*******Articles of interest*******

[swgrl09]

I agree with you, a lot of people get a watered down CBT for many reasons.

Currently working in the field, it is frustrating with the limitations we have, be it insurance only paying for certain amount of visits, even then only providing 50 minutes at a time, having an insane amount of paperwork and not enough time to spend with clients, stress and pressure on providers to reach productivity standards or you get fired, and having the focus be on money and money alone. It is all backwards because if you treat people correctly and tailor treatment to the individual, you reduce recidivism and the need for people to return to higher levels of care, that in turn are more expensive for insurance companies to pay for. But that's an argument for another day ... don't get me started

There are models that access those trauma memories that are trapped in the brain, seemingly without a key. EMDR has been shown to be one of those models. There are providers in the IFS community, the model that has been helpful to me, and the sensorimotor psychotherapy community, doing research to demonstrate that they also have this ability. I'll have to look into it more, as I haven't had time to keep up with what has been going on. I have heard about trauma-based yoga being used for veterans with PTSD to access and release some of these memories. I also looked into ART, Accelerated Resolution Therapy, which is similar to EMDR with eye movements and the client rebuilds the memory in a different, safer way. We do this in IFS, be it accessing a trauma from childhood and having the person change the memory over time (have an adult be there to support them when they were unsafe, have them take over the situation and take control, whatever works for that person). The eye-movement therapies help access and alter those stuck spots for some reason.

So on a personal level, I needed more than CBT because I needed that deeper shift. I am still working on it. It is a long journey, it takes time, effort, commitment, and unfortunately in the USA it takes money, which also has gotten in the way. I am now paying out of pocket and it is a hit, but I found a therapist who works well with me and am trying to make it work. It sounds like the CBT you went through provided that for you as well, and I am glad that it did.

[PanicAttackGurl]

I did online CBT, 12 weeks without a therapist and then did it again for another 12 weeks showing my progress to a psychiatrist who highly approved of the online course. During the course of CBT, I have had many health issues and was concerned Dr Google was giving me HA. After a week of self talk learned in CBT, I was able to stop Dr Google from killing me off each and every day by being able to ignore Dr Google. I currently have many health issues and see Drs every other week. As for my Anxiety and Panic attacks, I haven't had one for many months and the last one was medicine induced. I do have some underlying anxiety, but its minor. This is a bonus to me as I am currently going through a divorce that is very ugly, while dealing with cancer, copd and valve prolapse with leakage in my heart.

Honestly, in my humble opinion, the CBT is what has helped me the most. There are occasional nights I listen to sleep hypnosis, but vary rarely nowadays.

I did try tapping at the request of a friend of a friend and laughed my way through it because I could not take it serious enough. I do not know if that works.

[Davit]

swgrl09

There is a thing called going in the back door. Since each neuron is connected to a thousand others there are multiple pathway possibilities. In fact important information uses pathways that are twinned. This shows on fMRI. The new function MRI. Twinning makes them twice as fast. It is possible to ride on the back of something related to bypass a blocked gate. I do this with names because when I lost my spleen I got damage from loss of blood. It is embarrassing not being able to remember a name.

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

PanicAttackGurl

That course is more than the watered down version that is often no more than exposure. I think though that 12 weeks is not enough time to do it justice but it is something you can do on your own.

Red said no one from here has logged in to do it. But they might still be able to read it, I'll check.

[Sam123]

Bump

[swgrl09]

So just to clarify, is this thread a discussion about what has worked and hasn't worked for people, or are you trying to design a model off our responses? I'm just a bit confused!

[Davit]

For me I have a five step program that works except I don't have OCD, HA or depression. Cognitive restructuring, the fourth step should work for them, but there may be different coping skills. I still think core beliefs, which are often passed over, play a role. Anxiety and panic are a function of the mind based on memory, no matter where that memory comes from. The question is where did that memory come from and why have you chosen to use it when their are other choices. Different therapies may work on this choice making.

But this is also to lump therapies in one place so that people know what is available besides CBT. Hence the title of the thread.

Secondly it is also to get some positive posts in among the, what word can I use, discouraging maybe. Those posts are real but do give a sense that there is no answer and no cure. I think there is and want to know what it is.

If we did put together something that worked from this it would be so different would anyone do it. With anxiety people are scared, scared of their medication side effects, scared of any change that will increase their anxiety, scared of any question that will get them thinking scary thoughts. I've seen that deer in the headlights look and been there. That, which way do I jump look. That just leave me alone, can I please just die feeling.
Positive posts would add some direction and show it doesn't have to be like that. Unfortunately those who get better tend to leave and get on with their life. I know three people who have done that since I have been here. How many before and how many in the future. Wanting them to stick around is greedy on my part because they could post positive. Still the object is to get better and live a normal life.

So if we and I say we, because this is about us, not me, could formulate something that worked without the need of a therapist what would we do with it. It would just be another self help program. To be catchy and sell (even if free) it would have to be catchy and offer people what they want, not what they need. I have a book, it isn't published and never will be but it is free. At 47 pages it is just an outline of things to look up on the internet to fill it out. And yes I will be adding the therapies people talk about to it this coming winter when I have time. Off the deep end exposure will not be in it but ERP will be. Writing a book without just babbling is a lot of work.

I have questioned why I'm still here putting in time I could use elsewhere. It is rather simple really, I will never have another panic attack but I am also stable enough to remember how bad they were without spinning out of control. Every day I think that there are people going through that yet. People with less than half a life that could have a whole one. But worse is the number who give up because nothing they know works, nothing they have been offered works. (for them anyway) It would be nice to have something that worked for everyone, but even if we did, what would we do with it.

So it goes back to input on therapies and positive experiences for the most parts butalso what hasn't worked. There may be an answer why.

[PanicAttackGurl]

So, I got a watered down version of CBT? I'd say that's the icing on the cake today, but I'd lick it off. I'm not concerned of it being a watered down version because, "hey, I'm getting by just fine. My question however remains, what would my progress be if I had a full CBT course instead of a watered down version? Would I be 100% instead of the 98% recovered I feel? Would the underlying minor anxiety be gone?

I'm ready to invest the time needed to do that. Also, once I'm 100% recovered, I won't bail out of here, but my posts will be much more positive and I might be able to help others.

[Davit]

No no, you didn't get a watered down version, the UK and most of the US, even Canada has a watered down version. Because of the time factor. That program is good, but there are things I would add still and things I would change based on new facts is all.
You know 12 weeks was not enough time so how can 8 weeks of therapy do anything.
To the best of my knowledge you are doing the whole thing. But the year isn't up yet is it and the added stress is going to add to the time factor. You will get that extra 2%. You are incentive. Many would love to be 98%. And they don't have the stress load you have.

---------- Post added at 14:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 ----------

Bump

[PanicAttackGurl]

I think I will add mindfulness to my CBT self therapy and see what happens. Unless I'm instructed to sit on floor cross legged and hum omm then I'm good to go.

[Davit]

I would, you might find you are already doing it or some of it. I was looking at something on top tips some one five starred and I can't see why.