the EU & the UK

[MyNameIsTerry]

In my opinion, for what it's worth.
We need to come out of the EU with a 'no deal', then trading can be 'dealt with' on terms that suit the UK and not necessarily with just, (sorry that word again Pain) the European countries anyway.
You need to wipe the slate clean and start afresh as with anything you do if you are not happy.
Although personally, I would like to see more UK produce, but understandably, that's not going to happen overnight.
It's the headlock and vulnerability of being in the EU which needs to be eliminated, let alone the obligatory rules concerning other matters.
And I do have to say watching Pain clocking up the Brexit+ days, I'm still annoyed that the original voting result was not carried out by Parliament and wonder if this will affect any future referendums because as it stands, it's not worth the paper it's written on.
Mezz, none of my brexit colleagues have changed their minds. Why would they? It's not a decision taken out of the blue. Feelings and opinions build up over a period of time and you won't change your views because something hasn't been carried out and say, "oh go on then, we'll stay".
As far as I know personally, all the remainers still want to stay and the brexiteers still want out!

It is quite funny to see the Tesco types complaining about Brexit yet the ALDI/LIDLs are actively advertising their increased use of home grown products.

In theory we should be able to say it's out of everything from x date and new agreements from there but it's the constant frustration of process that is holding it back more than the differing views in my opinion. They still cling onto staying in and revoking. If the impact on trade was very low I suspect the other party would have long given us the sack...

[MyNameIsTerry]

Mez… you’re right, ‘No Deal’ isn’t in the UK’s best interest, but neither is being under the EU’s cosh. If the EU would engage in genuine negotiations, we could come to a mutually beneficial arrangement – there are lots of options hiding behind that ‘If’… see Terry’s synopsis. The great big sticking point is how do we get the EU to talk sense?

I've always suspected the EU have been very lucky to have the NI/ROI issue to use in these negotiations. They are a real brick wall.

The whole financial side with London died a death ages ago despite it being the biggest worry for months after the referendum. The CU has ways around it, bilateral treaties and Free Trade Areas (FTA) are available too and successfully implemented including with the EU currently. Citizens rights are easy to resolve.

Trade is also a big one but we can deal with that if the will is there. We hear the impact is massive onto us but not so much on the EU but the truth is it's about certain countries being hammered within the EU and a load we barely trade with (which should be questioned in terms of how useful being in a union with them should be, shouldn't it? ). Germany takes a big hit as does ROI, Denmark another. It is downplayed as a nothing because overall in GDP it's much smaller but that doesn't negate the real threat to industry in those countries the same as ours will be hit...unless the other countries are going to put their hands in their pockets to compensate these countries in some way i.e. higher EU payments.

[Carnation]

Yes, that is an interesting fact about the supermarkets Terry.
Where I live we have a couple of corner shops family owned that sell local produce from just ordinary folk that grow in their allotments or even garden. It's lovely to see and even nicer to eat. I wonder why this can't be done countrywide. These shops deliver too and order things in that they don't have but you want.
We need to keep them going and more of because the likes of Tescos have filtered out many lines to replace with own brand and big sellers with still a high price tag. Because isn't that what Brexit is all about, a price tag?

[MyNameIsTerry]

So Canada scrapped our CETA rollover purely because of this? Cool, surely just drop this daft policy? Are they aware if they do this they drop tariffs for every member of the WTO? Wouldn't that obliterate UK firms? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9012421.html

[Carnation]

So, I'm alone on here in the 'no deal' option after all. :(

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, that is an interesting fact about the supermarkets Terry. Where I live we have a couple of corner shops family owned that sell local produce from just ordinary folk that grow in their allotments or even garden. It's lovely to see and even nicer to eat. I wonder why this can't be done countrywide. These shops deliver too and order things in that they don't have but you want. We need to keep them going and more of because the likes of Tescos have filtered out many lines to replace with own brand and big sellers with still a high price tag. Because isn't that what Brexit is all about, a price tag?

That's interesting. We've still got the odd corner shop but it's mostly newsagents that have clung on. Greengrocers are nearly extinct, still a few marker stalls though, and butchers are few. Butchers seem to get more regular trade though as the standard of local products stands out compared to a lot of the supermarket stuff. But I don't know about local growers like allotments. There are some great farm shops about though. I once stayed in a cottage with a farm just around the bend that had it's own small farm shop in a shed. The quality was amazing!

[mezzaninedoor]

We are the same locally. Butchers seem to be able to remain open by being so much better and offering a much better product than the Supermarkets. We have award winning butchers locally that are well supported by the local community even though they are 25-30% more expensive than the Supermarkets and on joints probably 50% more expensive.

Greengrocers are deffo a dying breed unless they are on the market, we have grocer market stalls but the High Street grocers locally are all dead and gone. There is the odd farm shop but they are few and far between. One of the best places to go locally for Veg is to bid on Veg boxes on a Thursday at the local Auction house that normaly has 20-25 boxes from local growers.

Newsagents cling on as you say but even these are dying out to some degree. A bit like Pubs there are Newsagents slowly but surely closing every year in our locality.

The insidousness is the rise of the Cornershop replacements in the Sainsbury Local and Tesco Metro brands where they have been opened up where you would once have had local shops with local knowledge but they have seen a way to kill off local business with their model. I often use the Tesco Metro near me and then I have to self flagelate for 10 minutes but the other choices are further afield nowadays.

[MyNameIsTerry]

The Spar shops have done a lot of damage. Also when Co Op gave up on large stores and switched to a local shop model. I think the newsagents will just die out as older generations pass on as younger people are much more used to reading online. It's long hours for very little too as a newsagents and beyond just staying as a corner shop what else is there for them?

[MyNameIsTerry]

So, I'm alone on here in the 'no deal' option after all. :(

I would take it over a bad deal as a springboard to a new one. Being locked into a one - sided deal with a Parliament too terrified to rock the boat is a possibility with our lot.

[MyNameIsTerry]

The BBC has put together a potted history of Brexit which is well worth reading: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49008826

I wonder if we’re entering a state of revision and reflection before the final exam…? Mrs May seems to think so when she speaks of ‘absolutist politics’…. Strangely, for me, I find myself agreeing with much of her swansong... Perhaps it'll all turn out ok in the end - truth and reconcilliation, anyone?

Martin Selmyr, the man the EU parties themselves were recently complaining was handed a top job because he was Junckers junior. The type of thing we want out from really

Timmermans, who claims we don't understand the other countries want to remain in at all costs yet the Euroscepticism polling doesn't quite reflect this honeyed view of the public in the EU. Countries such as Italy have recently elected Eurosceptic parties, including one far right party, and whilst they want to stay it feels more about wanting to change the EU or being unable to suffer the consequences of leaving (or both). That's hardly a ringing endorsement for the project.

I notice the NI/ROI border is seen as more about trade in the EU than it is helping ROI stop future terrorism, something I have believed for some time and only reinforced by how the backstop has been kicked down the road more than once. It is interesting that they say they are fine with our guarantees but it's Trump they worry about pushing his food to us and over their border but I find this strange considering that that food with have stamps all over it to show where it came from so we can easily be penalised (as can EU companies buying in cheaper meat, something that seems to have been ignored in this ).

So, the backstop is born from trade and terrorism is very much an afterthought. I wonder if the ROI public can see how little they mean to the EU just as all those German car workers saw their own industry bosses saying they would sack them all in favour of shipping off to a cheaper EU state

Interesting ROI feared being dragged out of the EU though. Surely the EU would prop them up with loans and they are only a recent net payer anyway...but perhaps it's not all milk & honey for ROI either with the EU Commission trying to clamp down on their low taxes that have been attracting big companies there at the cost of other EU states (potentially) and Macron is certainly not pleased with them over this.