The Government has admitted to releasing the death list of claimants.

[bernie1977]

Dizzy Dave we've had our disagreements in this thread but that was about my opinions on Corbyn not on the benefit issue. I do agree with you on this.

The Tories are persecuting the sick it's not disputable. Sign up to the benefits and work website and get their newsletter, it's very interesting and they currently have barristers fighting against the Work Capability Assessments as IDS is changing the goal posts again to get more people off ESA.

people who were given lifelong awards on DLA will now face a full assessment again when they're migrated to PIP. Figures are suggesting large numbers who get high rate mobility component will lose this award, to many this will mean losing a disability car. Now the press like everyone to think people on DLA don't work, this is not true. DLA is given for costs incurred for living with your disability. Losing disability cars will mean the end of freedom for a car gives for a lot of severely disabled people.

The worse thing IDS has in the pipelines is cutting and suspending some peoples awards of carers allowance. I think that's about £60 a week. Let the government care for these sick people then who need 24 hour care, I'm sure it'll cost them more than £60 a week. My friend had to close her business when her daughter, my god daughter, had a brain tumour. She got £60 a week carers allowance because she was unable to work due to how ill the little girl was. That's not even minimum wage when you work it out as an hourly rate. My poor god daughter died in May and her Mum got very ill with a stress related illness, she was refused ESA! Currently appealing but that takes ages. The system is wrong, it's not all down to the evil government. We have to look at people who abuse the system, when the public see this it causes outrage so that gives the government the green light to go in with the jack boots on, then genuine people are persecuted as a result. It's wrong and I don't know what the answer is.

The system as it stands is not sustainable. Certain cultures & religions that are growing in numbers in the country have remarkable high figures for claiming benefits from figures I have seen. This needs addressing and no I'm not been racist just stating facts.

Bearing in mind David Cameron had a son who was so sick I would expect more compassion but I suppose when you have so much money it doesn't effect your life in the same way from a practical point of view.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I never ever thought I would see such a quote which is inaccurate on a NMP thread. Arbeit Macht Frei was above every concentration camp and to compare what the Nazis did and what Iain Duncan Smith said is totally ubelievable and furthermore shouldn't even be discussed on here unless you want to heighten people's anxiety even further.

I agree with you. I find it very disrespectful when people make comparisons like this due to alarmist agendas. I had relatives, like many, who fought against real Nazis. We have people on this forum from many countries and not all of them are as tolerant towards their people as ours.

The OP doesn't seem to want to notice how MIND, a large charity who are also campaigning for reforms, see this data as inconclusive. For all anyone knows, these figures could be inline with expected death rates based on population growth and previous numbers of deaths on those older benefits.

It's about political agenda, not helping people. On a website full of people who very anxious about things, including those that are based on prophecy and coincidence, I think it is highly irresponsible to mislead them with alarmist stories hinting at their increased risks of what many of them fear and inciting paranoia over the people in charge.

[bernie1977]

[QUOTE=MyNameIsTerry;1470205]I agree with you. I find it very disrespectful when people make comparisons like this due to alarmist agendas. I had relatives, like many, who fought against real Nazis. We have people on this forum from many countries and not all of them are as tolerant towards their people as ours.


Well said

[Dizzy_Dave]

People are being starved in their own homes because they are being set up to fail then sanctioned (left with NO MONEY AND SUPPORT) - no concentration camp needed, this is 21st century version of Nazism - if you can't see the comparison, then you need educating, or you are you few just Tory/UKIP supporters who agrees with the systematic starvation of British people? Here's a few people who have died because of the direct action of the Tory welfare reforms R.I.P - http://blacktrianglecampaign.org/201...ber-21st-2014/

---------- Post added at 14:54 ---------- Previous post was at 14:43 ----------

Dizzy Dave we've had our disagreements in this thread but that was about my opinions on Corbyn not on the benefit issue. I do agree with you on this.

The Tories are persecuting the sick it's not disputable. Sign up to the benefits and work website and get their newsletter, it's very interesting and they currently have barristers fighting against the Work Capability Assessments as IDS is changing the goal posts again to get more people off ESA.

people who were given lifelong awards on DLA will now face a full assessment again when they're migrated to PIP. Figures are suggesting large numbers who get high rate mobility component will lose this award, to many this will mean losing a disability car. Now the press like everyone to think people on DLA don't work, this is not true. DLA is given for costs incurred for living with your disability. Losing disability cars will mean the end of freedom for a car gives for a lot of severely disabled people.

The worse thing IDS has in the pipelines is cutting and suspending some peoples awards of carers allowance. I think that's about £60 a week. Let the government care for these sick people then who need 24 hour care, I'm sure it'll cost them more than £60 a week. My friend had to close her business when her daughter, my god daughter, had a brain tumour. She got £60 a week carers allowance because she was unable to work due to how ill the little girl was. That's not even minimum wage when you work it out as an hourly rate. My poor god daughter died in May and her Mum got very ill with a stress related illness, she was refused ESA! Currently appealing but that takes ages. The system is wrong, it's not all down to the evil government. We have to look at people who abuse the system, when the public see this it causes outrage so that gives the government the green light to go in with the jack boots on, then genuine people are persecuted as a result. It's wrong and I don't know what the answer is.

The system as it stands is not sustainable. Certain cultures & religions that are growing in numbers in the country have remarkable high figures for claiming benefits from figures I have seen. This needs addressing and no I'm not been racist just stating facts.

Bearing in mind David Cameron had a son who was so sick I would expect more compassion but I suppose when you have so much money it doesn't effect your life in the same way from a practical point of view.

I am really sorry to hear about your God Daughter :( David Cameron was quoted to say "he will end this something for nothing culture" says the millionaire who claimed DLA, Child Benefit, and other benefits whilst living off his fathers tax avoided ill gotten inheritance - the man is a walking oxymoron, all the Tories are, but don't fall in to their trap and start turning on our own people, that's what they want, it's called 'Divide And Conquer'. Benefit fraud is at 0.7%, yes you heard me right, 0.7! Whilst they claim for second homes and rent out there homes for profit! You couldn't make it up. You are wrong about Corbyn, he cares, he rejected the 13 billion cuts coming our way whilst ALL the others let it go through, he wants equality and compassion, anyway, we won't agree on everything, but you have to see all this shit started going real bad in 2010 when the Tories got into power with the help of Clegg the turncoat. One death is one too many in my book, and it will continue unless we all join together to fight it.

[bernie1977]

I didn't say Corbyn was wrong with his opinions and policies on benefits, I said I didn't like him and would never vote for him as he supports terrorists (IRA, Hamas, Mahdi militia & more). There's video evidence to prove he called these people friends and freedom fighters. Some of these groups are openly racist and anti-Semites. Imagine if that was a Tory or UKIP MP who had such connections there would be uproar.

Everything you have said about the Tories and the policies on disabled claimants I agree with wholeheartedly. It's wicked and cruel and I have read many atrocious stories of unbelievable suffering and hardship brought on by the reforms.

I think we need to look at why the reforms were needed. We know the country was and is in financial dire straits so every area of spending needed to be looked at to make cuts. The right will always go for public spending & benefits first the left won't.

I think we need to get our economy on a more even keel. Funding on public services, schools, hospitals and policing needs to be increased not decreased. How can we keep letting our population grow and decrease public service spending at the same time. If we can't afford the public services we have now I say we let no more people into the country. Controversial opinion I know, but when your God daughter was refused funding for her one potential chance at life saving treatment and you see people coming into the country who have paid nothing in and getting free healthcare it irks. There were 215,000 EU health cards issued to Romanian & Bulgarian people when there are 85,000 in the country. They get treatment in Europe using the card and charge it to the NHS.

I feel heartfelt sorry for the Syrian asylum seekers and for what they are fleeing from and our part in that but I draw the line at the migrants. The majority of the people we are seeing arriving in Greece and Italy are migrants not asylum seekers. Our economy and infrastructure cannot afford to let untold numbers of migrants keep coming, we simply can't support it.

I know you don't agree but Corbyn would be the worst thing for the Labour Party in my opinion, he will make them unelectable. I say that as my opinion not from media manipulation. I'm not a Mail reader as you suggested! He's just too far left wing and a socialist to win the whole important middle ground voters. Labour lost the last election partly due to that so lurching even further towards the left is crazy. As I say these are just my opinions so it obviously doesn't make them fact. My MP Dan Jarvis, was asked to do a report on why Labour lost so many votes to UKIP and one of the conclusions was that Labour had gone to far to the left with Ed Milliband so Corbyn getting in will not win those people back it will only alienate even more.

[Dizzy_Dave]

I didn't say Corbyn was wrong with his opinions and policies on benefits, I said I didn't like him and would never vote for him as he supports terrorists (IRA, Hamas, Mahdi militia & more). There's video evidence to prove he called these people friends and freedom fighters. Some of these groups are openly racist and anti-Semites. Imagine if that was a Tory or UKIP MP who had such connections there would be uproar.

Everything you have said about the Tories and the policies on disabled claimants I agree with wholeheartedly. It's wicked and cruel and I have read many atrocious stories of unbelievable suffering and hardship brought on by the reforms.

I think we need to look at why the reforms were needed. We know the country was and is in financial dire straits so every area of spending needed to be looked at to make cuts. The right will always go for public spending & benefits first the left won't.

I think we need to get our economy on a more even keel. Funding on public services, schools, hospitals and policing needs to be increased not decreased. How can we keep letting our population grow and decrease public service spending at the same time. If we can't afford the public services we have now I say we let no more people into the country. Controversial opinion I know, but when your God daughter was refused funding for her one potential chance at life saving treatment and you see people coming into the country who have paid nothing in and getting free healthcare it irks. There were 215,000 EU health cards issued to Romanian & Bulgarian people when there are 85,000 in the country. They get treatment in Europe using the card and charge it to the NHS.

I feel heartfelt sorry for the Syrian asylum seekers and for what they are fleeing from and our part in that but I draw the line at the migrants. The majority of the people we are seeing arriving in Greece and Italy are migrants not asylum seekers. Our economy and infrastructure cannot afford to let untold numbers of migrants keep coming, we simply can't support it.

I know you don't agree but Corbyn would be the worst thing for the Labour Party in my opinion, he will make them unelectable. I say that as my opinion not from media manipulation. I'm not a Mail reader as you suggested! He's just too far left wing and a socialist to win the whole important middle ground voters. Labour lost the last election partly due to that so lurching even further towards the left is crazy. As I say these are just my opinions so it obviously doesn't make them fact. My MP Dan Jarvis, was asked to do a report on why Labour lost so many votes to UKIP and one of the conclusions was that Labour had gone to far to the left with Ed Milliband so Corbyn getting in will not win those people back it will only alienate even more.

One thing is for sure, it's going to be an interesting Saturday to see who the leader is! I agree with you on the immigration - I would say a majority are economic migrants, not refugees - I looked at the people who were filmed coming through the control centres, most were single males in the 18-30 age group with no families. The EU health card is a bad idea, if you don't live here you shouldn't be entitled to any benefits, and that includes white English people living in Europe too. As far as border control, yeah we need it, badly in fact. We are not even doing health/criminal record checks for people coming here, that's total madness IMHO.
You might be pleasantly surprised by Corbyns policies, they are very fair and do make sure we are looked after (the NHS is properly funded with no privatisation at all) that would have covered your relative. I don't agree with everything he says, but a majority of it I do. As far Corbyn is friends with terrorists, that's just a media slur, he has been taken out of context, he believes you need to sit down to sort out conflicts, not kill each other to point of no return, that's a very mature attitude. Here's one clip where Corbyn has been misquoted and he explains what he mean't when he said 'friends' (it was a collective term). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOZZF5XCDBM

[bernie1977]

Yes you're right the majority are single young men. Imagine if all the young men had left when we had World Wars One & Two, where would we be now. If they're coming from such dangerous places why leave the women and children, so it's obviously not the case for all.

It is madness letting people in with no checks. A girl I went to school was murdered by a Pakistani who had seriously assaulted and attacked a 10 year old girl before he came here. Within a year he committed the murder.

I just don't believe Corbyn can win an election I'm afraid, no matter how nastier the Tories get I think he's too left wing to win the swing votes. 4 million voted for UKIP last time and I think that figure will increase. I know you won't agree mate but we all have different opinions and must respect each other's. Life would be boring if we were all the same

[Dizzy_Dave]

Yes you're right the majority are single young men. Imagine if all the young men had left when we had World Wars One & Two, where would we be now. If they're coming from such dangerous places why leave the women and children, so it's obviously not the case for all.

It is madness letting people in with no checks. A girl I went to school was murdered by a Pakistani who had seriously assaulted and attacked a 10 year old girl before he came here. Within a year he committed the murder.

I just don't believe Corbyn can win an election I'm afraid, no matter how nastier the Tories get I think he's too left wing to win the swing votes. 4 million voted for UKIP last time and I think that figure will increase. I know you won't agree mate but we all have different opinions and must respect each other's. Life would be boring if we were all the same

Even though I don't support UKIP they were robbed at the last election - over 3 million votes and one seat in Westminster....I voted to change the voting method but unfortunately it was not to be.

[bernie1977]

I voted for the change in voting method, unfortunately it was a very low turn out.

Just checked the voting figures UKIP got 3.9 million votes and only one seat. The Greens also got one seat with just over a million votes. Both Labour & Conservatives would have got fewer seats with the proportional voting system. The SNP would have lost half of the seats they won, that surprised me. In the commons UKIP would've had 83 seats.

First past the post will keep the Tories in power forthe foreseeable future now the SNP have come to force IMHO. The immigration issue will take more votes away from Labour especially if they insist on lurching further to the left

[MyNameIsTerry]

How about having some respect for people who have suffered under real tyranny? We are not at war and you enjoy a freedom in ever saying what you have unlike those people you judge for living near the camps who lived in fear... They policed and killed their own people too if they disagreed.

Suggesting anyone with a differing opinion is part of what you as systematic murder just shows your intolerant attitude. Any deaths are wrong and should be investigated but making such defamatory remarks just because someone challenges your use of alarmist language hardly shows you as someone who wants to help to me.

Oh, and what about those spurious figures and charities agreeing they are meaningless in their current form?

I notice no one is looking beyond the 10k too which further makes me believe no one sees the larger figure as connected to reforms or relevant.

Short memory too over ATOS. Who was in power?