Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20

Thread: KLONOPIN OR BUSPAR ?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    493

    Re: KLONOPIN OR BUSPAR ?

    I pretty much agree with Panic Ian on all his medical knowledge but gotta disagree on this benzo rap coz it don't match my experience (Xanax and Klonopin)

    I don't know if it's permitted to copy foreigner talk here but I guess a few folk can read French. It's from revivre.com and the Mikhoul dude is French speaker version of Panic Ian.

    He say same as me almost, that benzos poop after about 30 days or the sedative effect no longer gets felt. That's dependence. The anti anxiety effect last another 30 days then yous gotta increase dose for same effect. Another 30 days etc then your addict


    Avec les benzos ça prend plus ou moins 30 jours de prise ne continu pour développer une dépendance sévère qui est souvent considéré aussi difficile à quitter que l’héroïne. De plus après 30-60 jours tu développes un effet de tolérance qui fait que le benzo en tant que tel n'a plus d'effet anxiolytique à moins d'augmenter la dose et qui elle même ne sera plus efficace après ~30 jours...

    En plus l'effet rebond des benzos lors du sevrage c'est d'augmenter l'anxiété ce qui rend encore plus difficile l'arrêt.

    La prise à long terme de benzos peut avoir beaucoup d'effets secondaires au niveau cognitif et moteur.
    Les benzos peuvent être utile mais à très court terme dans des circonstances précises, sur le long terme ils ne sont pas indiqués.

    En espérant que ça t'aide à mieux comprendre les benzos

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,790

    Re: KLONOPIN OR BUSPAR ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lebonvin View Post
    He say same as me almost, that benzos poop after about 30 days or the sedative effect no longer gets felt. That's dependence.
    No, it's tolerance. Tolerance can occur without dependence and dependence often occurs without tolerance.

    The anti anxiety effect last another 30 days then yous gotta increase dose for same effect. Another 30 days etc then your addict
    Which is not what the science says, see, for example, Tvet IF, 2013 which explored the issue in depth. Nor does it accord with what I have observed in some 20 years of participating in anxiety forums such as NMP.

    Probably the better guide to this is epileptics than those taking BZDs for anxiety as the disorders can muddy the waters. Epileptics share the same benzodiazepine/GABA receptor binding sites density deficits and sensitivity impairments as those with anxiety and are typically prescribed BZDs at higher doses and often for longer, yet they generally have fewer issues, both while taking these meds and in stopping them (although the greater expertise of neurologists may be a factor in the latter).

    There are very good reasons for not taking BZDs long term. Tolerance is one of the lesser ones, imo.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    493

    Re: KLONOPIN OR BUSPAR ?

    Hey Ian

    Do you ever taken benzos yourself?

    iI don't understand what's different between tolerance and dependence. Maybe the French speakers use them words in reverse. The guy got links to French medical stuff but no point in posting here

    I wish you was right but in 20 years of taking benzos on and off and getting addicted Xanax I gotta agree with the Frenchy.

    Or am I just different from most? Yes I am but when it come to benzos my experience is same as other guys and what docs and pharmies tell me.

    We agree that they makes yous more depressed. We agree that they stop brain growing new cells in camp hippopotamus.
    We agree they shouldn't get took long time.

    I wish there was some drug what worked permanent to keep everyone anxiety free

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    493

    Re: KLONOPIN OR BUSPAR ?

    Ain't this a bit like the climate change deniers science

    They says it's baloney but you can see different with yous own eyes.

    Greta got it right even though she ain't old enough to have read all the books

    If anti-anxiety effects of benzos kept on working we'd all be fine and dandy

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    493

    Re: KLONOPIN OR BUSPAR ?

    Since us folk here take benzos for anxiety the epileptic rap don't really help

    From yous own admission you was never a pharmie or a doc, just a regular guy who reads tonza stuff about medications to help folk like me on this forum. That's great and you help countless folk.

    I just think yous got this one wrong

    I once saw a physch who told me about an AD "It's workin but you don't noticed it," after about 3 months on the gear. Well sorry my man I said, I'm suffering here so I know it ain't workin even if your medical books say it is.

    So I'm still stuck on this benzo shit years later, I thought I'd come off ok till I got them hallucinations as you probably remember coz I asked yous advice and you said switch to a diazepam taper what I still intend to do.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,790

    Re: KLONOPIN OR BUSPAR ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lebonvin View Post
    Since us folk here take benzos for anxiety the epileptic rap don't really help
    Why not? They have the same benzodiazepine/GABA binding site deficits/sensitivity issues we do. It is the reason both cohorts respond so well to BZDs. The only significant difference is their experience is less likely to be influenced by psychological factors.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    493

    Re: KLONOPIN OR BUSPAR ?

    Hi Ian

    Point taken but I still ain't convinced. I wanna read more but that scientific stuff is too hard for me to take in

    Just to make sure we never misunderstood - I'm saying that an anti-anxiety dose of a benzo last max 2 months, but your saying it last longer than that?

    A question I was gonna ask you anyway so I'll ask here.

    If your starting an AD for the first time, how long should you wait before giving up on it if it don't work?

    If your switching from a SSRI to a new SSRI or in my case a SNRI to a new SNRI, how long?

    If changing class of AD, how long?

    Thanks

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,790

    Re: KLONOPIN OR BUSPAR ?

    Quote Originally Posted by lebonvin View Post
    Just to make sure we never misunderstood - I'm saying that an anti-anxiety dose of a benzo last max 2 months, but your saying it last longer than that?
    Yes. Years. Though it depends on the BZD. The short acting ones such as alprazolam (Xanax) tend to poop out much sooner than the longer acting diazepam, clonazepam and chlordiazepoxide.

    Something to contemplate. BZDs work because our brains have BZD binding sites. These haven't been in our brains since the dawn of humanity just waiting for us to develop the drugs. They are there because there are small amounts of benzodiazepine compounds in most of the things we eat, particularly diazepam and lorazepam and their respective metabolites, originating in plants and flowing up the food chain. My guess is that benzodiazepines are a plant poison to which animal life, Homo sapiens included, have become so adapted to that we can no longer function without them. If you could eat a natural BZD free diet you would die a pretty horrific, seizure racked death. Fortunately, natural BZDs are so ubiquitous that this is impossible.

    While the quantities we get from food are small, they are not insignificant. Natural BZD levels can reach pharmaceutical levels in patients with some liver diseases 1. So high in fact that medical intervention may be required 2. If tolerance was as big an issue as you believe then we would be having to constantly increase our dietary intake to maintain the status quo or succumb to terrible bouts of anxiety and convulsions.

    If your starting an AD for the first time, how long should you wait before giving up on it if it don't work?
    Well, you can't really claim an AD doesn't work until you've been on the highest recommended dose for 8-12 weeks as some people, e.g. me, only respond to near, at, or over the maximum, but that's a long wait. More practically if there are no hints of a positive response after 8-12 weeks at a more typical therapeutic dose for that med then the odds aren't good.

    If your switching from a SSRI to a new SSRI or in my case a SNRI to a new SNRI, how long?
    Assuming it is an overnight, or short cross-taper switch from the typical therapeutic dose, to the equivalent of the new one then 5-8 weeks. If it is stopping drug A before beginning drug B then it's effectively the same as starting from square one. The only time this is essential is when switching to/from a MAOI class AD, but most GPs and many psychiatrists, ime, insist on changing ADs that way, presumably because they don't know any better, through fear of serotonin syndrome, or simply a lack of confidence.

    If changing class of AD, how long?
    This is trickier because effective dose equivalents can be much less certain so more playing around with doses may be required, however, 5-8 weeks plus the adjustment time.



    References:

    [1]
    Baraldi M, Avallone R, Corsi L, et al (2000)
    Endogenous benzodiazepines.
    Therapie Jan-Feb;55(1):143-6 (Abstract)

    [2]
    Zeneroli ML, Venturini I, Stefanelli S, et al, (1997) Antibacterial activity of rifaximin reduces the levels of benzodiazepine-like compounds in patients with liver cirrhosis. Pharmacol Res , Jun;35(6):557-60 (Abstract)
    [Note: no benzodiazepine synthesizing gut flora has ever been isolated despite much searching and they almost certainly don't exist in humans, and rifaximin probably reduces BZD by improving liver function, not killing such flora as the authors propose]

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Posts
    493

    Re: KLONOPIN OR BUSPAR ?

    Hi Ian

    Thanks for yous long reply and for taking the time.

    Charlie

  10. #20

    Re: KLONOPIN OR BUSPAR ?

    The two main treatments for anxiety disorders are psychotherapy and medications and doctors are mostly prescribed theses drugs. It may take some trial and error to discover which medicines work best for you. But without doctors prescription, its leads to addiction. It has strong side effects and withdrawal symptoms.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Buspar...Klonopin....Zoloft
    By LadyBug in forum Clonazepam / Klonopin / Rivotril
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 22-11-11, 12:16
  2. Buspar
    By Nel in forum Buspirone / Buspar
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 30-12-06, 16:42
  3. Jitters from slowing down on Klonopin
    By Southern_Belle in forum Clonazepam / Klonopin / Rivotril
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-04-06, 17:10
  4. Anyone been on Klonopin?
    By ClemmonsHoo in forum Clonazepam / Klonopin / Rivotril
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 16-11-05, 17:12
  5. xanax after klonopin??? help!
    By elena in forum Clonazepam / Klonopin / Rivotril
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 19-09-05, 14:28

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •