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Thread: Nootropics/Smart Drugs

  1. #1
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    Nootropics/Smart Drugs

    Has anybody heard or have any knowledge of the kind of drugs described here : http://nootriment.com/. I know these products are a bit of a grey area as far as the law is concerned but it would appear that they are marketed as nutritional supplements.
    Any feedback appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Re: Nootropics/Smart Drugs

    Are there any particular ones you are looking at?

    Many of the mainstream supplement companies stock Nootropics too thesedays. So, given they are sold openly, the law won't be an issue. If the government change the law at any point then once you see the mainstream companies pull out of these products, you know there is a problem. Thats how it went for DHEA & GABA years ago.

    I think the government are in the process of introducing new legal highs laws soon so it will be worth watching to see if Nootropics take a hit. I seem to recall some talk about them somewhere but can't say for sure.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Nootropics/Smart Drugs

    Hi Terry, thanks for your reply.

    I am a complete novice when it comes to these new so-called smart drugs. I have heard that Phenibut is good for Social Anxiety and depression, likewise Piracetam, Aniracetam and all the other "racetams". I am currently taking 70mg of lisdexamfetamine a day for ADHD (which I'm not sure I have) and I am pretty sure these two drugs would be contraindicated as they both have stimulant properties (Lisdexamfetamine is a stimulant).

    I know I'm going to get short shrift from the doc but I hear good things about these drugs from people who appear to be taking them in a responsible way and not in any way abusing them for "kicks"

    The price is prohibitive but if they worked I wouldn't mind paying it so much. Lisdexamfetamine helps but not enough and I have tried methylphenidate and found it to be too harsh on the system.

    I guess the government will try and ban it they can't make any revenue from it. i am certainly of a mind to give one of these nootropics a try though.

  4. #4
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    Re: Nootropics/Smart Drugs

    Well, you learn something new everyday - yes I have taken Nootropics!

    I've taken caffeine! And I've taken L-theanine in sports supplements which would have been at low doses.

    Caffeine has its uses but in anxiety it can be a problem. I used to take guarana supplements in the mornings. They were goood for alertness but they could be an issue with anxiety. I think I recall green coffee bean being an alternative without the caffeine element but that might have been from an antioxidant angle so not a nootropic thing.

    Some people find L-theanine helpful, I've seen it mentioned on the GAD board before. Some people have it as a tea. Without checking, I seem to recall it feeding in somewhere to the glutamate system. They are starting to make antidepressants that take advantage of that system. L-theanine crosses the blood-brain barrier. Theanine does increase serotonin, GABA and dopamine so it may be helpful. I did take GABA years ago when I was lifting weights (before it was banned) and when you take that it does makke you feel quite good but beware that it can also make your face flush and give you some breathlessness but this only lasts a few minutes.

    I think theanine is pretty safe but check the dosages out. I recall it works well with caffeine so thats another element to check out. Its also everywhere so it will be cheap.

    Nicotine is a nootropic as well! So, I've tried that as an ex smoker and I would imagine many people have tried isoflavones!

    Lots of people take panax ginseng. I avoided that because I know it can cause headaches and the guy at the health food shop advised using Siberian ginseng instead. I used that for years and it was fine. I haven't used these things since having anxiety though as I have struggled working back through taking things as my anxiety latched onto supplementation as an issue. I would like to get back into some of these though such as the ginseng. Using the online interaction checkes like on Drugs.com or WebMD tend to be useful.

    So, they can't fully ban nootropics, only ones they find that could be dangerous. Since some of them have had some basic studies and there are some results stating some forms have a low potential for harm then they are going to be around for a long time I reckon.

    Somehow, I doubt a GP would have a clue about them. They rarely seem to understand vitamins & minerals let alone all this stuff! A pharmacist would be a better option.

    Just be careful with Ginkgo Biloba. That has a major interaction with SSRI/SNRI's. However, if you Google "NICE Gingko Biloba Camomile" you should find a link to the NICE review of using these two together as they have made a recommendation for further study in mild GAD. There should be some online studies you can then find. Since NICE said it could be a future treatment option, its worth a look.

    Are all racetams stimulants? If so, could you choose the most likely to fit for you and then try ones from the other catagories?
    Last edited by MyNameIsTerry; 12-06-15 at 08:36.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Nootropics/Smart Drugs

    I think the term is quite a general one and covers natural as well as synthetic drugs. As you mention caffeine, nicotine etc. I have tried ginko biloba and ginseng but found them completely ineffective (at least as far as affecting my mood but I believe they are good in promoting overall physical health). The same goes for amino acids, L-trytophan, L-tyrosine etc as well as 5-HTP and St Johns Wort. I envy the people who find these beneficial but they did nothing for me.

    I think the drugs I am interested in are of the more chemical types and many of the racetams appear to mimic both the effects of ADHD medication but also many anti-depressants and anxiolytics.

    What worries me is the lack of regulation and also impartial information. The NHS should test these things and see if they have any validity. What's to stop them?

    I am of a mind to try phenibut which I think may be quite similar to the GABA that you tried a few years ago but which is now banned. I am looking at the reviews on WebMD now. On Youtube it seems to be a very positive reaction to this drug and other racetams/nootropics/smart drugs, whatever you want to call them.

  6. #6
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    Re: Nootropics/Smart Drugs

    Have you considered lithium orotate or Rhodiola Rosea? They both seem to have a good evidence base behind them.

    I'd be wary of phenibut - I've heard of a few people who have found it comparable to benzodiazepines in terms of dependence/withdrawal. Also it seems to function well as an anxiolytic drug, but the jury is still out on its nootropic property.

    What dosage of L-Tyrosine did you take? You may need to take 4+ grammes to have notice any kind of effect on mood/cognition.

    NAC also seems to have potential to benefit mood positively.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Nootropics/Smart Drugs

    Emphyrio: I have some of the same concerns about Phenibut and other nootropics now that I have done a little more research. I think many people are looking at them as a kind of more socially acceptable legal high but I'm not looking to get any kind of buzz off them at all. I am not sure how much one becomes dependent on them but I do worry about developing a tolerance for them. That said, does it make them any more of a risk than the pills prescribed by a GP?

    I think i took as much as 10 grammes of L-tyrosine. One day I did notice a slight increase in energy but on subsequent occasions really no noticeable difference at all.

    I have Googled the other supplements you mentioned and I may well give them a go.

    I am presently investigating the health properties of kombucha after buying some from a farmer's market in Birmingham. It is basically fermented green tea. So far I can definitely recommend it if you have a hangover...it works!

  8. #8
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    Re: Nootropics/Smart Drugs

    Kombuchas healthy for various reasons and available online quite easily or you can brew your own at home via the continous brewing methods used for it.

    If you are moving that way, into things like probiotics, have a look at kefir.
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  9. #9
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    Re: Nootropics/Smart Drugs

    Yes, I am looking into kefir because I think the kombucha seemed to help. It is very expensive though so I haven't been able to take it on a long term basis. I plan to get a kit and make my own which would be much more cost effective,

    They say our second brain is in the gut so I think there may be some merit in all of this.

  10. #10
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    Re: Nootropics/Smart Drugs

    Continuous brewing is very cheap compared to buying bottled. Kombucha is more involved whereas kefir is pretty simple. Looking at kefir you would pay a fortune to replicate the levels of bacteria in supplement form.

    I'm gearing up to brew water kefir and find Happy Kombucha a really helpful company to ask about the finer details.
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    For free Mindfulness resources, please see this thread I have created to compile many sources together http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=168689

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