Sectioned 136 Act

[Richard1960]

Every custody unit is recorded (audio and visual) so ask for the copies. Your solicitor can ask for you.
Your "rights" is that you have access to a solicitor in custody , FREE. A custody Sgt will notify one if you requested it when you were being "booked in" OR at any time during your detention.
Now the reason you were not given access to your medication is that whilst in custody (or a "place of safety") the police under Sect 136 are responsible for your safety and they have to be sure that you have not already taken medication and therefore could overdose. Remember they are not Drs and do not know what type of meds you are on or psychiatrists. The "panel" you describe would have been qualified to make the assessment. It should have consisted of a GP, psychiatric nurse and Social Worker (qualified to make an assessment).
You do nor have a "right" to make a phone call. That is an American law. You only have the right to have someone notified of you detention i.e. Solicitor, family member or friend.

Hope that helps

Thanks the trust refused me a call to a solicitor the police this afternoon said that was their responsibility.,Minds legal team have pointed me in there right direction today but a lot of what they told me i had already done.

The care quality commission have been informed,as has PALs,i was given no assessment in the 13.5 hours i was there IE no doctor visited me,the only people i had contact with were the panel that released me right away.

I have also downloaded the policy of the trust that detained me and have already identified 5 policies of theirs they ignored.

This one is going to have very long legs believe me.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Every custody unit is recorded (audio and visual) so ask for the copies. Your solicitor can ask for you.
Your "rights" is that you have access to a solicitor in custody , FREE. A custody Sgt will notify one if you requested it when you were being "booked in" OR at any time during your detention.
Now the reason you were not given access to your medication is that whilst in custody (or a "place of safety") the police under Sect 136 are responsible for your safety and they have to be sure that you have not already taken medication and therefore could overdose. Remember they are not Drs and do not know what type of meds you are on or psychiatrists. The "panel" you describe would have been qualified to make the assessment. It should have consisted of a GP, psychiatric nurse and Social Worker (qualified to make an assessment).
You do nor have a "right" to make a phone call. That is an American law. You only have the right to have someone notified of you detention i.e. Solicitor, family member or friend.

Hope that helps

Yes, but in this case the police did not take Richard to a police custody suite, they took him to a hospital and at that point the police are no longer responsible as they leave once the hospital take over responsibility. The police will wait with you until you are seen initially though.

In a custody suite scenario, they take everything off you which is fair but this is a long term scenario where late assessment (but still within the alloted time) will cause further distress due to withdrawal since most SSRI/SNRI's have a 36hr life. They have a police doctor but I wouldn't think the police would want to hold someone for 3 days while a panel assesses them, they tend to take them to a hospital where they have such facilities normally. Although the act allows for a place of safety including the police station, I can't say I have heard of that being used unless they have affected an arrest but I could easily be wrong here as its only based on my own experience of these things and police forces differ in their approaches. If they do keep them at a police station, I would expect them to consider meditation needs or they are making the person worse which just creates a case for them being sued for mishandling.

---------- Post added at 03:30 ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 ----------

Thanks Terry i had the police phone me up yesterday to put me off making a complaint for their non understanding of section 136 section 58 1984 of the police criminal evidence act ,which actually states.

The person removed has a right of access to legal advice regardless of where the person is detained. Legal Advice when requested should be facilitated by the police.

They are trying to blame the mental health unit for not informing them,i said to him i though it was up to the police to know the law and this guy was a sergeant.!

i have two complaints in three if you include the one about the police.

And have also taken legal advice from a no win no fee solicitor as well as from my own trade union Terry.

Hope you are ok too Richard.

I guess he could be stating that they had transferred you into the hospital and unless the hospital contact them to state you have requested this right, they would have no idea. In that case, I would imagine its the fault of the Trust unless there is something in the Act which states the police should be following up with them at certain intervals to determine if you have requested legal assistance.

Did the police only take you there? If so, if the Act allows for them to transfer responsibility to the Trust, then its likely they relinquish their duties to you at the point of official transfer. If they kept you at one of their facilities, they would remain responsible until such time as you were transferred or let go.

I haven't read the act so I'm just trying to understand why he may say that.

I would always be careful with a complaint to the police, unless it goes to the IPCC, its going to be 'in-house' and there have been plenty of examples of police cover ups over the years. I would see what your legal representation believes to be correct on that issue.

[mikewales]

Richard, I was just wondering what were the circumstances that caused them to section you in the first place ?

[Richard1960]

Yes, but in this case the police did not take Richard to a police custody suite, they took him to a hospital and at that point the police are no longer responsible as they leave once the hospital take over responsibility. The police will wait with you until you are seen initially though.

In a custody suite scenario, they take everything off you which is fair but this is a long term scenario where late assessment (but still within the alloted time) will cause further distress due to withdrawal since most SSRI/SNRI's have a 36hr life. They have a police doctor but I wouldn't think the police would want to hold someone for 3 days while a panel assesses them, they tend to take them to a hospital where they have such facilities normally. Although the act allows for a place of safety including the police station, I can't say I have heard of that being used unless they have affected an arrest but I could easily be wrong here as its only based on my own experience of these things and police forces differ in their approaches. If they do keep them at a police station, I would expect them to consider meditation needs or they are making the person worse which just creates a case for them being sued for mishandling.

---------- Post added at 03:30 ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 ----------



I guess he could be stating that they had transferred you into the hospital and unless the hospital contact them to state you have requested this right, they would have no idea. In that case, I would imagine its the fault of the Trust unless there is something in the Act which states the police should be following up with them at certain intervals to determine if you have requested legal assistance.

Did the police only take you there? If so, if the Act allows for them to transfer responsibility to the Trust, then its likely they relinquish their duties to you at the point of official transfer. If they kept you at one of their facilities, they would remain responsible until such time as you were transferred or let go.

I haven't read the act so I'm just trying to understand why he may say that.

I would always be careful with a complaint to the police, unless it goes to the IPCC, its going to be 'in-house' and there have been plenty of examples of police cover ups over the years. I would see what your legal representation believes to be correct on that issue.

Yes the trust are fully responsible for contacting a solicitor just had my unions legal team on the phone.

So the trust did not follow its own procedure my doctor today was also very surprised i was refused my medication,that was prescribed for my erin problem and depression.

---------- Post added at 10:47 ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 ----------

Richard, I was just wondering what were the circumstances that caused them to section you in the first place ?

I will post later mike as its a long story.

[Richard1960]

Richard, I was just wondering what were the circumstances that caused them to section you in the first place ?

I had an altercation with a railway guard Mike, who said i had the wrong ticket,so i got off the train at the next stop and went back to the main station,the staff there did not want to help me and the area manager told me i had the wrong ticket and said the ticket was not valid.When i was assured at the station i bought from it was, i had spent nearly half a day sorting it out (with the area manager). with still no resolution and i hate being thought of as a fare cheat,

When on the way home i had a really bad depressive episode on a station platform and i mean bad.So was arrested under section 136 for my own safety,

I spent a night there(mental health unit custody suite) being denied the right to call a solicitor and my medication prescribed by a different branch of the same trust for my illness.

Anyway the rail company area manager rang me up yesterday and confirmed my ticket was indeed valid and even sent me an email to say it was, apparently he said the conductor and he the area manager were confused about the historical wording on the ticket which apparently went back years. They offered an apology and compensation but it ruined which should have been for me a relaxing day which really upset me,and pushed me a bit too far over the edge,

I really wish people who are paid far higher the me actually knew what they are doing.

This is not the first time it has happened to me either and the last time i was proved right,which is why i asked for the email i can download it and carry it around with me so this kind of thing should not happen in future.

[Lucinda07]

Appalling treatment by railway staff. They all need LOTS of training.
Keep the email & go for that compensation!
Hope things start to improve for you now.

[MyNameIsTerry]

A catalogue of errors for you then Richard. Does this area manager (someone who doesn't understand a ticket! Surely this is a very basic issue to a firm that operates a rail network with loads of lethal heavy objects racinjg back & forth?) know what this led to? I would expect them to be trying to prevent this reaching the media as these stories are well sort after.

How are you doing now? Still doing well?

[mikewales]

Glad to hear you at least got some resolution with the train people. Not often they actually admit to a mistake, but you have proof you were right.

With the police it sounds like they were very worried about your personal safety, and as much as anything wanted to keep you locked up so they could keep an eye on you and make sure you calmed down and were OK. Sadly they aren't that well trained in dealing with depression etc... so can often only really go by the rules they are given.

I think with the meds that was a precautionary thing as they had no way of knowing if you had taken anything else, and if they would react with them or cause you problems, so from their point of view it is safer to not let you take anything else until enough time has passed to make sure you haven't overdosed on anything else before they took you in.

[Richard1960]

A catalogue of errors for you then Richard. Does this area manager (someone who doesn't understand a ticket! Surely this is a very basic issue to a firm that operates a rail network with loads of lethal heavy objects racinjg back & forth?) know what this led to? I would expect them to be trying to prevent this reaching the media as these stories are well sort after.

How are you doing now? Still doing well?

Hi Terry this os just one line from the emaoil sent me.


The problem arises with the last two zone routes: "Via Ely" which means Norfolk and Cambs, and "Via Cambridge" which means Cambridgeshire only. So an Anglia Plus ticket routed Via Ely is valid anywhere in the Norfolk and Cambridgeshire zones, i.e. Cambridge to Norwich, plus Bury to Cambridge and Ely, plus Norwich to Sheringham/Yarmouth/Lowestoft/Diss. As this ticket is a season ticket it is not purely for leisure travel and can be used at any time of day during its period of validity.



We are aware that the route code "Via Ely" is misleading. It dates back to Anglia Railways days. We can change it but it is not a simple process. At present it is up to conductors to know that the Route Ely ticket is valid in Cambs and Norfolk.


But this has happened twice to me and they just blame the conductors rather then solve the problem by adjusting what they put on the tickets even the area managers do not fully understand it.

Richard.

---------- Post added at 08:50 ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 ----------

Glad to hear you at least got some resolution with the train people. Not often they actually admit to a mistake, but you have proof you were right.

With the police it sounds like they were very worried about your personal safety, and as much as anything wanted to keep you locked up so they could keep an eye on you and make sure you calmed down and were OK. Sadly they aren't that well trained in dealing with depression etc... so can often only really go by the rules they are given.

I think with the meds that was a precautionary thing as they had no way of knowing if you had taken anything else, and if they would react with them or cause you problems, so from their point of view it is safer to not let you take anything else until enough time has passed to make sure you haven't overdosed on anything else before they took you in.

Thanks Mike on balance you could have hit the nail on the head its just they did not explain to me reasons for what they were doing i just felt like a walking diagnosis then a human being sorry.

[SarahH]

If you feel that you were treated badly at anytime the Police detained you (from arrest until being taken to the 136 suite or a police station) you can contact the IPCC directly and make a complaint... believe me they do thoroughly investigate complaints (as a retired police officer I have been the other end of complaints). If the have breached PACE codes of practice then heads will roll. People sectioned did, until recently get taken to custody but it is more likely that you were taken to a 136 suite which means when you were handed over you are out of police custody.

Keep going.... but don't let it get you too anxious

Sarah