If you are turned down by the initial medical assessment I would suggest that means nothing whatsoever!! It is very unpleasant and distressing, I know that (I spent the day I received the letter in a state of utter terror and panic, and two days later I am still manic with worry) but please, please, please continue to put the effort in to claim what is rightfully (and legally) yours. If you cannot do that by yourself then please appeal for help through your local mental health centre, careworker, ANYTHING.

Good luck my friends, and I will let you know how I get on...









* There is an outrageous secondary scandal here. The first is obviously that people with mental health issues are being treated so abysmally by the system that is meant to protect and support them. The second (and this is partly why, for me, so many 'ordinary' voters are against the system full-stop) is that my GP said I needed a home medical in February. They gave me one early summer. They have just told me that I have failed and they will stop my money. That is seven months of benefit that they say they believe I am not entitled to, and yet they have been paying me all that time, and will not ask for that money back. Obviously I believe, and fully expect, to have my own personal decision reversed. But imagine the money we are giving to people who genuinely are not entitled to benefits while the incompetent system catches up with them. And so we genuinely ill suffer because of the political pressure to reduce the benefit bill that they cannot keep under control because they are utterly useless. The genuine claimants are often too sick to fight their corner. The fraudsters will be well versed in their 'rights' and know how to play the system. I give up on this country and its government, I really do

[eight days a week]

OK, so I saw my benefits adviser the other day (again, I asked at my local mental health centre for someone to help me and they put me onto him).

I have also heard that there is a retired magistrate at the local Citizen's Advice Bureau who is an absolute expert in things like this, and her passion is helping people like us, so if you have no other route to try PLEASE TRY THAT!

Also again, if you get to the appeal stage (like me) then you will need to submit additional medical evidence (this could be supporting evidence from your GP or psychiatrist or other people treating you) to back up what you say about your illness.

If you can't give further evidence then it will go to a tribunal - I know this is very scary to think about, but please remember that these people are NOT biased like ATOS or the government - and unlike (in my experience) ATOS 'doctors' they must assess you according to the actual LAW (rather than their targets for just failing people).

I have been to a tribunal and they were very kind and understanding and actually assessed me properly!! (Unlike ATOS.)

So, here is how my meeting with my benefits adviser went:

I told him I was given zero points - he was not surprised (so please, please NEVER give up at this stage!)

He said that he is overrun with ATOS denying people with mental health issues enough points (15 I think) to pass the medical, his full-time job is trying to help people like us.

I told him the story of my home medical assessment and I said I felt like complaining - he told me to do so! He said I should complain about everything I have described. He also said I should send the original of my psychiatrist's letter that I actually showed the doctor along with my other paperwork, because quite clearly what was written in that letter was NOT reflected in the points I have been given. So the 'doctor' basically looked at it and yet ignored it.

He said to send the copies of my psychiatrist's recent assessments of me (ignored by the assessment), my GP's letter saying I needed a home medical (ignored by the assessment - should at least have given me 6 points), as well as the notes I had made on how my condition affects me in relation to the legal criteria (notes I made from the website link I have posted here, and which I tried to show the doctor before he walked out) with my appeal letter.

I am confident that doing all that (which I would have done anyway, even without my benefit adviser's help) I would have a very good chance of passing the appeal. So, please try to get all the help you can, but if you can't get someone to help you just send them the originals of anything you have copies of describing your condition by medical professionals and say that they weren't taken into account at your assessment.

But first I would urge you to try to get some help from your psychiatrist/GP/local mental health team/benefits adviser/Citizen's Advice.

If not, still don't worry!!

So, how did I get on? Well, my benefits adviser said that certain categories don't apply to me (e.g. 'learning to do tasks'). I disagree with this, and the notes from that website (that he gave me) suggest he is wrong, or not pushing things as far as he should/might given my condition. At the same time, I understand he doesn't need to. He has known me for years, knows me well and that I genuinely have problems, and also (I suspect) that the more 'obvious' parts of the assessment are where things don't need to be argued in legal detail - they are so obvious it's untrue (thank you ATOS doctor you useless/deceitful muppet ).

He is overrun with people like me (us!) being turned down this benefit at the assessment stage, so he just does what he needs to do - which is focus on the obvious things.

He assessed me himself based on my medical notes and his knowledge of me.

How many points did I score (even with him ruling out two sections that I feel I should legally get points for)? And please bear in mind that you need 15 points, but I was given ZERO by the assessing doctor who came to my home because even though my GP wrote to them saying I couldn't travel to see them due to my condition, they didn't even give me points for that (which seems illegal to me - not just a mistake actually illegal).

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Fight it my friends. We are legally entitled to this benefit, as set down by the laws of our country. You may very well (very sadly, it seems likely) be failed at the assessment stage. DO NOT GIVE UP. THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT.

Once I have passed this appeal I will be taking this fight to my MP and Parliament, hopefully. It is a disgrace in my humble opinion, an absolute outrage. One day the truth about ATOS and the mentally ill will come out, I have no doubt. There will be a scandal. But, for your benefits, please don't wait for that day.

Whatever your medical assessment, and as hard as it is (I know all about that, I have been through it, and still am) do what you can and get what you deserve.

Sorry for the long post.

[kashameets]

So sorry your going through this
Sadly ESA is just like DLA its all about the right words

Key points are.....if they want you to go to a medical get a letter from a doctor saying attending a medical would be detrimental to your health..they can not make you go to a medical after a doctor has said that.

Always send everything recorded delivery....or it will be 'lost'

When you get the ESA form do not make you illnesses fit the form make the form fit your illness.....IE if you can not go out alone on the question about walking distances put you can not walk that distance unattended as you would need to be outside of your home....turn the physical questions in to mental health questions....

Do not write 'if' always write 'when' ....

Read the descriptors and keep these in mind when you fill in the form...

In the form where it asks about being able to go out alone it does not give you a NO/NEVER answer.....write one in.....

Send 'ALL' your medical evidence in with the form, do not wait until they ask you for it....send copies or at least keep copies....let them know you have kept copies.....

Ask your doctor to write a letter saying that it would be detrimental to your mental health/condition if you were not found to have a limited capability for work related activity...

If a doctor is sent out to see you HE/SHE does NOT make the decision on if you pass or not...the decision maker does.....this means THEY will only see what your form and the doctors notes say so make sure YOU send ALL your medical evidence along with your form....

If you send enough medical evidence the decision maker may decide you have given enough evidence so you do not need a medical....

You need to score 15 points to be placed in the work related activity group, in this group you are classed as ill/disabled but can work in time with help....you will need to attend work related interviews....

To be placed in the support group where you are classed as ill/disabled and can not work and where you do not have to attend work related interviews one of the following descriptors must apply to you http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/emp...up-descriptors



http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wca-handbook.pdf

Descriptors
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum.../dg_177366.pdf

---------- Post added at 01:18 ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 ----------

I was in a terrible state when i knew i was going over to ESA and made myself ill with worry as i was convinced that either i would be turned down or i would be placed in the WRAG group and i knew i would not be able to attend the interviews but i filled the form in making it fit me and my illness plus i sent a tun of letters with it even including letters i had from the mental health team saying we are sorry you missed your appointment, when i had missed appointments due to my mental health...

I sent in enough medical evidence that the decision maker decided that i did not need a medical and i was placed in the support group...

I was turned down for DLA the first time i applied as they said once out i was aware of my surroundings.....it did not matter that i could not go out unless someone i trusted was with me....in the eyes of DLA a spaceship picks you up and drops you somewhere
I had explained that if i was suddenly dropped somewhere i would have a panic attack which for me means i would get very hot, feel faint, go deaf, go blind and collapse yet i was still turned down...
The next time i claimed i filled in the form just the same but this time after explaining what happens to me when i have a panic attack i added the words 'i am unaware of my surroundings' and i was awarded it.

Its all in the words

[eight days a week]

Brilliant post kasha and I agree with every word!! People please follow this great advice

The only thing I would say is, as I don't think you have been on this benefit for long (?), when the time finally comes when you have a home medical, please don't be surprised if they fail you (they are failing everyone). You will then need to ask them to reconsider.

I was finally able to send my documents in today asking them to look at my claim again and to reconsider (the first stage against a medical assessment) and telling them I will appeal (to the independent legal tribunal) if they will not.

I sent them:

1) A letter telling them I believe I am entitled to ESA and asking them to reconsider their decision, and also making a formal complaint about the doctor who came to my home to assess me.

2) An appeal form if not (I am 100% confident I will win this if it gets as far as this - this is the next stage after asking them to reconsider).

3) A new medical certificate from my GP saying I am unfit to work from the date they said I was (you need this to get continued payments in the meantime until they are able to review your case - they told me this should be done within 50 days).

4) A copy of the notes I wrote before the doctor arrived for the assessment (based on the criteria and advice in the link to a website I gave earlier in this thread). I complained that I had prepared and shown him the notes when he came (particularly as problems 'dealing with people' is one of the criteria!!) but he dismissed them and refused to look at them, or even listen to me.

5) A copy of my GP's letter saying I needed a home assessment because I cannot travel to a non-supportive environment that I don't know due to my condition (this was totally ignored by the doctor as 'going out' is another criteria you can score points on).

6) Copies of two letters from my psychiatrist that show my condition (I showed the doctor one of them but again he totally ignored it because I scored ZERO points )

I am totally confident I will win this. They are making it as hard as possible for people so if you are not able to do this on your own please PLEASE ask for all the help you can get. Your Citizens' Advice Bureau is a good place to start. If you have access to your local mental health team then ask there, also your GP to support you, but the CAB might be able to help you to start to do that if you can't yourself.

Please do not worry if you do not have so much stuff as me to send Even a letter complaining that your medical assessment wasn't carried out properly and explaining why (and most importantly HOW) your condition affects you might get your claim agreed before the tribunal stage. I cannot recommend the link I gave to that benefits guide highly enough. But then I don't know how much it costs to access it, could anyone comment on that? All I can say is that I didn't have a clue what to say to the doctor befo0re he visited my home for the assessment, I was just ready to follow his questions. But after reading that document, in a few hours I was able to make enough notes from their explanations that would and should have 'passed' me 100% - if the doctor had actually been willing to listen.

And that I feel is one of the strongest arguments I have about winning this before the actual appeal (tribunal) stage. That I had all the evidence and explanations sitting right there by my chair in pages and pages of notes, but the doctor ignored it all and refused to even hear about it.

Best wishes to all, carry on fighting this madness please (and they reckon we're the mad ones!! )

[eight days a week]

The latest news on my case is that I got a letter saying:

1) I have been found fit to work
2) I have been found to have limited capability to work

Both in the same letter!!

Conveniently confusing for someone with mental health issues I would suggest

I felt able to phone up yesterday (mostly I cannot use the phone at all except for texts) to question what on earth they were saying in this letter.

They have introduced a new 'security system' on their phone access to your records at the DWP. They have all my details (which have not changed for seven years) and yet after twenty minutes on hold I failed some part of the security clearance.

The gentleman was polite and very apologetic. He said I needed to phone back and fail security three times in total for them to call me back to reset the security details they have for me (not my fault as they have had the same, correct, details for so many years).

So, I had to do that, and now wait back for Monday morning when they are supposed to call me to sort out my security and also to discuss my appeal.

We will see - I am not hopeful. They are clearly incompetent.

Fight this people, please, or get someone to help you. If I felt unable to phone them back a second time I would have written explaining the problem. In my past experience this has always worked For example, sometimes they sent me letters in the past saying 'you failed to attend your medical on (date) so we will stop your benefit' (when they hadn't actually sent me a letter at all - at least not one I had received!!). So, I wrote, and they were fine about it.

[eight days a week]

As predicted, they did not phone me this morning as I was told they would.

I got my P45 through the post from them this morning which means they have not received my letter asking them to reconsider, or else to send me to appeal. I had suspected this, as I sent the letter with all my supporting evidence recorded delivery. And the tracking number still shows as 'not delivered' on the Royal Mail website.

I suspect they get a lot of recorded items and don't bother to sign for them, but they are still delivered. Just the same as they SAY they sent you letters about your benefit that you need to reply to, but never actually appear. Funny though that I always get the ones that tell me my benefit has stopped

I guess it's going to need another letter which I will try to send in the next few days if I am able to...seeing as they have blocked me off from phoning them to speak about it due to my security details (which I have never changed) being 'wrong'.

If I feel well enough at any point I am resolved to see my MP now.

It is a national disgrace.

[eight days a week]

So, I sent them my appeal letter and stuff a month ago. A month later they send me all the paperwork kicking me off the benefit.

So as I posted I phoned them on Friday. Now suddenly this morning I have received two letters. One of them is dated Thursday and says my appeal is going ahead. The second is dated Friday and tells me I have been paid the money from when they said I was fit to work until now (so, I can buy food again, hurrah!).

It still seems a great coincidence to me that the only 'positive' paperwork I've received is a few days after I phoned them, even if one letter is dated the day before

In the meantime I am locked out of contacting them on the phone to discuss my appeal because of their new security system - not very helpful for me, but seems rather convenient for them

I guess the only thing I can advise from my experience is to send anything important to them by recorded delivery, and that you may have to chase them up a bit, unfortunately. But if you do the system seems to work, eventually. Oh and you might get confusing letters that make no sense

Luckily I don't feel I need to speak to them right now, but guess I'll have to write to them at some point to ask them to reset my security.

[BobbyDog]

So, I sent them my appeal letter and stuff a month ago. A month later they send me all the paperwork kicking me off the benefit.

So as I posted I phoned them on Friday. Now suddenly this morning I have received two letters. One of them is dated Thursday and says my appeal is going ahead. The second is dated Friday and tells me I have been paid the money from when they said I was fit to work until now (so, I can buy food again, hurrah!).

It still seems a great coincidence to me that the only 'positive' paperwork I've received is a few days after I phoned them, even if one letter is dated the day before

In the meantime I am locked out of contacting them on the phone to discuss my appeal because of their new security system - not very helpful for me, but seems rather convenient for them

I guess the only thing I can advise from my experience is to send anything important to them by recorded delivery, and that you may have to chase them up a bit, unfortunately. But if you do the system seems to work, eventually. Oh and you might get confusing letters that make no sense

Luckily I don't feel I need to speak to them right now, but guess I'll have to write to them at some point to ask them to reset my security.

Excellent news.