Top Trump: A Poem

[Noivous]

The Trump Crime Family:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN25G1YU

Reuters are you kidding me...can you get any more hard left publication? The answer would be no.

[Gary A]

Ah, so once again when people are violent and aggressive in the name of BLM or ANTIFI, those people are “impersonating” them, but when it’s some warped racist idiot acting out his moronic behaviour at a rally defending a statue that puts everyone at that rally in the same category?

Sorry, but you can’t have it both ways. I’m not sure that taking down a statue does anything at all, as you say, it doesn’t erase history and honestly, why try? History is something that can’t be denied. For me, I would use those statues as a reminder to never go back to what we were and also a reminder of progress made. Not that anyone seems to want to say progress has been made, it seems to be more appealing to insinuate that we live in a fundamentally racist society, which is just nonsense in my view.

If Trump is fanning the flames of hatred, would you also say that Biden is doing the same by blatantly and evidently lying about Trump not condemning white supremacy? I’d call that race baiting, frankly, and it looks an awful lot like race baiting for votes, which is a cheap, dirty tactic.

It’s not about “whataboutism”, it’s about pointing out hypocrisy. You can’t apply rules to the side you dislike and not apply them to the side you do. It’s about applying your own standards to yourself.

I’m not having a great day to be honest, I’ve been given a positive for Covid and I feel like my heads on fire, but apart from that I’m great. Lol. Oh, and thank you too for being civil, it’s good to have that type of debate.

[Noivous]

Not to sound rude, but I'm guessing you didn't read my entire comment, but I do apologise I should have been a bit more clearer in my comment, as I was being sarcastic. As I also said that I was shocked he has to be forced to condemn any extreme right-wing groups. Plus it took him a good few days to come up with anything after calling them "very fine people" and not to mention it clearly wasn't written by him, as he done his usual "I don't care" monotone teleprompter response. Also I'm not painting anyone with the same brush, people can support whoever they want, but don't be surprised if there are others that have differing opinions.

Indeed Trump did say "peaceful protests are ok", but then again he did gas and send armed forces after those very same people and as the saying goes "actions speak louder than words".

Hold your horses there cowboy, so the statues of traitors that fought to keep slavery alive and those of slave owners weren't racist white supremacists? Sure a person might not necessarily be a racist if they defend keeping those statues around, but it does show a lot about their character, as it's not like they would be erased from all history books and the entirety of the internet. Now now Gary, what about that double standard, thought you too would have looked up the list of monuments and statues removed (link below) and you can see for yourself how many of them were for the confederacy etc. and slave owners compared to ones of that weren't.

Do I agree with the rioting and looting? Absolutely not. Did Trump help build up the tension by sending armed forced against peaceful protestors, which angered the masses? 1000% yes. It is interesting to see that you glossed over the fact that too many of these riots were instigated by alt-right groups that infiltrated the protests, unless you were unaware.

PS: ANTIFA (aka Anti-Fascist) isn't a group and never has been, no matter how anyone tries to dress it up or tries to impersonate people pretending to belong to such a "group". It's a mentality for anyone that strongly disagrees with fascism and it's ideals/methods. However Black Lives Matter is a group and as you said yourself a majority of them are peaceful, but that's not to say that there aren't other groups that have been violent or calling others to do violent acts (which BLM instantly condemned by the way).

Genuinely do hope you are having a fantastic day and I do appreciate you at least trying to be civil. Although I would appreciate a little less "whataboutism", but I guess I did say a little too much to cover in a comment lol sorry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...Floyd_protests

Give me an effing break! The only reason the "moderator" (left winger Chris Wallace) asked the question was to get the words Trump and white supremacist in the same sentence. Next you'll be telling me Trump colluded with the Russkies to win the election...oh I mean the Ukraine. When it's clear it was Hillary who was in bed with the Russians. What makes more sense capitalist Trump being in bed with the left or the left (Hillary/Biden) being in bed with the left?

It boggles the mind...the KKK was once the militant arm of the Democrat party and now it's BLM...think about that...that's what I call pure evil. But I'll give you this...both those militant arms used masks...cowards always do.

[Noivous]

BTW it's love of the President and the country driving the right to the polls it's hatred driving the left to the polls. Hopefully love will win out.

[Gary A]

Noivous may be very pointed in a lot of what he says but I have to agree with a lot of it. The tactics from the dems are almost completely about labelling people racist. I’ve never known a nation, almost overnight, to become so utterly obsessed with racism and trying to attach the label to people.

It almost always seems to be in the lead up to an election. Wonder why that is.

[Noivous]

Hi Gary,
I could not have put it better. You're an honest man. A very good friend of mine said something that really struck me. He enthusiastically voted for Obama in 08. He said to me the other day I'll never vote for another black person again. My chin hit the floor. He said any time he leveled a valid criticism at Obama or his policies he was castigated as a racist. He said to me, and that ain't ever going to happen again. This is a liberal urbanite I'm talking about.

You're right about your assessment of the racism charge. The left has weaponized it to the point of rendering it meaningless.

I wish more people recognized that as you do.

[Gary A]

Hi Gary,
I could not have put it better. You're an honest man. A very good friend of mine said something that really struck me. He enthusiastically voted for Obama in 08. He said to me the other day I'll never vote for another black person again. My chin hit the floor. He said any time he leveled a valid criticism at Obama or his policies he was castigated as a racist. He said to me, and that ain't ever going to happen again. This is a liberal urbanite I'm talking about.

You're right about your assessment of the racism charge. The left has weaponized it to the point of rendering it meaningless.

I wish more people recognized that as you do.

I don’t really engage in US political discussion, largely due to being rather ill informed on the whole topic, but I’ve decided on the lead up to this election to put the hours into looking at both sides of the debate.

Honestly, every time I’ve seen a democrat talking about this they bring up racism. They’re utterly obsessed by it. I watched Biden being interviewed by Cardi B and genuinely thought it was some sketch for a comedy programme or something. This woman has confessed to drugging men and robbing them and now we’re all supposed to agree with her version of morality?

I’m not a Trump fan, not by a long stretch, but at least he gets to talking about actual politics rather than going around desperately trying to cry racism at the first person who doesn’t agree with him.

[pray4me]

Neither Trump nor Biden has played by the book in their respective campaigns. They are both politicians and they’re doing what politicians do i.e. pander to public sentiment. If they played ‘good’ then they wouldn’t be the two candidates contesting the election. Righteousness has never been a critical requirement for political survival, in fact quite the opposite.
I feel like Joe Biden is being quite astute is keeping his overall campaign message positive and letting the Lincoln Project and never Trump Republicans do all the dirty work for him. Politics indeed makes strange bedfellows!
Re: Trump’s racism, his on again off again equation with White supremacists is only part of it. He also denies institutional racism and often panders to eugenicist policies. The evidence is rife in his campaign rallies. Moreover, his racism is only part of the reason why many Americans are not voting for him. He had four years and he blew it. He has failed this country in many ways and continues to jeopardize our strongest democratic institutions. Most importantly, as Gary noted, he DOES NOT heed expert advice.
And finally, many of us choosing Biden are doing so not because we hate Trump but because we think he’s incompetent and mind-numbingly ignorant. On balance, for many Americans this is a choice b/w two inadequate candidates. And some of us are choosing to go with the one who is more likely to listen to experts and avoids daily twitter rants.
Like Noivus, I too hope that love trumps (pun intended) hate. However I do not equate loving your country with loving a politician. Although I voted for Biden, I do not love him and will continue to criticize him and hold him accountable if/when (I hope!) he gets elected. Elected officials are public servants – they are meant to be held accountable. They aren’t Gods, meant to be idolized nor are they Labrador puppies meant to be liked/loved. No offense to Labrador puppies. They are freaking adorable, but I wouldn’t elect one to lead my country.

[MrLondon86]

Ah, so once again when people are violent and aggressive in the name of BLM or ANTIFI, those people are “impersonating” them, but when it’s some warped racist idiot acting out his moronic behaviour at a rally defending a statue that puts everyone at that rally in the same category?

Sorry, but you can’t have it both ways. I’m not sure that taking down a statue does anything at all, as you say, it doesn’t erase history and honestly, why try? History is something that can’t be denied. For me, I would use those statues as a reminder to never go back to what we were and also a reminder of progress made. Not that anyone seems to want to say progress has been made, it seems to be more appealing to insinuate that we live in a fundamentally racist society, which is just nonsense in my view.

If Trump is fanning the flames of hatred, would you also say that Biden is doing the same by blatantly and evidently lying about Trump not condemning white supremacy? I’d call that race baiting, frankly, and it looks an awful lot like race baiting for votes, which is a cheap, dirty tactic.

It’s not about “whataboutism”, it’s about pointing out hypocrisy. You can’t apply rules to the side you dislike and not apply them to the side you do. It’s about applying your own standards to yourself.

I’m not having a great day to be honest, I’ve been given a positive for Covid and I feel like my heads on fire, but apart from that I’m great. Lol. Oh, and thank you too for being civil, it’s good to have that type of debate.

It might not be the best idea to only follow Fascist Propaganda Network, sorry I mean Fox News lol. You might have heard of groups like Boogaloo etc. that have been caught by authorities for infiltrating and inciting violence in peaceful protests, however you are semi-correct it doesn't automatically label every right-winger a racist. It does show, I've so far condemned any and all violence by any left-winger, as well as the fact it doesn't give a free pass for anything else, but yet to hear a single bad word about these alt-right extremist groups, but not surprised I would be ashamed of them too and try to blame somebody else. The fact that only a few conservatives stand up or say anything against it all speaks a lot about combating racism and spits in the face of all the progress the world has made, as saying just standing idly by could easily be considered just as bad as the racist acts themselves. Heck if any democrat, liberal, left-winger etc. were as openly racist, everyone (including their own) would denounce and condemn them, that's not to say there aren't any.

Only in America and Britain would we have statues of traitors and racists who fought for slavery. Here in the UK, William Wilberforce (one of the main Politian's to fight against slavery in the UK) gets a statue tucked away in some garden and a monument in Hull, but Oliver Cromwell gets a statue in the capital (not saying Cromwell was absolutely evil or that it was bad that he gave power to the government).

You are right Biden really should have mentioned Trump's pathetic and late teleprompter response to white supremist groups, but it doesn't excuse the fact that he once again didn't on live tv when it's such an easy sentence.

Yes it's totally about "whataboutism", it is a very poor defence if you say "but these people done this", however is someone possibly lying as bad as inciting hatred and violence?. Plus does he even mean any of these teleprompter responses and moments away from his base where he weakly condemns his base? Highly doubtful when he can't condemn them on live-tv, while his opponent can condemn his own. If someone stole your wallet and their defence was "well Mr Bob once used bad language and upset me" would you instantly forgive that person and let them have your wallet and all its contents? Me thinks not. Plus it leads to nothing, but walking around in circles all day and nothing constructive happening.

I don't see how I've not been applying the same rules to myself, as I previously stated I am totally against all forms of violence no matter what their political alignment is or who they worship etc.

OMG I'm genuinely so terribly sorry to hear about you getting Covid, hope it's not too serious and that you recover real soon and have no lasting ill effects. Who else will I have such a nice and civil debate Maybe even try to come to one of the "film nights" on here when you fully recover, would be awesome to hear about any movies/actors/actresses you like etc.

[MrLondon86]

Neither Trump nor Biden has played by the book in their respective campaigns. They are both politicians and they’re doing what politicians do i.e. pander to public sentiment. If they played ‘good’ then they wouldn’t be the two candidates contesting the election. Righteousness has never been a critical requirement for political survival, in fact quite the opposite.
I feel like Joe Biden is being quite astute is keeping his overall campaign message positive and letting the Lincoln Project and never Trump Republicans do all the dirty work for him. Politics indeed makes strange bedfellows!
Re: Trump’s racism, his on again off again equation with White supremacists is only part of it. He also denies institutional racism and often panders to eugenicist policies. The evidence is rife in his campaign rallies. Moreover, his racism is only part of the reason why many Americans are not voting for him. He had four years and he blew it. He has failed this country in many ways and continues to jeopardize our strongest democratic institutions. Most importantly, as Gary noted, he DOES NOT heed expert advice.
And finally, many of us choosing Biden are doing so not because we hate Trump but because we think he’s incompetent and mind-numbingly ignorant. On balance, for many Americans this is a choice b/w two inadequate candidates. And some of us are choosing to go with the one who is more likely to listen to experts and avoids daily twitter rants.
Like Noivus, I too hope that love trumps (pun intended) hate. However I do not equate loving your country with loving a politician. Although I voted for Biden, I do not love him and will continue to criticize him and hold him accountable if/when (I hope!) he gets elected. Elected officials are public servants – they are meant to be held accountable. They aren’t Gods, meant to be idolized nor are they Labrador puppies meant to be liked/loved. No offense to Labrador puppies. They are freaking adorable, but I wouldn’t elect one to lead my country.

Absolutely fantastically said, you said it "billions and billions" times better than I ever could lol (sorry had to) and you are spot on the button that every politian should be held accountable especially since we are paying them to run most things that impact our daily lives, whether you voted for them or not. I wouldn't expect anything more or less than to be critical even to the person you voted for, as history has taught us that even the most empowering words could lead to very dark times.

However as a counter-argument to your final point, I'd vote for a Labrador puppy any day, they are much more nicer to listen to and look at than any politian and heck they wouldn't mess up the planet so much lol.