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Thread: Symptoms come and go

  1. #21
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    Re: Symptoms come and go

    Why does someone suffer from a thought they push to the back of the mind ? Let me guess - its resting in the subconscious mind ? I think mindfulness has the potential to be harmful as well as good because what if one day you think 'this ain't working anymore' so you are left with unresolved problems - what then ? More mindfulness ? I agree it probably beneficial to people with less serious problems but people with serious problems it is useless as if they can hardly get out of bed they ain't thinking anyway they are just numb so they are doing mindfulness anyway as they are basically a crazy person with no thoughts

  2. #22
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    Re: Symptoms come and go

    Quote Originally Posted by I'mdave27 View Post
    Why does someone suffer from a thought they push to the back of the mind ? Let me guess - its resting in the subconscious mind ? I think mindfulness has the potential to be harmful as well as good because what if one day you think 'this ain't working anymore' so you are left with unresolved problems - what then ? More mindfulness ? I agree it probably beneficial to people with less serious problems but people with serious problems it is useless as if they can hardly get out of bed they ain't thinking anyway they are just numb so they are doing mindfulness anyway as they are basically a crazy person with no thoughts
    I think you need to read about mindfulness yourself to understand it better.
    Thoughts are not the same as problems. Mindfulness doesn't stop you dealing with your problems - in fact, it gives greater clarity to help you deal with them. It's not about not thinking either, as I said previously.

  3. #23
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    Re: Symptoms come and go

    You are being deceived baby

  4. #24
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    Re: Symptoms come and go

    Quote Originally Posted by I'mdave27 View Post
    You are being deceived baby
    You're free to think that if you choose.
    And I'm not anyone's baby, thanks.

  5. #25
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    Re: Symptoms come and go

    Not even you're husbands ? Lol doesn't mindfulness teach you how to be less serious ? Obviously not. I recommend 'f'ck it therapy' if that's the case :-)

  6. #26
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    Re: Symptoms come and go

    Quote Originally Posted by I'mdave27 View Post
    Does mindfulness make the problem go away ? I'm sure someone with mental health problems fins it hard to stop to thinking which is why they are in the mess they are in and plus isn't mindfulness just a poor mans version of meditation ?
    No, Mindfulness comes from Buddhism so its been around for a very long time...much longer than the countries we live in in the west Dave.

    The point is Mindfulness retrains how you approach your thoughts so that you can focus more, which is the problem with anxiety as our thoughts are racing. Mindfulness trains you to still your mind and to return to the level of focus you had before you had an anxiety disorder...well better really.

    Meditation as you probably understand it was previouslt Transcendental Meditation (TM) and this was very popular for decades but it fell out of favour due to all the bizarre little groups that were using it to further their own agenda's.

    ---------- Post added at 05:36 ---------- Previous post was at 05:33 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by I'mdave27 View Post
    Ok that sounds good and I have tried it but it wasn't for me as I'm a sceptic because if are thoughts ain't us then who are they and why are they in my head ?
    Thoughts are not who we are Dave, otherwise Pure O sufferers and those of us with intrusive thoughts would be much different people. Besides, we have va prefrontal cortex which allows us to determine how we act, not react in accordance to our urges.

    You need to understand that there diffenent types of thoughts e.g. subconscious vs. conscious.

    ---------- Post added at 06:51 ---------- Previous post was at 05:36 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by I'mdave27 View Post
    Why does someone suffer from a thought they push to the back of the mind ? Let me guess - its resting in the subconscious mind ? I think mindfulness has the potential to be harmful as well as good because what if one day you think 'this ain't working anymore' so you are left with unresolved problems - what then ? More mindfulness ? I agree it probably beneficial to people with less serious problems but people with serious problems it is useless as if they can hardly get out of bed they ain't thinking anyway they are just numb so they are doing mindfulness anyway as they are basically a crazy person with no thoughts
    Mindfulness is in no way harmful Dave, clinical trials support its use in recurrent depression in the UK which have led to NICE recognition. Thats not counting all the work in the US where it first became popular in the works of Jon Kabat-Zinn & co.

    The subconscious mind stores emotions, feelings, memories and thoughts by associating neurons which is how we get anxiety disorders. The process occurs through neuroplasticity just like anything else we learn. Its proven neuroscience that through neuroplasticity we can change what we have learnt.

    Mindfulness has been studied using brain scanning techniques to show what is is doing. It was shown that the side of the brain associated with compassion was triggered by this practice. Doesn't that make sense when you consider its origins in Buddhism?

    There is no repression in this practice, repression is unhealthy.

    If anything, calming the mind and cultivating compassion & non judgemental behaviour is more appropriate in serious cases where this is a major struggle. More serious cases are not crazy people with no thoughts either, they are individuals who need help to recover or manage their condition.

    ---------- Post added at 06:52 ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by I'mdave27 View Post
    You are being deceived baby
    I would suggest you have a read about it Dave. Its clear that you haven't tried it as you don't understand the basic foundation principles. Its worth trying though, you've mentioned your mind races and you struggle to control compulsive book buying and Mindfulness would help with all of this.

    There is no religious context to it. It is not a cult.

    ---------- Post added at 06:54 ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by I'mdave27 View Post
    Not even you're husbands ? Lol doesn't mindfulness teach you how to be less serious ? Obviously not. I recommend 'f'ck it therapy' if that's the case :-)
    If you read Chickpea's responses you would see that it teaches you to be less judgemental, calmer and to regain a sense of focus.

    Its not about being less serious.

    ---------- Post added at 07:01 ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rennie1989 View Post
    Hiya all

    It's been a month now since the heavy depressive symptoms hit, and a few months since the last 'happy' phase started dwindling. For two and a half weeks it was difficult to do anything, and despite that I carried on going to work. When I was asked to change roles (part of my contract) I asked to postpone it because of my depression. My manager sympathised with me (and her secretary) and referred me for assessment. I had a difficult appointment at occupational health but later today I shall be booking myself for counselling sessions that they have recommended.

    I've tried to be more sociable, as was recommended, but every time I meet people (mostly family) I feel worse off afterwards, not got the foggiest why. It's almost as if I felt guilty that they had to be in my presence... maybe. I've even become more crafty, finding ideas of make my new home individual and more 'us'. Any sort of joy I get from these (the joy I so desperately need) is short lived and goes away.

    What is getting to me more is the fleeting symptoms. One day, or a half of one day, I get these strong symptoms of fatigue, no motivation, seclusion and dark thoughts of being worthless, a waste and ending it all. The next day, or half, I feel like I can manage through the day and I can hold a normal conversation with my husband and colleagues. The slightest of disappointments can change my mood completely, on Wednesday hubby told me that I may not be able to see my mum and aunts on the following Saturday, for two days (even though hubby found a solution with in the hour) I had the strong symptoms again.

    I even had an awful dream last night. I was taken to hospital for thoughts of taking my life where I was left to sit on my own in the corridor. I found a container of sutures and went to hack at my arm, but a nurse took the suture needle, leaving the forceps in my hand. It wasn't very sharp and I could only make superficial cuts. Despite objects that could cause harm were taken away from me I sat alone. I woke up this morning in a bit of a haze from it.

    I feel like I am on a fragile line between mental stability and unstability. I fear one knock could tip me over, and I fear losing the things that mean the most to me (hubby, job, college, home) that, if I wasn't depressed, would be the things that would/should make me happy, because I love all four.

    Aaaggghhh!!!!!!!! /rant
    Hang on there Rennie.

    I think many of us know where you are coming from. I've had some dark periods and when it comes the thoughts of self harm come with them. I've never done anything and can't, I have a family to consider, but they still come. I think this is just part of getting so down that we can't truly see what we have, although in a way we can. Its a strange feeling and I think frustration really gets the better of us.

    See what your counselling brings. Its good that your employer is understanding, its one less pressure.

    From reading a few of your posts about this it sounds like self worth is a big theme of your problem. I recall you talking to Oosh and how he mentioned you had been treated badly in the past. I can also see that you work very hard for others and to better yourself yet the self worth still seems an issue and I wonder if you are striving for something and becoming frustrated because you can't seem to find it?

    Do you think you put too much pressure on yourself?

    Can you identify what pulls you back into this situation?

    Oh, and ignore the stuff about insanity...thats just an ignorant view. Perhaps Dave meant that anxiety & depression do not lead to insanity which is something we are not aware of at all whereas we are alll aware of how we feel with anxiety & depression. Maybe that was badly put however later comments seem less sympathetic for some reason.

  7. #27
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    Re: Symptoms come and go

    I'm still not a convert sorry as it all sounds a bit silly to me and it looks like a religion with all this defending of it , I'm not into fluffy stuff. As I was saying you can't suggest mindfulness to a person who is about to go insane as they can't function or think straight if I said to my schizophrenic brother to try mindfulness he'd either laugh or just tell me to go away as in my family we believe in dealing with things head on we all have busy jobs except for my schizophrenic brother so mindfulness is out the window because we don't even have time for a proper meal let alone thinking of taking up mindfulness , we live in the real world

    ---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:40 ----------

    http://www.equities.com/index.php?op...etail&id=53935

  8. #28
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    Re: Symptoms come and go

    Sadly Dave, that website is a finance one and I think if I want to understand how Mindfulness helps with mental health, I will trust mental health professionals over a blogger with no name who could be any member of the public.

    They mentioned the ego of the artist because they are trying to convey an experience that this blogger is clearly not open to and resisted even trying. Its not a one time deal, you have to do this practice day in day out to see what it can do for people.

    This bit made me laugh "But, actually, more and more people are switching themselves off. They cannot even watch the news because they feel so powerless to do anything about it." which is completely flawed based on the fact there is nothing scrap of evidence to even back this claim up, many people struggle regardless of this practice and Mindfulness is nothing to do with taking action against something but will teach you how to accept things that you cannot change so that you don't cause yourself negative feelings...basically what anxiety is causing many of to do already. This part also made me laugh "but why are we to think less when we need to think more?" which means the author has completed missed the point that it is teaching us how to focus more productively which then means we apply this to all things so we don't ruminate which joins means we overthink and make the wrong decisions. I think the author needs to think more...about research, but I suspect this is either agenda based or just typical of bloggers creating articles they don't even believe in so they can sell themselves as being useful when no one really cares what they think.

    They seem to have a one sided approach which is typical of a corporate suit type. Perhaps they should spend time with any athlete so they can understand that winners have winning attitudes, its not all about lugging weights around and jogging sessions.

    Basically a cynic and very ignorant of the actual issue so perhaps they need to learn how to perform research? Failing that, a career awaits at The Daily Mail for them.

    I guuss I could post the numerous clinical studies, mental health professional articles, etc but I don't think the links would fit on this page...

    ---------- Post added at 03:19 ---------- Previous post was at 02:34 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by I'mdave27 View Post
    I'm still not a convert sorry as it all sounds a bit silly to me and it looks like a religion with all this defending of it , I'm not into fluffy stuff. As I was saying you can't suggest mindfulness to a person who is about to go insane as they can't function or think straight if I said to my schizophrenic brother to try mindfulness he'd either laugh or just tell me to go away as in my family we believe in dealing with things head on we all have busy jobs except for my schizophrenic brother so mindfulness is out the window because we don't even have time for a proper meal let alone thinking of taking up mindfulness , we live in the real world[COLOR="blue"]
    People are trying to explain it to you Dave. Therapists recommend it, NICE recommend if off the back of clinical studies which they have reviewed. Its not being defended, its being recommended because it can help just like therapy.

    There is no religious element. Like I said, it comes from Buddhism, which isn't a typical religion as its classed as a nontheistic religion (existence of god isn't refuted, its just not considered to be a creator or play a role in our existence). It isn't a cult either, despite what one anonymous blogger may believe. Its about personal spiritual improvement. No one is influencing what we do, there is no financial incentives going on, its not like Scientology.

    No, I agree. You can't suggest anything to someone who is experiencing episodes of a serious psychiatric illness but you can't potentially suggest anything to them, which is why we have a sectioning process. However, once stabilisation has taken place I would be expecting therapy to help them which can include all sorts of practices e.g. art, crafts, etc. So, perhaps helping them to calm their minds and see things from a more focussed angle would help them? I guess that depends on the illness and its one for a suitably qualified medical professional to advise on or discount.

    Having a busy job doesn't mean we don't have time for a proper meal Dave. Meditation can be done in a matter of minutes, so whillst people say they have no time, they do really. In fact if you read Professor Mark Williams Frantic World book, he will explain how this practice frees up our time because we become more productive. I completely agree with this because I can see how my work would have been better if I had adopted this practice to help me focus on my objectives in a better manner. It make sense to bring it into business because my own experience in projects & business analysis, managing teams, etc proved to me that we don't always work the right way, it takes a certain type of attitude to things and we don't get trained on this.

    I would suggest if you want to learn more about it, don;t Google for something in a negative way like this article which probably had the keyword 'cult' in the search. Look for reputable sources from independent people who are suitably qualified to comment on it. This blogger could be anybody, have their own agenda to push and is clearly not in any way qualified to even write an article due to such poor research let alone be qualified to discuss the subject.

    Honestly, you will find plenty of articles out there that say CBT is dangerous. It isn't.

    Tackling things 'head on' isn't allways successful with mental health disorders Dave. Think about acceptance, a passive strategy, but it helps people. If you find it works for you then thats great, but something I have learned since starting with GAD & OCD is that we sometimes have to change our beliefs in order to recover...I was status chasing and sticking it to people in my career because that was the environment. I didn't start out like that, its what we changed into but in going through this experience it has taught me how stunted that kind of behaviour is. People like that will remain stuck in a cycle of negative behaviour.

    I can understand where you are coming from though, I would have felt the same back in my days of negative thinking because a) I wouldn't see how you can think your way out of an anxiety disorder and b) it would be a bit silly, a leftie thing, something people do who are quite alternative.

    My views changed because I tried it upon recommendation from my CBT therapist. Now I recommend it because I have seen what it can do, that CBT couldn't.
    Last edited by MyNameIsTerry; 06-11-14 at 04:26.

  9. #29
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    Re: Symptoms come and go

    Well I always say people need to think more , not less. That's why the world is in such a mess. Anyway I'm not disagreeing with what your saying but nor am I agreeing but I wouldn't listen to mental health workers a 100%. If they so professional why is there so much mental illness ? Surely they'd have found something by now to make sceptics like me shut up !

    ---------- Post added at 08:28 ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 ----------

    Oh and by the way that's why I say it is like a religion because I don't agree with what you are saying I'm automatically labelled a negative thinker , ha ha. If one person disagrees with you put you're trust in it doesn't make them a negative thinker it makes them a thinker with a mind of their own ! Maybe you should try thinking for yourself instead of putting your trust in some nonse who tells you 'buy my book and you'll be cured'.

  10. #30
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    Re: Symptoms come and go

    No Dave, if you reread my post you will see that I was stating I was a negative thinker before I went through anxiety, its one of the things that got me in that situation.

    I do not trust 100% in mental health workers, try reading some of my posts and you will see I tell people to question their GP's and therapists. Again, do research rather than make assumptions.

    You can't not agree and not disagree at the same time otherwise you wouldn't be posting because you wouldn't have an opinion. You have stated an opinion, that you agree it could have some applications, but its not for all. Thats fine, thats your opinion which are entitled to. However, you then decided to back up your opinion with a poorly researched article from a nameless blogger who didn't even do their own research of the topic hence making themselves look a bit ridiculous in writing the article. Did you purposely look for an article like that in an attempt to validate an earlier opinion put to chickpea?

    The hilarious thing is that I am thinking for myself. I've done my research, my opinion is based on stated facts, not a pointless blogger. If your opinion of highly respected professors of psychology at Oxford uni who is backed by major mental health charities, is a 'nonce' thats your opinion but no one is going to share it. Pretty disgusting that you talk about people trying to help others in this manner, using a term for sex offender...its spelt with a 'c' by the way.

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