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Thread: the EU & the UK

  1. #1431
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsTerry View Post
    I doubt this comes as a surprise but they really do need to sort this out:https://www.theguardian.com/society/...t-police-chief I bet May, Abbot, etc are some of the big targets in that 29%. Interesting what the civil service union are complaining about, both sides trying to scapegoat them for their own failures & frustrations of the process. Not good press for Adonis now he's trying to get public support.

    Totally agree Terry.
    However I still feel that more MP's should have been prosecuted as part of the expenses scandal.
    I'm not saying its okay but some of the anger towards MPs is because they have at times been untouchables.
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  2. #1432
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Brexit Day + 47

    Now we have Mrs May going for another ‘trial by torture’ in presenting her ‘deal’ yet again. If anyone’s lost count, this will be her fourth attempt. This sad, recurrent spectacle is set for the 3rd June. If by some weirdly unholy miracle she should succeed and get it through it will be truly a sign of fudgery – not a ‘finger of fudge’ but two fingers… to everyone.

    There’s been a load of blethering on about Nigel‘I’m-remainers-worst-nightmare’Farage not rising to Heidi Allen’s bait of a televised head-to-head argument on the merits of Brexit. She called him a “coward”. He called her “Who is she? (Perhaps he should have completed that epithet *“Who is she who must be obeyed?”). Mr Farage is an extremely well-versed political campaigner who, like every other commander throughout history, knows there’s no place in a successful strategy for fighting battles which don’t need to be fought.


    *From the novel She by H. Rider Haggard

  3. #1433
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Farage is gaining more traction, apologies for Express links not sure why these pop up on my android as I never read the paper: https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...d-rowlands/amp
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  4. #1434
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Pain View Post
    Brexit Day + 47

    Now we have Mrs May going for another ‘trial by torture’ in presenting her ‘deal’ yet again. If anyone’s lost count, this will be her fourth attempt. This sad, recurrent spectacle is set for the 3rd June. If by some weirdly unholy miracle she should succeed and get it through it will be truly a sign of fudgery – not a ‘finger of fudge’ but two fingers… to everyone.

    There’s been a load of blethering on about Nigel‘I’m-remainers-worst-nightmare’Farage not rising to Heidi Allen’s bait of a televised head-to-head argument on the merits of Brexit. She called him a “coward”. He called her “Who is she? (Perhaps he should have completed that epithet *“Who is she who must be obeyed?”). Mr Farage is an extremely well-versed political campaigner who, like every other commander throughout history, knows there’s no place in a successful strategy for fighting battles which don’t need to be fought.


    *From the novel She by H. Rider Haggard
    Isn't she splitting it to just the WA to see if MP's will at least vote that through?

    Question: If she backed down and allowed a Labour CU added to her deal would it gather enough support to squeak over the line? Starmer wants a confirmatory vote as well, something his boss Jezza said he doesn't want and they all seem to be arguing over whether is considered party policy or not.

    Back to the WA though:

    https://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showth...the-UK/page144

    EU laws are enshrined, as expected, but we can start departing from them which raises issues that are dealt with in May's trade relationship deal. Standards are not covered by the WA.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ion/19/enacted

    Section 19 doesn't stop divergence from EU agencies therefore it doesn't solve any of the flying, meds, law or anything else issues. Haulage permits are separate though die to separate Acts I believe.

    And how about this gem:

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...ion/18/enacted

    A customs arrangement must be laid down. This is again where May's deal come into play.

    So, can someone tell me how they can vote on the WA without May's deal? Those sections at least cause conflicts.
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  5. #1435
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Brexit Day + 48

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsTerry View Post
    Isn't she splitting it to just the WA to see if MP's will at least vote that through?

    ...So, can someone tell me how they can vote on the WA without May's deal?...
    Mrs May’s deal or WAB vote? The political pundits seem to be referring to them as one-and-the same, for the reasoning you use, Terry.

    Anyway, Robin Tilbrook’s (English Democrats) court case looks like it’s going ahead – the one in which he will press his claim that Britain actually left the EU at midnight on the 29th March this year. Government legal-eagles have pooh-poohed the basis of the claim, but then they also took exactly the same dismissive stance with Ms Miller’s anti-Brexit case… and look what happened there! However, despite the government’s ‘no merit to his claim’, Mr Tilbrook’s analysis of the situation appears to show it’s far from clear-cut. It all rests on Mrs May having ‘implied prerogative powers’ and using them to seek and achieve an extended Brexit deadline. How legal are these ‘implied powers’ and is the principle constitutional? Implications abound, especially when seen in the light of the Ms Miller action and further uses/abuses of such ‘implied power’.

    Notwithstanding the Tilbrook action, it all looks like Nigel ‘this-way-to-Brexit’ Farage is going to blitzkrieg (hmm! bad choice of expression…?) the Euro-elections. Just in case anyone thinks they might make a mistake in the excitement of the polling booth and vote for the wrong candidate by misplacing their ‘X’, the Brexit Party logo is really helpful…

    This way to Brexit.jpg (photo by Ben Terrett)
    Last edited by Pain; 17-05-19 at 09:21. Reason: Dateline and correction

  6. #1436
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Our membership of the EU gives a/c to the CEBB supports 3.1 million jobs directly and indirectly. Agricultural job stability is provided for 500000 workers in the farming industry by subsidies that the UK government may not replace/continue. Consumer Protection has been increased by the EU, some folks wanting Brexit want to peel back Consumer protection and workers rights. It offers greater protection from terrorists, paedophiles ( this week a huge european paedophile ring was bust by collaboration ) , people traffickers and cyber-crime. According to the CBI & SME's, 67% to 71% of Business have a positive impact from membership of the EU. Access to European energy, transport and digital service markets add £1000 per person to the UK economy. They provide a regulatory framework for the 88% ( ive seen different figures to that , 310bn out of 1200bn or some such) through joint EU trade deals which benefit the UK as a member, its not a negative point that you make. The USA is waiting for the UK to leave to plunder the UK as an export market. The EU promotes peaceful stability on the continent. More than 50% of our exports go to EU countries. Inward investments will be less certain if we leave the EU, some of these have already dried up. Now I agree that Brexit is not just an economic argument but the economic argument for leaving the EU for me does not stack up. There are bad things within the EU that we will lose influence over, what it did to Greece, how it deals with evolving African economies through trade.
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  7. #1437
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Brexit Day + 49

    Quote Originally Posted by mezzaninedoor View Post
    ...There are bad things within the EU that we will lose influence over, what it did to Greece, how it deals with evolving African economies through trade.
    Mezz... In over forty-five years of being in the EU, Britain never has had influence in the EU to make any great difference. The EU Commission, which dictates all EU policy, is not democratic and protects itself first and foremost.

    On RT last night, a poll of European folk gave a not wholly unexpected result that the EU would be ‘gone’ in twenty years – an opinion arch-Eurocrat Guy Verhofstadt seems to share. Which means the end of the EU will arrive at just around the time Brexit finally happens….

  8. #1438
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    So, May has finally been pushed into a corner about leaving. And now we face the spectre of a Tory leadership campaign and Boris is throwing his hat in

    Oh well, despite an agreement (hopefully) on the EU argument by then it will stop everything again for a bit and kick it all down the road as anything that needs to be decided will be covered over by all the grandstanding.
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  9. #1439
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by mezzaninedoor View Post
    Our membership of the EU gives a/c to the CEBB supports 3.1 million jobs directly and indirectly. Agricultural job stability is provided for 500000 workers in the farming industry by subsidies that the UK government may not replace/continue. Consumer Protection has been increased by the EU, some folks wanting Brexit want to peel back Consumer protection and workers rights. It offers greater protection from terrorists, paedophiles ( this week a huge european paedophile ring was bust by collaboration ) , people traffickers and cyber-crime. According to the CBI & SME's, 67% to 71% of Business have a positive impact from membership of the EU. Access to European energy, transport and digital service markets add £1000 per person to the UK economy. They provide a regulatory framework for the 88% ( ive seen different figures to that , 310bn out of 1200bn or some such) through joint EU trade deals which benefit the UK as a member, its not a negative point that you make. The USA is waiting for the UK to leave to plunder the UK as an export market. The EU promotes peaceful stability on the continent. More than 50% of our exports go to EU countries. Inward investments will be less certain if we leave the EU, some of these have already dried up. Now I agree that Brexit is not just an economic argument but the economic argument for leaving the EU for me does not stack up. There are bad things within the EU that we will lose influence over, what it did to Greece, how it deals with evolving African economies through trade.
    If subsidies don't continue won't the farmers campaign to the government to introduce it?

    Some corporate types would always love to reduce standards. That includes Remain types too. When it comes to spending loads to satisfy regulations how many business types would sacrifice their profits if they really had too? Don't we need regulatory bodies and law simply because so many companies would flout it if we didn't? And yet they still do and get into trouble for it.

    Workers rights. The EU introduces a standard, which is good. But don't we have a higher standard of rights compared to other EU nations? So, how did that happen? We did it. Our labour movement. Why would they let it slide if we leave? What if is only slid to match the lower standards of certain other EU states? All perfectly legal in the EU, not legal in the UK though.

    Security goes well beyond EU borders. Don't we work with intelligence agencies worldwide? Is Five Eyes an EU project? So, if our intelligence services need to work together, they will. What stops them? The WA just says they have the right to stop working together, it doesn't stipulate they should or have to. Law enforcement would surely take the same approach? Doctors have long collaborated without all this so why can't these?

    How many joint EU trade deals can be grandfather in? How many are relevant to us? I've seen many countries in those trade deals we barely even trade with according to the ONS. There are question marks over some of the newer ones though which might be beneficial, which I admit I need to catch up on a bit, but Canada is unimportant to us in the EU deal.

    Inward investment. What investment? Is this the one where we send them a ton of money, we get a rebate as Thatcher agreed, and then people in the UK have to approach an EU body to ask for grants? And does that grant come out of EU money or the money we sent over to them? This argument is all about governing ourselves and I find it a strange one that this is really a plus of the EU. We already have government grants, we can do this on our own. And if our governments mismanage it we can voice our unhappiness at the voting booth. Why do we need an EU body to allocate our own funds to us? The issue of lack of the funding then becomes about whether our government is going what we want.

    The US. The EU were working on a trade deal with them, one that could open the door to NHS plundering under the form of TTIP. Even people in other European states were protesting against it. The question for us is going to be whether we really need a US trade deal or whether we are secure enough without them. What if we are financially stable enough not to be dependant on a US trade deal?

    The CBI numbers are hardly surprising considering business is what the EU model is about. But it's not just the EU, it's globalisation too. Business works this way now no matter which country you are in and no businessman is going to want to pay higher local fees for something he can cheaply import from another country. Just ask people where I live, it's what killed our pottery industry off as the companies just shipped off out of the UK and made everyone redundant. The same with our steel & coal industries. What if a trade deal removes tariffs, keeps our standards the same and prevents customs checks? Won't that be status quo for business?

    We need to remember that the government we have now is not their forever. If they start reducing workers rights why not vote in Labour? Isn't this the point of opposition? If both parties had similar polices then I could this being a serious concern but I just don't buy this slash & burn we are being sold.
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    For free Mindfulness resources, please see this thread I have created to compile many sources together http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=168689

  10. #1440
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    If Boris becomes PM will Brexit morph into Bo(d)Jit?

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