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Thread: the EU & the UK

  1. #1561
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Brexit Day +75

    Three questions:-

    What are the current agendas for the UK’s Parliamentary political parties regarding Brexit?

    If the UK ‘can’t possibly leave the EU by the 31st October 2019’, by what date can we leave?

    With the EU refusing any further negotiation on a Brexit deal and ‘No Deal’ in the process of being killed, how do we fully escape the jurisdiction of the EU as per the 2016 Referendum?

  2. #1562
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Pain View Post
    Brexit Day +75

    Three questions:-

    What are the current agendas for the UK’s Parliamentary political parties regarding Brexit?

    If the UK ‘can’t possibly leave the EU by the 31st October 2019’, by what date can we leave?

    With the EU refusing any further negotiation on a Brexit deal and ‘No Deal’ in the process of being killed, how do we fully escape the jurisdiction of the EU as per the 2016 Referendum?
    Tory = stay in power
    Labour = get in power
    Lib Dem = get in power

    You see where I'm going...

    I guess Tory policy will veer more to the right on Brexit as the candidates are largely No Deal types. The Labour party, well that's anyone's guess when there are so many divisions now not only between Corbyn & non Corbyn but also his right hand bench mates. The rest we know as they are more firmly committed. Other parties don't have to worry so much about balancing votes as they are just taking the scraps from the Tory & Labour table. The SNP are a separate matter but then many of their supporters may be Leave anyway, the true believers who don't want to swap Westminster for Brussels (the ones the SNP so rarely acknowledge exist).

    Parliament can pass laws to a) block No Deal, b) block proroguing, c) ensure their vote is assured, etc. What that also then need to do is tackle the EU because Westminster laws are meaningless in this respect. So, they will also need to force the government to seek a) extension or b) revocation. They can also force a new referendum but that still relies on EU extension.

    I see many saying revocation will be accepted at some point as nothing changes. I can't see that as the impact to democracy will be bad. Also, recent polling and voting has but an enormous monkey wrench in the media's "they've all changed their minds" narrative. The issue isn't going away and revocation will just keep Farage going.

    An in/out referendum could stop it. Not a Deal of No Deal style one as this allows for speculation about whether they are the same.

    I suspect it will be the EU that forces the crunch point and I have done for some time. Our lot will dither and squabble forever but the EU want our financial commitments paying and they will only wait so long, as well as waste money on a process that should be long over. But in the case of the UK remaining in I also expect the EU tightening up on any possibility of leaving and looking closely at our perks. They have been firm on preventing anyone else leaving and their direction of travel into more centralisation. States like ROI can help slow that down as constitutional issues require referendums whereas our lot can just decide between about 650 people and suck us further in for their own financial gain.

    Will the EU return to the table if a GE occurred? They might. They are saying they won't but that's more likely because they don't want to open that can of worms until they face it. But they won't be granting Corbyn his McGuffin CU as it has too many wider implications. It will be pick a CU or form a less controversial one but not one where we get says in how the EC negotiate trade deals as it would give us more rights than actual member states. Only an opt out would be possible, not a say at the table.

    ROI mentioned Corbyn and "a CU". I don't think ROI will have the push to force a McGuffin, they would have to be Germany or France to do that. The EU has indicated that border issue is more important in terms of preserving the SM rather than preventing terrorism. Will they give us everything to be benevolent if we won't bring in a policy to manage that border? No chance. ROI may learn it's place at that too table is not as important as they think. I'm really not sure how much your average Europeans gives a shit about Ireland just as so many of the UK didn't when they voted.

    The EU gave us until the end of the year originally so they might extend until then. But at some point the are going to pull that drawbridge up and say make up your mind or we will do it for you. Meanwhile our own MP's will be busy re-arranging those deck chairs while the water is getting higher
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  3. #1563
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Exactly right Pain. That's what I've been saying about Trump. A very flawed person. Like me, and you, and everyone reading this. It's part of the human condition. But he loves the USA and that's where it starts for me when considering a candidate. I don't believe his predecessor did.

  4. #1564
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Labour motion to legally block No Deal rejected:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp
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  5. #1565
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsTerry View Post
    Tory = stay in power
    Labour = get in power
    Lib Dem = get in power

    You see where I'm going...

    ....An in/out referendum could stop it. Not a Deal of No Deal style one as this allows for speculation about whether they are the same....
    ....Meanwhile our own MP's will be busy re-arranging those deck chairs while the water is getting higher
    Sad, isn’t it? The current three main parties’ Brexit agendas only extend as far as to whether they can use any of it to keep or grab power. You know what, collectively they’re not interested in the spirit of Brexit at all!

    I should have said ‘again’ when referring to the Parliamentary killing of ‘No Deal’. I think a bill should be proposed banning the hunting down and wanton destruction by MPs of the endangered but resilient ‘No Deal’.

    Tally-ho! There it goes – kill the beast! It’s hiding behind Boris’s bulky framework!

    Did I imagine it or was there recent mention of Leo Varadkar saying some in RoI would wish to throw in their lot with the UK rather than stick with the EU? That’d be a turn up for the books if it grew legs and started running.

  6. #1566
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsTerry View Post
    Labour motion to legally block No Deal rejected:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=spartanntp
    While I was jotting down my last post, that plucky little devil No Deal escaped to fight another day!

  7. #1567
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Pain View Post
    Sad, isn’t it? The current three main parties’ Brexit agendas only extend as far as to whether they can use any of it to keep or grab power. You know what, collectively they’re not interested in the spirit of Brexit at all!

    I should have said ‘again’ when referring to the Parliamentary killing of ‘No Deal’. I think a bill should be proposed banning the hunting down and wanton destruction by MPs of the endangered but resilient ‘No Deal’.

    Tally-ho! There it goes – kill the beast! It’s hiding behind Boris’s bulky framework!

    Did I imagine it or was there recent mention of Leo Varadkar saying some in RoI would wish to throw in their lot with the UK rather than stick with the EU? That’d be a turn up for the books if it grew legs and started running.
    No matter what the issue we can always count on political parties, and MP's, to be self serving. For instance, Boris and his tax cut which seems like a very unpopular thing to suggest (although it's more appealing to the Tory membership to put him in place and doesn't constitute a manifesto pledge, if such a thing can be seen as anything other than a suggestion even when it is ) will be very appealing (in secret) to our very own MP's who will be better off for it...all while we pay out to see services cut. Remember the MP salaries fiasco? Not so virtuous then were they?

    So, you want to ban Brexhunting? You should know any such bans introduced are so watered down as to become pointless. If they follow the path of fox hunting bans then Brexhunting can still continue as long as everyone refers to it as "a training exercise" perhaps?

    ROI have their own Eurosceptic party emerging:

    https://talkradio.co.uk/news/irish-e...eu-19032830474

    Their message seems more akin to how NI republicans want to break from the UK. They want freedom.

    A couple of interesting points are also that they point towards old men (does this perhaps give us an idea this is an appeal to the young?) and how there is an intellectual on the books in the form of a professor!

    I don't know about what Varadkar but Irish trade is very tied into the UK so they will want to minimise any damage from Brexit. No Deal is going to harm them more than most because of the % of their GDP but I expect the EU can respond by throwing money at them to prop their economy up thus pushing them back out of recently gained net payer status into net recipient again. In other words back in hock.

    The same will apply to Scotland if they go independent.
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  8. #1568
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by Noivous View Post
    Exactly right Pain. That's what I've been saying about Trump. A very flawed person. Like me, and you, and everyone reading this. It's part of the human condition. But he loves the USA and that's where it starts for me when considering a candidate. I don't believe his predecessor did.
    Noivous... you're fairly and squarely hitting the hammer on the nail. Probably none of these folks are likeable, in that you mightn't want them as a mate. But it takes a certain type of human to lead a country - preferably one who believes in that country; not one who's forever fawning to be best friends with the rest of the world to the detriment of his/her own country's well-being. I think this is the definition of patriotism (which is now a banned trait in the eyes and ears of the PC militia).

  9. #1569
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Well, if you are looking for morals you would be looking in the wrong direction in looking up to politicians. power attracts the mirky.

    It's more important to me how they regard and act to others than what they get up to as consenting adults.

    Trump apparently likes getting urinated on by a group of people. He gets the (piss) taken out of him for it He's regarded a deviant. Cameron once shoved his pork sword in into a pigs head at university. What a deviant! Theresa May once ran through a farmer's wheat field in her naughty days. Not enough of a deviant.

    That's how it goes in the media. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I mean, who hasn't done stuff when they were young???

    Very few people on this earth are going to be saintly. And morality is subjective. Who decides what is mainstream? It's a big spectrum, a bell curve. But you will be standing in the voting queue, working, shopping, even at be around a family table at a get together, etc with all stripes of people and what they get up to behind closed doors.
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    For free Mindfulness resources, please see this thread I have created to compile many sources together http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=168689

  10. #1570
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    Re: the EU & the UK

    Quote Originally Posted by MyNameIsTerry View Post
    Well, if you are looking for morals you would be looking in the wrong direction in looking up to politicians.... I mean, who hasn't done stuff when they were young???
    Terry... I never did that stuff when I was young, with the exception of running through wheat fields (and on one occasion getting a warning shot fired over my head by an extremely irate farmer). But I am looking forward to getting away with those other weird things when I get old(er) by blaming it on dementia (every cloud has its silver lining)

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