Dangers of SSRIs

[steveo]

I'm glad that your son was declined SSRI's because of his age.

I was happily put on the medication at 17. My brain has now developed to require the SSRI mechanism.

[Serenitie]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-pet...b_1077185.html

This article has shocked me the most.

This could very well explain why I've been on SSRI's since I was 17 for 11 years, and then came off after feeling fine for YEARS, and then now at a point where I can't get through the day. I have NEVER been this bad in my entire life, EVER.

I honestly believe that the 11 years of taking SSRI's whilst my brain was still developing, has damaged my brain somehow or the process of serotonin has compensated as it says in the article.

More and more and more is coming out of the woodwork about the dangers of SSRI's and they are a fairly newISH drug so we don't really know the long term side effects. I also don't know anyone who has constantly been on an SSRI for 11 years.

I think that you raise some very valid points Steven. I can totally relate the the anger that you are feeling after your experiences. Your anger is also very valid. I am concerned about it's impact on your current mood, so as a friend, I would advise you to use the information you are raising constructively in your meeting tomorrow to discuss the best treatment options for you. Please call me if you need to talk / vent

However, as a patient, you do have rights including the right to challenge proposed treatment options for you.

A GP has less than 1 weeks specialist mental health training out of the 7 years they train. The practice of automatically prescribing diazepam alongside SSRI start up is a relatively new and poor practice which was very much frowned upon when I started practising as a mental health social worker in the late 90's when a high proportion of my work was supporting a lot of people addicted to long term benzodiazepine use to withdraw from long term addiction in the absence of any rehab programmes or resources.

This practice is very much resource and time led and not at all in the best interest of the patient. In my experience, personal and professional, diazepam is still over prescribed for long term use without adequate supervision causing addiction to prescription medication with no recourse to rehabilitation.

I have known benzodiazepines to be prescribed to known recreational drug users and alcoholics and those with a known history of addiction and those with a history of suicidal ideation and attempts. I consider this bad practice and negligent at best and possible grounds for malpractice.

I refused to use mine as a result of my awareness of the hazards of this drug and potential for addiction. I explained this to my GP and advised her that as a smoker I have an addictive personality and was in a vulnerable position at that time. She prescribed them anyway.

I also take issue with the fact that any crisis, is more often than not, responded to by a GP upping the dose of medication or suggesting the start up of SSRI's. When we suffer a bereavement or crisis it is a perfectly natural response to feel awful. Why medicate these feelings? A little support and space to grieve is often all that is needed and essential to develop coping strategies for future use. A referral to counselling would be much more beneficial, but the lack of counselling resources often means that medication is offered as a 'quick fix'.

Like with any treatment, mental health and GP services are very much a postcode lottery and vary hugely. There are some amazing practitioners and some truly poor practitioners. The treatment received should not vary so greatly or be based on something as arbitrary as a postcode. Unfortunately this continues to be the case.

I believe that there is a place for SSRI medication. But I also believe that the patients in receipt of this treatment have a right to make informed choices which they cannot do in the absence of valid information on their treatment, which includes side effects and resources to support such episodes.

Good luck with your meeting tomorrow, Steven. Let me know how you get on

[steveo]

Thanks Cat. Unfortunately I'm not part of the meeting. It's done on my behalf from the assessment that 2 mental health nurses made when they came over the other night so I'm unable to speak to the psychiatrist but if there is anything I'm not happy about then I'll demand to see him or at the very least speak to him via phone.

I also failed my mention my current diazapam problem so I need to call early tomorrow before their meeting!

x

[Serenitie]

Thanks Cat. Unfortunately I'm not part of the meeting. It's done on my behalf from the assessment that 2 mental health nurses made when they came over the other night so I'm unable to speak to the psychiatrist but if there is anything I'm not happy about then I'll demand to see him or at the very least speak to him via phone.

I also failed my mention my current diazapam problem so I need to call early tomorrow before their meeting!

x

Yes, do update them on your diazepam use and make sure that they have the full facts to assess appropriate future treatment. Keep us posted on the outcome of this meeting, Steven.

You have made significant progress in the last few days and got things moving in terms of re-assessing your current treatment. Things are on the up for you Just think about how you were feeling this time last week.

I see that your feisty side is re emerging and you are fighting your corner, which is great! Just balance your reading and fighting your corner with a little you time and self care. It's all about balance, like we spoke about - something that I have to consciously be aware of and practice for ongoing progress! Not easy at times but you do reap the benefits

You have a lot of support here to encourage your continued progress.

Enjoy the remainder of your weekend

Cat x

[ricardo]

Serenitie
it appears that I seem to take issue with some part of each of your posts and though you started practising as a mental health social worker in the late 90's for you to say that A GP has less than 1 weeks specialist mental health training out of the 7 years they train is totally incorrect, how do I know because my uncle is a practising GP., and attends refresher courses every year in England.
Then you go on to say When we suffer a bereavement or crisis it is a perfectly natural response to feel awful. Why medicate these feelings? A little support and space to grieve is often all that is needed and essential to develop coping strategies for future use. A referral to counselling would be much more beneficial, but the lack of counselling resources often means that medication is offered as a 'quick fix'.

I am sure your attentions are honourable but no two cases are the same and personally speaking when I suffered bereavement of both of my parents within 3 years no amount of counsilling would have helped at the time.
Patients are not always in a position to make an informed choice if they are close to having a breakdown.
Your post is informative but it is too generalised.

[steveo]

Speaking for myself - I think when Serenitie says - "When we suffer a bereavement or crisis it is a perfectly natural response to feel awful. Why medicate these feelings?" she is agreeing with me that to prescribe SSRI's to someone who is suffering from a bereavement is an awful thing to do. A SSRI isn't a quick fix for a bereavement! That suggests this person has a Serotonin issue!! My girlfriend doesn't have a serotonin issue, she just needs some time to bereave.
In my opinion, to prescribe SSRI's for someone who just came into the GP to get a sick note for a bereavement is absolutely appalling behaviour!
No amount of medication or counselling was going to get my girlfriend over her brothers death... the only thing that does is TIME. Feeling sad because we lose a loved one DOES NOT mean that we require an SSRI!
I understand you can't take SSRI's Ricardo but from a point of view of having taken them for many many years, taking them again, and doing many years study into them, I have slowly learnt that they are NOT a safe medication and not to be handed out lightly like paracetamol! These are psychoactive drugs, they mess around with the chemical reactions in our brains under an unproven theory that depressed or anxious people suffer from a lack of Serotonin.
My girlfriend has now been given the time off she needed and is now feeling MUCH better thanks to just TIME. Had she been medicated then she would be going through the absolute wonders of trying to withdraw from Diazapam and SSRI's and be going through another hell.

[ricardo]

Steveo

As I said previously no two people are the same and neither is their level of either anxiety,depression or any other related mental ilness.
it would be wonderful if we could all live practically normal lives without any medication but just reading through the countless posts on here most people are on some medication or another.
Some of course do conquer their illness, and let's face it is an illness which none of us pre emptied and over the years it has been proved that many drugs administered in the 70's and 80's are now known to have had more long term harm than good,but it took twenty years to find that out.
SSRI's maybe the answer for many and now CBT for others and of course there are more ancient routes eminating from the far east which is an option to many.
There is no definite answer I am afraid with regards to medication but in my case,where i have failed miserably is that one can get into a comfort zone and never progress further.Those who have had the will power to conquer their illness i admire tremendously.
I belive a lot of this is in own's genes and people are positive or negative by nature and therefore again i say it is hard to generalise.

[Tish]

I'm right with you on your opinions Steveo. I'm 55 now but suffered my first episode of anxiety when I was 24 and my GP put me straight onto Ativan! There were no sites like this then or google to see what was hapenning to me so I was petrified of the sensations. Looking back I can see it was probably hormonal after just having my third child. The drugs made me 100 times worse and the compulsion to throw myself under a bus or off a bridge was almost too much to resist. I'm really angry when I think back to that treatment.
I'm now suffering again after losing my son in an accident (so I can relate to your girlfriends feelings). The pain of grief has been unbearable but I also know that I have no choice but to bear it and I'm doing it without drugs. Grief is a natural state, as is sadness.
I can also understand a GP's point of view, he has to be seen to doing SOMETHING and also people actually want medication as a 'quick fix'. they have no idea what they're getting into.
I'm so glad you've found this site to share your feelings. I can't bear to think of your suffering and that you might be compelled to take your own life, knowing the immense pain this causes to loved ones left behind. Please try and stay strong, life never stays this bad for ever. You WILL rise again. x

[Serenitie]

Serenitie
it appears that I seem to take issue with some part of each of your posts and though you started practising as a mental health social worker in the late 90's for you to say that A GP has less than 1 weeks specialist mental health training out of the 7 years they train is totally incorrect, how do I know because my uncle is a practising GP., and attends refresher courses every year in England.
Then you go on to say When we suffer a bereavement or crisis it is a perfectly natural response to feel awful. Why medicate these feelings? A little support and space to grieve is often all that is needed and essential to develop coping strategies for future use. A referral to counselling would be much more beneficial, but the lack of counselling resources often means that medication is offered as a 'quick fix'.

I am sure your attentions are honourable but no two cases are the same and personally speaking when I suffered bereavement of both of my parents within 3 years no amount of counsilling would have helped at the time.
Patients are not always in a position to make an informed choice if they are close to having a breakdown.
Your post is informative but it is too generalised.

Hi Ricardo

I think that it is healthy for you to disagree and voice your opinions. I do not take this personally. I'm very passionate about the issues discussed but that does not mean that I think everyone should agree with me. My opinions are formed through years of personal and professional experience, but I appreciate that people's experiences will vary.

I agree, practicing GP's do have refresher training at intervals, but as General Practitioners they only studied a mental health module lasting up to a week in their original training. I find this wholly inadequate when such a high proportion of GP visits are mental health related, increasing year by year (second only to back complaints as far as I recall and maybe obesity related problems now).

I find it very unsettling when I know more about my medication and symptoms than my own GP. My last contact with a GP involved a discussion about depersonalisation and derealisation. It was a very brief conversation as she did not know what these symptoms were! She is relatively young, which suggests to me that little had changed in terms of General Practice training.

Put very bluntly, looking at this from a different perspective, I would not trust a hairdresser to cut and colour my hair if they had only had a weeks training with refresher courses annually, so why would I trust a GP with my mental health? (Without at the very least questioning their methods or knowledge base).

I am in complete agreement with you, Ricardo, that no two cases of bereavement or crisis are the same. I started SSRIs following the death of my uncle who I nursed through cancer. I would have benefited hugely from bereavement counselling to work through my grief, but it was not available. I was not given the choice. Consequently, I did not process my grief and had issues and huge difficulties dealing with loss (not just bereavement) as a consequence for many years later, as I never learned strategies to deal with these issues. This impacted negatively and caused a deterioration in my mental health, which spiralled downwards when I lost another close family member again some years later. Until I processed my grief and learned coping strategies and developed resilience, no amount of medication helped me. It just masked the problem.

I'm really not saying that medication should never be issued. Practice guidelines state that it should not be a first line treatment. It so often is. Of course there will be exceptions. But look at it this way - if we never developed resilience through coping (with appropriate support) through whatever crisis be it bereavement or otherwise, how do we ever have that resilience or the skills to deal with future crisis's which we will inevitably face?

My concern and experience is that automatic medicating of such life events leads to learned helplessness where people never learn to cope independently of medication, where this is possible.

In relation to your last point, I have to disagree. In most cases of mental distress, with few exceptions (usually psychotic episodes) individuals remain capable of making an informed choice. It is often the lack of information in the first place or feeling that a person in distress is not being listened to that is a source of huge distress to them. Steven's own experience is a case in point.

I have sectioned people who were unable to self care or posed a risk to others. However, even at this stage of extreme distress, I consulted with them on how they would like to proceed with their transportation to hospital and other decisions which they were able to make or contribute to in relation to their hospital care, which family to contact and temporary re-homing of pets during their hospitalisation.

I stand pretty firm on user involvement in their care and actively advocate listening to people and giving them the ability to make informed choices.

---------- Post added at 20:16 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------

Steveo

There is no definite answer I am afraid with regards to medication but in my case,where i have failed miserably is that one can get into a comfort zone and never progress further.Those who have had the will power to conquer their illness i admire tremendously.

I don't believe for one minute that you have failed miserably, Ricardo. I think that the system has failed you as it fails so many. Your recovery and progress is by no means over. It is a case of finding what works for you. You have as much strength within you to make progress as any one of us do along with the right support. Not at all easy, but the length of time of your struggle does not make recovery impossible. Hard and painful, absolutely. But never impossible

[ricardo]

Serenitie,

one day I will put a post up about my own situation but for personal reasons I have too much going on in my life at the moment which affects me,my daughter who has an icurable ilness and the pending move back to England, and of course my wife who is in the midlle of all of this.

These are major issues which have to be dealt with.

For various reasons i have to be in the right frame of mind to do this accurately,so forgive me for the moment.