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Thread: the EU & the UK

  1. #1461
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Pain View Post
    Brexit Day + 104


    Mez... Mr Johnson may well have policies but doesn't make too much fuss in mentioning them. Now which other starred politician do we know who rose to the top of the pile and stayed there using this strategy? Oh I remember, it was none other than Teflon Tony Blair!

    Anyway, government no longer needs policies. I mean, if it had a manifesto full of policies we ordinary folks might reasonably expect them to be fulfilled, perhaps even just the most important of them. And that certainly isn't the case these days, is it?

    PS: "Boris is the worst example..." Really?
    Im going to go against the grain here and defend Tony Blair. He and New Labour did have policies and some very good ones like the Working wage directive. I was with Blair until the Iraq debacle. Hes 50 times the Statesman that Boris isn't.
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  2. #1462
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    The polls tracker on Wiki:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio..._election#2019



    Some obvious trends in here:

    - rise of TBP taking votes from the Tories (and Labour )
    - the LibDems (and Greens) taking Labour votes but only closer to the EU elections as prior they were pretty dead in the water.
    - the "Boris Bounce" as Tony mentioned on the headlines thread.
    - Labour are ahead a lot more than the media seen to like saying (or certain quarters anyway, those bashing Corbyn policies (whatever they are) and crowing about the LibDems being future contenders, for example)
    - the downward spiral of May's leadership that sunk after 31st March as they were winning more polls before then.

    Coalition governments and confidence deals here we come.

    Corbyn has finally given in to wanting a second referendum but only on the Tory deal or No Deal and with Remain on the ticket. Although he still waffles on about a GE and getting a Labour deal. Also interesting that they have said if the Labour deal turns out to be poor they will campaign against their own deal to back Remain! That should please the EU, they can just say no to everything.
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  3. #1463
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    I hadn't come across this Poll tracker before, its a great resource

    Its odd that some Polls seem completely out of whack with the general results
    Last edited by mezzaninedoor; 12-07-19 at 19:32. Reason: wanted to add 2nd line
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  4. #1464
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by mezzaninedoor View Post
    I hadn't come across this Poll tracker before, its a great resource

    Its odd that some Polls seem completely out of whack with the general results
    Wiki has them for the EU elections which was where I was mainly looking before. They are very useful. I often see threads on politics boards citing polls yet they aren't even the latest (even though the media are saying they are) or that they are inline with the trend of the others.

    These trackers are very useful because they cut out the spin of the media. When some are telling us Labour are sunk and the Lib Dems are a real contender you can see from these trends Labour are in a better place. It does backup the losses from Tory to TBP but not so much the Labour/Lib Dem/Green issue as they fluctuate, although the closer the EU elections that started to change.

    If Labour stick to a clear position they could change that back with the Lib Dems. There is some talk they can't win back losses to the TBP (which I don't believe as Labour voters are only going there out of frustration as they did UKIP) so should let their northern heartlands be lost and go full Remain. I'm not so sure about that strategy, it relies on the old attitudes towards Tories up here. The Tories have been gaining ground because of Corbyn alone before the referendum and this seems to have been forgotten.

    It might depend on the pacts (see Heidi Allen's latest campaign, whatever the name of her grouping is this week ). And I hate these step aside pacts as I find them undemocratic. But if Labour, Lib Dem, Plaid and Green (SNP say they won't which is understandable and they don't need to as they can make themselves into a coalition this route anyway) have a pact to step aside in seats so they can come up with a coalition (I can't see Labour stepping aside for the Lib Dems if they can win seats) will the Tories and TBP do the same? Under Boris & Hunt that might be possible?
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  5. #1465
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Brexit Day + 107

    When are we going to be told stuff about Brexit that we haven’t already worked out for ourselves?

    ‘Philip Hammond has warned the UK will not be able to control key elements of a no-deal Brexit. The chancellor told BBC Panorama that if the UK leaves without a deal, then the EU will control many of the levers - including what happens at the French port of Calais.’ (via the BBC).

    Wow, what a marvellous piece of insightful deduction from a Government minister! Who’d have thought we’d have no say in how the countries in the EU conduct their business after we’ve left? In fact, we’ll have just marginally less say than we have now as current members….

    PS: At first glance I thought the article writer had misspelt ‘leavers’, which would have made for much more interesting, sinister, reading:

    ‘Shock story – Brexit supporters are to be rounded-up and transported to transit camps in France.’

    I need to be careful here – this actually sounds like a headline!

  6. #1466
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Pain, don't forget that the UK is worth a hell of a lot of money to the EU countries with trade. That's probably why a deal hasn't been compromised and the UK leaving could put some of the countries in to a financial crisis if we choose not to trade with them. But as it stands at the moment the shots are being called by them and the UK really has no freedom of choice, not forgetting that our own country has suffered with cuts because of lack of funds, i. e. NHS, Police Force, schooling, care for the elderly, disabled and not forgetting mental health.
    So much money and time is wasted abroad while a stroke victim waits for someone to take them to the toilet or someone with mental health considers taking their life because there is no one to help or the family have to go without because of the horrendous prices on food which has been imported and price tagged to finance their own
    country.
    Our country is in a crisis in many sectors with hospitals unfit for purpose and public transport cuts, street retail dying by the hour, pub closures, hospital closures, our local farmers priced out of the picture, the housing market, homecare, an ever-growing population and support for people that no other county will entertain.
    This country is going down and down and will do until it has change!

  7. #1467
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Carnation View Post
    ...This country is going down and down and will do until it has change!
    Agreed! (just as long as it's change for the better...).

  8. #1468
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Pain View Post
    Brexit Day + 108

    If ever there were living proof that the excesses of capitalism can be a very bad thing in the wrong hands, Gina Miller
    must be it.

    Gina Miller just doesnt want Boris Johnson prorouging Parliament, in fact there are many people who don't want Boris doing that. John Major gave a very impassioned interview late on the BBC News channel the other day
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  9. #1469
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    I've heard Boris is going to revoke A50 and prorogue Parliament to prevent them doing anything. I trust Miller (and her shady backers) will threaten legal action I thought Bercow had already prevented it anyway?
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  10. #1470
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Brexit Day + 109

    Quote Originally Posted by mezzaninedoor View Post
    Gina Miller just doesnt want Boris Johnson prorouging Parliament, in fact there are many people who don't want Boris doing that.
    Mez... you can't put "just" in that sentence - it trivialises a huge abuse of the power money can buy... When the wealthy can buy access to 'legal' remedies that ordinary folks can't afford to challenge, it's grossly unfair (look at the notorious 'gagging' orders and certain injunctions etcetera). Stopping Brexit using the courts at any cost is an option only open to those with enough money and is the opposite of democracy and fair play.
    Last edited by Pain; 16-07-19 at 19:05. Reason: A clearer explanation

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