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Thread: A fire breathing dragon in my garage.

  1. #1
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    Mar 2015
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    A fire breathing dragon in my garage.

    Some of you might be familiar with this excerpt from a fantastic book called "a demon haunted world" by late scientist Carl Sagan. In this excerpt, Sagan provides a scenario and shows just how far people can take a claim and make it seem real. Sagan shows how to properly question such scenarios using simple logic. I feel there's a message within this excerpt that could assist some Health Anxiety sufferers by encouraging them to appeal to their logical side. There is a point to this, honestly;



    "A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage" Suppose (I'm following a group therapy approach by the psychologist Richard Franklin[3]) I seriously make such an assertion to you. Surely you'd want to check it out, see for yourself. There have been innumerable stories of dragons over the centuries, but no real evidence. What an opportunity!

    "Show me," you say. I lead you to my garage. You look inside and see a ladder, empty paint cans, an old tricycle--but no dragon.

    "Where's the dragon?" you ask.

    "Oh, she's right here," I reply, waving vaguely. "I neglected to mention that she's an invisible dragon."

    You propose spreading flour on the floor of the garage to capture the dragon's footprints.

    "Good idea," I say, "but this dragon floats in the air."

    Then you'll use an infrared sensor to detect the invisible fire.

    "Good idea, but the invisible fire is also heatless."

    You'll spray-paint the dragon and make her visible.

    "Good idea, but she's an incorporeal dragon and the paint won't stick." And so on. I counter every physical test you propose with a special explanation of why it won't work.

    Now, what's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all?



    Now, my point is thus:

    A lot of people on these forums use this type of warped logic and special plead when talking of perceived illness. This is not a criticism of anyone, merely an observation of how anxiety makes some people behave.

    We see, for instance, a poster who is convinced the lump she has found is cancer. As observers, our initial question is "what makes you think you have cancer?" Of course, the poster will report they have a lump.

    You'll ask if it's been checked by a doctor. "Yes it has, and they say it's fine."

    Well there you go then. "But what if they're wrong."

    That's very rare. Does it move? "Yes it does."

    Cancerous tumours don't move. "I know, but what if this is a tumour that does move?"

    Is it growing? "No, but what if it's a slow growing tumour?"

    Are you ill or in pain? "No, but some cancers aren't painful and don't make you ill"

    Are you losing weight? "No, but I dont excersise and have a big appetite"

    And so on.

    The point is the same. Sagans dragon existed only in make believe, and he had to put forth a series of special arguments in order to justify his hypotheses. In his conclusion, what is the difference between an invisible floating dragon that breathes heatless Fire, and one that doesn't actually exist?

    In the HA sufferers scenario, it's much the same. What's the difference between a cancerous tumour that doesn't grow, doesn't make you ill, doesn't hurt or make you lose weight, and a cancer that simply doesn't exist? Evidence always becomes flimsier the more special arguments you need to put forth in which to justify something's existence, with health anxiety it is no different.

    I realise this is a bit long winded but I do hope some people will see the point I'm trying to make, and hopefully it can make some others recognise this pattern within themselves.

    God knows, we see a lot of bloody dragons around here.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Re: A fire breathing dragon in my garage.

    Great post! Ironically or not, my self and several others refer to anxiety as a "dragon".

    Positive thoughts
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    "Eat. Drink. Enjoy the work you do. Be thankful for the blessings God gives you in this life. Live, love and seek out the things that bring your heart joy. The rest is meaningless... Like chasing the wind." King Solomon

    The best help is the help you give yourself! http://cbt4panic.org/

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Re: A fire breathing dragon in my garage.

    Had too read it a couple of times to make sure I understood it, really great post. I do see this pattern in me and really want to change. Thanks .

  4. #4
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    Re: A fire breathing dragon in my garage.

    Great post!

  5. #5
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    Re: A fire breathing dragon in my garage.

    Gary, I'm so disappointed. I clicked on this thread expecting a Les Dawson mother in law joke

    It's a very good example of the mindset. I think this is why therapists are careful to spin the situation back around so we don't have the chance to create the obvious 'But...'
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  6. #6
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    Re: A fire breathing dragon in my garage.

    I realise that when it comes to anxiety issues, logic has all but jumped out of the window, so to speak. I just want to get people thinking, really thinking. Somewhere deep down inside, most HA sufferers know they're being irrational and illogical, but it's about trying to get that person to question their own thoughts and recognise the irrational and illogical methods they use in order to draw these conclusions.

    I'd hope that when people start to recognise these illogical thought patterns, it's then about talking themselves down from them.

  7. #7
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    Re: A fire breathing dragon in my garage.

    Reassurance-seeking is a known compulsion in OCD and when I was reading about some ways to tackle it I can remember one where you don't engage the person about their worries but distract them by changing the subject to attempt to shift their focus away from the immediate problem.

    I could see that being useful although I suspect it could also be tricky as it could be seen as ignoring them. It makes sense though because surely this is a key strategy to a therapist since they cannot talk about what the person with HA wants to rule out anyway?

    Also, at the charity I used to attend they had a much stricter set of rules than this place but to fair, there are 2 coordinators in each meeting. They had rules that prevented the level of detail discussed on here about medical matters and they were very tight on discussing meds. This meant that they also had to understand how to pull the focus away from the detail that shouldn't be discussed and they were all ex or current sufferers who had just attended an NVQ to host the meetings.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Re: A fire breathing dragon in my garage.

    Spot on analogy! Oh, how I'd like to slain my dragon...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    Re: A fire breathing dragon in my garage.

    I think that this thread along with Artist12's success should be included in Elen's HA "compendium"?

  10. #10
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    Re: A fire breathing dragon in my garage.

    Take it this post is about me?

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