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Thread: Cbt - worked or not?

  1. #11
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    Re: Cbt - worked or not?

    i waited well over a year for this cbt, gosh even longer, as had breakdown in oct 2012 and think might been bout jan they said they were going to refer, cant remember when i first had initial app before they then put me on waiting list... um il ata try and chec kwhen it was...
    yeh bit scared of saying how much it not working but think i am going to tell her how bad i am feeling when i see her this week

  2. #12
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    Re: Cbt - worked or not?

    Wow, BobbyDog, 5 sessions is NOTHING! That is unbelievable. It takes me more than that to even trust a therapist!! If you figure the first 2/3 you still aren't totally trusting them, that gives you 2 for real work if anything. That is ridiculous.

    When I had a therapist that I really thought was helpful for some issues in my life, I saw her for over a year and a half.

    ---------- Post added at 18:29 ---------- Previous post was at 18:29 ----------

    And Oh no, don't feel badly about hurting her feelings. You are being honest. She can't help you the way you truly need help if she doesn't know what is and isn't working. It's just part of the process.

  3. #13
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    Re: Cbt - worked or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyDog View Post
    Funny you should mention this topic, my son has just finished 5 sessions with IAPT(NHS), he was just beginning to open up to her and the counselling came to an end. She said he needed further counselling and has referred him to a "charity" to be placed on the waiting list. Waste of flipping time. I have the utmost respect for any and all charities, the cuts the national health are making are putting them under so much pressure. Needless to say it was a waste of time, I just hope he starts to feel better soon, he has been through so much recently.

    I could rant on about this for hours as a lot of the psychological services in our area have been closed down.
    In my city its a little different and my GP referred me and I went straight to a charity. It seems that the charities are obtaining grants from the NHS to provide services to fill the gaps.

    The charity I went with provided Level 2 Guided Self Help for 5 telephone sessions after the initial consultation and then referred me up to Level 3 High Intensity which was CBT.

    It is a bit bureaucratic as well because I was told by my GP I needed CBT, then told at the initial consultation that I needed CBT but couldn't access it as the guidelines states you have to do Level 2 first! I was willing to accept any help so went through that and then wad told I was being put onto a standard waiting list to get to the next level which was frustrating when they assessed me 5 weeks earlier an said I needed Level 3 anyway!

    ---------- Post added at 05:09 ---------- Previous post was at 05:06 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by swgrl09 View Post
    Wow, BobbyDog, 5 sessions is NOTHING! That is unbelievable. It takes me more than that to even trust a therapist!! If you figure the first 2/3 you still aren't totally trusting them, that gives you 2 for real work if anything. That is ridiculous.

    When I had a therapist that I really thought was helpful for some issues in my life, I saw her for over a year and a half.

    The services are still quite poor in the UK. When I first started with the GAD 8 years ago, the only option was a 12 month waiting list so I didn't bother. When I relapsed about 3 years ago, the NICE guidelines were being adhered to and there was a 30 day access service, Level 2 and the more intensive Level 3 for CBT.

    Its still a mess though as whilst we have a national health service, they allow local boards to determine standards so regions are not receiving the same services and some people are still stuck with the old 12 month waiting lists.

    ---------- Post added at 05:12 ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by oh no_1 View Post
    has anyone else ever had CBT through NHS and it not worked?
    how long was each session and how long u have it for?
    Yes, CBT isn't successful for everyone.

    I had 15 sessions at 45-60 minutes each with a couple of follow up reviews. It helped, but it didn't work enough for me but part of this was because I wasn't pushing myself enough and I found I did start to reach certain goals afterwards using the techniques.

    Sadly, even 15 sessions is not very long when you've had years of complex problems and I think this is part of the reason why mine didn't work.

    If you are not connecting with the therapist, then one of the most crucial elements is flawed. Therapists have to be prepared for this and to refer clients on to a colleague if needed.

  4. #14

    Re: Cbt - worked or not?

    I was refered by my doctor to our local mental health group, and eventually had 14 sessions of CBT , each lasting about an hour. Some of the tips helped me , but I sometimes felt I had talked for 50 mins , and just got limited advice. I have been referrred back for some more sessions and I have asked for a different therapist as the one i had was okay, but not really pushing me to succeed somehow.
    I cant believe the poster who only gets 30 mins sessions, and is then forced to fill out the form in that as well. You should complain to somebody about that - if you dont it wont stop. Even the best therapist in the world couldnt succeed in 20 min sessions.
    I think CBT is great for people with mild Anxiety, but for those of us with deep rooted / long term Anxiety , then its part of the medicine.
    Bottom line is the NHS still isnt really geared up for mental illnesses. Having had my initial sessions, Ive had to be re-referred and then sit on a waiting list again - how ridiculous is that.

  5. #15
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    Re: Cbt - worked or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by mr benn View Post
    I was refered by my doctor to our local mental health group, and eventually had 14 sessions of CBT , each lasting about an hour. Some of the tips helped me , but I sometimes felt I had talked for 50 mins , and just got limited advice. I have been referrred back for some more sessions and I have asked for a different therapist as the one i had was okay, but not really pushing me to succeed somehow.
    I cant believe the poster who only gets 30 mins sessions, and is then forced to fill out the form in that as well. You should complain to somebody about that - if you dont it wont stop. Even the best therapist in the world couldnt succeed in 20 min sessions.
    I think CBT is great for people with mild Anxiety, but for those of us with deep rooted / long term Anxiety , then its part of the medicine.
    Bottom line is the NHS still isnt really geared up for mental illnesses. Having had my initial sessions, Ive had to be re-referred and then sit on a waiting list again - how ridiculous is that.
    Just more bureaucracy again.

    I agree, I think CBT could work for some but its too short and not supported enough to succeed with a lot of us. Talking about things is one thing but having the strength to do things is a bigger ask and I think CBT falls short on helping people to do this latter part.

  6. #16
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    Re: Cbt - worked or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by oh no_1 View Post
    has anyone else ever had CBT through NHS and it not worked?
    how long was each session and how long u have it for?
    About 10 years ago I was in a really bad place and completely agoraphobic. I had about 12 sessions of CBT combined with high doses of medication, it did help. However it wasn't nearly enough to cure the problem or deal with the root issues at all.

    Since then I've had short courses of CBT a couple of times and found it unhelpful, bordering on making me worse actually. I think I understand the concepts but applying it doesn't seem to help to a level where I would say I am 'well'.

    The other problem is these days services are very over stretched and only offer very short courses, sometimes only a handful of 40 mins sessions. This is not enough to get to know and trust the therapist and at best this can only deal with one mild to moderate issues at a time. It is no good if you have a severe problem or multiple issues that stem right back to childhood.

    I also feel CBT is really over hyped now, for pretty much every issue someone will recommend CBT. CBT is good, it helps many, but it should not be the only treatment on offer and it is not a panacea. I find it a bit patronising and kind of simplistic in the way it tries to break down complex experiences into thoughts, emotions and actions. The idea that all thoughts are in our control and just putting a positive spin on everything will fix everything isn't helpful. It seems to stem purely from the idea that the unhelpful thoughts make us unwell but I'm not sure I agree. I think there is a significant chemical / hormonal element to it all as well. For me CBT is one step above "pull yourself together and get a grip" advice you might get from a 'helpful' friend.
    Last edited by yenool; 01-10-14 at 20:26.

  7. #17
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    Re: Cbt - worked or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by yenool View Post
    About 10 years ago I was in a really bad place and completely agoraphobic. I had about 12 sessions of CBT combined with high doses of medication, it did help. However it wasn't nearly enough to cure the problem or deal with the root issues at all.

    Since then I've had short courses of CBT a couple of times and found it unhelpful, bordering on making me worse actually. I think I understand the concepts but applying it doesn't seem to help to a level where I would say I am 'well'.

    The other problem is these days services are very over stretched and only offer very short courses, sometimes only a handful of 40 mins sessions. This is not enough to get to know and trust the therapist and at best this can only deal with one mild to moderate issues at a time. It is no good if you have a severe problem or multiple issues that stem right back to childhood.

    I also feel CBT is really over hyped now, for pretty much every issue someone will recommend CBT. CBT is good, it helps many, but it should not be the only treatment on offer and it is not a panacea. I find it a bit patronising and kind of simplistic in the way it tries to break down complex experiences into thoughts, emotions and actions. The idea that all thoughts are in our control and just putting a positive spin on everything will fix everything isn't helpful. It seems to stem purely from the idea that the unhelpful thoughts make us unwell but I'm not sure I agree. I think there is a significant chemical / hormonal element to it all as well. For me CBT is one step above "pull yourself together and get a grip" advice you might get from a 'helpful' friend.
    Its well known that its more than just the thoughts. CBT tries to aim at changing how you react and there is something in it because I find that I can have 2 identical days but be completely different, one day lost with negative thoughts, the other positive with positive thoughts.

    Just look at the scientific studies showing how neurons work and the studies of Mindfulness meditation on the brain.

    One of the problems I find is that CBT is touted as a therapy aimed at challenging thoughts and its not. Its a combination of earlier Behavioural Therapy and Cognitive Therapy. Both of these therapies used experiences in their forms although BT was more dependent on it. So, are we getting the full CBT?

    It is a bit annoying that whatever you look up on NHS direct, there is a 50/50 chance of finding CBT in the "Managing your condition" section. I'm not convinced with this and sometimes wonder if its a modern mind over matter quote.

    I think when it comes to the NHS, they have a big gap and they have filled it with CBT because its cheap and quick and ticks a box. Perhaps that gets people off their backs for a while?

  8. #18
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    Re: Cbt - worked or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsTerry View Post
    Its well known that its more than just the thoughts. CBT tries to aim at changing how you react and there is something in it because I find that I can have 2 identical days but be completely different, one day lost with negative thoughts, the other positive with positive thoughts.

    Just look at the scientific studies showing how neurons work and the studies of Mindfulness meditation on the brain.

    One of the problems I find is that CBT is touted as a therapy aimed at challenging thoughts and its not. Its a combination of earlier Behavioural Therapy and Cognitive Therapy. Both of these therapies used experiences in their forms although BT was more dependent on it. So, are we getting the full CBT?

    It is a bit annoying that whatever you look up on NHS direct, there is a 50/50 chance of finding CBT in the "Managing your condition" section. I'm not convinced with this and sometimes wonder if its a modern mind over matter quote.

    I think when it comes to the NHS, they have a big gap and they have filled it with CBT because its cheap and quick and ticks a box. Perhaps that gets people off their backs for a while?
    Well whatever the correct technical definition I find trying to apply techniques isn't helping.

    Everything you read about therapy is CBT, every help book is ****ing CBT. The world has become obsessed with CBT and its 'evidence' base. I mean if you study one thing almost exclusively there is going to be a larger evidence base for it. Surely there should be some other kind of treatments available too, even the NICE guidelines recognise a role for other types of treatment, it is just nobody funds it.

    I agree with your last line. The cynical part of me thinks CBT is preferred because it is relatively cheap and the nature of the therapy means they can 'tick box' to 'prove' that the patient has made progress.


    IDK, I'm past caring at the moment, can't really ever see a situation where I am feeling well emotionally and physically.

  9. #19
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    Re: Cbt - worked or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by yenool View Post
    Well whatever the correct technical definition I find trying to apply techniques isn't helping.

    Everything you read about therapy is CBT, every help book is ****ing CBT. The world has become obsessed with CBT and its 'evidence' base. I mean if you study one thing almost exclusively there is going to be a larger evidence base for it. Surely there should be some other kind of treatments available too, even the NICE guidelines recognise a role for other types of treatment, it is just nobody funds it.

    I agree with your last line. The cynical part of me thinks CBT is preferred because it is relatively cheap and the nature of the therapy means they can 'tick box' to 'prove' that the patient has made progress.


    IDK, I'm past caring at the moment, can't really ever see a situation where I am feeling well emotionally and physically.
    In some ways I see CBT as a blocker because you get referred to it for everything when a more appropriate therapy may be needed. I think part of the problem is that CBT sits within psychotherapy yet people tend to refer to that separetely and looking at the stepped care model it seems that CBT sits on the level below these more intensive therapies. The stepped care model gives GP's an excuse for bureaucracy as they don't need to refer us for the appropriate form when they can rely on the steps. Another issue is probably that GP's can't even determine the style of therapy required so just shove everyone in the CBT bracket and let people get diagnosed and referred to the correct forms of therapy as they advance through the levels.

    So, whilst the stepped care model may work for lower levels of anxiety, it just puts a set of blocks in the way of the more advanced cases. For me, if I had gone to Level 4 it would have taken me years due to having CBT...but did I need CBT or something else? Who knows. I've given up on the NHS now as my GP doesn't want to refer for anything so I've joined this place and not seen him in over a year...he has never noticed, just signs the prescriptions.

    I think, from what I read, the NHS pulled the plug on the more intensive therapies due to cost and conveniently CBT arrived. This tells me that one replaced the other due to cost as much as evidence. Some regions give other forms of psychotherapy but one of the big problems with the NHS is its local trusts who then decide what to offer causing regions to operate differently.

    I wonder if you can get a referral to a psychologist where the correct form of therapy can be determined? I was offered this but then once assessed the waiting list for any treatment is a minimum 12 months. Some areas don't even have the Level 4 though so god knows what happens to them...they most likely just suffer with no help and a GP that just dishes out the pills and doesn't try to help them.

  10. #20
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    Re: Cbt - worked or not?

    well i am back there today for cbt, driving 45 mins to get there for 30 mins and then driving 45 mins al the way home again! hope it worth it!

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